← Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Margo’s Got Money Troubles: From Cult Favorite to TV Binge with Rufi Thorpe
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- [00:00]
Danielle Robay
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books. Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. OnlyFans, pro wrestling and a mother just trying to figure it all out. Rufi Thorpe's Margot's Got Money Troubles is the novel nobody saw coming. And we are getting into all of it.
- [00:23]
Rufi Thorpe
My own experience of motherhood was both shock at how beautiful it was. Like, I felt like how much I loved it. It had really been undersold to me. Like I thought the big beautiful thing in my life was that I was gonna fall in love. I was sort of bowled over by how powerful the experience of becoming a mother and then having to rise to the occasion of mothering was.
- [00:48]
Danielle Robay
But first, it's the first Tuesday of the month, so you know what that means. It's time to announce the Reese's Book Club pick. And you know who's here to announce it all? Well, Reese, who's the April pick?
- [00:59]
Rufi Thorpe
Hey, everybody, it's Reese. I just want to tell you about our April book club pick. It's called into the A Love Story by Emma Brody. It's this really romantic second chance love story about two people who fall really hard for each other. They get pulled apart and then reconnect years later while starring on the same TV show. I loved how it explores fate versus choice and whether we can really rewrite our own stories. It's emotional, escapist, and it's such a fun ride. I think you're really gonna love it.
- [01:29]
Danielle Robay
I cannot wait to chat with Emma Brody at the end of the month. I got an early copy of the book and let me tell you, it is so good. This is an I heart podcast, guaranteed human. The Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book, your favorite hotel site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway, from booking your stay to that first meal, when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply. All the talk of probiotics can get confusing. Which to take? Why? What does it do? Let's make it easy. Garden of Life's Dr. Formulated once daily, women's probiotic is the number one women's probiotic. Why should you take it? Well, Garden of Life transforms a range of probiotic strains to support digestive, immune and vaginal health. Plus, this doctor formulated non GMO formula is designed specifically for women. Simply put, this is an easy way to support your gut health. Garden of Formulas for Feeling Alive Available on Amazon Disclaimer Number 1 based on Circana 52 week multi outlet unit sales ending 113025 these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton leaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something Cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more@the fabricofourlives.com Right now, I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been, and I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music, and I'm going to have to sneak in a museum or two. If you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And now with the Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like managing reservations, guest communication, and even styling your space. Find a co host@airbnb.com host Allergy season always has a way of sneaking up on you. One minute you're listening to your favorite podcast, the next it's nonstop sneezing and a runny nose. That's why it's essential to keep Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues on hand. They're silky soft for up to 100% irritation. Free skin and allergist approved. So when allergies hit and they will be ready with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues for whatever happens next, grab Kleenex. Welcome back to bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. Rufi Thorpe's 2024 novel Margo's Got Money Troubles is funny, messy, so smart and completely addictive. And now it's being Turned into a series on Apple TV plus, premiering April 15th. And it's Star studded. Okay. Elle Fanning, Nicole Kidman, Nick Offerman, and Michelle Pfeiffer. Oh, and David E. Kelly is the showrunner now. Roofie took me back into the creative chaos that inspired the novel from the writing tips she picked up from pro wrestlers. Yes. Actually. To the most realistic, challenging, and fabulous parts of her own journey with motherhood. So if you've ever been just trying to figure life out as a slightly unhinged hot, hot mess, you are in the right place today. Let's turn the page with Rufi Thorpe. Rufi, welcome to the club.
- [05:47]
Rufi Thorpe
Thank you so much for having me.
- [05:49]
Danielle Robay
I'm so happy you're here. Our producers are so happy you're here. We're all such fans of Ruthie Thorpe. And your book, Margo's Got Money Troubles has been adapted into a Show by Apple TV debuting on April 15th. I'm going to be honest. I was not expecting a story about a young single mom who's figuring it all out. Have so much professional wrestling in it.
- [06:13]
Rufi Thorpe
Yeah, you know, I wasn't either. I really just happened to get obsessed. Obsessed with professional wrestling at the time I was writing the book, and then the two things just seemed really thematically related to me.
- [06:25]
Danielle Robay
Well, it really made me laugh because we've had two guests on this podcast before you who were so into professional wrestling and had all these references in their books that were unexpected. Malala and Lisa Rinna.
- [06:39]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, wow.
- [06:41]
Danielle Robay
Obviously, I have to ask you, if you were a professional wrestler, who would. Who would be your character and why?
- [06:48]
Rufi Thorpe
I feel like I could go one of two ways. Like, who I wish I was would be like some sort of, like, witch or mystical figure. And I always kind of like, loved the Undertaker. Like, I love those more like, goth kind of interpretations. But I also could really see, like, a humorous indie wrestler character where I'm like, a German washer woman. Right. And I'm, like, wringing out laundry with my beefy forearms. I feel like that could. That. That would probably be. It would get over faster.
- [07:13]
Danielle Robay
I think beefy forearms is something I'm gonna be thinking about for the rest of the day. What do you think it is about wrestling? Storytelling, like, the drama, the characters that actually overlaps with writing novels.
- [07:28]
Rufi Thorpe
I instantly sort of fell in love with it. I actually think the frame of reference I was coming from was drag. And I was a big fan of drag. So when my husband started putting it on and I was like, oh, we're gonna Dress in ridiculous outfits and insult each other on a microphone. I love it. Like, I'm already here. The part that maybe is closest to writing is understanding the audience. You know, wrestling audiences are active. It's like Rocky Horror Picture show in there. People are shouting. There's call and response, and the audience is really part of things. And I think that there is this way in which, like, writing is always. You're having this sort of intense, energetic exchange with this invisible reader. You know, you don't get to actually see them. You can't tell when they're getting bored. You have to kind of, like, guess. But you're. You're playing this seductive dance of trying to keep their interest, of trying to win them over, of trying to get them to see your point of view and get them to root for your characters.
- [08:26]
Danielle Robay
That makes sense. Yeah. I think especially the root for your character part resonates with me because there's storytelling involved in that aspect alone.
- [08:36]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, absolutely. What is it about a character that makes them lovable or that makes you enjoy hating them? You know, that makes. What makes a really good villain is also a writing question.
- [08:47]
Danielle Robay
Have you figured that out in terms of what makes a good villain for you?
- [08:51]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, well, I mean, I think a good villain has to be sort of psychologically consistent and then interesting above all.
- [08:58]
Danielle Robay
What do you mean by psychologically consistent?
- [09:00]
Rufi Thorpe
Well, they have to be coherent. Like, they have to make psychological sense why they would be evil and in what way they think. Like, most villains probably don't think, like, I'm the creepy little villain. You know, they have a way that their life makes sense to them and justifications for what they're doing. And I think that that's sort of. Maybe one of my abiding concerns as a human is, like, everyone believes that they're doing the right thing or the only thing that they could do. You know, everyone has a point of view, and that's sort of like the problem of subjectivity, immorality. And, like, how do you ever neatly make moral judgments about another person? Like, what if they didn't have another option? You know, that's, I think, a concern in all all my books. I'm a little bit obsessed with how difficult it is to make moral judgments about other people.
- [09:54]
Danielle Robay
Well, in your newest book, Margo's Got Money Troubles, there are so many deep topics that you hit. There's single motherhood, there's addiction, sex, work, being very, very broke. And it's a story that tackles all of it that, like, it could feel very dark, but it's so silly and so funny. Is this the Roofy way? Do you usually try to find the bright side of things?
- [10:20]
Rufi Thorpe
I think. I mean, it took me forever to figure out that I'm an inherently comedic novelist. And I think because I have a melodramatic imagination, if you don't have the comedy in there, it's really, like, over the top. It's too much. And so the comedy, I think, kind of leavens it. But then I also think that life either strikes you as funny or it doesn't. And life is so absurd, even in its most painful moments, that I think a lot of us, like, laugh when things get really hard. And also a key component of humor is just blurting out the inappropriate truth. Like, that is part of the tension of what makes standup funny or what. Any joke is often just blurting out the thing you're not supposed to say, but that everybody knows is true. And so I think that that can actually be a really useful tool for discussing tangly, complicated, morally gray subjects.
- [11:16]
Danielle Robay
I like how you put that. I want to see what you think about this, because I think it's almost in addition to what you just said, which is I've always thought great comedians, they see the world differently than we do. We're all maybe walking down the street and in the subway, and they see something that's funny that we don't. Do you feel that way when you're writing? Like, I'm so curious about your creative process. How are you pinpointing what's funny and what's too dramatic versus what's comedic?
- [11:46]
Rufi Thorpe
I don't know. It's really. It's one of those things that I think you kind of do by feel in terms of how to find something that's funny. And I think it's really literally just cracking yourself up. Or there's like, a feeling that I'll have that something's hot, like that there's energy there. And it's the part of the scene that interests me. And so it's like, once I find a little bit of it, I'll try and, like, kind of lean into it. But you're in such a weird. You're. You're conscious, but you also kind of have to go unconscious in order to actually draft. It's sort of like dreaming in that way.
- [12:21]
Danielle Robay
I love how you described that. I feel that way when I'm prepping interviews. I can, like. I can just feel it. But I've noticed that it's gotten stronger as I've had more experience. Has Yours sharpened over time.
- [12:34]
Rufi Thorpe
It feels less scary. Maybe it's just that I'm less scared when it's not working, you know, I'm more comfortable in the mess of my own mind because I'm like, well, I'll find it in here eventually. I found it in here before, you know, So I know what works for me at this point, and I have. Me and my husband call them my worm behaviors. I like to write laying down with dirty hair, reheating the same cup of coffee, like, five times. Like, the dirtier the house gets and the more out of control it gets. My husband's like, oh, she's thriving. Like, she's doing her best work now. This is very good. This is good for all of us.
- [13:14]
Danielle Robay
Oh, my God, I love this so much. How early on in your dating process did you let him see your worm behavior?
- [13:21]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, gosh. I got pregnant by accident when we'd been together for six weeks, at which point he had not seen any worm behaviors for sure. And we kind of decided to just go all in and got married. So we got married when we had known each other for three months. It has now been 14 years, and it turned out to be the best decision that I ever made. We were just really nice to each other because we knew we were making such an insane decision, and we really wanted it to work out. So I think we never, like, picked at each other, like, oh, does he really like me? What if I'm kind of mean to him right now? You know, we didn't do any of that because the stakes were too high. We're like, how do we take care of this baby together? We have no money. We don't know what we're doing.
- [14:05]
Danielle Robay
Well, I'm actually glad you brought that up because you personally have a really interesting story, and you've published three other books before this one. I think this book feels the most memoir adjacent. I'm curious why you felt like it was right to write it.
- [14:22]
Rufi Thorpe
Now I will be very frank. None of my books are memoir in the sense that none of these plot points have happened in my life. There's definitely material that you mine from your own life. Like, I was raised by a single mom, and in many ways, Margot is kind of a love letter to single moms and only daughters, you know, or, you know, or an indictment, depending, depending on how you read the book. In terms of why I was interested in writing this right now, I tend to be haunted by the idea of something that I want to write for many years before I start writing it. And I had been particularly haunted by this idea of making kind of almost like a female superhero character who was a Madonna whore. Like, who takes the Madonna whore complex? And she's both. She's a holy mother and a very good sex worker. And I just was like, what would happen? Would she explode? Could you write such a character? Could you ever get a reader to get behind her? I just was kind of in love with the idea. And it was really only when OnlyFans was exploding during the pandemic and I was watching some of my like favorite female comedians on Twitter couldn't do standup anymore. And so a couple of them started OnlyFans accounts and were kind of like live tweeting their experience on that journey. And I just noticed that people were talking about OnlyFans a little bit differently. So I was like, if I was ever going to do that character. OnlyFans is the way that you could keep the conversation from just collapsing into black and white before you got anywhere interesting with exploring the material.
- [16:03]
Danielle Robay
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Garden of Life Formulas for Feeling Alive Available on Amazon Disclaimer Number 1 based on Circana 52 week multi outlet unit sales ending 113025 these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple Co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current Pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak, a story that spans generations, forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com Right now, I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been. And I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music, and I'm going to have to sneak in a museum or two. Trips like that are truly unforgettable. And what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now, if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything, like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning you extra cash. Find a co host@airbnb.com host this is a harsh turn, but you wrote a beautiful essay about motherhood, and you said it was both the hardest and the best thing that you have ever done. And you just mentioned that this was sort of either a love letter or an indictment to single mothers. What are you trying to communicate to moms through this book?
- [21:26]
Rufi Thorpe
My own experience of motherhood was both shock at how beautiful it was. Like, I felt like how much I loved it. It had really been undersold to me. Like, I thought the big beautiful thing in my life was that I was gonna fall in love. Romantic love had been portrayed to me over and over again as the thing that would give my life existential meaning. So I was sort of bowled over by how powerful the experience of becoming a mother and then having to rise to the occasion of mothering was and how much it made me stronger, more powerful person. And I just shocked at how poorly set up the world is for anyone to mother in. I mean, just the lack of maternal leave, how the brokenness of the medical system, I mean, all of it is just wild. Why would we set up a society where, like, the main thing you have to do to continue the species, Right? And yet, no, you know, the world is absolutely not set up for it. And so there was sort of like rage in terms of, like, I knew I was. I had a partner now. We didn't know what we were doing. We didn't have any money. I had family. I had. I had all these advantages. And I still found it really difficult. And I just was like, how are Women doing this. How are women not, like, revolting in the street over how difficult this is?
- [22:49]
Danielle Robay
Did it give you a different sense of. Of your mom as a single mom?
- [22:53]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, yeah. I mean, just so, first of all, I think it's a. Almost a standard response when you realize that just tidal wave of love that you feel for your baby before they've even done anything. They're just like a little potato in your arms, and you're like, oh, my God, did she love me like this? And you just realize that you had no way of conceptualizing how much your mother loved you.
- [23:15]
Danielle Robay
That's so beautiful.
- [23:17]
Rufi Thorpe
But also, then it's lonely. Like, how many times do I, like, the baby does something cute, and you look over at your partner like, oh, my God, can you believe how cute they are? And just understanding that my mom didn't have anybody to look at that way about me to share it with. And it must have been lonely. And also really frustrating talking to children. Like, imagine, like, there's no adult world that you can escape to after the kids go to bed. Like, it's just you and a child in some sort of terrible, unending buddy movie, you know?
- [23:46]
Danielle Robay
Well, is there anything that you put in from your childhood into the book? Margo's got money troubles.
- [23:53]
Rufi Thorpe
Well, yes, but not the things you might think. My mom is a very different sort of woman than Cheyenne. And in fact, I think I probably steered Cheyenne in the direction I did to just make it abundantly clear to my mom that this was not a portrait of her or my upbringing or, you know, you're always sort of trying to do those kindnesses to people. But I did take certain things. Like, I. Our car growing up was a purple Honda Civic. And so when it came, when I was like, and Margo gets in her car. What is it? And I'm like, it's a purple Honda Civic.
- [24:22]
Danielle Robay
Are there any more that you can share? I feel like readers will love to hear about that.
- [24:25]
Rufi Thorpe
She has a thing called Orange meal. That's orange juice and orange cheddar sa sun chips. And that is a meal that, like, me and my friend made up that we're like, it's like food. Like, it's like you're having. Because you have the vitamins and then sun chips are healthy. Like, it's okay to eat this instead of a meal. You know, when we were young and broke, there's so. There's lots of little things like that definitely hungry ghost as, like, a name. And as part of that poem, there was a. It was my 24th birthday party, and there was a guy there that was playing an original song on a guitar that was like, I'm a hungry ghost. And I have never been able to forget it. Just the phrase I'm a hungry ghost has just been in my head for the last 20 years. And so that made its way in there times. What it feels like to me is like, I'm saving. Like, you're like someone collecting pebbles. And then gradually you're like, these eight pebbles have something to do with each other, you know, so they're like little details or things that I can't get out of my mind that I've been, like, carrying around for years. And then I'll start to be like, no. When you put these five pebbles together, something interesting emerges about their relationship to each other. And that's sort of how I start down the road of making things up.
- [25:49]
Danielle Robay
That's so interesting to explain the five pebbles. That's very cool. Earlier you said that part of the comedy is like the absurdity and the. And saying the thing out loud. And you really do see that throughout your book. I found the moments that were not as comedic, where you're still saying the thing out loud to be really interesting. There's this emotional part. It's on page 35. And Margot, who is the main character, has given birth to her son Bodie, and she's brought him back from the hospital. And she's like, oh, my God, what have I done? And so you explain that love that you just shared about of, like, that your mom must have had for you. And then you drive this tension, which sort of lasts throughout the whole book of, like, what the hell have I just done? This is so hard. What was the thing that you felt most deeply when you became a new mom that you weren't supposed to say?
- [26:49]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, that's really interesting. I don't know if it's directly related to the book, but the honest answer is I had a lot of rage at my doctor and partially because I had a highly involuntary and not medically necessary C section. And I can remember, like, trying to tell the anesthesiologist. I was like, can you please narrate to me what's about to happen? I'm really, really scared. And he, like, slapped my face with his gloved hand. He's like, don't worry, sweetheart, you won't feel a thing. And I was like, no, no, wait.
- [27:23]
Danielle Robay
That happened in real life?
- [27:24]
Rufi Thorpe
Yeah, that happened in real life.
- [27:26]
Danielle Robay
Is that why you included the scene where Margo's mom slapped the Nurse.
- [27:30]
Rufi Thorpe
I do think that, like, some of my sublimated, like, rage at the medical industrial complex, like, comes out in ways in that book. It's like this hugely, like, traumatic thing. And then they're like, okay, here's this baby. Go home. Like, oh. And so I just. I do. Mainly I remember, like, having panic attacks of rage, feeling like I was dirty because my evil doctor's hands had been all up in my guts. And, like, I don't know. It's just a really big transition that we don't do a ton of talking about for women before. And then they're also then having to do something really hard and stressful and go through all these, like, hormonal changes and you're not sleeping. And we have this idea of the nuclear family. There isn't. People don't know how to support you, and you feel like a failure for asking for help, and you don't really know how to ask for help. And. And so there's a real vulnerability and kind of a feeling like an animal. There are moments where Margot is just like, you know, she's a beast, and she's, like, filled with rage. Yeah.
- [28:37]
Danielle Robay
I mean, she's also very scrappy, which is cool. She's a hustler. She's creative. I mean, instead of letting the stress of her financial situation bring her down, she creates an OnlyFans account to pay her bills. I love that she uses what she learned in literature class like classic storytelling structures and narrative theory, and applies it to the storylines that she creates on OnlyFans. Why did you want to make OnlyFans this main plot point?
- [29:07]
Rufi Thorpe
In part because I started with this idea of having a Madonna horror character. I also really. I mean, for me, Margot's naivety is sort of a kind of superpower. There's a way in which I think part of youth is being too stupid to realize how hard what you're trying to do is.
- [29:27]
Danielle Robay
Yes, I so agree.
- [29:29]
Rufi Thorpe
And that can often be how you wind up doing something incredible because you just were too stupid to not know to do that, you know? And so I really. I. It was great fun to remember that about myself and remember, you know, remember what it felt. Felt like to be like, well, I guess I'll just do it this way, and to kind of get to live in that with her. And then OnlyFans. I mean, I think that I just skew less scared of the Internet than maybe other people of my generation. I kind of fell in love with YouTube from watching my kids watch it, and I guess that to Me, if you had explained the concept of YouTube to me when it was first starting, I would have assumed that regular people with no budget would not really make content worth watching and to be so thoroughly disproven, you know, I love YouTube. I watch an insane amount of YouTube. I love. There's Antscanada. And he will explain to you everything that's happening with his aunts, his aunt colony, and the various goings on and dramas in his ant world. You can find, if you're interested in anthropology, there's anthropologists talking about the latest research and scandals going on in anthropology. You want to, you want to learn everything there is to know about snakes. Guess what? There's a great guy who knows all about reptiles is going to tell you everything you ever want to know about snakes, you know, and yeah, there's a lot of stupid content, but it is exciting to me. I think I love outsider art. I love things made by people. I think that's part of the aesthetic of wrestling. That also appeals to me. It seems like an out of control group project, you know, like, you have one guy who's like, I have a magic urn and you have another guy's like, I have a sock puppet. And the other guy's like, I'm Captain America. Like, it doesn't go together aesthetically. There's a lack of a controlling artistic hand. And I think that that's kind of what excites me about YouTube, but also about only fans, like the sheer variety of humans. We're so weird, we're so wonderfully idiosyncratic. We're all different from each other and yet we're all like really deeply the same and capable of having empathy with each other. And I just think it's like beautiful. And so I think there are certain things about the Internet that I. I mean, I experience the fear as well. You know, I can see the dystopia. I'm not blind to it. But there is a way in which I think I am more optimistic about human beings than not.
- [32:04]
Danielle Robay
I love that you told me all the YouTube rabbit holes that you went down. But you did forget one thing, which is an amazing watch. You interviewed yourself when you were promoting one of your books. I think it was for the Knockout Queen, right?
- [32:19]
Rufi Thorpe
It was, right. It published into the pandemic. So my whole book tour got canceled and I was like, what can I do? So I made this silly little video where I'm pretending to interview myself.
- [32:30]
Danielle Robay
It was very funny. Everybody should go watch that. When you're planning a trip it helps to have a credit card that rewards you no matter where you like to book. That's the Autograph Journey Credit card from Wells Fargo. What makes a difference is how flexible it is. You can earn rewards where you like to book travel. If you like going straight to the airline or hunting down a deal on a hotel site, this card is designed to keep rewarding you. Here's how the points stack up. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. So picture booking that hotel in the neighborhood you've always wanted to stay in, that's earning points. Grabbing flights for a last minute getaway, that's earning Sitting down for that first dinner when you land, still earning. Even the everyday stuff between trips can help toward your next journey. The Autograph Journey Card from Wells Fargo helps turn the way you already travel, eat and explore into rewards. Learn more@wells fargo.com autographjourney terms apply okay, you've got a lot going on and choosing the right probiotic might not be at the top of your to do list. I get it, so let's make things simple. Garden of Life is the number one women's probiotic brand for a reason. It's specifically designed for women to support the immune system, vaginal health and overall women's health. You can feel good knowing that this is the brand so many women trust for their gut health health. Garden of Life transforms 16 diverse probiotic strains and 50 billion CFU to support digestive health and a flourishing gut flora. And if you're worried whether Garden of Life women's once daily probiotic is the real deal, don't okay. They are certified non GMO and doctor formulated for women's unique needs. To put it simply, this is an easy way to prioritize your gut health. Garden of Life Formulas for Feeling Alive Available on Amazon disclaimer number one based on Circana 52 week multi outlet unit sales ending 1130 25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Apple Books is the best place to read, listen to or discover the books you love without a subscription right on your iPhone. And now there's a very exciting heads up for listeners. Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club, so it's easier than ever to explore each monthly book pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set goals and track your reading progress. Get great recommendations for your next read or listen and enjoy it all on the go, wherever you are. You can even share your books with up to five family members at no cost. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple co reeseapplebooks to find out more. That's Apple co reeseapplebooks and read or listen to Reese's current Pick and browse past selections today on Apple Books. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak. A story that spans generations, forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com right now I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been and I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music. And I'm going to have to sneak in a museum or two. Trips like that are truly unforgettable and what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication, on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning you extra cash. Find a co host@airbnb.com host. Have you ever had like a crazy side Hustle the way Margot has. I mean, not necessarily onlyfans, but did you ever have odd jobs?
- [37:52]
Rufi Thorpe
I've had weird jobs. I had a summer I was selling defibrillators.
- [37:57]
Danielle Robay
I'm sorry, what?
- [37:58]
Rufi Thorpe
Ruby.
- [38:00]
Danielle Robay
I was a bar and bat mitzvah dancer, and I worked at a spin studio. I thought that was weird. And you really just won.
- [38:06]
Rufi Thorpe
No, it was. I was the wor. I did not sell a single defibrillator. I was, like, 19.
- [38:12]
Danielle Robay
Okay, well, I need to ask you about the audiobook, because I love when authors do their own or if they have somebody who's very compelling do it. And you had freaking Elle Fanning narrate your audiobook.
- [38:27]
Rufi Thorpe
That was such a gift. I mean, it was insane because the whole way that the show came about was so anomalous and incredible. But it happened before the book came out. And so Elle was already going to be Margot in the show, and they were like, we've got to get her to do the audiobook.
- [38:50]
Danielle Robay
Wait, I thought it was the opposite. This is so cool.
- [38:53]
Rufi Thorpe
Yeah. And so that was really magical, getting to hear her do it. I mean, she just killed it. And I'm guessing for her, it was like an interesting way of then inhabiting a character to have also been the audiobook narrator for the whole thing.
- [39:13]
Danielle Robay
And were you involved in any of the casting conversations?
- [39:17]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, I mean, in the most peripheral, like, you know, hanger on kind of way. I remember so many of my instincts are just so wrong. Like, they were talking about Greg Kinnear for Kenny, and I was just like, could he play someone who's never been beautiful? Like, I feel like it's so part of Greg Kinnear that he was such a beautiful animal. And does he know what it's like to have never been beautiful? And, boy, did I not understand Greg Kinnear's chops, because his. Kenny is luminous. And Michelle. Oh, my God.
- [39:52]
Danielle Robay
I just want everyone to know you're talking about the Michelle Pfeiffer, but I'm thinking you're on First Name Faces with her. I mean, this. This cast is so stacked. You have, obviously, Elle Fanning and Michelle Pfeiffer, but you have Nick Offerman, Nicole Kidman. It's produced by a TV legend, David E. Kelly, which is the guy who's behind, like, Big Little lies and Ally McBeal and the Lincoln Lawyer. I know. When you first heard that he was writing this, did you feel like, okay, this is in the hands of somebody who knows what they're doing?
- [40:22]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, yeah. Well. And anytime people would Be like, well, don't you want to write it? I'd be like, no. Yeah, I want to grab the pencil out of David E. Kelly's hand. No, please. And in so many ways, it felt like getting a master class. Like, to see someone take your material that you know so intimately and then they are recasting it. There's so many things that he would do that I'd be like, oh, wow, that's really smart. Like, I kind of wish I had done it that way. Or, like, he just has cool storytelling instincts. I feel like I learned a lot. It was an embarrassment of riches. It was like, every time that I would talk to anybody, it was just getting cooler and cooler. And the whole time I was just like, are you guys sure? Like, it seems like some sort of cosmic mistake. Like, surely no one deserves this much good fortune, you know? Well, no, nobody does. I'm not saying I don't deserve it, but, like, this is an insane thing to have happen to as a novelist. You know, I would have been happy if they made a bad show, you know? But then for them to have made a really, really good show, it's wild.
- [41:23]
Danielle Robay
Wait, you've seen it already?
- [41:24]
Rufi Thorpe
I've seen it all, yeah.
- [41:25]
Danielle Robay
And you like it.
- [41:27]
Rufi Thorpe
I could not be more blown away.
- [41:29]
Danielle Robay
Oh, I have chills for you. I'm so happy.
- [41:32]
Rufi Thorpe
They should be so proud. They should be so proud of what they made.
- [41:35]
Danielle Robay
I heard that Nick Offerman learned how to wrestle and did all of his own stunts. Can you confirm or deny?
- [41:40]
Rufi Thorpe
He did, and it was sick. I could not believe it. I got to see, like, clips from his, like, wrestling camp that he did, like, all his moves put together. It was amazing. Like, he really went for it. My God.
- [41:58]
Danielle Robay
So Michelle Pfeiffer and Nick Offerman play Elle Fanning's parents.
- [42:02]
Rufi Thorpe
Yep.
- [42:03]
Danielle Robay
So when you heard that, did you see the vision immediately, or did you sort of think, like, wait, Ron Swanson and Catwoman are Elle's parents? Like, how do I.
- [42:13]
Rufi Thorpe
First of all, I feel like Nick Offerman has this combination of what we would call, like, traditionally masculine traits and tenderness and the ability to be vulnerable and sensitive. Kind of like that's almost part of his brand. And so I was like, oh, this is a perfect role for him. He can absolutely beat the crap out of somebody and then hold a baby and make a lasagna from scratch, like, very much. He's believably can do all those things. And there's something so ethereal about Michelle Pfeiffer. Like, part of it's the beauty part of it is her eyes are so expressive, but it felt like sky and earth. Like, they were sort of, like, elementally balanced against each other. And I remember thinking, like, God, I wonder what their chemistry is gonna be like. And then it did not disappoint.
- [43:04]
Danielle Robay
Without giving too much away, there is a part of the book and the show where Margot befriends one of her subscribers, which sounds a little scary because it definitely blurs the line between creator and fan. And this could have easily been, I think, the tension throughout the novel, but it's not. The friendship is kind of like a relief in her chaotic world. What is your interaction with fans like?
- [43:30]
Rufi Thorpe
Because it is weird. You don't get to watch people read your book. They're doing it secretly. You don't know about it, you know? And so then you get this, like, message from someone. Like, I remember getting this message. It was, like, from a young woman. She's like, I had to climb. I have no cell phone bars in my apartment. And so I'm on the roof of my apartment building trying to get this email to go through, because it just felt so desperately important to tell you that I love this book. And I was like, I can remember feeling that way about a book when I was that age. Do you know what I mean? Like, I can remember thinking, I better climb up on the roof and hold my phone up here so this email will go through. And so it just feels, like, kind of miraculous every time, or like, I got a letter from the head of a methadone clinic.
- [44:15]
Danielle Robay
Yeah.
- [44:16]
Rufi Thorpe
Being like, I cried when I read this book because I'd never seen methadone portrayed in such a positive light. And, like, obviously I believe in what I do, but, like, I've had to accept that. I'm. It's kind of culturally stigmatized. I, Like, I would have died of terror if I thought actual pro wrestlers were going to read. Read this book.
- [44:34]
Danielle Robay
Have you had messages from pro wrestlers?
- [44:37]
Rufi Thorpe
I, because of the show, got to go backstage at some WWE and AEW events and then talk to people. And, yeah, they started, like, passing it around and reading it. And one guy was like, who do you know? Are you friends with Brett? And I was like, no, I'm not friends with Bret Hart. In my wildest dreams, I'm friends with Bret Hart. You guys all write memoirs, and I just copied what you said your life was like. Because that is the thing about wrestling is they have a tremendous literary tradition. Almost every wrestler has one, if not multiple memoirs published. So you can really, really read the
- [45:10]
Danielle Robay
skinny and get into their story. You know, you seem like you have so many interests. Is there something that you are absolutely obsessed with that you could write a book about it, but you won't?
- [45:23]
Rufi Thorpe
Well, I have a dream, you see. So one of my interests is anthropology, particularly, like, early hominid species, like orig of man, Neanderthals, like Homo sapiens. Like, I think wondering what kind of animals we are and like, what kinds of things are innate and versus what things are cultural is like, a thing that my brain can never stop picking at. Are you familiar with the Clan of the Cave Bear books?
- [45:51]
Danielle Robay
I'm not.
- [45:52]
Rufi Thorpe
Okay, so they are neolithic romance novels with a lot of sex in them. And they are how I learned about sex as a, like, as a girl. My mom owned these novels and I used to started reading them. But it is a dream of mine to, like, rewrite Clan of the Cave Bear with updated science, with, like, updated anthropology. Maybe this is. Maybe this is. Oh, my God. Rufy,
- [46:18]
Danielle Robay
do you talk about these dreams in your. In your writing retreats?
- [46:23]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, yeah. No, totally. I mean, that's the place to be. Silly. Writing retreats are such a blessing. Like, so sometimes I, like, host them, and sometimes I'm just like, like, going on them with, like, a group of writer friends will, like, rent a cabin and everybody will just write and then cook dinner at night.
- [46:41]
Danielle Robay
Can you explain what? I've never been to one, and I always hear about them, like, what. How are they organized? What happens there?
- [46:48]
Rufi Thorpe
So it depends. Like, if it's a formal one that you're, like, paying to go on, then you're. Usually there's time for you to write in the day. If, like, part of your goal is that you want to get a lot done. And then there's like, craft talks, or they'll have, like, like, special guest lectures, or sometimes they'll bring an agent to, like, talk about publishing and the state of the industry. And then it's really also a time to make connections and friends. And so there's usually a lot of, like, drinking, dance parties, campfires, like this kind of shenanigans in the evening. Because it really is like, I think that those peer artistic relationships are maybe the most important part.
- [47:23]
Danielle Robay
I heard you're hosting one in Italy.
- [47:25]
Rufi Thorpe
I am, with Kevin Wilson. I'm very excited.
- [47:29]
Danielle Robay
Wow, how fun your book is about this young woman figuring out how to survive and build a life when everything feels stacked against her. And now that the story is going out into the world as a TV show, what are you hoping that people Learn from Margot about surviving your 20s. Is there any advice that you can share to someone listening who's at that stage of their life?
- [47:53]
Rufi Thorpe
I realized pretty early on when I was writing it that I wanted to actually try and portray the mechanics of female empowerment. And I think that one of those moments is letting go of trying to do what you think other people want you to do, what you think. You would get approval for doing what you know, and. And then really taking a frank look at what you want and then trying to go and get it for yourself. I feel like that is sort of the journey that Margo is really on. And once you've stepped outside, once, you can no longer use other people's approval as a compass because you've made a decision that is going to incur a lot of people's disapproval, like joining OnlyFans or having a baby. When you're too young to have a baby, you have to figure out your own moral compass. You have to decide who you want to be, you have to decide what kind of person you want to be, you have to decide what you want, and then you have to go and get it. And so I think that women are often trained to be aware of what everybody else wants but them. And it can be really confusing to figure out what you want. It's hard to say, like, well, this is what I want, not just how I want to be perceived, but this is what I want to do. This is what I want to make. This is what I want to have, not just how I want to seem to other people. That was sort of like the most empowering lesson from my own twenties.
- [49:27]
Danielle Robay
I resonate with that so deeply. And I was thinking about some of the ways that, as you were talking, some of the ways that I was able to get clarity on who I was and what I wanted. And honestly, the biggest thing was reading books, other women's stories. Is there an author that helped you get clarity on what you wanted or who you were?
- [49:50]
Rufi Thorpe
Well, I can remember I had the Master Butcher Singing Club by Louise Erdrich, and I was reading it in a college class, and my professor said, oh, what are you reading? And I showed him, and he said, oh, that's not a real book. And I remember just, like, being incandescent with rage, and I was like, you think that this isn't a real book and doesn't have literary merit because, what, it's not boring enough? You know? And I really started to kind of resent this idea that there is some sort of inherent difference between high art and Low art. And this idea that literary fiction novels shouldn't make use of all of the powerful revving engine of storytelling, of plot, of suspense, of character. You know, like, why wouldn't you try and have all the philosophical depth of a literary fiction novel and have it be fun to read? And so I think that, you know, there were so many writers that made me think, no, you can do it. Dennis Lehane was one of those writers. James McBride. I feel like sometimes when I'm reading James McBride, I feel like I don't know how someone wrote something so completely to my taste, you know, like, every single scene, there's something in it that just delights me that I can't get over. Those are kind of the people who made me believe it's possible. Like, no, you can have all this depth, and it can be fun as hell.
- [51:14]
Danielle Robay
I love hearing you talk about an author that way. Cause I think that's how people feel about you.
- [51:18]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, that's the nicest thing you could have said. That's so sweet.
- [51:22]
Danielle Robay
It's true. Like, every book is important and people's words are important, but you have such a unique voice. There's not a lot of. If you like, Roofie, read this. Like, you know what I mean?
- [51:35]
Rufi Thorpe
This advice is given to writers all the time. Like, find your voice. And I was like, how the hell are you supposed to do that? I spent years trying to write like Raymond Carver, right? Like, I was like, who am I supposed to be? How do I be to get my professors to approve of me to get. And that. The answer is like, no, Just be more yourself. You're like, are you kidding? That's too easy. Are you serious? Like, I'm supposed to just become increasingly relentlessly myself. Like, that's crazy. And yet that is what people respond to. It's very counterintuitive. But the more idiosyncratic and individual and authentic you are in who you are, the more universally appealing, I think the material.
- [52:14]
Danielle Robay
Do you take a look at up and coming writers and. And check out what they're doing online? Are you really focused on your own work?
- [52:22]
Rufi Thorpe
Oh, I read constantly. And I love seeing. I love, love seeing what people are up to. And I blurb a lot, and I read a lot for friendship. I mean, I think that it's. There's too much to read. You know, I'm also like, I'm in a book club with a bunch of other moms, and we read those books as well.
- [52:41]
Danielle Robay
Really? Who picks the books? We each.
- [52:44]
Rufi Thorpe
So there's like, kind of 12 of us. And so everybody gets a month. And so you pick the book and then you host.
- [52:50]
Danielle Robay
Cool.
- [52:51]
Rufi Thorpe
It's very fun. I love a book club.
- [52:55]
Danielle Robay
Okay, I want to do something called speed read with you, which means I'm putting 60 seconds on the clock, and we're gonna play Heel or hero? So hero. The crowd goes wild. Heel. We love to hate it. We're booing and we're throwing our popcorn. Okay, so how do you feel about cosplay? Heel or hero?
- [53:14]
Rufi Thorpe
Well, I think it's a hero. Culturally. I think people love to make fun of it and look down on it. So I guess Heal.
- [53:21]
Danielle Robay
Judging a book by its cover. Heal or hero?
- [53:24]
Rufi Thorpe
Heal. But at the same time, I buy books based on their covers all the time.
- [53:28]
Danielle Robay
Okay. Literature professors.
- [53:30]
Rufi Thorpe
Heel. I can't say we're all heels. I don't know. I'm really. I don't like anyone telling me what to think.
- [53:38]
Danielle Robay
Professional wrestlers who drink green tea.
- [53:41]
Rufi Thorpe
Hero. Obviously. No question.
- [53:43]
Danielle Robay
Drag queens.
- [53:44]
Rufi Thorpe
Hero.
- [53:46]
Danielle Robay
Books written in the first person.
- [53:48]
Rufi Thorpe
I think they get a bad rap. I mean, I love them. I write them, but I think people think that they're, like, not as fancy
- [53:55]
Danielle Robay
books written in the third person.
- [53:56]
Rufi Thorpe
Hero.
- [53:58]
Danielle Robay
Books that do both.
- [54:00]
Rufi Thorpe
Well, you know, obviously. Obviously. Hero. Here.
- [54:05]
Danielle Robay
Babies.
- [54:06]
Rufi Thorpe
Hero.
- [54:07]
Danielle Robay
Babies who cry all night.
- [54:09]
Rufi Thorpe
Boo. Heal.
- [54:12]
Danielle Robay
TikTok.
- [54:15]
Rufi Thorpe
I mean, Hero. We all spend enough time on it, but we do love to look down on people for spending time on it.
- [54:23]
Danielle Robay
How about book talk?
- [54:25]
Rufi Thorpe
I mean, I think Hero. Like, what a sweet way to spend your time. Recommending. I feel like Hero.
- [54:33]
Danielle Robay
Agreed. Books about motherhood.
- [54:35]
Rufi Thorpe
They're having a cultural moment. So I want to say hero, but I also, like. I mean, sometimes I don't want to read about motherhood because I'm doing it, and I want to read about other planets and stuff and glaciers.
- [54:48]
Danielle Robay
Reading the book before the TV show.
- [54:50]
Rufi Thorpe
Hero.
- [54:51]
Danielle Robay
Move.
- [54:51]
Rufi Thorpe
Hero. Move.
- [54:52]
Danielle Robay
Reading reviews before starting a new book.
- [54:55]
Rufi Thorpe
Heal. Boo. Boo.
- [54:57]
Danielle Robay
And book clubs in general.
- [54:59]
Rufi Thorpe
Hero. How else are you going to get the good gossip?
- [55:04]
Danielle Robay
So true. I agree. And the good snacks. All the snacks.
- [55:07]
Rufi Thorpe
And the good snacks. You get peanut butter cups. You get to find out which history teacher is unreasonable. You know it's important.
- [55:17]
Danielle Robay
Rufy, this was just such a delight. Thank you so much.
- [55:20]
Rufi Thorpe
Thank you. This is pure strict pleasure.
- [55:25]
Danielle Robay
Thank you. I hope that's how you describe something unsavory in your upcoming books. That's it for this episode of bookmarked by Reese's Book Book Club. Our phone line is now open, so if you want to go 90s on us, give us a call. At 1501-291-3379. That's 1501291, 3379. Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick, or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't overthink it. Give us a ring. And if you want more, come hang with us. Reese's Book Club is on Instagram serving up books, good vibes and all the behind the scenes stuff you love. And I'm at Daniellero Bay R O B A Y so come say hi and please seriously DM me because I actually read them and I love hearing what you think about the episodes. And don't forget to follow Bookmarked by Reese's Book club on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts are wherever you listen. We'll see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked as a production of Hello Sunshine and iHeart podcasts. Executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robay Production by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez and Sarah Schlied. Our editor is Carmen Borca Carillo. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny K. Kaplan and Emily Rutter are executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla, Ashley Rapaport and Sarah Kernerman are associate producers for Reese's Book Club and Ali Perry is executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. The Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo is built for traffic travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book your favorite hotel, site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply. Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss us. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton. Not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more@thefabricofourlives.com all the talk of probiotics can get confusing. Which to take? Why? What does it do? Let's make it easy. Garden of Life's doctor Formulated Once Daily Women's Probiotic is the number one women's probiotic. Why should you take it? Well, Garden of Life transforms a range of probiotic strains to support digestive, immune and vaginal health. Plus, this doctor formulated non GMO formula is designed specifically for women. Simply put, this is an easy way to support your gut health. Garden of Formulas for Feeling Alive available on Amazon disclaimer number one based on Circana 52 week multi outlet unit sales ending 1130 25. These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Apple Books is the best way to read or listen to the books you love. Without a subscription right on your iPhone and a heads up for listeners, Apple Books is the official audiobook and ebook home for Reese's Book Club so you can discover every exciting pick, plus author curated collections and more all in one place. Open the Apple Books app to explore a world of books and audiobooks. You can set and track your reading goals and get great recommendations for your next read or listen. Again, no subscription required. Visit Apple Co Reese. That's R E E S e Apple Books. To find out more, I'm partnering with Simple Mills and I have now found a new go to reading snack, Simple Mills Almond Flour Crackers. Think of this as a quick book style review because these crackers deserve it. The premise A snack that feels light, not heavy. Made with almond flour, sunflower seeds and flaxseeds. Nutrient dense ingredients your body can use. Not empty carbs and the taste crunchy classic flavors that leave you feeling energized. 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