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Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Evil or Misunderstood? March’s Reese’s Book Club Pick Reimagines a Classic Fairytale
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- [00:01]
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B
I'm so happy to be back.
- [04:19]
A
I had the pleasure of talking with you earlier this month about your latest novel. It's your debut novel, Lady Tremaine. And before we get back into your book, I have to ask you for your advice because you're puzzle royalty. Okay. You are the co founder of Piecework, which is a jigsaw puzzle brand. I love puzzles. In the last few years of my life, I haven't had as much time to dedicate to them as I did during COVID But I need to know if you start your puzzles by doing the sides or you start in the middle. What does an expert do?
- [04:54]
B
Okay, well, before answering that, I have to say I've never heard puzzle royalty before. Thank you. If I am royalty, it is of a tin. I don't think the puzzle world is large, but I am always happy to chat puzzles and to talk to another puzzler. I have a puzzle set up in my living room, I'm really specific about it. I like to use puzzle trays, which, once you start using trays, you can't go back. There's no other way to do a puzzle. I'm very specific about it, but I love. There's no better way to end a day than, you know, I have maybe a half glass of wine and a little piece of chocolate and sit in front of my puzzle.
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A
But do you. Do you go, like, sides out, or do you start in the middle?
- [05:35]
B
Edges first, always.
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A
So if you're group puzzling, how do you feel about the person who has their own section?
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B
You know, no one's ever asked me about this before, but I do find myself getting, like, my feathers ruffled. And I love working on a puzzle socially, don't get me wrong, but I do. I have these feelings, like, if I've gathered the pieces for a certain section and then someone else works on them, there's, like, a little bit of disappointment. Not enough to voice, but. But I've. I've had that feeling before.
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A
I asked you that because I. I don't know that I can do a group project puzzle.
- [06:10]
B
I. I think it's a really nice social tool if you're at a family event and maybe you're with family members that you don't. You don't have as much in common with, or you feel differently about things that, you know, happening in the world, like, at least there's something to do and talk about between you. And. So I. I think puzzles are great. I've also. I bring them to dinner parties or, you know, a weekend away with friends.
- [06:32]
A
Okay, well, I want to find out how you applied the same brain, your puzzle brain, to your book. In our last conversation, you said the book is an untelling, not a retelling of Cinderella. I really loved that word. So there is something classic about the story that you felt needed an absolutely new perspective. What was the excuse, the pun? Missing puzzle piece to Lady Tremaine's story.
- [06:57]
B
You know, for me, it was really her interiority. I think readers love a complicated woman in books these days. But it felt like that particular character hadn't been examined in the same way. And she's really what came to me first, before the plot or anything else. I just. I had a really clear picture of her. Her voice, this house she was living in that, you know, she had stripped, sold her belongings and her jewels so that she could, you know, keep running her household. So that was the first. First idea that, you know, the rest
- [07:29]
A
was inspired by what I really found interesting about this is that Cinderella predates Disney by 2000 years, and there are hundreds of variants all over the world from different cultures. There are dozens of film adaptations. Off the top of my head, we have the Brandy version, the Hillary Duff version, the Selena Gomez version, the Camila Cabello version. What do you think speaks so universally to people in this story?
- [07:59]
B
I think it's filled with archetypes. I mean, you're right. Cinderella dates back to ancient Greece, probably earlier, but that's. The story of Rhodopis is the first one on record. There's two ways of looking at it. I think that there's, in some senses, the Western European versions of Cinderella, which I think inform our cultural perception of the fairy tale position. Marriage is a happy ending, but I think women needed marriage for security in earlier points in time. I find that to be outdated now. And I really wanted to create a happy ending that was more inclusive of different types of outcomes for people, and maybe that can include marriage, but I think there's so much more. If you give your characters agency, then it expands that possibility for them beyond just one really prescriptive version of it.
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A
In reading this book and then in talking like I had our previous conversation in my head while I was reading, and you said you felt so clear and so connected to the evil stepmother. I'm wondering if Cinderella the story started looking to you differently when you became a mom yourself.
- [09:16]
B
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I grew up enthralled with the animated version of Cinderella. It really informed my viewpoint of the world as a little girl, and I still love it. I mean, the set direction and the design of it is just magical. But becoming a mother of young girls and actually getting married myself, where I realized marriage isn't a finish line, it's actually the beginning of something. It's the start. And so that message that that's the ending I felt and that that's the best way to get to that ending, and that is the only happy ever after that is available to little girls. You know, all a confluence of all these things made me feel like, let's do a new version of the fairy tale, the one that I wish I had had and one that I'm really happy to give to my daughters.
- [10:14]
A
Well, we talked about this a few weeks ago, but you got the idea for this story while you were pregnant. You were caregiving, you were basically single parenting, and you wrote about a woman fighting for survival. I'm wondering if writing this was more therapeutic or more rebellious for you.
- [10:37]
B
Absolutely therapeutic. I think on multiple levels. You know, I was in a period of grief myself because my life had suddenly stopped looking like what I expected it to. And I should say my husband's doing well. And I think that's very important to share. Sometimes I forget to say that, but, you know, it was really hard to accept how quickly things had changed. And I think Lady Tremaine is in a similar position of, you know, similar to the Disney version that we all know. If you really think about the evil stepmother, she's been widowed twice over. She's had a lot of loss in her life, and so it made it easy to put myself in her shoes and think about what it feels like when your life looks so different than what you had signed up for.
- [11:31]
A
The book did make me start thinking about all the other characters that I had been told were villains over the course of my childhood. I kind of think you're giving villains a new name, a new perspective in your writing.
- [11:49]
B
I think the book is also an argument that Lady Tremaine's not a villain, and there are certainly villains out there. I'm not saying that all villains deserve a second look, but when you look at that character versus ones that are actively trying to harm people or take something, you know, she was really just a product of the world she lived in and the time she was in and trying to advocate, you know, for her children.
- [12:17]
A
I want to talk about the main character in your book, who. Her name is Ethel, which is Lady Tremaine. And she. She's a little scary, I'm going to be honest. She gives off strong momager energy. I feel like Kris Jenner has nothing on. Have you harnessed your inner Ethel to get things done at all?
- [12:41]
B
Oh, I think I can scare people a little bit, yes. I mean, I. I really relate to Ethel in a lot of ways. I. I think I felt connected to her. So I don't know what that says about me, but I think that answers your question.
- [12:54]
A
Well, in my mind, I. I had a few questions I was thinking about, which is, is she evil, or was she just married and exhausted? Was she mean, or was she just perennially disappointed?
- [13:06]
B
This is a personal. I think it's up for every reader to answer that for themselves, and that's the fun of it. But for me personally, I have a lot of empathy for her, and I even have a lot of empathy. Yeah, I have a lot of empathy for the other villain. There's multiple villains of this story, but the other female character that you can kind of come to see as a Villain. I haven't a deep seated empathy for her as well. Mm.
- [13:34]
A
There's this scene where she marches up to the castle as a commoner, demanding invitations to the ball. And then there's another moment where she orchestrates a chance meeting, quote, unquote, the prince. In some ways, I like that she's a woman that goes after what she wants. Did that feel sort of inspiring to you?
- [13:58]
B
Yes, because I think that's actually where I relate to her the least is I'm more cautious in my personal life and maybe hyper aware of what you should and shouldn't do in a way that I'm not necessarily proud of. But I really, I think it's important in a book when we're reading a narrative and engaging with it, you need to have a character who is taking action, whether or not it's the right action, you know, before they've learned their lessons. It's often not. But you, you need that to have a propulsive story that moves forward.
- [14:43]
A
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Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co reesapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple Co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current Pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. You mentioned the other women in the book. So we have Ethel, who is widowed and struggling, and then we have Queen Sigrid, who is the literal queen. And they're the two main mothers in the book, but they're also frenemies, which I really loved that. I like their relationship. There are two women going after the same goal but in very different circumstances. And it reminded me of Lady Bridgerton and Lady Featherington, who are. You're nodding. Who are two widows, both trying to marry their kids off, but through very different means. And if you resonated with Ethel, why provide this alternate foil? What is being revealed in their comparison?
- [20:19]
B
You know, it felt I really wanted to look at all different forms of relationships in a woman's life. And so you have Ethel's relationship with her found family, the people that live in her household, as well as her biological family. And I think female friendships are complicated. Or they can be. They're not always. And it just felt like a more realistic portrayal or way to show women's inner life. Also kind of showcasing Ethel as a villain or no longer a villain. It's really useful to have something to compare it to. You know what happens when maybe this is taken too far, because I think there are similarities between the two women, but you can see how they are sort of guided to different choices by their own internal values by the end of the book.
- [21:13]
A
And both of those are magnified by each other, which is so helpful.
- [21:17]
B
Yes, their dialogue was so fun to write. I mean, another interviewer described it as bitchy and I was like, I hadn't thought of that word. But I'm yeah, That's it. Yeah. These are two women, you know, bitching it out, and it's. It's kind of fun. It's got, you know, reality TV energy to it.
- [21:36]
A
Yeah, I agree with you. The Convos were very Real Housewives, I think for anybody who hasn't read it yet. Well, speaking of all of the different women's experiences in this book, there are barely any men in the book. Was that deliberate or just realistic?
- [21:55]
B
I wasn't deliberately excluding men, but I think I was de centering them from the story and what I wanted to say with them. But you have, you know, in the same way that Sigrid and Ethel are kind of foils, you get that with the men in the book, too. Like, we get to experience different versions of masculinity and how they show up in the women's lives. And so it still felt important to include them.
- [22:22]
A
Before we move on from the inner world of the book, I have to shout out one of my favorite characters. She could be my favorite character. Lucy the falcon.
- [22:30]
B
Oh, yeah, she's great.
- [22:31]
A
I thought that Lucy was a person at first because of how detailed the descriptions were. And then it took me a minute. I realized Lucy's a bird.
- [22:40]
B
Lucy is a bird. She's a peregrine falcon, but she's very personified.
- [22:46]
A
What did Lucy do as a bird that she couldn't do as a person for you? Like, why make her a falcon?
- [22:52]
B
You know, I think that was a reaction to. I wanted to give Ethel, Lady Tremain, more opportunities to interact with her environment and the world around her. And it's sort of traditional for these villain characters to have, like, a sidekick or a pet. And to me, the falcon made sense because I didn't. This character would never have a, you know, furry lap animal. She would have something that was useful and utilitarian. And that's what Ethel does, is she hunts with her bird to provide for her family. And it was the perfect kind of two sides of the same coin of it. She was able to go out there and provide, but she also has this kind of deep connection to the animal. And there's this symbolism of falconry is so deep. There's so much to work with there. So as soon as they had the idea, it was, you know, there was no other path to go down.
- [23:53]
A
What's the symbolism?
- [23:56]
B
I mean, they're used to symbolize all different kinds of things historically and in stories. A lot of regality and speed and a fierceness. But for me, there was something really interesting about them being birds of Prey. And, you know, there's definitely a theme of predation versus prey going on throughout the book, especially with what happens to the characters. And so it just really tied in to, I would say, the climax of the book itself.
- [24:28]
A
Yeah. So, Rachel, I ask every single author we have on here the same question, and I used to ask people what they have bookmarked this week. It could be a quote, it could be a song, but I decided to switch it up. So I'm hoping you'll be game. I want to ask you, what are you so obsessed with right now that you could write a book about it?
- [24:51]
B
Okay, so I have two answers to that. I. I'm already working on my second book, and it's. It's in a cowboy vein. So I've. I've gone deep into cowboy research, which has been really fun. But my latest weird hobby that makes me feel older than I am is that I've gotten into blue flow pottery, which is a Regency era. I probably have this wrong. Anyone who's actually into this is going to correct me, but this is a recent hobby. But I started collecting these blue and white plates, and because I'm. I want to put them up in my dining room. And so it's. It's just kind of fun to learn about something new and obscure. And it also. My mom collected a different. Certain type of plate when I was a kid, so maybe we just are, you know, destined to repeat our. Our patterns. But that's been a fun thing. I don't know that I write a whole book about it, but maybe I could pull them in as a prop.
- [25:46]
A
My mom always says that apple trees make apples, so I think it makes sense that you are also collecting plates.
- [25:51]
B
Yeah, here I am collecting plates. Yeah.
- [25:54]
A
Okay, well, I want to talk more about you and your background. I was so excited to hear that you have a master's in fiction from the University of Southern California. And over the years, there are short stories that have been sprinkled around that you've written, but a whole novel is a very different undertaking. What was the day that you decided to write this book? Who did you tell, and where did you begin?
- [26:21]
B
My pathway into writing started earlier because I had a book that I didn't sell. So, you know, that it was a longer journey than just starting this book. But when I decided to write Lady Tremain, it was. I think I had a sentence that I had written in a notebook from her point of view and her voice that I sat on for a couple of months at least, just marinating and Wondering when I was going to go back to that idea. You know, I wish I could remember the exact moment. I remember more clearly, like when I had first started working on it, and it was my husband, I thought I told first that I was going to do it. He's always been a big champion of my writing, so he encouraged me, thankfully. And here we are.
- [27:04]
A
That's so sweet. Did you begin with an outline? Did you begin diving into a chapter? What was your first step?
- [27:12]
B
So I've learned in the writing community, they talk about plotters versus pantsers, which I didn't know those terms, but a pantser is someone who writes by the seat of their pants and a plotter, someone who plans it all out. And I fall pretty squarely in between the two. I like to write my way in and learn the characters and really figure out what it is I have to say. And then once I have some words under my belt, I sit down and kind of chart out my path across the book, which involves some editing of what I have already. And that was exactly how I approached Lady Tremaine.
- [27:42]
A
Did you draw inspiration from other authors or books who took on, like, some of these classic retellings?
- [27:48]
B
You know, less retellings, to be honest. Helen MacDonald's H is for Hawk was really influential in the writing.
- [27:56]
A
I love that book.
- [27:57]
B
It's so beautifully written. It's about grief, and it's about falconry. And I had done a lot of research on falconry before I picked it up. I had taken a workshop and read, you know, 300-year-old falconry. But she brought it to life for me in a way that, you know, the way I wrote about birds in the book is completely indebted to her. And then I have my very cliche Jane Austen answer, which is, you know, Pride and Prejudice, you know, continues to be an influence over the years. And me and every other writer.
- [28:28]
A
Have you gone falconing?
- [28:30]
B
So I've done a workshop. I've held the bird and have them, you know, take off from my glove and come back to it, but that's the extent of it.
- [28:37]
A
Yeah, that's very cool. They're much larger and I would say scarier up close.
- [28:46]
B
They're. They're kind of like dinosaurs. I mean, when you're looking them in the eye and their. Their talons are so powerful and sharp, and it's really. There's something primordial about them, for sure.
- [29:01]
A
So I know that you said this is an untelling, not a retelling, but I am curious if you have A favorite retelling of Cinderella.
- [29:09]
B
I loved Ella Enchanted, the book, as a tween, and I loved Ever after as a teenager, the Drew Barrymore movie. So I think I would pick one of those. But I look at Cinderella as every version is a retelling because there's so many different versions and we don't really know where it originated.
- [29:28]
A
Yeah. And I guess when we think about them as films, every actress sort of brings their own spin to it and different energy.
- [29:36]
B
Yeah.
- [29:37]
A
Yeah. Rachel, I loved the imagery in the opening and closing lines of your book. They felt like two moments where you were speaking directly to me, directly to the reader. I want to start with the opening of the book. Do you mind reading it for us?
- [29:52]
B
Sure. I've been warned to be wary of strangers in the woods since I was a little girl. A person alone, unfamiliar, hidden in the dappled darkness, is not to be trusted. And certainly the woods can hide the sorts of people you'd rather not encounter. Outlaws and outcasts, gruesomely mutilated pariahs, those with fingers taken for thieving, lips and tongues cut up for lying, flesh rotting for submission to disease. But just as shadows serve to hide and disguise, they also provide privacy and solitude. And if you look carefully, beauty, the darkness of the woods offers a break from watchful eyes and rules to follow and stiffened skirts and the never ending etiquette of being a woman in the world for a few short hours of the day. I've always considered it a fair trade. Darkness for freedom.
- [30:46]
A
I got chills again. When you read it. Darkness for freedom. It feels. Well, instead of me telling you how I feel, how do you feel? How did you feel when you wrote it?
- [30:58]
B
When I'm writing, I feel like I have an internal metronome and it's almost like writing music. I feel like there's a certain pattern or rhythm and message I'm trying to get across. And I almost feel like a translator in a way of getting that down onto paper. And I know when I don't have it quite right, and sometimes I'm just searching for the right words to hit that rhythm. So the rhythm of this feels right to me.
- [31:32]
A
There are a lot of points in this book where your writing felt lyrical. And so it makes so much sense to me now that you said that.
- [31:39]
B
Thank you.
- [31:40]
A
Yeah. That's a beautiful way of describing it. I think this book feels like a fable. I know you wanted it to feel real, so I don't mean that as.
- [31:50]
B
No, I'll take that. Thank you.
- [31:52]
A
But I say it in the sense that I think there is something to be learned. And I'm wondering what you are warning the reader about as they venture into this story.
- [32:05]
B
You know, there's. I think there's so many messages in this book and I'm kind of laugh at myself because I thought I was being really subtle about them. But as more and more people read the book, it's become very apparent that it's not at all subtle. So the joke's on me. But I think one of the biggest messages in the book, or something that I warned the reader about from fairly early on is just this idea of performance. You know, so much of femininity, being a woman or mother in the world is about what we project, how we perform, you know, living up to the expectations of the world around us. And I would like for myself, my girls, you know, any. Any woman that this resonates with, I would like to. For them to feel a bit of permission and taking a step backwards from that and listening to what comes from within versus what is prescribed from without.
- [33:02]
A
Rachel, I think so many great writers have universal takeaways and so you were successful in the subtlety.
- [33:09]
B
Thank you.
- [33:11]
A
And speaking of insides and outsides, the last line makes me think of that. Will you read the last line for us? This is truly my favorite line in the book.
- [33:23]
B
It's also my favorite line in the book. And I encourage people to not read ahead when I say that because I think it lands so much better when you get there on your own. And it also feels personal. It feels like a message for me to little girls into my little girls. You do not need to be afraid. You do not have to be good. You do not need to hide your fleshy interiors behind a carapace of frills and lace. Life is not meant for measurement. There is but one beat to heed. Live like this and you will know with certainty you are the scariest thing in the woods.
- [34:07]
A
How did you think of that last sentence?
- [34:12]
B
I thought of it before I wrote it, like months before. And I was writing towards it as the last sentence of the book. For not from the beginning, but, you know, as I got, I think, two thirds of the way into the manuscript. I think because I really appreciate and I think it's satisfying in books to think about before and afters and mirror images. And the book starts that way. It sets up, you know, thinking about what's scary in the woods. And that's also such a trope of fairy tales. So it just felt like the intuitive, natural place to conclude the story.
- [34:48]
A
But when you thought of the line months ahead, if I can get into your brain for a little bit, how did you think of it? And like, were you, I guess, writing to your daughters? Or is that something you had felt and maybe learned later on and wanted them to know earlier?
- [35:09]
B
It's interesting that you ask that because it's actually, it goes into second person. It says, you are the scariest person in the woods. And that's not the voice that the whole book is written in. And I really wanted it to end on that line. You are the scariest thing in the woods. So I had to think about how to get there and shift perspective. So that made sense. So I think in that sense, yes, it was a message I wanted to impart. And I think to me, you asked earlier about if this book was therapy or rebellion when we talked before, and that is my moment of rebellion. Right. Like, I think the book started as therapy but ends up as rebellion.
- [35:54]
A
Wow. I really love that framing. Yeah. Because I felt like the difference between the opening line and the last line are part of this transformation and a perspective shift. And it, it's like how we're discussing this retelling. Being a shift is how we view the character of Lady Tremaine. As we grow. We don't need to be scared of the world. The world should be scared of us. But you did it. Now that I'm, I'm hearing you lyrically, like, you did it poetically.
- [36:27]
B
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, sometimes it's subconscious, you know, not. But in this case, you know, as I said before, it was something I was like, I got to get there. I got to find a way to land this plane.
- [36:51]
A
So when I read a book, I always look at the dedication and then the. When you're planning a trip, it helps to have a credit card that rewards you no matter where you like to book. That's the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. What makes a difference is how flexible it is. You can earn rewards where you like to book travel. If you like going straight to the airline or hunting down a deal on a hotel site, this card is designed to keep rewarding you. Here's how the points stack up. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. So picture booking that hotel in the neighborhood you've always wanted to stay in, that's earning points. Grabbing flights for a last minute getaway, that's earning. Sitting down for that first dinner when you land, still earning Even the everyday stuff between trips can help toward your next journey. The Autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo helps turn the way you already travel, eat and explore into rewards. Learn more@wells fargo.com AutographJourney terms apply right now, I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been, and I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music, and I'm going to have to sneak in a museum or two. Trips like that are truly unforgettable, and what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning you extra cash. Find a co host@airbnb.com host I'm partnering with Simple Mills and I have now found a new Go To Snack. When I'm reading Simple Mills Almond Flour Crackers, I thought I'd review them book style because these crackers deserve it. Let's start with the premise A snack that doesn't leave you feeling weighed down. Made with almond flour, sunflower seeds and flaxseeds. Nutrient dense ingredients your body can use with protein, vitamins and fiber, not just empty carbs. That's a solid foundation and just like a good premise needs great writing. Simple Mills Almond Flour Crackers also taste amazing. Classic flavors like fine ground sea salt, a crunchy texture and a light finish that leaves you feeling uplifted and energized. It's like a taste of sunshine in every bite. For a change in genre, try Pop' Ems. Cheesy, airy and poppable crackers with an unexpected twist. They're packed with veggies. Here's my Simple Mills crackers are a snack staple you'll always want on your shelf. Okay, I've hit my metaphor quota for the year, but these crackers are worth it. Find Simple Mills at your grocery store, okay? You've got a lot going on, and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to do list. I get it, so let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number one women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women to support the immune system, Vaginal health and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life Women's once daily probiotic is the real deal, don't okay. They are certified non GMO and doctor formulated for women's unique needs. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life Formulas for feeling Alive Available on Amazon Disclaimer Number 1 based on Circana 52 week multi outlet unit sales ending 113025 these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress, get great recommendations for your next read, or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple Co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current Pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books College Mints multiple times. Mostly because I'm just so curious who means something to the author. And also I have this deep belief that when we bring anything amazing into the world, it took so many people pouring into us like it was. It's never a self made effort. And you say in the acknowledgments despite my mother's best efforts, I was enthralled with the folk tale as a child. It was only as an adult and through mothering my own daughters that I found the need to revisit a tale that across centuries, languages and cultures has continued to tell young women that if they are beautiful, nice, and follow the rules, they may be lucky enough to be picked by a prince. If you've made it this far, you know exactly how I've come to feel about that. I don't know if every woman can relate but my guess is almost every woman can relate to that statement. What kind of agency do you hope readers take away from this?
- [42:51]
B
I mean, you asked me at the beginning of the month what I wanted people to think about before they read the book and going into it. And I. I think it's because I wanted them to look at their own relationship with the fairy tale. For me, this was a very formative fairy tale. It really impacted my perspective on romance and partnership, and I had to do a lot of work to dismantle it. Which isn't to at all say I'm against romance or partnership or that I don't believe in them. It's just that I wanted my perspective on them to be earned and innate versus prescribed.
- [43:32]
A
If I'm hearing you correctly, what you're saying is that the agency is that, like you are of sound mind making the choice, whatever choice is right for you and not just making a choice based on what society has told you.
- [43:47]
B
Yeah. And I think agency in and of itself is a happy ending.
- [43:52]
A
Well said. Well, in a world of fairy tales, like, you really are supposed to have a happy ending. How did you push back against that narrative by focusing on an older woman starting over?
- [44:05]
B
I think I gave Ethel a kind of happy ending of her own. I don't think we're taught that women in middle age can have happy endings. Right. They're not intuitively connected to the fairy tale romance that we've been discussing. So I wanted to give her a satisfying ending. I didn't want it to be connected to, you know, sailing off into the sunset in a carriage after getting married. But it goes back to what we talked about with agency. She has a sense of agency in the end, and that means that she can pursue her version of a happy ending. So even though I'm dismantling the traditional happily ever after, there's a whole world out there for us to choose from. The world is our oyster.
- [44:51]
A
Yeah, and I think that's a good point because a lot of happy endings end with 18 year olds starting their life.
- [44:59]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [45:00]
A
Yeah. Did you watch the Sex and the City? What is it called in. Just like that. Did you watch.
- [45:07]
B
I saw the first season.
- [45:09]
A
So in the. I think it's the third season and it's the end of the series, Sarah Jessica Parker. The last scene is like, she ends up alone and she's writing, which is kind of how we started.
- [45:21]
B
Yeah.
- [45:22]
A
And people were so upset, but I don't know how I felt about it. Like I wanted her to find love and also that's not the point. Like, the point was that she found love in herself.
- [45:33]
B
Yeah, yeah, there's an interesting corollary there. This book has not yet been compared to Sex and the City in any way, but you've done it successfully. Now I need to see that season.
- [45:45]
A
Oh, I could make anything correlate to
- [45:47]
B
Sex and the City, I think.
- [45:50]
A
Okay, so speaking of happy endings, we are at the end of our conversation, but now that your book is out, are you in your happily ever after right now? Has this given you what you've been looking for?
- [46:02]
B
Yeah, I like to joke that this is my fairytale ending. This is my Cinderella story, quite literally. I've always wanted to publish a book and make a career of it. And I am so grateful and excited that I get to keep doing this.
- [46:19]
A
Well, I'm grateful, too, because I loved your writing. So I can't wait to continue reading your words. And before you leave us, I want to do a little speed read with you. We're going to put 60 seconds on the clock.
- [46:30]
B
Oh, no.
- [46:31]
A
See just how many rapid fire literary questions we can get through. Okay.
- [46:35]
B
Yep.
- [46:36]
A
Okay. What other fairy tale do you think needs a retelling?
- [46:40]
B
Little Mermaid. She gives up her voice for a man.
- [46:44]
A
Marry for love or marry for leverage?
- [46:47]
B
Love. But keep your head on your shoulders.
- [46:50]
A
Would you survive a royal court?
- [46:52]
B
Absolutely. I would thrive.
- [46:55]
A
Yes. What fairy tale is the most toxic?
- [46:58]
B
Sleeping Beauty. There's some consent issues there.
- [47:02]
A
Agreed. Which Disney mom deserved better?
- [47:05]
B
Pr, Every stepmother, They're all positioned as it was a way to other bad moms, you know, and separate them from the concept of motherhood.
- [47:16]
A
Are we retiring the picked by a prince narrative for good?
- [47:19]
B
I hope so. Why else am I here?
- [47:22]
A
Agreed. What's a fairy tale trope that you would ban forever?
- [47:27]
B
Well, I think as we've been discussing just having just one version of a happy ending.
- [47:33]
A
Haunted manor in the woods or big castle on a hill?
- [47:35]
B
Okay, I'm cheating. I'm picking both because it's like city country. You need your alone time in the haunted manor, and then you go to a party at the castle.
- [47:43]
A
Obviously, it's also very Rachel Coded. Like you can have it all.
- [47:48]
B
Yes, that's an interesting. I'm going to process that. That's Rachel Coded, but I don't disagree.
- [47:55]
A
Thank you so much, Rachel, and congrats. We really loved the book.
- [47:59]
B
Thank you for having me. This has been a joy and a delight.
- [48:06]
A
Okay, friends, before you go, it's that time of the month when we're counting down to the big announcement. The April Reese's Book Club Pick I already can't wait. And I'm excited to share that our partners at Apple Books are once again offering a free book drop where they are giving away up to 1,000 ebooks of the current pick. It's part of the spring's most anticipated collection from Apple Books, which you can check out at Apple co bestofspring. Now for our monthly game that might give the keen readers out there a little advanced hint. It's called Two Clues and a Lie. I'm going to share three phrases with you. Two of them are deeply connected to the book and one purely a distraction. Okay, here we go. The first phrase is intergalactic connection. The second is the season of Yearning, the third and final thrown for a time loop. So which of these things does not belong? And do the two clues remaining tip you off to the April pick? If you have a guess, let me know. Leave me a voice memo at 501-291-3379. We'll only be releasing clues here on the podcast moving forward, so make sure to tune back in for more future hints. If you want to be among the 1,000 people to get a code and redeem a free ebook, all you have to do is follow Apple Books at Applebooks and Reese's Book Club Reese's Book Club on Instagram to get notified about next month's free book drop. That's it for this episode of Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. Our phone line is now open, so if you want to go 90s on us, give us a call at 1-501-29133. That's 1-501-291-3379. Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't overthink it. Give us a ring. And if you want more, come hang with us. Reese's Book Club is on Instagram serving up books, good vibes and all the behind the scenes stuff you love. And I'm Danielle Robay, R O B A Y so come say hi. And please seriously DM me because I actually read them and I love hearing what you think about the episodes. And don't forget to follow. Bookmarked by Reese's Book club on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen. We'll see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked as a production of hello Sunshine and iHeart podcasts executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robay production by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez and Sarah Schlied. Our editor is Carmen Borca Carillo. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristen Perla, Ashley Rapaport and Sarah Kernerman are associate producers for Reese's Book Club and Ali Perry is executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more at thefabricofourlives.com the autograph journey Credit Card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book your favorite hotel, site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply. All the talk of probiotics can get confusing. Which to take? Why? What does it do? Let's make it easy. Garden of Life's doctor Formulated Once Daily Women's Probiotic is the number one women's probiotic. Why should you take it? Well, Garden of Life transforms a range of probiotic strains to support digestive, immune and vaginal health. Plus, this doctor formulated non GMO formula is designed specifically for women. Simply put, this is an easy way to support your gut health. Garden of Formulas for Feeling Alive Available on Amazon disclaimer number one based on Circana 52 week multi outlet unit sales ending 1130, 25 these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. I'm partnering with Simple Mills and I have now found a new go to reading snack. Simple Mills Almond Flour Crackers Think of this as a quick book style review because these crackers deserve it. The premise A snack that feels light, not heavy. Made with almond flour, sunflower seeds and flaxseeds. Nutrient dense ingredients your body can use, not empty carbs and the taste crunchy classic flavors that leave you feeling energized. For a good plot twist, try Pop Ems Cheesy, airy, poppable crackers packed with veggies. Final Verdict these are a shelf staple. Find simple meals at your grocery store. Apple Books is the best way to read or listen to the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone and a heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club so you can discover every exciting pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set and track your reading goals and get great recommendations for your next read or listen again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co Reese that's R E E S E Applebooks to find out more. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.