The Art of Suspense with Reese’s Book Club Author Alexandra Andrews

Summary

Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club

Episode Summary: "The Art of Suspense with Alexandra Andrews"

Release Date: May 26, 2026
Host: Danielle Robay
Guest: Alexandra Andrews, author of The Fine Art of Lying

---

Episode Overview

This episode of Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club features author Alexandra Andrews, whose literary thriller The Fine Art of Lying is the May selection for the club. Host Danielle Robay and Andrews dive deep into the art of crafting suspense, the complicated nature of female desire in fiction, the challenges and joys of writing about the art world, and the universal search for wonder and meaning in adult life. The conversation flows through Andrews’ creative process, influences, and her unique perspective on genre, character, and what makes a thriller truly gripping.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening Impressions and Art World Setting

• Gripping Opening (04:06): Danielle shares that she was captivated from the first line of The Fine Art of Lying, describing it as "so twisty and so sexy."
• Artistic Style Analogy (04:56):
  • Alexandra: “I think I’d have to say abstract expressionism. Think Jackson Pollock...I can feel a little chaotic, which is why I have a book about art and sex and murder and motherhood. And it’s a whole stew.”
• Writing About Visual Art (05:46, 06:42): Alexandra admits she's not an art historian and leaned into her amateur perspective—basing her fictional artist on real-life references like Agnes Martin, but creating her own mythos.

2. Research and the Art World’s Dark Side

• Limited Research, Big Impact (07:15):
  Andrews credits the book Ninth Street Women for helping her capture the spirit of artists’ lives, as well as All the Beauty in the World for its perspective on art’s accessibility.
• Art Crime Fascination (08:17): Both agree that art heists are a popular "fantasy crime."
  • Alexandra: “It is crazy. Some of the research I did, I was reading...Senate reports on the fraud in the art world and how unregulated it is. Nobody’s paying taxes. It’s sort of fascinating.” (08:40)

3. Wealthy People Behaving Badly & Raising Stakes

• Why We’re Obsessed (09:31-10:21):
  • Alexandra: “In this very wealthy milieu, everything is heightened...There’s so much more to lose, more pressure...all this drama compressed into one space.”
  • On Stakes: “I always keep ratcheting them up. And then I’m like, oh, I got a dead body again. Cause of course, that’s the highest stake there is.” (10:21)

4. Setting & Autobiographical Elements

• Upper East Side Choice (11:55-12:42):
  • Alexandra grew up in the Upper East Side, wanting a more familiar setting after her previous novel.
• Crime, Motherhood, and Tone (13:12):
  • Alexandra cannot handle or write about truly dark material, choosing instead to cloak her subjects in style, satire, and humor: “I would never be able to write about something bad happening to a child..."
• Mother-in-law Character (13:53):
  • Alexandra clarifies her own mother-in-law is "lovely," unlike her character.

5. Career Trajectory and Creative Doubt

• From Journalism to Fiction (14:07-16:46):
  • Investigative journalism made Alexandra anxious; fiction allows her to explore truths in her own head, non-confrontationally.
  • Her transition was catalyzed by her novelist husband and a self-imposed deadline during a family stint in Paris.
  • On Delay: “It’s the same thing that stops a lot of women...misplaced perfectionism and self-doubt and procrastination....Probably a little laziness, too.” (16:18)
• On Joan Didion’s Influence (16:50): Admired her “sharp and sparse” style and personal, unsentimental honesty.

6. Truth in Fiction & Artistic License

• Blurring Fact and Fiction (17:56):
  • Andrews originally used a real artist’s work as plot device but shifted after realizing fiction can—and should—embrace "lying."
  • “My gut instinct is to stick to the truth and I need a little push to get over the fiction.” (17:56)

7. Motherhood, Identity, and Wonder

• Seed of the Story (24:34):
  • Sparks of the novel came from the isolation of new motherhood—and a moving crowd at an art exhibition post-pandemic.
  • Alexandra: “I just wrote about a new mother who…doesn’t feel like herself...what would happen if someone made a decision when they’re not feeling like themselves that actually changed the entire course of their life?”
• The Search for Wonder (28:02-31:38):
  • Losing the “spark” of wonder in adulthood, especially after big life changes:
    • “I felt a little like I was wrapped in bubble wrap or something...I was aware that some people would find [protagonist Claire] maybe a little bratty...but I do think there’s a way that you can get all these markers of success, and it just still doesn’t feel like—or it’s not filling you up in the way that you thought it would.” (28:02)
    • Claire's journey is ultimately one toward regaining wonder—using art and desire.

8. Female Desire, Guilt, and Fiction

• Writing Women’s Desire (33:29):
  • Desire for meaning, wonder, and sex is a tangled ball—socially messier for women in fiction than for men.
  • Alexandra: “The language for art and the language for sex are very similar. Like this idea of being in rapture.” (34:11)

9. Writing Process & Practical Advice

• Editing While Writing (39:46):
  • Alexandra avoids revising until she’s produced a big chunk—"I would almost close my eyes as I scroll"—to preserve vitality.
• Key Writing Advice (40:50):
  • Support from her husband: “This is just part of the process...You feel like this and then you just keep going and it stops feeling like that after a while.”
  • Danielle: “There’s something really helpful in hearing that all the hard stuff you’re feeling...is just part of the process.” (41:18)

10. Thrillers, Summer Reads, and Suspense

• Why Thrillers, Why Summer? (42:04):
  • Alexandra credits the bright, relaxed energy of summer with helping readers confront dark themes at arm’s length.
• What Makes a Great Thriller (42:49):
  • “For me, it just always comes back to character...Even something like a thriller, that’s supposed to be fun and enjoyable, I think can always come back to that question ‘How do you shape your life?’” (42:49)
• Balancing Character and Plot (45:34):
  • Alexandra relies on “gut feeling” from a lifetime of reading, editing early drafts heavily to balance inner life with action.

11. Rules of Suspense & Managing Pressure

• Suspense Missteps (46:33):
  • More action doesn’t equal more suspense; stakes must feel real and urgent to the character.
  • “I think sometimes I’m just piling upon, like, action and action and action...I think I personally need to trust myself a little bit more that I can make smaller plot actions mean something to the reader.”
• Second Novel Pressures (47:36):
  • The high expectations after a successful debut made starting The Fine Art of Lying difficult; Alexandra started and abandoned multiple novels before finding her way.

12. Process: Beginnings, Middles, and Endings

• Where She Starts (48:42):
  • “I don’t think I’ve ever started with the end, but I’ve definitely started with the middle...like every which way. I go backwards, I go forwards.”
  • The opening prologue was a later addition for dramatic effect.

13. Fun Segment: Building a Mystery Together

• At the end, Danielle and Alexandra improvise a mystery plot about a murdered Venetian Countess with a secret daughter and poisoned teacup—showcasing Alexandra's playful creativity and genre love. (51:47–53:27)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the universal desire for wonder:
  • “Where’s the wonder? Like, when you’re a kid, you have so much wonder and you think it’s just going to continue, and then one day you’re just sort of like, oh, I don’t have that anymore.” – Alexandra Andrews (30:29)
• On the heart of thrillers:
  • “For me, it just always comes back to character. Always, always, always. I have to be invested in the character, both as a reader and a writer.” (42:49)
• On editorial self-sabotage:
  • “I made a rule for myself that I could not look back at anything I had written in my first draft…I would almost close my eyes as I scroll to the end of it…because otherwise I would just edit a single paragraph to death.” (39:46)
• On advice for writers:
  • “Just survive a little bit of hating it and not act on it. Which I think is invaluable advice.” (40:50)
• On the meaning of life:
  • “Life is literally…it’s just time. That’s all it is. And you have to devote it to something. And it’s like a literal devotion.” (44:12)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:06] Opening remarks about the book’s seductive tension and art world themes
• [05:46] Writing about visual art, inspiration from real artists
• [08:40] Art world crimes and unregulated markets
• [10:21] The importance of high stakes in thrillers
• [13:12] Genre choice—dark material with humor and style
• [16:18] On perfectionism and self-doubt stopping women from writing
• [24:34] How motherhood and the pandemic inspired the novel’s genesis
• [28:02] The search for lost wonder and finding meaning after achievement
• [33:29] Writing about female desire versus male desire in fiction
• [39:46] Editing advice: don’t look back in early drafts
• [42:49] What makes a great thriller: character first
• [46:33] Suspense isn’t just about action; stakes must be urgent to the character
• [48:42] Starting in the middle: writing process insights
• [51:47] Improvised mystery plot: fun and playful segment

---

Tone & Language

The episode is witty, down-to-earth, and honest. Danielle Robay’s curiosity draws out Alexandra Andrews’s thoughtful reflections and self-deprecating humor. Andrews speaks candidly about her process, anxieties, and everyday realities, making her advice and insights especially relatable for writers and readers alike.

---

Conclusion

This episode gives listeners an intimate look into Alexandra Andrews’s writing philosophy, the intricacies of suspense and character, and the emotional realities adults face when meaning feels out of reach. With insights into writing about art, motherhood, wealth, and the messy intertwining of desire and identity, it’s a must-listen for thriller fans and aspiring writers seeking an honest, inspiring, and entertaining literary discussion.

Transcript

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

This is an iHeart podcast guaranteed human the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book your favorite hotel site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey Card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply. A new car is kind of like a new book. It takes you places you never thought you could go. What will you drive into the next chapter of your life?

[Sponsor Voice]

It's fun to dream about your next

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

car, but when you're done dreaming, you need to head to cars.com Cars.com has the tools and expert advice to help you find your dream car. Their advanced search filters allow you to explore 2 million new and used cars so that you can find the perfect car. Start your search with cars.com where to

[Sponsor Voice]

next today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you? In the fabric that's holding you close, Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort, and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton not just

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

to read the story, but to feel it.

[Sponsor Voice]

Cotton the fabric of our lives. Learn more at the Fabric of Our Lives.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Com Right now, I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been and I'm going to take her to eat all the best

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

food, see the best jazz music, and I'm going to have to sneak in

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

a museum or two. If you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And now with the Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything like managing reservations, getting guest communication, and even styling your space. Find a co [e-mail] host bookmarked by Reese's Book Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi, I'm Danielle Robe, and welcome to

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. There are certain books that don't just pull you in. They completely seduce you.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

You know the ones, you open them

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

before bed thinking, okay, you'll just read one chapter, and then suddenly it's 3am and you are fully OBS.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Today's guest knows all about that, because

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I do think this idea of, like, desire for meaning, for wonder, but also for sex, and it's all sort of wrapped up together in a big, messy ball. The language for art and the language for sex are very similar. Like this idea of, like, being in rapture.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Alexandra Andrews new novel, the Fine Art of Lying.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

The may pick for Reese's Book Club is a sharp, slight, sexy literary thriller

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

set against the glittering backdrop of New York's art world. The story follows Claire, a new mother who appears to have the perfect Upper east side life, until one unexpected encounter reignites something inside her that had quietly gone missing.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

And from there, well, things get messy

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

in the best possible way. Alexandra and I talk all about what makes a great thriller, why female desire in fiction is often more complicated than

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

we admit, and how all great stories begin with something true.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

So whether you're craving a twisty summer read, you're in the right place. Let's turn the page with Alexandra Andrews.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Alexandra, welcome to the club.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Thank you. I am so happy to be a part of this club.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I mean, congratulations are truly in order. Your book, the Fine Art of Lying is the Mae Reese's book club pick. And it is so twisty and so sexy. And I have to tell you, sometimes it'll take me a chapter or two to get into a book.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

I was drawn in from the opening line.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

The first image is just stunning and

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

honestly, a little creepy.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I know somebody was like, would she really be completely naked? And I was like, it doesn't matter. It's better for the image.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Okay, so if anybody hasn't read it, the first page. But also the whole book is really filled with references to art and to the art world. And I thought it could be fun to describe this book as a painting. So if the Fine art of Lying were a work of art, what style would it be?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I think I'd have to say abstract expressionism. Think Jackson Pollock. You know, they throw all their feelings, everything, just, like, slosh it on the canvas. I was telling someone recently that I feel like I write the way I cook, which is just like, I'm grabbing, like, 17 ingredients and just, like, throwing them all in. And I sort Of I can feel a little chaotic, which is why I have a book about like art and sex and murder and motherhood. And it's a whole stew.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

It really is a whole stew. But I actually found it so interesting that you chose the art world to begin with. And maybe interesting is not the right word. Maybe ambitious, because visual art is famously very difficult to write about because it is visual and emotional, honestly. So what made you say I'm up for this challenge?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I think it was made easier by the fact that Claire, the main character, sort of, that's the realization she comes to in her own life that, you know, she has been studying art in such a scholarly way and she realizes, you know, what all these, like, explanations, these meanings, these theories, like they're just meaningless. The only thing that matters is the way I feel when I'm standing in front of a work of art. I come to the world of art as an amateur. I'm not an artist, I'm not an art historian. And so I wasn't that intimidated because I don't think I'm like trying to pretend to know things I don't know. So the artist in the book is a made up artist named Blake Webley, but in earlier drafts it was actually a real artist named Agnes Martin, who is a wonderful artist. Actually, when I was describing made up works of art, I was thinking a little bit about Agnes Martin's real works of art, which I think helped a little bit that I had a real

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

life reference that makes a lot of sense because I was thinking to myself, you know, if you were describing the Mona Lisa, we all sort of have context. And so you kind of created your own context. So you write about artists and works of art that are fictional and you're constructing what are supposed to be these stages, stunning works of art, just out of your imagination. But you're telling me now you had these references. Did you spend time wandering museums or doing behind the scenes research about artists at all?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I didn't do a ton of research about artists. Ninth street women. I read this right around the time I started the Fine Art of Lying. It is such a fantastic book, but it is about the women of the abstract expressionist movement and their lives and their process. And I think I took so much from this book. Just like how it feels to be a painter, a creative person, and how they relate to art, both their own and other people's.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Are there any fictional authors that come to mind that you think do this?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Well, all the Beauty in the World by Patrick Bringley. It's written by a former guard of the Metropolitan Museum. He wrote about this almost like, meditative act of standing completely still for eight hours at a time in front of a work of art and how that relationship builds. It's a beautiful book that really reinforces the idea that art is for everybody. You do not need a background to go enjoy it.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I was sort of giggling to myself reading through some of the passages, because one of my favorite unhinged questions to ask people at, like, dinner parties is, if you were going to commit a crime tomorrow, what kind of crime would you commit?

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

And I would say, like, 8 out

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

of 10 people say some sort of art crime or art heist. Because there's so much, like, money laundering that can happen through the art world.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

It is crazy. Some of the research I did, I was reading, like, senate reports on the fraud in the art world and how unregulated it is. Nobody's paying taxes. It's really. It's sort of fascinating.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

It is. So I think that that sort of added another element of intrigue to what you were writing about. You know, before we began, I was telling you that I love Rees's videos announcing the new book club because she's always so excited. Right. And I was so obsessed with the way that she introduced yours. She says it's all about lying and making horrible decisions. And they're also wealthy, and it's New York, and it's the world of art. And I think that the art of lying hits on this trope that so many people are fascinated with, particularly right now, which is wealthy people behaving badly.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Why do we love to read about it?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

There's a lot of them. I mean, I think there's this sense that in this very wealthy milieu, everything is heightened, like their ambitions, their desires. Whereas you and I would go out and grab a bite to eat at a restaurant in the corner, they would hop on a private jet. It's like everything is taken to the next level. And then it also means that there's so much more to lose. There's more pressure there. And so I feel like it's a great setting for a novel or a movie. It's just everything. It's like all this drama compressed into one space, you know?

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

How insightful. Because you're right. So much of a book is about stakes, and you're raising the stakes. Exactly.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I mean, I'm not really setting out to write thrillers, but I always want the reader to be really invested, and I'm always worried the stakes are too low. And I always keep ratcheting them up. And then I'm like, oh, I got a dead body again. Cause of course, you know, that's the highest stake there is.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

So how do you raise stakes? What do you do as an author to raise the stakes in sort of an everyday scene?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

You know, I was just actually thinking about this. I was reading Ben Lerner's new novel, Transcription, and it starts with a character who's going to interview his old college professor, and he's broken his phone and he won't be able to record the interview. And these are like the lowest possible stakes. And yet you're reading it and you're like, oh, my God, what is it gonna do? And I was like, how does he do that? Because it is such a talent to take. I mean, all of us live in everyday lives where the stakes are mostly pretty low on a day to day basis. Am I going to miss this subway? But it feels so important when it's your life and it's such a talent to be able to make a reader feel so invested in the outcome. I mean, the way I do it, I think, is I try to just give a glimpse of how the character herself is feeling and what she stands to lose or gain, or I just make the stakes pretty high. Like prison, death.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

All the drama.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

All the drama.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I mean, as I was reading, I was really thinking, these people are just messier and a little bit older than the Gossip Girl crew. But it felt very similar.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Actually, you're not the only person who has said that.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Really? Yeah, well, I think partly, you know, it's set in the Upper east side. Is there a reason that you were drawn to that area, specifically?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Full disclosure, I grew up on the Upper east side, so it's a place I know very well. I have family still there. I have friends still there. So I was trying very hard not to, like, pillory that world because, I mean, it's very easy to, like, make these generalizations, but there's very, like, normal, interesting, down to earth people who live there. You know, when I wrote my first book, who is Maud Dixon? It was a world so separate from my own, and I think I was craving, like, a little bit more familiarity with the world I was describing.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Well, to your point, when I spend time on the Upper east side, it's actually a mix of a lot of different groups of people.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

It is. And I am choosing to focus on a very narrow segment of it. That's. That's very true.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

So you mentioned your first book, who is Maude Dixon? It was a huge hit. And both of these books are these driving mystery thrillers that really do get pretty dark. What makes you want to live in this genre over and over again?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I can't read anything dark. I can't even watch a preview for a scary movie. Like I'm such a movie.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

No way.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

It just doesn't feel real to me, I think. And I truthfully, I would never be able to write about something bad happening to a child or a kidnapping or something like that. I think my. I try to like shroud my topics in a little bit of like style or satire, campiness or humor so that it feels a little bit safer in a way.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Yeah. I mean, in the fine art of lying, there's criminals, there's shady art dealers, there's a very mean mother in law who could be the scariest and most stressful piece of the whole book, to be honest.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Honest? No, I feel like it's my duty to say that my own mother in law is nothing like that. She is lovely.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I, I do feel like you have to make a public service announcement so she's not upset.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Right.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Do you feel like your background as an investigative journalist helped you train in, in the questioning of everything, the questioning of the Upper east side, the questioning of the art world. Do you feel your training pop up when you're writing?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I think I've always been a little bit skeptical by nature. Or maybe someone who just likes to stand outside and observe. I'm sure a lot of writers would say that. I think I found out most from my investigative journalism background that I was so ill suited for it because you really, I mean, you have to be somewhat aggressive in a good way. I mean, you're, you're finding out the truth. But it made me so anxious and I just, it really made me realize like I want to be living in a world where I am asking these questions, but it's. Everything is inside my own head. I'm not getting in arguments with other people. It's totally non confrontational. So that was actually a very good lesson to learn from that job.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Why did you make the jump to writing fiction?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

All my life I wanted to write nonfiction. I wanted to be Joan Didion. I mean, I know she wrote fiction too, but I wanted to be an essayist like her. I worked in journalism and then, I don't know, I got a little off track with my career. I ended up doing copywriting and then graphic design. And then I married a novelist. And somehow writing novels just seemed like so removed from something normal people did. And then I was living with somebody and I'm like, oh, you're just a normal guy. And I was like, well, maybe I should try it. And he was so encouraging. I wanted to be a writer for like 15 years without actually writing. And my husband and I moved to Paris when we had a 77 month year old and we were gonna be there for two years. And I gave myself this ultimatum, like, either you write a book in this period, or you just. You come home, you forget being a writer, you find a job you love, and you commit to that career. And so it was like the mix of these two things. My husband encouraging me to try my hand at fiction and then having this deadline in my head that kind of got me.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

If you had always wanted to be a writer, why not become a writer from the beginning? Like, why. Why do this whole.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

It's the same thing that stops a lot of women. I mean, I don't want to speak for anybody else, but it was like misplaced perfectionism and self doubt and procrastination. I mean, just really, really normal stuff. And, I mean, probably a little laziness too. You know, you get home from your actual job and you don't really want to, like, engage your brain more. So I think I had to get over all of those humps. And it took a while.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

And what was it about Joan Didion that so admired?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Just her writing. Her writing style is so sharp and sparse, and she's just so truthful. Like, she doesn't do anything pat. She doesn't make generalizations. She doesn't care where the truth fits in. She's just like, I'm gonna tell you exactly how it is and exactly how it is for me, you know, I don't think she's trying to, like, push her view on anyone else. It's very personal.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I just read the Year of Magical Thinking for the first time based on a recommendation. And it's the first Joan Didion book

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

that I had read.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

And not only did I find that to be true, but I loved how she wrote about grief.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I mean, it's the farthest thing from anything, like, maudlin or sentimental, and yet it's so moving.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

It was very moving. And I don't know that you know how sometimes you can compare writing styles. I don't know that I could compare an author to her. I don't really know anybody who writes the way she does.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Right. I think that's probably true.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I was gonna ask you about what your investigative journalism day is, if any of it bled into your fictional writing, but maybe it's your undying search for truth.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Maybe. So, you know, in early drafts, I was using Agnes Martin and an Agnes Martin painting, who is a real life artist, as sort of the crux of the novel. And it wasn't exactly working for, like, purely logistical reasons. Like her paintings were too big. You couldn't really steal it. And my husband was like, just make up an artist. And. And I had this journalist gut reaction where I was like, but that would be lying. Where of course, this entire book is a lie, fiction is a lie. So I think my gut instinct is to stick to the truth and I need a little push to get over the fiction.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Humphrey, right now I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been. And I'm going to take her to eat all the best food, see the

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

best jazz music, and I'm going to

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

have to sneak in a museum or two. Trips like that are truly unforgettable. And what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now, if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb co host network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything, like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning you extra cash. Find a co [e-mail] host Today's episode

[Sponsor Voice]

is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands, but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort, and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss, and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton. Joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak. A story that spans generations. Forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything. Wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter. Slip into something cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our lives.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Learn [e-mail] Nothing compares to the anticipation of something new.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

A new start, a new year, a

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

new home, or a new car. When it's time to get a new car, where do you start? Car shopping can honestly be a little overwhelming, but it should be fun. Buying your next car should be exciting. And it can be if you remember one thing. Cars.com cars.com has the tools and expert advice to help you figure out what vehicle is right for you. Their advanced search filters allow you to explore 2 million new and used cars so that you can find the perfect car. The site is so easy to use. Looking for an electric vehicle with a third row and leather seats for easy cleanup? Cars.com has you covered. A variety of tools and badges are used to help shoppers understand the price of a vehicle and find the best deal. And every review is written by a real person reflecting a real life experience, so don't take any chances. Do car shopping the easy way. Start your search with cars.com where to next when you're planning a trip, it helps to have a credit card that rewards you no matter where you like to book. That's the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. What makes a difference is how flexible it is. You can earn rewards where you like to book travel. If you like going straight to the airline or hunting down a deal on a hotel site, this card is designed to keep rewarding you. Here's how the points stack up. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. So picture booking that hotel in the neighborhood you've always wanted to stay in, that's earning points. Grabbing flights for a last minute getaway. That's earning sitting down for that first dinner when you land. Still earning. Even the everyday stuff between trips can help toward your next journey. The Autograph Journey card from Wells Fargo helps turn the way you already travel, eat and explore into rewards. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply when you're a journalist.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Like there's almost this anxiety because you're searching for a story. With writing, you're creating the story. Do you source your fictional stories in the same way at all?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

No. A good friend of mine from high school opened up her own gallery in Chelsea here in New York with a friend of hers. It's called Barry Campbell. It's a beautiful gallery, but I went to her with a lot of my questions about the art world and how it works, the specifics like how does an art deal get done and taxes, things like that. And I think I would do that in the same way just to get background on a story that I was going to write. Yeah, but no. Everything is just so much looser with fiction. It's sort of freeing, although at times I miss the constraints of the truth. But it's a balance.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Did any part of you want something lighter and fluffier after your past job as an investigative journalist? Yes.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

To be honest, I couldn't read a newspaper for like a year after I left that job. It would just give me stress. And I actually ended up copywriting for a long time for J. Crew and then for Barney's. I ran the Barney's blog for a while. RIP Barneys, Truly. So I definitely did sort of veer very far away from that world at first.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

The most important question I will ask you today is did you end up purchasing the things that were linked in the Barney's blog? Did you end up making money or losing money from that job?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I did not have enough money to buy the like $6,000 T shirts that I was flogging to other people. No.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Where did the seed of this. Because I love that you just said that you would go to a friend and ask questions about the world. Where did the seed for this story start? Was it a headline, a Reddit post, or like an interaction you had with somebody?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

So I started writing this book. It was sort of at the height of COVID I had a baby on the day that New York City shut down for Covid. Response.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Wow.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

So I had a newborn and I had a three year old. And you know, like everyone, we were going a little nutty and I think I felt, you know, that the isolation and like foggy headedness of motherhood felt a little bit heightened because it was Covid, as it did for everybody. And so I really. I actually started out wanting to write about motherhood and I just wrote about a new mother who is sort of. She just doesn't feel like herself. She feels like she's lost herself. And I was asking myself what would happen if someone made a decision when they're not feeling like themselves that actually like changed the entire course of their life. And I was interested in that idea. And then I actually ended up at the Met, the Metropolitan Museum, at an Alice Neel show. I think this was like early 2021 and New York was still really weird. Like, the subways were empty, the streets were empty, and the Met was just packed. And I had to wait 30 minutes in line just to get into this exhibition. And it was such a moving exhibition, and I was so moved by all the people there. And I was just like, I don't think any of us realize that, like, art was playing such a big role in our lives until it was, like, snatched away and we couldn't actually have access to it anymore. And especially. And the way it, like, creates this community, I don't know. I was just very moved. And so I think I came home after that exhibition and I made Claire an art lover. And so it was sort of those two things. A frustrated mother and an art lover who has, like, sort of lost that spark that came together.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

The losing of the spark is a thread I want to pull on because I just had lunch with sort of a television critic, and there are so many shows on television right now, similar

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

to Friends and Neighbors.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Are you watching that by any chance?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I'm not, but I do know why you're. I do know the show.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Okay. So for anyone listening, it's a Jon Hamm show, and it's showcasing sort of big stakes and the drama of very wealthy people behaving badly. And there's an element of it where Jon Hamm's character is this guy who's, like, making decisions just because that's what you do. So in your 20s, you get married, and then you have kids, and then you move to the suburbs. And now he's in his mid-40s, and he's sort of flipped out a bit because things didn't happen the way he thought they would. And this television critic I was at lunch with was saying, there are so many shows on air like that right now because so many television executives are wanting to see their own lives reflected on screen.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

And that's so interesting. Like, they've sort of made it, but they're like, what was it for? Why don't I feel better right now? Oh, that's fascinating.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

That is exactly it. And the thread in your novel about this woman who became a mother and has sort of this juxtaposition or, like, a yearning for something I think is so prevalent in culture right now. Is it something that you personally were considering and thinking about and feeling?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Yes, I think when I became a mother, my brain was just so wrapped up in the responsibilities and the logistics. It's on a very, like. It's on a very practical track, in a way. And all the magic is sort of reserved for, like, marveling at your child, and you lose a lot of engagement with the rest of the world, and the magic isn't coming from there anymore. And I did feel like I lost that. Like, I felt the loss of that spark very keenly. Like, books I was reading weren't hitting me as hard. Music wasn't like, I just. I don't know, I felt a little like I was wrapped in bubble wrap or something. I also had this. You know, I never thought I was going to write a book. When I was writing, I was like, I'm never going to finish it. And then I was like, I'm never going to sell it. And then at every step of the way, I just couldn't believe it was happening. And I remember saying to my husband, like, if I become a published author, that's it. I will be happy for the rest of my life. And I'm so grateful, and I do feel so lucky. But at the same time, I'm still me. I'm still a worrier and neurotic, and I'm still getting up and worrying about whatever, do we have enough milk? And it's like these big things change, but your life actually doesn't feel like it changes that much. And I was thinking of somebody like Claire, who's who. You know, on paper, her life is perfect. You know, she doesn't have to work if she doesn't want to. Her husband adores her, she's got a healthy child. And yet, you know, I was aware that some people would find her maybe a little bratty or something because, like, she's. She's complaining when she has so much. But I do think there's a way that you can get all these markers of success, and it just still doesn't feel like. Or it's not filling you up in the way that you thought it would.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

You describe her in a way where it feels like she's just living on autopilot. And so it almost doesn't matter that she has these fancy Upper east side events to go to. Like, everything changes when she meets this art dealer, Gabriel, and her life turns upside down. It's just so fun to read, because I think there's a piece of everybody,

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

no matter what job you're in, whether you're a mom or not, there's this lit.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Like, there's, like, a question we all ask ourselves, like, is this it? Or is there more?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Is this it? Exactly. Exactly, yes. You know, my husband just wrote a beautiful book, a nonfiction book called why I'm not an atheist. It could not be more different from my book. It's a memoir, sort of about leaving the Catholic Church and then coming back to the Catholic Church and looking at a lot of these, like, Western philosophers to, like, try to find answers for the meaning of life. And my book is obviously very different, but I think a lot of it really does boil down to the question, is this it? Like, where. Where's the wonder? Like, when you're a kid, you have so much wonder and you think it's just going to continue, and then one day you're just sort of like, oh, I don't have that anymore. And it can. It can. I think it can feel like a really big loss, especially if you don't have something like religion to fill it, which, personally, I don't. And so I. I do think I. I go and get that from art or literature or wherever I can.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I like that you use the word

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

wonder, because I was going to use the word meaning.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

And I think wonder is more spot on because we can find meaning in other ways. It's the wonder that, when you're an adult, can be difficult to find in healthy.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Like, the world is so much bigger than we are. And it's. It's magical. And I mean, it is. It's amazing. Like, if. But it's hard to feel that in your gut sometimes because you're so distracted by your real life.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Right. And so when Claire makes the decision to take a meeting with Gabriel, it sets off the entire plot. And do you think she was feeling wonder at that time? I think she was trying to feel

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

wonder, but I think she start. When she was with Gabriel, she started to feel like her old self again. And then that sort of coincided with. She got the spark back when she was looking at art, which she had lost for so long. I think she goes to a Hopper exhibit at the Whitney with Gabriel and she's like, oh, my God, it's back, it's back. And so she regains the wonder at the same time as she starts having this relationship with Gabriel, which is, you know, there's some relationship there. It's correlated somehow. I don't know if it's totally cause and effect, but I think it does influence her feeling, like, well, I have to follow this and see where it leads.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Well, and I don't want to call her choice terrible because I actually don't see it that way, but I think it could be put in the bucket of terrible depending on how you feel about things. Every character in your book makes terrible choices at some point. And in thrillers, I think characters rarely make perfect decisions, and people rarely think that they are making the wrong choice in the moment. I think they're usually convinced that they're making the right one, which is why they've made it. Do you feel like female desire in fiction is underwritten?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Not anymore. I mean, I think with books like All Fours or Sally Rooney, I think it's there. But historically, yes, I find that it's

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

written differently than men's, though. It feels like. It feels as if it's written as a little bit taboo. And when I read about men's desire, it's like it. It reads to me as if they're just men.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Like, I feel this way and I act this way, and that is in accordance with nature and societal norms. So why would I worry about that? And, yes, I do think it's often much more complicated for women. And, yeah, I do think Claire has a lot of guilt because I do think this idea of, like, desire for meaning, for wonder, but also for sex, and it's all sort of wrapped up together in a big, messy ball.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Oh, yeah.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

And I think she says that at some point, like, the language for art and the language for sex are very similar. Like, this idea of, like, being in rapture. So, yeah, I do think it's messier than one might assume.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

You know, you're making me think of Esther Perel's work because she often says that so much of our sexual desires are actually us sort of reenacting our own life experiences and trying to. Trying to experience them in a different way.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Right now.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

I'm super excited for my upcoming trip to Atlanta. I'm taking my mom to celebrate her birthday. She's never been. And I'm gonna take her to eat all the best food, see the best jazz music, and I'm gonna have to sneak in a museum or two. Trips like that are truly unforgettable. And what makes it even better is staying at a place on Airbnb. Now, if you're planning any upcoming trips, you could be hosting your home on Airbnb. And with Airbnb Co Host Network, you could hire a local co host to handle everything, like creating your listing, managing reservations, guest communication, on site support, and even styling your space. So while you're making your own memories, your home can be helping another family make theirs and earning you extra cash. Find a co [e-mail] host.

[Sponsor Voice]

Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton. We spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and with characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for lazy weekend mornings with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Us.

[Sponsor Voice]

It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like the books we cherish, cotton weaves meaning into our everyday moments. Moments like following four adult daughters as they navigate love, loss and the legacy in the Most Fun We Ever had by Claire Lombardo, all while curled up in soft cotton joggers or sinking into the island of Missing Trees by Elif Shafak. A story that spans generations, forbidden love and a fig tree that remembers everything, wrapped in a hand stitched quilt, each thread holding its own kind of memory. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something cotton, not just

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

to read the story, but to feel it.

[Sponsor Voice]

Cotton the fabric of our lives.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Learn [e-mail] Nothing compares to the anticipation of something new.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

A new start, a new year, a

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

new home, or a new car. When it's time to get a new car, where do you start? Car shopping can honestly be a little overwhelming, but it should be fun. Buying your next car should be exciting. And it can be if you remember one thing. Cars.com cars.com has the tools and expert advice to help you figure out what vehicle is right for you. Their advanced search filters allow you to explore 2 million new and used cars so that you can find the perfect car. The site is so easy to use.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Looking for an electric vehicle with a

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

third row and leather seats for easy cleanup, Cars.com has you covered. A variety of tools and badges are used to help shoppers understand the price of a vehicle and find the best deal. And every review is written by a real person reflecting a real life experience, so don't take any chances. Do car shopping the easy way. Start your search with cars.com where to next when you're planning a trip, it helps to have a credit card that rewards you no matter where you like to book. That's the Autograph Journey credit card from Wells Fargo. What makes a difference is how flexible it is. You can earn rewards where you like to book travel. If you like going straight to the airline or hunting down a deal on a hotel site, this card is designed to keep rewarding you. Here's how the points stack up you get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. So picture booking that hotel in the neighborhood you've always wanted to stay in, that's earning points. Grabbing flights for a last minute getaway, that's earning. Sitting down for that first dinner when you land, still earning. Even the everyday stuff between trips can help toward your next journey. The autograph journey card from Wells Fargo helps turn the way you already travel, eat and explore into rewards. Learn more@wells fargo.com autographjourney Terms apply.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Okay, I have questions about you being an editor and a copywriter because

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

at one point was going down the path of trying to write a fictional novel and I got advice from a friend who is a writer, a published author, and she said, write one true thing. Just start there. So for instance.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Oh, I love that.

[Sponsor Voice]

Gave me this example.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

She said, I am lying to everybody in my life and I am the happiest I've ever been. Period. Just start there.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Can I steal that? That's so good.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

It's a good opening line, right?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

So good.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

So here's what happened.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I started writing this fictional story and I found myself editing as I was writing because in my work I'm a creator and an editor. You have been a copywriter and an editor. How did you find the experience of writing and did you edit yourself during the process?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

That's such a good question. I made a rule for myself that I could not look back at anything I had written in my first draft. This is for my first book, first draft. I just had to keep moving forward and I would open the word document and I would like almost close my eyes as I scroll to the end of it. And I was like. Because otherwise I would just edit a single paragraph to death. And actually, I think you're taking a lot of life out of it. Like, I think when you just write in this really like stream of consciousness way, it will need to be edited later. But it has this life and vitality to it that you don't want to take out. So I just, I just refused to look back at anything I had written until I had like 20,000 words or something. And then I felt like I had reached this like critical point where, all right, I'm going to finish it now. Like, I've put in this much and I knew I wouldn't sort of get like sucked backwards as much anymore.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

So the way that my friend Chelsea said to me, write one true thing. Have you had an author friend say something to you that really helped you or stuck with you.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I'm sure I have. You know what my husband kept saying to me during when I was writing my first. Well, both books, to be honest, I would be like, I hate this. I don't think this is the right track. I want to switch. I think I should do something else. And he was just like, this is just part of the process. You feel like this and then you just. Just keep going and it stops feeling like that after a while. Like every single person hates it. You just have to get through. Just survive a little bit of hating it and not act on it. Which I think is invaluable advice.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I really love what you just shared because I basically heard, welcome to the club. There's something really helpful in hearing that all the hard stuff that you're feeling that feels like nobody else ever felt it before is just part of the process. Yes.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

And I don't think you could actually write a novel without those feelings or I don't think it would be a very honest or rich novel if you didn't have those feelings. I don't know.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Well, it's almost summer, which means it's almost beach read season. And I feel like thrillers have become go to beach reads in a way that they haven't in the past. Case in point, the Art of Lying is hitting shelves in May. What is it about the heat that you think makes everyone want to read about murder?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I don't know if it's the heat, but I feel like it's the light and the happiness and lightness that's in the air. Like people are working a little bit less, they're taking vacations. I think it makes us a little bit better equipped to handle themes like death and loss and criminal activity where it feels a little bit more distant and not like, you know, it's like I'm sitting on the beach. Like, they can do whatever they want to do, but I am just fine, thank you.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

We've had a few thriller writers on the show. We have had Laura Dave. We've had Ruth Ware. And I found that each person brings something different to the genre. Is there anything that you think really

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

makes a great thriller or mystery?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

For me, it just always comes back to character. Always, always, always. I have to be invested in the character, both as a reader and a writer. I have to find them interesting.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

And what makes it interesting to you?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

If she. I keep saying she just because I happen to write mostly about female characters, but I think I'm most interested if she has Like a deep depth of feeling and thoughts about her broader life. I really like writing about women who are sort of at like a pivot point in their life and they're trying to decide which way to go. And I like reading about that too. Like, how do we shape a life? And even something like a thriller that's supposed to be fun and enjoyable, I think can always come back to that question, like, how do you shape your life? And I think I'm looking as a reader, I'm looking for some. A character who is sort of bouncing those questions around as well.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Someone just said to me that research is me search. And you're making me think, like, you must have had this question, how do you shape a life?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I do think about it a lot. I have this fear of wasting my life. My father died when I was quite young and I just feel like, you know, time is running out. Like, is this really what I should be doing? And I probably spend too much time worrying about whether I'm using my time.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Well, I'm obsessed with time too. Alexandra.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I just had the most amazing run in on the subway with a stranger. I'm not gonna get into, like, the whole thing because it's a really long story, but it started with him complimenting my haircut, which I really hate. And so we got in this back and forth and he said I was recently in a car coma. And when I came out of it, I knew one thing with total certainty and that the only thing that matters in life is how you spend your time and who you give your time to. And I started crying on this subway. And I'm not a crier. It was. I don't know why it just hit me like that. Like, life is literally. It's just time. That's all it is. And you have to devote it to something. And it's like a literal devotion. And I've been thinking about it non stop since it happened.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I understand why, because. Because it can pass you by if you're not intentional about it. Like, you can wake up and it's four months later. It's really a wild thing. I wanna go back to your character building for a second because I just saw some conversations online recently about the relationship between character and plot. And I think sometimes you get a book where the characters feel super real but nothing really happens in the plot. And then other times you get the opposite. You have like this incredible storyline, but the characters can feel a little underdeveloped. And when you're writing a thriller, I think the only way it works is if you have a balance of both of those things. How do you manage the relationship between those two elements?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

That's a good question. I think just like so much editing, I think in my early drafts, I put in too much of Claire's inner thoughts about motherhood. And it was really slowing down the pace. Towards the end, I had so much action like, this happens, this happens, this happens. And I realized I needed to slow it down a little bit. I've been a lifelong reader, as I'm sure a lot of people listening to this are. And it just. I think when you absorb so many stories, you just get like a really, like a gut level sense of pacing and narrative. So I guess. I guess that's my answer. I sort of. It's a gut feeling.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

You seem so humble. So if I could place you on your high horse for a moment and we take all of your time around. Up there.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Let's get up there.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Just climb on up.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

What do you think is the most. What do you think is the most important rule of suspense that a lot of people secretly get wrong?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I don't think you necessarily have to have so much happen. I think you have to just have the character. It needs to be so incredibly important to the character. And then you need to somehow communicate that to the reader. And I don't think I always follow that advice myself. I think sometimes I'm just piling upon, like, action and action and action. You know, it's sort of when I'm watching a movie and a fight scene comes on, it's supposed to be the exciting part. I'm always like, this is so boring. I think sometimes if you're writing a thriller, it just feels like a very enticing option to be able to, like, add and then this. And then this person dies and there's this secret and it can get a little soap opera. And I think. I think I personally need to trust myself a little bit more that I can make smaller plot actions mean something to the reader.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

So it would be. It's about the stakes of the character. Like, we have to feel the.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Yeah, I think we're coming back to stakes again. I do. Yeah.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Yeah. Did you feel pressure at all after

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

your first book was so successful to write a follow up that was as successful?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I felt something. I don't know. I had something such a hard time starting my second book. I actually started three different novels before I started the Fine Art of Lying and like, abandoned them. I don't know what it was. I think, you know, when I Wrote my first book. I was working and it was just like this hobby and on the side, and it was sort of like fun and playful. And I worried for a long time that I had sort of lost that. And now I was like, all right, time to get to work. And I didn't want that sort of that feeling to come across in the writing. So I think I. I've had to work very hard to try to regain that sense of, like, fun and playfulness.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

It's also different when you call yourself an author. Like, you had a different title the first time you wrote. I always think about people who are great singers and if they go do karaoke, it's like, oh, wow, that person can sing. But if you have a professional singer doing karaoke, you start, like, critiquing them, you know?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Right, Totally.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Do you ever start writing the end

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

to one of your mysteries or thrillers?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I don't think I've ever started with the end, but I've definitely started with the middle. I think I always start with the middle, actually.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Ooh, say more.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

The first thing I wrote was I wrote this scene about somebody, a woman cowering in a closet in an unfamiliar apartment, listening to someone get killed and just having. Just freezing, having no idea what to do.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

And then do you work?

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

You work backwards from that point.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

That's interesting that you start with the middle. So is it just like one scene?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I work, like, every which way. I go backwards, I go forwards. I mean, the opening prologue to the Fine Art of Lying was actually added pretty late. I just do a lot of character building, I think, at the beginning of a novel. And I wanted to give the reader some promise that things were going to get more interesting. So I moved up that prologue where she's over the body. I moved up her initial meeting with Gabriel, and I took out a little bit of her day to day, just setting up her life.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

It's so cool to hear this because the more authors I interview, the more I realize there is no right way to write a novel.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Yeah, it's like raising kids. It's like all these parenting books. It's like there's no one way to parent. It's just. It's different for every kid and it's different for every book.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Yeah, and I'm sort of amazed by you too, because the thread is woven so well in the novel that you would never know that you started with this random scene in the middle.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

You know, something I learned from writing my first book was how easy it is to go back and add something like just one line of dialogue, like one scene. You can just slip it in and it makes it very easy to like, establish a thread when actually you've already written most of the books.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

So there was a five year gap between your first and your second novels. Do we have to wait another five years for the next one? Alexandra, I really hope not.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

I am trying. I am trying to get on it. With enough coffee and Internet blocking software, I will do it for real.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I always ask our guests one question and. And it's something sort of silly. So what's something that you are so obsessed with that you could write a book about it, but you probably won't?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Gosh, you know what? I'm a real nut about Will Shorts at the New York Times. I just do so many crossword puzzles, I cannot even tell you. And I love his. The acrostics. The New York. They're all New York Times. I'm solidly like New York Times puzzles. Only I do the acrostics and they sell these books of them and they're really hard to get. So I have to get them, like, used that are a little filled out. I don't. I just. Nothing calms me down like just doing a crossword. It's really nerdy, but it's the truth.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

I love crosswords, too. I totally understand that. Alexandra, I want to play a fun game with you before we wrap up. I want to create our own little mystery thriller together. So this can be as unhinged.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Maybe it's not going to take me five years. Maybe it's going to take me 10 minutes. Let's see if we can get my next book out.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Let's do it. Okay. I want to be a part of this. I'm invested. The stakes are high for me. Who is our main character?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Like an aging countess in Italy, In Venice.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Okay. Where does this story take place? In Venice, in Italy.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

It's got to be Venice. Yeah. I think in like a crumbling villa or palazzo. A crumbling palazzo.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

What is the central mystery or crime we're dealing with?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Her death. Her death. I think she's been murdered.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

So she is the victim. Does the victim hold a secret?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

A secret child, I think.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Secret child.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

And what is the cause of death?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Poison. I feel like I'm giving myself away that I was obsessed with Agatha Christie novels when I was like a late teen. I read all of them. I'm like a hemlock in the teacup.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

What are the clues that are left behind?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Can we say, like a diary, a journal? That's a good One like a rope. A rope. A piece of rope. Am I just thinking about the game clue?

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Maybe that's what you made me think of. Okay. Why did the perpetrator do it?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Revenge. You think it's money, but it's revenge.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Who has the best reason or motive to kill the victim?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

The heir. Her. Her son, A failed entrepreneur.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

What red herrings will deceive the reader?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Bloody footprints belonging to the son. But in fact, he discovered the body and then left the body. But he didn't actually kill his mother.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

So who's our murderer?

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

The secret daughter. Let's go with the secret daughter.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Wow. That's a turn I wasn't expecting. Alexandra, thank you. You were so much fun.

[Alexandra Andrews (Guest Author)]

Thank you. This was such a delight.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Oh, now I know why your novels read so fun. You are so fun. Okay, friends, before you go, it's that

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

time of the month when we're counting down to the big announcement, the June

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Reese's Book Club pick.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

I already can't wait. And I'm excited to share that our partners at Apple Books are once again offering a free book drop where they are giving away up to 1,000 ebooks

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

of the current pick.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

It's part of the summer's most anticipated

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

collection from Apple Books, which you can

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

check out at Apple co Cominginsummer. Are you ready for a hint as

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

to what the June pick could be?

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Okay, let's play our favorite game, two clues and a lie. I'm going to share three phrases with you. Two of them are deeply connected to the book and one purely a distraction. Okay, here we go. The first phrase is guess who's back.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

The second is.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Is the big Apple. The third and final is not so lucky.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

So which of these things does not belong? And do the two clues remaining tip

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

you off to the June pick? If you have a guess, let me know. Leave me a voice memo at 501-291-3379. And if you want to be among the 1,000 people to get a code and redeem a free ebook, all you have to do is follow Apple Booksleep Books and Reese's Book Club esbook on Instagram to get notified about next month's free book drop. That's it for this episode of bookmarked

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

by Reese's Book Club.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

Our phone line is now open, so

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

if you want to go 90s on

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

us, give us a call at 1501, 2913379. That's 1500. 12913379. Share your literary hot takes, your book recommendations questions about the monthly Pick or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't overthink it. Give us a ring and if you want more, come hang with us. Reese's Book Club is on Instagram serving up books, good vibes and all the behind the scenes scenes stuff you love. And I'm Danielle Robay. R O B A Y so come say hi and please seriously DM me because I actually read them and I love hearing what you think about the episodes. And don't forget to follow Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. We'll see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts, executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and Me, Danielle Robe production by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Foley, Brittany Martinez and Sarah Schleed. Our editor is Carmen Borca Carillo. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla, Ashley Rapaport and Sarah Kerner are associate producers for Reese's

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Book Club and Ali Perry is executive

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

producer for iHeart podcasts.

[Sponsor Voice]

Today's episode is brought to you by Cotton we spend a lot of time with stories, hours curled up with dynamic plots and characters who feel like friends. What if the story isn't just in your hands but also in the world around you, in the fabric that's holding you close? Cotton is that timeless companion. Soft sheets for a lazy weekend morning with a book. Breezy dresses for afternoons spent reading in the backyard. It's the fabric that can be tossed in the wash without fuss. It's about ease, comfort and caring for yourself and the planet. Just like books we cherish, cotton leaves meaning into everyday moments. Next time you settle in for a chapter, slip into something. Cotton not just to read the story, but to feel it. Cotton the fabric of our Lives Lives. Learn more at the fabric of our

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

lives.com the autograph journey credit card from Wells Fargo is built for travel. You can earn rewards wherever you book your favorite hotel, site your go to airline and more. You get five times points with hotels, four times with airlines, three times on restaurants and other travel, and one point on other purchases. Whether it's a big vacation or a quick getaway from booking your stay to that first meal when you arrive, you're turning your trips into rewards with the Autograph Journey Card from Wells Fargo. Learn more at Wells Fargo.com autographjourney Terms

[Grainger Sponsor Voice]

apply if you work in university maintenance, Grainger considers you an MVP because your playbook ensures your arena is always ready for tip off. And Grainger is your trusted partner, offering the products you need all in one place, from H Vac and plumbing supplies to lighting and more. And all delivered with plenty of time left on the clock, so your team always gets the win. Call 1-800-GRAINGER visit grainger.com or just stop by Grainger for the ones who get it done.

[HomeServe Sponsor Voice]

Owning a home is full of surprises, some wonderful, some not so much. And when something breaks, it can feel like the whole day unravels. That's why HomeServe exists. For as little as $4.99 a month. You'll always have someone to call a trusted professional ready to help, bringing peace of mind to four and a half million homeowners nationwide. For plans starting at just 499amonth, go to homeserve.com that's homeserve.com not available everywhere. Most plans range between 499 to 1199amonth. Your first year terms apply on covered repairs.

[Host 1 (Podcast Announcer)]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Danielle Robay (Podcast Host)]

Guaranteed Human.