The Ripped Bodice Sisters Talk Finding Your Romance Niche and Reclaiming the Genre

Summary

Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club Episode: The Ripped Bodice Sisters Talk Finding Your Romance Niche and Reclaiming the Genre Release Date: July 1, 2025

In this vibrant episode of Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club, host Danielle Robay delves deep into the flourishing world of romance novels and the dedicated sisters behind the pioneering Ripped Bodice Bookstores. The episode features two insightful interviews: one with bestselling author Beck Dori Stein about her new book Spectacular Things, and another with Bea and Leah Koch, the entrepreneurial sisters redefining the romance bookstore landscape.

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Interview with Beck Dori Stein

Celebrating Pub Day and Embracing Motherhood (05:29)

Beck Dori Stein begins by sharing her unique tradition of celebrating Pub Day with a morning run to maintain her sanity amid the whirlwind of motherhood. "No day is ever my own anymore," she reflects, highlighting the joyful challenges of balancing her role as a new mom with her writing career.

Introducing Spectacular Things (06:15)

Danielle transitions to Beck’s latest work, Spectacular Things, a touching narrative about two sisters navigating ambition, sacrifice, and the complexities of personal growth. Beck describes the novel as "about sisters. It's about soccer. It's about ambition and success and failure and sacrifice." (06:31) This blend of personal passion and universal themes resonates deeply with readers seeking both heartfelt stories and relatable characters.

Exploring Core Themes (07:36)

Beck delves into the central questions her book poses: "What are we willing to give up for the people we love? And when, if ever, does that sacrifice on behalf of family edge into self-sabotage?" (07:36) These themes invite readers to introspect on their own relationships and the balance between selflessness and self-care.

The Influence of Motherhood on Writing (08:01)

Discussing her personal experiences, Beck shares how becoming a mother influenced her writing process. "In the early days of motherhood, I was like, I don't think this book is ever going to get finished because I wasn't sleeping." (08:06) Yet, she finds humility and inspiration in her son’s presence, enriching the emotional depth of her novel.

Soccer as a Metaphor (08:49)

Beck’s love for soccer serves as a significant backdrop in her story. She recounts her childhood passion ignited by her brother Zach: "We grew up playing it in the backyard. I wanted to do whatever he was doing." (09:03) This passion translates into the novel, where the dynamics of teamwork and competition mirror the intricate relationships between the sisters.

Title Inspiration from Poetry (10:15)

The book’s title, Spectacular Things, draws inspiration from Ada Limone’s poem, Dead Stars. Beck shares, "Look, we are not unspectacular things. We've come this far, survived this much. What would happen if we decided to survive more, to love harder?" (10:30) This poignant epigraph sets the tone for the novel, emphasizing resilience and the beauty in everyday moments.

Focusing on the Small Spectacular Moments (12:24)

Beck emphasizes her intention to highlight the "small things that we all sort of experience but don't quite know how to put into words." (12:24) Through metaphorical elements like sports, she captures heightened emotions and everyday pressures, making the narrative both relatable and profound.

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Interview with Bea and Leah Koch of Ripped Bodice Bookstores

Introducing Ripped Bodice Bookstores (13:16 – 19:20)

Danielle Robay welcomes Bea and Leah Koch, the visionaries behind Ripped Bodice, the first all-romance bookstores in North America. Launched in Culver City, California in 2016, and expanding to New York City in 2023, the bookstores have become sanctuaries for romance enthusiasts. "The shelves are organized by romance subgenre rather than alphabetically," Bea explains, highlighting their dedication to creating a tailored and immersive shopping experience.

The Journey to Opening the Store (19:22 – 29:03)

Bea recounts their entrepreneurial journey, from crowdfunding nearly $100,000 to their unexpected stint as bartenders on Watch What Happens Live. "We're so excited to have you because you two have gone from being sisters... to Kickstarter Queens," Danielle praises their tenacity and innovative spirit.

Reclaiming "Bodice Rippers" (29:20 – 32:27)

Addressing the term "bodice rippers," Bea shares their mission to reclaim and redefine it. "We know what you say about us, and we're gonna kind of rise from the ashes of this term that's been used as a pejorative, and instead, it's ours now." (31:48) This reclamation signifies their broader goal of celebrating romance literature and its passionate community.

Expanding Despite Challenges (33:00 – 34:05)

Discussing the opening of their second store amid post-COVID uncertainties, Bea reflects on the skepticism they faced. "We kept telling people that this is the bestselling genre... but no one had thought to open a bookstore for the genre that is mostly read by women." (34:12) Their persistence paid off, establishing Ripped Bodice as a cornerstone in the romance book industry.

Romance as a Community Builder (34:05 – 37:15)

Bea and Leah explore how romance novels foster strong communities, akin to reality TV fandoms. "Romance is the genre of feelings... it's about family, relationships, friends, the community that the people exist in." (34:05) Their bookstores host events like midnight release parties, creating magical moments for fans to celebrate together.

Romance and Feminism (35:39 – 37:15)

The sisters discuss the evolving perception of romance as a feminist genre. "So many romance novels that are published have nothing to do with like I must get married." (35:59) They emphasize their commitment to curating books with feminist messages, challenging misconceptions that romance is solely about traditional relationships or superficial allure.

Bookstore Aesthetics and Organization (40:27 – 42:58)

Bea and Leah describe the inviting and vibrant atmosphere of their stores. "We use books as objects, as art. They are misprints or somebody's dog chewed on it... we celebrate the feminine." (40:37) Their creative display methods and subgenre-specific sections enhance the shopping experience, making each visit unique and enjoyable.

Book Recommendations and Final Thoughts (43:30 – 48:06)

In a lively speed round, Bea and Leah share their favorite romance tropes, book recommendations, and audiobook experiences. Highlights include defending the "friends to lovers" trope and recommending titles like Pride Prejudice and Other Flavors by Sonali Dev. Their enthusiasm underscores their deep passion for the genre and dedication to connecting readers with books that resonate emotionally.

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Conclusion

This episode of Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club masterfully intertwines discussions on the romantic literary landscape with personal anecdotes and professional insights. Beck Dori Stein’s exploration of familial bonds and personal sacrifice in Spectacular Things, combined with Bea and Leah Koch’s entrepreneurial spirit and dedication to fostering a vibrant romance community, provide listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the genre’s current dynamics and future potential. Through engaging conversations and heartfelt quotes, the episode celebrates the enduring power of romance literature and the passionate individuals driving its success.

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Notable Quotes:

• Beck Dori Stein on balancing sacrifice: "What are we willing to give up for the people we love? And when, if ever, does that sacrifice on behalf of family edge into self-sabotage?" (07:36)

• Bea Koch on reclaiming "bodice rippers": "We're gonna rise from the ashes of this term that's been used as a pejorative, and instead, it's ours now." (31:48)

• Leah Koch on romance fandom: "Romance is the genre of feelings... it's about family, relationships, friends, the community that the people exist in." (34:05)

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, providing a rich and engaging overview for both regular listeners and newcomers alike.

Transcript

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[Danielle Robay]

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[Danielle Robay]

Club is presented by Apple Books. Hi, I'm Danielle Robaix, and welcome to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club. Okay, before we get into today's show, I just want to say thank you truly. The love for our premiere episode last week has been. I think the word is overwhelming. Thank you all for your comments and your shares and your likes and your DMs. Your DMs are my favorite part. I see you and I'm so grateful you're here. The best part of this show is the club part. Like the book club part, right? It's so fun to talk with all of you. And also so many of you have great suggestions. You're not just readers, you're great producers too. So keep it all coming. I really meant it when I said this space is for you. Today the excitement continues with not one, but two interviews. A little later on, I'm talking to Bea and Leah Koch, the powerhouse sisters behind the Ripped Bodice, which is the country's first romance focused bookstore. We're diving into the billion dollar romance industry. It's still so underestimated. We're also spilling tea from behind the scenes at Watch what Happens Live, where they were bartenders, and of course they're dishing out their top romance novel recs. So prepare your TBR lists. But first, it's time to kick off a new tradition. So at the beginning of every month, I'll be announcing the brand new Reese's Book Club pick right here and giving you a little treat. A release date interview with the author herself. And then at the end of the month, we'll bring the author back for the full deep dive. So you have all month to read along, mark your favorite passages, and come ready to discuss all of the juicy details. Okay. Drumroll, please. Our July 2025 Reese's Book Club pick is Spectacular Things by Beck Dori Stein. Beck is a former White House stenographer turned bestselling author. And if you don't know what a stenographer is, I googled for the both of us, babe. They're responsible for accurately transcribing everything the President and senior White House officials say in public remarks and briefings, press conferences, and sometimes private meetings. Can you imagine the conversations she listened in on Beck's debut novel, Rock the Boat captivated readers. And her latest, Spectacular Things is just as moving. It follows two sisters, each faced with the question of what they're willing to sacrifice to care for one another and for themselves, all the while navigating ambition, big Dreams and the complicated journey of who we become in pursuit of them. It's her first interview as a Reese's Book Club pick. And what a treat that we get to chat with her. Beck, welcome to the club. Your book is officially out in the world today. Happy Pub Day. I'm so excited for you. First and foremost, how are you celebrating? Do you have a pub Day tradition?

[Beck Dori Stein]

Oh, thank you, Danielle. Yeah, quite a day. Do I have a pub Day tradition? I try not to lose my mind and go for a run. Like, wake up, go for a run, try to clear my head and be a sane person and just see how the day goes. And now it's fun because this will be the first book I've published since becoming a mom. So that'll also definitely keep me humble because that's what a toddler does.

[Danielle Robay]

How does being a mom change Pub Day? What do you mean by that?

[Beck Dori Stein]

No day is ever my own anymore. And I mean that in the best way possible. But I. I've got a three year old son. His name is Hank. And so if Hank wakes up and is in a great mood, that is even more exciting for me. And if he wakes up and doesn't want to get dressed, well, then pub day waits until I can get that kid into a pair of shorts.

[Danielle Robay]

I really like that Hank in shorts gets precedent over pub day or text messages celebrating you. You know, without giving too much away because we don't want any spoilers yet, how would you describe the book to someone picking it up for the first time?

[Beck Dori Stein]

Ooh. Okay, so Spectacular Things, it's about sisters. It's about soccer. It's about ambition and success and failure and sacrifice. It's about everything we do for people and things we love and the complexity that comes along with that.

[Danielle Robay]

For the girlies who are grabbing Spectacular Things off the shelf today, or even who pre ordered it and get to pick it up at their local bookstore, what do you think they should be.

[Beck Dori Stein]

Looking for while they're reading the Family Dynamics?

[Bea Koch]

I really.

[Beck Dori Stein]

I had a great time grappling with and hopefully I give each character enough sympathy. But those sibling dynamics get tricky real fast.

[Danielle Robay]

Your first book was a memoir. And then Rock the Boat was your second book and it was a novel. And when I finished the last page of it, I thought, you are really asking us questions in all of your books, regardless of if they're memoir or fiction. What questions are you asking us to think about in Spectacular Things?

[Beck Dori Stein]

I think the big question in Spectacular Things is what are we willing to give up for the People we love. And when, if ever, does that sacrifice on behalf of family edge into self sabotage? Because, like, love requires sacrifice. And so it's just sort of like, where do you find that balance?

[Danielle Robay]

Is it something that you were struggling or thinking about or dealing with as you were writing this?

[Beck Dori Stein]

Well, I'm a middle child. I've been dealing with it my whole life. We're called the Peacemakers. So, yes, especially since becoming a new mom, it's really. You know, there were definitely in the early days of motherhood, I was like, I don't think this book is ever going to get finished because I wasn't sleeping. Sleep deprivation is a method of torture for a reason. It really makes you lose your mind. So excited to be a mom. Also, just who am I, and where do the rest of the people in my life fall into this? Because I've always prided myself on being a really good friend. And all of a sudden I couldn't be the same kind of supportive friend that I'd been because I was up from 4 to 7 every morning.

[Danielle Robay]

I know that you like to blend your real life and fiction together, and I was wondering why you chose soccer as the backdrop for this story. Where did soccer fit into your life?

[Beck Dori Stein]

I love soccer so much. It was very much my first love. I have to give my brother doesn't get, like, any props in this book because there's no older brother. But my older brother Zach is the one who introduced me to soccer. We grew up playing it in the backyard. I wanted to do whatever he was doing. And so I grew up playing soccer. I grew up playing sports. Some of my best friends today are teammates I had from my soccer team when I was 5 years old. And then in 2019, the US Women's National Team won the World cup in Paris. And that victory came at a time when I was feeling pretty unmoored. I had left D.C. i was living in Philadelphia, and I just glommed onto that team. I was reading all their biographies. I was filling my parents in. I was filling my siblings in. I was like, you don't understand. I went to the parade in New York, the ticker tape parade, when they won the whole thing. And that day especially, I was like, I just want to live in this world forever. And particularly the dynamic between teammates, I think is really similar to the dynamic between sisters in that they drive you crazy, but they also drive you to be the best version of yourself.

[Danielle Robay]

I really like the title of the book, and it comes from a poem. Ada Limone's Dead Stars could you read me a part of the poem that really struck you, the part that made you want to name the book after it?

[Beck Dori Stein]

Sure. I don't know if it's a spoiler, but it's also the epigraph of the novel. Look, we are not unspectacular things. We've come this far, survived this much. What would happen if we decided to survive more, to love harder? And that's Ava Lemone's dead stars. So fun. Full circle. Thing is, I have a good friend, Nick Kiebert, who is a high school English teacher. And my first job out of college was teaching high school English and coaching soccer. And Nick Hebert was also an assistant coach for that soccer team, and that was over 10 years ago. We have remained in touch. He writes me letters all the time. He sent me that poem in one of his letters, and I kept it in my kitchen on display because I loved it so much. And then when we were wrestling with what to title this book, I just looked at it, and I was like, oh, it's literally been right in front of me this whole time.

[Danielle Robay]

I have this armchair theory that people sort of live into their names. And so if we think about that in books, I think titles are so important. And I was reading the poem thinking, okay, I have two theories, and I want to know if either of them are correct or if both of them are incorrect.

[Reese Witherspoon]

Okay.

[Danielle Robay]

My first theory was that the poem talks about the dualities of life, which you really cover in this book. My second theory is that it asks, I think, this philosophical question of, what if we are not just meant to ask the big questions, but to notice these small, spectacular things in our everyday lives?

[Beck Dori Stein]

I don't think you're wrong in any way, but I think the second theory is what I really have been trying to focus on, and that's also my job as a writer. Right. Is to notice these small things that we could easily pass by and the beauty and the mundane.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, it's true. And I think this book focuses our attention onto things that we all sort of experience but don't quite know how to put into words. So.

[Beck Dori Stein]

Yeah. And that's why soccer and sports in general make such great metaphors. Right. Because everything's just heightened. But it's the same idea. You know, you walk into these situations, and you feel like the pressure of the world is on your shoulders and what's gonna happen if you don't perform the way you want to.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Well, Beck, thank you so much, and huge congratulations to both you and Hank today. Thank you everyone. Go grab your copy of Spectacular Things. Amazing. Thank you, Beck.

[Beck Dori Stein]

Thank you.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, we'll be right back with Bea and Leah Koch of the Ripped Bodice Bookstores. Don't go anywhere this July 4th.

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[Danielle Robay]

Okay, dear listener, I want you to close your eyes for a moment. Imagine you're on the streets of New York in the brownstone dotted neighborhood of Park Slope. It's one of those places, perfect summer days. The sky is clear and blue and the possibilities feel endless. Suddenly, you're knocked off your feet. Literally. You've bumped into someone as they reach down to pick up the book they've dropped on the sidewalk. You notice it's the latest romance novel you've been dying to read and wow, is this person cute. Could this be fate? But then you look up at the storefront in front of you and oh my God, that storefront is pink. Unapologetically, unequivocally pink. And scrawled elegantly across the front is a name. The Ripped Bodice. A romantic bookstore. No, dear listener, this isn't a dream. The Ripped Bodice is a real bookstore, one of two, in fact, owned by sisters Bea and Leah Koch. The other, the original, is in Culver City, California, and when it opened in 2016, it was the only all romance bookstore in North America. Some people thought they were crazy to go all in on just romance, but Bea and Leah had their fingers on the pulse. And here's why. Despite sometimes being treated like a punchline, romance is the highest grossing genre in in the book industry. It brings in over a billion dollars in sales each year. And it's only growing. Print sales of romance books have doubled over the last few years when they've fallen across all other genres. And today There are over 50 romance bookstores in the U.S. but Bea and Leah are the OGs, okay? They built a business on loving out loud, literally and figuratively. Here's the vibe Taylor Swift plays in their stores. The shelves are organized by romance subgenre rather than alphabetically. And Bea and Leah were so successful that they were able to open a second location in New York in 2023. These sisters are rock stars in the book world. They're here to reclaim romance and give us the hottest wrecks of the summer. Duh. So whether you're a romance lover or you're just romance curious, you're in the right place. Let's turn the page with Bea and Leah Koch. Bea and Leah, welcome to the club.

[Bea Koch]

Thank you so much for having me. Thank you.

[Host]

We're so excited to be here.

[Danielle Robay]

We're really excited to have you because you two have gone from being sisters, which is already iconic. Sisters are great. To Kickstarter Queens. You crowdfunded nearly $100,000 for your bookstore. Then you became bartenders on Watch what Happens Live with Andy Cohen, highlight. And I just need to know, Bea, how did this happen? And does he shop at the store?

[Bea Koch]

We've never seen him in person in the store, but we have seen some producers, some other Bravo, behind the scenes type people, and that is how it happened.

[Host]

I believe I texted you. Are you sitting down?

[Bea Koch]

Yeah, no, she. She texted me. Are you driving?

[Host]

Good.

[Bea Koch]

Are you driving? Because she didn't want me to.

[Host]

I thought she was gonna get in a car accident. Parentheses. It's a good thing.

[Beck Dori Stein]

Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

Wait, B, you told me that you're a Bravo head. I love Bravo lebrities. Which shows do you watch?

[Bea Koch]

I'm embarrassed to say, but almost all of them. I'm. I'm a big wow. Housewives gal. The classic Atlanta, New Jersey. But I love SLC because we have some family in Utah. So I love their capturing of the Utah culture, the Valley. Wow.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, you're deep in this.

[Bea Koch]

I'm deep.

[Host]

What was the name of the woman that we met who was on before us with her son is the model for the covers?

[Bea Koch]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dolores Catania from New Jersey was on the Watch what Happens live episode. Before us, she was still in the green room. Could not have been sweeter. I was so nervous. I was shaking.

[Host]

I was like, I have no idea who this is.

[Bea Koch]

Yeah, Leah couldn't care less. She was like, you're gonna be great. And she was so excited when she found out we owned a romance novel bookstore. She was like, my son Frankie Jr. Is on the COVID of some romance novels. I was like, girl, I know. You don't have to tell me.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, so here's the thing about Watch what Happens Live that I always notice. This set is so cute, and. And Andy has books all over his set right now. I notice the Barbra Streisand book behind him all the time. What do you think Andy's romance book kink is?

[Bea Koch]

I mean, she's ready to go. No, no. I just like when I was thinking about Andy and, like, what book, romance novel he should read, literally. The perfect book recently came out. It's called the Charm Offensive by Alison Cochran. It is a gay romance about a reality TV producer. So, Andy, we'll get you a copy.

[Danielle Robay]

Everybody's making faces behind the scenes, by the way. Yeah, we're silent because it's too good.

[Bea Koch]

I mean, when I read it, I.

[Danielle Robay]

Was like, too perfect.

[Bea Koch]

This is, like, everything. And I have always wanted more like, crossover reality TV romance, because I just feel like there's a lot like reality TV is in the world of genre. I think in the same way that romance is, at least in my mind.

[Host]

There'S a lesbian romance about two women who are on the Bachelor and then fall in love with each other. It's called here for the wrong reasons. And it's two authors, Annabelle Paulson and Lydia Wang.

[Danielle Robay]

B. I want to go back to something you said. Reality TV is very genre the way romance is. And when you two opened the Ripped Bodice In Culver City, California, in 2016, you were the first only romance bookstore in North America.

[Bea Koch]

And.

[Danielle Robay]

And just the way that reality TV creates a community of fans around an obsession. That is what has happened with romance novels. What do you think it is about romance that makes it such a great community builder?

[Bea Koch]

I think because it's like the genre of feelings and, like, truly getting to the heart of what people care about when it comes to relationships. Not just romantic relationships, but. But one of the reasons I love romance is a lot of it is about family, relationships, friends, the community that the people exist in. And that's the exact same thing that happens on reality tv. And for reality TV fans, it's like you connect over this person you love on this show and you know all about, like, the dogs they have and their mom and all this, like, background information. Yeah, But I think fandom is such a beautiful thing. I think when you really love something, you really seek out other people who love it. And for romance novel fans, for so long, that was just online or in person book clubs, but there really weren't bookstores dedicated to the genre. And one of the things we really wanted to do especially was give people a place to celebrate new releases, because we were seeing all these other bookstores have these amazing events for all these books, and. But we didn't see a lot of events for romance novels, and we knew that the fans wanted to come to that event and celebrate the new release of their favorite author. We've even started doing midnight release parties for some authors, which is something we grew up on. And it's such a fun, amazing moment where the book comes out and everyone's there together. It just feels kind of magical.

[Danielle Robay]

I love that you've eventized all of this, because we do that for film. We do that, and you're both nodding your heads like, we do this for sports. We do it for so many things. And you guys have really done it for books. I saw this statistic that just made me smile. Romance readers are more likely to say they're hopeful about love than readers of other genres. If you had to guess, Leah, why do you think that is?

[Host]

It's the genre of hope. That's kind of the whole point of this. I mean, I do think maybe something people misunderstand about romance is, like, the connection people are drawing to their own lives. Like, you know, that everyone who reads romance is, like, you know, starved for romance in real life, which isn't always the case. But ultimately, so many romance novels. You could probably make an argument that every single romance novel is about hope. And I think that's what draws so many people to the genre. So that it doesn't surprise me at all.

[Bea Koch]

I think when you're reading these stories about people finding their partner or multiple partners or the life that they want, it just gives you that hope that you can find it, too. I mean, I was reading these romance novels forever, and people were always saying, oh, it's going to give you unrealistic expectations. I don't think it gave me unrealistic expectations. I think it made me think, what do I want and need in a partner and deserve in a partner? And how do I give that back to my partner? And I got married a Few years after we opened. And I feel like sometimes I'm just like, no, I waited for the right person, and romance novels helped me do that in some ways.

[Danielle Robay]

I love that you said that. Because sometimes I feel like I actually learn more from fictional characters. Totally. And then even, like, a nonfiction book.

[Bea Koch]

100%. I think, especially when writers are writing these, like, beautiful love scenes where people are saying to each other, I feel this way about you, or you make me feel this way. It gives us language to speak with our own partners. And it's not always like a sexual. That's, I think, another big misconception about the books. Oh, they're just, like, smutty, sexy. Like, it's all about the sex. And we like sex. Mutt. Great.

[Host]

No problem with that.

[Bea Koch]

We're a fan. Yeah, we have no problem with that. But there's also conversations about broader relationships and how you communicate with not just romantic partners, but family, friends, like, the world around you.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Host]

And fiction is, like a way for people to visualize themselves in. In different situations and. Yeah, I love that you said that. Cause I think fiction, sometimes people don't feel like they're, quote, learning something or whatever from.

[Bea Koch]

Yeah. It's not like we're like a fairy princess with, like, a vampire. Like, you know, it's not like it has to be a really realistic setting. They're still having these conversations about romance and love, and you can learn so much from it.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, I really do feel that way. I got so excited to learn that you both are from Chicago. I am, too. Really? And, yeah, we had this bookstore, Books on Vernon. That was my. And you're both nodding your heads. It was my sanctuary. They always had brownies and cookies. And I would go in after school and they would feed me, and I would just sit there for hours. My mom would have to come get me and be like, they're closing. We gotta go. But I know that there must be some great book stories that you grew up around that live in your heart and maybe even inspired Women and Children.

[Host]

First was our bookstore growing up in Chicago. And they have these fabulous hats. I recommend you buy one. That was our home bookstore.

[Bea Koch]

Yeah. I'm so glad you.

[Danielle Robay]

Are they still open?

[Bea Koch]

They are still open. I'm so glad you mentioned that, because I feel like that literally formed who we are, like, going to that bookstore because it's called Women and Children First. And as children, we went to a bookstore where everyone working there was so excited to recommend books to us and cared so much about what we cared about. And Our development as readers. And I just think that is such a beautiful thing.

[Host]

Yeah, they're still open. I went last time I was home.

[Bea Koch]

It makes us emotional.

[Host]

They still have a fabulous selection. Check them out if you're in Chicago.

[Danielle Robay]

First of all, thanks for giving them a shout out, because I feel like we need to shout out as many independent bookstores as possible. But when I was thinking about the two of you opening this bookstore and taking a bet on something that is so niche. New. Right. No one had ever done it in North America. Whose idea was this?

[Host]

Ooh, I don't.

[Bea Koch]

That's a. I feel like it came about so organically. We were having a conversation. I had just finished grad school, Leah was about to finish college, and I came to visit her in Los Angeles.

[Host]

We were in the car.

[Bea Koch]

I had. Yeah. We were driving to the airport. Literally. I had just finished grad school for historical fashion. So the history of fashion. Yeah. Really niche.

[Host]

And I was a year and a half away from graduating on my fourth major, Visual and performing arts studies. Terrifically useful.

[Beck Dori Stein]

Yeah.

[Bea Koch]

Leah had some trouble figuring out what she wanted to do, but I had always thought I wanted to be in academia. And I'd written my thesis on romance novels and the clothing in historical romance novels. Because I was fascinated by the idea that we call these novels bodice rippers. And I was like, I wonder how many bodices actually get ripped in romance novels. No, bodices are ripped.

[Host]

That would be almost physically impossible.

[Bea Koch]

They're really hard. There's a lot of boning in there. And it would be really difficult to actually rip it off. But also because what people are referencing is kind of an older part of the history of the genre from the 70s and 80s, which is a much more problematic. Honestly. Part of the romance history. There's a lot less consent than we see now and a lot more relationships based in weird power dynamics. Yeah. Unfortunate power dynamics that we would not see today. My thesis was titled Mending the Ripped Bodice. And when Lee and I were talking about what we wanted to do next in our lives, and we were driving to the airport, she was about to drop me off. We're like, oh, we both read so many romance novels. Why have we never. And we travel all the time searching for bookstores. We're like, why have we never been to a romance novel bookstore? We were like, googling it on the way to the airport. Sure.

[Host]

That there were dozens.

[Bea Koch]

Where there is a romance that we.

[Host]

Just didn't know about.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah.

[Bea Koch]

Where are they? Can we go on a Road trip and find one. And what we found was there was one in Australia, little far.

[Danielle Robay]

Can I ask you about the name, though, more in depth? Because bodice rippers was kind of a derogatory or at least problematic term. It seems to me like you're sort of reclaiming the word in 2025 and you're nodding.

[Bea Koch]

Yes, absolutely. I think what we were doing is saying, we know what you say about us, and we're gonna kind of rise from the ashes of this term that's been used as a pejorative, and instead, it's ours now. Claim it. You don't.

[Host]

It's not yours anymore. We took it back from you, and it's better now. Yeah, there were people who really didn't like it. I mean, like, quite aggressively, because I think they felt like, again, this had been a word. This had been a term that had been used to denigrate something that they loved. But I think.

[Bea Koch]

And I think there's. Well, there's lots of conversations even today about how romance readers and writers define themselves. Like, the word smut some people really don't like. Other people find it really fun. And we try and let people talk about the genre the way they want to and identify the way they want to. We. We try really hard not to police other people's language around this genre, because we all come. Come at it from different places. Yeah.

[Danielle Robay]

You opened the second store in 2023. That's so wild.

[Bea Koch]

Time is a flat circle.

[Danielle Robay]

I can imagine that, especially post Covid, a lot of people were saying, do not open brick and mortar stores. Did you have naysayers? Did you have people as you were not for this. The second one.

[Host]

For the first one, Mount legions, Mountains, Armies.

[Danielle Robay]

Who was saying no?

[Host]

Almost everybody. Many, let's speak frankly, men said, like, essentially, you're leaving money on the table by not selling other things, when, in fact, we would be so much less successful if we had done as they said. The point was to bring a level of expertise and focus and celebration of romance that does not exist even in a fantastic general bookstore with an amazing romance section. It's just not possible. They're. They got to do everything.

[Danielle Robay]

Did you know at the time that the romance genre brings over a billion dollars in sales? Was that a stat that you were slinging around?

[Bea Koch]

Yes. We kept telling people that, like, this is the bestselling genre. This is the genre that keeps the lights on for the rest of publishing. The fact that there isn't a bookstore for it. There's all these comic book stores. There's mystery bookstores. There were bookstores. There are other genre specific bookstores. There is a true underlying misogyny here that no one has thought to open a bookstore for the genre that is mostly read by women. I mean, we have tons of fabulous male and all gender clients, but it really is written a lot and read a lot by women.

[Danielle Robay]

My college girlfriend who is like, I think kind of like my most fem, like critical feminist thought friend, we all have one. She yes. And she was watching the super bowl and she texted me last year and she goes, oh my God. Next year during this time in February, I want every man in America to have to watch a YouTube makeup tutorial for an hour and change and eat snacks and see how this goes. Because like the reverse idea that we're all supposed to watch football just feels crazy. And I bring that up to say that I do think in culture in the past there's been this like people trivialize women's hobbies, things that women find interesting. And so romance seems like it's a part of that to me. But I'm wondering if you think romance is a feminist genre.

[Bea Koch]

Yes.

[Host]

No.

[Bea Koch]

Why do you say no?

[Host]

Romance novels can be written by feminists. A huge portion of them are, but it's not inherently feminist. You have friggin people who absolutely don't believe in their own equal rights writing romance novels.

[Bea Koch]

Sure, I think that's true. I think in general one of the big misconceptions of romance is it's really heterosexual. It's really about like a woman finding a man to marry. And that has really been turned on its head by so many authors over the years. And it feels like now so many popular romance novels that are published have nothing to do with like I must get married.

[Host]

I'm also a really literal person. Feminism is a social and political movement. It is an actual thing. And so there's almost nothing that's like inherently feminist. Even like, like nothing. You have to make an active choice to believe in equality based on gender, sex, whatever. So a vast, vast, vast. Probably almost all of the romance authors that we carry, I think would absolutely consider them and them and their work feminist. There are large swaths of the romance genre that don't believe that women should have equal rights, that gay people should have equal rights. You'll mostly find them.

[Bea Koch]

That is an important point. Like we talk about romance as if it's a monologue, but that is not true. There are so many different parts of it and so many different people reading it and getting different things out of it. We are a feminist bookstore. We try and carry romance novels that have feminist messages and it's because we.

[Host]

Make active choices and do active things. It's not just because we're women.

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[Beck Dori Stein]

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[Bea Koch]

Like, why even bother saying that?

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[Bea Koch]

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[Leah Koch]

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[Danielle Robay]

If we were doing an MTV Cribs tour of the bookstore, what would we see when we walk through the doors? What's the vibe? What's the aesthetic? What's the wow moment?

[Host]

Well, first you would see me opening the door, saying, hi, welcome to my crib. But I love designing the spaces. It's been the most fun part of this for me, especially Brooklyn, just because I had learned so much from la. I like that you asked, what's the wow moment? I mean, I hope the wow moment is kind of when you open the door. Like, I like to use books as objects, as art. They are misprints or somebody's dog chewed on it or something like that. But, like, sometimes they'll send us 50 books that are missing, like page 31, and they just tell us to throw them out, but instead I screw them to the wall. I think we. We really, we. We love to celebrate the feminine. I think we like to celebrate the aesthetic in general. Like, sort of speaking of things that, you know, sometimes people don't necessarily take.

[Bea Koch]

Seriously, I think one of the things we were really focused on is, like, making them light and bright and inviting rather than kind of like a dark attic where things are hidden away.

[Danielle Robay]

I have a controversial question. Rainbow bookshelves, yay or nay?

[Reese Witherspoon]

Yay.

[Bea Koch]

Leah has a. Leah likes it.

[Host]

If that makes you happy, go nuts.

[Bea Koch]

Yes. I think display your books however you want. To me, it doesn't make sense to my brain because I'm like, the books don't have anything to do with each other.

[Danielle Robay]

You organize by sub genre in the store.

[Bea Koch]

Yes. Which is another reason we were like, we just want to be romance because there's so many specific sub genres. And when we opened, we. We really tried to make the areas where the subgenres were fit aesthetically. So we used to have, like, this paranormal forest in the back of our store with, like, literal trees. Yeah.

[Host]

And just. I mean, it all comes back to fun. Like, romance is supposed to be fun. I'm thrilled when people find meaning in it or, you know, somebody tackles difficult subject matter that resonates with someone. At the end of the day, it is primarily, at least for me, about fun. And so I. I want the space to reflect that. I want it. I want it to feel. You know, I think we're Always striking the balance. Like, we take romance seriously. We don't take ourselves too seriously. You know, it's. It's meant to be fun.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay. I want to cosplay. I walk into the store. Okay. And I get really lucky. Both of you happen to be there. Okay. It's a good day. And I let you know that my genre, what I like, even though I haven't started in on the romance genre yet, but what I think I like from reading other books is sort of like a nuanced take meaning, like another narrator. So, like, I like Sleeping Beauty, but from maleficence point of view. Or Little Mermaid, but from Ursula.

[Host]

That's so interesting. I love that. Okay. And do you have any preferences? Contemporary, historical, paranormal? Are you open?

[Danielle Robay]

I don't know if paranormals.

[Host]

For me.

[Danielle Robay]

I think we'll X that out.

[Host]

Fair enough.

[Danielle Robay]

But I love historical and contemporary.

[Bea Koch]

I feel like a historical series you would like is the Tessa Dare Spinster Spindle Cove. They call it Spinster Cove because a lot of what it does is take a heroine who. It's like, from a different perspective, often of the regular heroine you would expect. And each book kind of turns a trope on its head.

[Danielle Robay]

I love that.

[Bea Koch]

They're very fun.

[Host]

Okay. The view was exhausting. I keep picking books that have two authors, Mikayla Clements and Anjuli Datta. It's a contemporary, and it's very much. I don't know if this is exactly what you're talking about, but because it's what's called dual pov, meaning you hear from, in this case, the woman. You hear from the man. Whatever you think you know what's going on from one character's perspective, then you switch to the other and you're like, oh, they don't actually don't understand at all. It's not enemies to lovers, but it's sort of like we don't really understand each other to lovers. And it's great.

[Bea Koch]

Wait, I have another one, too.

[Danielle Robay]

Bring them all. Give them to me.

[Host]

So Katie Robert, who's one of the best erotica writers out there, has a whole series about Disney villains.

[Danielle Robay]

Wait, I love this.

[Host]

Copyright. Whatever. Don't sue her. Disney, you know, she. They're. She's changed them. But the first one is Jasmine and Jafar.

[Bea Koch]

Yeah, they're.

[Host]

And there's like an Ursula one there, and they are very smutty. Just fair warning, they're erotica. They're very, very smutty. But they're so good. She's such a great writer. She's so Creative. And they're so fun. The first one is called Desperate Measures. Katie Robert.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, I like everything that you have offered me today, but. But I'm so glad we landed there because I love a Disney villain. Also, there's this author, Peggy Ornstein, who does a lot of writing on, on women and gender and feminism. And she said that if you look at any T shirt with Disney princesses on them, they're never looking at each other. And it's very interesting. And she, she always, like, makes this joke, like, if you met a dis. If a Disney princess. If Snow White met Cinderella in the bathroom, don't you think that she would give her a tampon? Why would they not be looking at each other on the T shirt?

[Bea Koch]

Yes. And, like, female friendship, I feel like, because they're in, like, separate worlds. They, like, keep them separate. Okay, I have one more recommendation because I feel like you would like Kirtana Ramasetti's book the Other Letta, which is. It's a really fascinating romance because, honestly, the heroine is not. She steals someone. Someone's identity.

[Danielle Robay]

Ooh, I love a stolen identity. So she's getting these.

[Bea Koch]

Yeah, she's getting these emails that are, like, inviting her to all these amazing things in New York, and it's for another person who has her name. And she decides, like, fuck it, I'm gonna go to these things. I'm being invited. But then the woman who she's impersonating, like, binds out and, and it, it's just this fascinating, like, kind of morally gray, like, heroine. And it's a fantastic written. I, I love it.

[Danielle Robay]

So now I'm getting stressed out because this thing happens sometimes when I go into a bookstore or a library and I look around at the shelves and I'm like, there's so much to read and I know nothing. Like, I have so much knowledge to take in. I'm gonna walk into the rip bodice and feel like I have. I, I have so much to.

[Host]

Approximately once a week, I, I, I'm somewhere and I just go, I'm not gonna have time to read all the books I wanna read before I die. All the books.

[Bea Koch]

You people have, like, emotional reactions to books. If you see a cover that you, like, pick it up, like, it's worth going with your gut, I think, a little bit.

[Danielle Robay]

In romance, are you saying to judge a book by its cover?

[Bea Koch]

Yeah.

[Host]

Yes.

[Danielle Robay]

Oh, absolutely.

[Bea Koch]

And I think also, don't, you know, look at the back cover, look inside, like, there's plenty else be the COVID But if the COVID speaks to you. That's totally legit.

[Host]

Absolutely.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, we're gonna do a little speed read. I'm gonna put 60 seconds on the clock.

[Host]

I'm ready.

[Danielle Robay]

And ask you both. Actually, maybe we're gonna double it. We're gonna put 120 seconds on the clock because there's two of you. So I'm gonna ask a question, and each of you answer, and then we'll move to the next one. Does that make sense?

[Host]

Who. Who goes first?

[Danielle Robay]

You guys, who was born first?

[Host]

Okay, B. And me.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah, the older sister goes first, and I'm the older sister. So let's just have a guess time with me.

[Bea Koch]

Love it.

[Danielle Robay]

Ready? Set. B, what's one romance trope you would ban forever?

[Bea Koch]

Oh, my God, that's so hard. I feel like they all have a place and people like different ones. I mean, Leah and I both. I'm not. We're not like, the biggest secret baby fans.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, Leah, what's one you'll defend with your life?

[Host]

Friends to lovers.

[Danielle Robay]

Bea, what's a romance book you wish you had written?

[Bea Koch]

Oh, my God, there's so many. I mean, Beverly Jenkins, like, to me, is the queen of historical romance and research. She just finds the fast.

[Host]

She's supposed to be fast.

[Bea Koch]

She literally goes into archives and finds the. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Beverly Jenkins. Anything by.

[Danielle Robay]

Thank you, Leah. Leah, Best romance book for a breakup.

[Host]

When I think of you. Wait, no, that's a different one. Evie Drake starts Over by Linda Holmes.

[Danielle Robay]

Great call. Okay, favorite romance book to recommend.

[Host]

Sierra Simone. Anything by her, but probably Sinner because it scandalizes people.

[Danielle Robay]

Yeah. Okay. The best romance audiobook experience.

[Host]

I did ask my booksellers, Lex and Fernanda, and they recommended Kara Bastone's audiobooks. They said she has really great cast. They're all set in New York, which is really fun.

[Bea Koch]

So also anything narrated by Julia Whelan.

[Host]

She also writes, but that's a great one. She does write her own books, but. Oh, she's so good. Yeah, that's a great one.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, Leah, favorite queer love story.

[Host]

There are 1 million. But right now, I would choose Everyone I Kissed since youe Got Famous by May Marvel.

[Danielle Robay]

That's so good. Okay. The best reimagining of a classic.

[Beck Dori Stein]

Oh, my God.

[Host]

What would you say Pride Prejudice and Other Flavors by Sonali Dev. Oh, my God. That is literally the. There's a whole series.

[Bea Koch]

Oh. Also. Oh, my God. Tears of Price.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Bea Koch]

Those are so good. They're so good.

[Host]

Pride and premeditation.

[Danielle Robay]

Okay, honestly, B, you redeemed yourself at the end. An ending that you hated Leah, Anna Karenina.

[Host]

I know. It could have been if there was not a train involved.

[Bea Koch]

This is hilarious.

[Danielle Robay]

Well, sisters, if you're ever looking for a third sister, I'd like to be considered. You are two.

[Host]

Have you. We actually have a sister in law and two stepsisters. So we just keep adding.

[Bea Koch]

We're always adding to our sister crew.

[Danielle Robay]

I'll. I'll be added to the friend sister category. Okay. So here at Bookmarked, we like to close each episode by sharing something. Something literary that we bookmarked. It can be a favorite line in a poem, a new initiative. What have you bookmarked this week?

[Host]

A new adaptation of a book by Alpha Burke called the Better Sister is now available on Amazon prime. And it happened to have been written and created by our sister in law, Olivia Milch. Jessica Biel and Elizabeth Banks are sisters. It's so great. It's eight episodes. Watch it in a weekend. And it's based on a book and the book is great. Is that what you were going to say?

[Bea Koch]

No, you are a better sister in law than I. I was going to say the better sister. Katie Storino wrote a romance novel called Sunny side Up and it's about a heroine who designs plus size swimwear. And then she and Kitty and Vibe, which is a swimwear brand, like, collaborated and they made like, the swimwear that. That's like in the. I ordered it. I was like, I need it. That sounds so cute. It's like I got like a bikini that has, like, tomatoes on it. I'm so excited. And I just think that's. I just love when people are, like, creative in their marketing of romance and like, I just, I loved everything about it.

[Danielle Robay]

That's so cool. I love that. Great answers. One of you wins Better Sister, but the other one had a really great recommendation.

[Host]

Yours was a little more organic than mine.

[Bea Koch]

I was like, oh, my God, that's the perfect thing.

[Host]

Yeah, I had no idea. That's so.

[Bea Koch]

I love that.

[Host]

Love that. It's so cute.

[Bea Koch]

Yeah. Everything about it. Amazing.

[Danielle Robay]

I love your passion and fervor for books. Thank you both so much for what you're doing putting into the world.

[Bea Koch]

Oh, thank you, thank you, thank you for having me.

[Host]

People are great.

[Danielle Robay]

And that's a wrap. If you want a little bit more from us, come hang with us on socials. We're at Reese's Book Club on Instagram serving up books, vibes, and behind the scenes magic. And I'm Danielle Robay. R O B A Y. Come say hi. And DM me. And if you want to go 90s on us, call us. Okay, Our phone line is open, so call now at 1-501-291-3379. That's 1-501291-3379. Share your literary hot takes, book recommendations, questions about the monthly pick or let us know what you think about the episode you just heard. And who knows, you might just hear yourself in our next episode. So don't be shy, get give us a ring and of course, make sure to follow Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your shows. Until then, see you in the next chapter. Bookmarked is a production of hello Sunshine and iheart Podcast. It's executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and me, Danielle Robaix. Production is by Acast Creative Studios. Our producers are Maddie Fox Foley, Aaliyah Yates, Brittany Martinez and Darby Masters. Our production assistant is Avery Loftus. Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rutter are the executive producers for Acast Creative Studios. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon are the executive producers for hello Sunshine. Olga Kaminwa, Kristin Perla, Kelly Turner and Ashley Rapoport are associate producers for Reese's Book Club. Ali Perry and Christina Everett are the the executive producers for iHeart podcast and Tim Palazzola is our showrunner.

[Reese Witherspoon]

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[Nick Kiebert]

You're great at protecting your own personal information. You probably even use things like two factor authentication, strong passwords and a vpn. But as much as you try to be in control of how your information is protected, there are lots of places that also have it and they might not be as careful as you are. That's why Lifelock monitors millions of data points every second for identity threats. If your identity is stolen, a LifeLock US based restoration specialist will help solve identity theft issues on your behalf, guaranteed or your money back. Plus, all LifeLock plans are backed by the million dollar protection package, meaning Lifelock will reimburse you up to the limits of your plan if you lose money due to identity theft. You might not be able to control how others handle your personal information, but you can help protect it with Lifelock. Save up to 40% your first year. Call 1-800-LIFELOCK and use promo code iheart or go to lifelock.com iheart for 40% off. Terms apply. If you work as a manufacturing facilities.

[Bea Koch]

Engineer, installing a new piece of equipment can be as complex as the machinery itself. From prep work to alignment and testing, it's your team's job to put it all together. That's why it's good to have Grainger on your side. With industrial grade products and next day delivery, Grainger helps ensure you have everything.

[Nick Kiebert]

You need close at hand through every step of the installation.

[Bea Koch]

Call 1-800-GRAINGER Click grainger.com or just stop by Granger for the ones who get it done. This is an iHeart podcast.