Reading Out of Our Comfort Zone

Summary

Book Talk, Etc. – Episode Summary: "Reading Out of Our Comfort Zone"

Release Date: December 3, 2024

In the December 3rd episode of Book Talk, Etc., hosts Tina (@tbretc) and Hannah (@hanpickedbooks) delve into the intriguing theme of "Reading Out of Our Comfort Zone." This episode offers listeners a candid exploration of stepping beyond familiar genres and the challenges and rewards that come with it. Here’s a detailed breakdown of their engaging conversation:

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1. Community Read Discussion: "Framed" by John Grisham and Jim McCloskey

Before transitioning to their main topic, Tina and Hannah reflect on their November community read, Framed: Astonishing True Stories of Wrongful Convictions by John Grisham and Jim McCloskey.

Tina highlights the book's intense focus on wrongful convictions, stating, “[...] 10 true stories that shed light on Americans who were innocent but found guilty and forced to sacrifice friends, families, and decades of their lives to prison while the guilty parties remained free” (12:30). She commends the authors for their in-depth portrayal of systemic flaws in the criminal justice system but also expresses discomfort with the graphic language used, especially racial slurs, which she found "egregious" (19:07).

Hannah shares that the emotionally heavy content led her to abandon the book midway to avoid a reading slump, emphasizing the personal impact such nonfiction can have: “If you're reading something and it's putting you in a slump, that is a sign to put it aside” (12:30).

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2. Exploring Out of Comfort Zone Reads

Transitioning from their community read, Tina and Hannah delve into what it means to read outside one's comfort zone. They discuss the fluid nature of personal reading boundaries and how these can shift over time.

Hannah reflects on her evolving reading preferences: “I think like next year my out of my comfort zone might look different than it does this year” (26:18), illustrating how exposure and interest can redefine what genres challenge us.

Tina adds her perspective on being an eclectic reader, acknowledging that despite her wide-ranging tastes, there are still areas she's eager to explore but hasn’t yet: “I always think that I'm a pretty eclectic reader. I read widely, and I think that's true” (25:22).

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3. Book Recommendations Outside Their Comfort Zones

The heart of the episode features each host sharing books that pushed them beyond their usual reading habits.

a. Tina's Recommendations

1. "When She Unravels" by Gabrielle Sands

   • Genre: Dark Mafia Romance
   • Overview: Tina describes this book as a gripping story where the protagonist, Birdie, leaves her Mafia background to start anew in Ibiza. Despite initial skepticism, she becomes a "page-turner" and appreciates the blend of romance and intense political intrigue.
   • Notable Quote: “This was a freaking page turner. It was a barn burner. I was flipping these pages like you couldn't believe” (36:16).

2. "The Davenports" by Crystal Marquis

   • Genre: Historical YA Romance
   • Overview: Set in 1910 Chicago, this novel explores the lives of the affluent Davenport family navigating love and societal expectations. Tina praises the world-building and character dynamics, though she notes a desire for deeper character development.
   • Notable Quote: “...the first book in the Mirror Visitor quartet, so it's gonna be four books total” (44:56).

b. Hannah's Recommendations

1. "A Winter's Promise" by Christelle Davos

   • Genre: Fantasy
   • Overview: Following Ophelia, a misfit with magical abilities, this book immerses readers in a vividly imagined world fraught with political intrigue. Hannah commends the storytelling and world-building, noting it rekindled her love for fantasy.
   • Notable Quote: “I really enjoyed it. I used to read fantasy all the time before...” (44:21).

2. "Pines" by Blake Crouch

   • Genre: Science Fiction Thriller
   • Overview: Recommended by her partner, Dustin, Hannah describes Pines as a twisty, mind-bending story about a man stranded in a mysterious town post-accident. Despite critiques of the sparse writing and choppy dialogue, she praises the book’s engaging plot and surprising ending.
   • Notable Quote: “The ending made complete sense but was totally impossible to guess” (58:44).

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4. Shelf Edition: "Black Woods, Blue Sky" by Ewin Ivy

To conclude, Tina presents her Shelf Edition, introducing Black Woods, Blue Sky by Ewin Ivy. This upcoming release reimagines "Beauty and the Beast," exploring themes of love and survival in the Alaskan wilderness. Tina provides a tantalizing synopsis without revealing too much, piquing interest for its blend of romance and suspense.

Tina enthuses, “She is prepared to fall in love” (61:18), hinting at the emotional depth and intricate plot that awaits readers.

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5. Final Thoughts and Encouragement

As the episode wraps up, both hosts encourage listeners to challenge themselves by venturing into unfamiliar genres. They emphasize the growth and new perspectives that come from expanding one's reading horizons.

Hannah concludes with inspiration, “...maybe I need to find that for me where I just let go of my need to, like, make sense of everything while I'm reading” (42:34).

Tina adds, “I invite y'all to try to do a little out of your comfort zone reading” (36:04), inviting the community to embrace diverse literary experiences.

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6. Connect with Tina and Hannah

For more insights and exclusive content, listeners are encouraged to connect via their Instagram handles (@booktalketc, @tinabretc, and @hanpickedbooks) or join their Patreon community at patreon.com/booktalketc.

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Notable Quotes:

• [12:30] Tina: “10 true stories that shed light on Americans who were innocent but found guilty and forced to sacrifice friends, families...”

• [19:07] Tina: “It's very lazy and it was egregious a ton...”

• [26:18] Hannah: “I think like next year my out of my comfort zone might look different than it does this year.”

• [36:16] Tina: “This was a freaking page turner. It was a barn burner. I was flipping these pages like you couldn't believe.”

• [58:44] Hannah: “The ending made complete sense but was totally impossible to guess.”

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Timestamp Key:

• [MM:SS]: Indicates the moment in the transcript where the quote or topic was discussed.

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This episode of Book Talk, Etc. serves as both an exploration and an encouragement for readers to step beyond their literary boundaries, offering personal anecdotes, honest critiques, and a wealth of book recommendations to inspire your next great read.

Transcript

[Tina]

Okay, now we're doing it. And I was like, ah, oh, we're recording. We're just here. Okay. Welcome to Book Talk Etc, a podcast bound to grow your tbr. I'm Tina from TBR Etc.

[Hannah]

And I'm Hannah from Hand Picked Books.

[Tina]

This is a conversational podcast about books and more from two Midwest moot readers easily distracted by new releases. And today we're talking about out of our comfort zones, reading.

[Hannah]

If you enjoyed listening, we'd love for you to follow us on Apple Podcasts or your favorite podcast app. And if you have a quick minute, please consider leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts or sharing us on social media. It truly helps us connect with other book lovers.

[Tina]

Hey everyone. Before we get started, we wanted to share a couple of announcements with you. Number one, we have new merch, so we will link to that in the Show Notes. We have three designs. Jollibooka Flood, which is the holiday book Blood, our original Everything's Better with Books logo, and a Reading Is Political design, the proceeds of which will be donated to Unite Against Book Ban. So if you're in the market for some new merch, check out that link. We also just dropped our Winter Reading Guide. This has been a labor of love. It's something Hannah and I are so proud of and we've been reading ahead behind the scenes to get some content for this. So our Winter Reading Guide is a collection of book recommendations that's designed to offer something for every reader to make the most of this winter season. The guide is divided into five sections. Complicated Family Stories, all youl Need Is Love, Snowed In, Mysteries and Thrillers, Winter Warnings and Holiday Horror, and our Easily Distracted by New Releases section where we have five 2025 winter releases that we have read that we wanted to put on your radar. If you're already a patron, you've already received this guide, but if you're not a patron, you can buy this individually for $7. We will also put the link to that in the Show Notes. Speaking of Patreon, it is the first Tuesday of the month, so we do want to take the time to invite you to join us over there. Patreon is our online membership platform that gives you a way to financially support the podcast for $5 a month and and you get access to all of our bonus content. And this includes our brand new Winter Reading Guide. If you sign up, be sure to sign up via the web. To avoid the iOS surcharge, we'll put the correct link in the Show Notes. You can also request a Patreon membership as a gift. Add it to your holiday wish list. Go to patreon.com booktalk etc gift to gift it to somebody in your life or to request it for yourself. For December, here are our offerings. We will have our Mood Reader Happy Hour, a live Zoom event with Tina, Jonathan and Hannah and any patrons that want to join and share their favorite book of 2024 that will be on December 10th. We also have two brand new bonus episodes, a niche novels as well as a book Talk After Dark. We will also have our community read at the end of the month. We will be reading Rental House by Wakey Wang which is going to be perfect for this time of the year. If all of this sounds like something you'd be interested in, we'd love to have you head to patreon.com booktalk etc or look for the link in our show notes. Thank you so much for your support.

[Hannah]

I am really excited for our bonus episodes and just to chat about all things 2024. I can't believe we're here.

[Tina]

I can't either. I was that's why I was like peeking at you out of this corner of my eye as I'm reading this because I'm like, is that right? Is that the end of the year?

[Hannah]

Yes, it's the end of the year.

[Tina]

Indeed. Indeed. Yes. Well, as we're recording, it's the day after Thanksgiving, so hope you had a wonderful holiday. We hosted and had a great time, but now it's officially in our minds the start of the holiday season, right?

[Hannah]

Yes, it is. And Midwest really blessed us with some snow over here in Michigan. So we got to wake up to a winter wonderland. And what a way to start the holiday season. It's absolutely perfect.

[Tina]

I love that. I know. We decorated our tree this morning and some flakes started falling and I'm like, yep, okay, it's time. It's magic. It truly is magic. But it's also right now Black Friday, where all the sales are happening and I was looking for something, one thing and I can't remember what it was now because of course I opened my phone, went to Target. I'm like, oh my God, everything's 40%. Yeah. All the shoes are 40% off. I'm over here. I'm in TikTok shop. I'm like, you need to put your phone down. Like go do something else because Lord knows I don't need more stuff. But I was shopping a little bit before this morning. But we will hop right into our loving lately and I will Admit I was like, gosh, what am I going to bring today? And I was getting ready for the day and using my obsession. I use this thing every day since I got it. So I was like, here's your loving lately. Bring this to the show. It's a brand that I've never talked about before. It is my favorite luxury makeup brand. It's called Auric A Uric, and it's by a content creator. Her name is Samantha Ravndol. And I followed Samantha for, like, I want to say, 10, 12 years. At this point. She was a beauty youtuber and since has pivoted into a makeup brand. And she's one of those creators I think is very authentic. I followed her for so long when she first came out with her first product, I'm like, okay, let me try it. I love her stuff. It's luxury, so the price is up there, but the amount of research and the amount of just sort of care they put into their products is inspiring, and that makes me want to support the brand. They're not just a fash, you know, beauty brand where they're putting out new things every couple of weeks. Like, it's very. Every launch or every drop is very, very thoughtful. The one that I most recently got is the Mirage Shift cream cheek palette. And I love cream products when I'm doing makeup, like bronzer and blush and highlighter and Sam does, too. I know she's talked about wanting to do this with her brand for years and years and years. She came out with it, and I said, I know it's expensive, but let me just use it. Cause I'm thinking cost per wear. If I love it, I'm going to use it every day. I've used it literally every day for a month, and I am obsessed. It's very subtle, but you can build it if you're a makeup person. This one blends out so nice. You know, the creaminess is important, but I'm just loving it. You've got a bronzer, a blush, and two highlighters with the palette. So that's been my most recent obsession. I am also a big fan of the Glow Lust Radiant Luminizer. Just sort of a liquid highlighter that you could use all over your face or just in certain spots. And the first product that she came out with that I bought were this cream and powder eyeshadow duos. I still have them, and again, they're spending right now for Black Friday. They're 25% off, but probably won't be. When you're listening to this. But this eyeshadow lasts a really long time. It's got a creamy section as well as a glittery section. And really that's all I wanted to do was to bring attention to this brand that I think does things really, really well. It's something I have been absolutely loving for many years now. As soon as she put out product, I was there and bought, you know, was first in line to get something and support her. I also hear that her plush Ritual Recovery Ceramide lip treatment is the best on the market. I have not purchased it yet, but as I'm looking at this website, I'm very tempted but wanted to share my favorite luxury makeup brand with you all in case anybody's on the market or, you know, you're sort of a makeup lover. I think this is a very, very solid company to support. This is the company called Oric.

[Hannah]

I am always happy when you bring a new makeup item or, you know, I just, I love. I've never heard of this before and I feel like you gave a lot of recommendations too, of different products to try. Thank you for that.

[Tina]

I don't know who's gonna, you know, I'm not sure if this will have wide appeal, but if, if it does, you know, if you end up checking it out, somebody out there let me know.

[Hannah]

Yeah, absolutely. Mine is completely different. Could not be more different, but it's one of those like random loving latelys that it. It feels so random when you talk about it. But it's one of those everyday things where you're just like, well, I've. This has like been an everyday thing for me for a while. And for us, this is me and, and Dustin both. We've been loving this. And it's a sweet tea and lemonade ice drink. You know those ice drinks that you can get at the grocery store, they're carbonated. You can usually get like. It's like five for or like five for $5 or whatever. They come in like the tall. Whatever.

[Tina]

Anyway, the gestures are.

[Hannah]

It's like a soda alternative.

[Tina]

Sure.

[Hannah]

And they're all carbonated and the ingredients just aren't like quite as bad as a lot of the other soda alternatives and like diet drinks and stuff. So it's something. It's a. So soda alternative that you don't have to feel quite as guilty about, or at least I don't. This particular flavor we have been loving. We found it at our local grocery store once and we literally clear the shelves every time. Like, I swear we are the people that clear the Shelves of this particular flavor. And that's their sweet tea and lemonade. So it's like an Arnie Palmer, but it's carbonated. And I was very skeptical at first because I was like, well, I like Arnold Palmer's but carbonated, I don't know. And my life is changed. I now realize that they're on Amazon and you can get a 12 pack for like $14 on Amazon.

[Tina]

Yeah, I know that's a great price.

[Hannah]

It's a great price. So you know, I ordered some of those which. It feels so silly to like order drinks on Amazon.

[Tina]

But like, I definitely do.

[Hannah]

Our grocery store can't keep up with us, so. And I want to make sure that I have one of these on hand all the time when I need my little treat, but don't want to have a soda. So I've been loving these. I like their flavors in general. Some of my other flavors of theirs that I really like are just their classic lemonade, their pink grapefruit I really like. Dustin really likes their black cherry flavor. And my kids like them too when they want like a soda pop treat. And again, we don't want to give them, you know, a Coke before bed. So. So yeah, we've been loving these ice drinks in general. But this flavor, the sweet treat, the sweet tea and lemonade has been a big hit for us lately. So yeah, that's the sweet tea and lemonade ice drinks and you can get a 12 pack on Amazon.

[Tina]

I need to search this because I have. I'm not picturing what they look like, but I'm glad you discovered this. I love a good drink recommendation. Speaking of giving your kids Coke, we were having Thanksgiving yesterday and my mother in law sitting with our one year old and she's like, oh yeah, I've given Cassia Coke before. I said, excuse me, excuse me. She said, what? She. She's like, well, not a full one, but yeah, she's had a sip of diet Coke before. Oh. I'm like, I don't. Whatever. Listen, when they're at the grandparents site, all bets are off, right? I'm like, you're watching them for the day. You gotta get through it.

[Hannah]

Arrive alive.

[Tina]

And I was like, arrive alive. I was like, a Coke, a cola classic. She's like, well, it was diet. Yeah, okay.

[Hannah]

I was like, let's be clear. We're talking about Coca Cola, right?

[Tina]

Coca Cola. Yes, exactly. No. Yeah, a little sip of Coca Cola. Anyway, fun times.

[Hannah]

Well, speaking of bubbly drinks, here's our true crime book.

[Tina]

I know. Yeah, it's a real mixed bag today. I don't know. But we will chat about our latest read. It's our mutual latest read because it was our community read for November, Framed by John Grisham and Jim McCloskey. And I will say this is a solo latest solo latest read because Hannah didn't finish she Abandoned Ship, which is in full support of.

[Hannah]

Well, and I try not to do it for these community reads especially, but since November 7th reading and everything has been really hard and I was really falling into a reading slump and we're approaching the end of the year and I really didn't want to because it affects the podcast, too, in terms of, like, my ability to be able to keep reading and, like bring recommendations. And I really wanted to not have it basically impact my whole rest of the year reading. So I have some questions for Tina, though, and I will participate as much as I can. I did listen to the first couple stories and I listened to the end. But Tina definitely spearheaded this book club discussion. And so I'll let you take the lead and tell us what it's about.

[Tina]

Sure. And I am in full support for you. But of course, any listeners, if you are reading something and it's putting you in a slump, like, that is a sign to put it aside no matter what the book is. You know, if it's book club, if it's just personal whatnot. But this one is the subtitle is Astonishing True Stories of Wrongful Convictions. And I picked this for this was one I suggested for a community read because it was nonfiction November. And I like John Grisham as an author, especially his earlier stuff, but I thought this sounded interesting. I'm also so I don't know if fascinating is the right word or fascinated is the right word, but I'm just so, like activated when I think about wrongful convictions. And in this book, John Grisham teamed up with Jim McCloskey, who's of something called Centurion Ministries, the first organization dedicated to exonerating innocent people who have been wrongfully convicted. And together they come and share 10 stories of people who have been wrongfully convicted. And the book sort of goes back and forth. You'll get a story from Grisham, you'll get a story from McCloskey. And I will say, I don't know that you missed much having read the first three. They're pretty similar through all throughout. They're all pretty terrible and huge bummers. Even me, somebody who can plow through and sort of, you know, when I'm In a read. I rarely get in reading slump, so it's. It's rare for me to feel like I have to put a book aside. This one I did. I was like, this is tough.

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Tina]

And especially, like, I was doing, like, holiday stuff. Like, I just don't know if I can, like, do, like, my happy fun time while listening to this. This, for me, was a really good book when I was multitasking, doing work tasks that, you know, don't require as much. Like, I'm not talking on the phone or anything like that. This was a really good one to have in the background for me because there are 10 true stories that shed light on Americans who were innocent but found guilty and forced to sacrifice friends, families, and decades of their lives to prison while the guilty parties remained free. And they talk in the book very in depth about the battles that these people went through to get exonerated. And, you know, some do, some don't, whatnot. And of course, a lot of what they're doing is shedding light on the wrongful convictions, shedding light on the cracks and the flaws in our criminal justice system. And it was shocking, but not surprising. Like, some of the things that went through. I think for me, one of the first stories was so out of pocket. And a lot of these stories were so out of pocket that I'm like, if I had read this in a thriller, I would say the author was being lazy because there's no way on earth this would actually happen.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Tina]

The first one is about the Norfolk Four. And it was. Again, I was so. I was reading this, I knew nothing of the case. It's very notorious. And I'm just reading and thinking, okay, a woman gets murdered, and there is a person. What I guess liked about this. And again, liked feels like a strange way to say it, but I like that we know as I'm reading this short story, what happened. And, like, it's not one of those things that you're like, well, who done it? Who died? What happened? They really framed it pretty well so you know what happened. And then you get. You come to see how a bunch of people in this case wrongfully confessed. And that was just so shocking. They, instead of believing the evidence that pointed to this one person, they chose to believe that now a fourth man was involved, now a fifth man, now a sick. Like, it was like a gang of people that they believed were involved in this crime. And the answer was quite simple.

[Hannah]

And they made up the story basically along the way by manipulating, like, interrogations. Yes, interrogations. They you know, manipulated these interrogations and basically kind of, like, created their own. Choose your own adventure with this. With this case.

[Tina]

Exactly. And they stuck to it because they didn't want to come out looking dumb, that they had done any wrongdoing. I'm talking about the law enforcement. I learned a lot of things with this book. Primarily that it's legal for cops to lie to suspects when they are being interrogated and saying, like, no, your buddy's already ratted you out. There's evidence you failed the polygraph test. They're lying to get them to confess.

[Hannah]

Yes.

[Tina]

And that's how they got super manipulated.

[Hannah]

I was shocked in the first story when they said that law enforcement is allowed to, like, omit certain information with polygraph tests or basically, like, lie on if they passed or failed it.

[Tina]

Was that what they said?

[Hannah]

Yeah.

[Tina]

Yes. I did not know that. And then the other thing that I was kind of getting worked up about was, were false confessions. They happen throughout the story or throughout this book. And it's one of those things. You're like, no way. You would never confess. You would never confess. But they did a really good job painting the picture of how people get to the breaking point and finally think, forget it. Let me just sign it.

[Hannah]

Psychologically torture these people and gaslight them into literally, like, believing certain. Not like believing, but kind of believing certain things. That's really.

[Tina]

Well, especially a lot of the people. They shared, like, their IQ was, like, you know, very low. And, like, you know, obviously their circumstances that, like, led them to get into this first case. Another thing that made me wacky were jailhouse snitches that came up more than once where the police would basically, you know, pay people that were incarcerated to say, oh, well, this woman said this. She confessed to the crime. Even though they're getting paid to say that. I just can't believe that that's a thing that is allowed. It. It's. This whole thing was very hard to square, like, that this is true, that these are true stories. Again, I'm like, there's just no way. It's another book, too. What I liked about it is that it was one that sent me on a lot of rabbit holes. I would, like, dig in and, like, have to know, okay, who were these men? What did they look like? What happened here is this person out. I. And in some of them, you do. You know, you get the full story. You get closure, but not without great sacrifice to what these people. The time, the. The years that they spent in prison.

[Hannah]

Obviously, they can never get that back.

[Tina]

And some of them did receive big settlements. And, you know, in some cases they would talk about, like, what the people that were convicted are doing today. But a lot of times some of their loved ones would pass away while they were in jail. And I found. We did the book club chat last week, and it was not. A ton of people came, which is fine. We kind of found that there was not a lot to discuss. We're like, this sucks, basically. It's like, what do you say about it? It's. This book is important. This book is a downer. There were some things. My biggest critique with this, I will say, is that this book uses a lot of racial slurs and says the full thing instead of bleeping them out, which irritates me, especially when you're listening.

[Hannah]

To the audio and hearing that over and over again.

[Tina]

Hello. I don't need to hear this. I read Eric Larson's book that was set during the Civil War and used some of the language that was used back then, but it was bleeped in the audio, which I really appreciated. And I think they should have done that here. I think it was very lazy and it was egregious a ton, and it.

[Hannah]

Was irritating me, the language in general. And again, I didn't finish it. But the language in general was very. I don't wanna say clinical when it comes to specifically racial slurs and things like that, but in general, even outside of those elements to how the book was written, it was also very clinical with, like. I mean, a lot of words were used that are hard to listen to when it comes to, like, things that were done to people, that were done to women, things that are used when talking about these cases that they obviously have to, especially in law enforcement and on trial and et cetera, et cetera. It was hard to listen to. It was like, this person did this to this woman and then they did this and then they were accused of this. And it's just like hearing those words over and over again is really tough.

[Tina]

Yeah. So I can absolutely see how this would put somebody into a reading slap. Do I recommend it? It sounds like I hated the book. I did not hate it. I. I feel like it's, again, important to. To tell it sort of read a little bit like a podcast. So I might recommend, you know, taking it as you would podcasts. Right. Not binging it over the course of a day or a couple days, like, if you're going to read it or listen to it, you know, taking one story at a time and getting out what you will from it. I also want to plug Bear Brook Season 2, which I brought as a loving lately a while ago. If you're fascinated and just disturbed by false confessions and, like, wonder how on earth could this happen, definitely recommend checking that podcast out, if you haven't already, because it's a story of a man right now who's currently in prison for signing a false confession. And recently since the podcast, some things have been coming out and it's just a fascinating, incredibly well researched story. So recommend that podcast. The book was decent. I think I'm at like three and a half, four stars.

[Hannah]

Okay, that's fair.

[Tina]

So, you know, that's what it. It is what it is. Any other things to add to the. To the framed conversation?

[Hannah]

Just that I do think that there. If there's one benefit of books like this that we don't think were done perfectly, but that we still got benefit from, it's that, like, if it. If it took you down a deep dive or at least led you to being able to learn more, like, even if the book itself didn't necessarily give you everything that it wanted, like, if it led you to maybe get better resources or learn better information, et cetera, then, you know, I think that that's one positive for sure.

[Tina]

Yeah. And my biggest takeaway is, even if I'm innocent, if for some reason I ever find myself in that situation, to get. To not waive my Miranda rights and to get a lawyer.

[Hannah]

Absolutely.

[Tina]

It said 80 to 90% of all innocent people waive their Miranda rights. And I'm like, what? But like.

[Hannah]

And be careful when you're talking to, like, I mean, just in general, just really being careful when you're talking to people and law enforcement, especially when they're asking you questions. And it's just scary.

[Tina]

But. Well, it's. Yeah. Especially one of the cases a woman went to report what she saw, and, like, she ended up getting convicted of the thing she had nothing to do with. So. Anywho, gotta go. Let's. Let's land this plane that was framed by John Grisham and Jim McCloskey. I don't know. I wish I had a holiday fun story for you, but that's. That's. That's. That.

[Hannah]

That's okay. Sometimes things are the way they are, and that's okay.

[Tina]

It's exactly. We're wrapping up nonfiction. November, right?

[Hannah]

Wrapping it up.

[Tina]

All right, well, we will talk a little bit about. I will say our episode topic is out of our comfort zone reads. So potentially this could fit into that.

[Hannah]

Topic books that make us uncomfortable, for sure. Yeah. So Tina and I wanted to do this episode because earlier in the year when we kind of first started the show together, we did an episode on our comfort zone Reads, partially to kind of like familiarize each other with our reading lives and other people of just like, what we like, what kinds of books we'll be reading and bringing to the show, et cetera. But then we had the idea to kind of wrap it up and talk about the reverse of that, which is out of our comfort zone. So I thought that. I don't know, I think it's really fun to stretch myself as a reader and I feel like I read really eclectically anyway. And Tina, I feel like you do too. You have, like, you know, those genres that you go back to. But in general, I do think that both of us are people that are kind of down to try a whole lot of different stuff. And so I thought that this episode would be interesting because it really made me think, like, what is out of my comfort zone. Because when I think about, like, genres and things like that, there aren't too many genres that I won't try, maybe that are like a little out of my comfort zone. But. But I had a little bit of a hard time narrowing down genres. So I'm curious what you did in terms of like, narrowing down what for you is out of your comfort zone.

[Tina]

Yeah, and it was a really fun episode to try and prep for because I was running into the same thing where I'm like, what. What is out of my comfort zone? Because I'm. I always think that I'm a pretty eclectic reader. I read widely, and I think that's true. But I'm always willing to try new things and push the boundary and see, like, what would work and what potentially I could really enjoy. I had a couple options for mine, and I knew we were going to do this episode. We must have said that we were going to do it a long time ago. So I had like, a little running list in my thing of, like, books, like, I might try for this particular episode. One of them was more deep into. It was like a sci fi slash fantasy book. I'm not bringing that one today. But I was like, okay, I don't read a ton in this area. I was also thinking ya. I was also thinking romance. And so I ended up landing on a romance and a young adult historical fiction novel. But that was. I was sort of just looking at titles in general, and if it was a title that I was like, ugh, I Might like this. It sounds interesting, but if there was something giving me pause that made me not want to run to pick it up, that's what I decided to try for this.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that makes sense. I was trying to do genres, but then, I don't know. I am such a seasonal reader. Not in terms of with the actual seasons like winter, spring, fall or whatever, but also in terms of my own seasons where I'll go through phases where I read so much romance this year when I don't. Normally I read some, but I don't read that many. I've read, I think, over 10 romances this year, which is a lot for me. And then normally I would say that young adult is out of my comfort zone, but now I've been reading a lot more young adult lately, so I don't know if saying that is out of my comfort zone zone would align with my reading right now. Although maybe it would have at some point. I think like last year I read like one young adult book all year, whereas this year I've read quite a few. So I think for me, like, it can ebb and flow. Like next year my out of my comfort zone might look different than it does this year.

[Tina]

Yes, that's true.

[Hannah]

But there are a couple of things that I think remain pretty consistent that I had like a little running list of. And one of them being big books in general, like, that is definitely out of my comfort zone. If it's over 500 pages, I am very intimidated because I'm not patient and I never, like. I rarely regret it when it's a book that I really think I'm going to love. And I finally decided to like, sit down and read this long book 9 times out of 10. I am glad that I did it, but I rarely take the time to do it. And I would definitely consider it something that I'm just like. I dread it almost sometimes. I don't like that about myself, but I do.

[Tina]

It's fair though. I think a lot of us can relate to that.

[Hannah]

Yeah, I really would like to spend more time, in fact, I would like to spend more time, I think, in my future reading life, giving myself more patience, even if it means going through other books more quickly, but then having a book that I'm going through slowly so that I can still feel like I'm. I'm making progress while going slowly with something else.

[Tina]

Are you somebody that does? I know currently reading calls it their slow and steady books. Are you somebody that can be slow and steady?

[Hannah]

I can if I give myself like, rules. And if I continually check in, but if I just have a book that I'm slowly making my way through without any. Like. Like, if it's just sitting on my nightstand, not gonna make time for it. But if I make myself rules where, like, at least twice a week, I need to read this for 30 minutes before I read my other book that I've got going on audio or on my Kindle or something, I have to set rules for myself or I'll abandon it, like, halfway through.

[Tina]

Do you follow those rules?

[Hannah]

I can follow those rules.

[Tina]

Yeah. I can't.

[Hannah]

I can.

[Tina]

I'm asking, I'm probing. Because I really, a while ago was. I've been in a couple buddy reads of chunkier books and some people are so great about. Okay, you know, this week we're doing this pages. This week we're doing this many pages. Checking in. I am so bad. I can't do it. If I. If you tell me I have to read these twice, pick up this book twice this week, I just won't do it. I don't know what's wrong with me. I do. And I will read long books, but I find that I have to go all in. I have to be in on it or I'm not doing it. It's like that habit, right? Like, I have to be in the habit of, like, immersed in that story, otherwise I won't pick it up. But anyway, it's. We're not talking long books today. But it was just thought processing.

[Hannah]

We're not. But I am curious just, you know, while we're on the subject, while we're here. While we're here and talking about that. Do you have. What do you do if you want to read this long book, but you need to read other books for an upcoming episode or for book club or whatever? Do you just make yourself plow through it really fast?

[Tina]

Yeah, I just power through and see.

[Hannah]

That I can't do.

[Tina]

Yeah, really?

[Hannah]

I'll not have a book that I bring to the podcast before I do that.

[Tina]

Say that.

[Hannah]

Like, I will not have a book that I'm bringing to the podcast before I can do that. So then I just don't do it.

[Tina]

Yeah, no, I see that. I see that. No, I'm just tandem reading, right. So I'll have the audio and I'll have the ebook, and I'll have the physical book if I can get it from the library or whatnot. And I always just have it. It's tricky for me to start new books, but once I'm in them, I'm pretty good at just, like, powering through. Like, I've read a. I think it's like, 400 pages over the last. And granted, I had a lot to do. I was doing a lot of audio, but in, like, 24 hours. And that was, like, not a thing. Like, it was a lot of listening, but it was like, I was in the story, so I didn't mind the page length. Yeah.

[Hannah]

And I think that this. So this actually brings me to another thing that I don't. One of my other, like, out of my comfort zone things is series and fantasy books. And I feel like, specifically with series and with fantasy novels, you do have to, like, starting them is hard because starting books is hard in general. But I feel like, especially with, like, fantasy or sci fi or series, typically those have much slower starts. So you need to have pretty big swaths of time, or at least I do, to be able to sit down and really get invested in the story before continuing. And I think where I get really frustrated is, well, obviously I have young kids, and so I get interrupted a lot, and so I feel like it's very hard to, like, have that big swath of time. But one of the books that I'm bringing today is a fantasy book, and it was in a series. And I feel like the reason why I was able to really enjoy it and get into it is because I listened to it. Well, I finished it yesterday while I was cooking for Thanksgiving. And, you know, you're spending, like, two, three hours in the kitchen. And I was by myself because our family, although we gathered in one place for Thanksgiving, we all used our separate kitchens for cooking. So I was by myself cooking in the kitchen for, like, two or three hours. And I mean, by the time I was done, I was like, oh, my gosh, the book is done. And I can't remember the last time I was. Didn't even look at, like, okay, how many minutes do I have left of this audiobook? Okay, I can squeeze in 30 minutes before this next work meeting and before I have to get my kid down for a nap. And I think that that just brings up a really good point of, like, well, are series and fantasy books out of my comfort zone? Or am I just not giving myself the time? Or do I not have the time to invest in them the way I need to?

[Tina]

That's a great point. And I see what you mean now when you said, like, sometimes your comfort zone changes, and it's not because you don't like these genres. You might not have experience My thing is I just probably haven't tried them yet. But I think you're right. Some books that it might be out of our comfort zone to be able to dedicate more space and more brain power to that. I was looking at a vampire fantasy book that I was curious about. Immortal. Immortal, Dark. I'm sorry.

[Hannah]

Oh, yes, yes. So I was going to read like Romantasy.

[Tina]

It's a romantic. The cruel prince meets the ninth house. I don't know what that means. It's dark academia. But I got it for our dark academia. And I truly read three pages seven times. And I was like, what are they saying? This is not computing. But I had just had gallbladder surgery. So then I came back to it for this. I was like, maybe now's the time. It is not yet the time, but maybe it will be someday.

[Hannah]

Sure. Yeah. No, it's really hard to start books that have like that really complex world building or tons of characters or lots of POVs. And it's like I used to read these all the time when I was in college or high school because I literally was just on winter break and all I had to do was read.

[Tina]

What a dream.

[Hannah]

Yeah. One other thing that I wanted to mention that I'm curious if you agree agree with is I put for out of my comfort zone books that I haven't heard a lot about. So like, if I haven't heard a lot about it and I see it at Barnes and Noble or the library or the bookstore, I think that again. And I don't know if it's like a lack of patience thing, but like instead of sitting and looking at it and being like, oh, that looks intriguing. And then like opening up, opening it up and reading the synopsis and being like, wow, that sounds like a book I would really enjoy. And then bringing it home and reading said book is something that I don't do a lot of. And whenever I hear people doing that, I'm just like, that's cool that you do that because I don't same.

[Tina]

I would love to. But yeah, I definitely don't find that I do that. I have a really, really fun way that I found one of the books I'm bringing today. I was at the this Midwest Lit Fest and one of the local bookstores was there. I was like, I told my friends, I was like, I'm not buying anything. I'm just gonna look. And then of course I meandered over and they were like, I like your shirt. And I was wearing our Everything's better with Books, book talk, et cetera. Merch plug. We have new merch. We'll put it in the show notes. But it was a romance bookstore, specifically. I said, fine. I said. And we got back and forth. What do you like to read? And this, that. And the woman was like, I like to read dark romance. And I said, okay, can you tell me what that is? What does that mean? She said, great, I thought you'd never ask. And starts pulling books, right? And she explained it. She was a horror reader. That was her favorite lane. And so she's like, just so you know, these are, you know, can get graphic. But like, I started in horror, so, like, it doesn't bother me. I said, wait, there was a. There's a horror to dark romance pipeline. Like, there's some relationship there. And so she hand sold me this book. I bought it, read it, bringing it today, and I'll let you know later on what I think. I knew nothing about it other than it was dark romance. I didn't know what it was about. I didn't even read the synopsis. And then of course, I'm like, I just, as I want to do, you know, I like to discover books and authors. And I was like, oh, I'm going to be so cool. Because no, it's probably under the radar. No, it's got 28,000 reviews on Goodreads. So people have heard of this.

[Hannah]

The romance besties out there have a big following. A big, like, anytime that I'm like, yet one of these romance books where you're. You're like, I've never heard of this. And. And someone hand sold it to me or I saw it once on Instagram or whatever. And then you go to Goodreads and you're like, oh, this has a following. Like, this book has a following.

[Tina]

Yeah, for sure. And I can see why. And I know the trope that people like about this. But anyway, we'll get into that later.

[Hannah]

Yeah, well, I mean, I'm excited to hear you talk about these books. Do you have anything else to add for. For books that are out of your comfort zone?

[Tina]

I don't. I'm excited to sit down and take stock of my 2024 reading and see me too. What genres worked, what I missed out on in terms of, like, what I wanted to read more of. And I think, you know, I invite listeners to do the same. Try and figure out what is out of your comfort zone and maybe why that is and what. What might it be like to read a book that's out of your Comfort zone. And sort of, why is that so hard? Right? Like, it should be. You would think, like. Like you described, just pick up a book and start reading it. But, like, it's more complex than that.

[Hannah]

It sure does.

[Tina]

Yeah. I invite y'all to try to do a little out of your comfort zone. Reading. Maybe some of our titles will inspire you.

[Hannah]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tina]

Do you wanna know about the dark romance I read?

[Hannah]

I wanna know about it. Okay, tell us about it first.

[Tina]

Okay. So another thing. She said she read Red Horror. That was her big thing. She also said this book she picked up at like, 7pm and stayed up till 3am reading it, and she's not normally a binge reader like that. Yeah, I said, okay, say less. The book that I picked up was When She Unraveled by Gabrielle Sands. It is part of a series, the Fallen series, book one of three. And it is a dark Mafia romance.

[Hannah]

A Mafia romance? You went a Mafia romance?

[Tina]

I don't know anything about dark romance. In fact, I'm still not quite sure I know what that means, as opposed to not dark. I think it means there's murder and stuff. But anywho.

[Hannah]

Okay. Okay.

[Tina]

I'm glad that I did not read this synopsis, because there's no way I would have picked it. He's the most powerful man in Ibiza, and he'll do anything to make me his. I've been raised to be the perfect Mafia wife. But when my marriage turns into a horrific nightmare, I have no choice but to leave everything behind and start a new life. I find myself alone in Ibiza, a place that swallows innocent girls like me alive. I am robbed the day I arrive, left with nothing but a few Euros in the clothes on my back. Anyway, she meets the don, right? And that's the person that they sort of have an entanglement with together. Whatever. I don't like the synopsis at all. I don't like when they're written from the first person where I'm. She's like, I this, I that. Because I'm like, yeah, I want it to be a little bit more scaled out, I guess. So, again, I'm glad that I didn't read that, because there's no way I would have picked it up. What I did do. The book opens with her literally leaving her husband. And I'm like, where is she going? What is gonna happen to this woman? Because I knew it was a dark, dark Mafia, but I'm like, you're leaving the Mafia? Why are you going here? And you figure all of this out this was a freaking page turner. It was a barn burner. I was flipping these pages like you couldn't believe. It did take me like several days to get through because I just had the print and E version. It is on Kindle Unlimited. I really liked the story. I liked the two main characters. I liked the sub characters. I was even interested in some of the sub characters. And as I'm reading, I'm like, oh, I bet they're going to have a romance. I bet they're going to have a romance. And like, I really like the politics of the Mafia. This is way open door. Like you are inside the room. And that I don't care for. I don't need that. But if you like spice. I think this was like five chili peppers out of five. I don't know. I mean, I'm like, do you feel like they're skippable?

[Hannah]

Like, could you skip them if you really wanted to and still understand the story completely?

[Tina]

And that's what I liked about it because. And I don't skip em fully. I'm like, oh, what's going on here? Cause they do have some banter and some of it was witty. Some of it made me want to gouge my eyes out because it was so cringy. But it was also fun. Like, it was like, fun to read. I had a very good time reading this. This made me realize, and I know this to be true, but some books are meant to be candy. Like straight up cotton candy. You're just. Just like tv, right? Some of the programs or shows we watch are just silly and fun and interesting, entertaining, and that's what you're getting. I found myself not analyzing it too bad and too heavily, like, right. I wasn't like, sitting there like, well, that's, you know, that's bad. But hon, honestly, I was interested in some of the politics. Now, do I. I just put this book down. No, I. I do remember her name, but, you know, she doesn't have the most. The writing is not like the strongest. Right. But it is entertaining as can be. I'm like, honestly very curious. I'm like, I. Am I going to continue on in this series? Is this what I'm gonna do in December and, like, read what happens next? Because the next book, I was right, is two different characters and there's a third book that's two other characters in it.

[Hannah]

Okay.

[Tina]

But it is very. I like reading some of the Reviews on. On NetGalley, on Goodreads, if you want to get a vibe for some of the things you'll be reading. I don't know. I thought it was a good time. I don't know what to say. I had a good. I had a good time with it. Somebody rated this two out of five. Chili Peppers. I'm dying. What on earth. So maybe take.

[Hannah]

Have you seen some of the books that some of these romance folks are reading out there?

[Tina]

I have. Clearly not. Oh, my God. Anyway, I'm reading through of this, but I liked it. As somebody that doesn't know what I'm talking about, I thought it was a good time, and I don't know if you want to escape and read something smutty and Mafia Y. This was a fun one for me. This is When She Unravels by Gabrielle Sands.

[Hannah]

Hearing you talk about this is making me wonder if we shouldn't do an Unhinged Romance episode.

[Tina]

What is Unhinged Romance? I have. You'll have to.

[Hannah]

I have some tiktoks to share with you after this.

[Tina]

Oh, did you hear her? Oh, God, look at my face. Yeah, I think this would be a good time. Yeah. Let us know if you want me to read.

[Hannah]

That would be fun.

[Tina]

Unhinged Romance. Because, like, I really thought this was, like, pretty, you know, pretty spicy.

[Hannah]

Yeah. Well, I'm sure that it is.

[Tina]

Yeah. But it does. You're right. It's skippable in terms of, like. It's not the entire book. There's, like, several scenes where you get that. I know. In our discord for our patrons, we had. Is it still there? I know we used to have a. Yeah. A what?

[Hannah]

Like a romance.

[Tina]

Not a romance thread. It's a trash club thread with the eyes closed. So, yeah, they. Yeah, I remember. I mean, we set this up a couple years ago, and they. I was like, oh, I'm gonna read one of these books. Haven't yet, so I think this would qualify you. Ooh, let me know.

[Hannah]

Love that. And I do feel like it's good to have a genre that you are able to not necessarily suspend your disbelief, although, you know that too, but also, like, suspend your need for, like, literary goodness, you know, like, you have to have. And I feel like with some genres, that's easier to do than others. For every reader. Like, every reader, I feel like it's good to have that genre where it's like. Whether it's fantasy or dark romance or popcorn thriller or whatever it is, where you're like, I am letting go of my need for good writing. I'm letting go of my need for this to make sense. And I do Feel like sometimes. Well, I don't know. I don't know if I figured out what genre that is for me yet, but I love this journey that you're on, and it is inspiring me. And I'm like, maybe I need to find that for me where I just let go of my need to, like, make sense of everything while I'm reading, which is something I talk about with Tina a lot. Yeah, I need to let my brain go.

[Tina]

Stop. Yeah, right. Exactly. And, of course, like, some of this, like, how on earth that would not happen, but, like, I'm glad it did because I want to see what happens when these.

[Hannah]

I want to know.

[Tina]

I want to know what's going to go on here, what's going to go down. So I would be down to do that. What did you call it? Unhinged.

[Hannah]

Unhinged Romance.

[Tina]

Unhinged romance. I'm okay. I could do that. I could do it.

[Hannah]

All right. TBD 2025, here we come.

[Tina]

Okay, what is your first one?

[Hannah]

Okay, my first one was also. Well, both of these were pretty much wins for me, but this was, like, my biggest win. And that is A Winter's Promise, which is the first book in a series called the Mirror Visitor by Christelle Davos. I don't believe that this series is finished yet, which I can't believe I'm getting into a series that I really like, in which there are only two books out. I think there are only two books out from what I looked at this morning. But in this book, we are following Ophelia, who is a misfit with the ability to read objects, pasts, and she can travel through mirrors, which is really cool. And this lends to some really fun encounters and plot developments throughout the story. Ophelia lives a pretty quiet life on her own ark, which is this fantasy world's version of, like, a city or region. And she is thrust into some really intense political intrigue when she is forced to marry Thorn, who is this cold aristocrat from the icy arc of Pol. And the city that she is in is really treacherous, and it's really hard to know who she can trust. It's hard for the reader to know who she can trust, which seems to be no one. She pretty soon discovers that she is a pawn in a really dangerous game that could upend her entire world and potentially her life. This is the first book in the Mirror Visitor quartet, so it's gonna be four books total. And it introduces a really, really. I loved this heroine. A really captivating heroine in a vividly Imagined universe of floating arcs and of political intrigue. I was recommended this book by a dear friend of mine and I was like, you know what? For someone who recommends books, like, basically for a living, I need to be better about reading books that people recommend to me.

[Tina]

Yeah, right.

[Hannah]

So I need to be better about it.

[Tina]

Called out.

[Hannah]

Truly, I feel. Yes. And I was like, man, I really, I really don't take people's book recommendations as much as I feel like I should. And so this was one of those moments where I was like, you know what? I'm gonna pick this book up right now. And it would be perfect because it's a fantasy, it's a series, and we're doing this out of our comfort zone episode. And so it would be a great time. Why not just do it? So I literally checked it out from the library that same day, and it ended up being a five star read for me. And it reminded me of why I love to read fantasy so much. I used to read read fantasy all the time before I, you know, started Instagram and was a public reader. This is the kind of fantasy novel that it was also a good reminder to be patient with my reading, which we talked about earlier, and really let myself, you know, sink into a story and take the time to do so. This is the kind of fantasy novel that really utilizes storytelling to build the world and the magic system for the reader. It's not going to be spelled out for you, so you're going to spend the first 20 to 25% of the book being like, what? Like, wait, why is that happening? Who is this person? She can travel through mirrors. Why is she doing that? And it was really hard for me to just trust the process, but before you know it, you're 50% in, you're flying through it. And not only do you kind of have a better grasp on what is happening, but you're, you know, trying to guess who you can trust and how is Ophelia going to make it out alive? And, you know, this jerk is terrible. And I just was having so much fun. The politics and the unfamiliar magic was just really interesting and intriguing and I was so engaged. And if I were to give this book one critique, it would be that I do wish Ophelia had a little bit more character development and that the characters in general had a little bit more development. In the beginning, I was almost frustrated because it kind of seemed like her only character trait that she had was that she was unattractive and clumsy and. But it didn't really feed into the like, not like other girls or those character traits actually kind of become an important part of her development. Outside of the fact that it was a little bit one dimensional, I still wish that she had been, you know, developed and fleshed out a little bit more. But it's also the first book and I'm hopeful that in the next three she gets more development, the characters get more development. I think that this one definitely focused on the world building and the politics and kind of setting up the plot. And I was definitely here for that. I'm a little worried that I've started a series again that is unfinished because now I'm going to have to wait. But maybe, maybe that's for the best. I will definitely be reading the second book soon and hopefully finishing the series when the rest of the books come out. And that is the Winter's Promise by Christelle Davos.

[Tina]

I'm glad you read that. I know. I was so happy you texted me yesterday that you were back in your fantasy era. And I was so happy to see it because I've been saying, so excited, bring them out. Get the people. Get the people what they want. So.

[Hannah]

Exactly.

[Tina]

You're the people in this case, right?

[Hannah]

Yes. Well, and hopefully some of our listeners, too. I do know that we have even some patrons and stuff that read a lot of fantasy. So, you know, if you're listening out there, Haley, I'm reading fantasy. I'm reading more fantasy. Okay.

[Tina]

Yay. Oh, I'm so glad. You know. And this could also. It's out of our comfort zone rating, but this could also easily be named the series Episode because I. My second book. Did you get another one? I sure did. It's called the Davenports by Crystal Marquis. And it is the reason that this one was on my list. I remember someone described it as Black Bridgerton. I said, great, I'm in. Even though I've never seen Bridgerton. I like the vibes of it. I like the idea of it. And my hold came in. I was like, you know what? This is going to be what I'm picking. It is historical YA and it's set in 1910. It's about the Davenport family.

[Hannah]

I'm just like, who is she?

[Tina]

I don't know who she is. And I don't know. I'm out of my comfort zone. But I found some good things.

[Hannah]

Yay.

[Tina]

And so it was out of my comfort zone, but it's set in Chicago in 1910. And I was like, I like this. I like, you know, sort of all of the Chicago, early Chicago elements. She talks about Clark street, she talks about State street. Like it was fun to. To be in older Chicago. But the Davenport family, they are immensely wealthy, and they made their fortune through the entrepreneurship of William Davenport, a formerly enslaved man who founded the Davenport Carriage Company years ago. Now they live surrounded by servants, crystal chandeliers, and endless parties. And they are finding their way to love. You've got three siblings. Olivia is the older Davenport daughter, and she knows her place in life. She knows that her lot in life is to get married to the appropriate family, to be the good debutante that they set her up to be. But then she meets a charismatic civil rights leader named Washington. Dwight and sparks fly. Helen is the younger daughter, and she is much more interested in fixing things and falling in love. She likes to get her hands dirty. But Helen ends up falling in love with somebody in this book who is supposed to be getting engaged to her older sister. You also have their brother, their older brother, he has John. He is the going to be the heir to the family. It's a carriage company, though, and it's in 1910. And you're like, your fortune's gonna fall apart because you know that we're not in carriages today. The automobile boon is boom is coming. And so he is trying to convince his father that they should pivot and get into that market. You have the. The last character that they focus on is Amy Rose, who is their childhood friend turned maid to the Davenport sisters, who has ambitions and dreams of her own. And she is in love with the brother John. And this is the first book in the series. And it offers a glimpse into the period of African American history that I didn't know a lot about that a lot of people don't know about. But it is still a totally escapist read. It is inspired by a real life story of a family or a man named C.R. patterson and his family. He had daughters and that was like the author's jumping off point. And it's about these women and the brother and kind of familial expectations during this time period. But like, what happens if you fall in love with somebody. This one allowed me to escape right into their world, but still gave me depth. It still gave me, you know, the, the neighbors that why their. We get information about why their house was so set far away from their neighbors. It's not just because they're wealthy. It's because people didn't want to live close to the only black family in this, you know, gated neighborhood. You know, she gives us a lot of that history that I, again, was finding myself Googling. I love when that happened. I love their dad's story. I love their parents. And, like, it's. It's light, there's a ball. Who doesn't want to get dressed up for a ball? You know? And there's, like, intense looks across the room. It's, you know, you should be married to this one, not that one. I will say I got a little bit lost in some of the who's who because I did this fully on audio. I did not have a print copy of this, so I think it would be. It was fine. Once I got settled in, I think I would have maybe preferred to have a tandem read with this one so I could figure out who everybody is. And you also sort of. She did a good job helping you understand her. The. The parents and why they have these expectations for their children and sort of like why they set everything up. They work so hard to give them everything, and then to see their kids go off on their own in ways that, you know, they viewed as not supportive of their wishes. You get it? I don't know. And I. There was one quote that I love. Ain't nobody is just one thing, especially you. And you don't need no man to make your dream come true. Like, what an amazing sort of moment that happened in this novel. I liked it. And again, I'm wondering. I'm like, am I going to pick up more in this series? Because if so, I'm really having a crisis of conscience about who I. But overall, I'm very glad I read this. This book is the Davenports by Crystal Marquis, and so far, this was book one. Book two just came out recently. I actually thought there were more. Book 2 is called More than this, and I do believe it follows different people in the group. This is a bit of. There's a lot. There's a fair amount of romance, from what I recall. It's pretty closed door, in case you're curious about that. And it is what it is.

[Hannah]

It's a young adult, right?

[Tina]

Yeah, that's right.

[Hannah]

Yeah, that makes sense. And also, when you were naming all of the characters, I was like, oh, the brother and the dad. And then this person. It's. Oh, okay, so we're gonna get all of these people's romances, including the person whose engagement was probably broken and who's he gonna fall in love with next and all. I love that.

[Tina]

No, you're absolutely right. But I will say I love that the author left this. I feel the story is complete Like, I still wanna know what's gonna happen, but I'm not left. Like, oh, well, you left in the big part of the thing. Like, I feel like I got enough of a resolution to where I'm not uns.

[Hannah]

Yeah. I love romance companion series like that where you can read them as standalones, but if you've read them from the beginning, you get fun Easter eggs. Because it's like, oh, I remember this character from book one, and they were going through this hard time, and now they're getting this happily ever after or whatever. It's fun. I feel like that is the perfect way to do a series. Although I understand with other fantasy series it takes five books to tell a story. But I love a companion series too, where it's like, oh, I could read book one and then be fine.

[Tina]

Yeah.

[Hannah]

Well, guess what?

[Tina]

What?

[Hannah]

I'm bringing another series.

[Tina]

Okay.

[Hannah]

Wow.

[Tina]

We really did. That's bizarre.

[Hannah]

Every single book, I think in this episode, pretty wild. Okay, so I am bringing Pines by Blake Crouch. And this is. I think. I don't know if this was his debut series, but I do know it was one of his earlier novels and earlier series. I want to say that this was picked up by a publisher recently because some of his older books are getting, like, picked up by publishers now, and they were originally published independently. But anyway, on to the book. This one was such a surprise when. So Dustin recommended this book to me. And typically when he recommends books to me, they're usually books I would never pick up myself out of my comfort zone. But he really does know my taste really well, and they always end up being books I really like, so I really trust his recommendations. And this was again written by Blake Crouch back in 2012, and we follow a man who finds himself in a strange town after there has been some kind of accident. And that's really all we know. He wakes up super disoriented, and no one in this town wants to help him. And so he's, you know, going around trying to figure out what's going on, who are these people? Who is he? What is happening? And the longer he tries to find help, the more confusing everything gets. And I'm gonna leave it there because this is one of those books that's really fun to kind of know that you don't want to know a ton going into it. And it is extremely twisty. And it's just kind of like, oh, my gosh, this happened and then this. And, oh, you're just surprised the whole way through, which was so fun. And it's also very science fiction heavy, which I really loved. I don't consider myself a like seasoned science fiction reader, but I would say that this is like pretty, not like the three body problem science fiction heavy, but definitely like a little bit more on the sci fi side. And yeah, the narrative just really kept me on my toes with constantly wondering what the actual heck was going on. And every turn of the story was just a mind whirl. And what I loved the most about this is that the ending made complete sense but was totally impossible to guess. And I feel like that is really hard to do in a way that's not like, oh, and surprise, it was ghosts or like, oh my God. You know, it's so refreshing when an author can make the ending like, oh, like that actually. Like, if I were to go back, I could put all of those puzzle pieces together, but it was actually like really hard to guess what was going on. I had kind of some vague ideas about what was happening, but I don't think that it's probable that one could guess, like the entirety of what this story has in store for the reader as it all comes together. What I didn't love. And keep this in mind, like, I still loved this book, but, you know, I like to keep it honest. The writing isn't great. This is not Crouch in his dark matter era, although I even think with that one. It was definitely written pretty sparsely, which is similar to this. But I would say that this one isn't. Is even more like sparse and kind of bland with the writing. There are even like, like there are some odd sentences and the dialogue was super choppy. But I promise, if you can hold on to the really fun and exciting story, you'll get used to the writing and it'll start to not bother you because you're just going to be reading it so fast. Also, the protagonist is like super white dude with some serious white dude problems. He's like this kind of macho man. He comes in way too hot in some situations and you're just like, okay, got it, got it. You think you're awesome. And I was kind of rolling my eyes at him. But again, stay for the story the rest. Maybe let go a little bit. It was totally worth it, in my opinion. Not a favorite. Great escape. Just what I needed. I give it a thumbs up. And that was Pines by Blake Crouch.

[Tina]

I like it. I gave it a thumbs up. What more do you want?

[Hannah]

I gave it a thumbs up.

[Tina]

I think Jonathan read this book and I'm pretty sure he read he Might have read the whole series and I think he enjoyed it.

[Hannah]

Oh, okay. Yeah. I don't know. I will say too. And I get like, I'm not a series person. This was one of those books where like, so Dustin read it also and he's like, I'm not finished. Like, I'm totally fine with how it ended. I'm not gonna continue on with the series. I might. But I do think that it is one of those ones where like, if you don't like series and you've been avoiding like a series like this, where you're like, I'm gonna have to read all of the other ones. I also could stop it here and be like, that was a cool story. I think it'd be interesting to kind of figure out what happens next. But I do think that it's one that can also kind of stand on its own. So if you're intimidated by series, this is really short. I think that you could read just this one and be like, that was fun and wild.

[Tina]

Yeah. I like Blake Crouch. I haven't read him in a couple years. I didn't read his most recent one. But I love Dark Matter is one of my all time favorite books.

[Hannah]

So good.

[Tina]

I'm gonna wrap this show up with my shelf edition. And I was in the theme, I was in the mode of out of my comfort zone. So I'm bringing one that's slightly out of my comfort zone. It's called Black Woods, Blue sky by Awyn Ivy. And this one is said to be. People might know her from the book the Snow Child. This one is a reimagining of Beauty and the Beast that asks the question, can love save us from ourselves? This one comes out on February 11th in 2025, and it's about Birdie. She is a single mother, but she's keeping it together. She has to for her daughter. And she is a waitress at an Alaskan roadside lodge. But it's a tough town to be a single mother in. But her daughter never goes hungry. She does remember happier times. Trout fishing with her grandfather and hiking in the tundra. Being free in the world of nature. Arthur Nielsen is a soft spoken recluse with scars on his face who brings Emmeline back to safety when she gets lost in the woods. So her daughter gets lost in the woods and this recluse brings her back. He sort of speaks with a strange cadence, appears in town only at the change of seasons and most people avoid him. But for Birdie, he represents everything she's ever longed for. He lives in a cabin in the mountain on the far side of the Wolverine river and tells Birdie about the caribou, marmots and wild sheep that share his untamed world. She falls in love with him and the land. And against warning of those who care about her, she moves to his isolated cabin. She and her daughter are alone with Arthur in a vast wilderness, miles from everything. But she is prepared. She's can start a fire and cook on a wood stove. Has her rifle.

[Hannah]

Is she prepared to fall in love?

[Tina]

I don't know. I know because I'm thinking, I'm like, is this the whole story? What's going to happen? In the beginning, it is idyllic. But soon she realizes she wasn't prepared for what lies ahead. Because Arthur harbors a dark secret unlike anything she's ever imagined. And she learned that the Alaska wilderness is a mysterious and dangerous thing. So it's a life and death story about the love between a mother and daughter and about the lore of a wild life. I don't know. I'm curious. Gotta see where this goes. I'm sure it's gonna be well written, but this book is Blackwood's Blue sky by Ewin Ivy.

[Hannah]

I did not know that she had a new book coming out. I was reorganizing my bookshelves this past week and the Snow Child is one that I pulled off my shelf that was kind of like hidden in the back and I had forgotten I had it. And I was like, I wanna put this on my, like, immediate PR shelf because it's a book that I keep putting off that I think I'll really like. So the Snow Child is one that. Wait, did you say you've read it?

[Tina]

I have not read it, no. But I know a lot of people have. It's obviously really popular.

[Hannah]

Yeah, a lot of my friends have read this one and. Or read the Snow Child and really liked it. So I didn't know she was coming out with a new one. That's exciting. So my shelf edition is one that I. I don't have it yet, but I really want it. And I'm stalking Netgalley, like every day because it comes out in May. And that's One Golden Summer by Carly Fortune. She's now coming out with a book kind of in again this Panion series. Although I don't think she's calling it a series. Like, when I look on Amazon right now, it doesn't say that it's like book four, but most of these books kind of do fall in like, the Same world. And this one definitely has a character from the first book. It's his romance. And this is, if you've read every summer after. This is Charlie, who's the brother of the hero in the first book. This is Charlie's love story. So let me tell you about it. Good things happen at the lake. That is what Alice's grandmother says, and it's true. Alice spent just one summer there at a cottage when her Nan was 17. And this. This is where she took that photo. The one of the three grinning teenagers in a yellow speedboat. The image that completely changed her life. But now Alice lives behind a lens, and as a photographer, she is most comfortable on the sidelines, letting other people shine. However, lately, she has really been itching for something more. And when her nan falls and breaks her hip, Alice comes up with a plan for them both. And that is to spend another summer in that magical place, Barry's Bay. But as soon as they settle in, their peace is disrupted by the roar of a familiar yellow boat and the man who is driving it. And that is Charlie Florek, who was 19 when Alice took his photo from afar. And now he is all grown up, and he is a shameless flirt, and he manages to make her nan laugh. And Alice longs to be 17 again when life was simpler and when taking pictures was just for fun. Charlie is a balm for Alice's soul, but she is starting to panic, and she is beginning to worry for her heart because love sounds scary. And, you know, I'm just gonna go out on a limb here and guess that these two fall in love, and I'm here for it. And I just. I loved Charlie from book one. He's kind of involved in, like, something pretty scandalous that happens in that book, and I think it made a lot of people not like him. But, like, in general, if you take that, you know, moment out and just him as a character, like, he's your typ. Golden retriever, like, can't take anything seriously. Funny guy. And I tend to like those heroes in romances, so I'm excited to see him shine in this one. And that is One Golden Summer by Carly Fortune.

[Tina]

Oh, well, I look forward to hearing about that over the summer because I know that's such a loved grouping collection of books.

[Hannah]

Yes. And that comes out on May 6. I said. I mentioned that it came out in May, but It comes out May 6, and you betcha I pre ordered it.

[Tina]

So. Nice. All right, well, how fun was this? I'm glad we got a chance to do this. But that is it for today. We thank you for spending a part of your day with us. Links to all the books mentioned can be found in the show notes. If you enjoyed today's episode, you can help us by following us wherever you listen by leaving a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us get our show out to new listeners and grows our audience. And don't forget if you would like access to exclusive bonus content and community, you can join us us for $5 a month on patreon.com booktalk Etc.

[Hannah]

If you'd like to connect with us you can email us@booktalk etcmail.com you can also connect with us both at booktalk etc on Instagram and tinabrec and hannahandpickedbooks. Talk to you next week. And in the meantime, remember, everything's better with books. And then I have no, I have no natural segue.

[Tina]

Oh, I thought you were. I was like ready. And then we move on to talk about books.