Podcast Title: Brain Driven Brands
Host: Sarah Levinger
Episode: 5 Things Marketers Need to Stop Believing (Feat. Joanna Wallace)
Release Date: August 14, 2025
Introduction
In this engaging episode of Brain Driven Brands, host Sarah Levinger is joined by returning guest Joanna Wallace to delve into the evolving landscape of marketing beliefs. Together with co-host Nate, they unpack the outdated notions that modern marketers need to abandon to stay ahead in the competitive e-commerce arena. The discussion is candid, humorous, and rich with actionable insights, making it a must-listen for marketers seeking to refine their strategies.
1. The Shift from Emotional to Logical Marketing
Timestamp: [03:03]
Sarah kicks off the conversation by addressing a significant shift she's observed in marketing strategies. Traditionally, emotional and identity-focused marketing has been a cornerstone for many brands. However, Sarah shares her recent frustration with a travel-related brand where emotional marketing failed to resonate despite her extensive experience with similar brands.
- Sarah: "I've worked for, like, 150 some brands over the course of the last four years. This is the one brand I can't get emotion to hit on, and it's making me upset." [03:03]
Joanna and Nate chime in, suggesting that consumers may have already internalized the emotional aspects of certain products before reaching the brand's ecosystem. This implies that marketers might need to pivot towards facilitating faster, more logical decision-making processes.
- Joanna: "I think we're all a little bit dead inside. Maybe emotion doesn't work anymore." [04:31]
- Sarah: "Sometimes your customers have front loaded the emotion so much that like they don't need convincing when they get to your ecosystem." [05:09]
2. Understanding Customer Intent and Behavior
Timestamp: [09:07]
Nate introduces a pivotal concept: customers often purchase based on subconscious emotions that they can't explicitly articulate. Reflecting on his own purchasing behavior, he realizes that many purchases are driven by underlying emotions rather than logical reasoning.
- Nate: "I used to think that customers knew why they were buying things, and I think very often they don't. No, not in the moment and, like, not consciously." [08:42]
Sarah echoes this sentiment, emphasizing that as marketers, understanding the deeper, often unspoken motivations behind consumer behavior is crucial.
- Sarah: "I'm more emotion everywhere. We should all be like in our fifi's all the time." [05:09]
3. The Evolution of Attention Spans in the Digital Age
Timestamp: [24:31]
The discussion shifts to the topic of attention spans in an era dominated by platforms like TikTok and the rise of long-form content such as podcasts. Joanna raises an interesting paradox: while short-form content demands quick engagement, there's also a growing appetite for in-depth storytelling.
- Joanna: "So what is that divide of we suddenly have so much attention and so little at the same time?" [23:20]
Nate counters the common belief that attention spans are diminishing, arguing that attention is more about engagement intensity and intent rather than duration.
- Nate: "I think attention is intent. That's all it comes down to." [25:33]
This leads to a broader understanding that marketers need to tailor their content strategies based on the context and the audience's intent at any given moment.
4. The Importance of Authenticity and Presentation in Branding
Timestamp: [19:23]
The conversation delves into the significance of brand presentation, particularly regarding punctuation and typographical accuracy. Joanna shares her personal struggle with balancing perfection in marketing materials versus embracing a more authentic, "native" look that resonates with consumers.
- Joanna: "I personally lose trust in a brand when I see sloppiness like that." [21:43]
Sarah and Nate discuss the fine line between maintaining professionalism and adopting a more relaxed, relatable brand voice. They highlight examples where deliberate imperfections can sometimes enhance authenticity and connection with the audience.
- Nate: "I think there's a way to speak that people are used to communicating in without, like, deliberately making typos and shit." [19:54]
- Sarah: "If it's coming from the brand page, button it up. From the consumer side, fuck it up." [20:44]
5. Adapting Marketing Strategies to Cultural and Economic Shifts
Timestamp: [28:26]
In the concluding segment, Sarah emphasizes the necessity for marketers to remain adaptable, continuously evolving their strategies in response to cultural, societal, and economic changes. The trio discusses the importance of not clinging to outdated practices and being open to innovation.
- Sarah: "Marketing changes. It shifts depending on what's in the market... So your job is to continuously evolve." [28:10]
Joanna likens this adaptability to fashion trends, noting how initial resistance can give way to acceptance and adoption over time.
- Joanna: "It's kind of like fashion trends to me. The first few times I see it, this is hideous. And then I've seen it enough where I'm like, I could get those dad shoes I could wear." [29:28]
Notable Quotes
- Sarah Levinger: "We cry on this podcast sometimes, only rarely when we're just kind of fed up and done." [00:53]
- Nate: "So we measure this kind of... RPM revenue per thousand impressions or thousand views." [26:26]
- Joanna Wallace: "My dog that keeps coming into frame, he's sold life insurance. He's been in ads before, and he also has decided that he agrees with us." [28:37]
Conclusion
This episode of Brain Driven Brands offers a deep dive into the shifting paradigms of modern marketing. Sarah, Joanna, and Nate provide valuable insights into the move from emotion-driven to logic-supported strategies, the nuanced nature of customer attention and intent, and the critical need for authenticity and adaptability in branding. By challenging long-held beliefs and embracing the ever-evolving market dynamics, marketers can better navigate the complexities of today's consumer landscape.
For more insights and to follow Joanna Wallace, visit LinkedIn, Twitter, or her consulting business Creativerx Consulting. To connect with Sarah Levinger, follow her at @TetherInsightsIO.
Join us next time on Brain Driven Brands as we continue to explore the cutting-edge strategies that drive 9-figure brands to success.