B (2:51)

All right, I'm in. Let's see.

A (2:53)

Is that weird? Okay. All right, so pick a number between one and three.

B (2:57)

Two.

A (2:58)

Oh, okay. This one's gonna be hard. I wish you would have picked one. All right, so I had three different brands in my.

B (3:02)

Between one and three number. Between one and three is two.

A (3:05)

Okay, pick a number. One, two, or three. One. Two, or three. Pick a number. Dang it. Pick a different one. Okay, that's fine. All right, so I had three brands in my head, and the second brand that I had was a brand that you've purchased for before. You had. Actually, you and I talked about this, like, a couple nights ago. Usually when I go into any sort of consumer behavior research, I'm trying to identify basically five different things. Right. So I start with identify. I don't know if I should tell you this, because now you're gonna know.

B (3:34)

Now I'll run away and go close the curtain so Dexter doesn't bark and you tell everybody what you're doing.

A (3:39)

Okay. I don't want to tell you specifically because then you'll know what I'm looking for. All right, so Casey's going off camera that I usually look for five different things, Right. When I'm doing any sort of consumer research, especially when it comes to building avatars and marketing to those avatars so you can get them to convert. First thing I always look for. We talked about this on an episode just a little bit ago with me and Nate is identity, what they identify as personally. Second is emotion. Third is always generation. Fourth is seasonal purchasing behavior. And then fifth would be cultural movements. So cultural movement. We're gonna go. Casey's like, can I come back? Yes. Okay. So I explained to everybody what I'm looking for. I'm not gonna tell you what I'm looking for, but I want to ask you some questions around these particular. These five different pieces that I'm trying to identify so I can figure out what to. To market to the most. So first of all, let me ask what, when it comes to, let's say, your hobbies, what do you look for? Like, what. What kind of hobbies do you. Are you most drawn to? Let's start with that.

B (4:51)

So I'd say I fall into two categories, right? One is physical activity. So that's like hockey or hiking or biking, right? Something that gets me out of my house and moving around, right. The other is making. So, like, I like to create stuff. I like to put stuff together. You know, like, I look. I mean, like, I have the Imperial Star Destroyer with lights and mounted to my wall with 3D printed jigs, right? Like, yeah, I. I want to put something together and, like, make it my own.

A (5:24)

Okay, so would you say then, that your identity is based on doing and making? Is that accurate? You're a doer and a maker?

B (5:31)

Yeah, I think that that rings pretty true.

A (5:34)

So case consumer. Casey, who is consider Casey. First question that we asked, obviously try. When you're a marketer and you're trying to get information on people, ask them, like, what. What their aspirations are, what they currently align with, and in particular, for this use case, we're trying to get down to who Casey is at the core, right? So first he identifies. To write this down as a doer and a maker. That I already knew. But that's okay.

B (5:59)

The.

A (6:00)

The audience didn't know. So second question. Let's. Let's talk a little bit about when you buy products in your hobby spaces, what's most important to you when it comes to experience, like, your actual experience of them?

B (6:13)

Ooh, are we saying in the doer space or the maker space?

A (6:20)

Well, that's a good question. Let's do doer space first.

B (6:22)

Okay.

A (6:23)

What's important to product in the doer space?

B (6:27)

So especially with, like, exercise, working out, I want the product to get out of my way, right? So, like, for instance, if I buy, like, a pair of running shoes, right? I don't want to think about the running shoes. I don't want to feel like I. They should just feel like nothing, right? Same with, like, a workout shirt. I don't want to feel like, um, I want to put it on and forget that I have it on. Right. Third example would be, like, if I was Going out and buying a new bike, right? I want it to fit me like a glove. Like, I don't want to think about how does this bike feel? Or I just. I want to get on it, and it should be effortless every time.

A (7:10)

Interesting. Okay, see? Okay, so this is the reason why I do this research, because in general, I have kind of, like, my own bias of what I think you purchase products for. And I'm close to this consumer because I'm your freaking wife. Like, I see you purchase products all the time, so I know pretty well what Kasey buys, why he buys them. That's an interesting one. I did not know that you purchase products and that you abs. You just want them to, like, get out of your way. I like that phrase because it. It shows me, based on the identity that you have as a doer and a maker, you also, on the doer side, at least purchase products specifically so that they don't interrupt your flow. Is that correct?

B (7:49)

Right. Like, okay, so another. Another good. For instance, right? If I buy a hockey stick, I don't care what brand it is. I don't care what color it is. I don't care what tape is on it. I just want it to, like, when I pick that hockey stick up and feel the puck on the stick, I don't want to. Like, there should be a direct connection between my brain and the puck that.

A (8:08)

Sticks it out of my way. Okay? So the stick shouldn't even be an entity. When you buy a product, you just want it to. To do what it's supposed to do.

B (8:17)

Right. It could be the nicest stick in the world. And if it doesn't feel right, I'm not going to play with it.

A (8:23)

Fascinating. So your. Your experience, like, your. Your craving for experience is all about, like, how it feels physically, right? Yeah, like, connection to it. Okay, interesting.

B (8:38)

All right, so, for instance, I'm not playing. I'm. I'm not playing. Hold a carbon fiber stick. I'm. I'm playing hockey. I don't care what the carbon fiber stick is.

A (8:48)

I'm playing hologram stick. So the game. Okay. All right. Okay. So now we've identified two different pieces out of the five that I want to see. Third question here. How would you. All right, which products attach to, like, your, like, need for things that are related to play or. Or, like, childhood? Right? Like, which products would you say fit into that box of, I do this just for me because it's fun stuff.

B (9:18)

That I do for me because it's fun 3D printing, building Lego sets I.

A (9:24)

Keep waiting for you to name those two. Okay, secondary question to follow up that why. Why 3D printing?

B (9:32)

It scratches that maker itch.

A (9:35)

Okay.

B (9:35)

And it fits in a box that's like this big, right?

A (9:39)

Like small.

B (9:40)

Right. So, like, okay, so for instance, for all the woodworking stuff that I do, right. I have to have an entire shop filled with, you know, tools that are thousands of pounds and, you know, all running on 240 volt circuit, blah, blah, blah. Like the 3D printer sits over there on a little desk, and it's the size of a, you know, large toaster oven. And so I can. Anything that I want to make can come out of that little box. And it doesn't take up a ton of room. It doesn't. I don't have to go anywhere to do it. I don't have to like, you know, change my clothes to go do it. Like, it's. It's pretty frictionless.

A (10:19)

Okay, so you would say that you value ease of use or convenience when it comes to, like maker side of Kasey convenience?

B (10:26)

Probably more than ease of use.

A (10:28)

Oh, okay, interesting. So it doesn't matter if it's hard to use if it's just in your environment. Okay.

B (10:33)

The Prusa I3 Mark II was a pain in the butt to use, but it was at my house, so I could do it, you know, in the middle of other stuff.

A (10:43)

Oh, okay. Oh, I have so many follow up questions, but I can't ask them all. Ah, this is gonna be such a hard episode because I have so many questions now. I'm like, why do you do that? Okay. As somebody who's in your, like, mid-30s, do you find that the doer or the maker side of you is directly affected by your age? Has that changed at all? Did it start when you were young? Like, what? Give me kind of a range of like when you started to. When you remember developing this, like, doer maker side of yourself.

B (11:18)

The doer maker part of me. So I would say that that probably came out in my early 20s, right?

A (11:31)

In your 20s?

B (11:33)

Yeah.

A (11:33)

Okay.

B (11:34)

So.

A (11:34)

Oh, okay.

B (11:35)

All right, Fascinating. I don't feel like. I don't feel like as a child I was like a maker. Right. Like I was whenever I'd build Legos, like, I would build what the instructions said. You know, granted, like, my dad and I would sit downstairs and like, make spaceships and stuff, but I was never one to go and like, take a bunch of Legos and build a giant building. Right. I always tried to follow the instructions and blah, blah, blah. Right. And Like, I never remember in now. I mean, you know, maybe a little bit. Like, I remember doing, like, first LEGO League and whatnot, but I never really made stuff. I made stuff, but I didn't make a lot of stuff. And then, like, in my 20s, when I got into woodworking, that's when I was like, oh, this is something that I really enjoy. Right. Like, I really enjoy putting stuff together, really enjoy having a vision in my head and then making it into a reality.

A (12:32)

In your 20s, I find that really interesting. So as you're going through it, doing, like, this research as a marketer, because now I have kind of a general gist of, like, what your identity is, what kind of emotions you feel around the products that you buy, what you value from those products. And then specifically when you started, like, focusing on these type of products, I can get a little bit better of a sense as to why you're purchasing these things, like, deep down deep. But the interesting part is some of these things I'm like, I want to go deeper into. There's something in your 20s that switched. Right. So if you didn't make a whole lot, if you weren't, like, creatively making as a child, meaning you weren't taking Legos that were just, like, strewn on the floor and then building whatever you wanted, you were actually, like, following a process, following a plan, I would still push to say that was an incredibly creative space that you were in, because you're wrong. All of the. All of the things that you learned on Legos as a child and then just, like, duplicated it into the works or the. Into the workshop in your 20s, you just became more creative as to the output.

B (13:35)

I don't think you're wrong. Yeah, I mean, like, I don't. I think if you ask my parents, like, if you ask my dad, did Casey make stuff as a kid? He'd say yes. Right?

A (13:43)

Yeah. Interesting.

B (13:45)

But I don't think that I. Like, I don't think that it was part of my identity until my mid-20s.

A (13:51)

Whoa. Okay. Oh, I want to go deeper now. Okay. Crap. This is gonna be a hard episode, because I just want to know now. I'm like, now I need to know all about what Casey thinks about this stuff. I'm learning so much about my husband, people. Okay. All right, so we. We've asked, like, a few questions. Yeah, we've. We've asked a few questions to try and get deeper into what this person really feels about products that they identify with, what he values most in the products that he purchases. And a Little bit on when this need for, like, doer maker products came out. A couple more questions I want to ask and then we're gonna go on to, like, me drafting an ad to see if I can convert you for a product that I know you would probably buy. This question. This is going to be hard because I don't know that you'll know this information, but what time of the year do you feel is most conducive to your maker side? Like, when do you feel most like making stuff? Winter.

B (14:54)

Winter? What, in the summer?

A (14:57)

What?

B (14:57)

No, in the summer, I want to be outside doing stuff.

A (15:01)

Oh, okay.

B (15:02)

So summer I want to go hiking, and summer I want to go ride my bike. I want to go for a run.

A (15:06)

Yeah.

B (15:07)

I want to go take our kids down to the river. Right.

A (15:09)

All right, that's accurate. That's accurate.

B (15:11)

Yeah. Versus, like, in the winter when it's cold and it's dark and there's nothing to do, I would so much rather go, like, be in the shop and.

A (15:21)

Build something that's so fascinating because it's opposite of me. As soon as we hit winter, I'm like, I just want to sit on the couch and watch 18 movies in a row. Just not. I just want to eat a lot of popcorn and not move off that couch. Fascinating. Okay, so you're a winter maker and a summer doer. Okay, but. Okay, I'm gonna challenge this slightly. You're a hockey doer, though, and your hockey season is primarily in the winter. Is that just out of.

B (15:47)

I mean, my hockey season's all year round.

A (15:49)

Yeah, I mean, that's true. That's true. I. I feel like you do play more hockey in the winter than you do in the summer, though. Is that not accurate?

B (15:58)

No, I think you're wrong.

A (15:59)

All right, fine, fine. You would know. I don't. I don't play the hockey. Okay, interesting. So, okay, we'll just say that winter is your maker.

B (16:06)

I make more stuff in the winter and do more stuff in the summer.

A (16:10)

Outside of all the things that we just covered. This is the last question and then we will move on. Outside of all the things that we just covered, what kind of. What kind of like. Interesting. I don't even know how to say. I don't know how to phrase this without giving it away. What kind of trends are you following currently on, like, social media or, you know, within your own hobbyist spaces that are, like, prevalent? Like, a lot of people would know that this is a trend that's happening.

B (16:40)

Trends.

A (16:40)

Am I following trend? Yeah. So for Instance, a good trend would be, everybody all of a sudden is starting to tape their hockey sticks with pink tape instead of blue tape. That's a trend, right? What kind of trends are you following?

B (16:53)

Oh, I don't. I don't think I follow the trends that much.

A (16:59)

Like, oh, I would disagree. But. Okay, Really?

B (17:02)

I mean. Okay, the only trend that I would say I. In my doer. In, like, the doer thing, I don't think I'm following any trends.

A (17:11)

Like, okay, what about what I do.

B (17:13)

In the maker space? The only one that I could really say, like, I'm following a trend is like, I bought the X1 carbon. Right? Like, that specific 3D printer is.

A (17:23)

I was going to say, you got to tell everybody what that is. Okay.

B (17:27)

So that that printer is very trendy right now, but only because when it came out, it was light years ahead of everything else for the same, if not a little less price. Right. So it's not like I was like, oh, Everybody has an X1 carbon, so I want one. It was, I want a new 3D printer. And I looked at the top three, and it was like, this one is clearly better than the rest. Okay.

A (17:53)

Would you say that's a common behavior for you, is adopting products that are. This is a leading question. 100%. Adopting products that are, like, innovative in any space?

B (18:04)

Yeah.

A (18:04)

New products, interesting products, unique. Okay. Yeah, yeah, I figured it was. For everyone who's listening, don't ask questions like Sarah just did, because I literally led him into that answer, because I know the answer is yes, because this man has bought all kinds of products that are incredibly innovative, very unique, kind of bizarre products. Okay, so now I can tell you the first couple questions that I was asking. You were specific to try to understand your deeper identity. You identify as a maker and a doer. You started making a doing in your 20s, but it sounds like that was stemming from a whole bunch of childhood experiences from, like, your family side where you and your dad did a lot with Legos, or, like, it was togetherness, and it was a lot of, like, interesting mechanical things that you did together. The second third questions that we went through, we're talking more to the side of you that was emotionally focused. Right? So the products that you buy, you really want them to kind of just get out of your way because you want to get to the creative part, the doing part, the making part. You don't want to spend a whole lot of time, it sounds like, trying to learn a product or trying to, like, set up a product or trying to, like, Mechanically move away. You just want to get to the fun part. Is that accurate?

B (19:16)

Yeah, yeah, that's very accurate for both.

A (19:19)

All right, so fourth and fifth questions then. Talking about, like, your values. So it sounds like you could you value convenient products, stuff that's like, easy to access in your space, things that you don't have to travel to get to.

B (19:31)

Yeah.

A (19:31)

Okay. All right. Ah. All right. All right. I wanted to make sure that I heard you correctly because I took copious notes the last couple questions. Sounds like winter is your highest period, like your. Your most intense period of possible purchasing time, because that's when you're making the most. Now, when would you say this feeling comes on? That was probably the last question I had on that side. Do you start making stuff in the fall or do you start making stuff like when it gets cold, the snow is out, like, here we go. Now I'm starting to think about what I want to make.

B (20:01)

Like the day that daylight savings time hits.

A (20:05)

Really when it's.

B (20:07)

When it's all of a sudden 4:30 and it's dark outside, I'm like, well, can't go do anything else. Might as well make something.

A (20:13)

Okay, interesting. All right. And then it sounds like trends you're following are just innovative products in general. Like that sound about Casey Levinger. So we're going to share my screen and we're going to go through just the process of me generating headlines for this particular ad that I would design for you. So when I'm going through a generating headlines for everybody who can't see this is not watching it on YouTube, I usually open up a chat prompt, and my prompt is almost always the same. It's very short. And that's because Sarah likes to talk to chat. You can do longer prompts. You probably should do it way more in depth than I'm doing. I just like to talk to chat all day. So I start with write me 10 headlines, and then I'll put a fence around it. So in parentheses it says four to seven words long. That conveys some sort of a message. Now, if I knew the message I was going to send to Casey, I would put that here. I don't know the message I'm going to send to him yet. So we're going to say write me 10 headlines, four to seven words long that speak to a customer. And then I'm going to like, paste in all of my notes that I had from Casey's interview. Right. Somebody who identifies as a doer and a maker started doing a making in his 20s once the product to get out of his way can values convenient products. Winter being the highest, like, maker time period for this customer and then somebody who was into innovative products. So I'm going to drop that in there and see what chat comes back with. Now, it's probably going to be awful. Just so everyone knows, this is not going to be good marketing content, but I want to start somewhere to try and figure out which one of these Kasey would be most likely to purchase from now. Don't tell me, don't tell me. Not all of these. Pretty much all of these are awful. Like, I wouldn't use any of them. So one of the things I am going to do is I'm not going to show you because I'm going to add secret sauce in here. I'm going to add context for the product that I'm trying to sell, Right? So I'm going to tell chat I'm trying to sell this customer blank product. This is gonna be such a weird episode. I'm so excited. Okay, Scotty, are you talking? You're muted. I can't hear you. Do you want to come in, Scotty?

B (22:16)

No.

A (22:18)

Okay. This is gonna be such a long episode. I feel so bad. Okay, Scotty, you tell us if we need to add anything. Get us in the chat and see if and if we're missing something. All right, so I'm gonna tell it. I'm trying to sell this customer this type of product and see what it comes back with. Oh, this is going to be interesting. Oh, okay. These are so good. All right, all right, all right. One last thing in here. So it gave me these 10 different headlines, and I'm going to run them past Casey in just a second inside an ad that I'm going to generate real quick here. Once you get any sort of, like, headlines back from chat, you have to tell chat what kind of emotion to inject in it because chat always comes back with dumb stuff. That's like the ultimate makers winter solution. Like, that sounds freaking awful. And I know my husband and he would never convert from that. So the last piece in here is we're going to tell chat you need to inject something in here, right? So I'm going to pick one here. Write me 10 headlines. I'm going to ask it to inject some humor, right? So we're going to ask it, right? Me, Ted, humorous headlines. Like, I'm going to craft this ad, and you're not going to convert from it. It's going to be like, sarah, that sucked. Okay. Once you have the headlines. Then we're going to go through and we're actually going to take a picture, whatever the picture of your product is, and drop it into the actual ad. I'm going to draft a static this time because I want to see whether Kasey will actually convert off of a static.

B (23:37)

You know, you know me, my whole. My whole idea is that I don't convert off of anything. And, like, I make my own decisions.

A (23:45)

But you do.

B (23:46)

You seem to think that that's incorrect. So. So that's.

A (23:49)

That's kind of incorrect. It's fine. I mean, you can believe what you want to believe in life. It's okay. Do you want to go through the headlines and see which one you'd convert most off of, or do you want to just see the ad that I created?

B (24:03)

I want to read the headlines and tell you which one I would have picked for me.

A (24:06)

Oh, okay. All right. Oh, man, that's going to make me nervous, too. All right.

C (24:12)

That'S the end of the episode. Producer Scotty chiming in here. We're gonna let you know if consumer Casey did convert on the ad, what the ad was like, what it looked like, and all that on the next episode. In the meantime, you can check out Sarah Levenger. Sarah Levenger, all the socials, and make sure you go to tetherinsights IO. That's tetherinsights IO. Until next time. Have a great day. The Brain Driven Brands podcast is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast Network.

B (24:52)

I need it now. Need a beat, need release, need a laugh bias, sit Backfire.