← Books With Your Besties
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- [00:01]
Emily
Hi, I'm Emily.
- [00:03]
Ashley
I'm Ashley.
- [00:04]
Emily
And this is Books with youh Besties.
- [00:09]
Ashley
So, hi, besties. We are back with Celisia Stanton. She is the host of True or Crime, and she's going to be spending a little bit of time with us today. So, Celicia, just tell us a little bit about who you are, where you live, and anything else we should know about you.
- [00:23]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah. So like you said, I'm Celicia. I live in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm a really big fan of Minneapolis and the Twin Cities in general. I feel like people, you know, don't think much of us out here in the middle of the country, but there it's a lot of fun excitement, and so I'm really proud to be from here. But I am the host and creator of Truer Crime, which is a podcast, a true crime podcast that really seeks to go deeper with more nuance, context, and questions. And I also am a wedding and portrait photographer as well.
- [00:51]
Ashley
That's fascinating. I recently ran a marathon in your state and found it to be the place that had the nicest people of all time in the history of people.
- [01:00]
Celisia Stanton
No. Yeah. And did you run in the city?
- [01:03]
Ashley
No, I ran grandma's marathon.
- [01:04]
Celisia Stanton
Oh, it was in Duluth. Okay. Yes. Yeah. Well, I was just gonna say that I love that here. It's such a fun combination of like, city and nature. But good. I'm glad that you got the good, like, Minnesota, nice treatment.
- [01:16]
Ashley
We're gonna run you through 10 kind of fun questions so people can get to know you. Luckily, there are no right or wrong answers. So the first one is super simple. What is your favorite beverage or drink?
- [01:27]
Celisia Stanton
Ooh, I feel like I'm a big juice person. I really love soda too. I love, like any like, non water beverages. I will get like iced tea, like a, a sweet tea, or like a raspberry iced tea. And like, that's like off limits. Like, my husband can't touch that, so I'll have to go with that.
- [01:45]
Ashley
I love that Emily. I can see her laughing because I also do not drink water. I will drink anything except water.
- [01:52]
Celisia Stanton
Right? Exactly. I'm trying to become like a sparkling water girly. It's sort of working. I've always hated sparkling water, but it's kind of grow growing on me now. So it's a good way to try to get some more hydration in there.
- [02:01]
Ashley
What would you say is your best vacation spot?
- [02:04]
Celisia Stanton
I've gotten to go to some pretty cool places. One of my favorites is Copenhagen, Denmark, which kind of. I just went to sort of unexpectedly like I don't feel like a lot of people lease here in the US Are like, oh, I'm gonna travel to Copenhagen. But I had followed some people who lived there and so I was like, it looks really cool and interesting. So we did. My husband, I did a trip out there for like two weeks a couple years ago. And I loved the fashion, the food, the like, the food scene was great. But then they also had like great bakeries and things like that and it was just, it was a fun time.
- [02:35]
Ashley
This one's pretty predictable with the name of our podcast books with youh Besties. But what is one of your favorite books?
- [02:41]
Celisia Stanton
Okay. I feel like I'm really on a, on a, well, a romance and a memoir kick. So it's like always hard for me to like pick which one. But right now I'm listening to Ina Garten's memoir and that's super good. Just really interesting kind of to hear her experiences especially like it's making me think a lot about feminism and how gender roles have kind of shifted over, over time and just kind of like the hard fought privileges that we have in, in society now and then like a little second would be. I also read Katie Couric's memoir and hers was really interesting as well for some similar reasons too. Especially as like a woman in a male dominated industry. And also kind of just a little bit interesting and salacious because she's covered a lot of things and met a lot of celebrities. So it was a good one.
- [03:24]
Ashley
I also feel like Katie, I'm gonna read that based off your recommendation, was kind of loud about things when women weren't really loud about them. So I'd like to hear if she tells any of those stories about deciding to, to say something when most people expected her probably not to.
- [03:38]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, definitely. And yeah, she like, I felt like she really did not hold back. She kind of like fully shared what it was like going through all these different points in her life and like what her, you know, just kind of what her perspective is. I don't feel like she was scared about like offending anyone or anything like that. So I really appreciated that that authenticity.
- [03:56]
Ashley
Is there another creator either on Instagram, TikTok, any platforms or podcast hosts that you would like to shout out to bring attention to.
- [04:05]
Celisia Stanton
Sorry, you said PODC creator or a.
- [04:06]
Ashley
Creator on Instagram or like a social media person? Any type of creator.
- [04:10]
Celisia Stanton
A creator I love. Who I follow on Instagram is Ashley Spivey, who I just, I really actually she, she reminds me A lot of your account, Ashley. And that I. What I really love and respect about her, what she shares is like, you know, she'll share all this stuff about her life and, you know, she. She has a young daughter and, you know, lives in New York and so. And loves to eat good food and all this cool, fun things. But she really also brings in her political perspective and, you know, shares about social issues that she cares about. And she's just very unapologetic in a way that I think is sometimes really hard to find, especially in kind of that influencer space, and so love her content. And then her sister Alexis Vivie also has an account that's really great as well. And they often do, like, different cool collabs and things. Or like, I love. They do, like a cookbook of the month sometimes where they'll, like, do cook all the different recipes from this one book in one month. And that's kind of fun. So I feel like it's just a really good, well rounded account.
- [05:06]
Ashley
Oh, that's awesome. I think I follow Ashley, but not her sister. So I'll have to check. I'll have to check them out. Thank you.
- [05:12]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah.
- [05:12]
Ashley
Okay. What is one of your hobbies or interests outside of podcasting and photography?
- [05:18]
Celisia Stanton
I would say I really love. Why spend a lot of time with my cats? I have three cats. Jean Jacques, Piedmont, and Newton. And I'm a big, like, cat person. So just kind of. Honestly, so much of my day is like, oh, my God, look at that cute position they're in. Oh, my gosh, look at this cute position they're in. So I really enjoy that. But I'm also kind of like a foodie, and I love trying out new restaurants and bars and all of. And kind of just checking out the trendy spaces. And I feel like Minneapolis has a really good food scene too, so it's fun to explore.
- [05:48]
Ashley
Hopefully our families don't listen to our podcast. I don't think they do. But when we were at retreat, Emily and I were like, do you know who we miss the most? Our dogs.
- [05:56]
Celisia Stanton
Right. You know, Cause they're there all the time. And especially if you work from home, it's just like.
- [06:01]
Ashley
And you don't know if they understand you when you go on a trip and you're like, I'm not ever. I promise I'm coming back.
- [06:07]
Celisia Stanton
I know, I know. I literally have like, a little cat cam that I have plugged in just so I can, like, look at it and make sure that. Because with cats too, it's like, with A dog. You, like, really need a dog sitter. But with my cats, I'll have someone just drop in usually once a day. So I like having my little camera to be like, okay, thanks. God, they're doing the same things they literally always do.
- [06:24]
Emily
I think my dog, it used to be my children all the time, but my dog is now like, psycho when I'm on a zoom. Like, she knows that she should interrupt me. So already she was whining and I had to let her out. And that never happens. So if I turn my camera off, just so you know, it's to tend to the dog, of all things.
- [06:42]
Ashley
When would you say that you do your best work?
- [06:45]
Celisia Stanton
I. I'm a big morning person waking up. I live my. My husband always jokes. I. I live like three lives before he'll wake up. So sometimes he'll like, and be like, okay, well what were the lives that you lived today? And it was like, okay, well, I went and I like, went down this whole deep dive on the Internet. And then I, you know, so now I can tell you all about this, like, really niche thing that, like, no one even needs to know about. And then, you know, I planned our whole vacation. And also I wrote several pages for like, this episode I'm working on for True Crime. So definitely in the morning, try to like, condense as much like, of the high productivity things into that morning period.
- [07:17]
Ashley
Shared this at retreat and joked that she and I will just start blasting each other at seven in the morning with our ideas and our plans for the day. And then we basically don't communicate after 5pm it's like it's unwritten rule between the two of us that's like, our brains are done, there's happening after 5pm.
- [07:34]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, I feel exactly the same way.
- [07:36]
Ashley
So just a little bit deeper. Questions. How did you get started with podcasting?
- [07:41]
Celisia Stanton
Really a traditional path for me. I mentioned before that I'm a wedding and portrait photographer, and that's something I've done since basically right out of college. And, you know, going into 2020, obviously not a great time to be working in events. There weren't a lot of weddings going on, and so I found myself with a lot of extra time on my hands and living in Minneapolis, you know, after the murder of George Floyd is obviously a really big thing in my community and something that I was pretty involved with just in terms of like, the activism and the. Just the bigger community conversation that was happening. And so I started sharing about, like, racial and social justice issues and, and some like, educational posts. Really kind of in the aftermath of that and found that my perspective and some of the things I was sharing really resonated with folks. I had several posts go viral and just kind of grew a following on Instagram. Never had done anything like that before, but that kind of like ignited in me this idea of like, okay, like people do find something about my perspective interesting or you know, worth engaging with. And I, and, and for me, you know, being a black woman who lives in the Midwest, raised by gay parents, you know, all of these things sort of shape how I see the world. Also I coached debate, did debate in high school, coached it for over 10 years. I'm, I'm somebody who really loves to engage with things in like a critical, deeper way. And so I wanted to continue to, to do some of that work that I had done on Instagram, but I didn't necessarily want to do it in the social media format or sphere. I guess mostly just because it just didn't fit the way that I normally kind of like to engage in topics. I feel like sometimes social media can feel pretty black and white and unnuanced and it can be hard to kind people's attention. And I also found like in the aftermath of growing this following, like a lot of people kind of after, you know, the energy had died down, were kind of like not necessarily interested in engaging with the people that they had followed immediately after George Floyd's murder. And so I knew that like longer term I wanted to, to kind of share some of those messages and have some of those conversations, but maybe in a different way. And I didn't know what that was going to look like. And then sort of simultaneously I was actually working with this financial advisor just as a self employed person wanting to, to like make some plans for my future, like save for retirement or bigger goals down the line and not knowing exactly how to do that. And I had found this guy who is really great because he was really kind of focused on, on. Well, he said that his sort of values were about giving people who are traditionally denied access to financial systems some of that access. So that really appealed to me. I felt like we were super aligned in that way. And so, you know, a lot of his clients were black folks, women, solopreneurs, all of that. He was a black man himself, so that was like just cool to find somebody like that in, in this industry that is super undiverse or not diverse. And so we started working together and then long story short, turns out he was actually defrauding all of his investor clients so we stole more than $2 million from all of all the folks he was working with just for personal things, you know, to go on cruises and buy nice cars and all of that. And so obviously that was like a really crazy situation. I ended just, you know, Ben was kind of thrust into the criminal legal process. He ultimately ended up turning himself into the FBI, pleading guilty, getting sentenced to a seven year prison term, which is where he is now. But for me, in the aftermath of all of that, I was really left kind of reeling and, and just it was December of 2020, so it's kind of a depressing time. It's freezing out because it's Minnesota. And like, I was just doing cat puzzles and listening to true crime podcasts all day. And I would be pausing these shows all the time and like, kind of complaining to my husband about the things I fe, like, were missing. Specifically some of those things that I was saying earlier about, like, my perspective, you know, they weren't really talking about race or gender or sexuality or the root causes of crime or any of those things. And so I just felt like there was so much more that could be a part of these stories. And so I basically complained enough to my husband that he was like, you should start your own podcast. So that's what I did. And I. It was kind of a great way, a great venue for me to also do some of that work that I had really liked doing on Instagram initially, but in a longer format and in a medium that I knew would really connect with people, which is true crime storytelling. You know, a lot of folks really are invested in true crime, and it's a super popular genre and it is entertaining. I mean, even myself, I was binging episode after episode after episode. But true or crime, my show was really about how can you take that sort of engagement that you have from the listener and then mobilize that for something greater? Right? You know, can we have the takeaways from these stories to be like, to go out into our communities, have critical conversations, you know, lead people to donate or to volunteer their time or just to see people in their lives with more nuance and more empathy. So that's my very, like, long, roundabout way that I ended up here. But it's been a fun ride and I, I really enjoyed putting out the show. And we just, we're in the middle of putting out season two right now, but I put out that first season completely independently in spring of 2021, and to. To do more in the future here.
- [12:53]
Ashley
You walked me right into the Next question. But I'm going to just tell you a quick story before asking it. We recently read a book called Lake of Lost Girls, and there are two podcast hosts on it who were telling the story of this girl that had gone missing. And in. In the book, the family members of the girl that had gone missing are saying, like, how dare they tell our story? This is our family story. And they're using it for entertainment. And we were interviewing the authors, and we brought up your show and how it really has made a number of us critically look at the true crime we are listening to. To be like, are we listening to this because it's just entertainment and there's no actual outcome? They're just telling a story? Or are there some actionable items or just ways it makes me look at the world in a different way, and it feels like it's beneficial to listen to it. Does that make sense?
- [13:40]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah. And I actually, like, I'm. I think that's interesting, that point you brought up. I remember when I was first starting tour crime, I'd come across this just sort of statement that Tamir Rice's mom had made kind of just how she felt like, act some activists had maybe like, taken advantage of this story, and that she was ultimately like, this is not your story. This is my story. This is our story. Our story being the community story, like her immediate family and community. And it really made me think about, like, well, what does, like, determine whose story somebody. Some, like, these stories are, right? Like, are they just the families? And I think that, you know, certainly, I think we have a. As true crime storytellers and like people in true crime media, we have some sort of obligation to direct resources and support to those who are most directly affected. But then it's also about, you know, so often stories end up taking on a life beyond the initial, you know, sort of people that it impacted. I think George Floyd being a really interesting example of that, right? You have this sort of singular story of this awful thing that happened to this man. And it's not as if, like, police brutality is some new phenomenon, right? This is something that there's all these, you know, we've. This. We've all seen the statistics. You know, this was, you know, before there was George Floyd, there was Rodney King, right? So this is. There's a whole history of. Of these. Of this being true. But it was this singular story about George Floyd, this singular video that really mobilized people. So for me, it's always a balance of, like, yes, we need to respect and direct those supports towards the people who are most directly impacted. But also, it's like individual stories are what people inspire people. Right? They're what we can latch onto. Their. Their let what Dr. Live, you know, broader action. So I definitely think it's always important to. To be thinking about both sides of that.
- [15:34]
Ashley
I think, too, and we talked about this with your podcast, that it also can be a jumping off point for people who don't know how to start certain conversations, that these podcasts can be a way for us to. To have hard conversations with people that we might not other have if we didn't have the podcast as a vehicle to start them.
- [15:50]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's so. So often I feel like I talk to people who are like, I sent. You know, I'm listening this, this through. I'm listening through your podcast with my dad or my mom or my sister. And yeah, it does organically create conversations that are much harder to have and kind of awkward or uncomfortable, especially if you're not. If you haven't really flexed that muscle of having hard conversations. And that's the great thing about, you know, maybe you can consume these stories together. You can have these conversations. And then it does become easier down the line to bring up a tricky topic because you have a framework. And you also kind of know, like, if we disagree, like, the relationship is okay, you know, we have experience navigating it so selfishly.
- [16:32]
Ashley
We want to know how you choose the cases that you showcase on true or crime, because each one is so unique and so different. So how do you go about picking them?
- [16:41]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, well, I'm glad that, you know, it's felt sort of diverse to you. I think for me, from the very beginning, I always wanted true, truer crime to be a true crime podcast. Meaning, like, you know, I didn't want it to be the social justice podcast. I didn't want it to be the history podcast or the true crime podcast with that black host. Like, I wanted it to be a true crime podcast. And so that meant telling all different types of true crime stories, ones that are covered a lot, ones that aren't, ones that kind of are traditionally not seen as true crime. So I have kind of several categories I sort of think of that most of our episodes fit into. One would be like, infamous cases. So these are stories that people probably already know. Right? Like in. In season one, we did Jonestown. You know, a lot of people have heard of that story or feel very familiar with it, or at least they've heard the line like, don't drink the Kool Aid. But most people don't know that the majority of the folks who died in Jonestown were black folks and particularly black women. That Jim Jones was this person who really had. Was sort of fighting for racial and class equity, or at least that's how he portrayed himself, right? And that People's Temple, the group associated with Jonestown, was, you know, to the people in it, they felt like it was a civil rights organization or, you know, black power organization, you know, like all at different times. And. And so, you know, know, that's one type of story I like to tell, but then also I like to do stories that are kind of typically considered historical. Like that you normally get the history treatment. So in season, in this newest season, we put an episode on the untold story of the Martin Luther King assassination. And that was interesting because, like, in the creation of that episode, I asked a lot of people in my life, or you know, just people I would meet, like, what do you know about this case? Like, what do you know about Martin Luther King's assassination? And mostly people were like, I honestly realize, I don't know very much, or maybe they kind of know, oh yeah, like he was killed on a balcony, you know, by some assassin who went to prison or something. And, and some of that's true. Like he was killed at L Lorraine Motel in Memphis, Tennessee by an, you know, a single bullet. The man who ultimately pled guilty and would take responsibility for that was named James Earl Ray. And he was sentenced to 99 years in prison. But turns out, you know, the King family actually believed that, you know, James Earl Ray was set up, that there was this broader conspiracy to kill King. And in fact, they believed that the US government was a part of it, that the, the FBI in particular might have had a hand in his death. And in 1999, they sued the US government and several other entity entities saying. Alleging that exact thing. And they won that trial. And that's crazy, cuz, like, nobody knows that that was 1999. It wasn't that long ago, you know. And so, you know, these stories that I think typically we just kind of think of them as we would read in our history books. You know, like history buffs would be into it. I was like, what would it look like if we gave those stories the true crime treatment, you know, and like, allowed a new audience to kind of engage with them. In season one, we also did the Tulsa race massacre, so kind of a similar thing there. And then, you know, I like to do, like I said before, true crime stories that are a little bit more typical or familiar to people. We did Lauren McCluskey, which is an episode that you guys have talked about on your podcast. Just, you know, this is a case that I've heard covered on a few different other shows, but like other true crime shows. But what I. What really stood stood out to me about Lauren's case was like, you know, we kind of feel like all the systems in our society are set up to protect somebody like Lauren. You know, this beautiful white woman, young, you know, living in Utah. And she was still failed by these systems, right? She was still killed by an ex boyfriend, despite repeated appeals to police and housing authorities. And just like the university that she went to for help, nobody helped her. And he kind of just leaves you wondering, like, if somebody like Lauren isn't safe. You know, she represents so many other young women just like her, and young women who, you know, maybe don't look like her, whose stories never get told. And then the last kind of story, I like to try to do our stories which kind of blur the lines of culpability. You kind of wonder, well, who is the victim and who is the perpetrator. And I think that's the whole point of truer crime, right, is to. To tell stories that are a little bit more like what crime actually looks like in our society. So one of the cases that we did this season, which you guys also talked about on your podcast, was Alice Sebold and, and Anthony Broadwater. Alice Sebold being the author of the Lovely Bones, who was brutally attacked when she was in college. And she wrote this first book before she wrote the Lovely Bones, called Lucky, all about this attack and then the subsequent trial where her rapist was convicted. And that man was Anthony Broadway Broadwater. Turned out, though, that Anthony Broadwater was wrongfully convicted, that she had accidentally misidentified him. A super common phenomenon, especially when you're trying to identify somebody cross racially, which is what was happening in this case. And so it's. It's a story where, you know, Anthony spent 16 and a half years in prison for this crime he didn't commit. It impacted the whole rest of his life as well, even once he. He had gotten out. And Alice, you know, her life was so, you know, impacted by the. What had happened to her. And then she had built this whole career sort of speaking out on these issues of sexual assault before Me too, like when it was like, not okay to talk about that, those things. She went on Oprah and wrote these op. Eds and really was a voice for. For women at the time and in the future. And yet who is the victim? Who is, who is the perpetrator? Right. It's. It's unclear and it's messy. And I think that's what crime usually looks like when we kind of look a little deeper. So all types of stories, I think that anybody who comes to check out the show will probably find something that would interest them for sure.
- [22:35]
Ashley
And all types of emotional reactions. Emily and I, after we finished Lauren McCluskey, were just irate, like, just completely upset on that side. And then when we finished Anthony Broadwater, I was on a walk, I was sobbing. She was like, I. I cried numerous times. So if that's our reaction as listeners, I'm wondering, as you're researching and you are recording and you're working through this, how. How are you able to kind of give yourself a breather and a break and just kind of take care of yourself while you're doing this work?
- [23:05]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, I mean, for me, I feel like obviously we're also like, just living in a time where there's just so much information coming at us at once, and that can be really overwhelming and anxiety producing. And so I always try to, like, think about things from the perspective of, like, what is my lane? Right? Like, how can I stay in my lane? What is the work that I'm doing? And so, you know, more than trying to, like, protect myself, I guess, or like myself through telling these stories, it's almost like telling these stories is the way that I'm dealing with all the other inputs I'm getting, if that makes sense, where it's like, this is something tangible that I can do, you know, gain visibility for these stories, start these kind of critical conversations, talk about these, like, sticky themes that show up in our lives. Race and gender and sexuality and policy and all of that. But this is a way I can, like, be a part of a solution. And so I don't necessarily find that I have to, like, you know, do much more than that to kind of stay in a good headspace, because this is kind of like, I don't know, it resolves the rest for me. And I feel like. I also feel like, you know, you kind of have to tap into some of that, like, hard emotional stuff in order to tell the story. Well. I think one of the big things I wanted to do with telling a true crime story was like, it's kind of weird. Like, okay, I don't know if you've seen the trend on TikTok. This is old, but I think it's maybe from 2020 or something, but like, where, like, somebody's watching TV and then in the background, it's like her arms were cut off, her legs were cut off. I don't know if you. Okay. Yeah. And it's just like, about how women love to binge true crime and like, like, you know, someone will be like, that's crazy that you're, like, listening to that and just kind of like mindlessly consuming it. And, you know, that's relatable. But I also felt like there's something a little bit weird about that. Right. That we can just kind of consume these things so detached from the real impacts of what. What is being said. And so I always felt like, you know, if I was going to tell a true crime story, I want the listener to really be bought. Brought on a real emotional journey, you know, for them to feel the effects of some of the things. Things that, you know, I'm saying that some of the realities that I'm sharing. And so in order to do that for the listener, I feel like I kind of have to bring myself there too. And that's kind of part of. Part of the process a little bit. And. And, you know, so I don't know. It's a balance. And this is why we put out a certain number of episodes in a season or a year. But it's definitely, for me, it's more fulfilling than anything.
- [25:28]
Ashley
Just two more quick questions. You recently did a live event in your hometown. Do you have plans to do any more live events? Will you be traveling? Traveling and doing any shows?
- [25:37]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, I mean, I would love to do more. I don't have, like, an immediate plan for another one, but definitely there's more of that in the future. It was really cool to actually get to meet people and like, engage with folks who had listened to the show or who are maybe new to the show and kind of interested in checking it out. You know, like, dream scenario. I'd love to do tours and like, go to other cities and. And, you know, do more of like. Because this was more of like a launch party and we did a little bit of a reading and more of a conversation. I would love to do, like an actual live show or something in the future where we can like, really highlight a coup stories at the actual event and make it a little bit more interactive. So definitely more things in the works of the future, but no immediate plans.
- [26:15]
Ashley
Well, I know you would have at least two audience members there. We would come, so that would be fascinating. Also, I have a list of. If you're going to do True or Crime season three. I already have a list of cases I would like you to talk about.
- [26:27]
Celisia Stanton
Please let me know.
- [26:29]
Ashley
And lastly, I think podcasting is just this thing, and until you're in it, you don't really understand all the moving pieces and what it looks like. So is there anything about being a podcast host, doing the research that you want people to know that you think they don't know?
- [26:43]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, I mean, I think, I think that, you know, it's kind of interesting. Podcasts are free for the most part. You know, you're only paying for early access or to like binge or to, to, to have no ads. Um, and so that's pretty cool, right? I think that there are very few forms of media that are like truly, you know, you can just consume them and anyone, they're accessible to. Anybody, anyone. And I think another cool thing about podcasts too is just that they're like, they're so versatile. Can listen to them while you're driving or showering or doing whatever, so they don't necessarily have to interfere with you. Kind of like the busyness of our lives. But it takes so much to put them together, I think especially a show like True Crime, which is scripted. I always say, like, each season is like, I wrote a book, you know, I, I like. It's a lot of, it's a lot of pages, it's a lot of words. And it's especially because it's, you know, highly researched and it's like writing like a 20 page page, like research paper, but like make it. It has to sound like creative nonfiction. So it has to sound pretty in like a week. That's like, hard to do. It takes a lot of resources. So I think it's such a cool thing that podcasts are free, but of course it costs a lot to make them and it's, it's a lot of time. So I always want to like, remind people, like, if you have shows that you love, like, review them, share them, like, be loud about how much you like them. Because it really does make a difference. Difference, like for funding and, you know, for, for networks to be interested in renewing shows, it's just like everyone has that Netflix show that they were obsessed with. And then like, you're like, oh, I'm so ready for the next season and it's canceled, it's done, you know, and it's like that with podcasts. It's so great because there are other ways we can engage beyond just listening. Although that's like a Primary way. But, you know, those reviews, sharing all of that stuff, it really, really helps.
- [28:29]
Ashley
It definitely does. We filmed a live podcast at our retreat and basically said like, they're also just behind the scenes things you don't know that cost money, like editing software, microphones, just all the stuff that goes into basically a passion project that you kind of hope works out in the big picture. And enough people are excited to get on board and support you in some way to keep doing the work.
- [28:48]
Celisia Stanton
Yes, exactly. Exactly.
- [28:50]
Ashley
We love talking with you. Truer crime is just a gift. Also, if you're new and you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to all. I binged season one talk about binging. And I. I know Emily, who we listened to the whole thing and I have Alan Berg teed up to listen to today.
- [29:05]
Celisia Stanton
So. Yeah, thank you so much.
- [29:07]
Ashley
Yeah, thank you.
- [29:08]
Celisia Stanton
It was so great.
- [29:08]
Emily
You do have such a great variety. I will say that we have plans to record about a book that we recently read, a thriller book, and it directly relates to one of your stories in season one. So we're gonna talk about that story too. And you know, of course, refer them to listen to your episode because it's so thorough and so well done. But everything I read, I'm like, oh, Celisia has covered this tonight topic. Just keep relating it.
- [29:33]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, well, it's funny too, because it's more like. I feel like it's more like the same things just keep happening over and over again in society. Right. It's like the same themes. This is how I always felt like being a debate coach and doing debate is like we'd have all these different topics and yet we were talking about the same things. It felt like over and over again. And so, yeah, I really appreciate that, you guys having me on and listening to the show, it really means a lot. Yeah.
- [29:56]
Emily
Thank you. And not to go too dark all of a sudden at the last second, but, you know, I'm a social psycholog professor and so I teach one of the courses I teach. I teach psych and Lost related stuff. But then it's social psych, and that's looking at the social environment. And we are so bad about repeating history. Even though for the last, you know, 13 years, I've been telling my students, this is. Watch what's coming, this is what's happening. We're on the slippery slope. We have to be responsible enough to. To recognize and scale back on those things. So just in even a bigger picture. And. And we're just, you know, gently floating right down history lane right now like with popular politics and completely unaware and acting like it has never happened before. And it's so great we're making this lovely change to our country. But so it happens on such a, like a macro scale and a micro scale. So yeah, just I appreciate you bringing that to our attention.
- [30:47]
Celisia Stanton
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I think I always feel like the, the feeling of like once you see it you can't unsee it and I feel like that's part of the reason why I like to do this in a true crime storytelling format is it's like if that's a format that people are interested in and is accessible to folks that it's know then you can see it through that lens and then trust you will start seeing it everywhere.
- [31:07]
Emily
Yeah.
- [31:07]
Ashley
Thank you so much, Alicia.
- [31:09]
Celisia Stanton
Thank you dad. Thank you.
- [31:11]
Ashley
Thanks for listening.
- [31:13]
Celisia Stanton
For more content, find us on Patreon.
- [31:15]
Emily
At the Creepy Book Club.
- [31:17]
Ashley
Happy reading.