Podcast Summary: Brain Driven Brands

Episode: From 1,000 Ads to 12: How Smart Brands Are Winning Differently

Host: Sarah Levinger
Guests: Nate Lagos (Co-host), Kevin (Director of E-Commerce, High Camp Flasks)
Date: September 23, 2025

Overview

In this episode, Sarah Levinger, alongside co-host Nate Lagos, and guest Kevin from High Camp Flasks, debunk the dominant DTC advertising narrative that creative volume—pumping out hundreds or thousands of ads—is the key to success. They reveal how leading neuromarketing brands (True Classic, Spotify, Plants vs. Zombies, etc.) are focusing on story-driven campaigns, deep brand understanding, and strategic efficiency. The discussion features personal experiences, behind-the-scenes insights, and practical steps that any e-commerce brand can implement to drive sustainable growth and prevent burnout—all with fewer, higher-quality ads.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of "More Ads Means More Success"

• Kevin's Cautionary Tale (03:04–05:04):

  • Attempted to scale ad creative output dramatically at High Camp Flasks after buying into industry advice about "ad volume," creating a couple dozen ads per week.
  • Result: This approach was distracting, unscalable, and led to team burnout.
  • "We tried to spin up... we're a very small team... it's not like we're this big hive mind, but it sucked... It distracted from more important stuff." – Kevin [05:04]

• Nate's Perspective on the Industry (06:20–08:04):

  • Many agencies and platforms (like Meta) champion ad volume without context. This advice often benefits agencies more than brands.
  • "If you're a sub 100 million dollar a year brand, which 99.88% of us are, you don't have the bandwidth to do this nor should you spend on it. There are so much more high impactful tasks to do." – Nate [08:06]

• Sarah's Critique:

  • Much of the belief in ad volume comes from echo chambers (Twitter, forums) with little real data.
  • "Are you sure that volume was what actually did it for you? ...I don't buy this idea that it's just volume that's creating these wins." – Sarah [08:40]

2. Opportunity Cost & Burnout

• The Human Toll (08:04–09:51):

  • Focusing on endless ad production wastes time and talent, taking resources from product development, research, and better offers.
  • "This is how you burn out people. 100 and like myself included." – Nate [08:06]

• Systemic Industry Burnout (20:20):

  • Creative teams and marketers are exhausted, resulting in diminished ad performance industry-wide.
  • "It's burning out the people in the industry. It's burning us out... No, everyone is burnt out. ...The ads that we're producing are naturally higher in cost because we can't come up with good ideas.” – Sarah [20:20]

3. Shifting Focus: From "Winning Ads" to "Winning Campaigns"

• Building Lasting Campaigns (11:42–13:46):

  • Kevin now structures campaigns around "hero assets" for broad, persistent reach, targeting personas at every funnel stage instead of chasing singular "winning ads."
  • "I'm trying to build structure around winning campaigns..." – Kevin [11:42]
  • "You run them for months, more and more people... Underneath all that, that's where we are, like, okay, who are our personas? What stage of the purchase funnel are they?" – Kevin [12:33–13:46]

• Thoughtful Campaign Timing (13:46–14:48):

  • Launching campaigns early (e.g., Christmas-themed content in October) to shape purchase intent before peak season, not just react to Black Friday.
  • "I want the purchase decision to have been made already. They're still going to wait till Black Friday to buy it... But I want the decision to be made weeks earlier." – Nate [14:37]

4. Moving Beyond Growth Hacks: Enter the Era of Brand Storytelling

• End of Arbitrage, Return of Marketing Fundamentals (15:02–16:53):

  • Brands can't rely on "button-pushing" growth hacks; instead, success now comes from strong storytelling tailored to channel and audience.
  • "What remains is you have to be an incredible marketing storyteller... but, like, fit that to the audience's preferences on that channel." – Kevin [15:04]

• Audience Saturation Trumps Volume (17:34–18:09):

  • For each persona, being "unavoidable" through persistent, relevant content across platforms is more valuable than broad but shallow reach.
  • "For the right demo, we should be unavoidable and we should hear their lives so often." – Nate [17:57]

5. Learning by Doing and Embracing Quality

• Quality Feedback Loops (18:38–19:58):

  • When focused on storytelling and testing offers, brands learn what customers actually value, benefiting future products and creative.
  • "It creates a much more positive feedback loop... we're getting learnings now that'll shape the brand for the next decade." – Nate [18:38]

• Selective Curation ("The Edit Function") (26:01–26:47):

  • Building in a disciplined review process to discard mediocre ads before launch, focusing resources on what actually fits the strategy.
  • "The injecting like an edit function in our ads process... has been awesome. Yeah, it feels really good." – Kevin [26:01]

6. The Algorithm Isn’t Always Right—Take Control

• Challenging Platform Assumptions (28:03–28:19):

  • Top-spending, top-performing ads per algorithm can sometimes drag down business results; be ready to turn them off and challenge the system.
  • "We’ve started turning off top performers for periods just for funsies... I think it's one of the most impactful things we do in the ad account." – Kevin & Nate [28:20–28:35]

• Obvious Wins (29:34):

  • "The ability to notice the obvious. Now that's a skill set I think every single marketer should learn how to do." – Sarah [29:34]

7. Tactical Takeaways: Kevin’s Top 3 Tips (32:20–33:42)

1. Mine Organic Content:
   • Look for high-performing creative in your brand’s organic feed.
   • "To me, like, I'm so incredibly bullish on organic content right now." – Kevin [32:28]
2. Add an Editorial Review Process:
   • Develop a clear system for killing weak ad concepts before they consume resources and budget.
   • "Figuring out the edit function... And then like integrating that edit function at the beginning stage of the process." – Kevin [32:52]
3. Be Open to Less:
   • Don't be afraid to create fewer ads. Focus on creative quality and impact over sheer output.
   • "Be open to the idea of, like, making less creative and looking elsewhere." – Kevin [33:02]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ad Volume vs. Creative Quality:

  • "The dumbest takes I've ever heard." – Nate, on ad volume advice [04:06]
  • "I just don't buy that that is... where they're trying to put..." – Kevin, doubting Meta's push for creative volume [07:30]

• On Burnout:

  • "Creative is the hardest part of this whole ecosystem by tenfold. The button pushing is actually relatively easy..." – Kevin [06:53]

• On Testing and Campaign Lifecycles:

  • "People take longer than a week to make decisions. Our 7 day click attribution window is a flawed method of judging an advertiser and an advertisement's effectiveness." – Nate [25:09]

• On Joy and Sustainability:

  • "It's way more fun to do that, and it's way more fun to teach other people to do that than it is the meta wall." – Kevin [18:09]

Essential Timestamps

• 00:50–03:04: Kevin introduces High Camp Flasks, recent growth, and emerging challenges.
• 04:25–06:20: The pitfalls and reality of chasing ad volume as a small brand.
• 08:04–09:51: Hidden costs of ad volume—team burnout and wasted opportunity.
• 11:42–13:46: Strategic pivot to campaign structure, hero assets, and customer journey mapping.
• 15:02–16:53: Reflections on the importance of story-driven, fundamentals-based marketing.
• 17:34–18:09: Audience saturation as a smarter objective than raw reach.
• 20:20: The industry-wide burnout caused by ad churn.
• 26:01–26:47: The role of a disciplined editorial process in campaign design.
• 32:20–33:42: Kevin’s closing top 3 tactical tips for brands struggling with the ad volume game.

Final Thoughts

The episode's core message: Smart, sustainable, high-growth brands win not by flooding platforms with endless creative, but by producing fewer, higher-quality, strategically-curated campaigns. Success comes from storytelling, deep audience understanding, and focus—all of which lead to better performance, more resilient teams, and a happier work environment.

"The ability to notice the obvious... that's a skill set every single marketer should learn how to do." – Sarah Levinger [29:34]