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Books With Your Besties
Emily Lived in a Haunted House - We Used To Live Here by Marcus Kliewer
00:26:29
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- [00:02]
A
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- [00:31]
B
Hi, I'm Emily. I'm Ashley and this is Books with your besties.
- [00:38]
C
Hi besties. We are here to talk about we used to live here by Marcus Cleaver and Emily, I have something to tell you right away that I don't think you know about it. Okay, I know. Did you know that the the novel began on Reddit in a subreddit called no Sleep and he wrote some something that was called the scariest story of 2021. And from that like short story, Simon and Schuster offered him a three book deal and the film before he'd even finished writing.
- [01:06]
B
You are kidding me.
- [01:07]
C
Isn't that awesome? Like just. I mean, Reddit. I feel like Reddit is this whole other place and that's where he got his book deal.
- [01:14]
B
That's incredible.
- [01:15]
C
Yeah. And I can't wait for the movie to come out because it's going to have Blake Lively. I guess that they got the rights to it in 2021 and still haven't started filming or anything. But I think it's going to be the scariest maybe movie of all time.
- [01:30]
B
Yes, it's. It was very scary. Did you do. You did the audiobook? So you listened with your ears?
- [01:35]
C
Yes. And let's remind everybody, full spoilers if you are here. This means you have read the book. You want to hear us talk about our thoughts on the book and bigger thoughts. If you haven't, go read it with your ears or your eyes now and then come back. I read it with my ears, so. Did you?
- [01:48]
B
Yes.
- [01:49]
C
Yes.
- [01:50]
B
And I loved the sound effects and I loved just the way it was read and it definitely scared me. And I was home alone. My husband wasn't here for a couple of nights and I was like, nope, we are not going to read this until he is back. And then even when he came back, I was like too close to bedtime. Pause. Do something else.
- [02:08]
C
I'm not sure I've ever had a more polarizing story. In our Instagram, I shared that you had read the book and that I was reading it and people either seemed to Love it or, or really not hate the book, but not appreciate the open ended ending. But I did put a question box and said, you know, we're going to be talking about this. What, what do you want us to talk about? Like, what do you want to know? And Emily, the number one question was, could you read it at night? And I was like, no, I could not.
- [02:35]
B
Nope. It definitely was very much an open ended sort of like, what is going on story? Because it's, it's paranormal. And don't forget here, full spoilers. It's like kind of paranormal in, in nature where you're like, I don't know who's alive and who's not alive and who's real and not real. And I still am not sure about any of that. But I really enjoyed the ride.
- [02:56]
C
I agree with you completely at first when you kind of warned me like, yeah, there's some paranormal stuff. Because sometimes I don't enjoy that. At the start of the book I just thought, oh, this family's showing up on the doorstep and they're going to like take, take over this house and kill her and do all these things. And then it just takes this complete twist where you're like, wait, was this family here first? And it's kind of this story of alternate realities and you think, who, who's controlling the narrative here? Like whose story is actually being told?
- [03:27]
B
Right. It was very scary. I loved the concept too. And I feel like there could be five thriller books written about the concept of someone being like, hey, I used to live here and we'd love to check out the house. Because actually when my parents bought their house, it was kind of an iconic house. It's not like it was huge or anything, but it was just unique because it was sort of east coast style on the west coast in this, in this little town we lived in. And so when they bought the house, everyone knows about the house. They're like, with the circular driveway, it's just like stuff. We had a basement, you know, like nobody else had these things in our town. And we had a man show up and say, I grew up here, I'm these people's son. And they knew those people, you know, so it was like there was more connection there. But he was like, I just, I'd love to walk through it. It's been years, you know, I haven't been here in so long. And he did. And I could totally see myself doing the same thing with that house. Going back and being like, I'd love to just see what's what you've done with the place.
- [04:20]
C
Look all the time to see if my childhood home is for sale. Because I'm like, if there's an open house, I want to go. I like to go see if. It's like, I have these rooms in my mind that I thought they. They seemed so big. And I'm like, were they big, or was I just little?
- [04:36]
B
Right.
- [04:36]
C
Okay, here's the question I wanted to ask you, because I couldn't really. I couldn't decide what you would do. I knew what I would do if someone showed up at my door, and I knew in my gut I should not probably let this person in. But then the inside voice is like, no, we've talked about this, how women are like, oh, no. I'm just getting, like, the weird gut feeling for no reason. This person probably doesn't want to do any harm. And then you let them in. I was like, I think I would fully let them in. I think I'd be like, fine, just. Just come in. Because I wouldn't want to upset this person who was coming to see their childhood home. Do you think at this phase in your life, you would let the person in?
- [05:15]
B
Not if my husband wasn't home.
- [05:17]
C
Okay.
- [05:18]
B
I think it would just be like, a whole family with a man in it. Like, no, I. I think I'd be like, you know what? Let's. We can definitely arrange this. Like, how long are you in town? And pick a good time for you to come and see the house.
- [05:29]
C
I did, like, though how Eve, like, took us through that journey in her brain of being like, I want to say no, but people always say, like, you're that way, you know, like, you always say, no, Be brave, or whatever. I did, like, kind of hearing her back and forth, and then as they're walking away, finally, her being like, okay, wait, wait. Never mind. You can come in.
- [05:48]
B
I know. I just thought it was funny she was doing that without her partner there, just knowing that it was so. I get it. I get it, because they just seemed nice and harmless. So I'm not saying I'm judging. And also, I don't know 100% what I would do, but I do think I'm scared enough of my own shadow at this point that I just don't think I would let them in. Like, even when there's, like, workers, there's, like, a vista, people outside. Like, I open the door a crack, you know, I'm like, what? I don't want to let the dog out is all. Like, what? Because I just Am so worried about what else it could be. What were the different psychological phenomena that he discussed? I loved some of these.
- [06:24]
C
Are you expecting me to have an answer to this? I have no idea what the names of any of them are, but I could explain them.
- [06:30]
B
Well, I can tell you one of them is called Capgras syndrome. And this is the concept where it's real. It's a real psychological syndrome that is probably so exceedingly rare. I don't know how many people ever have had it. I don't know. Two, you know, but where you. Where you believe that someone has been replaced. And I thought that was fun to integrate. Like, literally, you think that looks like my mother. That sounds like my mother, but it's not my mother. And actually, there's a TED talk, actually, by Dr. Ramachandran, and he does three clues to understanding your brain, and he talks about three different phenomena, and one of them is Capgras syndrome. So that's a really great TED Talk to go and watch, and we can link that to learn a little bit more about the syndrome. But it truly is like, that looks like my mother. That sounds like my mother, but I know it's not my mother. And so she has that in the book. And it was fun to kind of see that integrated people fall so quickly onto these sort of bigger topics of psychology, like dissociative identity disorder. I can't take that. You know, it just, like, it gets all played out. So it was fun to see one integrated that nobody knows about, really.
- [07:28]
C
Yeah. I think that this probably isn't a psychological thing, but you'll tell me. But basically, the idea of this is more like, what would you say? Metaphysical? Like the idea of alternate realities. Right. Like, I saw one person interpret the ending like the man in the shed she saw is Thomas. And so Thomas was the old man and also the child who was able to, like, manipulate. Manipulate reality and make his sister Allison go absolutely crazy. So just about these alternate realities that can happen, and how do we know that they don't exist? How do we know that?
- [07:59]
B
Right.
- [08:00]
C
That's.
- [08:00]
B
Yeah, I think he. I think he touched on some really interesting psychological phenomena that could, you know, would then make us really interested in what could be happening. He integrated this idea of potentially time lapses or the paranormal and like, sort of what is linear here with time. And I loved all of that. And then there was another huge theme, which was, was she mentally ill? And was this all entirely her mental illness? And I actually really wanted to talk about this. I don't want to Jump ahead. But should we just. Can I just. Can I just jump ahead?
- [08:32]
C
Basically, yeah. Yes. I've been wanting to talk about this.
- [08:35]
B
So this is the part of the book for me that I took away the most from it. And I don't even know if the author intended this to be a part of the theme or not. I mean, I'm sure the question of her mental illness or not. But at the end, he mentions, there's a whole community of people online who believe that what she experienced was reality. And I actually think this is hugely problematic in our society at this point. I have seen multiple times on TikTok and actually very recently on TikTok and Instagram Reels. There's a woman who came on and she said, I'm in love with my therapist, and I'm gonna tell you all of the stories about it. It's like, part one, you know, and she has, like, parts or something of her story. Of course, I did not listen to these because I didn't want to waste my time. But this woman I could see from the first two minutes of her talking is clearly in a psychotic episode. Like, she is not okay. She's in a mental health crisis. And this is a significant mental health crisis. And people online are either making fun of her. They are. And, like, turning it into a joke. They are trying to encourage her. They are doxing and threatening this psychologist who she's quote, unquote in. They are validating her experiences as real, which is extraordinarily damaging and unhelpful. And I've seen this in other contexts. I've seen on Instagram reels a guy who claimed to be a time traveler and was very compelling about being a time traveler or and also, like, understood the inner workings of government stuff. You know, like kind of like a spy and people validating him. I believe you. This makes sense. This makes sense that there must be these government things and really enjoying that they believe instead of seeing someone who's in a very, very sad, vulnerable position right now, who needs significant help, and actually you're doing harm by exacerbating the situation. People are so excited about the conspiracy theory garbage that they're like, I knew there were people who were time travelers that the government was hiding. It's this guy.
- [10:43]
C
Like, what do you think this guy's.
- [10:44]
B
Going to come on TikTok? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Like, get brain and take a look. And, you know, it's like, Britney Spears can't be having a psychological disorder. It's that her father has taken all of her money away for a long time at a conservatorship and now she's a clone of herself and it's not the real Britney. And all of her bizarre behavior we see online is her trying to give us coded messages to save her. And I'm so sick of this. I'm so sick of it. Because anybody who's in the mental health field, or even mental health field adjacent, like myself, can see, no, this is a very serious psychological disorder and it's so harmful to be giving it. I don't know, giving it truth and reality. So I just. I loved that theme in the book, even though it was a small part of it. I just thought, gosh, even if this was all entirely a mental illness, of course there's all these keyboard warriors who are going to go out there and make her believe everything she saw was real and not to listen to the people who are trying to help her to stabilize.
- [11:47]
C
And isn't that a theme? Tell me if I'm wrong in the way that I'm using this, but we're reading another book which I won't say the title of, because it could be a little bit of a spoiler. Not really, but isn't it that thing called. Is it Occam's Razor, where it's like the easiest. The simplest explanation is usually right. Like the simplest explanation being, it seems like she is in the book probably in an institution and had a mental health crisis. But we are going to try to look at it from a way that makes it a much more interesting story to salivate over and to get excited about instead of just being like, wow, that's really hard and sad that this is happening.
- [12:21]
B
Right. And like, two, it's not. It's not fantastical enough to be like, oh, it was all a mental health break, you know, like, that was it. But I think I can accept that. And the simplest explanation is probably right. And the thing is about that the other piece of it is, I think it's people grasping at straws, desperately wanting this reality not to be all it is, all there is. Do I think there are things that I don't know that are beyond my knowledge? Absolutely. Do I think that the government is doing things that are completely outside of my knowledge that are absolutely terrifying? 100%. Do I believe that there are lizard people who are morphing? No. Do I believe that there's chemtrails and they're cloud seeding? No. Like, you have to use some logic as into who is perpetuating and who is. Is hiding. Who's involved in hiding these secrets. Right. If there's a lizard person, first off, we have no explanation of how that could possibly happen. So there must be a generational family lineage of this and no one ever has caught it on video. Okie dokie. Right. Like, I just think, you know, or like Covid wasn't real. Like, if you think that, I hope to God you're also not voting because you cannot be making decisions for the people. If you can believe that every single single medical professional in the United States is in on a giant hoax and won't share it. Like, just to bel.
- [13:46]
C
Yeah, yeah. And like you, it's also that whole personally impacted piece. Right. Like, so you must not have lost someone to Covid like a lot of us did, if you're able to just say it wasn't a real thing.
- [13:58]
B
Yeah. I also am just like, oh, we figured out how to time travel, but this is what we've decided is the right place for us to be in.
- [14:06]
C
It does feel like we're going back. You can't get into that. I mean, it feels like we've time traveled back to a horrible place. But let's keep talking about the book and not go on that tangent.
- [14:18]
B
Didn't.
- [14:18]
C
One of the things about the book I wanted to make sure we talked about was just the way that Marcus wrote, like, stuff that scared, pardon my language, the shit out of me. Like the girl in the basement. And when they were like, if. If she runs, chase her and grab her. And it just felt. It felt like a scary, scary movie.
- [14:38]
B
I know. I also, I'm not sure in the book how the bulletins looked. I would assume that any of those, like, news bulletin, little like off shoots were like, in different font, you know, or in some specific way or separate chapter. But in the audiobook, they were so cool. They had like a sound effect with them. And those scared me.
- [14:55]
C
They did every time it came on with the loud beeping. I told you, like the emergency alert system. But I thought that was so clever.
- [15:04]
B
Very.
- [15:04]
C
He wrote those documents in. It was just clever. And then I did not anticipate. It kind of felt Heather Gooden Kofish. I did not anticipate the violence where she killed Paige and hurt Thomas. Right. Like stabbed Paige dozens of times.
- [15:20]
B
Yeah. In the neck.
- [15:21]
C
I did not expect that at all.
- [15:24]
B
Yeah. That was. That was dark.
- [15:26]
C
Yeah. And does seem like a reason that someone would then be institutionalized also.
- [15:31]
B
Like, was she institutionalized for that? I mean, this is the thing is, I. Okay, if I'm gonna choose an ending, a choose what? I believe. Okay. I believe she was their child. Right?
- [15:41]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [15:42]
B
Or no, they're his sister. Sorry. Their family. His sister. I believe he was her. She was his sister. She killed the page and. And, like, injured him. Thomas. And was institutionalized. And all of the rest of it is just within the institution. And time wise.
- [15:59]
C
Yes, agree. But then the ending where Eve.
- [16:02]
B
I know.
- [16:03]
C
Then is like, wait, where's. Like, where is. Where is she? Like that. That ending was nuts. For Eve to be. Or for not Eve. For Charlie. To Charlie. For Charlie to come back and be like, wait, where. Where's Eve?
- [16:16]
B
Right.
- [16:16]
C
That, like, that ending was crazy because in the end, Charlie's like, I came back to the house, and the house was boarded up and nobody was here. And then you're like, wait, what?
- [16:25]
B
I know that I don't think I want to live in that house. Do you? No.
- [16:28]
C
Are you kidding me? I also don't like lockets. I feel like lockets have nothing but bad stories about them.
- [16:34]
B
But I'm so glad you told me that, because I was gonna get Rosie a locket for her next birthday because I thought. I think she would love it. I think I'll. I don't know. Maybe not. I was gonna put a picture of a dead bird in it or something. Just kidding.
- [16:47]
C
That's great. I also think our readers who. The other thing I will say, the other question people asked was, did we ever consider not reading the book because there was a dog involved and we thought something might happen to the dog? No, no, no. I didn't think about that. But the dog was well written to make you think. Like what? I don't know. Like, when your dog randomly gets quiet or starts barking at stuff. Don't you think? What's going on in my house?
- [17:10]
B
For sure. Remember my ghost story? My brother brought his roommate, and his roommate came to visit me in college in that scary, scary house. And the dog stood in the kitchen, growling at the corner the whole time. And they were like, we've never seen the dog do this. And I was like, this house has a little something going on.
- [17:27]
C
That house was haunted. Didn't Juni do that, too one day in your house? Like, on your. Like in the middle of your stairs, like, on the landing at the top? Didn't you say once Juni just sat there and you were like, what are you doing?
- [17:38]
B
Yeah, but again, I'm scared of my own shadow, though. And Juni was probably, like, looking at a toy And I was like, oh, I don't know. That was I for real lived in a haunted house. Okay, but this was this one, is not it?
- [17:51]
C
No. But you did for real live in a haunted house.
- [17:55]
B
Yes. In fact, I'll tell you one other thing about that. You know, we had a few experiences, quite a few experiences there. And the dog just being one of them, that was super weird. And then I, I. Do you remember this part of the story that I walked past the house and sometime I'll get into like all the stories that we happen to us, but I walked past the house. Years later, I was going back to teach in our college town. Each college. So I had like my PhD at the time. And gosh, that must have been 10 years later. And the owner of the house or someone was outside working in the yard. And I was like, are you the owner? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, you know, I lived in this house back in whatever year. And he was like, oh, did you? I'm like, yeah, I just lived here for like four months. Whatever. I was like, yeah. I was like, I totally ever. Does anyone ever think it's haunted? And he's like, yeah, everybody.
- [18:43]
C
I remember that.
- [18:44]
B
Yeah. He was like, yeah, pretty much everybody sees a woman. He's like, people always say that. I'm like, did anyone die in this house? He's like, no. Like, but you don't know, really. And we don't know, you know, why or whatever. But isn't that weird?
- [18:56]
C
That is weird. And was it. I think I would remember if this was you or was it. I don't know if I'll say her name. Didn't someone also in that house experience like a sleep. Sleep paralysis situation? That was you. That was you. Why did I not think it was you?
- [19:11]
B
But not just me, okay? But not just me. There were three of us that lived there and we woke up and I was telling one of the roommates any. I was telling Jenny about how I had sleep paralysis and it was really scary. And sleep paralysis is marked by. And it's totally a normal thing, right? But it's marked by like typically seeing like a demon or a figure or something. So I did. I saw like a black figure above me. I couldn't move. I was awake. It was terrifying. It was absolutely awful. So just sitting in the living room telling her about that, and she was immediately just like, looked stricken and was like, are you joking? And I was like, no, I'm not joking. She's like, are you guys playing a prank? On me. And I was like, I don't understand the question. This is the one and only time I ever had sleep paralysis in my whole life. And she said, it's not a joke. And I was like, it's not a joke. And she was like, our other roommate, Lily, told me the same story this morning. And then Lily would not sleep there for like two days.
- [20:00]
C
I feel like I keep forgetting this story. And you've told me a million times because it's too scary and I don't want to believe it.
- [20:05]
B
I know. And then also, like, do you remember one of the people who. I mean, granted he was drinking a fair amount, but still, it was just like super out of character. David. David was standing on the stairs talking to somebody for a long time. And we were like, who are you talking to? And he's like, the lady.
- [20:22]
C
Yes. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. You lived in an actual haunted house.
- [20:26]
B
There was just weird stuff like that all the time. The dog, there was just weird vibes in there. I was terrified. Every time I walked into the basement. It just felt not okay, like, so scary. And. Yeah, it just felt off. And that was. I was only there a few months.
- [20:39]
C
I actually thought about that the other day because Durham asked me, what's a sleep paralysis demon? And I was like, oh, I can't. We can't talk about this right now.
- [20:47]
B
You're like something hopefully you never learn about.
- [20:49]
C
K. Don't worry about it. I'm not gonna tell you. You know, one of the other themes people talked about with this book that I. I loved, I'm learning. I really like books that feel a little bit like they're set almost like a. Like you're seeing a play, like a one act play where almost this entire book is in this house. And I think it almost makes it scarier to be like, all of this really scary stuff is happening in this one location. And just like your house should be the place where you feel. Where you feel safe.
- [21:18]
B
I know.
- [21:18]
C
To be in your own house questioning, am I losing grip with reality or is this really happening? I feel like that.
- [21:25]
B
I don't know.
- [21:26]
C
He just wrote that so well that you could tell. She felt so scared about, am I being threatened by these people? Am my house? Or am I really losing my grip on reality? And we've. I feel like I've been there before where I'm like, wait, is this me? Or is it something that's happening to me? And I. I don't know, like feeling like you might be losing your mind.
- [21:43]
B
Is terrifying all the time. Did I tell you that I. Yes, I told you I had my scary situation after Brit, when I saw you after the concert. No, I didn't tell you this. It's so not significant. It's so meaningless. But it just was like a really good test of what would I do. And basically, I came home. My husband was still not home, and my parents were watching the kids. And I came in and I chatted with my parents a little bit, and then they left. And it was like 10:45 when they left. It was late. I came upstairs and got ready for bed. Like, looked in on the kids. Everything was good. I looked at Steve's location. He was still downtown. And then I heard two minutes later, the door open and we have a chime. It goes, bloop, bloop. And then I heard the laundry room door open. So a second door. And the dog heard and started to run downstairs. And I yelled, steve. Because it went so fast. And I could. I could hear that he didn't lock the door. So I was like, steve, Steve. And there was no answer. And so I looked again, and he texted coming home. And so I called him and I was like, you're not here. And he's like, no. And it was like 11:15 at this point. And I have. That's the most scared that I've been in my house. I was really close to calling 91 1. I was like, someone's in my home. Like, someone saw me come home and knows I'm alone or like, it's so paranoid. And Steve's like, you've got to stop reading thriller books. I was like, it's not.
- [23:07]
C
Was it nobody?
- [23:08]
B
You just, like, heard it was my mom. And she had taken my computer on accident and came back to put it back. So I was like calling my mom and calling my stepdad, and finally my stepdad answered.
- [23:21]
C
That is absolutely terrifying. Yeah. No, you did not tell me that. That is. I was asleep at that point in time. I walked in, put brush my teeth, and went to bed.
- [23:29]
B
Well, I. I had gotten myself into a tizzy because I practice a lot of safe practices around when I am alone. And it's extremely rare. Like, it. I cannot. I can count on one hand the number of nights that I'm home alone. Like a year, you know? So it's like, not like he's gone a lot, but he went out of town. And I'd gotten myself into such a tizzy about the Uber driver because he got picked up at 4 in the. 4:30 in the morning to Go to the airport, and I'm like, waving out the front door. And I was like, cool. I just, like, waved at a random man who works night in the middle of the night that now knows my husband is flying away on an airplane. And I just was like, that is so stupid. You know, like, what a stupid thing to do. So I'd gotten myself all worked up, and I think I just haven't gotten my mind away from that. Anyway, we don't have any ghosts here, at least, so. And I'm not letting anyone in to look at the house.
- [24:17]
C
But also, why does everyone that loves you try to steal your computer? I also tried to steal your computer.
- [24:23]
B
I know. And also my mom and Greg when I was in Cayucas. I don't know which one of them, but when I was at the beach, I couldn't find my computer in the morning, and they had stacked it with theirs.
- [24:34]
C
There's something about your laptop that we all want to take.
- [24:37]
B
I know. I was like, listen, that is mine, folks.
- [24:41]
C
Okay. Is there anything about the book we haven't talked about that we feel like we must talk about?
- [24:45]
B
No. I feel like my one big thought piece from it was the part about just, like, leaning into everything, being real and not accepting, like, that mental health is a real problem, and not being, like, thoughtful about how important that is. That was the one, like, kind of takeaway for me. But I liked it. It was fun.
- [25:03]
C
I thought. I absolutely loved it. And then you finished, and I am now listening to Dark Matter and it feels like some of the same themes of this book, but extraordinarily amplified times a trillion. I love it.
- [25:18]
B
It's different themes. It is. I think I look forward to talking about that. Dark Matter by Blake Crouch. It's just an entirely different story. I mean, I get why there. You see similarities between them, but I think because I did Dark Matter first, they're so different. Like, I never thought of it as similar.
- [25:34]
C
I think just alternate reality piece. I'm like, that just so far. And I'm only. I think I still have, like, four hours left.
- [25:41]
B
Yes. It gets so interesting. I think.
- [25:43]
C
Yeah, it. I feel like it could. I feel like that it could break my heart in certain ways, because I just think if you could see how your life could have gone differently. I don't know if that's helpful or harmful in the big picture.
- [25:56]
B
Save that thought.
- [25:57]
C
I'm going to. But that's where I am right now. I just. I can't decide if, when I finish it, I'm going to feel sad or empowered or, like, super sad.
- [26:05]
B
Yeah, we'll talk about that one soon, because that's a. That's a fun one. So go read Dark Matter by Blake Crouch, too, okay?
- [26:10]
C
And get your retreat tickets so you can come talk about all the books with us. Yay.
- [26:14]
B
That was gonna be so fun.
- [26:17]
C
Thanks for listening.
- [26:18]
B
For more content, find us on Patreon at the Creepy Book Club.
- [26:22]
C
Happy reading.