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Brain Driven Brands
AMA: Creative Strategy Edition (Feat. Paige Phillips)
00:32:45
On this episode of Brain Driven Brands, we dive deep into the waters of creative strategy with a talented strategist who’s fronting one of the largest brands in the industry (and doing it with a great sense of humor). We talk about: How to hire...
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- [00:04]
Sarah
So hi, I'm Sarah, I teach psychology and ed. Today we are chatting with lovely Paige, Paige Phillips. Okay, so for all of the audience here, I usually everybody starts all of these interviews with like, who are you? What do you do, what's your title? I don't want to know any of that. I want to know, I want to specifically from Paige. What do you like to do in this industry? You're a DTC player, you work for a very big brand and I'll leave it up to you how much detail you want to give. But I want to know like, what specifically is like fires you up about this specific industry?
- [00:39]
Paige Phillips
What fires me up? I find ads in general to be an absolutely fascinating space. I, I'm a creative strategist. I do have a lifetime long passion and career as an actress, which meant I was broke and unemployed about 85% of the year. So my perspective comes from a little bit different because I haven't still do so many commercials. And there was something that clicked in my head one time where going into an audition as an actress, I'm like, I'm selling a feeling.
- [01:12]
Sarah
Yes. Oh, I agree with that 100%.
- [01:14]
Paige Phillips
So I love to bring that into the ad space too because I feel like a lot of ads, I feel like a lot of magic can be taken out of the marketing place because people, and it's part of my job too, it's like they want the numbers and the data behind it and so they, they do the safe thing by always doing that and to take risks, you really have to convince them otherwise. But then you're taking out of the magic of like speaking to people in a new way as opposed to like cut and repeat because this is what's going to sell. So I love being able to like play around and find new ideas of and new creative ways to express the same message in a different way in a more authentic way, in a way. So yeah, that makes it more fun.
- [01:55]
Sarah
Well, and I think they're calling it at the very beginning is like spot on. The fact that this is like the magic of emotion. Like we're trying to science our way into generating an emotion inside a person through a screen. So there's not like, there's, it's a lot art and there is a lot of science to it because obviously we have metrics behind it and we're putting it through a platform that has a mathematical reason to serve this ad to this specific person. So my next question to you would be, you're an actress, so do you have formal training in this or you just like real good at it? Just because Both.
- [02:25]
Paige Phillips
It was one of the things that every. I was kind of put in it as a kid and everyone saw it and rooted for me really young. And then there was a certain point where I was like, you know, I want to master something. So I went to school for it.
- [02:36]
Sarah
I love it. Okay. Yeah. So you have, you have formal training this, and you're just real good at it. Just that's talent from an acting standpoint. Then when it comes to ads, I typically see these brands that are like, they, they generate good relationships with their content creators, with their UGC creators, but they have a difficult time directing. I've noticed that where like the emotion in the ads is what gets cut off because we've taught our UGC creators to act, which is not. I don't think that's the same as like actually emoting. Am I wrong there? No, not at all.
- [03:08]
Paige Phillips
You know, I, I did a ugc. I still have good relationships with some of the old agencies that I worked for at the prior marketing agency I worked at. And just because I'm an actress, I was put in a lot of their UGC ads or I would see the script and I'm like, let me just do this. So I get called back a lot and it's so funny. I did one like two weekends ago and even seeing the script and it's like the same script. But so I, as an actress, I do a lot of things. I'm like, one for me, one for you. I'll say your lines, I'll do the like the cheesy things you see, but I'm like, this isn't how I would say that. And I cannot express this enough when it comes to hiring talent. Sure, get people that have the numbers. That, that does help. But also, and this is the right person for the job. Is the right person for the job. When you watch this person, do they inspire you? Do they make you laugh? Would you want to like, look at them and let them speak about air? And you could like, they could sell you air. It's like you get good talent. Good talent get versatile talent. Like I've realized also, I remember back in the day I bought a bikini and I put the bikini on. I was like, I don't look like the model. But that's how, that's how powerful it can be. Sometimes people see, want to see themselves as that person. So it's like, like obviously pretty self sex sells, all that stuff sells. But it's like you can't put a price or an image on. Just a really good piece of personality.
- [04:32]
Sarah
Yeah. Oh, well. And this is something that I've been working with brands on for the longest time. And it's interesting because you can almost. You can feel the humans on the other side of the brand. And this, this is something I'm noticing with the best brands in the world. You could feel the human on the other side that's generating all of the ads for them. I think Liquid Death is probably one of the brands I bring up way too much. But their ads in particular, I can tell the person on the other side of that screen is very intelligent. Not just funny, but has delivery skill.
- [05:00]
Paige Phillips
Sets that I'm like, dream creative job is working for Liquid. So I feel you. I'm like checking every so often. I'm like. I'm like, nothing.
- [05:10]
Sarah
Liquid Death, Come on. But yeah, I don't know who it. Somebody needs to find out who's actually writing the ads, because it's got to be a copywriter or creative strategist or somebody. But they're. They're delivery on. The humor that they're actually using is massive. Like, they're so good at it. And it's. I find a lot of brands try and copy them and the delivery is not the same. And that's something that communication comes down to. Not just what you're saying, but how you say it is way more important. I think 80% of our jobs is the how. Oh, yeah. 20% is the method. But 80% is like, how you actually deliver whatever you're trying to say. So your experience, obviously you've been a UGC creator, you've been an actress, you've actually done the work of delivery. What would you say then to brands who are like, okay, we have a good UGC creator. They're decent, like numbers. How do we teach them to deliver our message better? Is there a way to do that? That's right.
- [06:04]
Paige Phillips
I would say pre production is everything. Get a pulse, check on the personality. Get a pulse, check on, like, their sense of humor. Are they dry? Are they very classy? Are they like, not okay kind of being like, more silly or not? Like, just get a major pulse, check on who they are. And again, like, like some brands really just the generic basic white girl freaking works. And it works for them. But true. Just really get a pulse, check on who this person is. And not only that, get a pulse, check on kind of like, if you could do anything for this, like, how would you see yourself creating this? You know, it's like again, one for me, one for you. It's like, okay, this is also what we want. But also we would love to see what you could do with this.
- [06:47]
Sarah
Yeah. So interesting. I think that also comes down to like how well does, can this person pull out emotion out of themselves.
- [06:55]
Paige Phillips
Yeah.
- [06:55]
Sarah
Which is difficult to do if you've never been trained to do it, which a lot of these UGC creators are self taught. So it makes sense that we struggled for years and years to find good people. I think now the, the market has kind of evened out. But let's talk about this, like selecting the right format for the person that has that skill set. Because you talked about the fact that what kind, what does this person feel like? Are they classy? Are they like super silly? Like who are they? Do you find that there's a specific medium that you like lean towards just because you like it and you're good at it?
- [07:23]
Paige Phillips
Yeah, in particular.
- [07:24]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [07:26]
Paige Phillips
Well yeah, comedy obviously, because that's what.
- [07:29]
Sarah
We'Re going to talk about. But yeah, yeah.
- [07:32]
Paige Phillips
How do you know?
- [07:33]
Sarah
Is it just like it's fun for you or like you just like you deliver better? I mean, how would somebody know this is the medium that I should probably do the most.
- [07:43]
Paige Phillips
Enough people are genuinely laughing.
- [07:47]
Sarah
You just get enough laughs that you're.
- [07:48]
Paige Phillips
Like, that's probably the one.
- [07:50]
Sarah
Okay, that's, I see that.
- [07:52]
Paige Phillips
You know, you, you know when you're funny and when you're not, there's a big difference between being like cringey funny and actual funny. I, I, I would say my specialty is that I also, I love blending in humor and depth and heart. You know, like you could be funny but you can still like, like relatable. Comedy for me was a huge thing. Like I would just listen a lot and I would start to pick up on like another person was complaining about that, another person was complaining about that. So there's another person. I'm like, this is a common thing. And it's like I do not mind being the face to showcase, like haha, we all suck in this way or something. You know what I mean?
- [08:30]
Sarah
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [08:31]
Paige Phillips
So relatable. Because a lot of people again want to see themselves in that. It's this thought that they've had this thing that maybe they're embarrassed about but then like being bold enough to go and just be like showcasing it too or like making it in a funny way and making it a funny skit. So people are just kind of like, oh my God, this also happens to me. It's like yeah, not that special.
- [08:50]
Sarah
Everyone. Everyone. Yes. I feel like, too, that the brands, they try and do this, but the piece that they're missing is the relatable point. And I, I tell people this all the time. Anytime I get the question of, like, how do I bring down CPA in my ad account? I always tell them, you got to put more situations into your ad account. And people are like, what does that mean? And I'm like, you're. You're not putting enough specific situations. And I'm not talking angles. I don't want to see, like, moms who knit. Right. Situations. Knitters experience something very, like, intense that only happens in their community. Right. And I don't know what that is because I don't knit. But, like, exactly. Do you stab yourself a lot? Like, maybe you slip a stitch? I know that's a thing, right? Like, is that difficult for you when that happens? Like, there's very specific things that every community actually experiences. That's only for that community. And I tell people very, very good example of this. My husband used to fly private planes, like, teeny ones, and he absolutely loved it. But something that came out from that community that I had no idea was a thing is oftentimes when they fill up the fuel, they'll leave the gas cap off. Like, it'll just be off. And I'm like, isn't that. Yes, it fly away and does the fuel, like, come out of the tank? And he was like, oh, no. Like, nothing happens. But, like, they just. Sometimes you just leave it off.
- [10:04]
Paige Phillips
And I was like, fun.
- [10:06]
Sarah
That sounds.
- [10:07]
Paige Phillips
Because I forget.
- [10:08]
Sarah
I guess they just. They fill it up and then they forget to, like, screw it back on. Similar to how, like, cars, like, some people just drive away from the gas station and like, the gas static stuff. So I'm like, I had no idea that was even a thing. But if you are a pilot and you wanted to make a parody that would only bring in pilots to your ad, something I would do is like, cascap gets left up. Who knew that that was the thing? So this is why I think, though, that brands struggle with it because they try and go for problem solution, and they think that that is relatable. Here's your problem. Here's the. I'm like, no, this is where, when.
- [10:42]
Paige Phillips
I came into my company, I think I started to help us shift a new narrative quite simply by Worm holding down Reddit, by Worm holding down the comment section by actually seeing the voice of the people and seeing what they were complaining the most about. The skepticism around the Brand that I work for was astounding to me. Like, everybody wants to know. It's like, is it as good as it sings? So it's like, let's make an ad just completely calling that out, like talking to those people, but also have it be with someone. Like, I don't really know about this either, but progressively as the ad goes. Yeah, like they're just kind of like, you know what? This is pretty chill.
- [11:18]
Sarah
Yes, well, and I think injecting some of that realism in there, it's not really relatability. Maybe the word I need to start using is realism. Because I, I think people think I say relatable and they're like, oh well, we just need to put more problem in there. And I'm like, that's not. No, that's not what I'm talking about. Sometimes relatability just is the person that delivered it is relatable. Yeah, that too. And then that, that's all you need. And that they're just a relatable person.
- [11:42]
Paige Phillips
Not only that, I've made a nice little breakthrough with a couple of ads lately and you know, with my job, I have to go through all the footage quite extensively and then I make an edit brief or sometimes if I'm feeling real saucy, I edit myself. Because another thing with comedy, you can say you can make anything funny almost with the right edits. Editing is a saving grace in so many ways. And it's like either sometimes you have the eye for it or you don't. With like specific, specific like punch ins that you might have at a certain moment to like catch the like. Editing is everything. But one thing I really like to do is if there's a little slip up sometimes or like an ad lib off of the side with the actor, like talk to someone off the side. I love to leave that in because it also kind of breaks the fourth wall in a way of like, yeah, this is a human being. This is a human being doing something, you know?
- [12:34]
Sarah
Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that 100%. I also think that a lot of these tactics can be learned by, by studying the organic creators. Because that's something I'm. I'm not ashamed to say. I spend way too much time on TikTok just scrolling down TikTok. But a lot of it is, is studying in my mind because one, I'm just osmosising, like all this interesting stuff. But the other side of it is the organic creators sometimes have a better sense for what hits and which edits to put where. So that their, their content goes farther. Like it has more longevity to it just because they edited it well. So now I'm starting to post on TikTok and it's terrifying. TikTok is scary. Like, I know. I don't like it. It's very terrifying.
- [13:15]
Paige Phillips
Why is it scary for you?
- [13:18]
Sarah
I. I am sensitive to negative feedback. That's. Sarah in general is. I've always been very sensitive to, like, please don't, please don't be mean to me because I'm so sensitive. But on the opposite side, the other piece of it that scares me a little bit is how fast you can grow over there, even with little to no.
- [13:38]
Paige Phillips
Like wild.
- [13:39]
Sarah
Like, you don't have to be an expert in almost anything as long as your content is good. You could go from zero to a million overnight. Literally overnight. Yeah. I'm like, that's scary.
- [13:51]
Paige Phillips
I know it's kind of cool. But it's like, also too. It's like as a, as somebody that, like. And then where do you go from there? It's like, maybe you make a lot, but your plan was never to be famous or anything. So it's kind of like you got a lot of followers. But yeah.
- [14:04]
Sarah
What do you do with it? And I see a lot of organic creators doing that where they don't know what to do with it. So I. Some of the things that the brands have come to me just within the last couple months, honestly is asking, how do I go founder led? Because I keep hearing you need a founder led brand. Founder led bread. That's a big 2025 trend right now.
- [14:21]
Paige Phillips
Yeah.
- [14:22]
Sarah
Founder led brand. So the founders need to be creating content. And I'm like, before you go do that, just make sure your founder wants to become famous.
- [14:31]
Paige Phillips
Yeah.
- [14:32]
Sarah
Kind of a part of this.
- [14:34]
Paige Phillips
And again, it's like the, like the right person for the role is the right person for the role. Maybe your founder is really stale and horrible in front of the camera, you know, and it's like, either you play into that, like, I've seen lovely trends where it's like, it's. It's so funny because they're so bad, but they make it a joke.
- [14:53]
Sarah
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [14:55]
Paige Phillips
But otherwise it's like sometimes it just, it all depends on the angle you're spinning it at.
- [15:01]
Sarah
Yeah, I know some, A lot of this, I think, comes down to good strategy, which is, I think probably where we want to go next. Because I'm like super interested in your. Your strategy here because one of the things. Very good. Mutual friend Joanna of ours just Touts for you all the time. She's like, paige is the queen of freaking parody and humor and, like, putting in those. So she has, like, upsold yourself. Your skill set. Good God. Your skill set, which I'm like, I think we should. We should talk to you because you are apparently the queen of this type of stuff. And now I want to learn. Like, I want to know, because I could be funny sometimes, but oftentimes it's on accident. I don't mean to be funny. And then it just comes out. Can you train yourself to be funny? Or do you have to just have natural talent?
- [15:44]
Paige Phillips
No, it's not even that. You are, like, people that are funny that don't know that they are funny. To me, I'm more jealous of those people. Everything that comes out of the mouth, there's like. It's hilarious. Like, I don't even know what I did.
- [15:57]
Sarah
It's like, good.
- [15:58]
Paige Phillips
Like, never stop not trying, please.
- [16:03]
Sarah
Well, and I. You have more experiences than I do when it comes to ads, at least, because I did UGC for, like, a stint. It was, like, good six, eight months that I was doing ugc. And I remember I was better at the explanatory style. So that's where we talk a little bit about that. Like, match your. Your UGC personality with the style of ad that best suits you. But it's because Sarah talks too much. So I just explained, like, I just explained it to death. Until people purchase, I want to know from. Is there like, a tactical or, like, a framework around generating funny ads? Do you have one that you could share? Or if there's. Is there, like, a set of rules.
- [16:36]
Paige Phillips
That you follow adding in the authentic moments? I made me. Me and Jo spearheaded one using her husband. And it was so funny having to fight her on certain things. Like, I was having to, like, send her videos, like, the angle I wanted. Because it's supposed to be him looking down at the phone, but everybody wants to put it up here. And I was like, no, I want that super unflattering angle where he's looking down like this. Like, that's exactly how it would look in the thing. And it's like. Like, have him just, like, all up in there and be like, I don't care if it's jarring. It's like, make it real. Like, this is what would actually happen in this scenario. Like, don't stage it. Oh, he was such an amazing, fantastic.
- [17:14]
Sarah
Well, and to your point, a lot of. A lot of humor comes down to editing, but some of it also Just comes down to, can we, can we make it weird? Can we just get a little bit more weird? Because we always want to prettify. Is that a word? Prettify? Like pretty up. We really wanna make things like pretty in branding, which I, I understand the reasons for and I, I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I also think there's a place at a time where things need to be gorgeous, but I don't know on, on platforms and when it comes to content, in my experience creating my own content and marketing for brands, oftentimes it's the stuff where it's like, that guy looks so. He had like three chins. Cause I was like, like down at him and people don't expect it. And it's all of a sudden like now I gotta stop and see why this guy looks that way. Yeah. And I, I wish more people would be more open, I guess, to just, let's make a fool of ourselves marketers. Like, who cares? Nobody's gonna remember that ad anyways unless you do something like, what was the one. Oh, just left my brain. Old Spice where they stuck a guy on the back of a horse and there was all kinds of ridiculous things all over the place and he was like, perfect. It was brilliant. Oh my God. It was absolutely. And it ran for years and years and years. Unless you're going to do that type of campaign, nobody's going to remember like a 30 second ad, but they will remember that it made you laugh a little bit.
- [18:30]
Paige Phillips
Exactly.
- [18:31]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [18:31]
Paige Phillips
And the entertainment factor, I almost, it's like, especially with it's. I don't know about your Instagram feeds lately, but it's like, good God, constant is kind of like, I don't even want to be on here. I'm off. Like, I just need to. So to be able to just sprinkle some joy into things. Like, I also like, my stepdad was an award winning editor for many, many years and so sometimes I'll show him things and he's always like, I can't tell you the importance of like music. Like, make sure the music is like. It's like I always like, sometimes these editors will pick something here and I'm just kind of like, you make me want to like go to a rave for grandmas and die. I don't know how else to describe this, but just like, man, they get funky.
- [19:13]
Sarah
Make it fun.
- [19:14]
Paige Phillips
Like music. Such a sensory experience it is. On the flip side, I have been loving doing no sound lately to just, you know, somebody that like speaks lower I feel like commands the room even more. As opposed to, like, flashy things.
- [19:31]
Sarah
Here's this and that, like, and the.
- [19:32]
Paige Phillips
Music and that is just kind of like, yo, what's up? Let's talk. You know, it's like I have trying.
- [19:37]
Sarah
To train myself to do that for years. Sarah does not. Because I talk way too much and way too fast, but I'm trying to slow down because those. What do they call those? Like, pregnant paws? I don't know why they call them that. But the pregnant paws, where it's just like, there's dead air there for a second. That one in particular, I guess, is like a tactic on stage where a lot of, like, really good speakers use that tactic to just stop talking. And I was like, oh, yeah, should probably stop talking for now. Yeah, apparently it's the thing. I had no idea. But. Oh. So when we're talking about, like, delivery, obviously when it comes to, like, editing and, like, putting all these things together and generating a good storyline, this is the reason why people get mad at me all the time. I always tell people I hate the ADA framework because it causes low intensity in your ads. I think it causes too much of this type of, like, it doesn't do the large peaks and dips that, like, you need to have, um, in the brain to be able to make a connection with the story that you're listening to. Ada, I think, is one of the worst frameworks you could use for ads right now because it's boring.
- [20:45]
Paige Phillips
I don't even know ada. What. What the heck is ada? You don't ada?
- [20:47]
Sarah
No, ADA is a copywriting term, and it's usually stands for attention, interest, desire, and action. Ah, desire, action. And you see it everywhere. As soon as you know this framework, you're like, I see it in every ad that ever gets produced. We grab attention, then we build interest with either some sort of a story or the problem itself. Then we build desire by saying, here's the solution, and we're presenting the product and we're giving testimonials and then the call to action. Right. And that's.
- [21:16]
Paige Phillips
Yeah, we have. I like ada. I mean, yeah, we have like, like opener on ramp, sales sequence off ramp. It's kind of the same thing. Like, at least in the structured, like, editing form of what we do. It's like, that's how we kind of can break it up for ourselves. That's like the baseline.
- [21:31]
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I should say caveat. It's not. The ADA doesn't work. It's just boring to Sarah Yeah, so just, like, it creates very stalled ads because it's just the same, like, here's three reasons why this.
- [21:44]
Paige Phillips
So sick of that stuff. Which sucks, because now I'm actually getting the amazing task of taking on all of our new concepts and footage. Spin new things out of it, where it's like, then I'll, like, be able to, like, look back at the analytics of our top performers of right now. And I'm like, I don't even. I almost can't even split them apart anymore. Like, what was the difference on this one? It's like, well, we had a new. I guess I. On the ADA scale, and I'm just like, oh, okay.
- [22:09]
Sarah
Yeah.
- [22:09]
Paige Phillips
I mean, like, of course, like, keep doing it. But I'm just like, I'm gonna pull my brains out. Just know well.
- [22:16]
Sarah
And it's tough, especially for marketers, because we're. We've. We're built off of frameworks. And this, I think, is. Is a, like, a very mental bias thing that we've had for way too long in marketing, which is, like, there's only one framework that works, and that's direct response framework. And I'm like, no, Nope. And I could prove it to you. Lego Movie is a really good example of this. There was no CTA in that movie anywhere. Not anywhere. It was just an interesting story. That's all it was. It was just LEGO characters doing. There was no call to action in Lego Movie. But if you notice it, go online and, like, check out, like, how much LEGO grew after the Lego Movie. And it was like, 4 billion to, like, 16 billion or whatever it was. Right? Like, massive amounts because they created good content. There was no call to action at the end that was like, go buy our Legos. Here's all these sets that you can get. Nobody cared because they were like, I'm gonna go buy Legos now.
- [23:05]
Paige Phillips
Legos for the past hour and a half. Like, they want to keep.
- [23:08]
Sarah
Yeah. That's why I'm like, what can I live in a world of skincare that I want to do? Like, can I live in a world of, like, cookware or, like, supplements or, like, can I just. Can you create a world for me where it'd be interesting to live with your product? Yeah. Throughout my entire day, that's what I want to see. And I wish more people would do it because it draws my credit. So, yeah, it's not that I hate the ADA framework. I. Well, I have beef with it, but I just think it creates boring ads. There was. There was a. I don't know if I did this with your team. There was a team that I was doing some trainings with that we went over, like, 15 different storytelling frameworks that you could use. These were pulled down from comedians, people that did TED talks, major, like movie directors and story, like, story writers and things like that. All these people. So some of the ones that are included in there are like the Pixar storytelling framework, because they basically use the same one every single time, which is Hero's Journey is involved in here. Freytag's pyramid. There's like a couple other weird ones in there, but I've seen some really interesting results because it creates better content and then you just kind of like, add your CTA on the back end and it's. That's pretty powerful stuff.
- [24:15]
Paige Phillips
Like, I gotta make a Hero's Journey ad.
- [24:19]
Sarah
I'm sure you already have is the thing. This is the funny part is like, good creative strategists like yourself intuitively already do these things. And, like, I don't usually have to, like, teach you how to do it, but it's fun. I. I would rather create good stories, but that's just because Sarah likes to.
- [24:33]
Paige Phillips
Create content, and I think that is still an important thing to do. And it's like, But a story also doesn't have to be, you know, sit down with your popcorn and, like, watch a movie. Like, a story can be quite condensed. My biggest thing lately is how do I, like, not how do I, like, trim out all the fat, but kinda.
- [24:51]
Sarah
How do I trim out all the.
- [24:52]
Paige Phillips
Like, as much fat as I can, Especially with people's attention rates and stuff. It's like, how do you just get to the juiciest part of it? Sometimes that's so hard because you're like, oh, I really like this little bit or this little bit, and it's like, and then I'll watch it again, like a year later. And I'm just kind of like, oh, man, I really could trim down here. And you get a little too attached to it.
- [25:09]
Sarah
Oh, my gosh. That's what I'm running into right now with my organic content on TikTok. Most of the comments on one of, like, my most viral posts or saying, like, five minutes later, she finally got to the point and I was like, ow. First of all, Rue, also, you stay.
- [25:25]
Paige Phillips
For the whole five minutes.
- [25:29]
Sarah
So does it matter? No. I also like to talk, so people are just gonna have to deal with it. That's so funny, though. Oh, my God. Okay, but see, that's the difference too.
- [25:36]
Paige Phillips
Like, you're Very engaging to listen to. Thank you.
- [25:39]
Sarah
You are.
- [25:40]
Paige Phillips
I saw an ad one time. It was actually an ad for some sort of, like, marketing campaign. I forgot what the company did exactly. But two and a half minutes in, they call it, like. And now it's two and a half minutes in, and I'm sure you didn't even notice.
- [25:50]
Sarah
And I was like, oh, my God, it was fantastic. And so I really analyzed it, and.
- [25:54]
Paige Phillips
It'S just like, the pace at which they were doing things, like how they were explaining they were never really repeating themselves. It was, like, forward moving a narrative, but with, like, compelling shots and stuff that were just so good that I really didn't even know that I was doing that.
- [26:09]
Sarah
Now I feel like I need to go back to all my content and redo it to just be like, how can I tell a story in a more concise way that gets to the point? What keeps you captivated long enough so that, like, it doesn't matter where the point is in the video. You'll stay until you get to the point.
- [26:24]
Paige Phillips
Even with, like, oh, man, I had some drunk friends this weekend that were yelling over me, and I was just kind of sitting there. I was very tired. Amazing. It was like I was analyzing their storytelling and I'm just kind of like, girl, you made the point five minutes ago. Exactly. You need us to reassure. Just stop talking, you know, and it's like, stop talking.
- [26:42]
Sarah
Just stop.
- [26:43]
Paige Phillips
But not only that, it's just like, yeah, you. A lot of people, I feel like, feel like they need to keep circling back or repeat this.
- [26:49]
Sarah
Yes.
- [26:49]
Paige Phillips
Or whatever it is. It's just like a really good storyteller just keeps it going and keeps you hooked. Oh, my gosh.
- [26:55]
Sarah
I think that also comes down to the fact that humans, one, need a lot of validation, especially if you're like a millennial Gen X or Gen Z or. But I also think some of this comes down to. Nobody's taught us. Nobody's taught us how to tell a story. Some people just naturally do it well, you know, and those people are usually creative strategists. But sometimes you get. You get these weird, I don't know, anomalies in the ad account. People are like, I can't explain why this ad is working. And my usually, my first thought is like, well, you're telling a good story here. And it's. It's not like, moving on too long. And you're not, like, over explaining. You just, like, present the information and you're done.
- [27:36]
Paige Phillips
That's usually what's going. Okay, well, and it's like I'm gonna keep like where I work, all that hush, hush. But post its. I have been wrapping my brain around the psychology around why post its do so well? Because I do not understand it. I don't understand it at all.
- [27:58]
Sarah
It's a good storytelling mechanism. You don't expect to see them and then there they are and people are like, oh, oh, sticky note. Yeah. Sticky notes are also interesting because if you think about what a sticky note is, like what it's what the use is, it's mostly just to remind you of something. Right. It's just like here's a thought that I stuck in one space. Now there's other places that we do this as humans, but sticky notes are the most universal and I think that's the reason why they worked is because wide audiences understand what they are. Note taking apps did the same thing, sort of, but they're not as good because it's not a physical medium. Yeah. So now I'm trying to think, what else do we, what else do we use to remind ourselves of things?
- [28:39]
Paige Phillips
A notebook.
- [28:42]
Sarah
Put a notebook out of there would.
- [28:44]
Paige Phillips
Be kind of cool.
- [28:44]
Sarah
Yeah, I've seen those where they write on this side of the hand, like big long pieces of text. I've seen that before. Seen Notes app. What else? I haven't seen much anything else, but I haven't seen anybody. Remember people used to tie a string around their fingers. Oh, like a reminder.
- [29:01]
Paige Phillips
52.
- [29:02]
Sarah
That's what I'm saying. Let's bring back the 1950s. There's gotta be something that we could bring. That's weird, right?
- [29:09]
Paige Phillips
Why did a certain demographic.
- [29:10]
Sarah
Let's go. The other thing I will say, what about like magnets on a fridge? Is that the way my mom used to do it? She used to write big notes and then just stick them as a magnet on the fridge. I also have seen people write it with like whiteboard markers on a mirror. There's all kinds of different ways that you could use that specific psychology hack, I guess you could say in different formats. But yeah, that's. Sticky note took off. Last question that I have for you because we've ah, we've covered so many good topics. I want to know when it comes to like leading creative strategy for bigger brands and bigger brands, like could be anywhere from like seven, eight, nine figures, like whoever. When it comes to leading like big creative strategy, what do you start with while you're going through the ideation process? Is it research? Is it you like to go look at other ads from other People, Is it just you sit down with yourself and kind of make a list, like, where do you start?
- [30:05]
Paige Phillips
I, I, if there's talent involved, I will do a pretty thorough dig on them first because I now do everything. I do it from writing the script, writing the shoot brief, if there's a pre production, depending on the caliber of celebrity status, I suppose, on who we're working with, being on set, seeing it through there, getting the footage I do, I literally build it from the ground up. But from the very beginning, I will study the person. So just like seeing them and stuff. And then I'll even like, like look at clips of them and it's like, what, what, what even is their voice? Like, is their voice poetic? Is it funny? Are they smart asses? Are they like who? Like, what are they? And then I will build the script off of that and, and even then when I'm on set, I'll be like, fight me on any of this. Like if this. And they'll be like, well, you almost.
- [30:54]
Sarah
Captured my voice too well, because I've been studying. That's smart. Study the deliverer of the message. Oh, that's something I've never actually thought of doing before. Smart pro tip on here. Paige said it first. Got to study the deliverer. It's a really good tip. Okay. All right, shoot. I wish we had more time. Where can people find you? They want to follow what you're doing or hopefully work with you, I guess.
- [31:22]
Paige Phillips
LinkedIn. I'm really bad at the LinkedIn thing again. I've been a little freelance artist my whole life. So this, this whole new social media of LinkedIn, I'm like, but I am there.
- [31:34]
Sarah
I'm there sometimes 100%.
- [31:36]
Paige Phillips
I do also. I don't have a lot of time for it anymore, but I do make a lot of sketch comedy, like character driven sketch comedy. So if you want a good time on my Instagram, it's bring your own stereo. I was gonna say@gmail.com. that's wrong. Instagram is at bring your own stereo.
- [31:54]
Sarah
Stereo.
- [31:54]
Paige Phillips
Gmail.com stereo.
- [31:56]
Sarah
I'm following now because now I need someone to go to study who does parody well, because I'm gonna try and start doing parody on TikTok and I'm really scared. Thank you for. Oh, I forgot to say, follow me at Sarah Love. Yes, follow Sarah. Sarah Levener. Everywhere you consume content now. Because Now I'm on TikTok, so I can say that this was great.
- [32:15]
Paige Phillips
Thank you for coming on.
- [32:17]
Sarah
I love this conversation.
- [32:18]
Paige Phillips
Thank you so much. Me too.
- [32:18]
Sarah
We need to have more of these because this is the conversations that I think people want to have. Yeah, I can talk about this forever. Brain Driven Brands is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast Network and is presented by Tether Insights. For more information, go to Tether Insights. Dot I.