How to Build a Creative Team that “Gets it” (Feat. Joanna Wallace)

Summary

Brain Driven Brands: How to Build a Creative Team that “Gets it” (Feat. Joanna Wallace)
Released on December 12, 2024

In this insightful episode of Brain Driven Brands, host Sarah Levinger welcomes Joanna Wallace, the Director of Paid Media Creative at Hexcloud, to delve into the intricacies of building a creative team that not only generates innovative ideas but also effectively executes them. The conversation spans from managing the challenges of a hyper-creative mind to leveraging humor in advertising, providing listeners with actionable strategies to enhance their e-commerce brand’s marketing efforts.

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1. The Creative Mindset: Embracing ADHD in Marketing

The episode kicks off with Sarah and Joanna bonding over their similar marketing approaches, attributing their rapid idea generation and high energy to ADHD. Joanna humorously remarks, “[00:23] B: On the, like, freakish fast forward, like, 1.75 speed, and everyone else is like, slow down, slow down.” Sarah echoes this sentiment, highlighting the double-edged sword of ADHD—“It's incredibly helpful, though, until you start to have to use things in your environments” ([00:37] A).

This shared understanding sets the stage for discussing how a fast-paced brain can be both an asset and a challenge in creative marketing.

2. Organizing Creative Chaos: From Ideas to Execution

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the difficulty of organizing the multitude of ideas that come from a creative mind. Sarah points out, “There's a serious, like, amount of people that I talk to that are constantly asking for, do you have a system?” ([02:41] A). Joanna agrees, emphasizing that while idea generation is plentiful, the true challenge lies in structuring these ideas into actionable strategies.

Joanna shares her personal methods, such as texting herself ideas at any moment and maintaining organized "buckets" to categorize and prioritize these concepts. “I think, honestly, just get it on the damn page and organize it” ([07:27] B) becomes a mantra for managing creative overflow.

3. Building a Winning Creative Team: Complementary Strengths

Joanna outlines her strategic approach to team building, focusing on self-awareness and complementing her strengths and weaknesses. “You gotta round yourself out… partner yourself with somebody who brings something to the table that you don't bring and you balance each other out” ([09:03] B).

Key Roles in Joanna’s Team:

• Alyssa: The organized executor who balances Joanna’s creative chaos. Joanna praises Alyssa’s ability to create structured templates and manage organizational systems.

• Paige Phillips: An actress with a strong background in content creation and production. Paige brings a human and comedic perspective to the team, challenging ideas and adding depth to advertising concepts.

• Will Dove: The lead editor with a graphic eye, ensuring that the visual elements of ads are both beautiful and functional.

Joanna emphasizes the importance of hiring individuals who not only excel in their specific roles but also contribute to a cohesive and dynamic team dynamic. “Everybody on your team has some sort of comedic, humorous background” ([16:40] B), which ties into her strategy of using humor effectively in advertising.

4. The Role of Humor in Advertising: Engaging and Relatable

Humor emerges as a central theme in the conversation, with both Sarah and Joanna advocating for its use in ads to build rapport and affinity with audiences. Joanna explains, “Humor is tough because it's subjective… but there is basically generalized or global humor that exists” ([21:48] A).

She provides practical examples of how Hexcloud leverages humor without overcomplicating it:

• Creating relatable and simple jokes, such as referring to their pepper grinder as a self-defense tool based on customer comments.
• Ensuring humor remains accessible and doesn’t alienate audiences by keeping jokes straightforward and relatable.

Joanna stresses that humor should enhance the message without requiring the audience to decipher complex jokes. “You have to make it easily absorbable” ([21:26] B).

5. Volume vs. Precision: Embracing High-Volume Idea Generation

Joanna advocates for generating a high volume of ideas rather than limiting to a few refined concepts. “It's probably better than less, honestly because I would so much Rather you have too many and then select the ones that you think that are going to be great than have none at all” ([30:27] A).

This approach allows for greater experimentation and increases the likelihood of discovering high-performing ads. Joanna shares Hexcloud’s strategy during peak seasons like Black Friday, where they produced around a thousand ads to ensure a diverse array of options. “We threw so much stuff at the wall and tried so many different visuals and angles” ([28:26] B).

6. Managing Creativity and Idea Generation: Systems for Success

To handle the influx of ideas, Joanna emphasizes the need for robust organizational systems:

• Brain Dumping: Encouraging team members to freely generate and document ideas without immediate judgment.
• Prioritization Frameworks: Using systems like green, yellow, and red lights to categorize ideas based on their priority and relevance to ongoing campaigns.
• Collaborative Tools: Utilizing shared documents and calendars to keep track of ideas and ensure they are revisited and evaluated regularly.

Sarah concurs, highlighting the importance of having all ideas documented to revisit valuable concepts that might otherwise be forgotten. “You have to have multiple brains… some of them are going to be really good, and some of them are like, no, that was a bad idea” ([30:56] A).

7. Team Dynamics and Complementary Skills: The Heart of Creativity

Joanna underscores the importance of having a team with diverse skills that complement each other. From creative strategists to editors with comedic backgrounds, each team member plays a pivotal role in creating engaging and effective ads. “Having roles that cover different aspects: idea generation, execution, storytelling, editing, etc.” ([Text inferred].

The interplay between creativity and organization, combined with humor and strategic execution, forms the backbone of Hexcloud’s successful advertising campaigns.

8. Final Insights and Key Takeaways: Making Advertising Fun

As the conversation wraps up, both Sarah and Joanna emphasize the significance of enjoying the creative process. Joanna shares, “Paid advertising should be fun. If you're not having fun, it's going to come out in your ads” ([26:12] B). This philosophy not only enhances team morale but also translates into more authentic and engaging advertisements.

9. Follow Joanna Wallace: Stay Connected and Inspired

For listeners eager to implement these strategies, Joanna encourages connecting through various platforms:

• Instagram: Joanna’s Instagram – Showcasing her artistic endeavors.
• Twitter: @JoWall202 – Engaging with her thoughts and updates.
• LinkedIn: Joanna Wallace – Professional insights and networking.

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Notable Quotes:

• Joanna Wallace [02:51]: “Hire an organized unicorn.”
• Sarah Levinger [07:27]: “I think the more organized. If you hire a crazy organizer, you can get it into a spreadsheet where you have sort of the product that it's for and the Persona and all that stuff.”
• Joanna Wallace [16:40]: “Alyssa claims she's not funny. And it's. That's funny.”
• Sarah Levinger [22:16]: “Relatability is the key to humor.”
• Joanna Wallace [26:26]: “I get paid to be creative every single day. And that's wild.”

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This episode offers a comprehensive blueprint for building a creative team that not only generates innovative ideas but also effectively organizes and executes them. By embracing humor, fostering complementary skills within the team, and maintaining a high volume of ideas, e-commerce brands can enhance their marketing strategies and captivate their target audiences.

For more insights into advanced neuromarketing strategies and psychological tactics for e-commerce brands, follow Brain Driven Brands on all major podcast platforms and join the conversation on social media.

Transcript

[A]

Joanna Wallace, everybody. Thanks for coming on the show. We're doing the show today. It's gonna be great. Welcome to Break Driven Brands. Joanna, you're my favorite. You're just. I love talking to you every day. Yeah, we have a lot in common, I think, just because you and I, I think we look at marketing very similarly, and I think our brains are.

[B]

On the, like, freakish fast forward, like, 1.75 speed, and everyone else is like, slow down, slow down.

[A]

Could you just be normal? This. It's the adhd, is what it is. It's really the adhd.

[B]

It really is.

[A]

It's incredibly helpful, though, until you start to have to, like, use things in your environments. Like, my computer smokes on the daily because I'm sitting here typing so fast because my brain is moving at like, 100 miles an hour trying to get all these ideas out, and my computer's like, give me a. Give me a second. Seconds.

[B]

This why my dog won't hang out in my office. And he only hangs out in my husband's office. Because my husband's like, the chill one.

[A]

The dog's like, her energy. Her energy.

[B]

My husband's out of town, and I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm really appreciating this.

[A]

Mine actually sleeps, like, in behind me, but I think it's because he's so deaf now and so old that he can't hear me talk. Poor child. Like, let's be real.

[B]

Sweet, sweet release.

[A]

Poor, sweet child of, like, silence. Thank you so much for joining me. I. I can't wait to talk to you mostly because you obviously, you. Okay, give me your, like, official title. You're like, a big deal in. In the hex class.

[B]

Oh, very, very. No, Very important. Yeah, no. Director of Paid Media Creative.

[A]

Oh, my God. Well, and I remember you and I met recently. Actually. We've been. We've been besties for, like, maybe three, four months, a little bit longer, probably, like six months somewhere in there. But the interesting part is, is, like, I've kind of watched you morph and watched you work, and I'm like, she's got something interesting. And again, I think it's the adhd, but I also think a lot of it is just how you see paid advertising in general. So obviously hexcloud has been doing crazy numbers. Really, really good growth. They've. I mean, they've been at the forefront for the industry for a long time. But one of the things that I kind of wanted to talk about twofold. I want to talk about your sense of Humor, because it's great. But I also want to talk about, like, what we were talking about before we got on the recording, which is kind of. How do you. I don't even know how to say it. How do you take idea and put it into strategy and then put it into tactics and then put it out into the world? Like, there's a serious, like, amount of people that I talk to that are constantly asking for, do you have a system? Right. What's the system for getting idea into ad? And people can generate ideas all the time, but it's the organization piece that we're all missing. Everybody.

[B]

I know it's the hardest part. And especially because, like, creatives, Some of some creatives are hyper organized and those are unicorns, and I hire them. Thank you, Alyssa.

[A]

Hire an organized unicorn.

[B]

Oh, my God. I need to have a counterpart who's like that super organized spreadsheet brain. So I'm allowed to be the, like, crazy analog. And they're like, no, I'm going to write this down 100%. So actually, no, that's a really good. That's a really good point. So I think it starts with. I think as a creative, you know, oftentimes we pivot as we have had jobs. So I was in journalism. I was in late night. I was in documentaries. And as you get used to your job and your industry, you need to train your brain to see ads everywhere. So I think it, like, comes naturally to some people because, you know, if you're a workaholic and you're thinking about it for 10 hours a day and then you go and watch TV or you go to a restaurant and you're just like, that's a cool visual. Like, I remember I trained my old agency where my boss was out to dinner, and there was this really cool fireplace with these, like, black charcoal, whatever the heck the material was. Balls.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We had Dr. Squatch at the time and we were making like so many balls jokes and footage of it. He took footage and sent it to me and he's like, I'm sure you can fit this into an ad about like, smelly, sweaty balls. I was like, yes, I can. Thank God.

[A]

That's the funniest part, though. Like, look at how much confidence he had. I think you. I think your humor is so good that you could take this and make it into something that would sell.

[B]

I mean, I got grown man.

[A]

Yeah. It's everywhere. Oh, I love this idea though, of see ads everywhere because I do the same thing. I'll just have random objects all over my desk that I just pick up constantly and just stare at and mess with. And this is something that they talk about psychologically too. If you're going to be more creative, you actually have to be more physical in your environment. Like, be less in your head, be more out there. So oftentimes, if I do any sort of like, internal work, which I haven't done in a while, somebody fly me out and do team trainings. Because I love, I love in person team tradies. They're so fun. I'll bring like a big. I have like a bucket of kids toys. I have like 100% my cruise director box of fun. So I'll bring like all these Legos. Play doh. Kinetic sand for some reason is like really visceral for the brain. And we'll just play like, we'll have the team play 15 to 20 minutes. It doesn't even take that long. But the reason I do that is because the ideas are almost always better. Now, this is anecdotal for my side, but they've done a lot of studies on like, playing with things increases creativity overall.

[B]

Well, my thing is drawing. So, like, I can't pay attention. This is. Everyone says this is the crazy inside of my brain.

[A]

Oh, I love it though. I just feel like, God, please know.

[B]

I'll even be leading a meeting and I'll be doodling and I feel like people think I may not be paying attention, but it's how I pay attention.

[A]

It's how you think, though. Yeah, that's how I think.

[B]

And if I'm not drawing in your meeting, I am not absorbing what you're saying.

[A]

She's not drawing.

[B]

No, not in the margins. All the ideas that come because I'm drawing and I'm already at the paper and I'm primed to like, just scribble my ideas 100% and then I throw them on the floor and then I never again. Which goes into the organization question that.

[A]

You had so super organized on the floor.

[B]

Right. So, yeah, I definitely have a chaotic brain and something, you know, running a department, you have to get more and more and more organized. And so, okay, so the first thing is, you know, you start to get inspired constantly. And so I have. I just text myself. So everywhere I am. I mean, like, I'll jump out of the shower and like, text myself an idea. So I try to, like, have places where it's like Instagram. I have a place where when I see something, I save it. And you know, because you're never going to Be able to, like, immediately put it into a document when you're on the fly. So it's just sort of like, have your buckets and then go back and check your buckets.

[A]

Check your buckets. That's important.

[B]

Yeah, check your buckets. And so we have kind of like, you know, a scratch pad we're still working on. How do we. We have, like, this massive document of all our ideas, but there's constantly more ideas. And so it is definitely challenging, but I think it's important. So when we go to plan a quarter, I go into that document and start looking at sort of like, okay, what's green, what's yellow, what's red? What's really important to it? This has to happen now. This has to happen in this quarter. That one's better for Mother's Day. Let's hold it. And kind of like the green light, red light, yellow light system of priority.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think the more organized. If you hire a crazy organizer, you can get it into a spreadsheet where you have sort of the product that it's for and the Persona and all that stuff. I personally think you can put a lot of effort into that in the beginning. I think, honestly, just get it on the damn page and organize it.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I agree with that percent. I love this because you segue from, like, step number one. Just see ads everywhere. Everything you look at, anything you touch, any. Anything on your phone, just write it down, write it down, write down, write down, check that resource. That's the one thing that I struggled with a lot in the beginning was I had notes everywhere, and it was like, oh, crap. I go back four months later and I'm like, this was a good idea. I can't believe. I can't believe I haven't checked this in a while.

[B]

It's like, you need the month to be your sweet. And, like, maybe just put it on your calendar. Yeah, smart.

[A]

Just. Just make it automatic that you have to go back and check that thing before you do anything else.

[B]

100%. Yes.

[A]

Everywhere, your credit card. And then go check your ad ideas. See ads everywhere. Then write it the frick down. Please write it down somewhere. It doesn't matter where it is. Double check that and then start your strategy for the month. So you guys have an interesting. Just because I've been working with the team for a little bit, and I get to, like, spy and see what you do. I love the personalities on your team because your ideas. Oh, my God, you're crazy. And I love it. Okay, so you have really good ideas. Like all your ideas are fan freaking tastic and you have a prioritization system for which ones get put where. It's the interesting part when we come together as a team and we start looking at let's do high level strategy or let's work on like what, what do you guys want to do with the actual brand in Q1, those type of things. Talk to me a little bit about how you found these people and like what their role has done, I guess for success. Because like that I think is the secondary piece. Like ideas are great, the people who execute them are critical.

[B]

You gotta round yourself out. So you gotta be really self aware and understand sort of like what are your strengths and what are your weaknesses.

[A]

Good call out. Good call.

[B]

Right? So if you go to therapy for life, you'll figure yourself out and then use that emotional intelligence to surround yourself with people who fill in the blanks. So it's your full time job, right?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I feel like over, over the years I feel like, you know, everyone talks about like work wife or like work husband, but I really think it's important to partner yourself with somebody who brings something to the table that you don't bring and you balance each other out. And so sometimes that's a media buyer where they're thinking from the media buying perspective and I'm thinking creative and we meet in the middle and it's like the most strategic creative idea in the world because those two minds melded. But the way, so the guest. So the way I build my team is what am I good at, what do I need help with and what skills like will push this, this team forward. So for example, my first hire was my friend Alyssa. She was like my work wife at my last job. We have a routine, we are a machine. She my first hire because I was a department of one. I don't need to get into intense discussions, debating things. I just need to make ads and we're on the same page. And she's incredibly good and so just get it going. She's very organized. She balances me out so that I have the crazy ideas. She's the one taking notes, writing it down, creating, get it all structured templates, you know, and she loves doing that. So this isn't like, you know, annoying work for her. She just loves creating that organizational system and I have that, you know, person that I can collaborate with who's better at that than me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My second hire was somebody who challenges me because then it's like, okay, we got the machine going, but Alyssa and I think a lot alike. We both come from Tube Science. I recruited her for my last agency, Rick House. You know, she was actually an editor at Tube Science and then moved into a creative strategist position at the last agency because she was so good. And I do think that getting strategists who have an editor background is a really great, really great idea. I would agree with the editor background. The way they communicate with editors is so much more streamlined. The way they see productions, they see it as the edit. It's so many amazing strategists come out of editors, and I love when they can make that jump if it's something they're interested in.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So second hire, her name is Paige Phillips. She also was at my last agency because I really believe that there's so many bullshitters out there in the DC world. I can raise your ROAS 5x. I'm building. I'm working on a very small team.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Let's take chances. Let's, you know, bring in all these different people.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right now I need my core people because we have to get stuff done.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Paige. The reason I brought on Paige is because, first of all, she is an actress and she has a content creation background and production background. Oh, somebody on the team. Smart. Who's great on set. Alyssa is, too. But, like, you know, Paige lives and breathes production. Because that's her.

[A]

Yes, because she likes it. Yeah, she really likes it. Interesting.

[B]

Paige also, being an actress comes at everything from this really human becoming the character place and so the human side. So she. She's like a research person. She'll come and she'll be like the advocate for the comments section. You know what I mean? And she'll be like, the people are passionate. Like, I feel, because of this.

[A]

This is why Paige and I get on these calls, and I'm like, Paige, you know? And she's like, yes, this. I'm like.

[B]

And so I bring in this person who thinks differently. They come from that actor perspective. So I have the editor perspective. I have a writer, producer of perspective. I have the actress perspective, and she challenges me because we don't agree on everything. Eliza and I agree on, like, everything, which is great. But Paige challenges us, and that's so important. And it's very much. She calls it like her Dennis Rodman. She's, like, wild and hilarious. So she gets, like, her Dennis Rodman V1, and then we get the safe Joanna version of V2. And if Dennis Rodman wins. Yes. Support you. I'm so happy. If I win. It was just so we could play it safe because you have to take these creative chances, but you also have to hedge your bets.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I'm like the, the bet. The bet hedger. And she takes those risks and they pay off. And she has this comedy background where she's this hilarious content creator. And so she comes up. I really wanted to bring on an artist. We want to start doing concept based ads. And so the people who come up with those concepts are the ones who are just on the fly, constantly making content. So she really brings, she really brings that narrative. Just getting into the Persona perspective. And then my lead editor that I brought on is a standup comic. So we have just a really funny team.

[A]

Everybody's funny.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I love working with you guys because I come in and I'm like, hey, I'm just on the wall.

[B]

And I brought him in because. Well, first of all, his, his test was just phenomenal. And I'm really, really obnoxious about edits and like this guy just blew me away. Um, and his graphics are gorgeous. And I think that something that, you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

When you have a luxury product and you're doing performance marketing, you have to find that middle ground of beauty and function. Because we're not making art. We aren't. I'm sorry. And if you think we're making art, you're going to have a really hard road of me breaking that down and telling you, please make it up.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And so it's super important to have that, you know, graphic eye because if we are doing a native video, he just brings this artistic view to it that I think a lot of editors lean into the ugly. And that's great in certain times, but you also need somebody who's very, very capable of elevating at a moment's notice.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's gotta do both. Gotta have those.

[B]

Have to be able to do both. Yeah.

[A]

I love this team. So from what I'm hearing, at least you have ideas person at the top. Joanna, you have an executor, right? In Not Paige, other one.

[B]

Alyssa.

[A]

Alyssa. Thank you. I wanted to call her Alana. I was like, it's not Alana. It's. I can't remember. So you have ideas person. And Joanna, you have an executor in. Alyssa, you have what I would call basically a storyteller or like a content creator in page. And then you have the person who has like the talent, skill to actually like build the product. The actual physical thing. What's his name? What's Your editor's name? I don't know.

[B]

Will Dove. Sorry. Will.

[A]

Will. Okay, so the nice part, okay. And this is the reason why I always love to, like, build these out in some sort of strategy system for anybody that's listening. Psychologically speaking, this, I think, is the kind of roster of the team that you should look to build in 2025. So if you're currently listening to this and you're like, I want to be Hex Lad, sorry, you probably are not going to be able to get Joanna, because she's fantastic. And I think hexclad is like, nope, nobody's taking Joanna. But build a team like Joanna built. You got to have an ideas person, you got to have an executor, you have to have a storyteller, and you have to have a good editor. If you have those four people on your team, any addition will come in and just fit right into the system. The cogs all work together, and then you're able to kind of all, I don't know, just drive the ship forward because you're all already going the same direction. One thing that I want to call out, and this is probably a good segue, Everybody, like, everybody you have on your team has some sort of comedic, humorous background.

[B]

Alyssa claims she's not funny. And it's. That's funny.

[A]

She's hilarious.

[B]

I know she's on my doctor.

[A]

I'm like, you are so funny. She's like this quiet, kind of like, highbrow funny, though.

[B]

Like, yeah, she's not telling a million jokes, but when she tells one, it's.

[A]

Like, yeah, she just drops it and leaves it. I'm like, you're quality.

[B]

I'm quantity over quality. She's quality over quantity.

[A]

She's got that classy humor that's like, this is going to be funny. Here you go. And I'm like, you're so funny. No slapstick humor on there. You know, that's. I think you and I are much more aligned in the. Like, we're just going to brash it. Every sentence is a joke team. I think the team is going to be one of the most important investments any brand can make this year. The team. Because whoever's executing that, they're going to have a direct effect on how these ads perform. It's not the ad or the design or, like, what's in it necessarily. That's a huge piece of it. But it all comes from the person who made it. So you got to have a. You gotta have a good. You have a good team. So Everybody on your team seems to have some sort of like humorous comedian type background.

[B]

And we're having that on purpose. No, I just want to be around them.

[A]

I just like funny people. So I hired a bunch of funny people basically.

[B]

Well, yeah, they ended up being very funny. But, you know, like, funny people are also very much storytellers.

[A]

Yes. Oh, yes.

[B]

And, you know, like, Will's crafting a standup set and Paige is making these wacky videos. She has a costume closet that like, I told her she needs to start renting out her costumes for Halloween.

[A]

She told me about her costume closet. I was like, what?

[B]

She's wild. It saves us a lot on props. So it's great. But I think. Yeah, yeah, I think, I think it's something where. Yeah, like I was saying before, everyone has to bring their specialty. So when Paige came on, I was like, girl, you are a research head, you know, And Alyssa, you are the one who is going to sign off on templates and proactively make a new template or a new organizational system. Yeah. So I really like found their skill sets and I said, you specifically are going to own this because everybody needs ownership that, you know, is their area that they excel and they build out.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But we have been having some success with humor, which is really exciting because humor is really hard to do in Dr. And I'm just so excited that we're finding ways to make it work because I think that we do a lot of buy, buy, buy, buy, buy. But I think that with our product in particular, we have a longer consideration time. So it's a month to 12 months. So I don't need to make you, I don't need to sell you necessarily in March. I need to start making you think and like our company in March. And maybe you'll convert over Labor Day. Maybe you'll convert over this.

[A]

Like, oh, this is exactly what Sarah talks about all the time. People stop thinking that this is like a one day click, seven day view issue. This has nothing to do with happened this week. Every single purchase that somebody makes has been inside their brain for months, usually years before it happens. So I love that you're thinking about this, especially at the top level because now it takes the pressure off the team, really. It's like we're not here to make a sale every single day. That's going to naturally happen. As long as we're making good content and it resonates with the people that we're trying to pull in, it's going to sell.

[B]

Maybe laypeople don't think like this. But to me, it's when I see a really good ad from a company or you actually manage to entertain me instead of annoy me, I'm like, good on you.

[A]

I know. Then I feel like a little bit of affinity. I respect you.

[B]

The next time your commercial comes along, I'm like, I have a good feeling about you. You made me laugh.

[A]

Yes. Made me laugh.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. There's something about laughter in particular, like humor between humans is, like, really visceral for generating good relationships and generating good rapport with somebody. There's lots of science around that. The other part is, though, that's really interesting. I think some of the biggest brands in the world that are growing exponentially use humor in all of their ads. Obviously, I talk about True Classic all the time. I never have another example. But like, True Classic. True Classic does it. And then Liquid Death.

[B]

Liquid Death does it all the time.

[A]

Dr. Squatch humor. Like all of the big dudes, all the big Brians, they're all using humor, all of them.

[B]

Something I see a lot of people try to do is to get a little bit too conceptual. And you have to. It has to be so easily absorbable. The average person has to immediately. You don't. You don't want them to have to think twice. So it's the same principles that you apply when you're doing doctor Headlines. You can't change that when you do comedy. You have to still be incredibly, incredibly use those best practices and not abandon them for, you know, a different type of comedy. You're still making an ad, so you still need to keep it within the. It's easily absorbable, it's short, it's to the point, um, you know, nobody. It's not a thinker.

[A]

Yep. Yeah. Humor is tough because it's subjective. And we talk. I've talked about this in a few different places, but I think I did a post on Twitter about it a while ago. Um, humor is interesting because depending on who reads it, they're either going to think it's funny or it's not. Right. But there is basically generalized or global humor that exists. Right. If somebody, like slips and falls on something, everybody's probably going to banana peel.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

People are going to think it's funny mostly. Especially in the US because we grew up with that. Like we saw. Saw it all the time on cartoons and it became a part of the culture. So if you can understand what's globally funny, I would rather go that direction than try and make it so incredibly complex. Like, make the joke complex. Like, don't go complex, please. Make it just generally funny. Right.

[B]

And you gotta do that.

[A]

You gotta. Oh, yes. Relatability is the key to humor.

[B]

Well, yeah. And you also have to make it relatable, but you also have to think about the fact that, like, you know your product so well.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And what you find funny. You know, like, I have joke. Like, we have jokes that are funny because we know about the technology of the hybrid, you know, coding.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Nobody else is gonna find that funny. Nobody else knows about, like, you know, why we chose hexagons and, like, how it's interesting. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I have to go more high level of like, oh, damn my, you know, egg keeps sticking to my pan. I'm a terrible cook. Yes. Just make it, you know, very high level. You're in your bubble, you're in your tunnel. And nobody else cares as much as your about your brand as you do or knows as much about your brand as you do.

[A]

Yes. I told, I think I told Nate this the other day that, like, I think we estimated that consumers are probably seeing maybe, maybe 3 to 5% of the brand that we are like just involved in. 3 to 5% every year. That's all they're seeing. It's itty bitty little, just like a window. So again, if you can use humor to make them laugh during that window that they saw you, you have a much higher chance of keeping them in the brand and stuff. I can't handle it. So fun.

[B]

And one more big thing is two ways that you can do this. One, one way is you need to live in your comments because people are funny and the people will tell you the humor direction that works for them. So, for example, we have hex mills, which are our pepper grinder and our salt grinder.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And these babies are like hardcore. They have the small ones, which are delicate and light, but they also like these, these guys are big, right? And like, I can go grab one, but, like, they're heavy and they're substantial. They're so substantial and I love them so much. And I joke that women should leave them by their front door in case there's an intruder and just like whack them. But that's amazing.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So we saw all these comments of like, best grinder ever. Also can be used as a weapon. Like, this is for self defense. Like, I leave this by my bed.

[A]

My self defense pepper grinder.

[B]

Like, that's what people are saying.

[A]

It's so funny.

[B]

Follow that and then we started making static ads that was like, the pepper grinder you don't want to fuck with or like, oh, my God, can be used as a weapon. Also the best pepper grinder I've ever used with like a disclaimer at the bottom. It's like, please don't use it.

[A]

Yeah. And how did they work?

[B]

Part of the joke and.

[A]

Yeah, do they work really well?

[B]

We've had a few that have worked for sure. And we've also kind of tried to show you the quotes that they came from, but I think that honestly, like, showing quotes can be really tricky because why would you believe me? You know, like, yes, they did come from real reviews. But, like, I understand if you don't believe me. I think with that it's sort of give them the humor. Don't try to make them necessarily believe that it was coming from something. Like, just. Just give them the fun.

[A]

Yeah, just give them the humor. Well, especially because if it's funny, they don't care where it came from. Like, I don't care. Whoever made it up was a funny person. And we're just gonna laugh because it's funny.

[B]

Yeah, but that's. And that's anecdotal too. So, for example, Paige did this really funny video where it's like, Gordon says a vp, she tries to tries it out. Gordon says a vp, she tries it out. She's a terrible cook. It's really funny, blah, blah, blah. But she's like, slip. She called it. She wants to do the flippity poo with the egg because. And she's like, my roommate keeps calling it the slippy slippery slidey egg pan. And so we did a funny video with my husband who was trying to influence his wife me algorithm so that I would get more hexclad ads. We have this thing of him being like the slippery slidey egg pan. That's what the people are calling it. And if you've seen all these egg pads, that's what you consider the hex clad pan.

[A]

Which is funny because it kind of. It's reminiscent of like an infomercial. Because that's what they used to do on infomercials is they used to make up really weird words. It's also slidy.

[B]

It's like, they're not like. It totally is, but the raised stainless steel ridges, they're like, no, it's slidy, slippery sliding.

[A]

And it's funny. People just. You can't take paid advertising so seriously. That's what like the. If you don't take Anything else from this podcast? Take this. Don't take it so seriously. Like, paid advertising should be fun. If you're not having fun, it's going to come out in your ads.

[B]

Oh, I'm having a great time. I tried to be a comedy writer in Hollywood. That didn't work out. But now I get to confuse. Now I get off on like a funny headline and I'm like, yes.

[A]

I'm like, that's funny. Because some, you know, somebody out there is going to laugh at that a lot and possibly share it with a ton of people who are also going to laugh at it. So you know what? Dreams come true.

[B]

They do come true. You know, you find your way to have your fun. And I always say to my team, I'm like, guys, this is so fun.

[A]

Like, we get to be so fun. Like, yes. And oh My God, yeah, 100%. And what we get to do all day long is just make fun stuff. Like we make funny videos of, like, we get to dream and come up with concepts and like, people, paid advertising should be fun. Oh, my God. Okay.

[B]

I get paid to be creative every single day. And that's wild. That's number one thing I want. That's all I wanted out of my life. It was like, how do you do it if you are a revenue generating creative. Creative. You have more job security than if you're making your own fun thing on the side.

[A]

Yep, yep. Because they're just. Your team is crushing it. And like, I don't know, in a way that's just very different. You guys have a very different way of thinking about ads. So thank you for coming.

[B]

Wait, what's different about it? Now I'm curious.

[A]

Oh, you want my take on it? You guys have an interesting, you guys have like a very interesting, like mental way that you process through ads. So I've seen some of the internal documents that you guys have, and they're robust. Like, you guys just dump out ideas, whereas some of the other teams that I work with are very, like, structured. Right. So they'll have, they'll have a decent spreadsheet, but it's not, it's not very long. Right. Like, they'll just. These are the concepts that we're doing and then we'll just do iterations of these, which again, not a bad strategy to use. But I love the fact that you guys brain dump consistently. You guys constantly come up with new, new, new. There's just net new ideas constantly being funneled in. And that's pretty rare, I think.

[B]

And that's Actually how we got our Black Friday to be so varied. So like our Black Friday. Jesus Christ. We made like a thousand ads. I'm not even kidding.

[A]

Oh my God. For that one holiday, whoa.

[B]

I didn't have a single wrinkle before this holiday. It looks like damn baby. But somebody, one of our freelancers actually was like, how do you have so much variety? Because so many people, it's like you're iterating on what you had during the year. You have a few standard that you used last year, you come back to them. And our thing was like we threw. Well, we did lots of scaling, but we also just threw so much stuff at the wall and tried so many different visuals and angles and all that stuff that by the time we got to Black Friday we actually had a huge pool, massive backlog. So yeah, I feel like a lot of people get stuck in scaling and then you end up with like three concepts that are working. And you can get through Black Friday with three concepts that are working. But I don't recommend it. And I also use Black Friday is like this is going to get me through all the sales next year because this is where all the money gets spent. This is how I can get a three weeks worth of analysis in two hours based on spending. And now I know for whatever other things happen for sales next year. Look at that bank that I now.

[A]

Oh yeah, 100% well. And it's interesting because like I said, you guys know your customers so incredibly well that usually for big teams or small teams I suggest like go slower. Right. Do precision, focus. Like test very carefully. Go for statics and then go for video. But you guys are probably one of the only teams that I'm like, I think you guys should probably to go for volume whenever you can because you know the message like you guys understand it well enough that you don't have to test as format.

[B]

So we have the luxury of being able to test a lot. And so when you are a smaller company, you know, you really have to be stingy. You really have to worry about every penny. And we have the luxury of just being. Being able to test more. Yeah. Which is, which is really exciting. You know, as a creative, it's just really hard to reduce your ideas down.

[A]

Oh my gosh.

[B]

That's a huge. We end up overworking because we can't reduce our ideas. But it's a problem I'd rather have than just blank paging it and just.

[A]

Oh my gosh. More I think is probably better than less, honestly because I would so much Rather you have too many and then select the ones that you think that are going to be great than have none at all. And it's like, well, we only have four ideas to work with, so I guess we'll just do this. Get all your ideas out of your head, because some of them are going to be really good, and some of them are going to be like, no, that was a bad idea.

[B]

But. But a bad idea can trigger a good idea.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I just literally, even when we're coming up with, like, when we have a sale and then we figure out bundle names or the sale name, and we'll just like, brain dump. And I'll even just put in words like special or collection. And I'm like, I don't know where I'm going with it, but this word feels really good with bundle. So, like, you guys may have the front half of this, but, like, inspire. Try figuring out something with this one.

[A]

It's so important to have multiple brains. Where can people find you? Because I could talk about this for the next five hours, but we're gonna have to end somewhere. Where can people find you if they want to follow, if they want to see what you guys doing also, just go, like, just pick your brain for humorous things.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Let's see. So Instagram. I am the painted bark, because I paint on wood. I paint animals on wood.

[A]

I need to see this.

[B]

And then I think Twitter. I'm like, Jo Wall 202. I, like, don't use Twitter enough. I'm supposed to. And then LinkedIn is. I love LinkedIn. Oh, who was it, Elon Musk that said, you're a loser if you use LinkedIn.

[A]

You're, like, the only one I've ever heard that likes LinkedIn. Everybody's, like, just shitting on it constantly. I'm like, LinkedIn is actually kind of nice.

[B]

I took it almost, like, every day. I learned a lot. I mean, you have to take it with a grain of salt, but I learned a lot. I've met so many people who I've hired. Through LinkedIn.

[A]

Yeah, through LinkedIn. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. If you message me at the right time. Like, I don't want to deal with, like, a really long process trying to find a freelancer. Like, yes.

[A]

Like, you're the one. Thank you for contacting me because I didn't want to have to vet people. Okay, go find Joanna, please. And thank you for coming on.

[B]

Don't find my home address.

[A]

Like, don't follow her creepily. Just follow her on all this social stuff. But yes. Go follow what the hexclad team is doing. Like, just go study their ads, because they're just. Your team is crushing it. And, like, I don't know. In a way, that's just very different. You guys have a very different way of thinking about ads, so thank you. The Brain Driven Brands podcast is part.

[B]

Of the Learn and Laugh series on.

[A]

The Quickfire Podcast network.