← Books With Your Besties
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- [00:01]
Ashley
Hey, besties, it's Ashley. This week we are talking to Ashley Winstead, who will be at our 2026 retreat trigger warning. We do talk a lot about grief in this episode as we both lost our fathers. Please make sure you have read this book Will Bury Me. Because this episode is full of spoilers and spoiler alert. We became immediate friends and just jumped right into conversation. So as this episode starts, we are just chit chatting. Let's go. Hi, I'm Emily. I'm Ashley. And this is Books with youh Besties that out well.
- [00:35]
Emily
And also, like, I'm an open book. Ask me anything. You know, I'm. Yeah. Very, very open. And what a day to be talking.
- [00:46]
Ashley
I know. Don't say anything yet. That's one of my questions.
- [00:49]
Emily
Okay.
- [00:49]
Ashley
Okay. I'm gonna do just a little quick intro even though everybody knows who you are, and then we can officially kick it off.
- [00:56]
Emily
I can love it.
- [00:57]
Ashley
All right, besties, today we have Ashley Winstead. We know she is the national best selling author of this book, Will Bury Me. Midnight Is the Darkest Hour, the Last Housewife. In My Dreams, I Hold a Knife, the Boyfriend Candidate and Fool Me Once, among others. Her books have been Library Read Picks, Lone Star Picks, Best of Amazon Picks, Best of Apple Book Picks. I'm going to get tired of just reading all your accolades and we are lucky enough to get to talk with her today and we are going to focus on mainly on this book, Will Bury Me. If you have not read it, stop, go read it, come back. Because this is a full spoiler episode. I want to get into all of the things. So if you haven't read it, stop listening. But the timing of this is nuts. So yesterday, I just want to get your feedback, Ashley, on what you thought when Bryan Coburger said, I'm going to just plead guilty.
- [01:45]
Emily
Oh, my God. First of all, like, I. The way that I was texted, emailed, DM'd, like the. From everyone in my life, family members, friends, readers, just being like, holy shit. I. It took me. I'm. I'm kind of in shock. Well, not kind of. I'm fully in shock. I did not expect it. You know, trial was supposed to start what, August 18th. So we're like getting really close to it. And right at this point, I'm still on like a. Like just reading everything I can. Mostly reading about the family reactions to the plea deal. And I'm really of two minds because on the one hand, I am not someone who personally believes that the death penalty is just. I don't believe in the death penalty. So, you know, that's. But that's my personal belief. Right. And so for me, getting, like, admitting guilt, getting life in prison without the possibility of parole, to me is like the greatest possible punishment. However, like, I'm reading and listening to the victim's face. Families and their feeling. I know there were particular families that were really pushing for the death penalty in this case. And from what I'm reading, it looks like that threat was so serious and was felt to be such a. Like a serious possibility by Bryan Kohberger and his team of defense lawyers that that's pretty much what pushed him. Again, this is like, all speculation from the outside looking in, but so I know that the family members, from everything that I'm reading, feel robbed of justice. And that's sitting really heavily with me. I don't know. What do you think?
- [03:57]
Ashley
I. Same feedback. We did a call last night about a different book, and we have a couple attorneys in our book club. And sometimes I just like to ask them if they know how some of these things work, because I thought it's. It's great that there is some form of closure that he is saying, yes, this was me. But also, will there be a chance before sentencing, or is it part of the plea deal that they don't get to make victim impact statements? Because I just think it's only fair. And that feels like such a trite word, but for the family members of these victims to get to say something to his face, I. I hope that there's. And I don't know how that works.
- [04:37]
Emily
I know. And I. I don't know if you've, like, gotten a chance to read the prosecutor's letter to the victim's families where they were kind of like, explaining their reasoning behind seeking and wanting to accept this plea offer. And it was really jarring to read that they were like, you know, we. We are sincerely doing this, you know, in our sincere effort to get justice for your families and to spare your from having to go through trial and open these wounds and to read that in the letter and then have statements from the families saying, we actually wanted this experience, like, we wanted to do this. You're not sparing us something. You're, like, robbing us of something. So. And I know a lot of comments from readers and others have been really gutted that, you know, the evidence isn't a lot of evidence that people were waiting to see, expecting to come out in the trial. Like, things around surrounding motive and a lot of the missing pieces, you know, There's a lot of questions about whether that's ever going to, you know, be, be public knowledge.
- [05:56]
Ashley
So it's just wild. Also the, and we can talk about this later, but the amount of media and attention that has been on all of this and now it just seems like this really harsh. Okay, it's. It's done. And not that anybody, not that we deserve any more information, it's just the general public. But it does feel like there are going to be so many more questions than answers with this particular way of moving forward.
- [06:25]
Emily
I know. It just, I feel like that is the theme of this case in so many ways is like this withholding of information, this public speculation, filling in for gaps, you know, in public, in public knowledge, perceived gaps, you know, and then running amok in the results in the resulting, like, confusion. And here it continues. And so just going to be watching closely to see what, what happens next.
- [06:57]
Ashley
I guess one of the things that just drives Emily, the. My co host and the other founder of Creepy Book Club, she has her PhD in psychology. And one of the things that just drives her bonkers is when people say, like, I wouldn't have done that or here's how I would have reacted. So she's like, in this, in this particular case, it's like, you can't say how you would have reacted if you were in that house. You have no idea what you would have done. And how dare you say that people should have done more. Anyway, whole topic.
- [07:29]
Emily
No. And it's. But it's such an important one. And like, honestly, questions like that and my own gut reactions and having to check myself are the starts and the impetus for so many of my, like, book ideas is, is, you know, either me behaving some way or thinking I would behave some way and then trying to put a check on myself and do some introspection around that.
- [07:56]
Ashley
So we did an episode on. Now we're totally going off tangents and then. I'll promise the questions.
- [08:02]
Emily
No, I love tangents.
- [08:03]
Ashley
We did an episode on books with your besties about the woman who was drug out of the town hall and.
- [08:09]
Emily
Oh yeah, in Idaho too. Right?
- [08:11]
Ashley
Yeah. And you know, Emily and I have been best friends for 25 years. And the day it happened, I was like, I can't believe nobody helped her. And Emily was like, you can't. And she's like, um, no, we need to get into this. And we did an entire episode about what you think you would do, but what you actually might do and what right and wrong heavy quotes around those might look like in those scenarios.
- [08:33]
Emily
Oh, yeah. I mean, like, just. This is, again, going a little bit off topic, but, like, the Last Housewife, which is my second thriller that I wrote, really, in a lot of ways, started with me reading and consuming so many stories about women in, like, the Nexium culture, the. The Larry Ray case, the Sarah Lawrence sex cult, and thinking to myself, how do these women get themselves in these situations in 20, you know, like, the 21st century, you know, we all should, quote, unquote, know better. And there's so much handing over of agency, and it's so, like, you know, kind of. It's deeply misogynistic and coated with patriarchy. And I'm like, I could never. And of course, the minute you say that to yourself as a, you know, as a, like, introspective person, you have to be like, o, actually slow. You stop, drop and roll. Like, go. Go back to the beginning. So that's where that came from. And obviously, to get us back on track, this book Will Bury Me started, you know, after I did a lot of soul searching about why I was so obsessed with the Idaho murder case.
- [09:47]
Ashley
So if this is too personal, you don't need to answer it. And I understand. I lost my dad in May 2023.
- [09:54]
Emily
Oh, I'm so sorry.
- [09:55]
Ashley
And I know you also lost your. Your dad, and that was a piece of this. Would you mind just telling me a little bit about your dad and kind of just about your dad? Nobody. Nobody asks anymore. So tell me about your dad.
- [10:09]
Emily
That is such a lovely question. And I think. Yeah, it is. It's kind of a. You probably know this too. It is kind of a misconception. I think people who love, you know, you'. You don't want to go there, don't want to talk about it, you know, because they assume that it will be really painful. And not to say it isn't, but you're right. The opportunity to speak about someone you've lost is, like, the greatest opportunity. And hell, I wrote a whole book about it. So I've put it out there, you know, like, I'm. This is up for public consumption. But, yeah, my dad. I am both like a daddy's girl and a mommy's girl. I was so, so close to my parents. They had me when they were 22. And I feel like if you' read this book Will Bury Me, you probably know a lot about my dad. Because as much as I hewed closely to the University of Idaho case in the book, I hewed incredibly closely to the case of my father, I guess I would call it, like, how my father passed away and why and who he was and so kind of trying to immortalize him, which is problematic for reasons the book goes into. But, yeah, I did it anyway. And, yeah, he was this, like, incredibly gentle teddy bear who was in Farmer boy in the. In the Navy. And unlike Jane, I'm the first of four kids, so we were a big family who moved around every two years from. From town to town as he got, like, reassigned in the Navy. And we're just like. People called us the Brady Bunch growing up. And so when I lost him In August of 2022, a few days before the Last Housewife came out, it was a complete shock, completely unexpected. And it's the first death in our family. And so it just absolutely rocked me and just left me with so much grief. Malaise, which is a term a librarian used that I've stolen. And out of that grief malai, for the first time, I started tracking true crime with this, like, unhealthy obsession, I would say. And that's where this book Will Bury Me was born.
- [12:31]
Ashley
Well, he sounds lovely, and I'm so sorry. Grief is such a wild, unexpected journey. And I think Emily put it best when I once said to her something like, do you think I'll ever feel, you know, like my. Like, myself again? And she said, no. She's like. Because you're not. You're like. You're learning how to be a new person without him. The person before him was one person, and now you're a new person. And I just thought that was beautiful that you get to have these two different experiences and figure out how to just, you know, move on without a person that you just loved so much.
- [13:10]
Emily
That is so beautiful and rings so true before and after.
- [13:15]
Ashley
Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about. Because I want to know how deep you went into the world, because Emily and I have gone pretty deep into the world of Internet sleuthing.
- [13:24]
Emily
Yeah.
- [13:25]
Ashley
And the kind of research around that. And have you seen Don't Fuck with Cats?
- [13:31]
Emily
I have. Yes.
- [13:33]
Ashley
Okay.
- [13:33]
Emily
Oh, my God.
- [13:34]
Ashley
Because there are. There are times when Internet sleuthing does produce results, and I think this book Will Bury Me walked such a fine line of, like, when is it not okay? When is it helping? So just talk. Just talk about how you did the whole Internet sleuthing piece of your book.
- [13:54]
Emily
Yeah, no, I. So I. And for anyone who, like, is expecting me to have a settled answer after having written that whole book about what I think about it. Sorry. To disappoint you. But spoiler alert, I'm still living in the gray area because, like I mentioned, following the. The death of my father, I had, you know, I couldn't sleep and I had the. The temporary insomnia. And what I. I think it was this perfect storm where the news broke in particular about the University of Idaho murder case. And it just grabbed me by the throat. I was horrified. I wanted like. Like the rest of the world, I really wanted to know, you know, what. What was going on. And so it was with this. That was my entry way into amateur sleuthing and what I would call it. I wasn't the one doing the sleuthing. I was the lurker. I was like, in the forums, I went as deep as you could probably go. Like, I consumed every single thing I could. I remember, like, coming to one night at like 3:40am realizing that I'd been watching like an hour and 40 minutes of a YouTube video of somewhat a sleuth, like reconstructing with computer animation one of the paths that the killer in this case could have taken. And I was like, you know, with like stick figure victims. And I was like, what am I doing? You know, like, oh, my God. But I was just so hungry for this knowledge. And I was. I was finding something. As weird as this sounds, I was finding something so soothing about watching people test theories and have these conversations. And it wasn't until months later when I was, you know, around a group of librarians and writers who were talking about true crime and what the hell's the deal with p. All these youths and their obsession with true crime, which is a misconception, by the way. People of all. All ages are. Are really into true crime. But just talking about that, that it like, really hit me, like, what the hell's my deal with true crime? And that's when I started to put together lost my father, spinning out in grief, lots of unanswered questions about why he had to die and if we could have prevented it. You know, questions I'll never get answered. And the strange fascination I developed with watching people try to answer questions in another tragedy. And I was like, oh, these things might have something to do with one another. And that's where it all started. And so once I thought that I would write a book about how grief makes a detective of us all and like, the human compulsion to know. Then I started doing my formal research into true crime, right where I was like, okay, well, then I'll start reading or watching, you know, don't fuck with cats and like all the documentaries and I'll read all the books about how sleuths do this work and so on. So then it was like, you know, me in it doing like amateur research as a lurker and then me doing my like formal book writer research. I went deep. Is a, is my long winded way.
- [17:29]
Ashley
Of saying that we did an episode on Kyron Horman, who's the young boy that went missing community and went pretty deep in the world of Reddit and theories and Internet sleuths. And we did use some of it not as reporting. We said, you know, this is, there's, we don't know if this happened, this is not a fact. But there's enough information here that it felt important to share because there are these Internet sleuth campaigns or these people working together on TikTok, like in the Gabby Petito case, you know, a woman's like, I saw that van.
- [18:03]
Emily
Like, I mean, that's another success story for amateur sleuths. Right? Like that crowdsourcing her location.
- [18:10]
Ashley
Yeah. So it's hard to just like you, we live in the, we live in the gray zone of like, there's a point where it goes too far and we don't want to hurt people with information, but there's a point where when communities really start to work together, they can have an impact.
- [18:24]
Emily
Well, and I don't, this is me probably with too much of like my academic hat on, but I don't necessarily think that the role of a, of an author is to write like a thesis driven book. Like part of, you know, to come kind of come out and say like, well, I have this very strong opinion. Here's my settled answer and here's, here's a book that I've written to kind of service my opinion. What I like doing in my fiction is the same thing I did when I was in academia was to just like be an anthropologist almost of subcultures. And, and I think the true crime, the amateur sleuth subcultures are fascinating ones. And all of the little camps like the TikTok girlies, the Reddit, you know, like the Reddit camps, just all of that, the way that they all talk to each other and exist in this ecosystem, I think that that's just fascinating to paint that picture and let readers kind of think and feel what they're going to think and feel.
- [19:35]
Ashley
Correct me if I'm wrong because as we're talking about, the Internet can get quotes wrong. But I did read something where you said that you're drawn to stories about how women try to make meaning in a world that's pretty broken.
- [19:50]
Emily
Yeah.
- [19:51]
Ashley
So can you just talk a little bit about Jane in this book and how she approached the world, especially after losing her dad?
- [19:59]
Emily
Yeah. So that, that is like such a. Thank you for that question because the entire book is about Jane, who, you know, is standing in more than any other character I've ever written, kind of as an avatar for myself. Like, I've been very open about that. This is as close to autofiction as I will probably ever get. But her falling into the rabbit hole of true crime from the beginning happens because she feels bereft of meaning and coherence and understanding about why her dad died. And she's been left adrift in her life after he unexpectedly passes away. And that's no spoiler that happens in the first pages of the book. You know, it's the premise for the book. It's how it opens and, and the fact that all of these amateur sleuths she discovers are making meaning, coming, finding answers, stringing together story and narrative around mysteries that to her is like this thing that she craves in her own life. And so she kind of gets it secondhand as she starts to dive deeper and deeper. But to take a step back and be even more meta about it. The book is written as Jane's tell all memoir. And the reason I wanted to write it that way is because I think writing books, especially books like memoirs and biographies and autobiographies, like, what are you doing? You're taking the raw material of a life, your own or your. Someone else's, and making meaning out of it, you know, taking all the messiness of life and creating a narrative and showing people like, oh, here's how this all hangs together. Here's motive, here's why I, you know, was motivated to do X, Y, Z, or here's why I ended up where I am. And it's supplying in a retrospective way, like re. Reason and meaning. And I just think that that's both a beautiful thing that we all try to do for our own life because, like, life is messy. You don't always know why you're making the choices. You do. Certainly you don't know why other people are doing it. You know, that that barrier that you have for other people's brains. And so the act of writing stories, the act of memoirs, you know, biography. And what Jane is doing, ultimately, we said this is spoilers. So what she's ultimately trying to do is like construct a legacy for her father by telling this story and connecting her dad to it as the reason she got to where she did in this very controversial decision making that she is confessing to. Like, all of that, that's a fabrication. You know, that's just like her deciding these things are connected and out of these connections is like meaning for my life and my dad's life. So I guess where I'm going with this is just like the whole entire book is about that. Very vulnerable, beautiful, yet I think, you know, very human desire for there to be meaning where there isn't maybe any, or where it's hard to see it and to construct all of that. And it's a double edged sword, right, because you see the amateur sleuths creating all this meaning that's not true. You know, like connecting dots in their sleuthing and getting things epically wrong and screwing up people's lives over it. And yet Jane is compelled to do the exact same thing. And I would argue we all are. No matter how many examples we see of it going poorly, we're just gonna. It's just so human to try to construct that narrative.
- [24:16]
Ashley
It really felt like her desperation for answers was such a through line throughout the book that finding the answers to this serial killer, these crimes, even going as so far as to go into the home of the mother and, and also trying to, to figure out why did my dad not take these steps to take care of himself? What could we have done that. The desperation to find some sort of answer was kind of her ultimate search. And there, I don't think there really was going to be any closure for her. At the end of the book, I didn't feel like I couldn't tell. Is she healed? Is she more hardened or is she still just like in the world?
- [24:57]
Emily
Yeah. And I, I think the, the answer that maybe you and readers won't like is that I, for me, it's. It's that ladder, it's that there's. There's no closure. And my question, I was so interested in writing this book is what do you do when you've worked so hard to find answers and the world, the universe resists you, you are just not going to know. How do you make peace with uncertainty? And that is, I think, one of the hardest things we have to deal with as human beings.
- [25:38]
Ashley
Just two things. Personally, I felt like you, Jack. I say I felt like. Like you need me to say you did a good job at this, Ashley.
- [25:45]
Emily
But no, I love it. Thank you.
- [25:46]
Ashley
As someone lost who has lost my dad, that felt so relatable was just. And this isn't. This is not comic relief to anyone who hasn't lost their father or mother, but to someone who has, it did feel like a. A hint of comic relief when she just kind of had his ashes, because I have my dad's, and she's just like, I don't know. There's. On my desk. They're just here. You don't really know what to do with them. And I don't know. That was extremely relatable.
- [26:13]
Emily
Thank you. I. I actually got some pushback from my editor around that. She was like, oh, do we need to go there? Do we need to talk about that? And I'm like, this is. This is. So I really did feel very strongly that I wanted to a confront the body horror of like, of death, you know, and like, there are things that people who haven't experienced the death of a close loved one maybe don't know, which is that death involves a lot of effing paperwork. You know, that that's like a huge thing that it is very awkward to get. Awkward being an understatement. A bag of ashes tied with a zip tie. Like, and that's the person that you love to reduce. Like, that is. There's something absurdly darkly, like, talk about gallows humor. And like, then what do you do with this? And, you know. Yeah. So I really appreciate you saying that because that was like a big. That was a big thing to be. And I was also using Jane to kind of illustrate the way I went from being like, absolutely horrified by my father's ashes, which I also have to, like, deeply attached to them. And like, you know, it's just. Yeah. Grief things. I don't know. Hashtag weird grief things.
- [27:37]
Ashley
You know, just a couple more questions and then I'll let you go. But did you. I don't think fun is the right word, but Citizen.
- [27:46]
Emily
Yeah.
- [27:47]
Ashley
There's like a moral grayness to him that does make him a pretty fun character to read.
- [27:53]
Emily
Yeah.
- [27:54]
Ashley
Seemed not obvious, but at one point you're like, okay, he's involved somehow. So now I'm really going to dive more into, like, who is this guy? So can you just talk about writing Citizen? Because I feel like there had to be something there.
- [28:06]
Emily
Yeah. No, I. So one of the things that made me laugh a lot after I released the book was one of my good girlfriends, like, sent me a message and she was like, girl, the minute I started reading Citizen was hot. And you, like, fan casted him as Harris Dickinson. I knew he was the killer. Because she was like, what you do. The Ashley Winstead thing is the. The hot guys, like, the hot ones you're not supposed to have, are always the killer. And that. That made me take, like, a hard look at myself and realize that, yes, in fact, this. I probably am really obsessed with the idea of people who don't present whatsoever as someone that you would be suspicious of or I. I'm endlessly fascinated by people who can really perform a certain Persona and personality, but. And hide this other dark, complex, horrific side to them. And it's. It probably comes down to me reading way too much about serial killer psychology and, you know, all of the accounts from, like, you know, BTK and insert killers and just everyone's like, genuine, honest shock. Who knew these people in their lives being like, I can't imagine, you know, he's a good church going man. So I'm always trying to pull one over on my readers and have them want to be connected to the exact people they can't trust. So for me, it was really fun to use that word, to make Citizen, hopefully as seductive a character as possible. So that when his guilt is on the page, it's like a struggle to accept or even if you saw it coming, you don't want it to be him. I guess.
- [30:24]
Ashley
Well, and the thing is, it certainly did not make him less likable. Yeah, I. I don't know. Like, in our book club, usually we get on to talk about the book of the month, and we're like, let's talk about all the men we hate in these books.
- [30:37]
Emily
Yep. Yep. I love it.
- [30:39]
Ashley
Just like, rip them apart one at a time. But it was like Citizen was like a whistleblower. And, like, there were things that he did that made him a likable, seemingly quote, unquote, moral person, but then also obviously not.
- [30:56]
Emily
Yep. And in his head, he's been moral the entire time. His morality just leads him into places, you know, like, darker places that, you know, the rest of us would say, you know, you've completely jumped the shark or. Yes. But yeah, in his. And that to me, because I feel like I love writing because that's true to life. Right. Everyone, no matter how villainous, is the protagonist of their own story. And so as a writer, if you can take your villain, take your antagonist, take your guilty character and convince readers that they at least really believe in what they're doing and why, I think that that's a. Certainly what I enjoy when thriller and mystery writers do is. Yeah. Get me to really buy into that that's more satisfying. So I'm always trying to do it.
- [31:59]
Ashley
Absolutely. Through the just different conversations you've had with people about this book will bury me or interviews you've done. Is there anything you haven't been asked or you haven't been able to share about the book that you think, I wish more people knew this or would ask me about it.
- [32:14]
Emily
That is such a good question. I feel like my. I've had every question under the sun about this book, you know, that has ranged from, like, my personal life to my, like, hoped impact or how the book has, you know, been been received by the true crime community, like, everything under the sun. So I'm kind of struggling to think of a question that I haven't been. Oh, maybe, maybe just. I know this is kind of like a passion for you and Emily, but just female serial killers and just talking a little bit more about that, because one of my favorite little niche lines of research that I did for this book was about female serial killers and how under the radar people, scientists feel maybe a lot of female serial killers are. And the question surrounding, you know, whether men really are just programmed through different ways, whether it's nature nurture a combination of both to be serial killers at a much higher rate than women, or if women are simply serial killers in a different way and have different patterns that science hasn't been as good at detecting so far. And that, like, you know, that was such a leading end of that sentence because obviously, you know, there's so much literature out there speculating that the latter is in fact the case. And that if we are. If, you know, if we uncover different profiles and patterns that maybe fit women serial killers a little bit better, that we'll start to uncover both historically and in real life, the existence of many more female serial killers. Sorry, I just, like, obviously I'm very passionate about this, but. Yeah, tell me what. Tell me what you think.
- [34:23]
Ashley
I think that this is. So we did an episode on your book on the podcast, just talking about your book in general. We did talk about female serial killers. I think it's on that. That episode and Emily brought up a horrific female serial killer. And then I, of course, am always like, well, if a woman kills someone, probably they deserved it.
- [34:44]
Emily
Yeah.
- [34:45]
Ashley
On the side of like, well, I mean, I don't know which.
- [34:50]
Emily
Oh, my God, yes. Where you and I could hang so hard. Yeah.
- [34:55]
Ashley
What do these men do to deserve it? Like, I don't know.
- [34:59]
Emily
Yep, exactly. You know, like. But she had a reason. Only one breeder has ever called out that I named Lizzie B. In the book after Elizabeth Bathory. That that's a call out to like the OG suspected female serial killer from history who you like, bathed supposedly in the blood of her female servants. And so because she killed other women, I can't give her, you know, a passenger. No.
- [35:37]
Ashley
Well, what I know you have been extremely busy with Thriller Fest and just two more things. So one, if you're allowed to share anything, can you tell us if we can pre order your new book that's coming out and what it is just like a quick synopsis, if you're allowed to share it. And then two, we always want to know what are you reading right now and if you're not and hopefully you're binging something on Netflix. So just those two things.
- [36:01]
Emily
I love it. Yeah. So I have so for my murder girlies, you may not be interested in this, but romantic drama called the Future Saints coming out in January. So that's my next book that's coming out and it is about a lead singer of an indie rock band who loses her sister, spirals in grief and then out of that grief comes a viral moment that shoots her into the super stardom that she'd been trying for decades to achieve. So, like out of her darkest moment came everything she ever wanted. And it turns out she was in no way prepared for that. And so also, you know, there's like this, what I really hope is a really vulnerable, beautiful, romantic love story there too. So that's next. And I just had the best time writing that. And I say that my two grief books are this book will Bury Me and the Future Saints. And one is my tragedy grief book and one is my comedy grief book. Back to that. Like fun. And so, yeah, Future Saints is the comedy. And then I have also written my next thriller. I cannot share. I'm so excited to share about it, but I think that you are going to like it. I think, and I hope so. I can't wait to share more about that. But it will be out in July 20and I'm reading right now Party of Liars by Kelsey Cox, who is a fellow Texan, a debut author. I'm going to be in conversation with her tomorrow at Murder by the Book here in Houston. We are blessed to have that amazing crime fiction bookstore. So it's fabulous. It's like a locked room mystery. Sixteen sweet sixteen birthday party, lavish birthday party, someone ends up dead and who done it. And I'm loving it.
- [38:02]
Ashley
I can't wait. We follow her on Instagram and have seen some stuff about it. So we'll have to go just share all of. All of that content that.
- [38:10]
Emily
She's a doll. Yes, absolute doll. And we love supporting debut authors because it is hard to be a debut.
- [38:18]
Ashley
And yeah, you know, the last few years we've just had featured authors at the retreat, but this year we're having 28 expo authors. Exactly what you're saying. Like, it's just so hard for some of these people, authors, writers, to get their work out there. So we thought we need to give a platform to people to come with an audience of our size and be like, here's what I'm. Here's what I wrote. Like, take, Take the time. Because there are so many extraordinary books out there that just don't get the. The marketing that they deserve to help the world find them.
- [38:53]
Emily
You are literally angels, because that is so impressive and wonderful and I love that you guys are doing that. That is so great.
- [39:04]
Ashley
Well, we just really like to read and yeah, we're like. So the more people we can meet and books we read, it's all selfish, Ashley. It's also.
- [39:12]
Emily
Yeah, I struggle to believe that, but yeah, no, that is it. Yeah. It has good side benefits, too.
- [39:20]
Ashley
Well, congratulations on everything. Thank you for chatting with us and we can't wait to meet you in February.
- [39:26]
Emily
I am so stoked. I cannot wait. And thank you for having me.
- [39:33]
Ashley
Thanks for listening. For more content, find us on Patreon at the Creepy Book Club. Happy reading.