A (1:37)

Yeah.

B (1:37)

I think there's a way to get good at it, and I've seen very, very few brands take negative feedback or negative comments and use it in a way that actually increases the bottom line. Except for, like, Liquid Death. Like, I don't think I've ever seen anybody else that does it as well as they do because they literally think it's funny. They find it funny when people say, aren't you just water? Then they slap that on an ad and they're like, yes, we are.

A (2:01)

Yeah, well. And, like, I think it takes a certain amount of maybe maturity that we're missing in E commerce a lot, but also, like, just confidence in the product.

B (2:13)

Like, yeah, yeah, 100%.

A (2:15)

You know, I mean, yeah, we are great water. Like, that's what it is. And, yeah, we sell them a can for a ridiculous amount of money, but who cares? We do 700 million a year.

B (2:23)

One of the other brands that come to mind is Domino's. Do you Remember? Okay. No, you probably don't.

A (2:29)

No, I think I do, because I'm.

B (2:30)

A big Bring these up now. I'm like, nate probably doesn't know.

A (2:33)

No, because I think they went through their big, like, rebrand and re recipe when I was in, like, middle school. And I remember it because I was a big Domino's guy.

B (2:43)

Big deal. Big freaking deal. So Domino's in the, like, the late 2000s had a really bad public image because they actually had shitty pizza. Like, they were the lowest end of all of the fast. We're just saying something because it's pizza. Like, how do you fuck up pizza? But they started airing all of these, like, negative reviews in a campaign that was just like, we're sorry for sucking. The whole campaign was like, we're just sorry that we're awful sorry about that.

A (3:07)

Which is why I think. I think this hits home for so many econ brands because way too many of us are focused on sales and marketing and advertising rather than, like, building something dope.

B (3:19)

Yeah.

A (3:20)

Domino's could only capitalize that because the end of that campaign was like. And now we fixed it.

B (3:26)

Yes, and now we fixed it. Exactly. So they actually did something about the feedback, and I think that's kind of critical here.

A (3:31)

Do you know what's so sad in our industry? When was the last time you heard someone in ecom say about a brand, man, I'd love that brand because they make the best quality thing. It never happens. All we talk about are, like, marketing tactics.

B (3:49)

Yeah. I can't think of anybody that's like, I love their product.

A (3:55)

And by the way, so bad. That should be.

B (3:59)

Oh, no.

A (3:59)

The nail in the coffin for any argument about advertising that any of us want to have.

B (4:05)

Yeah.

A (4:05)

It's like, do you make the best thing yet? Is it the most unique? Is it the highest quality? Is it the most sustainable? Is it the. Even the. The. The cheapest? It has to be the most of some attribute for you to deserve a place in the market.

B (4:21)

Yes.

A (4:21)

And, like, very, very few brands are doing that.

B (4:24)

Let's pause for just a minute. I've got myself Googling better ways to scale ads outside of Meta more and more recently. Because, let's be real, if your business only lives on Meta or Google, you're basically just renting customers instead of. When all of your ad dollars flow through the same two platforms, you're kind of just stuck. Right. It's a mental trap of, like, a little bit of learned helplessness. Costs are going to rise, controls are going to vanish, and you're Going to start to believe that there's no other way. Kind of feels like you're just pressing buttons in a machine that doesn't care if you win or lose. This is where other side comes in. They have completely rebuilt Programmatic advertising from the ground up. And this is the reason why we've partnered with them. Instead of being kind of chained to one platform, you get access to connected tv, display, native audio, mobile apps. And unlike kind of deals clunky old programmatic agencies, Otherside uses their own optimization algorithm. You can kind of think of this as kind of like a bias free decision engine that adapts in real time across every single channel. Otherside builds those pathways by hitting your customer on Netflix, Candy Crush, then Spotify. So the message kind of just feels familiar and not forced. You get unified tracking on this. So no more attribution black holes. Other side is going to give you transparent performance reports so you can finally get like cognitive clarity right on what's actually driving sales. They are already running profitable programmatic campaigns for brands across D2C, Health, Wellness, Legion, all over the place. The only question isn't if you'll work with them, it's when. And you're gonna regret waiting. So go do it today. Here's kind of the TLDR on this. They back it all with a money back guarantee, which I really appreciate. If they don't deliver on the results you're hoping for, then they're gonna refund your retainer, which in today's day and age I really, really appreciate. So if you are ready to kind of just stop renting your growth and actually start owning your scaling strategy and head over to Join the other side. Com, That's Join the Other side dot com. They are programmatic and they're rebuilt to perform. So go check them out today. And now back to the show. I can't think of anybody that's like, dang, their products are just really high quality. Unless you're like Portland leather goods, right? Where it's like you're in a luxury market anyways and you have like, and.

A (6:24)

By the way, killing it ads work really well. Go figure.

B (6:28)

The product is so good. And I think this is the reason why I, I'm kind of sad that I wasn't just like born in the early 80s and then got to advertising in the 90s and early 2000s because you really had to compete on quality of product and concept. Like your ads just had to be really, really good ads. Yeah, I love this time period that we're in. Don't get me wrong. Like, it's greatest time to be an advertiser because we just have access to so much, but it's not great. Like, everything feels a little low quality.

A (6:58)

Well. And like, I think, you know, I think a couple episodes ago, we talked about Pepsi.

B (7:03)

Yeah.

A (7:04)

And them pulling out some wild advertising stunts that have backfired time and time again. It's like, well, they don't have the best product.

B (7:11)

They don't.

A (7:12)

And I. I think. And I. I think this happens in Ecom more than we know. Like, you know, at. @ OG. I. I think we could argue we make some of the most unique watches. Like, for sure.

B (7:24)

Yeah. 100%.

A (7:26)

They're not the best.

B (7:27)

They're very.

A (7:28)

Like, we would all admit that. I'm not speaking out of turn because I don't work there anymore. Like, we're not the best, but most unique. We had that to, like, grab onto. If you are not the most. Something.

B (7:40)

Yeah.

A (7:41)

Then, like, go fix your product before you worry about marketing tactics.

B (7:44)

1. It's so interesting because Pepsi tried to become the best product quickly. Like, they did a bunch of campaigns in, like, early 2000s that said in blind taste tests, people prefer Pepsi over Coca Cola. But as soon as you show the cans, people want Coke.

A (7:57)

Yep.

B (7:58)

And that's. To me, I'm like, your brand is still a part of the product. Like, I know you want people to go after the taste, but soda drinking is not all about taste. I hate to break it to everybody.

A (8:08)

Yeah.

B (8:08)

A lot of.

A (8:09)

Imagine ordering a Jack and Pepsi at a bar. You know what I mean?

B (8:14)

I love Pepsi. I think.

A (8:15)

I think you'd get arrested.

B (8:17)

Coke. But like, it. I only order, like, Jack and Coke. That's. That's. The drink is a Jack and it's not. Yeah. Okay, so now we're gonna do rapid fire. How would you use negative comments and advertising? So I have five ads that Chat GBT has created, and we're gonna see if Nate Legos likes one of these. So we're gonna. Okay, give me a product you hate. Let's do that.

A (8:44)

Me a product I hate, you hate.

B (8:46)

Where it's just like, I would never like. They're an awful brand. You don't have to name the name.

A (8:50)

I mean, like, I don't know. Yeah, I was just like.

B (8:52)

Well, give me just the product category. How's that?

A (8:59)

I hate. I hate most CPG stuff.

B (9:02)

Oh, yeah. Beverages. Well, you're. You're very, like, particular about what you drink.

A (9:07)

Yeah, yeah. I'm just like a good old Red Bull.

B (9:10)

Yeah.

A (9:10)

Jack Daniels. Coca Cola water.

B (9:14)

We're going to imagine Sarah has created. What would we call this? Let's say it's like a lavender thc.

A (9:21)

Yep.

B (9:21)

Spritzer that I know Nate is going to love. Right. Okay.

A (9:25)

I don't think you could have made a product that I hate more than a lavender thc.

B (9:31)

It sounds so delicious. Please, somebody make this for me.

A (9:34)

Okay.

B (9:35)

We're going to pretend that Nate gave us a one star review for my lavender whatever it is beverage. Here's some of the ads that I'm going to serve you now. Okay. You tell me which one of these you would respond to and be like, all right, I can see how that. Okay, first one is the comment section campaign. I'm going to take a real negative comment or review and I'm just going to feature them boldly with the ruse. I'm going to show the one star. Think Liquid Death. On a scale of one to, like, absolutely not. How well is this ad going to convert you back to a customer?

A (10:12)

Okay. I like brands that own it.

B (10:14)

Okay.

A (10:15)

And like, depending on what that comment was, like, would be interesting. But yeah, for me, like, because I'll say, like, as much as I hate the idea of that drink, if I could be persuaded to try it, it's like, well, I mean, I don't mind like a rum and pineapple. You know what I mean? Like, I'd never admit that on a. On a podcast. That's embarrassing.

B (10:37)

All right, all right. So concept number fun. The psychology behind this is basically just reversal bias. Liquid Death uses this a lot, where they're just. They're taking something that you expect to see, reversing it, and then kind of making fun of themselves. So, all right, number one ad. Number two, the therapy session. This is where a brand is going to go to therapy to process. To process its bad reviews. So in the video, you're going to see a therapist sitting down with the brand, whatever it is, and say, it's kind of funny. How do you make. How does this make you feel? And the brain is going to reply, like, improving our formula.

A (11:11)

That. That is kind of funny.

B (11:13)

One to ten, what do you think?

A (11:14)

But I don't like therapy. So three.

B (11:18)

This is interesting because the psychology behind this is something called anthropomorphism, which basically just means we're making something inanimate have a personality or like, alive, basically. Little bit of self awareness in here. It's satirical. It's supposed to be funny. But that one didn't hit you.

A (11:35)

I. I would like the. The concept of like, humanizing the brand if it didn't have to do with therapy. Like, if this ad was instead, like, this brand at the bar, drinking alone and it's sadness, I'd be like, yep. Hey, I like that.

B (11:50)

Anything other than therapy apparently will hit Nate Legos.

A (11:53)

I'm anti therapy. I know that's a bold take in 2025, but I'm willing to defend it if I need to.

B (11:58)

I mean, you know, everybody has their own way of dealing with stuff. It's fine. Okay, so ad number one, the comment section campaign worked. Ad number two, the therapy session did not. Ad number three, we fixed it. Similar to what we've been talking about before. We're just going to do a transparent series showing the exact process of how we are going to respond to this feedback that now you would be.

A (12:21)

Okay. I would have given this a 7 until you said, we're going to show you the whole process. Now it's an eight and a half for me.

B (12:27)

Oh, okay. So you want to see how we're actually.

A (12:31)

Yeah, show me. Prove it to me.

B (12:33)

Okay. Yeah.

A (12:34)

You worked on this, like, I think.

B (12:36)

That'S Domino's kind of pizza turnaround. Yeah. Okay. All right, fascinating. So the psychology behind this one, this is earned trust through competence. Signaling. Competent signaling has to do with the fact that, like, we're going to show you we're smart enough to hear what you're saying.

A (12:49)

Basically love that.

B (12:50)

That's smart. All right, so ad number three. So far, we have two ads that hit pretty well that didn't land at all.

A (12:57)

Yeah.

B (12:57)

Okay. At number four, we read mean comments. This is gonna be very classic trope. I don't know if you've seen them. They've done this a lot with celebrities on different, like, late night shows where they'll read nasty comments about themselves. So very much just we're gonna have team members, the CEO, just read nasty comments and then watch their face respond to the nasty comment. What do you think of this one?

A (13:20)

I don't like it if they're not immediately showing how they're fixing it too.

B (13:23)

Oh. So if they're just sitting here reading, like, Nate says that.

A (13:27)

Yeah. Then I'm like, oh, you think it's a joke that you're scared?

B (13:29)

Lavender spritzer is terrible. Oh. Oh, interesting. So that comes across as, like, too much.

A (13:35)

Yeah.

B (13:35)

Like, you don't take this seriously.

A (13:37)

Oh, yeah.

B (13:38)

Interesting. You are a fascinating customer. And my brand is listening deeply. So in general, we're up to four ads, two of which hit. Two of them didn't And I find this fascinating because as a brand founder, you. It's my job to decide, let's run a fifth ad and see which way he goes. Because right now, I can tell if it's very sappy, if it's. If it's therapy focused, if it doesn't solve the freaking problem, customer Nate hates it.

A (14:05)

Yep.

B (14:06)

Oh, you're a tough cookie. Like, you're a very tough customer because you're the type of person that's like, show me how you're going to fix it. I don't care that your ad's funny.

A (14:13)

Yeah, but then I'm loyal as shit once you get me.

B (14:16)

Yes, true. You stick with brands for a long time. I will say, like, since, like, childhood.

A (14:23)

Someone asked me that the other day about Jack Daniels because, like, I, Like, I drank Jack when I was poor in college, and they were like, still.

B (14:32)

I'm like, yep, yep, it's still there. I can't tell you, man. Some of our behaviors, they get seated in there way long time ago, and they stay for years. Okay. Oh, I'm trying to decide. It gave me freaking 10 of these, so now I got to decide. Okay, here we go. All right, last one on this one. This is called the Troll hall of Fame. We're going to honor our best haters, and we're basically going to put up a hall of fame of all of the best negative comments we've ever seen and award each one based upon how right they are about our product. What do you think of this one?

A (15:07)

Not great. This.

B (15:09)

I added that this is how we're going to fix it based upon what to do.

A (15:13)

Yeah. Then it's. It's good. But I think, like, on its own, falls into that category of, like, oh, you're not, like, taking this seriously. This is seriously a joke to you. One thing that's interesting, there's. There's a guy who does YouTube golf for Barstool, and he has a new content series called, like, hater versus Him. And he takes comments or commenters who have been like, dude, you suck at golf. And he's like, all right, cool. Come play me. And they go play on camera. And, like, I think that's, like, such. He's lost a couple of them, but he's won some.

B (15:49)

I mean, at least he posts the losses. I appreciate that.

A (15:52)

Yeah. And I. I think, like. I think that's the best way to do it for. For me at least, is, like, let's find out, like, yeah. Which is why I always want to see the proof of, like, is Your product getting better or not? Because if it's not, I don't care.

B (16:06)

Well, that's the reason why we started. It's all about, like, comment about Sarah. Like, any, Any comments I see in any brand where it's, like, like, a really nasty comment or something really negative, guys take it with a grain of salt. It's very possible that person just didn't eat enough that morning.

A (16:22)

Yeah, they're just having a bad day.

B (16:23)

They're having a bad day, and they just needed somewhere to put that negative energy, and they just put it on you. A lot of times, though, if you're hearing this a lot, here's a good way to deal with this. And according to, like, this brand case study, Nate is the type of customer that needs you to show proof that you're going to do something about it. Don't just listen. Yeah.

A (16:40)

I do think, like, a, A talent or a muscle that founders need to work out is being able to distinguish and discern between, like, this person just pissed off. Or is there, like, any valid feedback?

B (16:54)

Valid.

A (16:54)

The person who said your voice was annoying was probably pissed off, if I had to guess. They tried one tactic that you mentioned once six months ago, and it didn't work because their product or brand sucks. And then they've had it in their head that, like, Sarah doesn't know what she's talking about.

B (17:12)

Yeah.

A (17:12)

And then had a bad day. Maybe you had a cold. And we're a little bit nasally, and we're like, you know what? We're gonna take this out on.

B (17:19)

All right.

A (17:20)

When it has, like, nothing to do with the content of the show. The content of what? I also wouldn't do 100 episodes of the podcast if your voice was annoying, so you've got that going for you.

B (17:31)

I was gonna say Nate's been on a lot, so he would tell me, I'm assuming also, what am I gonna do about that? Like, what am I? And this is this segue. But you gotta get tough skin if you're gonna be on the Internet, people.

A (17:42)

Yeah. It happens. Something to keep in mind, too. On the Internet, it's so easy to fire off a comment.

B (17:47)

Yeah.

A (17:48)

Like, during a bad day that you don't even really think about. And, like, this actually happened to me a couple weeks ago. You know the interaction I'm talking about where, like, this dude gave me a negative comment on Twitter and then he deleted it. And I'm petty, so I DM'd him. I was like, yo, what? What did that say? And he, I, I, I Came at it him aggressive. He came in vulnerable and open. He was like, I'm having a bad day. And I said something that was a little too aggressive and took it down. So hats off to him.

B (18:31)

Yeah, I appreciate that. That he was like, dude, I'm just having a really hard day.

A (18:35)

Well, and then like made me feel so bad for being angry about it because I'm like, oh, I've been there.

B (18:41)

We just have no idea what people are going through.

A (18:43)

Yeah.

B (18:43)

I rarely get negative comments. I think possibly because my content is so ridiculous and like so psychology focused that people don't know what I'm talking about half the time. So they can't be like, you're wrong about this. Because they're like, we don't know what Sarah's saying anyways. But also the ones that I have gotten are typically people who are right. Like they will provide studies or things. They'll just be like, I have a completely opposite view of you. I think you're wrong about this. So I always invite it. I'm like, show me the study. Because I might be finding something that's two years old and you found something that's 18 months old. You know what I'm saying? Totally fine if the science proves me wrong. But this is like grace people and branding. You got to take it.

A (19:24)

Be nice. Just be nicer to people. I didn't think this was going to turn into of those episodes, but like kind human. Yeah, I. I do think, I think Gary Vee gives the best advice on this is like, just think about how miserable that person is to take the time to write that comment today when it hurts.

B (19:43)

Like, if you think about it, I'm like, what must they be going through? Yeah, it must be pretty bad for them to be like, I gotta put this energy somewhere and I'm just gonna stick it on somebody. I don't know. Like.

A (19:52)

Yeah.

B (19:53)

So anyways, the wrap up negative comments.

A (19:57)

Stop being mean to Sarah, guys. That's my job. Put me out of my co host seat here if you guys start ragging on.

B (20:04)

Okay. There's so many ways. I mean, Chad just came up with 10 ideas for me of different ways to use this. If you're going to market to Nate, make sure that you back it up with at least some way. What are you going to be doing about it?

A (20:19)

I have one more thing to say on this episode.

B (20:21)

Okay.

A (20:21)

It's important.

B (20:22)

Okay.

A (20:22)

And I have to bring this up because on the episode I mentioned it, I think we're vaulting it because it sucked. But happy birthday.

B (20:29)

Thank you. Yeah. Oh, my gosh.

A (20:32)

Did you have a good one?

B (20:33)

It was not great. The entire family got sick four days straight. And. And literally all of us. Casey and I never ever, like, consumer Casey never gets sick, for one thing. But also when we get sick, we stagger it. I don't know how this happens, but it's like I get sick for a week and week up until this last one, all four of us. Jackie was puking the whole entire night. Max had this horrible cough like we had head. I was like, cool. Happy 37.

A (21:00)

Nice. Are you gonna, like, make up for it or are you just like, are you kidding me?

B (21:04)

I don't want to celebrate it again. Vlog that it's over now. We're already 37. But yes, to your point, we did record a happy birthday episode that was so awful I'm not gonna post it. Yeah, but we came back strong.

A (21:18)

Whatever.

B (21:18)

These two episodes were great.

A (21:19)

Yeah. Killed it. Thanks so much for listening. Shout out. Other side. Shout out to other insights. We will see you guys next time on Brain Driven Brands.

B (21:29)

Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Appreciate you guys. Listen, listening. If you want to follow me, I'm at Sarah Levenger. Anywhere you consume content, he is at Nate Lagos. If you like this show and if you like this episode, go ahead and like, subscribe. Share with a friend. Drop us a review when you have a minute. We would appreciate it. Otherwise, have a great week. We'll see you next time.