Eliana Ramage on Writing Queer and Indigenous Stories in the September Reese's Book Club Pick

Summary

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Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club

Episode: "Eliana Ramage on Writing Queer and Indigenous Stories in the September Reese's Book Club Pick"

Date: September 30, 2025
Host: Danielle Robay
Guest: Eliana Ramage (author of To the Moon and Back)

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Episode Overview

This episode features a candid, inspiring conversation between Danielle Robay and Eliana Ramage, author of the September Reese’s Book Club pick To the Moon and Back. The discussion centers on writing queer and Indigenous stories, the complexity of family and belonging, and the creative process behind a sweeping saga that traverses generations, geography, and even space. Ramage opens up about her own Cherokee identity, the intentional crafting of her characters, and the interplay between lived experience and literary fiction. The conversation is rich with insights for readers and writers alike, exploring themes of queerness, family, ambition, heritage, and what it means to belong.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Back-to-School Vibes & Writerly Habits

• School Supply Obsession (05:41)
  • Eliana and Danielle bond over a shared love for school supplies, with Eliana revealing her continued adult affection for colored index cards—used to track story threads in her writing.
    • Quote: “I am obsessed with colored index cards that you can cut into tiny little pieces for storyboarding... when you see the pink sliver of index card, you know that you're tracking the love story aspect of the book.” (Eliana Ramage, 06:29)

2. Literary Themes: Family, Identity, Queerness, and the Cosmos

• Most Natural Threads (07:24)
  • Eliana reflects on the deep entwinement of family and queerness in her storytelling.
    • Quote: “I think that when I was writing it, I was not out when I started it, and I was when I finished it. One of the biggest things I learned...was how good the queer community is at thinking about family.” (07:24)
• Difficult Story Choices (08:39)
  • The love story between Steph and Della was the hardest thread to resolve, particularly wanting to "do right by" Della after her difficult childhood.

3. Research: From Space to Science

• Approach to Researching Space (09:34)
  • Eliana notes the intimidation of researching space for the novel, focusing on story before deep-diving into scientific details.
    • Quote: “I told myself that I wasn't allowed to go deep with a particular setting... until the story felt first arrived in a place where I needed it to.” (09:54)
  • Surprise at gaining more inspiration from “the memoirs of scientists” (not just astronauts), especially Lab Girl.

4. Writing for the Self—and Others

• Writing to the Past Self (11:28)
  • Eliana initially wrote for her younger self, seeking to reassure herself amid uncertainty.
    • Quote: “Anything in this book has to feel true to my past self, and it has to feel true to whoever I am as I'm writing it.” (12:57)
• Hope for Readers (13:10)
  • She hopes queer and Indigenous readers see themselves reflected and feel connected to a broader human story.

5. Messy, Relatable Protagonists & Family Drama

• Building Steph’s Character (19:33)

  • Steph is intentionally “infuriating and lovable”; Eliana aimed for empathy even when disagreeing with her choices.
    • Quote: “I wanted to understand her as someone who was searching for her place, and she was searching for her place as a Cherokee person and as a queer person...” (19:54)
  • The early scene of Steph in a school play about the Trail of Tears underscores her struggle to find her identity.

• Family Drama, Universality, and Literature (21:47)

  • Danielle and Eliana discuss why family drama is such a central, compelling theme in books and TV.
    • Quote: “They are trying so hard to love each other, they share so much, and at the end of the day... they're moving in two different directions. That tension was really interesting to me.” (22:37)

6. Cherokee Identity and the Meaning of Home

• Growing Up Indigenous in Tennessee (23:35)

  • Eliana shares her experience as a Cherokee woman raised in Nashville—not on the reservation—highlighting her parents’ intentionality and storytelling.
    • Quote: “That Cherokee identity was really, really nurtured for me in a way that, like, I didn't have to think about it.” (23:44)
  • Teaching her own daughter the Cherokee language as a new mother.

• Authenticity and Indigenous Storytelling (27:02)

  • Reflects on feeling pressure to retell traditional Cherokee stories, but ultimately embracing authentic contemporary narratives.
  • Inspired by shows like Mohawk Girls for depicting Indigenous women with messy, modern lives.

7. Hallmarks of Cherokee Storytelling

• Storytelling Elements in the Novel (27:02)
  • Discussion of cyclical, origin-centered Cherokee storytelling, and how Eliana’s work draws from familial oral traditions.

8. Book Recommendations & Literary Inspirations

• Indigenous Nonfiction Recs (36:48)
  • We the Generations: Long Fight for Justice on Native Land by Rebecca Neagle
  • Nothing More of this Community Power and the Search for Indigenous Identity by Joseph Lee ("brilliant" dive into belonging & Indigenous identity)
    • Quote: “Because this book is fiction, the characters are wrestling with them, but they don't get to go too deep in a way that would distract from the story.” (36:55)

9. The Enduring Theme of Belonging

• Personal Story: The Lost Generation (38:51)
  • Eliana shares her grandfather’s story—born in the historical gap when Cherokee Nation was dissolved and later reconstituted—illustrating the resilience of identity and belonging even in displacement.
    • Quote: “For so many of us, we want to continue our stories. We want to pass down what matters to us.” (41:07)

10. Rapid-Fire "Speed Read" Segment (41:54)

• One literary trope to ban forever: “It was all just a dream.”
• Desert island author: “Kylie Reid.”
• Most-gifted book: “Before the Mango Ripens” by FFYJ Kurian.
• First book kept her up all night: “Ella Enchanted.”
• Book she wishes she’d written: “Show Don’t Tell” by Curtis Sittenfeld.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Queerness and Family:
  “I think that when I was writing it, I was not out when I started it, and I was when I finished it. And one of the biggest things I learned in that process was how good the queer community is at thinking about family...there’s such an openness and an intentionality to creating and really nurturing those connections.” (Eliana Ramage, 07:24)

• On Research Anxiety and Storytelling:
  “I told myself that I wasn't allowed to go deep with a particular setting or a particular aspect of space or even science until the story felt first arrived in a place where I needed it to.” (09:54)

• On Belonging:
  “I think it's like the center of how I understand the universe and how I understand people and what we're doing here.” (38:51)

• On Intergenerational Identity:
  “He never forgot...it was central to his understanding of himself...for so many of us, we want to continue our stories. We want to pass down what matters to us.” (41:07)

• On the Power of Storytelling:
  “I credit my interest in stories to my parents in two different ways. It kind of depended on who was doing the night routine. My mom would read us books...my dad would tell stories of his childhood in the mountains in Kentucky.” (28:35)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & School Supplies: 05:20 – 06:29
• Major Book Themes: 06:57 – 08:35
• Writing Challenges (Love Story): 08:39 – 09:34
• Space Research & Writing Process: 09:34 – 11:28
• Audience - Who the Book is For: 11:28 – 13:10
• Protagonist's Messiness: 19:33 – 21:47
• Family, Drama, Culture: 21:47 – 23:35
• Cherokee Identity & Parenting: 23:35 – 27:02
• Cherokee Storytelling Hallmarks: 27:02 – 29:27
• Book Recommendations: 36:48 – 38:41
• On Belonging & Family History: 38:51 – 41:07
• “Speed Read” Quickfire Q&A: 41:54 – 42:47

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Tone and Style Notes

The conversation is intimate, thoughtful, and empowering—balancing literary analysis with personal reflection and voice. The tone is warm, encouraging, and insightful, with both Danielle and Eliana inviting listeners to consider how story connects not just to culture but to the heart of self-understanding and community.

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Conclusion

This episode of Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club offers an enriching and nuanced look at Indigenous and queer storytelling through the lens of Eliana Ramage’s debut. Listeners come away with a deeper appreciation of how narratives shape and sustain identity, the significance of chosen and inherited family, and the ways in which literature offers a lifeline across generations. For readers interested in diverse, intersectional, and emotionally vibrant stories, Eliana’s work—and this episode—offer both guidance and inspiration.

Transcript

[Eliana Ramage]

This is an I Heart Podcast.

[Danielle Robay]

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[Danielle Robay]

Club is presented by Apple Books. Hey Bookmarked listeners. Before we dive into today's conversation, I have some really exciting news to share. It is almost time for the gathering of the brightest female founders, thinkers, writers and creatives at shineaway. Shineaway is more than an event. It's a two day celebration of connection, creativity and the power of women's stories. I've been lucky enough to go since its inception, so this is our third year and this year's programming invites you to step into a world of joy and depth and discovery, surrounded by voices that are shaping culture and truly shifting conversations. Talent announcements are now live and we have an amazing author lineup for you. You can check them out on Reese's Book Club's Instagram, but I just want to highlight a few for you. We're going to have Rainbow Roll, Temby Locke, and bookmarked guest Regan Revord. If you're looking for a little bit of Inspo outside of your favorite authors, get ready to be amazed by panels like morning show star Karen Pittman, empowerment speaker Chelsea Gooden, founder Lizzy Mathis. I'm personally so excited for so many women. Mariska Hargitay, Chrissy Teigen, Jen Hatmaker, Yvonne Orgy, and how about Mailin Ackerman and Brittany Snow? Did any of you watch Hunting Wise? Okay. Tickets are selling so fast, so buy yours now. Hi, I'm Danielle Robe and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. So earlier this month we checked in with Eliana Ramage, the author behind the September Reese's Book Club pick on her very first pub day. I'm so excited to be back with Eliana today to get into all the juicy deets of her novel to the Moon and Back. This family saga takes us across decades, across states, and even into outer space. And it asks questions that all of us have wrestled with. Is home a place or a person? How do you look towards the future.

[Eliana Ramage]

While carrying your past?

[Danielle Robay]

And what price Are you willing to pay for achieving your goals? We're getting into all of that and more. You know you're in the right place. So let's turn the page with Eliana Ramage. Eliana, welcome back to the club.

[Eliana Ramage]

Thank you. Exciting to be back.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, we're excited to have you back because when I spoke to you, I think it was basically the end of summer. Now it's fall, it's back to school season. And I heard you're obsessed with school supplies.

[Eliana Ramage]

Yes, it's the best part of fall. Like, even as a non student who's not even getting school supplies in the fall, like, the school supplies are in the air.

[Danielle Robay]

I have PTSD from going school supply shopping, and my mom would never let me get new stuff she was big into reusing, which in hindsight, I appreciate, but at the time, I really wanted new folders.

[Eliana Ramage]

The green one for science, the new stickers.

[Danielle Robay]

Anyways, when I heard you were obsessed with school supplies, I knew I had to ask you about the school supply that you are still obsessed with as an adult, because I will never get over gel pens.

[Eliana Ramage]

Ooh, that one's so much more fun. Okay, so I am obsessed with colored index cards that you can cut into tiny little pieces for storyboarding. And so each one of them will represent a different thread, whether it's, like a chapter or a novel or a story. Like, whatever it is, when you see the pink sliver of index card, you know that you're tracking the love story aspect of the book.

[Danielle Robay]

I like that you color code everything. That's so teacher of you. So if you had to boil to the moon and back down into keywords, I think it would be Sapphic, indigenous family saga in space. So out of all those threads, family identity, queerness, the cosmos, what felt the most natural and the most you to write? What parts poured out of you?

[Eliana Ramage]

I'm torn between family and queerness. And the reason I'm torn is because in this book, they're, like, the same thing. And what I mean by that is that we have a pretty central love story in this book between Steph and Della. And I don't think that that's the most LGBT aspect of the book. I think it's the way this book, it understands family, what it understands family to be. I think that when I was writing it, I was not out when I started it, and I was when I finished it. And one of the biggest things I learned in that process was how good the queer community is at thinking about family. And again, when I say that that could mean talking through, thinking through the decision to not have children or to have children in this way or in that way, or to think through. What does chosen family mean to you? Do you want to be, like, a really, really involved aunt? Like, there's so many. There's such an openness and an intentionality to creating and really nurturing those connections that sort of was always key to the relationships in this book.

[Danielle Robay]

Were there any threads that were difficult to work through?

[Eliana Ramage]

I spent the longest time thinking through and trying out different versions for where to take the love story. Because with these two characters, we have two characters who meet when they're very young. They really need each other. And sometimes that's good, sometimes that's not good. Sometimes we get through that, sometimes we don't. And particularly for Della. She had such a hard start in her early childhood with this contested adoption case and all the ways that her story was told for her. I just felt like if there was one character I needed to do right by, it was to sort of, like, shepherd Bella to some kind of place where whatever happened with her, like, whatever she felt in the moment, if we fast forward her way into the future, a much older version of her, I wanted her to feel at peace with the direction in which she decided to take her life.

[Danielle Robay]

One of the things I was thinking about reading this is that the amount of research that you must have done about space seems like a huge undertaking. It's famously infinite. But I am curious what that process looked like for you. Where did you even begin?

[Eliana Ramage]

Where I started was thinking that I needed to learn everything there is to know about space. And that's like, such a classic place where people will struggle is feeling like, oh, I can't write this, and I can't give space to what I really need to give space to, which is the relationships and the connections between these characters until I am, you know, an astrophysicist. So I had a few solutions. One is, I told myself that I wasn't allowed to go deep with a particular setting or a particular aspect of space or even science until the story felt first arrived in a place where I needed it to. So, for example, I learned a lot about this Mars Simulation Project, but I didn't know I was going to need to learn about it until the story took itself to the Mars Simulation Project. I also read the memoirs of astronauts, but I was surprised by how extra helpful it was to read the memoirs of scientists.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, interesting.

[Eliana Ramage]

Yeah. There's one I really liked called Lab Girl, and I realized that astronauts they don't spend that many hours of their lives in space. They're primarily scientists. So I wanted to learn more about that. And then the last thing that I'll say is that I really, really leaned on other people. I had a biologist who read the bio parts from college, and there was an astrophysicist who was kind enough to correct my mistakes.

[Danielle Robay]

Who did you write to the moon and back for?

[Eliana Ramage]

When I set out to write it, I was writing what I wanted to hear at the time. So I thought it was going to be a really fast and simple and straightforward story of ambition. Like, you want to write a book and you're, like, 20, and you write it. So that was the original intention, and it wasn't that at all. And I'm really, really glad it wasn't, because as I got farther in the story and life got more complicated, and the book just expanded more and more and more outwards. When that happened, I came to think of it more as, like, I'm writing to my younger self, to my past self. I'm writing kind of a reassurance that those feelings of uncertainty are okay. So I eventually got to the point a few years in where I was like, anything in this book has to feel true to my past self, and it has to feel true to whoever I am as I'm writing it. But now that I know how much we all change and that that change continues, I can't ask myself to write it towards a future self because I don't know what the future is gonna look like. Like, if I read this in 10 years and some of the ideas, like, if they no longer feel true to me, then I'm telling myself, like, that's. I want that to feel like a good thing.

[Danielle Robay]

Is there a part of you that wrote this story for a person or a young girl who felt exactly the way you did? And if so, what did you want them to take from the story?

[Eliana Ramage]

So the answer to the first question is yes. Maybe not at first, because at first I was so full of, like, just ambition, just excitement about, like, do this project. Get it done. That it was like a slow unraveling of a story of discovery for Steph and for myself. And then your second question was, what would I want them to take from it? I hope that reader would be left with the feeling of what it means to belong and all the different versions of connection between people that make a family and what that looks like in this story. We see that in so many different ways. We have mother and daughter stories. We have chosen family and tribal nation. And again, that expands outwards. That's like a never ending thing, that connection we feel to one another. So my main thing I hope is that a reader would understand themselves as part of greater whole, as an individual who's shaped by connection and that with that feeling like understanding themselves as part of humanity, as this group that's always been shaped by connection, they would feel pushed to act on behalf of future generations.

[Danielle Robay]

Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read, or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You you can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current Pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton. Joggers or Sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak. A story that spans generations, forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. The fabric of our lives. Learn [e-mail].

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Malcolm Glabel here. I recently recorded the first episode of Smart Talks with IBM, where I learned how AI agents are joining AI assistants as a major productivity tool. Lets start with AI agents. AI agents can reason, plan and collaborate with other AI tools to autonomously perform tasks for a user. Brian Bitzel, an expert from IBM, gave me an example of how a college freshman might use an AI agent As a new student.

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You may not know how do I deal with my health and wellness issue. How many credits am I going to get for this given class? You could talk to someone and find out some of that, but maybe it's a little bit sensitive and you don't.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Want to do that, bissell told me. You could build an AI agent, a resource for new students that helps them navigate a new campus, register for classes, access the services they need, and even schedule appointments on their behalf, which in turn buys them more time to focus on their actual schoolwork.

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We can see patterns of how agents and assistants can help employees and customers and end users be more productive automate workflows so they're not doing certain types of repetitive work over and over again and streamlining their lives and making data more accessible to them 24 hours a day.

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[Danielle Robay]

So Steph is your protagonist and she makes some messy choices, Eliana, sometimes some really bad ones. And you kind of want to reach through the page and just like yell at her sometimes even. But somehow you're still rooting for her. And I'm wondering how you pulled that off. How do you write a character who's infuriating and lovable?

[Eliana Ramage]

I secondly infuriating. It was important to me that even if I didn't agree with her, I wanted to understand her. I wanted to understand all of the characters in this book across different parts of their lives. With Steph, it helped me to understand her as someone who was searching for her place, and she was searching for her place as a Cherokee person and as a queer person who didn't have models for what that would look like to become an adult. Who's a queer adult, a Cherokee and adult, or like an astronaut. One place that that became really clear to me was this scene early ish in the book where Steph is a kid and she auditions for this school play that's like written by the children. And it's a really, really, like melodramatic kind of insane play about the Trail of Tears. Of course, no boys audition, and she gets to play the husband of her big crush, who's a girl. So she and her big crush are like, in love on stage and they're kissing behind the curtain after the play and they're just. She's so happy. But what sticks out to me and what really hit me after I had written that scene was that the only way Steph was able to live out that identity at that point in her life was through this queer future that was set in an imagined past. I think that got me thinking about how stories can across generations. It got me thinking about how heritage can be a lifeline and what Steph was trying to do in that moment. Sometimes she does it successfully over the course of her life, sometimes she really, really doesn't, is to write herself into a story that includes her.

[Danielle Robay]

There's a quote early on in the book where Steph dreams of how nice it would be to, quote, be an astronaut, to be myself without the weight of everything that came before. And that Idea of wanting to be weightless is so alluring, and yet there is this tension in the book. Because Steph would actually benefit from some grounding. Anyone reading this is gonna think about their own familial complications. Why can't we escape family drama? We can't.

[Eliana Ramage]

We really can't. But it makes literature.

[Danielle Robay]

I know. It's like a universal. We can all connect to it in some way. Do you have any idea of why you think we're drawn to them? I think of succession. Every TV show that has family drama at the center of it really makes an impact on culture.

[Eliana Ramage]

I completely agree. You know, whether it's books or TV or movies, those are the stories that I'm drawn to. And even in real life, I wouldn't love to. To hear a friend of a friend's like, what's going on with your family? I need to hear these stories, even if I'm not involved. Part of what's interesting to me was this idea that with Steph and her mother, for example, they are trying so hard to love each other, they share so much, and at the end of the day, when it comes to their maybe similar core values and then take that next step with them, they're moving in two different directions. That tension was really interesting to me. More interesting, of course, than if two strangers disagreed.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, I want to dive into the tension between the two sisters. So Steph and Kayla really embody this duality of experience when it comes to connecting with your culture. Kayla embraces it, and Steph wants to run from it.

[Eliana Ramage]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

So you are a Cherokee woman who grew up in Nashville and not on the reservation in Oklahoma. What was it like growing up indigenous in Tennessee?

[Eliana Ramage]

So this is something that I didn't appreciate until I grew up. And by grew up, I mean until I left home, I went to college. I didn't realize, even though definitely we were not living around other Cherokee people, just in terms of Native people in general. I was at a school with 1600 kids, and there were three native students. So even though that was the environment, that Cherokee identity was really, really nurtured for me in a way that, like, I didn't have to think about it. It was like I lived in a house where not even just Cherokee identity, our family. My parents were intentional about storytelling, about sharing so much about our family and where we had come from on both sides. And that gave me this foundation that was wonderful and kind of opened my eyes once I left that house to the idea that now you know what's next. Like, now I'M in charge of my own identity moving forward. And I sort of appreciated the gift afterwards.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, when we spoke last month, you talked about how you were sharing the language with your seven month old daughter, who's now eight months old. So it sounds like you're trying to sort of plant the same.

[Eliana Ramage]

I am. And what was unexpected for me is how much the journey of this book correlates with that journey of different waves of how I think through Cherokee identity for myself. So I talked about the childhood and I talked about when I got to college. What I didn't say is when I said, what next? There was a bit of anxiety, like, what is it gonna look like? Or what is it supposed to look like for me to now, like, go forth in my adulthood as a Cherokee person? Some of the ways I was asking myself that were inauthentic, like the anxiety that maybe I needed to learn how to weave baskets, when that's never been a way that I connect. But I will say that it wasn't a ridiculous question because when we ask ourselves things like that, then it makes us hone in on what does really matter. And that was when I started getting more interested in learning again, like, very little of the language that has come to mean something to me. And as a writer, my way in was exploring these different characters and saying to myself, like, if I have all of these different Cherokee women and I'm in my early 20s and I just give them space to see where they take that and how they show up in the world, that ended up giving me a lot of these different possibilities. And so I was surprised in a good way when the baby was born to realize very quickly I had a lot more understanding for the mom character, for how what she was trying to pass along wasn't confining but enriching. And that if I want my daughter to feel free, like these characters to, like, take who she is and, you know, go forth wherever that takes her, hopefully not mars. I first need to provide what I can of that foundation.

[Danielle Robay]

So I was looking up the hallmarks of Cherokee storytelling to see if there were sort of any touchstones that I could recognize between your novel and, like, sort of these hallmarks of indigenous storytelling. And for Cherokee storytelling, it said there's a lot of origin stories that explain natural phenomena, animals, diseases, healing plants, balance, which are stories about harmony with nature, community and self. Cyclical structure mirrors natural cycles, not linear plots. Community, purpose, humor as teaching, animals as teachers. And this was very specific. But Rabbit the trickster, so clever, greedy, often punished lessons through humor. Do any of those strike you as something that showed up in your novel?

[Eliana Ramage]

The first thing that stood out to me is the word storytelling. And it reminds me of how when I talked about that period of anxiety, of questioning in my early 20s, there was a period where I thought, do I need to be taking Cherokee traditional stories and retelling them in a contemporary manner? Which is a wonderful thing for anyone to want to do? But again, that wasn't my way in, and that wouldn't have felt authentic to me and what I cared about. So I was really, really happy about 10 years ago when this show, Mohawk Girls, came on the air because it was this really, really messy show, billed as the Mohawk Sex in the City, where these Mohawk women were having messy relationships and their friendships were falling apart. And it was so exciting to me to see these indigenous women navigating the same world that I was living in. I also want to say that when he talked about storytelling, I credit my interest in stories to my parents in two different ways. It kind of depended on who was doing the night routine. My mom would read us books, and when I got older, I would ask her to, like, workshop my stories for me when I was really young. And that was amazing. My dad would tell stories of his childhood in the mountains in Kentucky. And so I kind of was getting constant input of stories and what they can do and why they matter.

[Danielle Robay]

So I love asking our guests what they've bookmarked this week. It can be a weird fact, a fun quote, something you saved on Instagram, something you texted your best friend about. Eliana, what have you bookmarked this week?

[Eliana Ramage]

I bookmarked the last six minutes of the audiobook for Claire Lombardo's Same as It Ever Was, because I've been listening to it while driving around, and I've already read it in book form when it came out. I loved it the first time. Let's be clear, I loved it the first time. But the way I emotionally experienced it as a wife and as a mom, as someone who's just a little, tiny, tiny bit older than the first time, I just sat in the car and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed through the last five minutes and came inside the house and just sobbed and sobbed and sobbed. I was so, so moved by it. It's just a really, really beautiful ending in the way it holds us in a space of family and a relationship between two people.

[Danielle Robay]

Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to, or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read, or listen and enjoy it all on the go wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort, and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss, and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton joggers. Or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak, a story that spans generations. Forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the Fabric of Our Lives. Learn more at thefabricofourlives.com.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

Malcolm Gladwell here. I recently recorded the first episode of Smart Talks with IBM, where I learned how AI agents are joining AI assistants as a major productivity tool. Let's start with AI agents. AI agents can reason, plan, and collaborate with other AI tools to autonomously perform tasks for a user. Brian Bitzel, an expert from IBM, gave me an example of how a college freshman might use an AI agent as a new student.

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You may not know how do I deal with my health and wellness issue? How many credits am I going to get for this given class? You could talk to someone and find out some of that, but maybe it's a little bit sensitive and you don't.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

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We can see patterns of how agents and assistants can help employees and customers and end users be more productive, automate workflows so they're not doing certain types of repetitive work over and over again and streamlining their lives and making data more accessible to them 24 hours a day.

[Malcolm Gladwell]

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[Danielle Robay]

This book definitely hits intimately at mother daughter relationships. I'm sure you were mostly finished writing when you gave birth. Is there anything that you change now that you've been a mom? Are there any characters that you have more or less empathy for I definitely.

[Eliana Ramage]

Feel more empathy for the mother character now, but I wouldn't change her story. And part of that, I think, is a reflection of how long it took to write the book, how long it took to become a parent. There were many, many years of waiting in fertility clinics and sort of being in that emotional journey of becoming a parent before I was a parent. And that matters because it means that even when I was writing this book and I felt like I was really far from becoming a parent, I was still really interested in what it would mean to be a parent for myself and what it would mean for any of these characters, because it's not just Steph's mom, like any of these characters to form their families, the ones who choose to be parents, the ones who don't choose to be parents, and the ones who choose to be parents in ways that we might not expect at first.

[Danielle Robay]

I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you for some book recs. Are there any Indigenous authors that inspired you while writing this?

[Eliana Ramage]

Okay, so there's actually two nonfiction books that I think are really, really great companions to this book. One of them is called by the Fire we the Generations Long Fight for Justice on Native Land. It's by Rebecca Neagle. And. And if there are readers who are interested in specifically the history of removal and what that means for Cherokee Nation, like specifically Cherokee Nation today, then that's the book for them. I'm very excited about a book by Joseph Lee, and it's called Nothing More of this Community Power and the Search for Indigenous Identity. He's a really, really talented Equino Wampanoag journalist. And what I like about his book, besides just that it's brilliant, there are so many hyper specific issues of not just like this more symbolic idea of belonging, but like, what does it literally mean to be a Cherokee citizen or to be a citizen of another tribe or to not be? Like, who belongs, who doesn't? And when I say that, of course I mean in terms of a legal identity, a political identity, historical identity. Those are really, really thorny, very interesting to me issues. And because this book is fiction, the characters are wrestling with them, but they don't get to go too deep in a way that would distract from the story. I feel like, because he is a journalist and he has the freedom to ask that question of so many different tribes and so many different indigenous people all around the world, it's a fascinating deep dive that takes something you might just be like a little bit interested in. And it explodes it to make it much more complicated.

[Danielle Robay]

You've mentioned belonging so much in both of our conversations. What about belonging is at the heart or at the forefront of your mind?

[Eliana Ramage]

I think it's like the center of how I understand the universe and how I understand people and what we're doing here. Can I tell you a story about my grandfather, which is like a little context? Yeah, of course.

[Danielle Robay]

I would love that.

[Eliana Ramage]

So my grandfather on my mother's side was born in 1907. And that's significant because before that point, he would have been born in what was Indian Territory, but the nation was denationalized. And so when he was born, he was born an American citizen and not a Cherokee Nation citizen. It was like Cherokee Nation in that sense of what it was was gone. So from there, he ended up roaming the Southeast, living in all these different places for work. He was in Europe for World War II, transporting young men, like very young men to the front lines and coming back and just doing that. So he lived this life not where he was from. And he never forgot. It's not just that he never forgot Cherokee Nation, it's that it was central to his understanding of himself. And when he had three daughters, it was central to their understanding because that was something that mattered to him, and he made it very clear that he wanted to share that with them. So he died in the 1970s, and he died within a few months, I think, right before Cherokee Nation was reconstituted again. Like, it's not like the nation was dead. Like, as a political entity, it was reconstituted. And that means that what I now understand is he lived his life within this, what we could think of as a lost generation. Like, his whole life was in this gap of history where your political identity has been taken away. And for him specifically, he was. Today, the majority of Cherokee Nation citizens don't live in northeastern Oklahoma. He was not living at home, and he never went back. What that speaks to for me, when I think about belonging is how enduring it is to belong to your people, belong to your home. Your home doesn't have to be the same place forever. Cherokee people began in the southeastern US and now the government is in northeastern Oklahoma. I feel primarily moved when I think about his life and how much that mattered to him, how he was able to pass that down to the generation and then passed it down to me. Because outside forces, and this is definitely not just a Cherokee story, like outside forces can try to convince a people that they are not this or that. That doesn't matter. Like now you're American. But for so many of us, we want to continue our stories. We want to pass down what matters to us.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay? Now it's time to turn things up a notch. We are doing the speed read. So here's how it works. We're going to put 60 seconds on the cl and we're gonna see just how many rapid fire literary questions you can get through.

[Eliana Ramage]

Okay?

[Danielle Robay]

Are you ready?

[Eliana Ramage]

Okay, let's go.

[Danielle Robay]

Three, two. What is one literary trope you would ban forever?

[Eliana Ramage]

It was all just a dream.

[Danielle Robay]

Desert island author. Who are you reading for the rest of your life?

[Eliana Ramage]

Kylie Reid.

[Danielle Robay]

You have 10 minutes at a bookstore. Where are you going first?

[Eliana Ramage]

Just released. Fiction.

[Danielle Robay]

What's a book that you gift most.

[Eliana Ramage]

Often before the mango Ripens by FFYJ Kurian.

[Danielle Robay]

What fictional character do you secretly think you're most like?

[Eliana Ramage]

Ooh. Okay, in this book, I think I can be Adele, but I want to be an Nadia.

[Danielle Robay]

What's the first book you stayed up all night to finish?

[Eliana Ramage]

I think Ella Enchanted.

[Danielle Robay]

Do you ever peek at the last page first?

[Eliana Ramage]

No.

[Danielle Robay]

What's a book you wish you'd written?

[Eliana Ramage]

Show Don't Tell by Curtis Sittenfeld.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, that's a great one. Eliana. That's it. Thank you so, so much.

[Eliana Ramage]

Thank you. It's just a huge honor to be here.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, friends, before we wrap today's episode, I'm bringing back our monthly audiobook recommendation segment brought to you by Apple Books called Turn up the Story. Apple Books editors are always reading and listening, so they can bring you the best new books every single month, including brilliant new voices. This month, Apple Books editors are spotlighting Little Movements by Lauren Morrow. This gorgeously written debut novel is about navigating the intersection between life, creativity, and expectations. Lifelong dancer Layla has recently discovered her love of choreography. So when she wins a position at Briar House, a Vermont artist residency program, she's overjoyed and overwhelmed. Lauren Marrow elegantly explores the conflicts that come with Laila's once in a lifetime gift from scandals within the program to the strain it puts on her marriage. Not to mention Briarhouse's all white administration. Assuming that Layla's dance performance will directly reflect, quote, the black experience without even asking her, Mauro's vivid descriptions of the dances capture the artistry of movement so strikingly, it's almost like each piece plays out before your eyes as you're listening. There's so much to feel and discuss in this gem of a novel. It's sure to be a book club favorite for a limited time, you can get the audiobook of the little movements for just $9.99 only on Apple Books. And if you're curious about what inspired Morrow to write this tender hearted debut, you'll find that too. Head to Apple Co Debutlistens to listen in. And while you're there, don't miss the full collection of debut audiobooks that the Apple Books editors love, all chosen with bookmarked listeners in mind. And if you want a little bit more from us, come hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book Club on Instagram serving up books, vibes and behind the scenes magic. And I'm Danielle Robay, R O B A Y Come say hi and DM me. And if you want to go 90s on us, call us. Okay? Our phone line is open, so call now at 1-501-291-3379. That's 1-501291-3379. Share your literary hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't be shy, give us a ring. And of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your shows. Until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of hello Sunshine and iheart Podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robay. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez, Sarah Schleed and Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla, Kelly Turner and Ashley Rapoport are associate producers for Reese's Book Club. Ali Perry and Lauren Hanson are the executive producers for iHeart podcasts. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book, breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton leaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the Fabric of Our Lives. Learn more at the fabric of our lives.com Apple Books is the best way to read or listen to the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone and a heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club so you can discover every exciting pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set and track your reading goals and get great recommendations for your next read or listen. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co Reese that's R E E S E Applebooks to find out more.

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[Eliana Ramage]

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[Eliana Ramage]

Includes principal laws. Prepared by BlackRock Investments, LLC. Member Finraw. This is an iHeart podcast.