3 Ways to Sell a Lifestyle, Not a Product

Summary

Brain Driven Brands: Episode Summary

Title: 3 Ways to Sell a Lifestyle, Not a Product
Host: Sarah Levinger
Guest: Kevin Luby
Release Date: March 18, 2025
Duration: Approximately 34 minutes

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Introduction

In this episode of Brain Driven Brands, host Sarah Levinger welcomes her special guest, Kevin Luby, to delve into the nuanced art of selling a lifestyle rather than just a product. Kevin, whose background spans magazine editing and the outdoor industry, brings invaluable insights from his current role with High Camp Flasks—a luxury drinkware brand inspired by the outdoors.

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Understanding the Shift: From Product to Lifestyle

Sarah Levinger opens the conversation by highlighting a fundamental truth in marketing: “people don't buy products. They're buying a version of themselves” (00:31). This sets the stage for exploring how brands can embed themselves into the identities of their consumers.

Kevin Luby shares his journey, emphasizing the transition from his past role as a magazine editor at Skiing Magazine to developing a product that balances lifestyle appeal with functional sophistication. He explains, “High Camp Flasks started by a couple really, really smart outdoor guys…” (03:40), illustrating the brand’s roots in the outdoor lifestyle and its evolution into a premium product.

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Challenges in Direct-to-Consumer (D2C) Marketing

The discussion moves to the challenges faced by D2C brands, particularly those in the outdoor sector. Sarah notes the difficulty in maintaining a singular lifestyle focus when the product appeals to a broader audience: “It's hard in D2C, I think, because coming from a background of like ski magazines, that's one use case” (02:49).

Kevin elaborates on the struggle to expand beyond the initial niche without diluting the brand’s core identity: “We're a small, you know, we're a small but fast growing brand… what that lifestyle is evolving into from this, like, core backcountry, you know, whiskey bottle and mason jar, you know, impetus.” (06:48).

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Strategizing to Sell a Lifestyle

Recognizing the impending plateau in brand growth, Sarah offers strategic advice to help Kevin navigate the transition from product-centric to lifestyle-centric branding. She outlines three actionable tactics:

1. Create an In-Group

Sarah emphasizes the power of community by citing successful examples like Harley Davidson’s HOG group and Lululemon’s Lululs. She advises Kevin to establish a unique community around High Camp Flasks: “Give your community some sort of a name that pertains to whoever you are” (11:44). This could involve offering exclusive perks or VIP access to foster a sense of belonging and encourage user-generated content.

Kevin responds enthusiastically, noting that this idea aligns with recent interests within his team: “It's come up twice for me this week” (14:52). He acknowledges the potential of tapping into existing passionate communities to amplify brand presence.

2. Double Down on a Content Style

Drawing inspiration from Red Bull’s extreme sports content, Sarah recommends that High Camp Flasks identify and amplify their core brand concept: “Pick a content style and then go heavy, hard on it, like double, triple down” (15:00). By exaggerating their unique lifestyle association, the brand can create compelling and memorable content that resonates deeply with their audience.

Kevin reflects on his brand's content strategy, emphasizing the importance of quality and emotional connection: “We really dove in there… we're getting more proud of, right” (18:13).

3. Position as a Premium Luxury Brand

Sarah proposes a bold move for luxury products: “If you're a luxury product, double your price” (24:03). This tactic can enhance the brand’s perception of scarcity and premium quality, similar to how Yeti successfully positioned itself at the high end of the market.

Kevin expresses caution, highlighting the balance between premium pricing and delivering exceptional value: “Luxury for the sake of luxury is not all that interesting” (24:25). He underscores the necessity of aligning product quality with the elevated lifestyle experience the brand aims to offer.

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Building a Durable Brand

As the conversation progresses, Kevin and Sarah agree on the importance of distinguishing High Camp Flasks from other stainless steel drinkware brands. Kevin states, “We're not trying to make a Tumblr a quencher” (28:15), emphasizing the need for strategic brand positioning over mere aesthetic similarities.

Sarah reinforces the idea by highlighting the value of defining what the brand stands for and, importantly, what it does not: “It's actually better as a brand to decide who you are not than trying to decide who you are” (28:04).

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Conclusion and Takeaways

In wrapping up, Sarah commends the collaborative effort and anticipates significant growth for High Camp Flasks as they implement these strategies: “That was really helpful. Super helpful” (33:19).

Kevin shares his excitement about the future, recognizing the transformative impact of shifting focus toward brand marketing: “I'm a closet weirdo, always willing to try… It's freaking crazy” (30:54). He acknowledges the broader horizon now available for brand expansion and deeper customer connection.

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Connect with High Camp Flasks and Sarah Levinger

• Kevin Luby: Active on LinkedIn and Twitter. Find him at Loveland Ski Area on Saturdays.
• Sarah Levinger: Engage with her on Twitter and LinkedIn. Visit TetherInsights.io for more insights into customer emotional and psychographic needs.

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Key Quotes:

• Sarah Levinger (00:31): “People don't buy products. They're buying a version of themselves.”
• Kevin Luby (03:40): “High Camp Flasks started by a couple really, really smart outdoor guys…”
• Sarah Levinger (11:44): “Give your community some sort of a name that pertains to whoever you are.”
• Sarah Levinger (15:00): “Pick a content style and then go heavy, hard on it, like double, triple down.”
• Sarah Levinger (24:03): “If you're a luxury product, double your price.”
• Kevin Luby (28:15): “We're not trying to make a Tumblr a quencher.”
• Kevin Luby (30:54): “I'm a closet weirdo, always willing to try… It's freaking crazy.”

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This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of how brands can transcend mere product offerings to become integral parts of their customers' lifestyles. By fostering community, crafting distinctive content, and strategically positioning as a premium brand, High Camp Flasks is poised to elevate its market presence and resonate deeply with its audience.

Transcript

[Kevin]

Foreign.

[Sarah Levenger]

Brands. I'm two cups of coffee in and I'm getting sick again. Anybody who doesn't have kids, let me just tell you. Oh, man. There's nothing like having just a germy little ball of, like, love that just constantly wants to touch you and give you everything that they have, primarily germs. So I'm doing fine. But I have a special guest podcast today. Kevin.

[Kevin]

Kevin.

[Sarah Levenger]

How are you, Kevin? Now, how do you say your last name? I say Luby. Is that right?

[Kevin]

You got it right? Yeah.

[Sarah Levenger]

Well, good. Ok. Okay. Today I want to talk to you about a very interesting topic, mostly because I think this is something a lot of people are currently trying or in my experience, I attract a lot of brands that are trying to figure this out right now. So I'm interested to see what your take on this is because you have a very interesting product, very interesting brand, which we'll intro here in a second. But in general, today's topic is about three ways to sell a lifestyle and not a product. Selling a lifestyle and not a product. So in general, in my experience, people don't buy products. Right. You and I have talked about this a little bit where they are buying a version of themselves. They're not really buying just whatever the actual physical item is, whatever they select out in the world typically aligns with who they are outside of the brand, who they are just like, in their everyday lives. So the question I want to pose today is how do you make your brand a part of their identity? So first, before I make you answer that super, like, vague question, do you want.

[Kevin]

I'm not sure. I know, but we're working on it. I mean, we're definitely working on it. Yeah. It's funny. It's kind of one of those things that, like, you go away from and you come back to and you go away from and you come back to over and over, you know, especially, like, as you kind of, like, follow the winds of what you're, you know, the Twitter Sphere and the LinkedIn sphere. And, you know, but it's, it's, it's really interesting because, like, I definitely, like, my history is a lot more on the, like, lifestyle side. Like, I was a magazine. I was a magazine editor at Skiing magazine. That's where I started writing, building magazines. And, like, you know, that was, it was entirely a lifestyle business. Right. And, like, I come from the outdoor industry. Worked in a variety of brands in the outdoor industry, where it's all lifestyle.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

But then kind of like stumbled into this new, this drinkware brand. Not stumbled. I've been working for him for a while now. But like, you know, where it's a little bit larger tam, it's a little bit more of a product. Like, you have this opportunity to kind of like lean into the reality that just way more people want to use the product. And you can kind of like, you know, find yourself like meandering away from like the lifestyle that maybe that like, exemplifies that because there are so many more lifestyles. Right. You don't know which, which lifestyle to pursue or how to pursue it.

[Sarah Levenger]

It's hard in D2C, I think, because coming from a background of like ski magazines, that's one use case. Like, you can really only do one thing with it, which is ski. Like, you can't take it. Yeah.

[Kevin]

I mean, it was entirely about the lifestyle of skiing.

[Sarah Levenger]

You can't like take it to the coffee shop and be like, now I'm skiing in the coffee shop. You can't do that. So there's only one use case. D2C is rough, especially for your industry because you guys sell these really cool, like, very high end flasks, which I absolutely love and I 100 want one. But they're very like, what's the word? They just look luxurious, which is different from most flasks in your industry. So you guys correct me if I'm wrong, you kind of compete with like the Coleman flasks. Right? You compete with just like the Walmart kind, you know, and then there's tons more in between. Walmart to you guys.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Our brand, High Camp Flasks, you know, started by a couple really, really smart outdoor guys that, you know, like to go out and basically like, like to go on backpacking trips and then drink nice whiskey. Right. And as you should. Right. And the way they used to do it was take a bottle of a black, a glass bottle, and then like slap a, a glass mason jar on top, tape it all up and like, that was it.

[Sarah Levenger]

That's how they took their stuff.

[Kevin]

That was smart. Yeah. That was like the original idea of this. So then, you know, that ultimately turned into a stainless steel drinkware product that was the, you know, the ability to bring your whole bottle of whiskey or your whole bottle of wine with two integrated, you know, tumblers, and boom, you have a business that was like, certainly inspired by the outdoors, like the outdoor lifestyle. The beginning of this brand was very much driven by, you know, trying to appeal to outdoors. You know, I think we found over time that, like, that it was almost easier to convince people that Liked nice whiskey, nice wine, nice spirits to drink outside than it was to like convince outdoor people to drink.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

Nicer stuff, right. Like, if you're bringing.

[Sarah Levenger]

Oh my gosh, you're 100%.

[Kevin]

You know, if you're bringing like a plastic bottle of whiskey to. On your backpacking trip, like, just drink it out of a plastic bottle. Right. Like, but if you're gonna buy, like, if you're going to buy or like a box of wine bag, bladder, whatever, like, knock yourself out. But like, if you're going to bring, you know, if you want to enjoy something nice from like a, A craft distiller or your, you know, you know, your favorite bourbon or a nice bottle of wine. Like, we wanted to create a product that like, basically allowed you to do that in like a very sophisticated refine. Yeah, really sophisticated and refined manner. But like, it's drinkware, Right. Like, it's an enormous market.

[Sarah Levenger]

So massive. Well, that's such a good call out. Behaviorally, you're not going after the people who are bringing like PBR, right?

[Kevin]

Oh, 100.

[Sarah Levenger]

We're not going after people that are bringing like, just like a six pack of Bud, you know, to their camping. You're actually going after people who are like, I purposefully brought like.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Something nice.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah. This really nice table that we can like all eat around. Like, I have fairy lights that I hang up in the trees.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Sarah Levenger]

Like, there's an experience that's just a different, like, type of camper, type of. Yeah.

[Kevin]

I mean, I think it's just anyone really that, that, you know, feels that, you know, what it is they share around the campfire or what it is they share, you know, at the picnic, like, kind of is an elevated reflection of themselves and like.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yes.

[Kevin]

Of the experience in general. Right. Like, we're kind of all about like, you know, creating elevating moments, creating meaningful moments in ordinary things, but just like allowing, you know, what you're drinking. I mean, like, let's be honest, like, it's like shoes and what you're drinking are like kind of the identity things in the world. Right, Right.

[Sarah Levenger]

Like, so those two elements.

[Kevin]

Right. There's like some clothes too, but like shoes and what you're drinking is kind of like the thing that like says, like, who you are to a certain extent. And so.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah, so funny.

[Kevin]

We just have kind of a unique approach there. But it's such a big market, like.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

And we are a small, you know, we're a small but fast growing brand. But like, we're still kind of just discovering what that means to people, like, different types of people and, like, what that lifestyle is evolving into from this, like, core backcountry, you know, whiskey bottle and mason jar, you know, impetus. Right?

[Sarah Levenger]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kevin]

Not even sure if that's the right word.

[Sarah Levenger]

Actually, 100% you used it correctly. So. Okay, so let's dive deep into this now because you have the. I can totally see the vision. You're like, I see it. It's like a hundred percent there. It's very strong. I know what I want to put out into the world. How do we do this is the question. Because I get this. I get asked this all the time by everybody. It's like, okay, we know what we want to say and we know what we're trying to communicate. How do we communicate that? So we've talked a little bit about, like, lifestyle tends to build a little bit more brand than just straight products do. We could sell like a super fancy flask and just be like, here it is. Like, good luck with whatever you want to use it for. But you guys have attached yourselves to a very specific type of lifestyle, a very specific angle of camper, outdoorsy, like, you know, people who are out doing stuff in the world. So we're not going after the fishermen. We're not going after, like, backpackers per se. It's possible that they.

[Kevin]

I mean, we're. We're going after all of them. But it's. It's like you. It's like level of. Of, you know, level importance, like level of impact. Right. You know? Yeah. And. And there's a way to talk to all of them. I think the. But, you know, we have to kind of like, we're currently like, probing our way into different ones. Right. The reality is, is, like, core outdoor alone, like campers is not going to be the only use case for this business. Like, even though we're kind of like started there. But yeah, now our goal and that was kind of like our whole path to kind of finding you right, was, you know, we had this like, kind of home run moment two years ago or a year and a half ago. And like, we're able to scale into that really well. But like, by the end of last year, I was looking, looking out, and like, we weren't. There was no plateau. Like, I didn't.

[Sarah Levenger]

You guys were doing.

[Kevin]

But I could like, sense the plateau, like, over the horizon where I was.

[Sarah Levenger]

Like, yes, that's a real phenomenon.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Like, you know, you can just start to feel it. Like, the spidey senses start tingling as, like, especially Like a ddc, like, you know, meta driven marketer. Like you, you know, really trying to, you know, find ideas and triple down on those ideas and scale into them and like, yeah, toward, like, as we're going into Q4, like, we're ripping, having a great year and I'm like, yeah, but like next year I'm not. Like, I'm out of ideas. Like, you know, and you just kind of get stuck in a rut. Like when you're in your own little brand world, you can get into the rut and like, you know, I think our team came up with like an amazing way to like scale creative and scale, like create this illusion of creative diversity and whatever. Like, just like everyone says you should do. But like we, by the end of the year it was like, man, we're saying a lot of, you know, we're saying it to different people, but we're saying the same thing. Like, yep, you know, I don't know how many times I was like the all in one adventure, ready flat. It's like, okay, I'm over and over.

[Sarah Levenger]

And over and over.

[Kevin]

Yeah, it's still an effective line. Not going to get rid of it, but boy, I'm sick of that being the first thing that always comes to my mind. Right?

[Sarah Levenger]

Shout out, though. Like, shout out to the founders of this brand because they hired a very good marketer. This is okay. And this is what I look for in every single marketer that I try and like link up with. Mostly because you noticed something, right? You have like spidey senses where everyone else is seeing success. Like, look at how good we're doing. It's Q4. Like, we're exploding. We're doing so well. Meanwhile, poor Kevin's over here. Like, oh, something's coming. Like, I'm a little nervous. Like, we're rinsing the same message over and over and eventually that rinsing of message is not going to work.

[Kevin]

So, yeah, 100%.

[Sarah Levenger]

I have tactics for you. Do you want to. Do you want to hear how I would like?

[Kevin]

Well, yeah, I mean, you gave us a bunch. Like we, we took. Listen, we took what you gave us and we ran.

[Sarah Levenger]

I'm so excited to hear it. Especially because, like, I can give the information and oftentimes I do, to a lot of different brands and then I'll watch over the course of the next year to see what did they do with it, where did they take it? And some people take and run and it just explains explodes. And then other people, I noticed, they'll test it for A while. And then if they don't figure out one specific angle or if it doesn't hit immediately, they like give up. And I'm like, some of this is, is not testing. Some of this is more like refining, right? Yeah, I'm not testing to see what's working, what's working. It's more like, okay, this is close. We need to get it closer, closer, closer, and just keep bouncing down the road until you get it. So I have three different ways that I think you guys could push farther into this if you wanted.

[Kevin]

So fire away.

[Sarah Levenger]

I get super excited about this stuff. Okay, so three ways to sell lifestyle and not a product. The very first one I think would be really interesting for you guys because Harley Davidson does this. Lulu does this really, really well. Stanley actually did this. And they're very close to your. Your product.

[Kevin]

So you can have a Stanley for yoga class. You just have one of ours for hanging out.

[Sarah Levenger]

I'm like, you actually have a larger group than Stanley did.

[Kevin]

So the core idea is knock yourself out, enjoy that Stanley at the yoga class, and then have one of. When you go hang out, you could have both.

[Sarah Levenger]

You can have everything you want in the world. So first tip, first tactic, create an in group. I think you should always create an in group where like people want to belong to that specific group. So Lululemon's had Lululs, right? They actually created a specific space for people to go to. Harley Davidson had something they called hog, which was Harley owners group. I have never heard of this, but I'm not a Harley like fan, so I had no idea this was even thing. But first thing, the first thing you should do is give your community some sort of a name that pertains to whoever you are. Right. So you guys have high camp in your name, which I just really love that name. Like high camp. It's. It just says what I need it to, which is amazing. And then you can go through and you create all kinds of perks, VIP access, those type of things tactically. But in general, all we're trying to do is encourage people to make content with our products.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Sarah Levenger]

What the group is supposed to do. So Stanley was interesting. Do you know the backstory of Stanley?

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very well.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah. Okay, good. Okay. Yeah. So for anybody who doesn't know Stanley was interested.

[Kevin]

No, I'm not trying to steal anything they're doing. Not at all. No.

[Sarah Levenger]

Everyone feel what Stanley did because they're so smart. So they struggled like they were really going to the point where it was like, we don't even know what we're going to do. We might die in a couple years because, like, we're an old brand. Stanley was around for decades and dec. I mean, generations of Stanley products, they had this one specific, like, mug that was very large, that was not selling very well.

[Kevin]

Right.

[Sarah Levenger]

And they kept trying to push it out there, push it out there, and it just wasn't selling. And then they had one, I guess, one specific mom and mom group in Utah.

[Kevin]

Oh, yeah, the Utah Mafia.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yes, yes. They moms are the real deal moms.

[Kevin]

Oh, Utah moms are the most real deal.

[Sarah Levenger]

They're so intense. This season on the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Welcome. So if you can find a group of people who are intense about their community and put your product in the middle of it, you could explode overnight, quote, unquote, overnight. So Stanley. It took like, probably about 18 months, right? A year to 18 months. And all of a sudden, the entire country had to have a Stanley. Now the funny part was though, the Utah mom became like a trope on Tick Tock because of what Stanley was kind of representing for that mom group. So there was a mom that had a book club in Utah that ordered a bulk order of like 5,000 different pieces of this one specific Stanley mug to give to her book club. So she went out and just like. And I'm. I'm sitting here being like, how 5,000 members in one book club? How the hell did you get that many moms together? That's insane. But she had an in group that she distributed these products to and, like, the rest was history, basically. Because all these moms love this giant Stanley mug. And then they just kept going, like, it just like bounced out into the community. So if you can't find an in group, you should always create one. For you guys, though. I bet you we could find you a group that's already intense about their experiences and like, plop your product right in the middle.

[Kevin]

Yeah. You know, I think that's. That's like as we grow, that's like kind of a direction we're interested. It's actually come up twice for me this week.

[Sarah Levenger]

Has it really?

[Kevin]

It's kind of funny. It just is like an idea, like a thought starter.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

And like universe, you know, for, you know, when you're running, when you're trying to grow, you know, these consumer product brands, like the spidey sense next plateau always has to be like, yep, your fear. Like your fear factor. Right. And so it's like, you know, it's funny when the other when the other person who was like, you know, here's this community element you could develop, I was like, yeah, I've heard it. Like, I've obviously heard the concept. But like, for whatever reason, like, my spidey senses are like, that's not a bad idea. Like, I'm going to put that one in my back.

[Sarah Levenger]

Strong Spidey senses. Yeah, Force is strong with this one.

[Kevin]

And then here we are two days, a day later. Literally a day later.

[Sarah Levenger]

So now.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sarah Levenger]

You need any more? Like just nudges from the universe? It's going to.

[Kevin]

Yeah, exactly. Doing this, you know, I don't know if it's like tomorrow, but it's like, yeah, that's, you know, interesting. You know, there's something there. Right.

[Sarah Levenger]

And the weird part is I think a lot of people will take this sentiment of like, go drop your product into a crowd and think, oh, I need to go find influencers. I don't think this is what that is because Stanley did not drop their product into an influencer base. Like, I don't think this mom had a ton of content that she was producing. I think she had like a little following because she had.

[Kevin]

Yeah. And I think they had. There's a lot of like that kind of, you know, that early day influencer universe going on over in Utah. I don't know if you've. Like, whenever I go to Salt Lake, I look around and I'm like, you're like, oh, God, I see why this is all working, you know, like a little different.

[Sarah Levenger]

Utah has its own culture over there.

[Kevin]

I mean, it's great, like, especially for. There's a lot of, a lot of consumers. There's a lot of, a lot of deals. And like, just like that community element that you're talking about, like, really exists there. So it's, it's just a way that you can kind of like amplify and then now into like every other tool we have as marketers. It's like that goes to, you know, TikTok and whatever.

[Sarah Levenger]

This is why I, a pro tip for anybody just to like, wrap that segment up. Like, if you're going to go find somebody and a community to inject your products into, don't go for, like, volume. You don't need to go for volume. You need to go for intensity. Don't go find an influencer that has 5 million subscribers and none of them are interested in what she has to sell. Go find someone who has 5,000 who are like, we are the Utah Moms. And then just expand up. Okay. Oh, I digress. I could go into that all day long. So second thing that I have for you guys is I think you should pick a content style and then go heavy, hard on it, like double, triple down. Great example of this is Red Bull, right? So when they came into the market, they were trying to compete with Coke, like Coca Cola, and they decided because Red Bull gives you wings and gives you energy that they were going to push content that was over exaggerated levels of energy, right? So they became like extreme sports culture, right? So I don't know what it is about Red Bull. And they just shove like giant like not usable planes and boats and things off of ledges. And people love it. Like, I don't understand it at all, but they took whatever their core concept was and then they just exaggerated it. So I want to know, selling like this feeling that you guys are creating, what's your core concept? And then how can we exaggerate it to the point where it's easy for you to create content around it?

[Kevin]

Yeah, that one I have to think about a little bit more because it hadn't really occurred to me yet. I mean, I can just tell you that like, you know, obviously we make a pretty upmarket product, right? And I'm definitely starting to feel again, whatever these Spidey senses are, are, you know, we. I mean, our initial success in the last couple years, 18 months, whatever, was largely built on the back of like pretty. Some great creator video, right? And like super casual, like the standard native stuff that you see. You know, some of it was brief, some of it wasn't. Like we really, we really dove in there. But like, I'm already this year seeing how like the elevated nature of our content, like bringing that quality up a little bit, is also is paying dividends. It's also like, it's also like something we're getting more proud of, right? Like being able to do something a little higher end, a little with a little more polish, but like using kind of like this, the psychological tricks and tips, but also. And some like doctor like stuff, but like integrating it into something a little bit more, I don't know, quote, unquote brand. And like, you know, I have this thing where it's like, you know, it's one thing to have an idea, but it's another thing to be like really excited about an idea and in enlisting other people to be really excited about the idea to then like execute. Like, I'm fully think that like, you know, the modern marketing, it's like 30% strategy, 70% execution, and the upside is all realized is like, on. The upside is all realized on the execution side, almost like.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

And so, like.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Kevin]

To, like, create excitement amongst, like, the people you're working with, amongst the community that you're building. To do something to, like, execute at a better level is like the biggest upside you can kind of, like, solve. So, you know, I think that's, you know, I would imagine from the Red Bull example you just gave that there's like a little bit of that. Like, how fun. Like, everyone, you know, when I was growing, starting out as a magazine editor, like, I wanted to work for Red Bull, right? Like, they.

[Sarah Levenger]

Everybody did.

[Kevin]

Like, they wanted to work for. Right?

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

You got a bunch of people who are, like, super fired up to do these, like, crazy harebrained ideas and, like, wow, it works. Shocker. You know, like, and it's like, well, you get good people super stoked to do something at a really high level and do it again, and they're proud of what they're putting out. It's like, yeah. How does that not work? You know, Like.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yes. Well, for you guys, the interesting part is you're selling a little bit of luxury and a little bit of just straight up cool experiences.

[Kevin]

100%.

[Sarah Levenger]

Can you do. And they're all outdoors, which is fan frickin tastic, because the outdoors is limitless. Can we take a flask and put it on the top of, like, Mount Everest?

[Kevin]

Can we take a flask?

[Sarah Levenger]

That's what I'm saying. You give it to somebody who's doing that and be like, hey, when you take this up there, could you just take a picture for it? You know, you never know. People might be like, sure, I don't care. But I think it'd be interesting to push into this luxury thing that you've got going on.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that's really where we're. We're most excited, where we see the most. Most green, like, the lifestyle, you know, as we've evolved, as we've grown up, I feel that the lifestyle, you know, there's a timelessness to the lifestyle. Right? So that's one thing. So you got to kind of like, play under this. And Mike or one of the co founders kind of like, scolded me the other day on this, and I really appreciated it because I can be a little bit, like, off in La La land.

[Sarah Levenger]

We get excited as Mark.

[Kevin]

Yeah. And he was like, but it's like the time, you know, remind me, like, the timeless element of this, of what we're Trying to build here. Right. And, and you know, so you got, you got to play within that bounds. Like there are bounds there. But like, you know, when you're, when you're thinking about luxury and timeless, or when you're thinking about like meaningful experience, experience in timeless, like the lifestyle of, of that, like you have a lot to play with. Right. Like, there's, there's like family dynamics. That's really interesting. There's, there's friendship dynamics, there's community dynamics. And like, you know, it might not be Everest, but I think we could lean into, I think we could lean into this kind of, this more like interpersonal relationship as like our.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yes.

[Kevin]

Like you know, extreme sport. Right. For lack of a better term to pull this back.

[Sarah Levenger]

Oh my gosh. There's so many different things you could do. You guys could start a cooking show, a cooking channel in a high end luxury. Yes. You guys could start all kinds. I mean, you could do outdoor decorating. I mean, there's an entire industry that's just like, we create fairy picnics where like it's, it's no joke. It's like the nicest. They have like golden plates and like really like pretty beautifully. I mean, just go on pictures and you could see people pin this all the time. Like luxury, high end eating, dining, gourmet experiences is like big business especially.

[Kevin]

Yeah. But it's all rooted in trying to make the experience you want to have with the people you love. Right. So like actually kind of like, you know, that's just that all that stuff is just an extension of this like person to person connection. And yeah, to me, that's almost the lifestyle that we, you know, that's the most important component of the lifestyle we're trying to lean into. You know, it's not just like a thing. It's, you know, we don't want to be the thing that you have 20 of in your, in your, in your closet. Like, we want to be the thing that you bring out every single time.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

That you go hang out with the people you care about. Right.

[Sarah Levenger]

Like, and then it's something you give to people. Like as soon as you guys are ready to leave. Like, I have one. Now you have one. Yes. It's very, it's that in crowd that we were talking about before. Oh, okay. Now I'm just like, all my ideas just exploding. I'm like, you could do so many things. Okay, last one though. I think it'd be interesting. And this might, I don't know. Some founders are not into this, but I get really excited about it. If you're a luxury product, I tell people you should double your price. If you are a luxury product, double your price. That's what Yeti did extremely well.

[Kevin]

Yeah.

[Sarah Levenger]

And they were able to produce all kinds of crazy things. That's what Stanley did. Stanley cup like mugs are not cheap compared to like a different type of mug that you could just buy a Walmart for like $10. Right now you guys like I said are top high end of the market. But I'd be interested to see if you produced like an even more luxury version of what you offer and double the price and see what that does for perception.

[Kevin]

Well, I don't want to give any away, any trade.

[Sarah Levenger]

Okay. So I was going to say I think I might be preemptively giving too much away. But so for, yes, for anybody that's doing luxury stuff you gotta have something that's very scarce, very premium and has a story behind it to show why. This is like high end premium. This is the best of the best in the entire industry. I think if I were to start any sort of DTC brand I would try and be the top of the industry. I would be the, the most expensive version that you can get.

[Kevin]

Yeah, I mean unfortunately there's some like realities to unit economics that makes that which is kind of unfortunate. You know, you know, hopefully that evolves in the future. But yeah, I mean there's certainly a lot of interest in that, that side of things. And I think you know, I, I, from a lifestyle perspective like kind of bringing it back here, it's like luxury for the sake of luxury is not all that interesting.

[Sarah Levenger]

Right.

[Kevin]

But, but like luxury or, or you know we use the term elevated a little bit more which I'm actually love but I'm also a little bit like a lot. We got to come up with another idea.

[Sarah Levenger]

We're using that a lot.

[Kevin]

Yeah, let's rent something out, you know, like, you know that's maybe not fully luxury. Right. But you know, it's rooted in again in like the feeling that this more elevated product, luxury product can give to you. The feeling you get when you give it to someone else and they're like wow, that person's an amazing gift giver or that person really knows me. Right. So like it's not just for the sake of we can put a higher price and make it with a nicer material. It's like, well the, the goal with that is that, that you know, the person feels like, you know, competent esteem, like you know, I'm going To roll down. You want me to roll down the list of the NLP here? Like Shameless Blood? Yeah, yeah. Shameless Blood. Yeah. I mean, it was. It was, yeah. I mean, so that's, that's the one thing I hesitate with. Like, kind of just like forcing your way up market just because it's like 100. I mean, anyone can make a nicer, fancier product, but like, yeah, what does that really deliver, you know, to that experience?

[Sarah Levenger]

If you're gonna deliver a higher quality product, you better have the experience to.

[Kevin]

Back it up 1,000%. I mean, and that's, that's the lifestyle, right? Like what we're trying to get here comes in.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah, I'd be interested to see what you guys can do this year. If you can become like high camp, could become the next Stanley by doing.

[Kevin]

Things that we're talking about one step at a time. We're a pretty small brand. Like, we got a long way to go.

[Sarah Levenger]

Stanley didn't know any of what they know. Now they're this particular product. Stanley Mug was a small mug. It was a small product. It was like, nothing's really happening in this particular section over here. But they did basically all these things, right? So they went and they sold to an in group. They went and had content made specifically for their cultural model, which was like the Utah Mom. And then they just, you know, slowly, over time increased prices for larger models or, you know, different experiences with it. They also then started adding, like, accessories. I don't know if you've seen this.

[Kevin]

But like, yeah, oh, yeah.

[Sarah Levenger]

Like snap things on it. I don't even know. It's the strangest thing I've ever seen, but fascinating stuff. And for you guys, I think you could probably do this with your product just by being very strategic, right? Being very careful and calculated with what are we, what are we going to stand for and what are we not? I think that's the piece of it, which I feel like I need you more content on. It's actually better as a brand to decide who you are not than trying to decide who you are, because who you are is going to morph and.

[Kevin]

Change depending on what you know. I, you know, I don't know if you've noticed, but a lot of the, you know, a lot of the stainless steel drinkware brands in the world, like, they're a pretty similar aesthetic. I mean, it's roughly the same product, right?

[Sarah Levenger]

It's like, basically.

[Kevin]

And you know, I'll hand it to these guys running this thing, like. And like I said, I Got scolded the other day. Like, we aren't trying to be that right. Like, I'm so glad they pointed that out, you know, and like, I actually have a lot of respect for how they, they approach it. And, you know, they keep me in check because I'm a kind of like, closet weirdo, always willing to try. Okay, try this, that and the other thing. And, you know, but yeah, it's like, yes, that we aren't trying to make a Tumblr a quencher. Like, we're not. That's not. No interest in making that right. And we have no interest in, like, you know, presenting our brand this, you know, the way that all other the stainless steel drinkware brand is. And, you know, we have a ton of interest in, like, being modern and with it and understanding the mediums by which we can market this brand. But, like, you know, I know we've, we've kind of wrapped on this before, but, like, you know, there's an underlying reality that, like, growth, the growth hack component is kind of faded away and you. The only, your only path to success. Except if you're, like, fully committed to TikTok shops and just don't care and just trying to print money. Like, if you are not, if that's your model, knock yourself out. I have no comment for you. But if that's not your model, like, you have to build a durable brand.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah, you have.

[Kevin]

And you have to, like, you have to go talk to your performance marketer and be like, now you're. You're a brand marketer now. You always.

[Sarah Levenger]

Brand marketer.

[Kevin]

You always were. You just didn't know it, you know, like, like. And we all kind of, you know, so that's kind of my, my where my, like, over the last couple months or 12 months is like, how my mentality around it has, has shifted. And like, you know, especially as we've been, you know, we felt this plateau coming, we never hit it, and then kind of were able to, like, break through it preemptively. And now it's like there's like, open ocean everywhere. Right?

[Sarah Levenger]

Yes. Yeah.

[Kevin]

Yeah, right. Like, once you kind of like, realize how you can resonate, you know, different means to resonate with people. Different means to, like, you know, messages that, you know, may or may not work. Who cares? They're new, they're fresh, they're, they're. They're potentially talking to a new person, potentially tugging on a different heartstring, but they're all, like, connected to that one. The core of the, you know, the Lifestyle, the experience, which for us is a relational social component. Like, oh, that's insane. Right?

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah. You guys really are a memory builder. Like, your core message is, we, we are a memory builder. Yes. Oh, okay. I cannot wait to see what you do with it this year and how you expand. Because some of this comes down to, like, once you see it, you can't unsee it 100%.

[Kevin]

I mean, it's freaking crazy. Like, once. Once my brain, like, unlocked, I, like, all of a sudden it works better. Like, you know, like.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yes. Once you make those neural connections, it's like.

[Kevin]

Yeah, yeah, it's easy. Oh, wow. That email headline just doesn't work as well as this one. You know, And I've been like, using the same dang email headlines just because, like, you know, like, this is a high paced business. Like, it's about speed. Especially in the early days when you're a smaller brand. Like, you are. You are trying to humor and like, get stuff out the door and as fast as possible.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah.

[Kevin]

You know, and like, that's like one of my core skill sets. But it, I kind of noticed it backed me into this, like, this, like, messaging Eddie, you know.

[Sarah Levenger]

Yeah. You just keep going around and.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Where it's like, oh, here we are, comfortable on the side of the river, but, like, we're trying to go down the river to over there. Like, I don't know how to get out of the eddy.

[Sarah Levenger]

Get out of this, Eddie.

[Kevin]

Yeah. Like, yes.

[Sarah Levenger]

So I feel that in my soul. Okay. Oh, I could talk about this all day. We're already 35 minutes in. Where can people find you if they would like to follow what you're doing at high camp and hopefully connect with you so they can learn more about, like, how you guys are doing all this stuff?

[Kevin]

I'm at Loveland ski area on Saturdays skiing. So you can find me there.

[Sarah Levenger]

Meet me there.

[Kevin]

Meet me there. I'll usually be in the Raspberry having a beer. You can follow high camp. I mean, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter or whatever, but no one really follows me and it's totally fine.

[Sarah Levenger]

You need followers. No, no, no.

[Kevin]

We can if you want random stuff, occasionally written at midnight because that's when I'm usually up doing it. Knock yourself out. But if you want to come, come hang out. Loveland ski area Saturdays in the bar.

[Sarah Levenger]

I love Loveland. That's like one of the best places to ski in Colorado. If you want to follow Sarah at Sarah Levenger everywhere you consume content. Sometimes I post on some of them. Mostly I'm on Twitter, Twitter and LinkedIn. Check out Tether Insights. TetherInsights IO. We are currently using a whole lot of different, really interesting research panels to uncover all this stuff that you need to know about your customers, specifically their emotional needs, psychographic needs, their behavioral needs. All kinds of different things that you are going to need to be able to build a good brand in 2025 and beyond. Because like we've been saying, I don't know that performance marketing is going to be it. I think we might be. We need more skill set in the board.

[Kevin]

We're all brand marketing.

[Sarah Levenger]

We're all brand marketers.

[Kevin]

You heard it have always been. We just didn't know it.

[Sarah Levenger]

I know now you do because you heard it on my podcast.

[Kevin]

It was really helpful to us. I'm gonna just do a shameless plug. Super helpful. Thank you, Sarah. It was great, great. A great exercise working with you and our team is like super energized on the back end of it. So it's awesome.

[Sarah Levenger]

Thank you for coming. This was a great episode.

[Kevin]

Brain Driven Brands is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast network and is presented by Tether Insights. For more information, go to tetherinsights IO.