**Podcast Episode Summary: "Why Do Women Hate Women?"
Podcast: Books (and true crime) With Your Besties
Hosts: Emily and Ashley
Release Date: February 28, 2025

Introduction: Exploring the Dynamics of Female Relationships and Societal Perceptions

In the episode titled "Why Do Women Hate Women?", hosts Emily and Ashley delve deep into the complex dynamics that often lead to tension and animosity among women. Drawing parallels between literature and real-life true crime cases, they explore themes of disbelief, societal double standards, and the systemic challenges women face in both personal and public spheres.

Section 1: Analyzing "Night Watching" by Tracy Sierra

Book Overview:
Emily and Ashley begin their discussion with a thorough analysis of Tracy Sierra's novel, "Night Watching." Both hosts commend the audiobook version, praising its gripping narrative and emotional depth.

• Plot Summary:
  The story centers around a woman and her two young children who find themselves hiding in their historic home after their husband dies from a fall down the stairs. As they seek refuge from an unknown threat—a figure nicknamed "the corner"—the protagonist grapples with fear, grief, and the struggle to protect her children.

• Themes and Character Development:
  The hosts highlight how Sierra masterfully creates suspense by keeping both the protagonist and the reader in a state of uncertainty regarding the husband's fate and the true nature of the threats they face.

  • Emily (02:41): "I felt like, this whole thing—is this whole book gonna be in this one night? And it's not."
  • Ashley (04:17): "He did such a good job... bringing to life the sounds of the house. I have shivers on my arms right now. That was absolutely terrifying."

• Societal Commentary:
  A significant portion of their analysis focuses on the theme of women not being believed. The protagonist's experiences mirror real-life situations where women’s fears and assertions are dismissed or doubted.

  • Emily (07:14): "But she was telling the truth the whole time. And that was the end of the book, and it still just kept you on the edge of your seat. Brilliant."

Section 2: True Crime Cases Highlighting Women's Struggles

Darlie Routier Case:
Emily introduces listeners to the Darlie Routier case, emphasizing how systemic biases in the criminal justice system often lead to women being wrongfully accused and convicted.

• Case Details:
  Darlie Routier, a mother accused of murdering her children, became a prime example of how women's testimonies are scrutinized and how bias can influence legal outcomes.

Melissa Lucio Case:
Ashley brings up the tragic case of Melissa Lucio, the first woman of Latino descent sentenced to death in Texas.

• Case Overview:
  Melissa was convicted of capital murder following the death of her two-year-old daughter, Mariah, who died after falling down the stairs due to Melissa's mild physical disability.

  • Ashley (31:23): "They just decided. Instead of looking at this as an absolutely tragic and horrific case where someone's child falls down the stairs, they’re gonna say that the mom murdered her."

• Systemic Failures:
  The discussion highlights how Melissa's coerced confession, obtained through relentless and unethical interrogation techniques, showcases the broader issue of women not being believed or properly represented in court.

  • Emily (33:00): "So there's this double standard where men are allowed to be excused for the things that they have done and women are not."

Section 3: Societal Double Standards Between Genders

Male vs. Female Perpetrators:
Emily and Ashley examine the stark contrasts in how society perceives male and female perpetrators of crimes.

• Celebrity Cases:
  They discuss high-profile cases such as Johnny Depp, Chris Watts, and comparing public reactions to male perpetrators vs. women in similar situations.

  • Ashley (38:04): "If they name Susan Smith, there's nobody that's going to, quote, unquote, defend her. There's nobody that's going to say anything but horrible things about her."
  • Emily (38:14): "Chris Watts gets fan mail. He has women who write him letters in prison to this day. He brutally murdered his wife and two tiny daughters."

• Public Perception:
  The hosts argue that men often receive sympathy or are excused due to their public persona, whereas women are vilified and rarely afforded the same leniency.

  • Emily (39:51): "Everyone is like that. Everyone has someone that they are in certain contexts and not others. Like, who I am in the classroom is not exactly who I am with my husband is not exactly who I am with you, Ashley."

Systemic Issues:
They connect these double standards to broader societal structures that perpetuate gender biases, reinforcing stereotypes that undermine women's credibility and agency.

Section 4: Politics and the Erosion of Women's Rights

Current Political Climate:
The conversation shifts to how contemporary politics are impacting women's rights and societal perceptions.

• Authoritative Bias:
  Emily expresses frustration over how political figures and societal leaders contribute to the marginalization of women, citing examples like the "Handmaid’s Tale" and current legislative moves that threaten women's autonomy.

  • Emily (45:19): "And I feel like this is happening. This is what we do as a society... Just judgmental to say this, do you think he's really Pirates of the Caribbean? Do you think that's who he is?"

• Patriarchal Systems:
  They discuss the enduring influence of patriarchal systems that dictate women's roles and limit their opportunities, resulting in systemic disenfranchisement.

  • Ashley (22:51): "We don’t believe them because we have Hillary Clinton, Kamala Harris. We have women who have been telling us over and over and over again."

Section 5: Empowerment and the Path Forward

Empowering Women:
Emily and Ashley conclude by emphasizing the importance of empowering women and challenging the societal norms that perpetuate mistrust and animosity among women.

• Taking a Stand:
  They encourage listeners to support initiatives like the Innocence Project, highlighting the critical role of advocacy in overturning wrongful convictions.

  • Ashley (27:56): "We have talked about the Innocence Project. I love to follow their work. Ben and I donate to them because we think the work they are doing is very important because people get wrongfully imprisoned and wrongfully convicted."

• Community Support:
  The hosts advocate for building supportive communities where women uplift each other rather than tearing each other down, fostering an environment of trust and collaboration.

  • Emily (43:16): "I want to be defined by the things that I love, not the things that I hate. So when you are talking about your hatred for Blake Lively or your hatred for Amber Heard... I just think we should give more grace, especially when we're thinking about women."

• Accountability vs. Harm:
  They differentiate between holding individuals accountable and spreading hate, urging for compassionate approaches that seek to understand and remedy the underlying issues contributing to women’s struggles.

  • Ashley (43:25): "It's about wanting to protect as many people as we can before that harm is caused."

Notable Quotes

• Emily:
  "I want to be defined by the things that I love, not the things that I hate." (42:05)

• Ashley:
  "One in three exonerated women are wrongfully convicted of harming children or other loved ones." (34:39)

• Emily:
  "Everyone has someone that they are in certain contexts and not others." (38:15)

Conclusion: A Call for Change

Emily and Ashley wrap up the episode by reiterating the need for societal introspection and systemic changes to eliminate the ingrained biases that pit women against each other. They emphasize the importance of believing women, supporting each other, and challenging the patriarchal norms that continue to undermine women's voices and experiences.

Through their insightful conversation, the hosts not only shed light on the pervasive issue of women feeling animosity towards one another but also offer a roadmap for fostering solidarity and empowerment. Their passionate discourse underscores the urgency of addressing these deep-seated issues to create a more equitable and supportive society for all women.

Additional Resources:

• Melissa Lucio Case: The State of Texas vs. Melissa Lucio Documentary
• Innocence Project: Learn More and Support

Upcoming:
Stay tuned for their next episode, where Emily and Ashley will interview Megan Collins about her book "Cross My Heart," further exploring themes of women's experiences and societal challenges.