Hey Guy, We Need to Talk…(About Generating Market Demand)

Summary

Brain Driven Brands: Episode Summary – "Hey Guy, We Need to Talk…(About Generating Market Demand)"

Release Date: February 4, 2025

In the latest episode of Brain Driven Brands, host Sarah Levinger engages in a compelling conversation with co-host Nate Legos about the intricate dynamics of generating market demand. This episode delves deep into the interplay between market conditions and product excellence, dissecting how top-tier brands navigate these waters to sustain and boost their growth. Here's a detailed breakdown of their insightful discussion.

---

1. Introduction: Navigating Personal and Professional Challenges

Sarah opens the episode with a candid reflection on her personal struggles, including her child's battle with the flu. Despite these challenges, she emphasizes the importance of persevering to deliver valuable content to listeners. This backdrop sets a relatable tone, highlighting the resilience required both in personal life and business.

Sarah (00:59): "It's been a sad week in the Levenger household, but we made it to the podcast today, so I feel good about it."

2. The Central Debate: Market Demand vs. Product Quality

The core of the episode centers around a pivotal debate: Does market demand drive business growth more significantly than the quality of the product itself?

• Sarah's Perspective: She strongly advocates that market conditions and consumer behavior are paramount, attributing approximately 75% of business growth to these factors.

  Sarah (05:56): "I think it's probably more closer to 75% of your growth."

• Nate's Counterpoint: Contrarily, Nate contends that only about 25% of growth is influenced by market trends, emphasizing the enduring importance of strong marketing strategies.

  Nate (05:32): "I'd say 25%."

This fundamental disagreement sets the stage for a nuanced exploration of how businesses can balance product excellence with astute market analysis.

3. Case Study: Nootropics and the Rise of Brain Health Products

Using the booming nootropics industry as a case study, Sarah illustrates how societal behaviors, specifically increased internet usage, have spurred demand for brain health products.

Sarah (07:44): "Brain products in particular have boomed in the last probably five to seven years because of large scale Internet use."

She traces the trend's evolution from the earlier focus on the microbiome to current concerns about brain health, highlighting how shifts in consumer behavior drive market demand.

4. The Multi-Market Landscape: Insights from the Watch Industry

Nate brings in the example of the watch industry to demonstrate that brands often operate within multiple interconnected markets. He points out that a brand like Rolex isn't just competing in the watch market but also in jewelry, gifting, and menswear sectors.

Sarah (09:30): "You're in all of them. Technically. You have a primary, you have a primary market that you follow which is almost always product selected."

This multi-faceted market presence means that a downturn in one segment can be offset by stability or growth in others, underscoring the importance of a diversified market strategy.

5. Messaging vs. Demand Generation: Aligning with Consumer Needs

A critical takeaway from the discussion is Sarah's assertion that "good product does not create demand." Instead, successful products must respond to pre-existing consumer needs and market trends.

Sarah (10:11): "Good products respond to demand that already exists."

Nate supports this by explaining that inherent consumer needs, such as the desire for confidence and status when purchasing watches, aren't artificially created by marketing but are long-standing psychological drivers.

Nate (10:37): "That need for confidence and status is not new. Is not something I implanted in them from my Facebook ads. That's been in our brains."

6. Strategic Partnerships: Leveraging Established Market Positions

The conversation shifts to the significance of strategic partnerships in amplifying a brand's market presence. Nate discusses his company's collaboration with Jack Daniels as a pivotal move that aligns with their target demographic.

Nate (15:14): "We chose to partner with Jack Daniels."

Sarah underscores the value of such alliances, noting that partnering with established brands within sister industries can accelerate growth and enhance brand credibility.

Sarah (16:05): "You should continue to partner with all of the entities that your particular customer type identifies with, because you'll just go faster, faster, faster."

7. Understanding Consumer Behavior in Broader Contexts

Sarah emphasizes the importance of comprehensively understanding the socio-political and economic contexts that influence consumer behavior. For instance, she highlights how political climates can impact purchasing decisions, especially for brands targeting specific demographics like the hardworking, blue-collar audience.

Sarah (14:08): "The way people feel about themselves at home is going to directly affect what they purchase out there."

This holistic view ensures that marketing strategies are not just reactive but are anticipatory of broader societal shifts.

8. Conclusion: Synthesizing Insights and Looking Ahead

As the episode wraps up, Sarah and Nate reaffirm the significance of aligning product offerings with market demands and leveraging strategic partnerships to navigate complex market landscapes. They encourage listeners to delve deeper into understanding their own markets and consumer behaviors to drive sustainable growth.

Sarah (16:49): "Do it. That's what we Shameless. Plug. Is that a good place to end? Should we talk more about this?"

They also promote their respective platforms, urging listeners to engage further with their content for continued learning and insights.

---

Key Takeaways:

• Market Influence: Market conditions and consumer behaviors play a more significant role in business growth than product quality alone.

• Multi-Market Strategy: Brands often operate within multiple interconnected markets, and success may depend on navigating these various segments effectively.

• Strategic Partnerships: Collaborations with established brands within related industries can significantly enhance market presence and growth trajectories.

• Holistic Understanding: A deep understanding of the socio-political and economic contexts is crucial in aligning products with genuine consumer needs.

By dissecting these elements, Brain Driven Brands provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of how to navigate the complexities of market demand and leverage strategic insights for business success.

Transcript

[Sarah]

I'm not convinced that I would be very good business person in that era. Mostly because women didn't have a lot of opportunities back then, but also because I just. The Internet has made it incredibly easy for me to broadcast my message.

[Nate]

Like, yeah, yeah. I think podcasts back then were just yelling in the town square, some guy.

[Sarah]

The most efficient, screaming on the corner. Hear ye, hear ye.

[Nate]

Brought to you by BetterHelp.

[Sarah]

Yeah, well. And I always wonder, is that why I was born now? Is because somehow the universe just knew, like, Sarah needed to be born and let's move her over here because she wouldn't do well. She just wouldn't be happy as a human. Who knows?

[Nate]

God's like, nate's gonna get hot if the air conditioning set below or above 68 degrees. So.

[Sarah]

Okay, well, that's just.

[Nate]

We gotta wait till 1990.

[Sarah]

We gotta wait until he handle it.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Wow. Okay. Oh, my God. All right, welcome back to the podcast. It is. What is today? Actually? Friday. It's Friday. We always do podcasts on Fridays. Don't shame me forgetting what day it is. It's been a long week. My poor child is very sick. He's got the flu, so he's puking and. And not very happy, and he's got a fever, and it just. It's sad. It's been a sad week in the Levenger household, but we made it to the podcast today, so I feel good about it. Nate, my lovely co host. How are you? Hopefully you don't have anybody sick in your household. Let's start with that.

[Nate]

I'm doing great. Literally. Haven't gotten any bad news in a long time.

[Sarah]

The irony of these situations sometimes is, like, what is going on? Somebody's up there pulling freaking strings. Like, watch this here. This will be funny. Let's just, like, slide that in there. Oh, my God. Maybe that's what's happening, is they just want the content to be better.

[Nate]

I'm good. Sarah?

[Sarah]

Yeah? Are you sure?

[Nate]

It's January. We're just living the dream, drinking a lot of caffeine.

[Sarah]

Feel that in my soul. As you should. I don't feel like January. January's been a weird month because I heard opposite side. Some people said we had a great Q4. Everything's lovely. Like, here we go. We're gonna spend cash. We're gonna grow. And then a lot of people that are coming in my doors, at least right now, are like, we hurt. It's painful. There's things.

[Nate]

I've talked to more people in the last couple weeks. That told me like they were down like 20 to 40% last year.

[Sarah]

Yes, yes. Massively bad years.

[Nate]

Like, like a lot of having a lot of brands with like smart operators that like I think are good at this.

[Sarah]

When I keep hearing from some of the smaller, not smaller, but just like more one to two people agencies, they keep saying our, our budgets are getting cut. Like people are actually just like overnight. We just now no longer have that client. They're not even giving us notice. They're just like, we can't work with you anymore because we don't have budget for this bump. Done. Yeah, I was like, that's a lot. That's a lot to deal with. But that some of that is D2C. That's just kind of how volatile the industry is. But today I want to talk about growth, not about stagnation. Most things are growing. You guys are growing happily lately. And I mean it's large part just because you're a very talented marketer, but also because I think there's one specific piece of your growth that we need to talk about that we don't talk about often enough. And no, it's not messaging because that's all we talk about on this podcast. Okay, so I want to talk about markets. Markets today. Markets. I saw a tweet. I think it was Ferris Holiday, one of the bigs. I. I'm sorry, guys, I can't remember who posts what. Nowadays you all post so much and I just can't keep track of it. Somebody big and important posted something that literally just said, like the markets are basically everything. Everything that happens to your business within the next like, you know, 12 to 18 months are just indicative of whatever the market decides for your specific business. Which I would tend to agree with this. I find it interesting though because one of the things, one of the comments that was in there talked about the fact, well, good markets will good product, not markets. Good product will create demand. Right. So you can like get into a market with products and generate your own demand inside there. I disagree with this.

[Nate]

I think like market trends are headwinds and tailwinds. You can beat them for a time, especially if you're small. Especially if you're sub 50 million a year. Yeah, but like it matters. It's going to affect how efficiently you grow or not grow. It's going to affect like, like last year we grew a bunch. We grew more than the watch industry. I think we would grow more than the, the gift for guys market, if there's such a thing. But it was hard.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

Like, so much went into it. And I know if we had done all the work last year, if we had taken all that work and copy and pasted it to 2020.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

We would have done four times the revenue that year than we did this past year. So, like, it is 100% going to affect what you're doing and how you have to go about it. I also think it's dangerous to use it as an excuse.

[Sarah]

Oh, okay. I would agree with that. Okay, so follow up question before we dive into that. How much of your growth do you think is based on market wins? Like, what percentage of your growth was based on what the market was doing at that point? And when I say market, I mean, like, what the consumers were doing behaviorally. That's what we're talking about. When we say market.

[Nate]

Yeah, I'd say a minority. Whoa.

[Sarah]

Oh, okay. You and I are like, on opposite.

[Nate]

Yeah, I'd say 25%.

[Sarah]

That's it. So you think 25% of your growth was due to just what people were doing in the culture, in the economy, in their. Wow. Okay. I would tend to disagree. I think it's probably more closer to 75% of your growth.

[Nate]

Oh, great. We're on perfect opposites.

[Sarah]

I almost said 80, and then I was like, oh, we'll make the math easy. 75. 75%. I truly believe for most brands, not all, depending on which industry you're in. Now, if you sell rabbit racing harnesses, I don't know that the culture is really going to affect you a lot.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

But watches? Yeah. Man, you guys are in this really interesting time period because politically, the country is moving in a very specific direction which aligns with the people that you sell to. Often not all of them, but most of them are going to align to what's happening politically. They're also going to align economically because their finances are going to change based upon who's in office. That's also going to affect how they shop because they're going to be much more aligned with how secure they feel or what's happening in his or her jobs or what's happening in their friend base, their family base, their communities. So it's top level down, man. Global affects the micro markets, I think, affect us way more than we believe. So this came, this entire tweet came from a training that I did on generational psychology with an agency this week. Shout out to. To that agency. You guys are crushing it. Also, if you want to get more information on, like, how to train with Sarah, come find me on Twitter. Outside of that shameless plug. One of the concepts that came out of that training was the fact that I posed the question, does anybody know why nootropics mushroom based coffees like brain health products are booming right now? Does anybody? Do you know, I should ask you this question.

[Nate]

Do you know?

[Sarah]

Yeah. Why is brain health the biggest trend.

[Nate]

Is because all of our parents are getting older and we're seeing them forget.

[Sarah]

So that's a good guess, but no.

[Nate]

No, I don't know.

[Sarah]

Brain products in particular have boomed in the last probably five to seven years because of large scale Internet use. So I would say probably up to 10 years before this it was microbiome. Microbiome was the biggest trend, like health trend that everybody was like, we got to get microbiome, microbiome. And then all of a sudden somewhere in like 2008 to 2015 ish, we saw like this, this really weird trend come up where everybody was like if you can't think, if you can't focus, if you have brain fog, if you've got issues with adhd, if you can't concentrate, it's because your brain needs mushrooms all of a sudden. And this correlated with large scale Internet use.

[Nate]

So because we're destroying our brains, our brains are like, hey, tap on the shoulder. Can we help me out up here?

[Sarah]

Exactly. The brain is like I'm and tired. Is there anything we can do to like help me not be so distracted all the time? Brain health is, is trending because of a very distinct human behavior started to rise.

[Nate]

So do you think like I any, any nootropics company that grew last year, I would attribute 75% of it to the market growing. Yeah, I don't know and maybe I'm just trying to take too much credit did last year. But like the watch market's not new. Yeah, it's not a very old overall from the data that I've seen, watches other category were down last year.

[Sarah]

Yes, they were.

[Nate]

But like new markets, 100%. It's like, yeah, hey, I mean like if he's like the probably biggest and best example is like if you started a face mask company in 2019.

[Sarah]

You.

[Nate]

Probably crushed it and benefited from the market a little bit.

[Sarah]

100. Yep. Yep. Interestingly enough, people think that they're in one market. You are not in one, you are in multiple.

[Nate]

Yeah, you're in all of them.

[Sarah]

You're in all of them. Technically.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You have a primary, you have a primary market that you follow which is almost always product selected. So you're in Watches, clearly, you're also in jewelry, you're also in gifting. You're also in commemorative or sentimental gifts. Right. You're also basically just in, like, generalized menswear. So you have a lot of different markets that you're attached to. If watches are down, one of the other markets is probably holding you up.

[Nate]

Yeah. Okay. That's fair.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Yeah. So this is why I say good product does not create demand. Please stop saying that because it's not freaking true. Good products respond to demand that already exists.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

In several different markets.

[Nate]

And like, we've talked about this with, like, messaging and content to. No one is doing demand generation. And I think, like, that's the theory here is like, you know, I sell a watch because men want to feel confident.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

That need for confidence and status is not new. Is not something I implanted in them from my Facebook ads. That's been in our brains.

[Sarah]

Yep.

[Nate]

So I think that's something that people think of. And yeah, like, we talk about, you know, can we launch new. Either watches or new product collections that grow our tam. Yeah, but it. But that's not creating a new market. That's just like, can we tap into a market that exists already?

[Sarah]

Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Well, I completely agree that at the end of the day, you're. You're really going to have to start to focus a little bit more on, like, what your market does. Which is interesting because I think people start studying their markets and they think that means studying my competitors. That is not. That's not studying your market.

[Nate]

Yep.

[Sarah]

That's studying competitors.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And almost always, especially in D2C, all we do is study competitors until you get to a large enough, like, size where you start to like, oh, yeah, we gotta start marketing everything else. So. But everybody has a sister industry that they're attached to. I talk about this all the time. You're attached to all kinds of different things, so. Yeah. Yeah, man.

[Nate]

The only thing, the only, like, competitor research I do is I look at Rolex ads from the 70s and 80s.

[Sarah]

Rolex? Why Rolex in particular?

[Nate]

Because that's how they built a brand to what it is today. They were on a crazy hot streak of messaging for a couple decades.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

This is when they were all the admin were just drinking whiskey and doing coke all day, I think. And they produced really great results.

[Sarah]

Maybe get some cocaine in your ass.

[Nate]

I've been saying it for a while.

[Sarah]

Okay. All right. Don't do drugs. Kids don't do.

[Nate]

But you can do half. Do half of what anyone offers you would probably be safe.

[Sarah]

Jesus. Okay. Rolex though.

[Nate]

No, but like I, I, I think, oh God. I like, I think the, the market I'm in today benefits from the Swiss giants of watch.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

The last hundred years. And like that's what I think is really fascinating because I think the closer you get to ground zero of your market, the closer you get to the real reasons people are buying, you can build products that better fulfill those needs. It'll be the same thing with the nootropic thing. It'll be interesting to see like how that messaging changes over the next decade when it's like, well, we know why it's happening now is because we're all staring at screens for 16 hours a day and our brains are screaming, screaming for relief and protection from that.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

But it's going to be interesting to be like, does that just replace coffee entirely one day and now it's just messaged and marketed as your morning beverage rather than like a brain healing thing?

[Sarah]

Yeah, it's totally possible. I mean Starbucks came distinctly. Their rise of Starbucks, speaking of coffee, came at a very specific time where people were actually starting to work outside of like their offices. Right. So they were doing hybrid kind of like in early Starbucks days. So people were not only looking for convenience and basically consistency, they were looking for a place that every time I go, I know what kind of coffee I'm going to be able to get. They were also looking for a place where they could basically have like a second home or a second office. So Starbucks capitalized on two market like behavioral trends that were happening right at the right time. So some of this is luck. Like that's what Sarah's kind of trying to say. It's like some of this is just lucky. But for you guys, for original grain, because of the market that you're tailored to this hard working, blue collar, very like family oriented, community focused guy and his like wife or significant other. This particular customer type has not been spoken to a lot over the course of the last like you know, 10 years. But right before about like the Trump era, right now they're starting to gain a voice.

[Nate]

Not been popular.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it really has.

[Nate]

Strong leading men have not been popular. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yes. Well and we need, I wait, ah, I want to, to dig deeper into these issues on this podcast because we need to talk about the fact that like the way people feel about themselves at home is going to directly affect what they purchase out there. So this customer type is, is really hurting a lot right now and because of things that are happening in the Political landscape. They're now starting to feel like we can go out and we can actually kind of for the lifestyle that we believe in. So they're purchasing products to validate that.

[Nate]

Well. And you know what I just thought of, too? I'll take back my 25%. I'll give you 50.

[Sarah]

Hey, there it is. There it is. There it is. Okay.

[Nate]

Because you know what market we play in. That's crushing.

[Sarah]

Oh, what?

[Nate]

Whiskey.

[Sarah]

Oh, so true.

[Nate]

So that's it.

[Sarah]

Always whiskey, man. Yep. Yep. Especially for you guys because you have so many good partnerships set up with all of these different, like, yeah, well, yeah.

[Nate]

And like, we can talk about. About, like, oh, like, yeah, we grew whatever percent. The Jack Daniels partnership we launched in May.

[Sarah]

That didn't hurt either. Yeah, like, that didn't hurt either. Yeah.

[Nate]

Another brand that's been like. Like, not the. Not the same as Rolex in their world, but like a giant powerhouse that's dominated for 100 years. And it's like, yeah, tapping into that.

[Sarah]

Yeah. So again, and this is not to, like, shame Nate's progress or like, his contribution to what I'm good at.

[Nate]

Anyone in my organization is listening to this.

[Sarah]

He's very, very good at what he does.

[Nate]

Don't think I'm a value member of the team.

[Sarah]

This is why you have to hire a players in your ecosystem, is that you should go back and listen to Hexclad. Joanna from Hexclad. She was fantastic. She did a whole entire episode with us about really just driving home. You got to have good people on your team. Because again, had Nate not noticed, had he not identified the places where he was going to be best suited to catch the wind, you guys would not be sailing as comfortably as you are right now. So you got to have people to notice.

[Nate]

Well, and that's why I wanted to take more credit. I'm like, we chose to partner with J.

[Sarah]

Yes. As you should. And you should continue to partner with all of the entities that your particular customer type identifies with, because you'll just. You'll go faster, Faster, faster, faster, faster.

[Nate]

I know, I know. We're going to be working with Tether Insights soon, officially. I can't wait to tell you about some of the collabs we're thinking about.

[Sarah]

Yes. Shameless bug. Tether Insights. I run a consumer insights brand. If you're in the DTC industry and you want to understand your customers better and get insights into the actual consumer, what would you call them, cultural movements that are currently happening in and around your industry, identify those sister Industries that you can catch and actually sail with. You should come over to Tether Insights, because that's what we study. So do it. That's what we're Shameless. Plug. Is that a good place to end? Should we talk more about this?

[Nate]

I mean, listen to Tackle podcast and follow me on Twitter at Legos. But, yeah, now we can edit.

[Sarah]

Wow. Okay. Follow Nate Legos. Go. Listen to Tagal Practical. He's actually. What do they call that? Certified on Twitter. No blue chat.

[Nate]

Verified on Twitter.

[Sarah]

You're verified. Thank you.

[Nate]

Which, in case you thought I'm lying about my success, I've got an eight. An extra eight bucks a month. I'm not afraid to blow on a check mark.

[Sarah]

So you're a big spender.

[Nate]

Things must be going pretty good. I also recently subscribed to Sean Frank's private tweets for a dollar a month. So what?

[Sarah]

He has private tweets?

[Nate]

He. Yeah, he's got subs now I need private. Yeah, it's all, like, stock advice that I don't understand, but I'm paying for it so far.

[Sarah]

Get over there, pretend you're smart. You'll learn something. It'll probably be fine. I have not been verified. Sorry to everybody out there. It's out of principle alone. I just. I don't know. I don't like paying for stuff I need. I need a loan is what I really need. Like, I need some help. I'm not doing well. No, it's fine. Everything's fine. I just. It's the principle. I just didn't want to pay somebody for. For a blue check mark that says, like, hey, you're a cool person. I don't know. I was like, that's weird. I feel weird about that.

[Nate]

Okay, thanks for making me feel good about it.

[Sarah]

You should do it.

[Nate]

All right.

[Sarah]

I feel bad. It's fine. That's the end. Oh, wait, we're supposed to say, have a nice time or a day that you had.

[Nate]

Listen. Listen to Tactical and practical because.

[Sarah]

Because. Go listen to that. Because episode that we just did. That was a good one, too. You guys are great. Subscribe, like, share please. It helps me so much. Also, have a good day. Enjoy your life.

[Nate]

The Brain Driven Brands podcast is part.

[Sarah]

Of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast network.