A (2:48)

And that's for 2015, but that's okay.

B (2:52)

That was a great year. I had a great 2014. Love it.

A (2:57)

How are you?

B (2:59)

I am fantastic. I'm good. I'm ready to talk books. And thank you to you because we initially had a different episode planned for this week when we were like looking through and I was like, I gotta say, I'm having a. I'm riding the struggle bus, so can we please change to Chasing the five Star Reading Experience? And so you were happily, you were happy to pivot. And I'm glad we did that because I don't want to spoil anything, but I had a good time reading for this episode.

A (3:26)

Oh, good. I'm so glad. Yeah, I was happy to pivot too, because I think we were both feeling pretty slumpy and having a hard time reading for a couple of the things that we had planned. And we both needed this reset.

B (3:40)

We needed a reset, which happens, I think. And I am. I love looking at patterns and sort of how my reading life ebbs and flows. And I've discovered that every year there's two months where I read the worst. And worst is very good by most standards. But it's February and it's August. Oddly, those are my two worst reading months, I think because August is super busy with wrapping up summer things, ramping up to the new school year in February just because it's terrible outside. And I'm just over winter by that.

A (4:10)

Point and you're already kind of not burnt out, but the high of January is not there anymore and you're just like, but it's still winter and it's way after Christmas and it's after the new year and you're just ready for spring. It's a hard time of year.

B (4:25)

It is. And it's probably one of my more busy times of year too, professionally. So it's just like, oh, God. But anyway, it's interesting that you bring.

A (4:32)

Up the different months that you have a hard time reading because I was just chatting with a friend about, about this the other day and July and August are typically my worst reading months. And last year I think I was still kind of like riding the high of being on Booktok etc. We had just done. Well, I had done my first summer bonanza and I was so excited about those books that July ended up being a good reading month for me last year. But that was kind of out of the Norm. This year, July and August were once again just not great. And I was starting to feel so bummed about it. And then I was like, wait a minute. No, this is, this is kind of how it typically goes for me. Last year was a little bit of a fluke, but this is very typical for my reading life. So I need to give myself some grace.

B (5:21)

You do. And you sent me the best text the other day. You were like, as soon as fall happens, I come a lot. My reading life changes. I'm like, back at it. And I'm like, yes, I love that. Because it's. When you're doing something like this, you never want your partner to feel like they're in a reading slump. Because I'm like, you know, especially if you're, like, having a good reading experience. But we sort of have to stay on this treadmill of reading for our listeners and we're happy to do it. But today we are sharing our mutual latest read because we read our August community read for booktok Etc. So we're going to be chatting about the bewitching and I got a lot of thoughts. I have a lot of thoughts about that one. But before we hop into that, I'll start with My Loving Lately. My Loving Lately is a creator and her name is Michaela Thomas. Fit. Maybe you've seen her around Instagram because her videos are pretty viral and maybe it's just she gets pushed to me because I look at all of her videos. But Mikayla is a wife, a mom, a personal trainer and former teacher who loves fitness and loves helping others. And what I love specifically, I don't really, frankly care about any of that. I love her recipes. Her recipes are so easy to make. They're easy to make and they're relatively healthy. And what she, for me, excels in are her lunch recipes. Because I am just the worst lunch eater. I will just forget. I'll just whatever, Like, I'm just not good at it. She does a really good series called, like Busy Girl Lunch Prep. And she gives you the macros, however many calories and like, whatever you're looking at for protein. But she's also not using these esoteric, complicated ingredients that are hard to source or, you know, whatever. She uses canned chicken. I know, right? She uses canned chicken a lot. And obviously you don't have to. You could do a rotisserie or whatever. But I tried it. I like canned chicken. Sue me. Like, there's nothing wrong with it. It's very easy to get and it's just nice to have on hand. And anyway, I am like looking at some of her recipes now. She has this chicken dip that I've been eating often for lunch. She talks a little bit about this high protein pizza that she's had. And I have just really been loving her recipes. It's a lot of the same food, but it's also pretty simple. And again, that's what works for me is simple. You know, it's a tortilla, it's a laughing cow cheese, and then it's some version of like buffalo chicken or something, some sort of chicken. And I'm like, great. That I can do on rotation. These meals are also perfect. If you, like me, are going back to the office or back to the classroom, these are perfect to bring with you. That's what I love. So you can make them at home or you can make them ahead of time and then you got an easy meal for your job, you know. How novel. Anyway, I highly recommend her stuff. She also has a digital cookbook. She has a full website. I think she has a fitness coaching business as well. I don't look into any of that. I haven't yet at this point. I just like her recipes. And this loving lately is. I guess her name is Michaela Kim Thomas at Michaela Thomas Fit on Instagram. We will of course link to her in the notes here.

A (8:32)

Awesome recommendation. Yeah. She also has a website that has like links to all of her stuff. So we will link that as well. I'm looking at some of her recipes now and you're right, they're just very doable. Well, great recommendation. My loving lately is you're gonna laugh because I mentioned this to you the other day and was sending you pictures of my whipped tallow balm. Oh my God. And I personally get my whipped tallow balm from a local vendor at the farmer's market. And I definitely highly recommend doing that if you have that option. If you have like a co op or a, you know, local food market or farmer's market that you can attend to, grab this product. But what I love about this is, you know, the beef tallow thing was going for a while and still is as a product for your face for moisturizer. I have not been doing that, but I have been using this whipped tallow balm as a moisturizer for my hands and also as just a lotion in general. It is so soft. The whipped texture is so fun. I was telling Tina the other day, I just want to bathe in it and it literally looks like marshmallow. Fluff when you open it. And I also just love that this is a minimal ingredient product. It just has the pasture raised tallow. It has some kind of oil. Mine has organic extra virgin olive oil. I've also seen them made with jojoba oil and then just essential oils like lavender or peppermint or what scent you choose. You can also get them without scent or scentless, which I've also done before. Or if. Or if you have sensitive skin, you could do that again. I definitely recommend getting this locally if you have the option. I am going to link one that I have purchased before. That works great. If you don't have the option to do that or would rather purchase it online. But my loving lately is a locally made whipped tallow. Balmy.

B (10:42)

You're so holistic with your tallow bomb. Thank you. It was so funny.

A (10:48)

We were recording, not overall in life, but you know what happened.

B (10:51)

Yes. We were recording the other night and I was like, what are you playing with? And she's like, oh, it's my. It's my tallow bomb. I'm like, okay. Like, it looks like marshmallow fluff. And then like, we finished. You're like, I'm still really loving this. Like, you were really into it.

A (11:05)

Really into it.

B (11:06)

It's a good recommendation.

A (11:07)

I'm gonna put it on now.

B (11:09)

Put a little on now. Nice. Well, I'm glad to hear that you are still loving that.

A (11:15)

I've been literally rubbing it in my hands since we've been talking. Just haven't stopped.

B (11:20)

This feels nice. It just feels nice. Meanwhile, I haven't rubbed a lotion in my hand probably in 2025. I don't really. I don't like lotion. I don't like the feel of it greasy.

A (11:29)

You know, Dustin doesn't either.

B (11:31)

Really. I'm just like a. I don't know.

A (11:35)

He hates it.

B (11:36)

I did bring a lotion once before. I will use lotion once in a blue moon, but not. Not regularly.

A (11:42)

Yeah, I. I don't mind it. I like wearing lotion.

B (11:45)

You like it?

A (11:46)

To each their own. And plus, winter is coming, so winter is coming.

B (11:50)

Don't say that. It's too soon. It's too soon. Because we are just entering fall, and we are entering fall with what I would argue is one of the more perfect fall books I've read in a while. It is the Bewitching by Silvia Moreno Garcia. And this is our mutual latest read because, again, this is our community read for August. As of this recording, we have not yet chatted with our patrons. So I have no idea what folks think about it, but let me tell you what this book is about. It is about three women in three different eras who encountered danger and witchcraft. And sort of the hook for this is back then, when I was a young woman, there were still witches. And that is how Nana Alba always began. The stories she told her great granddaughter Minerva. Stories that have stayed with Minerva her whole life. And perhaps that's why Minerva has become a graduate student focused on the history of horror literature and is researching the life of Beatrice Tremblay, an obscure author of macabre tales. And as she is doing research for her thesis, she uncovers information that reveals Tremblay's most famous novel, the Vanishing, was inspired by a true story. Because decades earlier, Tremblay attended the same university where Minerva is, where Minerva is now studying, and became obsessed with her beautiful roommate who disappeared under mysterious circumstances and was never seen again. And as Minerva sort of does more and more research, she begins to sense that something unsettling is still going on on the campus. And this sort of is starting to mirror the stories that her, not her Nana, told her about her hood in 1900s Mexico. Now, here's the thing. I have to be honest. Reading that synopsis, I was like, I'm bored. I don't know what's going to happen. I thought it was going to feel clunky and just a little bit, like, dense. But I was very wrong. And I think I'm glad that we chose this because it proves that when you find an author that works, you can just trust them, right? Just trust that you're going to get a good story. Because Silvia Moreno Garcia has a lot of different books. I've actually only read one. I've only read Mexican Gothic, and I like this one even more than Mexican Gothic. I thought it was fantastic. And I'm a person that enjoyed Mexican Gothic. I know a lot of people didn't, but I think this one is a lot more accessible than the synopsis, as you think.

A (14:27)

I would totally agree.

B (14:28)

What I would say is you're really focused on Minerva in present day. Like, that is sort of what you're focusing on. It's actually not present day. I think it's 1998, but it feels pretty present. And the whole thing pretty much takes place at the university. Even though you are getting some flashbacks, it's done in a really skilled way. And what I love about this type of book is that it had these three time periods, but I didn't feel taken out of it at any Point, because I was very interested in all of them. For a minute there, I was less interested in the 1908 timeline, but then something would happen, and then I got sucked back in, like, oh, my God, this book. I actually really liked the structure, and I really liked how she had everything overlap in very subtle ways. How are you finding it?

A (15:21)

I would agree that the synopsis makes it sound a lot more convoluted than it is. Once you get into it, I feel like it is very immersive. And while you have to pay attention, it's not hard to follow. It's very easy to get lost in. And I think that this is a great segue into fall. And I think that it's also a great one to add to the campus novel canon because it's different. It's not like your typical campus novel, but it does still give you that campus feeling. Like you said, most of it takes place at this university. And I don't know, I just thought that it was the perfect fall book. And I also think historical fiction is a great genre to read in the fall, especially if you aren't, like, a mystery horror reader. And I love that this book had that historical element to it.

B (16:19)

That's exactly right. And something I was thinking of, too, when I was reading is that this will appeal to readers for a lot of different genres, because I could see horror lovers enjoying this. I could see fantasy lovers enjoying this, also historical fiction. And you're even getting a little bit of a mystery in here because you've got a missing person story and, like, what happened to her. So I loved it. You also are getting witchcraft. There's definitely witchcraft involved in this. And you're not sure who's doing it, where it's coming from, what's going on, is it really there? But you're sort of getting the vibe of witchiness, which I like. She incorporates a lot of folklore that felt very authentic. She incorporates chronic pain. She incorporates depression. One of the characters is, you know, kind of acknowledging that she often is depressed and, you know, talked about. There's a lot of feminist themes in this, too. They're talking about the roles of women in throughout history and how, yeah, it's changed, but, like, also has it changed that much. And I loved it. I really thought this was a fantastic novel. And best of all, I think it gets better. The end. The end is really, really good. And I love that. I love when a book that you're enjoying sticks the landing. I remember I did a lot. I did sort of a combo read audio And I'd go back and underline. And by the end I was like, forget the audio. I can't go fast enough listening. Like, I just need to know what's going to happen here. And I loved this reading experience. I highly recommend this book. I'm so pleased and I'm excited to chat with our patrons about it. Do you have any final thoughts to wrap with?

A (17:56)

No, I have no other final thoughts to wrap with. I agree that she tied everything together beautifully in the end and I co signed the recommendation. I'm also excited to chat with everyone about it.

B (18:05)

Yeah, I want to see what people think. I don't know. And I just feel like this book's synopsis is. And I don't know how I would rewrite it because it's accurate for sure. I just. I think I was charmed by some of the characters I really liked. I will tell you, my favorite time period was actually the 1934 time period where you're figuring out like the person that goes missing and you know she's missing forever because you're now in 1998. She hasn't come back. I like that because you're sort of leading up to this woman's disappearance. And I was like, no, I don't want you to go like, I want to know what's going to happen to you. Right. That was actually my favorite. And there's also some characters that transcend time period. Specifically this woman named Virginia, who. I liked her. I got to say, I did. I did. I liked her. She's kind of this fun, tough older woman with a very strong point of view.

A (18:59)

Yeah, there were some great characters in this book. I will mention one more thing actually, and you can tell me if you agree. I just have this feeling kind of mostly based on. On vibes, somewhat on subject matter too. But if you want to get back to that feeling that you had when you read Discovery of Witches by Deborah Harkness, like, I think this is a great comparison. Do you agree?

B (19:20)

100%. Great comp. And I did not make that. I did not make that connection. And you're right. And I'm sort of picky with witch books. Right. Or witchy books in. In general.

A (19:31)

And maybe it is because they were both like had that 90s timeline too.

B (19:35)

Maybe that's part of it.

A (19:37)

Yes.

B (19:37)

A kind of not really a romance.

A (19:39)

But like also love stories in there.

B (19:41)

There's romantic elements to it. There's love stories in here. Exactly. I totally get. There's also a lot of different time periods and a Lot of mystery Generations. There's a mystery. I love that comparison. Great addition. So, yeah, read the bewitching, guys. It's really worth it.

A (19:58)

Yay. I'm glad that we read that one.

B (20:00)

Me too. Now, for this episode, I actually think for me this is going to be a great episode for folks to listen to because all of the books that I'm bringing, including the bewitching, I highly recommend. And I am just delighted that I was actually able to get books that are giving close to the five star reading experience, if not fully the five star reading experience. And I know we did an episode a while ago where we were looking for the five plus star reading experience. And Hannah, I want to talk to you about this. Do you ever have five star plus books or is five stars enough for you?

A (20:37)

I mean, five star is enough for me. When I think about what a five plus star would mean for me, I think for me it would mean if I am having a hard time letting go of a book afterward, if I'm continuing to Google, search, look up things like on Pinterest or TikTok or Instagram, or if I really want to hear other people's reviews on YouTube, if I just have a really hard time letting a book go and can't stop thinking about it to the point where it's making me struggle to pick up another book, that to me is that five plus star feeling. I am not gonna lie. I felt that way after the Night in the Moth by Rachel Gillig, which is not the best book I've read this year in terms of like, objective quality. But for what it did for me as a reader and making me obsess in that same way that I did, it's like that nostalgic feeling too, right? Like when you obsess over something like you would when you were a teenager or, or something like that. I love that feeling. So that to me is five plus stars.

B (21:41)

And that's what I always say. I know it's a five plus star. When I'm like, this book makes me happy to be a reader. That's when I know. And similar to you, it's one of those books that I, for me, find myself recommending a lot, often over and over again. One of the books I'm bringing today, I've already done a solo TikTok about it. I've already had people tag me that they picked it up on my recommendation. So yeah, I'm. This is one of those books, man. This is one of those books. And have you seen that? Going around on social media, the trend of. These are my six star books, my five stars, four stars, three star, two star, one star. Like where people swipe through.

A (22:16)

Oh, no, I haven't seen that.

B (22:17)

Really?

A (22:18)

No. Well, I also have not been on TikTok much lately.

B (22:20)

Yeah, No, I don't think it's social media in general. Social media, yeah. It's like. And, and I know some people are like very strongly advocating against six stars because they find that it skews the system. And I totally understand. I hear what they're saying. Right. I hear that with my ears and think, yeah, I understand what you mean. There's no such thing as a six star. It's out of five. Right. But then a piece to me is like, but I could still rate a book five stars. And I need to have room for those few books that are all time faves, all time favorites. And how do we designate that? Because I don't want to give a book 4.75 if it's really a five star book. Yeah, that feels petty. But also I want to be able to differentiate just. It's like an A plus, right?

A (23:07)

Yeah.

B (23:08)

Versus an A because I think.

A (23:10)

Or extra credit. Or extra credit.

B (23:12)

A bonus. A little bonus sprinkle.

A (23:14)

You got a 102% on your, on your test because you answered the extra credit questions also.

B (23:19)

Exactly right. And that is different. So so far this year it says on Storygraph that I have read 102 books, which is correct. And there are technically 15 books I've rated five star stars. But for me, two of those were Hunger Games books, rereads, not the new one. So I'm not going to include those in my sort of overall five star. And I was actually pretty surprised because I feel like that's low for me. So that would make it what, 13 out of 102 books I rated five stars. That's only 13%. That's. Yeah, that's not a lot. So I have to go back and double check and make sure that I've done my due diligence, but I've rated them fairly correct. Or that I've rated them period. Because I feel like there's some in here. I'm like, you know what? I think I've missed a few. Right. I forget my record keeping is not spotless as you might imagine. Do you have a sense as to how many five star reads you've read so far this year?

A (24:16)

The exact same as you. Funny enough. Now I haven't read as many books as you, so my average is like an 18% average for a five star read which I am actually really happy with. And so I've read almost 70 books this year and yeah, I have exactly 13 five star reads.

B (24:35)

I love that. Look at us go. Okay, so maybe that is pretty. Maybe that cadence is pretty typical. I have a hard time in story graph. I have to be honest with you because all I want to see. Ah, there it is. Okay. I just want to see the books I've read so far this year. And that goes under read recently. Okay. Yes, got it. Okay.

A (24:55)

And then you can select I think specific dates too in there.

B (24:58)

You can. Because this says all time and you can go to 2025. It's just. Yeah. So according to this. See, I knew it. I actually knew it. I am off. I'm going to have Jonathan, my, our lovely editor husband put on the screen here the actual number of five star reads. Because I'm looking right now and I'm like, I rated that five stars and it's not showing up. So I have to do the math and figure out what my real number is. But at any rate, you get the idea.

A (25:24)

Sure. It's probably approximately between, you know, 15 and 20% of your reading.

B (25:28)

I think the percentage is. Yeah, gonna be pretty close. But at any rate, what else should we things up?

A (25:35)

We'll spruce things up before the end of the year because.

B (25:38)

Oh absolutely.

A (25:40)

As we do. You'll get some more definitive numbers as we, as we close out the year. In Q4.

B (25:47)

In Q4. Oh my goodness. I am the worst with this sort of record. Well, I suppose I'm not the worst but it's just not something that comes intuitively. So it takes me some time to really get things in order.

A (25:59)

Ok. Tina, I have a question for you. You were mentioning that trend of people talking about their six star books, their five star books.

B (26:09)

Yes.

A (26:10)

Do you, when you receive those posts, when they get into your algorithm, when you look at them, do you feel that you are getting people whose tastes align with yours? Do you feel motivated by their picks or do you. I don't know. I'm curious how you find those recommendations and if you're getting ones that specifically align to your taste.

B (26:34)

Yeah, you know, I don't, I don't think so. I think it's just, you know, it's fun. Those posts are kind of fun to go through, but I also am somebody that I know this is not the right way to do it, but I internalize. So if I see that you've rated one of my five star reads As a two star, I'm going to. Unlike your post. I am. Because I'm petty. I don't, I don't con. I don't condone this behavior. I think you're wrong and not. And I'm half kidding. Like, if it's one, if it's a collection of books, right. I probably wouldn't unlike it. But if I see somebody review a book, like, if I see them review the bewitching and they're like, this book was garbage and like it's a two star and I initially like it, I'll unlike it. I will. Because I'm like, I disagree. I want you to know that.

A (27:20)

Will you automatically not take any recommendations from them? Them?

B (27:23)

No, of course not.

A (27:24)

Oh, okay. I was gonna say because I. No, I. I tend to average a little bit. Like when I look at that stuff, I'll be like, oh, okay. Well, that was a wrong opinion that they had about this book that I liked. But if I see that they also had some opinions that we agree on, then I will maybe look at more of an average, I guess, of like, do our tastes more aligned or do they more not align? But, but I was just curious because it can be tricky finding recommendations on the Internet, especially with these trends, and I feel like I ebb and flow with my ability to be able to get recommendations online. Sometimes I have really, really good luck and sometimes I'm like, I feel like everybody is fake and I can't trust anyone.

B (28:12)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, nothing is real. Yes, I understand that though. I, I get it. And you know, I have been seeing some discourse on threads, which. Threads is where I go if I want to have a messy conversation. Typically I don't chime in often, you know, but I do like getting the tea. I will be honest with you. I like seeing what, what the streets are saying about this, that or the other thing. And I see on threads people talking about how they can't trust recommendations on X, Y or Z. I think lately the most recent thing I saw is that people are not trusting recommendations for book talk especially. And that I saw a bunch of people saying, yeah, that's because they skim the books and they just, you know, they're just like doing it for clicks and whatnot. And I have such a hard time in my worldview. I'm like, they don't skim. Why would they do that? To what end? And then I'm like, no, people, really? I'm sure they are. I'm sure there are people that are Doing that for whatever reason couldn't be me. And you could always trust that Hannah and I are, I mean, reading these fully reading these books as though I'm going to be graded later on them. So we're not because we love reading. It's because we love reading. It's kind of fascinating, right, to see how people rate and review. And I guess there's not a wrong way to do it, but I do think you know why I think there.

A (29:38)

Could be a wrong way.

B (29:39)

There's some things that are wrong. Let's be honest. There's ways that are wrong.

A (29:43)

This is my opinion, but just going to throw it out there.

B (29:46)

Ways that are wrong. Yeah.

A (29:47)

Correct.

B (29:49)

I also.

A (29:50)

That was a fun. That was a fun little going back.

B (29:53)

It's fun little deep dive. Yeah. And I was thinking too about unliking people's posts. Not on my friends or people that I recognize. Like if I see yours, like, I know it's you and I know your taste and I want to support your stuff. It's more like if it's a random person that I don't know very well, I'll. I really will. Unlike. Because I think that's. I don't want them to know they're wrong to think that I agree with you. You know what I'm saying?

A (30:17)

Yeah.

B (30:18)

Anyway, I suppose it's neither here nor.

A (30:20)

There, but I think that that makes sense. And you know, as you and I are both want to do, we might overthink that a little bit. But I completely understand where you're coming from and the reasoning behind why you do it. So that totally makes sense.

B (30:36)

Do we overthink things? Absolutely. But this is also 10 out of 10 times, right? It's our job to have these deep dives. And the whole time I dropped my young off today and the whole time I was driving over, I truly was like sitting there going through in my head, I'm like, what is a five star read? Is there such a thing as a six star read? No, I need nuance. And like it really took me down this. It entertained me during the drive, so that's something. But at any rate, we are curious as always to know what you all think about five star reads. Is there such thing as a six star read or a five plus star read? And if so, how often do you use it? Because there's this thing too. If you rate everything five stars, it starts to mean nothing.

A (31:16)

Yeah, exactly. 100%.

B (31:19)

All right. So overall though, I'm wondering how this experience went for you. Were you able to Quickly pick five star reads. Did you have to dnf?

A (31:28)

Well, I was able to pick my books quickly, which was nice. And I feel like that can so often be what hinders me from moving forward and from reading because there's always that, do I want to do a new release? Do I want to focus on, you know, a book that's been on my TBR for forever or a book recommended by a friend? And so this definitely made it easier for me to pick books because I think I have a pretty good idea of books that I think that I'm going to give five stars. And so I was able to kind of look at my shelves and look at my options or, you know, books that have been on my list for a really long time and choose in terms of my actual experience. I had one winner and one that I am devastatingly disappointed by. But I didn't even hate it. I didn't hate it at all. I am just. I feel like something's wrong with me and I'm kind of nervous to talk about it. So how was your experience?

B (32:22)

Nothing is wrong with you. Right. I actually have a similar. I'm feeling a little bit exposed by how I'm going to write one of these books and I'll explain when I get there, but thank you for sharing how you got to this. I got incredibly lucky with one of mine because it's a brand new book. It hadn't even been released when I grabbed it. So I literally went off one person's recommendation and I was like, I'm gonna pick this up. And immediately, yes, I text, I messaged you and I was like, hannah, I got it in one, baby. Which I'm so happy with because I was like, I just thought for sure this was gonna take me forever to land on one. The other one is the one that I'm feeling like it's. It wasn't a five plus star and I feel like it should be and people are going to disagree with me, but that is a part of the fun. I will. All right, so I will quit teasing and tell you about my first read because my first read was my five star plus reading experience. I got it in one and it's Dominion by Addie Kitchens. Listen to me now, if you take any of my recommendations from this year, let it be Dominion, because this book is that girl. It is incredible. It is another book where you're going to look at the synopsis and think, I don't know if this one's for me. It's for you. If you like family stories. And if you like messy, complicated, tragic stories, this one's going to be for you. It is about Reverend Sabre Winfrey, who is the shepherd of the Seven Seals Baptist Church. He believes in God, his own privilege and enterprise. He's got a barber shop in town in addition to being the know church, the head of the church, he's got a radio station and he has an iron hand on every aspect of Dominion, Mississippi. He and his wife Priscilla have five boys and the youngest is named Emmanuel and he goes by Wonder Boy because no one sings better, no one runs as fast or turns as many heads. That's a lot of pressure for Wonder Boy, as you might imagine. And then something pretty surprising happens and Wonder Boy finds himself confronted by question he's never imagined. And his response will shockwaves through the entire community. This book is told from the point of view of the women in their community and illustrates how we enable the everyday violence and casual sins of the patriarchy. Okay, the reason I grabbed this book is because melanated reader who is a creator online that I followed for many years had this TikTok and she just goes, addie Kitchens, come to the front. We need to have a conversation about Dominion. And she just had this really funny video about why she wanted to talk to the author because she had to have words with her. She wanted to have words with her. And I was like, okay, great, say more because I didn't know anything about this book. So later that day I got an email from macmillan Audio, so thank you to them. And they were basically like, hey, blah blah, blah, whatever. They said, they're like, here's the audio for Dominion. And I thought, thought this is divine intervention because I'm about to look for a five star read. I turned it on and immediately knew that this is going to be my five plus star book. So what I love about this is that it's very unexpected. You might think, hearing what I talked about, that it would be a little slow and a little bit proper. Priscilla, the first lady, is so acerbic. She is so catty and funny and witty and just, oh my God, the things that came out of her mouth. I mean, I cackled, I laughed out loud at some of her takes. There's another character named diamond who is a young girl who is sort of from the other side of the tracks, if you will. Not, not by any of her own fault. She, I think grew up in foster care and she is Wonder Boy's girlfriend. And Priscilla is not happy with this because she doesn't think diamond is good enough for Wonder Boy, but all diamond wants to do is to please him. What I think this book did so well is sort of pulled back the curtains of the community and showed how toxic the patriarchy can be and the fallout from that. This book is funny. This book is eye opening, it's immersive, it's short, it packs such a punch. It's only 240 pages, but I will not soon forget it. I really want to go back and finish or go back and get a print copy of this. This is out now. It came out on August 19th and so far it only has 98 reviews. So we're going to need that to bump up a little bit, hopefully, because this book is worth every accolade it gets. The characters, I will say, are not perfect. Okay, we know that. Right? And, and, and I love that I don't need a perfect character. I did. I care about them. Yes, absolutely. I cared about them. And what's great about this is I think I was reading this expecting one thing and it shifted into something else. And I can't really say much more than that without giving too much away, but I just think this is such a witty story. This is also a debut and it's absolutely going to be one of my very favorite books for 2025. So I. I highly recommend it. In case you didn't notice, this book is Dominion by Addie Kitchens.

A (37:44)

Well, thank you for bringing us a book that sounds super good and one that clearly needs more readers.

B (37:51)

I know, I know it just came out, but I'm like, okay, we're going to need to get some more folks reading this one here.

A (37:56)

Absolutely. I also love Melanated Reader. She's a great follow, so definitely recommend giving her a follow as well. My first book that I'm going to bring for this is the one that worked really well for me and also I'm going to bring it next because I think it pairs really well with Dominion. And that is in the Family Way by Lainey Katz Becker. This was on my Summer Bonanza, one that I was looking forward to reading. And I chose this book for this episode because I really wanted to test my summer reading list and read one of the more rogue choices that I put in my Summer bonanza to really test my reading tastes. And this is a story about a group of suburban women who are helping one another navigate their personal challenges, marriages and pregnancies, both wanted and unwanted pregnancies. It is 1965America and women cannot have their own bank accounts. They can't have their own credit cards and they can't sign their own leases. And also divorce is very scandalous and difficult and abortion is illegal. Every Tuesday, this group of girlfriends meet for a canasta game, which is where these women share advice and confidences with one another. Another after prim and proper. Lily Berg, a doctor's wife, discovers that she is pregnant with her second child. She follows her friend Becca's suggestion and takes in Betsy, a pregnant teen from a local home for unwed mothers. Betsy is to live with the Bergs for six months. She's going to help with babysitting and housekeeping. Then she's going to have her own baby and then agree to never contact the family again. Apparently this is something that happened in this time period in America, which I. I didn't know about. But as Betsy lives with the Bergs and tensions rise among this group of women, things quickly get complicated as they are want to do. I think I did really well with this one. I thought this was a really good book. And this made me trust myself a little bit more too, because I. I read this one after I read my first choice and I was really like, tangled in my feelings and. And when I read this one, I was like, okay, I think I can trust myself. I do know some things that work well for me. And I really loved all of the perspectives that we were following in the story. I loved that we were dealing with so many different aspects of parenting and marriage and family planning, fertility, women's rights, and the conversation about choice in a way that was really holistic and real and raw. We had different women dealing with a variety of issues within their marriages. We had a teenager that we were following the perspective of her as well. And obviously her experience with pregnancy was way different than these other suburban housewives. I had no idea that these homes existed and that this was a part of American history. I was very unfamiliar with the idea of unwed mothers coming to live with families and have homes that they lived in. And I will say the author's note talks a little bit more about the realities of this concept and how this looked, and I really appreciated that. I think that reading the author's note is essential to reading this book. And it was a key piece in not only my enjoyment, but the appreciation of the story that she told. I also didn't know that in the family way is a euphemism for getting pregnant. And that's how. How this mother was explaining to Betsy, the teenager, her pregnancy because she's like, very lost in this pregnancy journey, she like barely knows how she got herself into this situation. And so as Lily and Becca are trying to explain this to Betsy, they were like, you know, you found yourself in the family way. And I didn't know. I wasn't familiar with this euphemism. And I thought that that was a really sweet tie in to the title. Title. I'll also say this is a very Midwestern book, which I always love to see. We had name drops like Akron, Columbus, Milwaukee, and even Kalamazoo, which you hear Michigan referenced a lot, but rarely Kalamazoo. And I loved having that reference because that is where I am from. Also, while this book does deal with obviously a lot of negativities of the patriarchy, there was a moment with one of the characters and her dad that made me tear up. And he just talked to her about when women are experiencing these really severe circumstances and they just need another man in their life to believe them. And he was just talking to her about that. And it was a really nice kind of hopeful moment in a story that really does deal a lot with the dark side of the patriarchy. And I really appreciated that. So I am not sure yet if I'm going to give this a full five star, but right now it's leaning at like 4.5. But we will see how it sits with me the longer I am away from my reading experience. But I really liked this one. It also doesn't have a ton of recommendations. I haven't seen anybody else talk about this book. It just released in June. So I think if you like family stories and feminist books about a group of women navigating life, then you should read this. And that is in the Family Way by Lanie Katz Becker.

B (43:28)

Yeah, I was going to say what a great pick because this one only has 206 reviews so far on Goodreads.

A (43:35)

Look at us go.

B (43:36)

4.24. I know. I love.

A (43:38)

I agree with the high rating.

B (43:40)

Yeah. I also really like this cover.

A (43:43)

I do too.

B (43:44)

Seen anything quite.

A (43:45)

I really like the COVID too. It's kind of minimalist, but it's very pretty and I think it fits the story really well also.

B (43:51)

Now my next one is most definitely not an under the radar pick because. Because my next one is James Baldwin's if Beale Street Could Talk. Heck yeah. I was so happy to read this. The reason I grabbed it or how I decided on it, I had read Dominion. I was like, oh, that was so good. How am I going to follow that up? And I was like, let's See if I have anything on my shelves that might do it for me. And for some, for one, one reason or another, I was like, wait a minute, this. Let's try it, right? And I immediately fell in love with this book. It is slim. So if Beale Street Could Talk is just under 200 pages. And I am quite sure that most people have heard of this if they haven't read it themselves. But this is told. This is a story told through the eyes of Tish, a 19 year old girl in love with Fonny, a young sculptor who is the father of her child. And Tish and Fani have pledged to get married. But Fani is falsely accused of a terrible crime, gets imprisoned, their families set out to clear his name. And as they face uncertain futures, the young lovers experience a kaleidoscope of emotions, affection, despair and hope. And in a love story that evokes the blues, where passion and sadness are inevitably intertwined, Baldwin has created two characters so alive and so profoundly realized that they are unforgettably ingrained in the American psyche. This was published in 1974 and I thought it was absolutely fantastic, this book. What's so interesting to me about it is that this book is however many years old. I'm not a math. Not a math girl, right? But it was published in 1974 and yet many of the themes are still so relevant today, specifically how black men are treated in America and the criminal justice system in general and how broken and flawed it is. But what I loved about this specifically is that it is so. And I shouldn't be surprised, but it was so skillfully done. This is not heavy handed in the slightest. It is just about Tish and Fani who are not these extraordinary A plus people. They're two regular kids basically who fell in love and got caught up in this impossible situation. You've got themes of policing, themes of racism, and you know, it's really a simple story though at the end of the day, because you're also following these two. Tish is pregnant and she tells him that she is pregnant while he's already in jail. So from the very beginning they're talking to each other through a pane of glass. And I just love that Baldwin was able to really give us enough of this couple to understand their love for each other, to understand their family, who they are, where they live in New York in, and you know, sort of gave us that while still having them not be able to be together in the present. This book immediately reminded me of one of my all time favorite Books, which is An American Marriage by Tayari Jones. And I'm like, how have I not read this yet? Because that book is one of my favorites. And this one, you can absolutely see the influence. This writing is poetic. It's. It flows incredibly well and like you'll just be reading along. And I did a combo read for this primarily I did the audio and I was just reading along and I found myself having to stop and be like, wait a minute, gotta go back and underline that. Because it's just, it flows, it's like water. His prose, it's just really, really good and very, very readable. Also want to plug the audiobook because Bonnie Turpin narrates it and you know, she's one of my favorites. And she just did a fant. Fantastic story. This is a story about fear and hope and despair and family. And you know what you would do if you knew that the person you love was innocent and yet you don't have the means, ability and resources to immediately get it turned over. Because you know in your heart of hearts, like they were with me, they didn't do the thing that they're being accused of. And that is not good enough. Right. They're speaking still in jail. And there were some scenes in here that made me laugh out loud. There were some scenes that made me clap for the characters and what they said to one another and what they didn't say to one another. The only thing is, for me, I could have used an epilogue. And that's just how I feel as a reader. So the reason I said I feel like I'm going to be judged is because it's not a quite. It's not quite a five star read from me or it wasn't a five star reading experience. I would say four and a half. Because I was like, I want more, I want more, give me more. But that's not what Baldwin wanted to do. And I could see how that or how and why. This one is loved by folks that love to dissect and really engage with the text. But I loved reading it. Very happy I grabbed it. That is if Beale Street Could Talk by James Baldwin.

A (49:07)

I love how in sync we are today because the next one I am bringing is also a very beloved book, although I definitely not in the same era or the same genre at all. And the one that I had very complicated feelings about, although I think I had more complicated feelings about this one than you did with if Beale Street Could Talk. But I am bringing Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir and gosh I feel like I am the last person on the planet to read this book. It is so loved and so many of my friends have been trying to get me to read this for. For so long. And this story, for those who haven't read it yet, is about Ryland Grace, who is the sole survivor on a desperate last chance mission. And if he fails, humanity and Earth itself will perish at the beginning of this novel. He doesn't know that, however, because where we jump in at the beginning of the story, he can't even remember his own name, let alone the nature of this assignment and how to complete complete it. He is just remembering fragments of who he is. All he knows right now is that he has been asleep for a very, very long time and he has just been awakened to find himself millions of miles from home with nothing but two corpses for company. His crewmates are dead, and he is grappling with this grief that he doesn't quite understand because his memories are not there. But he knows that these two people that he was probably pretty close with are no longer with him. Him. And while his memories are kind of fuzzily returning, Ryland realizes that an impossible task now confronts him. He's hurtling through space on this tiny ship and it's up to him to puzzle out an impossible scientific mystery and conquer an extinction level threat to the human species. And with the clock ticking down and the nearest human being light years away, he has to do this all on his own. At least. Least that's what he thinks. So, yeah, this review is tough because I do think that this is a really good book, kind of similar to what you said. I see why so many people love this story. It's exciting and it's unique and I know that so many people have this book as their favorite book of all time and I totally see why. I think that my expectations were really got in the way for me here and how people talked about this book. People say, don't let science get in the way of reading this. You're going to fall in love with Ryland. This is really a story about him and his journey and you'll get over the science part of the story, but I never did. It was very, very, very science heavy. And this made me feel very disconnected from Ryland and the story and his character. And I got really BO down by all of the science conversations. I love science. I think science is interesting. But this felt like it was more of a book about possible physics and science theories and outer space than it was about Ryland. And his character in his journey. That is how this book read to me personally. I am a little afraid to say all of this because there were people that literally, personally reached out to me when they saw that this was my current read and said, do not tell us if you have anything bad to say about this book. So what I will say is that I did enjoy this. I didn't hate it. I think this was a solid 3.5 star read for me. But this made me feel even weirder because I feel like people either really don't like this book or they really love it. And so it felt kind of weird to be on the precipice of potentially really liking it, but definitely not hating it. And it makes me feel like I'm. I missed something with this. I really thought that I was going to absolutely fall head over heels for this book. There were definitely some fun plot developments that did happen. It's a surprising read. It has twists and turns. I could see this being very exciting. A book that really sweeps people up. It just didn't work the same kind of magic on me that it seemed to do for so many others. I'm really bummed because this was the book that made me feel like I don't know myself as a reader, but maybe I just need to look at this as a season of my life. I am trying to figure out what's working for me right now, and that might look different than it did six months ago, and it might look different a year from now, and that's okay. I am so sorry for whoever was hurt in the writing of this review, but they're definitely my thoughts and it's my job to be honest about them. So that was Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir.

B (53:53)

I'm gonna unlike your post on Instagram when I see it. I knew it.

A (53:58)

I knew it.

B (53:59)

I'm gonna unlike that one.

A (54:01)

Wait, have you read this, Tina?

B (54:02)

Of course I read it. And I. I didn't know you read this. I loved Project Hail Mary. I think it's fabulous. I think. Question. You did the audio, right?

A (54:12)

I did do the audio because that's what everybody said to do.

B (54:14)

Yeah. And they're right. You should do the audio for this. Yeah, you should.

A (54:18)

I enjoyed the audiobook.

B (54:19)

I love science books. I love outer space. I like being in space. I. I could totally see if the science pieces. Not that you don't like them because you do like science, but. But it's just there. They're there. And I like that thought experiment. So it totally worked for me. And I thought it was surprising and I hear a lot of the good things you said. I am very surprised you didn't love this. I would have bet money on the fact you gave it five stars.

A (54:41)

So I'm surprised that I didn't either. And I don't want to discredit my opinion, but I do think that reading this in such a slump that I was in and it took me a long time to read this. Like I kept picking this up and putting it back down. Picking it up and putting it back down. And so I would be open to retrying this book at some point and just reading all the way through it. I don't think I have to and I do stand by my opinions that I have. I'm not like discrediting my own experience, but it is one that I would be open to coming back to maybe a few years from now and maybe doing it in a more relaxed state and seeing if I feel any differently about it.

B (55:23)

I think too pressure can be a lot. Not pressure but like. Right. Expectations. Expectations for that one are going to.

A (55:29)

Be a six star book.

B (55:30)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think when you go into that like it's almost better to be like, I don't know, I think like, you know, having lower.

A (55:37)

I might like it, I might not.

B (55:39)

Right. Right. Very interesting. I wanted to update you guys. I know everyone's been waiting with bated breath. I've actually rated five books. I'm sorry, I've actually rated 16 books. Five stars. So wanted to close the loop there. I know people have just been worried to know my actual. I was very close but I went in and updated all of my stuff. Hopefully my shelf edition will also be a five star read. And this one's hot off the press that I didn't even know was coming. It is called A Guardian and a Thief by Megha Majumdar and they are the author of A Burning. Do you remember that story or that book?

A (56:14)

I do. I do remember that one have it behind me.

B (56:16)

I did not read it it but I know that came out a while ago. I'm really interested in this one. This book is. This is her sophomore novel, the A Burning was her debut and it says in a near future Kolkata beset by flooding and famine. Ma, her two year old daughter and her elderly father are just days from leaving the collapsing city to join Ma's husband in Ann Arbor, Michigan. After procuring long awaited visas from the consulate. Consulate, they pack their bags for the flight to America. But in the morning they awaken to. But in the morning, they awaken to discover that Ma's purse, containing all of their treasured immigration documents, has been stolen. Set over the course of one week, A Guardian and a Thief tells two stories. The story of Ma's frantic search for the thief while keeping hunger at bay during a worsening food shortage. And the story of Boomba the thief, whose desperation to care for his family drives him to commit a series of escalating crimes, crimes the consequences of which he cannot fathom with stunning control and command, Majumdar paints a kaleidoscopic portrait of two families, each operating from a place of ferocious love and undefeated hope, each discovering how far they will go to secure their children's future as they stave off encroaching catastrophe. Excuse me. This sounds incredible. This book is slim, too. It's just at 200 pages, and this one comes out on October 14th, and I feel like it's going to be really buzzy. This was A Guardian and a Thief by Megha Majumdar. Have you ever heard that ethical question where it's about this man who creates a drug that could save that cures cancer? And then a guy comes, but he's charging, like, three times the price for this drug? And then this dude comes and steals the drug because his wife is dying, and if she doesn't get that drug, she's gonna die. So it's sort of, is he wrong for stealing or is the guy wrong for charging it too much? Have you ever heard of that? Sort of, like, moral quandary.

A (58:22)

Yes. This feels very political.

B (58:25)

It is. Yeah. Right. I don't know that when it was created, it was. But yeah, we talk about that in my Psych 101 class when we're talking about. I forget what the. Which area it is. I think it's under, like, morality and like, what would you do in this and that? And I have them debate about, you know, why it's wrong to steal the drug, but, like, also his wife, but hey, jerk, quit charging three times the price. That sort of thing. But that other people are like, well, they designed it. Why can't they? Anyway, that's what that reminds me of, because it sounds like this is a type of book where there are going to be no right answers. And I love that. I love those books. I'm really excited.

A (58:59)

Yeah. I love a nuanced story in general that deals with themes like that, where it's like, well, like, I get why that person did that, but I also get why this person did that and who is technically right or wrong. And they're probably. Probably isn't an answer. But yeah, I love stories like that too. A burning. That was a book that had kind of like a yellowish beige cover and then just one single, like, flame on it. Is that right? Or was it.

B (59:22)

I just looked at this the other day.

A (59:25)

Maybe it's a red cover.

B (59:27)

It's orange.

A (59:29)

It's orange. Oh, okay. Different. But I do remember this.

B (59:33)

I just pulled this from my shelf. I'm not kidding. Like three days ago. As a potential to read. Yeah. So serendipitous. I think it's a sign. I should probably pick this one up.

A (59:44)

You should pick it up. And I think that was one of, like, the first read with Jenna books back when her book club was newish.

B (59:51)

Yeah. And this is still. This is a sticker on the book of the month copy. If I wanted to, I could take it off. But I like stickers. I maintain that I like it.

A (60:00)

Yeah, I don't. I don't hate stickers as much as other people do. I wouldn't say I love them, but I certainly don't hate them. My shelf edition is We Met like this by Kasie West. This is coming out in mid September and I have this on my netgalley shelf. It is a romance. This is Casey West's adult debut. She has written quite a few young adult romances. This is a story about Margo, a hopeless romantic who hates dating apps, but she keeps rematching with someone named Oliver. And this is the guy that she had one disastrous date with, followed by an unforgettable kiss. When she loses her job and crosses paths with Oliver again, he unexpectedly becomes this steady presence that she needs as she tries to start her own literary agency. But there is one problem. That's that they couldn't be more different. And Margot cannot shake the fact that their story didn't begin with a meet cute. This story is full of witty banter, second chance sparks, and modern dating mishaps, and is said to be a swoony love story about finding love in the most unexpected places. In the most unexpected places. This sounds like a super cute romance and I'm excited to see what Kasie west does with her adult debut. And that is We Met like this by Kasie West.

B (61:24)

I like that when authors do, they're like, typically in one space and then they try their hand in another space.

A (61:31)

Why not give it a whirl?

B (61:33)

Why not give it a whirlwind now? Especially ya. I think that's tough to do because I feel like it's probably tough to like, elevate. Not elevate, but age your characters. And sometimes it, sometimes it happens though. But it's always one of those things where you're like, let's wait and see how this feels.

A (61:52)

Exactly. It depends. I definitely think it depends on the author because I think of V E Schwab, who writes as Victoria Schwab or VE Schwab, depending on her age, age range. But I think she always wrote in both adult and young adult and even middle grade. And so I think she'd already kind of flexed that muscle. She is one author that I can definitely tell the very distinct writing styles depending on what audience she's writing for. But there are some authors that I'm like, oh, I could definitely tell that you were a young adult author previously or vice versa. So I will be curious to see how this one compares to her young adult work and if it feels mature enough for an adult audience.

B (62:33)

Interesting. Yeah. You'll have to let us know.

A (62:35)

I sure will.

B (62:37)

Alright, folks, that is it for today. We thank you for spending a part of your day with us. Links to all the books mentioned can be found in the show notes and if you enjoyed today's episode, you can help us by following wherever you listen and by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us get our show out to new listeners and grows our audience. And don't forget, if you'd like access to exclusive, boldest content and community, you can join us for $5 a month on patreon.com booktalk Etc.

A (63:04)

If you'd like to connect with us, you can email us@booktalk etcmail.com you can also connect with us both at Booktok Etc on Instagram and on YouTube. You can find Tinabrec and you can find me, Hannah, at handpickedbooks. Talk to you next week. And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with books.

B (63:30)

Yay. Your Internet is really struggling. Your Internet, you're like, I see like one pixel.

A (63:35)

It is storming really bad right now.

B (63:37)

Oh, is it?

A (63:38)

I have. Yeah. Like it is thundering and lightning and pouring rain outside. So that's probably why.

B (63:44)

But hopefully or we got through it.

A (63:46)

Yeah, yeah, hopefully. I mean, it says up at the top, it's literally giving me a little thing that's like actual recording will be in higher quality.

B (63:55)

Just so you're aware the update. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's funny. Just so you're aware, it's not going to look like that in the final version.