Unpacking the Controversy behind Verity

Summary

Books With Your Besties

Episode: Unpacking the Controversy behind Verity
Hosts: Emily & Ashley
Date: September 26, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this lively, banter-filled episode, Emily and Ashley dive deep into the phenomenon and polarization surrounding Colleen Hoover’s blockbuster thriller, Verity. They dissect its contentious reputation, share personal stories and book club anecdotes, and draw on psychological concepts to explain the heated discourse that makes this book so infamous among readers. The conversation is rich with humor, critical insight, and the best-friend chemistry listeners love, offering both keen analysis and relatable moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Histories with Verity

• The hosts recount first encountering Verity in summer 2021, back when the book was largely unknown and far less controversial ([03:00]–[06:59]).
• Emily recalls gifting the book to Ashley on a trip to Vail, and their early reactions were enthusiastic:
  • “Both of us loved it. Loved it.” – Emily [06:22]
• Discussion of the book club’s polling history: In a 2023 poll, Verity overwhelmingly beat another thriller, reflecting its growing popularity ([04:30]–[05:12]).

2. The Evolution of Thriller Popularity

• They highlight the rise of thrillers as a genre, noting how Verity coincided with a social media-driven boom in psychological thrillers ([06:22]–[06:59]):
  • “I also think at the same time was the rise of the real popularization of thriller books.” – Emily [06:22]
• Ashley notes the apparent snowball effect of word-of-mouth and online discussion ([06:23]–[07:40]).

3. Why Is Verity So Controversial?

• Emily brings in her psychology expertise to explain the book’s divisiveness:
  • “What’s most interesting about this is the love it or hate it kind of concept. And I think it relates to our culture and politics.” – Emily [08:08]
• She discusses the false uniqueness effect: the human tendency to see oneself as more unique than reality supports, which affects how people engage with popular phenomena ([10:26]–[11:58]):
  • “We want to believe that we are different and unique and special... but you’re actually much more alike to most people than you think.” – Emily [10:39]
• Popular things often get labeled as “basic” and are sometimes scorned as a result ([12:01]–[12:57]).
  • “‘Basic. Basic. And that’s like, that’s an insult. You’re basic. You’re not unique.’” – Ashley & Emily [12:00–12:03]

4. Reader Reactions: Love, Hate, and Bandwagoning

• The hosts explore why so many people claim to hate Verity, even when statistics (Goodreads ratings) suggest overwhelming positivity ([08:08]–[10:26]):
  • “It has 3.62 million ratings… and it’s rated 4.3 out of 5 stars… only 4% of people who read this book gave it one or two stars. Everybody else somewhat liked it or more.” – Emily [08:08–09:45]
• They suggest some hatred may stem from wanting to reject what’s popular or from reading it after excessive hype ([12:57]–[14:02]):
  • “There are also people who love to jump on the bandwagon of how stupid this book was… which they probably wouldn’t have done if they’d read it before all the hype.” – Emily [12:57]

5. Analyzing the Book’s Content

• Both hosts praise the execution of plot twists, with Verity ranking among the most memorable in the genre ([13:55]–[14:29]).
  • “This is, to me, still one of the best twists of all time.” – Ashley [14:16]
• They discuss the ambiguous ending and the controversial extra chapter, highlighting the narrative's refusal to offer easy answers or moral clarity ([14:29]–[15:24]).
  • “It’s still the cool thing about the [extra] chapter... it doesn’t answer the question for me.” – Emily [15:04]
• Spicy/romantic content: Ashley found it surprisingly “super sexy,” which can be a sticking point for some readers ([07:43]–[08:03]).

6. On Colleen Hoover and Genre-Crossing

• The hosts admire Hoover’s capacity to write both romance and thrillers, comparing her agility to other multi-genre authors ([18:24]–[19:55]).
  • “Go you. To be able to switch between those genres and write so well for that audience cannot be easy in any form.” – Ashley [18:33]
• They touch on the broader controversies surrounding Hoover’s oeuvre, particularly criticisms for romanticizing problematic relationships ([20:30]–[22:16]).
  • “I don’t think you can be as big as Colleen Hoover and not step into controversy.” – Emily [20:35]
• Personal experience: Some find value in Hoover’s depictions of difficult relationships, others find them problematic—the hosts advocate for a nuanced understanding ([21:57]–[22:16]).

7. Book-to-Screen Adaptation & Casting Hype

• Upcoming Verity adaptation is discussed with anticipation—star-studded cast (Josh Hartnett, Dakota Johnson, Anne Hathaway) and expected release date: October 2026 ([22:30]–[23:20]).
  • “This movie is made for people our age because Josh Hartnett was a heartthrob in our day.” – Emily [22:30]

8. Humorous Personal Antics

• The episode winds down with a funny story about Emily and Ashley’s comical sleep-talk night, tying it back to the creepy themes in Verity ([23:55]–[25:52]):
  • “What? What? What? What?... We had a little night fight.” – Emily & Ashley [25:12–25:26]
• Their laughter and ease exemplify why listeners love their dynamic.

9. Final Thoughts: Perception, Loud Voices, and Reality

• Emily reiterates that while haters might seem numerous, data shows most people actually enjoyed Verity.
  • “82% of people gave it four or five stars. The people who just didn’t like it… are just really, really loud.” – Emily [26:25]
• The conversation closes with a reflection on how loud opinions often misrepresent the true majority in both book fandom and broader culture ([26:54]–[27:04]).

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “We want to believe that we are different and unique and special... but you’re actually much more alike to most people than you think. There is far more that connects us than divides us.”
  — Emily [10:39]
• “Liking or not liking a book doesn’t make you more unique or better than anybody else.”
  — Emily [12:01]
• “We’re totally willing to suspend reality for basically every thriller book ever. But people who are like, this is so unrealistic. I mean, okay, that’s how we read it.”
  — Emily [13:13]
• “It’s still the cool thing about the [extra] chapter... it doesn’t answer the question for me.”
  — Emily [15:04]
• “Go you. To be able to switch between those genres and write so well for that audience cannot be easy in any form. Like, good job.”
  — Ashley [18:33]
• “I don’t think you can be as big as Colleen Hoover and not step into controversy.”
  — Emily [20:35]
• “The people who just didn’t like it, the 18% are just really, really loud. They just try to represent the whole, but it doesn’t mean they’re actually representative.”
  — Emily [26:25]

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Important Timestamps

• 03:00–06:59: Early personal experiences with Verity.
• 06:22–07:40: The rise of thrillers and Verity’s initial reception.
• 08:08–10:26: Controversy and psychological analysis (false uniqueness effect).
• 13:55–15:24: Twist discussion and reactions to the extra chapter.
• 20:30–22:16: Colleen Hoover’s controversies and authorial controversy in general.
• 22:30–23:20: Movie adaptation and casting excitement.
• 23:55–25:52: Sleep-talk story; bonding through bookish and personal experiences.
• 26:25–27:04: The “loud minority” phenomenon in fandom and society.

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Summary

This episode offers an engaging, multi-layered take on the Verity debate: part critical literary discussion, part cultural critique, and part hilarious friendship vignette. Whether a diehard Hoover fan or an intrigued outsider, listeners come away with a well-rounded understanding of why this book stirs such strong reactions—and why, despite the noise, it remains beloved by so many.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Emily.

[B]

I'm Ashley.

[A]

And this is Books with your besties.

[B]

Okay. Before we start. Well, we're already recording. Maybe we'll leave this in. Maybe we'll take it out. But you know on Buzzsprout how we get offers for ads. Yeah, like that people will pay literally $0.01 per download for ads. I don't think so. We have three now there are two that would potentially be good fits. One is anonymous callers. This one's not a good fit. One is Lauren Crime. And then this one. Join Bishop Kevin Sweeney for inspired interviews with Christians living out their faith. I'm like, have you even listened to our podcast?

[A]

This is like. He's like, I will convert these women or at least offer to their heathen demographic.

[B]

I wish you could counter. So, you know, Buzzsprout just sets the amount that they pay. I wish you could counter and be like, yeah, for $10,000 an episode, feel free to answered to put that on.

[A]

Shoot five.

[B]

I'll spread your religious propaganda for $5,000.

[A]

Actually, I think you're right. It is religious propaganda. We can't for no amount of money. If we were doing this for the money, we certainly wouldn't have talked about the things that we have.

[B]

No, we wouldn't talk about things that are going to instead cost us money. Probably when someone has to bail us out of jail or camp somewhere.

[A]

Okay, should we go? Should we do it?

[B]

Yeah, we can do it. Talk about the. One of the most controversial books in the last. When did we read it? Five year four.

[A]

I know. So here we go, besties. This is it. This is the big moment. We are going to talk about Verity by Colleen Hoover. Have you heard of this book? Has anyone heard of it?

[B]

Doubtful. If you haven't stop, go read it. Tell us how you haven't heard of it. Because I want to live like you and then come back and listen.

[A]

Yes. This is so controversial. This book is very well loved and very, very much hated. But why don't we talk about it? I think we should talk about our opinion since we are high brow, really intellectually gifted women who read only intellectually stimulating things. What did you think of Verity?

[B]

Well, I obviously, I feel actually, I really do want to look back. I feel like it was one of the first, first handful of books we read as part of the book club. Right. And it was beloved by our members. I don't remember anybody really being like they didn't love it. But I just re listened to it the past 24 hours to kind of refresh my memory. And I. I love it. But I also forgot how traumatic and super sexy it is.

[A]

Yeah, both of those. Here's the thing is we read it not as part of the book club first, which is really rare for us. So I don't know if we actually read it as the book club. Did we?

[B]

I don't think we did, but I think we talked about it.

[A]

Well, for sure. We must have talked about it. But I read it on the way to. Oh, no. Yep. On the way to Vail to meet up with you and Kristen and gave it to you in Vail. And you read it on the way home.

[B]

How do you remember these things?

[A]

This is. I catalog every single thing you and I do in my brain.

[B]

So then it was 20. That was 2020. Summer of 2020.

[A]

Yeah. So it was actually right when we were, like, thinking about starting up the book club. We started it by then, maybe, but it was just really a baby. It was.

[B]

I'm actually looking back on our creepy book club page. I just put in Verity to see, like. It's so funny to see the books that people talk about. It's certainly one of our most talked about books. Okay, so we did use it before we started.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait. It was summer 2021 that we met up. Not 2020. Summer 2020. We were like in lockdown. Covid.

[B]

Not us. We were just out there traveling, reading.

[A]

They loved having us there. Yeah, they were like, oh, good tourists.

[B]

So July 2021. And we read it right after. So we read one by one, Ruth Ware, June 2021. And then July was Verity. So we must have picked it right after you read it. And then.

[A]

Or be. Or maybe we picked it before and I brought it for you. I don't know. But I do remember Nora from college.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

She recommended it. I remember. Look at. Look at this. Why do I. What am I doing? I'm like, clocking everyone that ever said anything about Verity. I know what you said. I have the receipts in my brain. Probably Nora will be like, I never read it. Why would you say that? Or maybe she just said, like, I'd. She'd heard it was really good. And I was like, ooh, Nora likes the same stuff as us. Well.

[B]

And we're just going way back here. I know this isn't about the book. We'll get to talking about the book. But we all. We did a poll also, em, in 2023. At the time we were doing, like, which book did you like more? And matchup we did was Verity by Colleen Hoover versus five total strangers. It was a 48 hour vote and five total strangers only got five votes. Verity got 265.

[A]

Oh, wait. What's so funny about that is then we used five total total strangers as our retreat book.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Remember later?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's funny. Wow. Wow. We were. Okay, we were popular by then. 200 votes, that's like, that's more people than I've ever met in my life. That's amazing.

[B]

It's just really interesting to type already into our group page and see that. It's like, I mean, I'm just scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. There's well over like 50 to 60 posts. Just about.

[A]

Yeah. Okay, here's the thing is we read it right when it was just starting to get talked about. So, like, I hadn't heard that much about it. It was not a controversial book. It was just that people were starting to be like, oh, hey, we've noticed this book, it's a thriller and it has romance in it. And we were like, let's do it. And both of us loved it. Loved it. And I think there is an effect to this because I also think at the same time was the rise of the real popularization of thriller books. I'm not saying people weren't reading thrillers before this, but there has been this wave of popularity of people being more into thriller books, more into talking about thriller books. And we are riding that wave. Right. It will never crash because they're so fun and awesome. Awesome. But don't you agree that before this it was like, yeah, thrillers, thrillers are pretty good. But like, I don't know, it just, if you look back at social media, people weren't like gaga the same way.

[B]

Completely agree with you. And I think, I mean, maybe I just wasn't paying attention as much on Instagram or other platforms to thriller books. But it did feel like one that all of a sudden took over the Internet.

[A]

Yes. But also we did so much research to be like, wait, is this out there? And it just was a little bit, but not a lot. It wasn't. It wasn't just this massive thing yet. I mean, there were people who loved thrillers, obviously always, but I think maybe the community piece of it or the talking about it piece of it was growing at that time. So anyway, the point of all of that is that Verity was not controversial.

[B]

No. At first it wasn't at all. Even looking again, I'll say it again at our page, nobody's like, oh, I read Verity because I saw it on TikTok people are like, my brother gave this book to me. Have you read it? So it seems like started as this slow roll, and then it just kind of steamrolled through the psychological thriller community. And I think it took people by surprise because. Do you. I don't know if this is fair to ask, because neither of us were into romance books, but people who were already fans of Colleen Hoover, I wonder what role they played in being like, we already love her, and now she wrote this. I guess I don't know it from that perspective. Like, did she already have a big, big following for Verity?

[A]

Right. I'm. That's a good question. I don't know.

[B]

No. Did you? So I think we both Not. You already said this. We both read it the first time with our eyes. Yes, I read it yesterday with my ears. And that was really when I remembered how much spiciness is in the book, because Hunter got in the car to drive to school this morning, and it was playing, and I was like, pause, pause.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

What are you. You're looking. What?

[A]

Okay, so here's what I'm gonna just tell you.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Here's why this book is controversial. I think we should talk about that. Like, we can talk about our thoughts about the book, but I think what's most interesting about this is the love it or hate it kind of concept. And I think it relates to our culture and politics, and I think it relates to just about anything. Okay? So. And I talk about this with my classes. I'm gonna get all psychology on you here. I'm gonna go psychologist, doctor, reader. I have to. Okay, so Verity became really controversial because on social media, on any post about Verity, not even half the comments would be like, well, I loved it, but a lot of the comments would be, I hated this. Who could possibly like it? This is the funniest, dumbest thing I've ever said, heard, or read. It's horribly written. Colleen Hoover's a pack. It's terrible. And so we started to be like, gosh, only like, half of people like this book. Wrong. Wrong. There's verifiable data out there about how people feel about this book generally. This is one of the most reviewed books on Goodreads. It has 3.62 million ratings. 3.62. This is not a small sample size. And if you want to say, well, only people who really liked it go to go to rate the book. That's actually not how goodreads works at all. And that. And you know that to not be true. This is a random general Sample of goodreads its users. So 3.6 million reviews. It's also one of the highest rated books on Goodreads because you know that goodreads reviews like a four is really good. It's rated four, three out of five stars. Okay, if you look a 2% of people gave it four or five stars. Only 1% of people gave it one star and two stars. 3% of people. So we're looking at 4% of people who read this book gave it one or two stars. Everybody else either somewhat liked it or more. Okay, but here is what there is. The first review. The first review you can see 2.5 stars. This was straight up hilarious. The funniest creepy book ever written. This is by Mariva. Did I hear that people cried while reading this? I sure hope it was tears of laughter or pain. Thought, thought, thought. Next, most recent. One star, then two star, then one star, then five stars. Okay, but here's what it makes me think. There is something called the false uniqueness effect. This is the concept. Have I talked about this before on this? Probably.

[B]

No, you haven't. Not on the podcast. You've talked to me about it, but not on the podcast.

[A]

Okay. This is the concept that we all think we are more unique than we actually are. It is a research demonstrated effect. We want to be so unique.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Is anybody else exactly like us? Yes. No. I mean, maybe we have some unique things, but here's the reality. We're like. I mean, Steve and I have this joke where we'll be like, I don't know how to connect. Like, I like pizza. Do you like pizza? And he'll be like, I like pizza. And we'll be like, that's crazy. I like pizza too. We just want to believe that we are different and unique and special. And then you look around and this is what the research demonstrates is you are actually much more alike to most people than you think. There is far more that connects us than divides us. And you surround yourself with similar others. So you're like, I'm. I'm emo and I'm different. You know, like, I'm a hipster. Okay. And all your friends are too. Literally the whole east side of Portland is. So we like to think that we're unique, but we're not. And so what we do is we seek ways to be unique. Why are things extremely popular and we call these. We actually, we actually derogate things that are popular or have risen to the level of sort of, I don't know, something that everybody seems like like pumpkin spice. Uggs. Right. Liking Verity. Popular movies. Right? Like all of these kinds of things. We derogate people who like them and we call them what? Ashley. What is. What do we call somebody? A woman named Ashley who wears Uggs and likes pumpkin spice lattes and reads.

[B]

Verity just like an average Joe.

[A]

Basic.

[B]

A basic bitch.

[A]

Sorry, you. If you go online sometime, Ashley, you'll see those kinds of terminology. Basic. Basic. And that's like, that's an insult. You're basic. You're not unique. A shame on you for thinking you're better than someone else because you don't like pumpkin spice. You're like, I don't like pumpkin spice. I would never. I drink chai teas. Like, how embarrassing. Okay. And B, it doesn't make you unique. Everybody drinks coffee how you drink your coffee. It doesn't make you special or unique. Right? So liking or not liking a book doesn't make you more unique or better than anybody else. So there are people, I'm sure, who genuinely didn't like this book because that is the way that things work. Right. But I guarantee you there are also people who love to jump on the bandwagon of how stupid this book was and read it through that. That lens and made fun of and tore apart every little thing that they could, which they probably wouldn't have done if they'd read it before all the hype.

[B]

Completely agree. And isn't there something too. I mean, it's exactly what you were saying. But to being so firm and taking the completely opposite stance as the popular view, then you feel very like, oh, no, I. I don't like it. When you probably actually do. You just think it feels really cool to say you don't.

[A]

Yeah. And. And. And some people, you know, would be like, no, I'm gonna defend. I really didn't like it. Okay, fine, you didn't. And also, maybe you read it after you read 30 other similar thrillers. But if you didn't and you read it first, that's one of the other issues. You know, there are these books that are riffs on other books, and if you. Whichever one you read first is going to be the one you enjoy the most. Right? Because you're like, I had never seen that twist before. So I'm very loyal to the books that had the first iteration of a twist. And then, you know, I've read the same twist in other books and it's like, meh. Right. You know, we're also. We're totally willing to suspend reality for basically every thriller book ever. But people who are like, this is so unrealistic. I mean, okay, that's how we read it.

[B]

We're not reading it because we want to read something that's like our everyday, predictable life.

[A]

Right. We would be reading true crime if we wanted to. Realistic.

[B]

But so in my rereading of Verity, yes, the massive twist at the end still completely got me. I was like, this is one of the best twists. I mean, we have now read hundreds of thriller books. Hundreds. And some have similar twists. Some have twists that aren't great. Other than a handful of other books like Rock Paper Scissors, probably Behind Closed Doors, this is, to me, is still one of the best twists of all time.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's a good twist too. And I think it's a fun, like, didn't see it coming exactly like that. And I also think it's awesome that you can't be sure what's true. And some people really don't like that. So I get maybe that's why some people didn't like the book. But I really like that you couldn't tell. And then did you read the extra chapter?

[B]

So I tried to. I tried to get it on audible, but you can't just download the extra chapter. So I did read. I used our BFF chat GPT and was like, how. What are the spoilers? So they move, kind of try to start this new life. A woman from his past comes and then he kills her also.

[A]

Well, he kills her, but. But not exactly. It's. It's. It's still the cool thing about the. The chapter. I think that's cool. And people were so mad about it. Still doesn't make you understand who was good or bad. I think it solidifies more that everybody was not good in the book. You're like, okay, nobody here should be totally fully trusted. But you're like, it doesn't answer the question for me.

[B]

Well, and they used the word serial killer. And I was like, well, he killed Verity and maybe this person. But the killing of Verity was, like, not a premeditated. I don't know. I was like, serial killer feels like a really weird word to use.

[A]

Right. And was the killing of Verity merited? Or was the. Was the transcript real or was it all the story? Because if it was real, everybody's sort of like, well, that's justifiable homicide. But if it wasn't real, then he murdered his wife and, like, tried to hide it and pulled the wool over Lauren's eyes. Lauren's her name, right? Okay. Yeah, sorry. I don't know why I just blanked out. I was like, because, because, because we work with Lauren. I'm like, did I see that on text or was that actually what I was.

[B]

I think it's L O W E.

[A]

S. Oh, yeah, Lowen. That's right. Lowen. That's why I thought they just were saying Lauren without a good R. Lowen. So, yeah, I don't know. And. And the, the. Maybe the movie will have more of a spin on it. I'll be curious since Colleen Hoover will obviously be super involved with that, how she conveys whether if we'll have a better idea or if it will be really left up to interpretation.

[B]

You know, I, I felt like. I know we're talking about bigger themes in the book, but just the actual book. I mean, I do remember the first time reading it having a, like, something popped out moment when she was like, she's at the top of the stairs. She saw her eyes move when she threw something at her to see if she could catch it. I'm like, I think this movie's going to be scary as hell.

[A]

Ooh, I hope so. I do remember actually being a little jump scared a few times in that. Well, because it builds tension. Well, too. And, you know, here's the other thing is people who don't like spicy or don't like her spicy or do like spicy, but not her version of spicy. Like, for me, that was like a non issue because I don't care for reading spicy in books. So I would like kind of flip through that to get to the end of the scene. Like, I. It wasn't relevant to me. So people were like, whoa, that was dark. I'm like, missed it. You know, I didn't. I don't care. So I guess that maybe is part of why that didn't. That didn't bother me.

[B]

Well, and I guess in the people I've seen who claim they don't like the book, I've never seen an actual reason. And like, if I don't finish a book or I don't like a book, I can tell you why I didn't like it. Yeah, I can tell you why. If it was the writing, if it was some, I can't like the club. I'm like, I don't know. I just didn't like it. I could not get into it. I couldn't find a rhythm. But I haven't seen anybody who is so mad about Verity able to tell me why.

[A]

I know they just think it was stupid, I guess, and they They, I think probably too, there's a layer of, you know, relative expectation. Right. So if you expect it to be amazing because everybody loved it and then you're a little disappointed, that's going to feel a lot worse than if you go in blind like we did. Like, I had no idea what this was about. I had no expectations of it. And same with you. I was like, read this. And you're like, really? I'm like, yeah, read it. I don't know.

[B]

Well, because then when we looked her up, I was like, she's a romance author. Like, am I going to like this book?

[A]

That is. The other thing is that if you are reading it after all of these other really popularized Colleen Hoover books, I think that's also going to impact the way that you see things after you formed an opinion about this author or their writing. I think we lucked out in reading it before all that hype.

[B]

I agree. And it also makes me think, like, you know, AR Tour, we have only read AR Tour's thriller works and she has this whole other library.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Romance. And like, for me, when I look at like a Colleen Hoover or an AR tour, I'm like, go you. To be able to switch between those genres and write so well for that audience cannot be easy in any form. Like, good job.

[A]

The same is true with. Is it Darcy Coates? No. Darby Kane. Right?

[B]

Yeah, Maybe that's who I was talking about. No, but I also think AR Tour. Right?

[A]

No AR tour also, but there's. Think Darby Kane. Hold on. You just are going to have to put up with me. Is it Darby Kane?

[B]

I'll talk at you while you're looking because we just interviewed Kelsey Cox about this and she talked about how she kind of picked her lane to be a thriller writer because you have to be so all in with the genre you're writing to learn about how to write it, how to write the twist, how you need to kind of be all in. Which made me even more impressed with people who are able to jump genres and write really well across multiple.

[A]

Yes, yes, it is. It's Helen K. Demon Diamond. I don't know how to say her last name. Damone. Sorry, sorry. Helen Kay. You're amazing. She also writes romance and women's fiction with romantic elements like she is. And she has a ton of everything. Her whole catalog is massive. So I. I love seeing authors have that ability to jump genres. I think that's cool.

[B]

I also love. So we read Verity and then Colleen, who I didn't know anything about, went on this Huge book tour, obviously. As she should have. And do you remember when she posted the video and she, like, fell on the escalator? She did something that people would be like, well, publicly, that was a tad embarrassing. She totally put it on her Instagram. And she was like, here, here's me. And I'm like, woman who does not take herself too seriously. Like, I'm on this tour for this hugely successful book, and I'm also just a woman who does funny stuff like trip on the escalator.

[A]

Yes. Okay. There's another controversy about her, though. Do we. Do we remember what that is?

[B]

No. About Colleen.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I say, like, she's my best friend. I'm like, like, about Colleen.

[A]

I know her popular books romanticize abusive relationships and portray problematic themes like toxic partners and domestic violence in a problematic way. Here's the thing is, I don't think you can be as big as Colleen Hoover and not step into controversy. I don't mean to say. I mean, truly, that's a. Maybe a terrible thing to say, and I'm not trying to dismiss anybody's feelings, but I think probably there are ways you're going to rub people wrong in various spaces, and they have probably valid points. And also the author is doing their art the way they're doing it. Right. And so there's going to be controversy anyway. I was just double checking that it wasn't like, we were like, we loved it and we love her, and then we're like, oh, oh, she's a horrific racist or something. No, nothing like that. Okay.

[B]

Did that stuff begin to bubble up more after the movie with Blake Lively and Justin Baldoni, like, the bigger conversation about domestic violence and.

[A]

No. And, you know, I think that's valuable. I'd love to hear. Oh, I'd love to hear more from people who kind of. I don't know. Of the study that. Wait. Like myself, studying violence against women.

[B]

Like, I hate to think about the handful of women who have experienced it, but if there's someone who has. Who wants to share why. I don't know, like, why they felt like it was written in a way that didn't portray it in a respectful manner. I don't know if that's the right word.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, I actually had some of her books that are about domestic violence recommended to me by somebody in a relationship that is like that, and they really found it helpful. So I don't know. I'm. That's what I'm saying is I'm sure there's people who are going to Take things all different ways. I'm not dismissing it, but I do think, you know, there's probably different perspectives on that.

[B]

Yeah. And there's also different. I mean, you just bring your own lens to everything. Right. Like something that might be very triggering for me that's not going to be for other people. And I can't make a general statement about it because it's something that's personally difficult for me.

[A]

Right, right, right. Same. Well, anyway, the movie looks amazing. Is Josh Hartnett, who I love. I'm sorry, this. This movie is made for people our age because Josh Hartnett was like a heartthrob in our day. And now Pearl Harbor.

[B]

Josh Hartnett in Pearl harbor. And like, he could do no wrong in that movie.

[A]

Yes. And then love Dakota Johnson. Yes. And Anne Hathaway. I mean, Dakota Johnson, I think is a perfect cast for that.

[B]

Cannot wait.

[A]

When does it come out?

[B]

Probably something horrible like 2028. And we're just gonna have to wait forever.

[A]

You're gonna be so excited to hear this. It comes out October 2nd of 2026. I saw you get excited. I love to break your heart. That was funny. Okay, so, yeah, one year. One year from now we'll watch that. That sounds fun.

[B]

Well, we have Woman in Cabin 10 Coming soon.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

And I feel like there are a couple other book to screen things that are happening, but at least we have that one.

[A]

Okay. I think we should end on a light note because we just went down a really difficult rabbit hole there of domestic violence on accident. That's not even really related to. I mean, I guess it is related to Verity because it's a domestic situation. Anyway, we don't know the situation of Verity. I think we should go down the route of you telling the story of how you started laughing this morning listening to her waking up in the bed with her.

[B]

You want me to tell that story?

[A]

Yeah, I think it's funny.

[B]

It's going to be longer than you think because I feel like it needs background information.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, here we go. How should we start this? So we went on a girls weekend with our friend Kristen Jackson. Shared a house. House had two bedrooms. So, like, normal Emily and I shared a bit. I have a history of. Would you call it talking in my sleep? It's more screaming in my sleep.

[A]

I. I feel like. I feel like it could have been me. But anyway, go on. I don't want to blame you because I also. I just have the unstableness.

[B]

So a couple more things. I. We both sleep hard. Like when we are asleep. I sleep like an owl. Just face down. Don't move. My body dead when I sleep. You also sleep like a dead person. Once you're asleep, there's not a lot of movement happening between either of us. So in the middle. Well, also, we should say this. We did go to sleep watching after watching Cops.

[A]

Cops.

[B]

We were watching Cops. So we were going to sleep already with our, like, cortisol heightened, because that's not probably the best thing to watch before you go to sleep. And we woke up in the middle of the night. And if you do yoga, both of us were in some sort of like half cobra pose. And one of us, I think Emily said what? To the other person. And the other person being me, said what?

[A]

Back.

[B]

And we did that about 17 times.

[A]

What? What? What? What? What?

[B]

Shouted what? Into each other's toes. And then. And then Emily, I think you said, somebody said what? And I said, I think you said what?

[A]

It's a night fight. We had a little night fight. What?

[B]

And then we woke up the next morning and remembered and cried, laughing harder than I've laughed in, I think my entire life.

[A]

So every so often we just say to each other, what? What? What? What? So I just.

[B]

In the scene in the book where she just wakes up in the bed with her, I said, wouldn't that situation have only been more terrifying if we weren't already in bed together? And you just woke up next to me. And we said, what? What?

[A]

What?

[B]

And this is also after we joked about the Sun River Scritcher being a serial killer at our window. So, anyway, I can't.

[A]

There is no Sun River Scritcher. FYI. That's just.

[B]

I don't. I don't even think there's ever been a murder in Sun River.

[A]

That's Ashley's imagination.

[B]

It's my fear of ground level sleeping. I only like to be on a second or third story.

[A]

This is why, typically we always demand to have separate beds. But we were willing to sleep together in a king. But because this is what happens in the night. A lot of shouting.

[B]

It's just my nighttime terrors.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Okay. There you go. We'll leave you with that. That's the fun stuff. Let us know how much you hate us now for liking Verity. We can take it. We can handle it. Oh, I forgot to say the part where feel like the hatred of Verity. This is the same kind of thing. 82% of people gave it four or five stars. The people who just didn't like it, the 18% are just really really loud. They just try to represent the whole, but it doesn't mean they're actually representative.

[B]

Which brings us back to the part you were saying how it feels. Now, we could go down a whole rabbit hole, but we won't. We'll end. But how it feels like politics, right? Like sometimes the loudest voices are not the majority.

[A]

Yes, exactly. Gosh.

[B]

On that note, before we go down this rabbit hole and get canceled for all eternity. Bye, besties.

[A]

Bye.

[B]

Thanks for listening.

[A]

For more content, find us on Patreon at the Creepy Book Club.

[B]

Happy? Ready?