From Page to Screen: Inside "Lucky" Live with Author Marissa Stapley

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club

Episode: From Page to Screen: Inside "Lucky" Live with Author Marissa Stapley
Host: Danielle Robay
Guest: Marissa Stapley, Author of "Lucky"
Date: July 21, 2026
Presented by: Apple Books & Hello Sunshine

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Episode Overview

This special live episode of Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club dives deep into the journey of Marissa Stapley’s electric thriller, Lucky, as it travels from page to audiobook to its latest incarnation as an Apple TV series produced by Hello Sunshine. Host Danielle Robay sits down with Marissa in front of an enthusiastic New York City audience (fresh off a “story walk” listening to the first chapter) to discuss the inspiration, themes, adaptation process, and enduring relevance of the morally complex antiheroine Lucky Armstrong. The conversation explores issues of legacy, gender representation in crime stories, empathy, and what it means to own—and reframe—your own narrative.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origin and Inspiration of "Lucky"

• Unique Conception:
  Marissa reveals "Lucky" is the first book she conceptualized around a plot first, rather than a character—struck by a real-life news story about an unclaimed, multimillion-dollar lottery ticket.
  • “Authors move through the world like magpies, looking for shiny objects to steal and put in their nest.” – Marissa Stapley (04:54)
• Character Creation:
  Lucky Armstrong, the protagonist, appeared to Marissa "like someone sitting down next to her on a bus" as she texted her agent mid-draft of another book. Her agent’s advice: “I think you need to drop everything and chase this. It’s the best idea you’ve ever had.” (06:08)
• Gender and Genre:
  The lack of female con artists in literature and film motivated Marissa.
  • “There are so many male-centered stories... I really wanted to create a female-centered one and what a woman would bring to the table.” (07:16)

2. On Complex Women and Antiheroes

• Making Lucky Lovable:
  Marissa structured the novel to introduce Lucky’s childhood early, encouraging empathy.
  • “If people see her as a child, they will give her the kind of love and empathy that they don’t give to adults.” (08:41)
• Not a Villain:
  • “I think you can outrun your past... I don’t think that anyone is really a villain. Everyone can change.” (10:04)
• Morality and Empathy:
  The story explores how good people can make bad choices and how context matters.

3. Genre Hopping: Blending Romance and Thrillers

• Romantic Elements:
  Marissa brings the emotional texture of romance into the con artist thriller, making the love story central but complicated.
  • “I borrowed [from romance]... what he looked like and what he felt like and what kissing him felt like... because... I wanted everyone to get behind their love story, if only to twist the knife about it.” (11:02)
• The Happy Ending Contract of Romance:
  Unlike her thrillers, Marissa relishes the "promise" of happy endings in her holiday romance writing and how it provides creative relief. (11:48)

4. Researching the Con Artist Life

• Getting the Details Right:
  Marissa leveraged library books, internet videos, and Google alerts to authentically depict grifts and cons.
  • “YouTube videos on short changing, counting cards... you can find anything on the internet, for better or for worse.” (12:41)
• Memorable Real-life Con:
  A story of a woman conned into believing she was dating Bruno Mars online—used as a lens to discuss the vulnerability of people seeking love.
  • “Most people do just want love... If you exploit that, there’s almost nothing that a person won’t give you. And that is heartbreaking.” (13:40)

5. From Page to Screen: Adapting "Lucky"

• Adapting for Apple TV:
  The series brought together an all-star cast (Anya Taylor-Joy, Annette Bening, Timothy Oliphant, Aunjanue Ellis-Taylor, Drew Starkey).
  • Marissa describes feeling “lucky” and superstitious, sharing personal habits and good luck charms. (15:52, 16:01)
• Emotional Reactions to TV Adaptation:
  Watching her work brought to life, Marissa likens it to watching her “baby... all grown up.” Despite the story’s chaos, seeing her character on the screen felt comforting.
  • “It feels like a comfort watch to me. I just was like, ah, there you are, Lucky.” (35:56)
• The Magic of Female-Centered Crime:
  Excited for audiences to see women occupy roles usually reserved for men, especially Annette Bening’s “unhinged maternal mob boss.”
  • “That unhinged maternal energy... I don’t think I’ve ever seen a character like that.” (38:22)

6. Themes of Legacy, Family, and Resilience

• Dedication to Her Mother:
  Marissa discusses how her single mother modeled resilience—echoed in Lucky’s journey.
  • “She taught me how to be brave and resilient, but not to grift.” (21:56)
• Rewriting Inherited Narratives:
  The story explores how you can break family patterns and create new legacies.
  • “You don’t have to repeat patterns... If those don’t feel healthy for you, just take some power back.” (39:27)

7. Influences and Storytelling

• From Anne of Green Gables to Ann Patchett:
  Marissa draws inspiration from stories with complex, often unlikable, yet deeply human female characters—empathy as the throughline.
  • “Ann Patchett is probably the chief empathy officer of the writing world.” (28:43)
• On Adaptation:
  She acknowledges the necessity of change in adapting stories across mediums.
  • “Books and movies are like apples and oranges... your source material, if it’s done well... will still shine through.” (40:31)

8. Audiobooks as a Unique Experience

• Audiobook Performance:
  Ensemble casts and production can bring new life to a book.
  • Favorites mentioned: Daisy Jones and the Six (Taylor Jenkins Reid), The Handmaid’s Tale (Margaret Atwood), Viola Davis's memoir. (31:44, 41:38)
• On Listening:
  Marissa prefers to listen to audiobooks while being driven or doing chores—“passenger princess” mode. (10:34)
• What Audiobooks Add:
  • “When you can be doing something and walking and in the world in a different way, I think reading audiobooks somehow also brings a visual element.” (32:14)

9. Memorable/Lighter Moments

• Dream Grifts:
  Marissa imagines pulling off a heist as a window cleaner (“even though I’m afraid of heights”) while Danielle would “fake” being a restaurant critic. (14:20)
• Speed Read – Rapid-Fire Literary Preferences (41:05)
  • Would narrate Anne of Green Gables for audio (41:57)
  • Wishes she could read Writers & Lovers again for the first time (42:05)
  • Would want Meryl Streep or Anya Taylor-Joy to narrate her memoir (42:28)
  • Educated by Tara Westover shaped her world view (42:41)

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Standout Quotes

• On gender and genre:
  “I really wanted to create a female-centered [heist]. What would a woman bring to the table?” – Marissa Stapley (07:16)
• On moral grayness:
  “If we’re all very honest with ourselves, we all have sides... that are a little bit gray. No one is perfect. We get in real trouble seeing everything in black and white.” – Marissa Stapley (25:43)
• On adaptation:
  “Books and movies are like apples and oranges... your source material... will still shine through, but you need to let it be more visual.” – Marissa Stapley (40:31)
• On empathy:
  “Ann Patchett [is] the chief empathy officer of the writing world.” – Marissa Stapley (28:43)
• On resilience and family legacy:
  “You don’t have to repeat patterns... just take some power back.” – Marissa Stapley (39:27)
• On her personal ‘lucky charm’:
  “Every time I get on a plane, I have to touch the outside of it or else it will crash.” – Marissa Stapley (16:01, with a laugh)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Intro & Setting the Scene: 02:35–04:20
• Inspiration for Lucky: 04:26–06:51
• Creating a Female Con/Antihero: 07:01–08:41
• Empathy for Antiheroes/Childhood Narrative: 08:41–10:04
• Romance Influences: 11:02–11:48
• Happy Endings in Genre Writing: 11:48–12:21
• Researching Cons/Grifts: 12:34–13:56
• Real-Life Cons: 13:16–13:56
• Dream Grifts (Fun Segment): 14:07–15:22
• Adapting for TV: 15:23–16:56, 35:50–38:22
• Parental Influence, Legacy: 21:40–24:05
• On Moral Complexity: 25:20–26:33
• Literary Influences (Anne of Green Gables, Ann Patchett): 26:38–28:43
• On Adaptation/Staying True to the Story: 40:31–41:00
• Speed Read – Rapid-Fire Book Questions: 41:03–43:10

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Conclusion

This episode is an insightful, lively exploration of how stories change as they move from page to screen—and why stories like Lucky, with their complex, flawed, but ultimately relatable women at the center, are so vital right now. Whether discussing con artists, adaptation, or resilience, Marissa Stapley underscores the importance of empathy and the power of rewriting your own narrative—even if you have to break a few (heist) rules along the way.

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Transcript

[Danielle Robay]

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[Reese's Book Club Host]

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[Danielle Robay]

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[Reese's Book Club Host]

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi, I'm Danielle Robay and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. This week we are bringing you guys into the room and sharing a live podcast recording that we taped this weekend. It was hosted by Apple Books and hello Sunshine. It was in New York City. The weather was wild and the audience was into it. It all felt like a fitting venue to discuss Marissa Stapley's electric thriller, Lucky, a Reese's Book club pick from 2001. And now an Apple TV series produced by hello Sunshine. We all had just gotten back from

[Danielle Robay]

a story walk where we listened to

[Reese's Book Club Host]

the first chapter of Lucky's audiobook while we trekked around the city. Central park, to be exact. And like, I'm not telling you guys what to do, you know, but not a bad way to spend an afternoon. Something that I love about hosting a book club podcast is that we get to explore all the ways that a story can be told from page to audio to screen. You know, a scene that simmers on the page can be electric as an audiobook. A simple conversation when heard through your headphones can take on a totally new context. And Lucky is a story that gets to live many lives all at once. Book form when it flew off the shelves in 2021 audiobook form, where it's been enchanting listeners for years. And now as an Apple TV series produced by hello Sunshine. But at the heart of all of these lives is the main character, a woman named Lucky. And her spark and drive and determination to finally, after a lifetime of hiding, look the truth right in the eyes. Oh, it's so good, you guys. I think we're all in the right place today. Let's turn the page with Marissa Stapley.

[Danielle Robay]

Marissa, I can officially welcome you to the club.

[Marissa Stapley]

Thank you.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Best club to be in.

[Marissa Stapley]

It is the best club.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, it is. I'm so happy to chat with you. The premise of this book is so action packed with. We follow a young, very seasoned con woman named Lucky Armstrong who goes on the run after stealing millions of dollars with her boyfriend. So fun. She's living under an alias alone.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

And then she realizes that the lottery

[Danielle Robay]

ticket she bought right before she went on the run is a huge winner. But to cash it in means owning up to who she really is. And it's a real thriller. What in the world inspired this story.

[Marissa Stapley]

So Lucky is the first and only time so far that I came up with a. A concept and a plot, and I didn't have a character. I was on vacation with my family in New York State, actually. So I'm Canadian, and we have lotteries, but our lottery payouts are very modest compared to the hundred like the mega millions here. So there was a radio report we were listening to as we approached. We were skiing the ski hill, and they were talking about an unclaimed lottery ticket for hundreds of millions of dollars that was about to expire the next day. And it. It had not been claimed. Authors move through the world like magpies, looking for shiny objects to steal and put in their nest. So I immediately was like, oh, shiny objects. So I stopped and I was listening, and one of the radio DJs said, you know, I heard sometimes people don't come forward if there's a warrant out for their arrest, because if they come forward, they'll get arrested and then they won't be able to claim their winnings. And I put that in my nest and kept that, but I didn't have a character, and I had to wait and wait. And finally one day Lucky came to me and I knew that I had something really special.

[Danielle Robay]

Did she come to you in a dream? What do you mean she came to you?

[Ad Voice]

Oh, she came.

[Marissa Stapley]

I know.

[Danielle Robay]

I'm sorry.

[Marissa Stapley]

I'm so used to it. It is a little bit.

[Guest/Co-host]

Woo woo.

[Marissa Stapley]

I am very grounded. But I. I actually was on a bus going to visit my mom, and Lucky spends a lot of time on the bus and had this story, but couldn't. Couldn't think of a character. And I do feel like she sat down beside me on the bus. I started. I have proof of this because I took up my phone out and I started texting my agent. I was two thirds of the way through a first draft of the Lightning Bottles, which came out later, and contractually obligated to write that book. Like, you don't just text your agent and say, hey, I have this new idea. And I started doing that. I'm like, okay, it's Lucky Armstrong. The book is called Lucky. I started explaining it to her, and she texted back and said, I think you need to drop everything and chase this. It's the best idea you've ever had.

[Danielle Robay]

I got so excited about it because I grew up watching shows and reading books about con men. I love a con, and I'd never

[Reese's Book Club Host]

read about a con woman.

[Danielle Robay]

This is the first one I've seen. Did you Grow up reading about con women.

[Marissa Stapley]

No. And even when I really didn't realize

[Danielle Robay]

that was funny, you guys are doing

[Marissa Stapley]

great with the laugh track. Thank you. No, I mean, we didn't.

[Guest/Co-host]

Right.

[Marissa Stapley]

Like, I think that's part of the beauty of Lucky. It's part of the beauty of hello Sunshine. In the stories they choose, where we center women in these situations that most of the time, male characters have done and done very well. You know, there's a lot of stuff to consume in that arena, but I hadn't. And I had actually just watched Ocean's Eleven, rewatched it with my son, and was thinking, oh, gosh, people love a heist story. Getting conned in real life is not fun. But for some reason, watching con artists do their thing is like catnip. There are so many male centered stories, and I really wanted to create a female centered one and what a woman would bring to the table.

[Danielle Robay]

I think we're all so glad you did. We just got back from our story walk where we listened to the first chapter of Lucky together on Apple Books, and it is so intense. I feel like we all kept walking faster as we were listening. If you could pair this book with a specific type of walk, City, nature, solo, or social, what would you choose and why?

[Marissa Stapley]

I think it would have to be social because I think it's the kind of book where you want to end a chapter and then have a conversation with the person who you're walking and listening with.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I agree. It's evocative.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Was there a scene in the beginning of the book that you were especially excited for people to hear?

[Marissa Stapley]

I really do think it's that prologue in the first chapter. I wrote Lucky a first draft in a very. In a linear way. I only had the present tense. I knew I had a criminal on my hands, and it was so important to me. And I don't mind if my characters are not universally likable. But Lucky needed to be. You needed. I needed her to be loved. She needs. I needed people in the same way she wants to be a good person. I needed people to see the good in her. And I was struggling because all you see in the present is those choices that she's making. And then I think I may have listened to a podcast or something, and they were talking about extending love to your inner child. And I. I saw it in my head and I thought, oh, if people see her as a child, they will give her the kind of love and empathy that they don't give to adults. And so we need to Back it up and understand exactly where she came from. I sat down in my living room, I typed out that scene. My kids were little, or at the time they were sitting in the living room. And I said to them, stop what you're doing. I'm going to read you this first chapter, which I've never done. And they sat there and then when I was done, I said, would you keep reading? And they were like, do you have more? We're really in. So I was excited for other people to hear that too. What a smart narrative tool.

[Danielle Robay]

I've never thought about that. Do you consider Lucky a villain?

[Marissa Stapley]

No. Is that weird? No, not at all.

[Mandy Woodruff Santos]

No.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, me neither.

[Marissa Stapley]

No, no. And I don't. I mean, we may talk about this later, but I think you can outrun your past. I think, you know, we are all the product of the choices we're given. I don't think that anyone is really a villain. Everyone can change.

[Guest/Co-host]

So.

[Marissa Stapley]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

What is your favorite audiobook? Listening mode. Are you walking, driving, doing the dishes. Fully in it, either doing the dishes,

[Marissa Stapley]

but which I rarely do.

[Danielle Robay]

Good for you.

[Marissa Stapley]

Or. And also I just got my license last summer and I'm more of a passenger princess. So like driving, but someone else driving while I'm listening.

[Danielle Robay]

So you are a real genre hopper in your writing, which is a term I may have just made up, but what I mean by that is that you've written romance, you've written holiday romance, you've done a classic thriller. What is something you borrowed from romance that you brought into writing? Lucky.

[Marissa Stapley]

I love the scenes where Lucky and Carrie meet. I really do. I think even though we know how complicated it is, there is a genuine love between them. It is very, very kismet based, as he says to her. And so I sort of borrowed like those, you know, the sensory details and, you know, what he looked like and what he felt like and what kissing him felt like and all of that, like the headiness of falling in love. I borrowed that because as much as I need people to care about Lucky and not see her as a villain, I really wanted everyone to get behind their love story, if only to twist the knife about it.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I felt the romance in there. And I know you write holiday romance too, which is like such a. It's such an interesting departure.

[Marissa Stapley]

Yeah, I have so much fun with it. The thing about romance, and if there are romance fans in the room, you know, happy ending is a non negotiable. It's a contract. And I really like that because I do terrible things to my Characters and happy endings are not guaranteed. So sitting down and going, I know where we're heading, and it could get tricky and messy, but it's a happy ending, and that's a promise I've made to my reader and myself, is a real relief. I don't know how well I would be if I didn't have that relief

[Ad Voice]

every once in a while.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

The contract's important.

[Marissa Stapley]

Yeah, I agree.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. So you talked about researching a grift. How do you do that? Do you go on Reddit threads? Are you stalking, like, con man Reddit boards? How does this work?

[Marissa Stapley]

I don't know if I found a con man Reddit board. I actually just fell into Reddit recently,

[Danielle Robay]

so I'm so sorry.

[Marissa Stapley]

But with Lucky, first thing I do is I go to the Toronto Public Library. I take out every book about, you know, fiction, nonfiction. You can find anything on the Internet, for better or for worse. So YouTube videos on short changing counting cards, like, let me walk you through these seven different cons that is all available on the Internet, and you can become anyone you want to be. And it does get a little weird when you know how well you know how to do these things.

[Danielle Robay]

Was there a real life con that you came across that is so memorable to you?

[Marissa Stapley]

Yes. So I had a Google alert for, like, cons and Griffs at the time too, because I wanted all the news. So there was one. It was like a romance con, and it was a woman who believed she was dating Bruno Mars online, as you do, I guess. And he told her he didn't have enough money for his tour, so she gave him, like, $100,000.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

No.

[Marissa Stapley]

Yeah, I know. And it's so ridiculous. But it also did. I had that reaction, like, I find the love cons are the hardest ones because, like, Lucky does look at people and zero in on the thing that they want the most and then exploits that. And most people do just want love, right?

[Guest/Co-host]

We.

[Marissa Stapley]

We do. And then you.

[Ad Voice]

You can.

[Marissa Stapley]

If you exploit that, there's almost nothing that a person won't give you. And that is heartbreaking.

[Danielle Robay]

I. I usually ask one unhinged question per podcast, so I think this is going to be it. Okay, if you were to do a grift, what are we looking at? What would you choose?

[Marissa Stapley]

So I don't know if it's because of the TV show being so high octane, but I also have given this some thought. And, like, I was looking at window cleaners the other day walking through New York City, and my son and I started Talking about how you could, like, there's so much involved here, like rappelling. Like you, you learn how to be a window cleaner. You, like get onto the building of whatever it is that you want it. This is maybe more of a heist. Like you, you know, and then you get on the balcon, you go in and you take the emerald or whatever it is and then you pretend to be the window cleaner and you just casually go back down. Even though I'm afraid of heights, that's my plan.

[Danielle Robay]

I was thinking about mine and I decided I would be one of those restaurant critics that goes in and like tries all the food, but I wouldn't really be a restaurant critic.

[Marissa Stapley]

I think that's a good one. I think my, like, less high stakes one is wedding crasher too. Just being like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I know the bride. Oh, I know the groom and just like moving through really fancy weddings and like. Mind if I do a little champagne yet?

[Danielle Robay]

Sure, I'll have a sushi appetizer.

[Marissa Stapley]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. Well, let's talk about Lucky making the leap from page to screen. So Lucky has now been turned into an Apple TV series produced by hello Sunshine, starring Anya Taylor, Joy, Annette Bening, Timothy Oliphant, Angenou Ellis Taylor and Drew Starkey. What a cast. I almost just cursed. What a cast. With a hit book, an incredible Apple Books audiobook, and now a major TV show, you must be feeling pretty lucky these days.

[Marissa Stapley]

I truly am. I think I say it all the time. I'm like, sorry, I'm going to say it. I'm feeling lucky.

[Danielle Robay]

Do you have any superstitions or lucky charms?

[Marissa Stapley]

Every time I get on a plane, I have to touch the outside of it or else it will crash. I managed everyone. When we get off the plane, I'm like, you're welcome, you're welcome, you're welcome. I started wearing this lucky friendship bracelet that I made at my future sister in law's shower a month ago and I did take it off for the red carpet premiere, but have been. I've been wearing it ever since and I feel like I'm going to wear it until it falls off and make a wish. I'm very much into those. Like, I just make them up as I go along.

[Danielle Robay]

Though sometimes when I interview athletes, they've told me that they like won't change their underwear if they're on a winning streak. And that's not my favorite one. I much prefer your bracelet. So one thing we have to ask before I go to break, Marissa, is the question that I ask every week what is something you are so obsessed with that you could write a book about it but probably will not.

[Marissa Stapley]

I would love to write a Gossip Girl style novel fictionalized version of the publishing industry. There are so many things I know and it's so unhinged. I think that that would be really, really fun and I might do it someday.

[Danielle Robay]

I think we have a lot of future writers in this room and I'm thinking they want this book.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Whether you're diving into a book solo or looking to meet other readers near you, Riis's book club on WhatsApp is an easy way to bring the joy of reading into your daily life. Join your local city chapter chat for exclusive updates, access to local meetups, and a direct way to stay in the know about bookish happenings near you. Each chapter is designed to help readers connect in their own city to discover local bookstores and gathering spots, and engage in the RBC community beyond the monthly pick. Local chapters are located In Los Angeles, St. Louis, New York, Nashville, Charleston, Chicago, Indianapolis, Austin, Portland and Columbus. Didn't hear your city listed? You can always join our Reese's Book Club WhatsApp channel where we share exclusive updates, host drop ins from our authors, and bring readers behind the scenes of our monthly picks and all of the stories we love. So when you're ready, head over to our Show Notes and click the link to join the conversation on WhatsApp. So I just got back from a trip to Denver, Colorado and wow, is that city amazing. I feel like I ate my way through it. I did not know that Denver had such great food and drinks and restaurants and food halls. I also went mountain biking, which was incredible because all of a sudden you're pedaling and then you look up and you realize you are in the mountains. There's nothing like it. And then I topped off the trip with something on my bucket list, which was a concert at the Red Rocks Amphitheater. Oh, it's so beautiful. Trips like that are truly unforgettable and what makes it even better is booking stays on Airbnb. Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be listing your space on Airbnb. It's a smart, practical way to make use of your place while you're away and earn some extra cash at the same time. And with the co host network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like creating your listing and managing reservations, guest communication on site support and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs. Find a co [e-mail] host nothing compares to the anticipation of something new. A new start, a new year, a new home, or a new car. When it's time to get a new car, where do you start? Car shopping can honestly be a little overwhelming, but it should be fun. Buying your next car should be exciting, and it can be if you remember one cars.com cars.com has the tools and expert advice to help you figure out what vehicle is right for you. Their advanced search filters allow you to explore 2 million new and used cars so that you can find the perfect car. The site is so easy to use, looking for an electric vehicle with a third row and leather seats for easy cleanup, Cars.com has you covered. A variety of tools and badges are used to help shoppers understand the price of a vehicle and find the best deal. And every review is written by a real person reflecting a real life experience, so don't take any chances. Do car shopping the easy way. Start your search with cars.com where to next?

[Ad Voice]

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[Gary Valenciano]

apply We've all been there. We've had seasons that have shaken everything. The question is what remains when the shaken stops? Hi, I'm Gary Valenciano and on my podcast Unshaken with Gary Vee, I sit down with amazing personalities and we talk about the seasons that nearly broke them, the lows that carried them to their highs. Listen to Unshaken with Gary Vee on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Robay]

Marissa, I love the dedication of your book.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

I don't know if this is corny

[Danielle Robay]

of me, but I really love book dedications. I read them over and over again. I have some of my favorites written down and you wrote this book is for my mother, Valerie. She taught me how to be brave

[Reese's Book Club Host]

and resilient but not to grift that

[Danielle Robay]

I had to research what did bravery and resilience look like for you in your house growing up?

[Marissa Stapley]

So my mom was a single mom. She was the like you keep calm and carry on. But she also Was so loving and such a soft place to land for my brother and I. But, you know, she always. If something happened, like, she was just like, that's too bad. You know, life's not fair. I never told you life would be fair. So suck it up, buttercup. Keep going. Keep going. Like, I love you. I'm here. And that was just such an important lesson for me because, you know, I have gotten lucky. Beautiful, wonderful things have happened in my career, but it certainly did not happen overnight. And if I didn't have that resilience that, like, oof, okay, we keep going. We keep going, we wouldn't be here. I owe that to her for sure.

[Danielle Robay]

So Lucky's dad is also a con man, and the story explores the ideas of legacy and inheritance, which I think is so interesting. Did your relationship with your mom as a parental figure color how you wrote parental relationships in the book at all?

[Marissa Stapley]

You know, I think, well, Lucky's looking for her mom, right? So I think there's that. Like, I was so close to my mom. That presence was so important. She had a very strong faith. She had a faith in humanity, and she was very forgiving, but not in a. Like, I'm gonna be a doormat. Like, walk all over me. Like, don't ever do that again. I'm gonna give you another chance. And she just taught me to look at where a person was coming from, to understand. You know, I'm not actually the main character in anyone's story, but my own. And everybody has a story, and I need to seek, you know, what that is and find the empathy to try to understand it, which I also think makes me the author I am today, because I care deeply for all of my characters, even the ones that are somewhat irredeemable.

[Danielle Robay]

This is actually interesting. What do you think it means for you, Marissa, to be the character of your own story right now?

[Marissa Stapley]

You know, because I'm a mother, I have two kids who are getting into adulthood, and I feel like, for me, that family unit is so important. It's that legacy that I'm creating for them. It doesn't feel like it's just about me. And then I really think, like, when I was on the set of Lucky, the most transformative thing for me was ego gratification to see your character and your world come to life. But one of the stuntmen was, like, Marissa Stapley. I paid my rent. My landlord thanks you. And that to that, like, what we owe each other, what we owe the world. And when you have a family you care about, you want to make the world a better place. And it can feel overwhelming, but you start where you are and do what you can with what you have to work with. And I think that's what this experience has meant and that's. I think who I am. But like, creating jobs is very rewarding to me.

[Danielle Robay]

I got chills when you said that because I pictured you on the bus. You kind of got this download from wherever and thought of this character. It was just an idea in your mind. And it created an entire ecosystem. Right.

[Marissa Stapley]

Hundreds and hundreds of people working. And I think people loved working on Lucky.

[Danielle Robay]

So, yeah, she lives in this really interesting morally gray area. Sometimes I was watching, Sometimes I love her, sometimes I hate her. She does some really objectively bad things, but you can't help but root for her somehow. She's a very interesting antihero. What is it about a fundamentally good person making bad choices that fascinates you?

[Marissa Stapley]

I mean, I think if we're all very honest with ourselves, we all have sides of ourselves that are a little bit gray. No one is perfect. And I think we get in real trouble when we start to see everything in black and white. There is a great line in the show about sort of the degrees of being a bad person, and I don't want to spoil it. You know what I mean? It's something John says to Lucky kind of mid season. And I think that's an important thing to consider. You know, we all have the capability as humans to be bad, but what that also means is we all have even the worst among us, I believe the capability to be good. And I think that's something we need to think about because it's important in turning a lot of things around right now. It's like, I don't have to be this person all the time. I can make different choices.

[Danielle Robay]

I see you writing like Marvel movies, right? Like all these anti heroes.

[Marissa Stapley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

I know that you're a big Anne of Green Gables fan, and I found some crossover between Lucky and that book. Anne certainly is a good soul who behaves in some really frustrating ways. Was there a specific character or book or even a writer that inspired you while you were writing Lucky?

[Marissa Stapley]

You know, it's interesting. By the way, I just realized about the red headed orphan, like, how inspired it was, like subconscious. I think while I was writing Lucky, I was looking for morally complex characters and seeking authors who just have that deep love of their characters. I was looking to some of my favorite authors like Ann Patchett and Elizabeth Strout in particular. Even there's a novel called Olive Kittredge, also turned into a miniseries starring Frances McDormand. And you think to yourself, like, she's not nice.

[Danielle Robay]

She's.

[Marissa Stapley]

You know, she's not nice to her family. It's so different. She's not a con artist, but this is like a masterclass in, like, everybody has a story, and everybody has goodness and light and love in them. So that kind of really basic, like, deep understanding of characters is always so inspiring to me when I'm writing.

[Danielle Robay]

What do you love about Ann Patchett's writing? We just had her on the pod.

[Marissa Stapley]

Oh, my goodness. She just. She gets you. You know, I feel like I really love page turners most of the time. I almost have to do something to myself to get into an Ann Patchett novel. Like, talk to myself and say, like, just.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

It's gonna be slower.

[Marissa Stapley]

Like, it's. You know, she's building up to something, but the next thing you know,

[Danielle Robay]

you

[Marissa Stapley]

have tears streaming down your face. And I think, too, for her, she, like me, has a bit of a complicated sort of family back, like, you know, with blended families and that sort of thing. So I think, especially in Whistler, the way she approached that and how people in your life that maybe aren't in your life anymore still affect you.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

I don't know.

[Marissa Stapley]

She's just so good at that. But she's probably the chief empathy officer of the writing world.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, I love that title.

[Marissa Stapley]

Gave that to her.

[Danielle Robay]

That's a really good.

[Marissa Stapley]

We should let her know.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, Yeah. I think you need to DM her that.

[Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

She needs to put it in her Instagram bio. So we talk a lot about the art of adaptation on bookmarked, because bringing something from page to screen, or even going from a physical book to an audiobook takes so much skill and nuance. When you're writing a book, are you ever thinking about the other places it's going to live?

[Marissa Stapley]

You know, with Lucky, I really did. I actually felt. When I came up with that idea, I thought. I kind of tried to pitch my agents after a few weeks on, why don't I just write this into a pilot? Like, this should be a TV show. I don't usually do that. I try to kind of keep it, you know, the door closed in my office and just be thinking about what's happening between me and the characters. But with Lucky, it was everything. It was very, very. It felt visual, it felt audio. It felt out there already.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. When you were writing, were you thinking about hearing the dialogue come to life in the audiobook? As well.

[Guest/Co-host]

I.

[Marissa Stapley]

Well, most authors do. When you're writing dialogue, the best thing to do. And if there are aspiring writers here, read it aloud to yourself. I don't think that I' ever written a successful scene of dialogue without sitting there going like. Like maybe talking puppets. Now that I'm. You just. You realize it sounds natural or it doesn't. Like, one thing that sometimes I might do is the person says the other person's name so many times, like Danielle. Oh, that's an interesting question. Danielle. Danielle. And that's not natural, Right? So you take out all those unnatural little quirks, and you need to hear it yourself.

[Danielle Robay]

Do you make your son play the other character?

[Marissa Stapley]

I've never done that, but maybe I will now.

[Danielle Robay]

He wears so many hats in your life. Jesse should add that one little shout out to you. Joseph, was there a moment in the audiobook that surprised you at all?

[Marissa Stapley]

So I think that those moments when Lucky is alone, she's on the bus later, and she's got her copy of Les Mis, which is Les Miserables, which she finds in a used bookstore. And just listening to those quiet, emotional moments, it surprised me how I was right back there in my seat feeling those emotions with her.

[Danielle Robay]

Without spoilers, are you able to share why you chose Les Mis as the book?

[Marissa Stapley]

It's just, you know, I think because in Les Mis, the punishment far outweighs the crime. And, you know, I think in Les Mis, you see someone who is perceived as a criminal and what that does to them, and it changes their life and they become darker and darker and choice is taken away. And that's why I chose it. Like, just, you know, you don't know where people are coming from. And you may see the worst criminal and the circumstances would probably surprise you. And Jean Valjean is a classic case of that, you know, he stole a baguette.

[Danielle Robay]

What are some of your favorite audiobooks?

[Marissa Stapley]

Oh, my goodness.

[Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Marissa Stapley]

So I do have so many I really, really love. And fellow Reese's Pick author Taylor Jenkins reads Daisy Jones and the Six and done by the ensemble cast. That is a really wonderful way to listen to an audiobook. Fellow Canadian Margaret Atwood's Handmaid's Tale, also done by the cast.

[Danielle Robay]

It really comes to life when you hear all the different voices. To share Lucky in a new medium means that it has to bring something new to the story.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

What does the audiobook bring?

[Marissa Stapley]

I think when you're reading, your brain is busy in a different way. I find it's almost fuzzy when I'm reading, and I'M picturing things like it's sort of tinted and you don't see the characters as clearly. But when you can be doing something and walking and in the world in a different way, I think reading audiobooks somehow also brings a visual element. I can see things more clearly in my.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Nothing compares to the anticipation of something new, a new start, a new year, a new home, or a new car. When it's time to get a new car, where do you start? Car shopping can honestly be a little overwhelming, but it should be fun. Buying your next car should be exciting. And it can be if you remember one thing. Cars.com cars.com has the tools and expert advice to help you figure out what vehicle is right for you. Their advanced search filters allow you to explore 2 million new and used cars so that you can find the perfect car. The site is so easy to use. Looking for an electric vehicle with a third row and leather seats for easy cleanup, Cars.com has you covered. A variety of tools and badges are used to help shoppers understand the price of a vehicle and find the best deal. And every review is written by a real person reflecting a real life experience. So don't take any chances. Do car shopping the easy way. Start your search with cars.com where to next?

[Gary Valenciano]

We've all been there. We've had seasons that have shaken everything. The question is, what remains when the shaking stops? Hi, I'm Gary Valenciano and on my my podcast Unshaken with Gary Vee. I sit down with amazing personalities and we talk about the seasons that nearly broke them, the lows that carried them to their highs. Listen to Unshaken with Gary Vee on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ad Voice]

The more you listen to your kids, the closer you'll be. So we asked kids, what do you want your parents to hear? I feel sometimes that I'm not listened to. I would just want you to listen to me more often and evaluate situations with me and lead me towards success. Listening is a form of love. Find resources to help you support your kids and their emotional well [e-mail] that's sounditouttogether.org brought to you by the ad

[Juliana]

council and pivotal Bill why is my eye twitching? Does this mean I'm in perimenopause? Maybe I have adult adhd. I need to look this up. Where's my phone?

[Co-host with Juliana]

Juliana, your phone is hot to the touch. I think it's asking you for a break.

[Juliana]

You know what? Maybe I should just ask ChatGPT.

[Co-host with Juliana]

Or maybe we can ask an actual human.

[Juliana]

Yes, like a couple sex therapist.

[Co-host with Juliana]

Whoa, that escalated quickly.

[Juliana]

But okay, because I have questions.

[Co-host with Juliana]

We have questions.

[Juliana]

And I bet everyone has questions like, is it normal to sleep in separate bedrooms? We do that.

[Co-host with Juliana]

How about this one? Is bribing your kids bad parenting or just negotiating?

[Juliana]

Oh, and I still do need to know, why was my poop green that one time?

[Co-host with Juliana]

Hypothetically. Right. Okay, well, instead of letting the Internet guess we've got actual people answering these

[Juliana]

exact questions and laughing with us has got to be better than spending three hours down a rabbit hole online.

[Co-host with Juliana]

Listen to Bill and Juliana, the podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast Podcasts.

[Danielle Robay]

Lucky is now an Apple TV series. I'm so curious how you felt watching the first episode.

[Marissa Stapley]

Oh, my goodness. I felt like I was getting on a plane, knowing it was going to be turbulent. And I was actually really frightened, because you don't. I knew I'd seen the scripts. I knew that it was probably going to be good and I would probably be thrilled, but I was like, oh, what if I don't? What? Like, this is. This is my baby. Like, here she is, all grown up and. And, you know, running through, setting things on fire and all that.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Literally.

[Marissa Stapley]

Literally. So I was surprised by the fact that actually, and I told this to Anya at the premiere, it feels like a comfort watch to me. I just was like, ah, there you are. Like, there you are, Lechi. No matter how much hot water she's put in, it's her. It is this character I created who I feel like. I know who I feel like sat down with me on a bus one day, and she's there and is such a peace. Peaceful feeling. Even though there is, you know, a certain amount of things getting set on fire.

[Danielle Robay]

I was going to say, I don't know that I got peace.

[Marissa Stapley]

It's an unusual answer, but it is really how I felt. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

What I think is so interesting is social media has made so few things mysterious anymore. We have insight into so much, and I think the publishing industry and TV and film and even audiobooks are some of the few things left that there's so much mystery. And we all think, like, how did that get made? How did that happen? So you've had that, you know, the publishing industry, but I think to experience it in TV must have been a whole new world.

[Marissa Stapley]

Yeah. I actually envision the hello, Sunshine and Apple Group, everyone jumping through flaming hoops. That's how things get made. You have to jump through flaming hoops. And somehow they did it and felt like they were riding a unicorn because so many Lucky breaks happened for this to happen. And I'm just delighted by all of it.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

So set the scene for us.

[Danielle Robay]

Are you at your home in Canada? Who are you watching with? Are you too nervous to eat? Are you eating Mike and Ikes? Like, what's going on?

[Marissa Stapley]

I was in my basement, like, in our rec room with my husband and daughter and our cats. And when my name came up on the screen as producer, like, we all screamed so loud, and my husband was taking a video, the cats just screamed

[Ad Voice]

out of the room.

[Marissa Stapley]

Like, everyone was terrified. And then I watched it just over and over until the link froze. Like, it was like, just. I think I watched it, like, four times.

[Danielle Robay]

So what are you excited for audiences to discover about Lucky?

[Marissa Stapley]

It's what we talked about. That female character in the roles that we're so used to seeing men in. We were talking about that earlier in the podcast. I'm excited for that discovery. I'm excited as well for Priscilla's character to be discovered. And Nat Bening does such an incredible job. She is absolutely unhinged. And I think we're very used to seeing male mob bosses, and it's sort of the same thing every time. And then we have this mother come in, this, like, the unhinged maternal energy that she brings to the table. I don't think that I've ever seen a character like that, and I'm excited for people to see that and the power that builds in her.

[Danielle Robay]

I think hearing you today, it's so clear that in your writing, you kind of serve up the dessert with the broccoli underneath. Like you, it's so entertaining, but you're also really sort of giving us some moral lessons, almost like an Aesop fable underneath. What do you want people to take away from Lucky's story?

[Marissa Stapley]

It's funny, because that broccoli thing is, like, I don't know. That is exactly how I see it. And I say that to people. I always do want people to take something away. And I really think I want people to look at themselves and the story they've told themselves about maybe their circumstances or their family or what they can and cannot do, and just question that and say, like, I take the resilience, you know, take the courage, the idea that actually you don't have to repeat patterns that have been taught to you in your family. If those. Those don't feel healthy for you, and just take some power back. That's what I really, really, truly want. When? When people finish it.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Beautiful.

[Danielle Robay]

I was reading a Stephen King quote about books and movies and I thought it was so well said. But I'm also going to use more food analogies. Books and movies are like apples and oranges. They are both fruit, but taste completely different. Would you say that's true or false?

[Marissa Stapley]

Absolutely true. And I think as a novelist, you need to understand that and you can protect your characters as much as you want, but I think you need to understand that fruit is different and you must allow the visual medium to thrive and shine. And that might require changes. And your source material, if it's done well, as I believe it is done in Lucky, will still shine through, but you need to let it be more visual.

[Ad Voice]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

I want to play a little game with you called speed Read.

[Marissa Stapley]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

Are you up for it?

[Marissa Stapley]

I'm ready, yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. So what we do is we put 60 seconds on the clock. Our amazing producer is putting 60 seconds on the clock and we're going to see just how many rapid fire literary questions you can get through. So today's conversation is in partnership with Apple Books. We just completed our story walk and this speed read is the official Apple Books audiobook edition. Are you locked in?

[Marissa Stapley]

Locked in.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, three, two, one. What speed do you listen to your audiobooks on? Are you a purist or a double time speed reader?

[Marissa Stapley]

Purist.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Favorite book to recommend?

[Marissa Stapley]

Viola Davis's memoir is a wonderful listen on audiobook.

[Danielle Robay]

You have 10 minutes on the Apple bookstore app. What genre are you clicking on first?

[Marissa Stapley]

I'm going literary.

[Danielle Robay]

What's your favorite audiobook adaptation?

[Marissa Stapley]

I already said this, but I loved Daisy Jones and the series.

[Danielle Robay]

What book that isn't your own? Do you think you could narrate for audio?

[Marissa Stapley]

Anything like by Ella Montgomery, but probably Anne of Green Gables.

[Danielle Robay]

What book do you wish you could read again for the first time?

[Marissa Stapley]

So heart the Lover and the prequel. Writers and Lovers. I wish I could just erase my memory and keep reading those over and over.

[Danielle Robay]

Fiction or non fiction? Which genre would you rather listen to in audiobook form?

[Marissa Stapley]

Oh, maybe nonfiction. Because, you know, you're learning, you're learning more.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I'm with you. Who would narrate your memoir? Audiobook.

[Marissa Stapley]

Okay. Meryl Streep, but also maybe Anya Taylor Joy. Because we know.

[Danielle Robay]

Because you're friends now. Yeah, it's a good humble brag. What book shaped the way you see the world?

[Marissa Stapley]

Educated by Tara Westover. I think about like the gap. You know, education is so important and we're on the clock, so I won't pontificate, but it really changed the way I view the gaps in the world in terms of education and how important education is. And also, again, like, we've got resilience and all the stuff that I really love.

[Danielle Robay]

Education's the great equalizer, right? Yeah. Okay, everybody, Marissa Stapley, round of applause.

[Marissa Stapley]

Thank you, Marissa, so much.

[Ad Voice]

Danielle.

[Danielle Robay]

I love that.

[Guest/Co-host]

Thank you.

[Marissa Stapley]

Thank you,

[Reese's Book Club Host]

You guys. Thank you so much for such a fun first season of Bookmarked. And as much as I love talking books with all of you, even podcasts deserve a little vacation. Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is taking a short break, but don't worry, we're going to be back before you know it. Until then, consider this the perfect opportunity to catch up on the episodes that you've missed this season. We're also booked and busy at Reese's Book Club this summer with our Story Fest series at Hudson Yards, our local city chapter, conversations on WhatsApp, and more. So to stay up to date on all things Rhys's Book Club, make sure to follow us on Instagram and subscribe to our substack. Until next time, my book besties. That's it for this episode of Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. Our phone line is now open, so if you want to go 90s on us, give us a call at 1501-291-3379. That's 1-501-291-3379. Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode, so don't overthink it. Give us a ring and if you want more, come hang with us. Reese's Book Club is on Instagram serving up books, good vibes and all the behind the scenes stuff you love. And I'm R O B A Y so come say hi and please seriously DM me because I actually read them and I love hearing what you think about the episodes. And don't forget to follow. Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. We'll see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of hello Sunshine and iheart Podcast executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robay, production by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez and Sarah Schleed. Our editor is Carmen Borca Carillo. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla, Ashley Rapaport and Sarah Kernerman are associate producers for Reese's Book Club and Ali Perry is executive producer for iHeart podcasts. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton leaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something. Cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives.

[Gary Valenciano]

Lives.

[Reese's Book Club Host]

Learn more at thefabricofourlives.com do you remember

[Guest/Co-host]

in school when your teacher had a favorite of everything? A favorite marker, a favorite element, and even a favorite student who wasn't me. So let's just move on. I want to talk about their real favorite Kleenex tissues. According to teacher lists, Kleenex is the number one facial tissue trusted by teachers. They're silky soft to help with prevent skin irritation. And now with Kleenex, Snap and Go, you can take them anywhere. Stock up on the ultimate classroom favorite

[Reese's Book Club Host]

for whatever happens next.

[Guest/Co-host]

Grab Kleenex.

[Jacob Goldstein]

This is Jacob Goldstein from what's yous Problem? When you think about discovering small brands, what store pops into your mind? Well, it should be Walmart. Seriously, Walmart has thousands of small brands and they're all in one place.

[Co-host with Juliana]

Place.

[Jacob Goldstein]

Just go online or in store. Discover and shop. It could not be easier. Every one of these brands has a real story and real people behind it. They're true American success stories and you can find them all at Walmart. Discover thousands of small [e-mail] today.

[Guest/Co-host]

Can superstars even exist the way they used to?

[Ad Voice]

2016 was sort of that last era of monoculture where we still consume things in community.

[Danielle Robay]

Everybody wanted to be Beyonce at that point.

[Marissa Stapley]

I don't think we'll ever see another Rihanna.

[Guest/Co-host]

What does it mean to be black

[Marissa Stapley]

and eat in America?

[Guest/Co-host]

You will never make me feel bad for being a black girl for being a Black American girl ever. From music to food to the conversations shaping black culture, right now, Therapy for Black Girls is bringing it all to the mic. Listen to Therapy for Black Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Danielle Robay]

This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.