← Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Fate, Fandom, & the Making of Into the Blue with Reese’s Book Club Author Emma Brodie
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- [00:00]
A
This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human the Autograph Journey Credit card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book your favorite hotel site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply right now I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been and I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music and I'm going to have to sneak in a museum or two. If you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And now with the Co host network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication and even styling your space. Find a co host@airbnb.com host Allergy season does not slow down when you are on the move. That's why Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues are ready whenever sneezes strike. Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues are allergist approved and silky soft for up to 100% irritation free skin. And now with the new Kleenex Snap and Go, you can get that same gentle care made for life on the go. Get the Kleenex Ultra Soft tissues you love in a new compact durable package. New Kleenex Snap and Go snaps shut for a clean tissue anytime, anywhere. For whatever happens next. Grab Kleenex Snap and Go. A new car is kind of like a new book. It takes you places you never thought you could go. What will you drive into the next chapter of your life? It's fun to dream about your next car. But when you're done dreaming, you need to head to cars.com Cars.com has the tools and expert advice to help you find your dream car. Their advanced search filters allow you to explore 2 million new and used cars so that you can find the perfect car. Start your search with cars.com where to next bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi, I'm Danielle Robaix and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. I have a question for you today. What in your life have you talked yourself out of doing? Maybe it's something small, like going to make a connection or signing up for a dance class. Or maybe it's something bigger, like moving to a new city or quitting the job. Everyone told you that you would be crazy to leave. Well, what if you had the chance to do it all over? Would you make the leap into the unknown? That question, that what if? Is the driving force behind Emma Brody's new novel, into the Blue, which also happens to be April's Reese's Book Club pick. Into the Blue is a love story told in four parts. So there's a modern Romeo character named Noah. He's brooding, he's talented, maybe a little toxic, and definitely secretly a little dorky. And then there's our Juliet. Her name is AJ she's brilliant and funny and driven and also a little self defeating. Their story begins in the year 2000, when they're just on the verge of adulthood. And then the story follows them onto the set of an improvised TV show set in space, to comic cons, to snl, and to an Off Broadway stage. Emma, the author builds a whole world around their decades of will they, won't they? And she weaves between fact and fiction, humor and tragedy, and an endless spiral of what ifs. So if you have ever had the urge to take a deep breath and take a leap of faith into the blue. Sorry, I had to. Then you are in the right place. Let's turn the page with Emma Brody. Hi, Emma. Welcome to the club.
- [04:05]
B
Oh, I'm so happy to be here. This is incredible. Wow.
- [04:09]
A
It's so incredible to be in person with you. I feel like I'm watching a star be born. I'm not kidding. I looked on Goodreads. Five stars across the board. I don't know that I've ever, ever seen that.
- [04:21]
B
I know. I feel like we're in this warm bubble bath right now, and I'm like, I know it won't last, but for the moment, just enjoy the bubbles. Right?
- [04:28]
A
I mean, have you been. I think if I were you, I'd be like, checking Goodreads every day to watch it.
- [04:33]
B
I'm trying to be regular about it, right? Like, I can't completely resist, but I'm. I'm trying to only do it, like, a few times a day because I will have to stop eventually.
- [04:44]
A
How does this all feel?
- [04:46]
B
It's amazing. I mean, it's just the honor of a lifetime getting to be a part of a program like this. And I love this book so much. So to have this kind of launch for these characters, it's like, beyond my wildest dreams.
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A
Well, apparently everybody else loves it just as much as you do, so congratulations.
- [05:05]
B
That's my love.
- [05:07]
A
So your book is so much about fandom, and as I was reading, I was thinking to myself, I don't know that I'm a Stan of anything. Like, I love Beyonce, love Taylor Swift. I don't know that I'm a Stan in that way. Did you grow up as, like, such a fan?
- [05:26]
B
Yes, totally.
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A
What were you a fan of?
- [05:28]
B
Totally. I mean, so many random things. I think that's so interesting. Like, there are people who are Stans and there are people who are not. It's like, I feel like my earliest fanhood was for Dolly Parton. I. I used to have, like, an elaborate fantasy in first grade that she would show up and beam into the bullies, and I just loved her. So I feel like it's so random. It wasn't, like, a comic book thing or any kind of nerd fandom, but I feel like it's sort of that passion and that willingness to get fully behind something and invest a little portion of your identity in it has been part of how I've learned my whole life. Cause it's like, why are you drawn to something? It's because it is calling to a piece of you that wants to take shape or is in the process of taking shape, or you're trying to investigate an area of your personality. So it's like, why Dolly? Well, she's a Capricorn. She's fierce, she's brave, and she's willing to be who she is out in public. And I feel like whenever I pick someone, it's usually for a reason. It's usually because I'm trying to find some quality of theirs.
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A
I've never heard it described that way. Cause I was gonna ask you, what am I missing?
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B
Hmm.
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A
That's so interesting.
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B
Well, and you love Gloria Steinem. I mean, it's like, there are people and causes and things that you're totally into. I do think there is a thing with fandom where it does become synonymous with nerdiness sometimes. And it's not like there are fandoms. Like, my husband is obsessed with Michigan football. It's, like, one of the most fierce, violent fandoms. Like, the people who love that team love it so desperately. So it's like being a part of fandom, like, Bravo has a con, you know? Like, it's. I think there are a lot of ways to be in fandom, even if you're not into nerdy stuff. But that said, the nerd stuff is really fun. We have the best toys.
- [07:17]
A
Did you. So you consider yourself part of the nerdy fandom? Because I know last month you mentioned you were a fan of Firefly, which is this very like, nuanced, unique, sort of zeitgeist y fandom.
- [07:28]
B
Yeah, the brown coats. Yeah, yeah. We based the blue coats in the book off of them. I love that.
- [07:34]
A
Did you write this book for people who are stans?
- [07:39]
B
I wrote this book for everybody. I think I decorated it with aspects of fandom because I love fandom. But it's not just that. It's like I decorated it with references to 90s pop music because I love that too. There's one amazing fourth wing reference that I'm obsessed with. Cause I read that book while we were doing revisions. I just wanted to put everything I love into this story to help these characters and to imbue it with just all the love that I feel. But I think when I was writing it, I was really just thinking about how to give people the experience of being welcomed into a community like that.
- [08:14]
A
What do you want people to take away from it when they close both of the bindings? I think both covers, I should say
- [08:25]
B
what I want people to take from this book is permission to go off the beaten path. Like, the book is an exploration of the choices that we have and the pressures that we're under to live a normal and good life. Like, we're in this era where we have so much privilege, we can self determine so much. Even though I know the world is crazy, but if you look at where we were 200 years ago, relative to that, we have washing machines. Right. And I think that there's still, even with all the freedom we have, just so much pressure to hit certain benchmarks. If you're not happy, it's your fault. Like, that's the era we're living in and there are just tons of pressures. And I think what AJ and Noah in the book are really exploring is how to deal with the myth of a normal life, whether it's real or not. And how to cope if what actually makes them happy is. Is not on the beaten path and how to accept that. And so I think in a way the book is for my husband just sort of saying, like, we're in this together no matter what. And I dedicated it to him. And it's just the sort of thing of like, anything we do that's normal, great. Anything we do that's not normal, also great. And yeah, it was a really cathartic experience writing it.
- [09:45]
A
Well, this isn't your first book. It's definitely a feat.
- [09:49]
B
Yeah, I think there are definitely commonalities, like, superficially. Jane, who's the heroine of my first book, is a Scorpio and so is Noah. So we've got that. But I think that structurally they're very different. Ursa Major is a hero's journey where it's Jane kind of on her own, standing for her principles, figuring out what she alone stands for. Whereas into the Blue is really a heroine's journey where it's. It's all about AJ Trying to convey to Noah that he's not alone. And all of the strength in the book comes from unity and all of the weakness and the desperation in the book comes from disunity. So it's a very different structure, but I think they are speaking to each other. I'm very interested in art and the intersection of art and commerce. I think that's in both books. I think fame is a really interesting mechanism to have in stories. Like, I don't know that I'm super interested in fame itself, but I love the things it comes with and I love the opportunities it gives my characters.
- [10:54]
A
What do you mean by that?
- [10:56]
B
Well, so, you know, we're in the real world. We're writing in a contemporary setting, and we don't have things like magical powers, like, we very rarely have royalty. But if you want to convey that someone is dominant, make them famous. If you want to convey that someone is powerful, make them famous. And so I think often what we're doing in these novels, in these novels, like novels in general, is dramatizing the way things feel. So I've never been in love with a famous person, fandom aside. But I have had the feeling of having someone walk into a room and they're larger than life and they're so, so important to me, and they feel so special and unique. And I think I'm writing about that feeling. Even if it's about a famous person. It's my feeling. But transposed onto this thing, that makes more sense, maybe.
- [11:47]
A
Well, there's another world that you dove into, which is reality tv. So fame still, right? And you clearly went down a rabbit hole of reality tv. The second section has so much behind the scenes moments of how reality TV is shot and produced. I feel like you must have been on so many Reddit threads and YouTube tutorials.
- [12:11]
B
Thank you so much for this question. I was trul. Like, I approach this as if I was someone looking to break into the business because it's such a well kept secret. Like, it's very guarded. And I think the people that work in reality television, in fact, are very close to writers. Like, they're shaping things like, essentially, like when we shoot regular scripted stuff, it's basically like assembling IKEA furniture, where you have all the pieces, you make them ahead of time and then you put them all together and the script tells you how big to make, you know, the arm or the chair or whatever. In reality tv, you're sort of carving a block of wood and you don't know what you're going to get. So you might have ideas of pairings. Every show comes with premises and challenges and this and that, but you're basically following people around to see what happens and then afterwards shaping it into something. And the art is taking this thing that exists where there's like a finite amount of footage and you are putting it together and composing it retroactively into a full piece. So that what I just said took me like weeks to discover. Like, the idea that reality TV is reality is so well preserved by the entertainment industry, as it should be, because we want to believe that what we're seeing is real.
- [13:25]
A
I heard you got obsessed with Skandival.
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B
I did. I got obsessed with Scandal. Well, that was the thing that sort of turned on my brain because, like, it's not that I don't watch reality TV, but I'm much more in the vein of, like, AJ's show in the book that she works on. Turn it or Return It. I like. I like renovation shows, I like real estate shows, I like cooking shows. But I had never really watched a docudrama. And I was visiting my best friend who lives in San Francisco. We have nothing in common. We've been friends since we were 10. We've become very different people. But it was the height of Scandival. And she's like, I'm sorry, I know you're here and I haven't seen you in a few years, but we're watching this. And I got completely sucked in. And I had been trying to figure out how to do a show within my book, where I had the premise, I had all this stuff I wanted to do, but the idea of shooting it like a traditional scripted show would have just made such a boring book. But suddenly I was like, this. This is delicious. Like, this is what we need for AJ and Noah. So from there, yeah, so justice for Ariana. But, yeah,
- [14:35]
A
based on your deep research, because I think Skandoval also actually became sort of like this fan people had fandom around this scandal.
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B
Yep.
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A
What is it about a TV show or movie that requires fandom? How does it. How does it come to be? Does it require opposition?
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B
Ooh, I love that. I think it requires stakes.
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A
Okay.
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B
So I think, yes, there are some competition shows, but people love Alone. Right. Where it's just the person. Is that what it's called? The one where the person's out alone and they're filming themselves and they're like,
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A
oh, I don't know.
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B
Okay. I feel like my boss was just talking about the show. Anyway, I think there need to have stakes.
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A
Okay.
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B
So I think it's gotta be something where you can see yourself in it. I think it's gotta be also something escapist, where it's not your life and you're watching it because it's, like, allowing you a little bit of room.
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A
Right. Cause I was thinking about, like, current shows that have huge fandom. The Pit comes to mind.
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B
Yes.
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A
Don't know why that has. I like it, but I don't know why it has fandom. But it's so interesting. People just get obsessed.
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B
People get so obsessed. And I think, too, like, there's, of course, like, a bandwagon effect, but I think. I think it's. And I think. I don't know. It's interesting. Like, you want both things. You want there to be, like, the genuine connection. But then if something can become social commerce. Like, I feel so inadequate that I haven't seen the Pit. I was out to dinner with my godmother last night, and she is obsessed with it. And I was like, I'm sorry, Margie, I haven't seen it. I'm not cool. But it's like, that's a piece of social commerce where it's like. You do feel sort of like. I remember being in school and, like, needing to see the OC because if I missed an episode of the OC I wouldn't be able to talk to my friends the next day.
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A
Right.
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B
So, yeah.
- [16:27]
A
Can I give you an armchair theory? I have to see what you think.
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B
Yes, please.
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A
So there was this book by Derek Thompson called Hitmakers.
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B
Okay.
- [16:33]
A
And Derek Thompson used to write for the Atlantic. He's like a sort of a cultural critic in some ways. And his philosophy on what makes a hit is that it's familiar but different. So to me, the Pit is like, everyone loved er. It's familiar, but it's a little different.
- [16:50]
B
I love that.
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A
But I don't know what that means for Scandal. I never went down the rabbit hole.
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B
Well, I feel like for Scandal, it's like. It is just like this thing that's been on for so long, and you get used to the idea that it's real. And so to see it rupture, it's just so intimate and it's. Yeah, I think it's voyeurism. I feel a little creepy that I like it, but also, I can't look away.
- [17:16]
A
So go with me on this because last month that you said people that would love this book were fandoms of Star wars and Firefly.
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B
Oh, yeah.
- [17:26]
A
Plus, plus, plus. Cause as I said, I'm not a Stan and I love the book. So if you got the opportunity to reboot a cult classic, what would it be? And who are you casting?
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B
Oh, my God. I mean, I just want the Firefly reboot to happen so badly. They're currently trying to shop an animated show with the original cast.
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A
Wow.
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B
So, unfortunately, one of the cast members has passed, but the rest of them are on board. So I would really like for that to happen.
- [17:53]
A
Yeah.
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B
Yeah.
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A
I know everyone was so bummed that Buffy and Lizzie McGuire were cancele, but Elle woods is coming.
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B
Oh, can't wait. I. I know. I saw the video. The other is so cute. Cannot freaking wait.
- [18:10]
A
Right now. I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been. And I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music, and I'm going to have to sneak in a museum or two. Trips like that are truly unforgettable. And what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now, if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything, like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication, on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning you extra cash. Find a co host@airbnb.com host when you're planning a trip, it helps to have a credit card that rewards you no matter where you like to book. That's the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. What makes a difference is how flexible it is. You can earn rewards where you like to book travel. If you like going straight to the airline or hunting down a deal on a hotel site, this card is designed to keep rewarding you. Here's how the points stack up. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. So picture booking that hotel in the neighborhood you've always wanted to stay in, that's earning points. Grabbing flights for a last minute getaway? That's earning sitting down for that first dinner when you land. Still earning Even the everyday stuff between trips can help toward your next journey. The autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo helps turn the way you already travel, eat and explore into rewards. Learn more@wells fargo.com autographjourney terms apply. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read, or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current Pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book, breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moment. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton. Joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak, a story that spans generations, forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything, wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com okay, so there are so many little treats in into the Blue. Snl Sketch, comedy, improv. And I think that comedy is fun and silly and interesting, but a word that does not come to my mind necessarily is hot. And yet this book is very spicy. Yeah, it really is. Emma, you dirty girl. So what made you think you wanted your two main characters to fall in love over improv?
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B
It's so interesting. Like, I got to have dinner with a friend of mine who is, like, big in the improv scene. After I'd written the first draft, we were talking about it, and it's like, improv isn't funny. Like, you laugh at it because it's uncomfortable, but it's like, as a fundamental art form, if people are really doing it. If you go to an improv show, it's people who are reacting truthfully to insane circumstances that are being made up. So they're in agony on stage and you're enjoying watching because it's like they're in agony over a space farm losing its space tractor. Oh, no. But the people who are in that circumstance, it's 100% real to them. And if it's funny, it means the people are actually in it. To answer your question, more specifically, I think that comedians aren't typically actually funny in their personal lives. Like, I was in the.
- [23:29]
A
Yeah. You know, unfortunately, I dated one at one point. It only lasted two weeks.
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B
Same. They're dark. They're really dark. And there are different sort of stereotypes for every kind of comedian. But I think often people develop a funny bone as a way of having control. It can be a defense mechanism. It can be a way of taking over a situation that's overwhelming. But I think within sex dynamics, within interpersonal dynamics, control is a big factor as well. So to me, comedy and sex are very linked. Whoa. Yeah. I think you can tell a lot about how someone is from their sense of humor. And also, I just think that going into this world and we're in the world of comedy, but it's a drama to me, that felt very real to what I experienced just being sort of on the fringes of New York comedy in 2012-2015. 15, which is when I was doing improv at UCB. Like, it's. It's a. It's full of soulful people who are deeply ambitious and competitive. It's not like a college acapella group, which is why I joined, because I was looking to make friends.
- [24:34]
A
I Think that's really cute of you.
- [24:36]
B
Yeah. Naive.
- [24:38]
A
No. So where did you even start then? Because your book has so many pop culture references and so many fandoms.
- [24:44]
B
Yeah.
- [24:46]
A
Where did you begin? Cause you're almost world building.
- [24:49]
B
Yeah, for sure, for sure. We're really pushing reality to, like, the very edge.
- [24:54]
A
Yeah.
- [24:55]
B
Well, so I really wanted to do a connection that had the epic feel of the Force connection in Star wars or in Wuthering Heights or in Romeo and Juliet, which necessitated some juggling, and I wanted to dramatize that and see it played out across things. That would make the epicness comes from the stakes. Right. So it's like, it starts out as a small town romance, and in order to have the stakes build until we reach the limits of existence, which is like the goal of the book, I had to bring their dynamics into larger and larger and larger theaters, both in terms of, like, actual theater that they perform on stage, but also like the theater of life and the theater of their jobs and their careers and their choices.
- [25:38]
A
The drama is real. The will they, won't they, will they, won't they? Like, you really have a of sense sweating.
- [25:44]
B
Good. I was sweating too. So whenever people react that way, I'm like, cool. Like, that makes me feel less alone. But I think, yeah, figuring out a thread that could carry through from this small town all the way through, I think that being in love is like having a common language. And that's a piece with the fandom. Like, that's absolutely an aspect of including fandom in this book. And with improv, it's their shared language. So that's so beautiful and true. It's really true. And like, the stuff that I'd experienced on stage and seen on stage, like the vulnerability and the trust, because those are the things you really need to have a connection. Like AJ and Noah's. I was like, this is something where even someone who hasn't experienced this in their life, if they're watching these two people perform, they will know. And to me, that was like a really interesting. A really interesting possibility. So.
- [26:40]
A
So for Noah, did you know exactly who you wanted him to be? Did you jump right in or which character did you start with?
- [26:49]
B
It was Noah. So I knew Noah. It's from AJ's perspective, but I knew Noah first. And it's interesting. Like, I was very lost between my first book and my second book. Like, the process of publishing is so vulnerable, and I felt very exposed and I wasn't really sure what to do. I actually wrote a whole that I threw away Like a full length novel. Which interestingly ended up becoming the plot of the contract in into the Blue.
- [27:18]
A
Whoa.
- [27:18]
B
Which is like Noah's first Oscar bid. It's the movie that he's in in the third part of the book. And that's a cool Easter egg. It's a weird self serving Easter egg. No one's read this book. My husband hasn't even read it. But I think after I finished it and decided I needed to throw it away, one of the characters kind of stuck around and that was Noah. And he kind of unmasked and. And it was like, actually that was a character I was playing. Like I am actually this other person, Noah Drew. And from there I started getting details about his acting family and his past. And I knew certain things about his personal life and his trajectory right away. And I just was like, I don't know what to do with you because you're so hot and magnetic and interesting, but I don't really write men. And then it was essentially like this side conversation for months where eventually he was basically like, you have to meet this girl, AJ and from there it was like watching the two of them meet and go through it. And in the beginning, to your point, you're right. There are so many aspects to this book and I really didn't know how to start it. So I had a conversation with myself that was like, well, we'll just go in chronological order and if we end up doing something where we interspace, because that's quite common with a second chance structure. You'll get the present and then you'll do flashbacks. I was like, fine, I'll write it and I'll write the flashbacks and I can feed them in after. But when I finished writing the whole book, which was a five month process for the first draft, I was like, this is like, to quote Kylo Ren, this is something different. This is really powerful. And I think the power is coming from the first section. So this is gonna be a risk because we really pressure authors to start fast. We do not wanna take the time, we don't wanna waste time in the past. There's a chance that people will read this book and not get past the first 50 pages because they'll think it's ya because they're quite young when they meet. But I was like, if I cut off the first part of this book, I will cripple it. Like I will take the power out of the fourth part. So from there it was like a journey of having to stand up for that opening. And we did Massively condense it. It used to be twice as long. So many improv exercises. You're welcome, world, for not putting that on you, because I wanted to justify it, because one of my favorite pieces of impro wisdom is you can take the train to crazy town. You just have to make it a local so you can do wild things, but it has to be justified. So I wanted this psychic connection between AJ and Noah to feel super real. And a lot of the balancing of writing the book was figuring out how much to show and how. Like, at what point do people get the point? Like, we get it. So I think we ultimately found the right balance, and it took a lot of hands. I had a lot of help on this book.
- [30:04]
A
Well, it's clear that your improv knowledge runs deep. It seems to me that it's more than a Reddit sort of rabbit hole you went down. Where did your love of improv come from?
- [30:16]
B
I love dogma of all kinds. Like, I just like to know how things work. I think that's a trait I actually gave Noah in the book. He's like that too. But I was so fascinated when I saw my first improv show because this is. This is a little mapped onto AJ as well. I just knew there was a language. I knew there was a trick, and I couldn't figure it out. So I was like, I'm going to take a class. Even though looking at me, I've always been a writer. I've always known I'm a writer. I'm not really a performer. I don't have that motivation to keep going every night. I'll do it once, and I'm fine. I was so fascinated by the improvisers as a writer getting to be in the classes, and I was like, I don't want to take sketch. I want to follow these people and see how they tick. And I think it was a process of discovery. And I loved taking the classes. So my love of it really came from a craft standpoint more than a like, oh, I want to be on stage and be Amy Poehler, who I'm obsessed with, by the way. But it was really just wanting to understand how these people could do this thing. I wanted to know the magic trick.
- [31:22]
A
If anybody listening has read your first book, I think that they'll notice a similarity in your writing. In the second book, you kind of weave between these two worlds of fact and fiction. Why is that something of interest to you? Because it's a very particular way of writing.
- [31:42]
B
I love that question. I think at my heart I do love adventure stories. My favorite thing, like, I live on Martha's Vineyard, which is an island off the east coast. And it's both very, like, sterile and, like, it's a vacation destination, and it's wild and untamed, and I love that juxtaposition. And my favorite thing about where I live is that I am safe and cozy, facing this, like, big, dark ocean and having those two things next to each other. The dark and the light, is a source of constant simulation. And it's something that is mirrored in the books that I love to read. Like, I want to be close to that because I want to be in that energy. And I think that my favorite stories are stories where there's a person you can relate to getting to go on crazy big adventures. And I think having that relatable aspect, like, you can have really relatable characters in a fantasy world. And I do read fantasy. I also don't preclude myself from ever writing a fantasy novel. But I think there's something really powerful getting to see magic in real life and getting to see people who are just like us push the circumstances they're born into and go on an adventure. So I think that's kind of where it comes from.
- [33:07]
A
I interviewed Philippa Gregory a bit ago.
- [33:10]
B
Love her talk about good spice.
- [33:12]
A
Good spice.
- [33:14]
B
Never got over the other Bolin girl. Yes, I know.
- [33:18]
A
I love talking to her so much. And one of my favorite parts of our conversation was when she was talking about where the historian in her stops and where the novelist starts. And I'm curious about that with you. Where does that fact end in fiction begin or vice versa?
- [33:39]
B
I think that you have different places you can write from. And one of the reasons I threw out that book between Ursa Major and Into the Blue was that I felt like it was skimming too high off the surface. Like, it felt like it was taking stuff not from, like, the deep well of who I am on a fundamental level, but sort of stuff from who I was in that particular moment in time, which I don't necessarily think is where the deep connection comes from. From interesting. I really want the books that I put out to come from the diaphragm. Like, I want them to come from the gut and, like, the deepest well of my person, the deepest well of my subconscious. Like, that's another reason I was very drawn to improv, is because improvisers can drop into their subconscious on a dime. It's absolutely amazing. Whereas, like, for me, I need to be in retreat, alone in a room But. But when I can go into that place, then I can bring stuff back that I think is actually nutritious and good and something that's for not just me, for other people too.
- [34:44]
A
I really like how you said from the diaphragm. I think that's such a good phrasing. That's very cool. Do you sketch out what these imaginary shows look like? Is everything like, even if you don't put all the detail in the book, is everything sketched out for you?
- [35:03]
B
It's not a full show, so I don't have, like, full scripts sitting anywhere. I knew I wanted there to be. I knew I wanted there to be a relationship between the characters that are being played on the show, the cast members who are playing them, and AJ's family, because AJ comes from a big family. So in sort of the beginning part of the story, you get this first cast, which is all of her siblings and their dynamics and their parents. And then in the second part, you get this second family, which is her castmates. And I wanted them to have similar roles. So they're not the same people. Everyone has different motivations, this and that, but I wanted them all to have sort of a relationship. And then the people that they're playing on screen could either be, like, funny contrasts to that or like, an amplification of it. And then as far as, like, what was happening episode to episode, that was really where I feel like my nerd training came in, because I took a week off of work. This would have been fall of 2023. And I sat down and I put up post its everywhere just to figure out episodes one through 12. 12 is a big number in the book, so I wanted the show to have the same number as the performances at the end. And I just kind of sat down and wrote out the Netflix summaries for each episode because I knew it's going to be unscripted. I'm not going to have to show the show. And it kind of went from there.
- [36:26]
A
Yeah, that is so detailed.
- [36:28]
B
It was really fun.
- [36:29]
A
It makes so much sense talking to now, hearing how thorough you are, because that's how the book feels. Very cool. Okay. So your style almost feels adjacent to speculative fiction. And I think that's basically like fiction that asks what if?
- [36:49]
B
It's both like the what if of the world building, but also like the what if of AJ and Noah too. I just think it's like the suspension of disbelief where you can sort of live in this space where maybe it happens this way, maybe it doesn't. But it's fun to play, and it
- [37:06]
A
almost feels like what if to bring it all the way back to the thesis statement of like the possibility of what's available to you or possible in your life too.
- [37:17]
B
Yes, yes.
- [37:18]
A
What if is such a big question even though it's so small.
- [37:21]
B
Yes, no, exactly. I love that so much. That's like one of Noah's big questions. In the.
- [37:31]
A
Right now, I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been, and I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music, and I'm going to have to sneak in a museum or two. Trips like that are truly unforgettable. And what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now if you're planning any upcoming trip, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning you extra cash. Find a co host@airbnb.com host when you're planning a trip, it helps to have a credit card that rewards you no matter where you like to book. That's the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. What makes a difference is how flexible it is. You can earn rewards where you like to book travel if you like going straight to the airline or hunting down a deal on a hotel site. This card is designed to keep rewarding you. Here's how the points stack up. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. So picture booking that hotel in the neighborhood you've always wanted to stay in, that's earning points. Grabbing flights for a last minute getaway, that's earning sitting down for that first dinner when you land. Still earning, even the everyday stuff between trips can help toward your next journey. The Autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo helps turn the way you already travel, eat and explore into rewards. Learn more@wells fargo.com autographjourney terms apply. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read, or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co ReeseAppleBooks to find out more. That's Apple. And read or listen to Reese's current pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton joggers or Sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak. A story that spans generations. Forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the Fabric of Our Lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com okay, I have a dirty question for you.
- [41:27]
B
Yes, yes please.
- [41:29]
A
Because like I said before, the book is very spicy. What do you think makes a good sex scene? What is the secret?
- [41:37]
B
I think that the build is a huge part of it. So whatever happens before the sex scene, like I think having enough time. And again, this was something where I really fought to have a slow burn for these characters because you can write the best choreographed, best, most cutting edge filth, which I aspire to obviously. But if it doesn't have the long lead up, it won't be anywhere near as impactful. So I think that's huge. And I think we like a lot of spooning on both ends. I think having that feeling of safety and trust even though there's sort of a dangerous guy or a dangerous Dynamic. You need both things. And I think sort of acclimating and setting the dopamine levels at the beginning is a huge piece of gaining that trust with the reader. Because ultimately it's like me dirty talking the reader. It's not them. So I think that's a piece of it too. I also think, just like, for me, I want it to be beautiful. And, like, there are a lot of different tones of the sex scenes in this book. Like, there are some that are just like, we are just going ham. It's bonkers. And then there are some that are really beautiful and elevated. So a lot of it is figuring out, like, what is happening right now and who are they to each other right now and making sure that whatever we have in there is actually adding to the story. And that was a hard thing for my team because I think we all like them. And you're waiting for so long and you're so tortured and blah, blah, blah. So it was like, how much is too much? And hopefully we did a good amount.
- [43:08]
A
I don't know that I'm the right judge, but I felt like it was a good amount.
- [43:10]
B
Great.
- [43:11]
A
I felt like you did it right.
- [43:12]
B
I did too. I mean. Yeah, we'll see.
- [43:16]
A
I do want to talk about something you mentioned, though, because you kind of keep alluding to the length of the book.
- [43:21]
B
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [43:22]
A
You're saying it without saying it. And it's 425 pages. It's a big book nowadays. I was actually thinking that's sort of like in 2026, it's like putting an album out that has 22 records.
- [43:35]
B
Yes.
- [43:36]
A
Because that's what we grew up with.
- [43:37]
B
Yes.
- [43:38]
A
And now everything is like 12 or 13 songs.
- [43:40]
B
Yes.
- [43:41]
A
Books are not really 425 pages anymore. Did you have to fight for this?
- [43:45]
B
I did. I fully did. And my thought process was I know that readers are capable of reading a ton because Romantasy is huge and those books are six or 700 pages. So sort of like, compared to that, like, 400 is, like just a walk in the park. But you're right, like, not one person gets through this book without commenting on the length.
- [44:06]
A
Well, I heard your draft was much longer.
- [44:07]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [44:08]
A
How long was the draft?
- [44:09]
B
Our end product is 132,000 words. It started at 150.
- [44:14]
A
Okay.
- [44:15]
B
I did a second draft once. I knew AJ a lot better and really clicked with her. That ended at 180. So at this point, we're twice the length of a normal novel. And I think there was an aspect to that of self protection of, like. Again, like, publishing my first book, which was a cool 103, was a very vulnerable process, and I think I knew that I would need to shift some things around before publishing this. So I think the book's length almost came out as, like, a protective force where everyone who came to work on it had a piece that they then sort of helped remove. So my agent, alyssa, took out 30,000 words. My editor, Natalie, took out 17,000. And we had other help, like Jenna, my publisher, was really helpful in streamlining. She cut two characters. We had so many hands who loved this book and knew what it could be.
- [45:08]
A
Wow.
- [45:09]
B
Working to get it down to fighting shape.
- [45:12]
A
And were there any moments, characters, words that they cut that you felt really precious over?
- [45:18]
B
All of it. All of it. Like, walking through the book for me is like walking through a castle that's been, like, heavily renovated where I can see every. Heavily renovated several times where I can see, like, all the changes. My day job is I'm an editor, and so I have the capacity to just hold multiple drafts in my head. That's like a muscle that you build up over doing that job for a long time. So I have so much ram, like, my brain is like a Dropbox at this point that needs to be wiped of into the blue because so much RAM is stored with just all the different passes. And you love it all, but you give it away because you want what's healthy to grow.
- [46:01]
A
When did you know this is the shortest it can be? We're done cutting.
- [46:07]
B
I think last February, we had done a. We had done a structural edit. Natalie was so helpful, my editor, and then we did a line edit where she had made about 5,000 more words of suggestions, and I put them all back, and that was the end.
- [46:23]
A
And were there any darlings that you had to cut?
- [46:27]
B
Yes. Oh, my God, yes. So in the original draft, you meet Eudora's brother Ambrose, who was like a lion of the British stage, and he was just a really fun character. AJ had another sister originally, Kelly.
- [46:46]
A
Oh, whoa.
- [46:46]
B
Yep.
- [46:48]
A
More family.
- [46:49]
B
Yeah, More family. Yeah, even more family. You met Noah's dad in the original. And then one of the things that I structurally played around with in the second, which is the show, I originally had commentary for every episode at the beginning. So I had some of the characters end up moderating panels in the third part of the book, so you briefly meet them. But in an earlier draft, there was commentary for every episode of into the Blue. And there were these three podcast girlies that I was obsessed with. Mary Ann and Wanda. I named them after Goodbye Earl by the Chicks.
- [47:25]
A
I knew exactly where you were going. I sang that for my recital when I was singing sixteen.
- [47:29]
B
Oh, my God. That is amazing. Are you kidding me? They were named Mary Wanda. That is amazing. They were so great. They were so obsessed with Noah. They were podcasting from 2025. I love. I cannot believe that you sang Goodbye Earl for a recital. Okay. You know, they're doing a Chicks musical.
- [47:50]
A
Can we go?
- [47:51]
B
Can you be in it? No, I. I want more for you. I don't want to join. Just go.
- [47:55]
A
No, let's go. As fans, we'll sing Goodbye Earl at the top of our lungs. That's actually might be my fandom. This is so awesome. Wow. I love that you named them that. Everything had. Has a reason in your book.
- [48:09]
B
Yep. Yep. I love to play. Yeah, I love to play. So I love. And I'm. I'm a decorator, so I like to decorate all the different things.
- [48:18]
A
So you said in the original manuscript you got to meet Noah's dad.
- [48:23]
B
Yes.
- [48:24]
A
This is something I've always been curious about.
- [48:26]
B
Yep.
- [48:27]
A
Because in Sex and the City, we never meet the characters parents.
- [48:31]
B
Oh, whoa. I'm gonna have to process that for a sec. You're so right.
- [48:37]
A
It's one of the only shows where we feel really close to these characters and we don't ever meet their parents or like, really know where they come from.
- [48:46]
B
I had never noticed that. Oh, my God.
- [48:50]
A
So I'm curious because you have such thoughtful ideas about writing. When you took Noah's dad out of the picture, what did you lose and what did you gain?
- [49:03]
B
It was really honestly a pacing decision. So you meet him at a funeral, and the funeral scene was going on for a very long time. So that's the only time he appears in the book. And I thought that. I thought that it would be. I don't know, it was just. It was really like a clinical decision in that way. I think what we gained was just getting to see Noah in juxtaposition to this character. There are plenty of other instances where we sort of show similar qualities from Noah emerging, which is ultimately why I was willing to let that one go. But part of what's so amazing about Noah is that because he's from this long standing theater background, he's not obsessed with being famous. Like, he's a real craftsman and he's kind of a white whale. Like, he's brilliant intellectually and he's super good looking and he's super talented. And don't worry he has flaws too, but he's borderline toxic.
- [50:05]
A
Yeah, but the fact that he's an actor's actor makes you like him more, Right?
- [50:09]
B
It's weird, right? Because it's like. It's like he's really good at not being an actor, even though he's also really good at being an actor, whereas his dad is like a complete peacock. So I think seeing them next to each other, it helped explain sort of why Noah is the way he is a little bit. But there's also a lot. As we said, it's a very long book, so we have other opportunities to show why Noah is the way he is.
- [50:31]
A
So it's not good practice in what I do to ask yes or no questions, but something about this feels like you're writing fan fiction about fictional characters.
- [50:42]
B
Mm, that's such a compliment. I definitely did. I felt that way on my first book too. Like, I think for me, like, we were talking about that diaphragm place. There's a secondary aspect to it that's sort of like a sugary, like, will I be a little embarrassed if anyone reads this place? Which when I'm in that place, I know I'm doing something good. Like, I know I'm doing something fun that's a little bit, like, if it's a little cringe, you're actually sort of in the right place. And my love of them, it's interesting. Cause AJ is such a fan of Noah. Noah's such a fan of aj but obviously, everything that they experience, I also experience. Omniscience is so weird. You're both everywhere and nowhere, and AJ can remember every interaction they've had as if it's a TV show. Same. And so getting to see it all play out in all these different ways. I am constantly cheering for them too. I was so emotional writing this book because I'm just that invested in their relationship. And, yeah, I think you sh. Like, I don't want to say shoulds about writing, because that's not useful to anyone, but it's very useful to me when I am a huge fan of the characters. So I definitely was so cool.
- [51:55]
A
Did you picture specific actors in your mind?
- [51:57]
B
Okay, so with the show, with into the Blue, which is the show within the book, I definitely had a Reylo thing going, but also Avatar the Last Airbender. So, like. Like, Ro, who is the sort of villainy character, is like, so Kylo Ren coded down to the leather and all the things. So it's easy to picture Adam Driver as Ro, but as Noah I mean, there's just so many different. So it's like a little bit of him, a little bit of Ethan Peck, a little bit of Richard Burton, like, the classic act. It's like I actually gave him Richard Burton's birthday. And then with aj, AJ was just such an energy to me. Like, she is just this, like. Like this fire sprite, and I didn't really have a face on her, which, actually we got a cold read, like, right before we transmitted the manuscript from a reader who had never read it before. And she's like, you never actually say what AJ's face looks like. So that was a really useful edit. So I comped her to a young Charlotte Rampling, who has one of the best faces ever. So, yeah. Cause I guess when I really sat down and thought about it, I was like, yeah, they have a lot in common. Like, I could see her eyes, her nose bridge. I just think of her as this, like, young lion, like, fierce and doesn't have it together yet, but, like, she is powerful.
- [53:14]
A
Do you feel like fanfiction lets you break certain rules?
- [53:18]
B
Yes.
- [53:19]
A
Say more. What rules?
- [53:21]
B
Well, so I think fanfiction is sort of an exercise in active imagination, which is, like, gets at this theme in the book of breaking space and time, where it's like, you're stealing extra time in this world that's over. So. So I think that it's inherently an act of rule breaking because you're not supposed to be there. It's someone else's story. So there's something transgressive about it from the beginning. And then I think it is just like this amazing act of creativity to fold yourself into another world. But it's like, yeah, you're not supposed to be there, and you know that the whole time. So I don't know. I think that in and of itself creates a level of intrigue, and then.
- [54:02]
A
Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. One of the biggest or one of the most popular questions I get from people about this podcast is, do you read every book? How are you reading every book? And the only way I can do it is part reading, part audio.
- [54:20]
B
Smart. Smart.
- [54:21]
A
I love audiobooks. And I actually think it gives people an exhale because they feel like it doesn't count. And it 100% counts.
- [54:27]
B
100% counts. Oh, my God.
- [54:29]
A
And I say this all to say that you got the queen of audiobooks to read yours, Julia Whelan. We had her on the pod. She's amazing.
- [54:38]
B
She's amazing.
- [54:39]
A
Not just as a talent, but as a human being. She's so interesting.
- [54:42]
B
She's a true artist.
- [54:43]
A
Yes.
- [54:44]
B
Yeah.
- [54:45]
A
How did you get Julia Whelan?
- [54:47]
B
Luck. Pure, pure luck. I think she gets a lot of offers, and what she said is that the book just really resonated for her, and it was such an amazing collaboration. She was very inclusive of me and would get in touch about certain things. And she's just so unbelievably talented. And it's getting to have Julia Whelan read your book, it's sort of like being a composer and getting to have Eat Sak Perlman play your thing. There's an aspect of it where you're listening and you're like, okay, it's working. The rhythm I wanted is coming through because she's just picking up on it, and it's like. Like, she just has this way of, like, bringing out the music. And it feels like when you have, like, a bright. Like a vibrant filter on a photo, it's like. It's like all the red just suddenly comes out. It's like she. She brings out the music, and she just keeps it interesting. Like, I. You know, as we were talking about earlier, like, I like to study technique, and I'm. I'm so curious about hers because the way that she varies the cadence, like, she doesn't let you, like, go into a passive state when she's reading. And also just the sheer talent of having the ability to produce all these voices and accents. Like, I don't know if you noticed, but she did, like, a different accent for Noah for every character he plays.
- [56:06]
A
I noticed.
- [56:07]
B
It's so smart. It's amazing. It's just like. Yeah, Took my breath away.
- [56:12]
A
So I was gonna ask you, is there anything that came alive for you when you heard her reading? You just mentioned the accents for Noah, which I think is a big one, but is there anything else that stands out to you?
- [56:23]
B
I mean, so weirdly, this is hyper specific, but she made Dave so funny to me. Dave's one of AJ's really close friends. He's her roommate. And every time she was Dave, I literally squealed. In my house, I'd be sitting there with my earbuds in, and Dave would say something and be like, ah. And Kevin, my husband, is like, dave again. And I'm like, yes. He's like, I didn't know he talked so much in this book. So that's really specific thing. But, yeah, the plays at the end, again, without too much of a spoiler, it's like. It's so exhilarating when she's going through it's essentially an epic theater countdown, and that I was crying the whole time. I actually listened to it the night before pub night because I timed up my listen to pub day, so I was listening to the last section of the book the night before going on sale and just weeping in bed. I'm a Pisces, so that's heaven to me.
- [57:17]
A
I was just gonna ask you. We're not ending yet, but before we end, you're gonna have to tell me what your sign is, because you keep talking about everybody else's sign.
- [57:25]
B
Yes, I'm a triple Pisces. I'm what's called a Steelium, which is. I have three personal planets in one sign. So Bad Bunny and I are both Pisces Steelium. If you were getting some of that vibe from me, that's probably why it's
- [57:39]
A
so crazy you mentioned that. Cause I was sitting here thinking, wow, I'm talking to Bad Bunny right now.
- [57:44]
B
I know, I know, I know. I just wanted to validate that for you. You don't have to be uncomfortable about it. It's fine.
- [57:54]
A
Okay. So something I've seen people especially responding to is the way that the two characters, AJ and Noah, are more raw and messy and, dare I say, toxic.
- [58:04]
B
I think it's interesting because it depends on how you view it. A lot of people view it as multiple breakups, whereas I view them as never having been together until, like, they actually are the one time. However, I think that their ways of coping are not healthy in multiple situations. And I think there are certain stubbornnesses. Like Noah really resists therapy, which I think, hopefully you walk away with an understanding of why that is. And ultimately, AJ does prevail on him about that. But I think AJ's way of coping with her loss of Noah is literal substance abuse. So, yeah, they're absolutely toxic aspects to their choices and how they handle their dynamic.
- [58:47]
A
This is particularly interesting to me because I think a lot of the narratives that we've seen in books and on screen over the last five years are more buttoned up. They're less raw. They're very. Nobody wants this. And I'm alluding to the show, not that nobody wants this. And yours reminded me more of, like, a classic Romeo and Juliet romance.
- [59:12]
B
Yeah.
- [59:13]
A
Was that a decision you made, or is that just how you like to write?
- [59:17]
B
Actually, neither, I think, like we were talking about earlier, like, where it comes from and how much is from me and how much is from not. It's like, at a certain point, they're drawing off my life force. And then they eventually lift off and become real people. I'm just monitoring them. And I think my job and the commitment that I make when I write a book is to sit and witness and bear the pain and watch them do ugly things and tell the truth about it. Like, I have to tell the absolute truth. I cannot candy coat or gloss. So it wasn't really an active choice on my part. It was more like I had made this commitment to follow them to the end, to whatever end, and to show them not necessarily in the best light, but in the most truthful one. So what you have in into the Blue is a portrait of very flawed, beautiful people and their very real responses to each other and this, like, pretty devastating stuff that happens to them and comes at them over the course of their life. And to your point, it's like, the response isn't always glamorous, but I think it is true.
- [60:17]
A
It's soulful, though.
- [60:18]
B
Yeah. Yeah.
- [60:19]
A
It feels like a soul connection.
- [60:21]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [60:22]
A
One of the big themes that this book explores is coming to terms with your deepest, most vulnerable hopes for yourself. And I want to read one of my favorite quotes from the book. You write, it is a terrible thing to stand in the wings, haunted by the specter of your younger sel. And we hear this quote a few times throughout the book. And every time I read it, it gave me chills because it's motivation to literally jump into the blue, the unknown, even if it's scary, even if you want to talk yourself out of it. And I want to ask you a very personal question. What is that thing for you?
- [61:04]
B
You know, I think if it had to be anything, it would be not taking a chance on myself as a writer sooner. Like, I think it took me a very long time to want to sit in this chair and put myself out there. And there's another theme in the book about being seen, which I think also draws from that. Well, I also think that for me, like, there have been things where I have jumped in and maybe could have done a safer choice. So I think the book also allowed me to examine, like, maybe it is okay to ultimately take a risk, even if I didn't think it through super hard in the first place.
- [61:39]
A
You're saying that the risk is always worth it in your mind.
- [61:42]
B
I think if it's something that calls to your soul, it is.
- [61:48]
A
If you don't mind me asking, like, what. What were those things that came to your mind?
- [61:52]
B
Like, getting married? Like, my husband's older. And that's always loomed large for Me, because, you know, odds are he will go first, which I tell him every night. He loves that. So I think that that's definitely in the mix. But it's such a big commitment and the things that we've had to face as a couple since getting married are so huge and things that I wouldn't have necessarily seen coming. And I think there are times in every long term relationship where you are like, oh, wait, this is real. Like, oh, whoa. This isn't just gonna be fun all the time. And sometimes that stuff can go on for a very long time. But ultimately it is worth it because when you pull through, it's like there's no better feeling. And then you have just a deeper well of trust and resourcefulness together.
- [62:44]
A
Yeah. You've unlocked a whole new level.
- [62:45]
B
Whole new level. Many levels. Yes.
- [62:48]
A
Yeah. Beautifully said, Emma. Thank you. I love speaking with you. And also your book. I closed the book and I. I felt like I could be more brave and like, what a gift when you're reading a story. So thank you.
- [63:02]
B
Thank you so much. I love talking to you too. This is great.
- [63:08]
A
Okay, friends, lovers of words, my people, before you go, it's that time of the month when we're counting down to the big announcement. The May Reese's Book Club pick. I already can't wait. And I'm excited to share that our partners at Apple Books are are once again offering a free book drop where they are giving away up to 1,000 ebooks of the current pick. It's part of the spring's most anticipated collection from Apple Books, which you can check out at Apple co bestofspring. Are you ready for a hint as to what the May pick could be? Okay, let's play our favorite game, Two clues and a lie. I'm gonna share three phrases with you. Two of them are deeply connected to the book, and one is purely a distraction. Okay, here we go. The first phrase is hey, Upper East Siders. The second is a brush with crime. The third and final is here comes the bride. So which one of these things does not belong? And do the two clues remaining tip you off to the May pick? If you have a guess, let me know. Leave me a voice memo at five zero one. We'll only be releasing clues here on the podcast moving forward, so make sure to tune back in for more future hints. If you want to be among the 1,000 people to get a code and redeem a free ebook, all you have to do is follow Apple Books at Apple Books and Reese's Book Club. Reese's Book Club, both on Instagram to get notified about next month's free book drop. That's it for this episode of Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. Our phone line is now open, so if you want to go 90s on us, give us a call at 1-501-291-3379. That's 1-501-291-33790. Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't overthink it. Give us a ring and if you want more, come hang with us. Reese's Book Club is on Instagram serving up books, good vibes and all the behind the scenes stuff you love. And I'm Danielle Robay, R O B A Y so come say hi and please seriously DM me because I actually read them and I love hearing what you think about the episodes. And don't forget to follow. Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the I Heart Rate Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. We'll see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts, executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robay, production by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez and Sarah Schlied. Our editor is Carmen Borca Carillo. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus, Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter, our executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla, Ashley Rapaport and Sarah Kernerman are associate producers for Reese's Book Club and Ali Perry is executive producer for iHeart podcasts. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more at thefabricofourlives.com the autograph journey Credit Card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book, your favorite hotel, site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the autographed Journey Card from Wells Fargo. Learn more@wells fargo.com autographjourney terms apply. Apple Books is the best way to read or listen to the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone and a heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club so you can discover every exciting pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set and track your reading goals and get great recommendations for your next read or listen. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co Reese. That's R E E S e Applebooks to find out more. I'm partnering with Simple Mills and I have now found a new Go to Reading snack. Simple Mills Almond Flour Crackers Think of this as a quick book style review because these crackers deserve it. The premise? A snack that feels light, not heavy. Made with almond flour, sunflower seeds and flaxseeds. Nutrient dense ingredients your body can use, not empty carbs and the taste crunchy classic flavors that leave you feeling energized. For a good plot twist, try Popums. Cheesy, airy, poppable crackers packed with veggies. Final Verdict these are a shelf staple. Find Simple Meals at your grocery store. This is an I heart podcast. Guaranteed human.