Magically Increase Conversions With This Simple Psych Tactic

Summary

Brain Driven Brands: Episode Summary

Title: Magically Increase Conversions With This Simple Psych Tactic
Host: Sarah Levinger
Guest: Nate Legos
Release Date: February 13, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Episode

In this episode of Brain Driven Brands, host Sarah Levinger is joined by Nate Legos to discuss powerful neuromarketing strategies that can significantly enhance e-commerce conversions. The episode focuses on a specific psychology-based marketing tactic that helps streamline the customer journey, making it easier for consumers to complete desired actions, such as adding items to their cart or finalizing a purchase.

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2. The Quiz: Identifying the Psychology Tactic

The episode kicks off with an engaging quiz segment where Nate challenges Sarah to identify a key psychology-based marketing tactic widely used in Conversion Rate Optimization (CRO).

Nate (00:45):
"According to science, there is one thing you can do that will help people complete an action in a much quicker process."

Sarah attempts to guess various tactics, including the use of italics and directional arrows, but Nate steers her towards a broader concept related to guiding customers through a process.

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3. Deep Dive: Pseudo Sets Explained

Nate reveals the tactic: Pseudo Sets. This strategy involves grouping tasks or items into predefined sets, providing customers with a clear frame of reference that encourages them to complete a specific number of actions, such as purchasing multiple items.

Nate (04:46):
"People are more likely to reach the end of something or reach the exact number that you want them to reach if you group tasks or items into a set."

This method leverages the brain's need for references, subtly guiding consumers towards desired behaviors without overt pressure.

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4. Real-World Applications and Examples

Sarah and Nate explore various applications of pseudo sets in e-commerce:

• Checkout Process: Displaying a progress bar indicating "Step 1 of 4" can help customers stay committed to completing their purchase.

  Nate (05:08):
  "They'll show you a bar at the top that basically shows you where you are in the process."

• Product Bundling: Offering product bundles, such as a "Jack Daniels Master Distiller bundle," provides a set framework that can increase the average order value.

  Nate (06:14):
  "Putting things in groups basically tells people how many they should expect to buy."

• Dynamic Recommendations: Suggesting additional related products based on what a customer has already added to their cart can nudge them towards completing a set.

  Sarah (10:38):
  "If someone bought a $200 watch, I'm not going to get them to add a $400 watch to cart, but I might suggest a $70 bracelet."

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5. Strategies for Implementation

The discussion delves into practical strategies for implementing pseudo sets effectively:

• Aligning Language: Changing terminology from "bundle" to "collection" can create an exclusive feel that enhances conversions.

  Nate (07:20):
  "Change it to collection and see how that increases conversions, because collection is indicative of something exclusive."

• Email Marketing: Structuring email campaigns in a series, indicating the steps or stages, can help reduce cognitive fatigue and keep customers engaged.

  Nate (18:34):
  "Let them know where they are in the process... step two is go check out these products."

• Personalization: Tailoring suggestions based on individual customer behavior ensures that the pseudo sets remain relevant and achievable.

  Sarah (12:06):
  "If someone bought a $200 watch, I'm not going to get them to add a $400 watch to cart."

Key Takeaway: Pseudo sets must make sense to the customer and be implemented in a way that feels natural and attainable. Overly aggressive tactics, such as pushing customers too far beyond their initial intent, can backfire.

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6. Conclusions and Takeaways

Sarah and Nate conclude the episode by emphasizing the importance of integrating pseudo sets across various facets of marketing to enhance the customer experience and drive conversions.

Nate (21:05):
"Make it as if you have one watch in your cart. You're, you know, like, put two in there and now you have a collection."

They encourage listeners to experiment with pseudo sets in different areas, such as product pages, email flows, and checkout processes, to observe measurable improvements in conversion rates.

Final Quote – Nate (22:15):
"Marketers, somebody go test this. Check every entity of your business and see if you can lead people down the process a little quicker or help them get to the end goal just by referencing where they are in the steps you're on."

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Notable Quotes

• Nate (05:08):
  "They'll show you a bar at the top that basically shows you where you are in the process."

• Sarah (12:06):
  "If someone bought a $200 watch, I'm not going to get them to add a $400 watch to cart."

• Nate (21:05):
  "Make it as if you have one watch in your cart. You're, you know, like, put two in there and now you have a collection."

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Key Insights

• Pseudo Sets Encourage Completion: By grouping actions or products into sets, customers receive subtle cues that guide them toward completing desired behaviors.

• Customization is Crucial: Tailoring pseudo sets based on customer behavior ensures relevance and increases the likelihood of conversion.

• Holistic Implementation: Applying pseudo sets across various marketing channels can create a cohesive and compelling customer journey.

• Testing and Optimization: Continuous experimentation with different pseudo set configurations can help identify the most effective strategies for specific audiences.

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Conclusion

This episode of Brain Driven Brands offers valuable insights into the application of pseudo sets in e-commerce, showcasing how a simple psychological tactic can lead to significant improvements in conversion rates. By understanding and leveraging these neuromarketing principles, brands can create more engaging and effective marketing strategies that resonate with consumers on a deeper level.

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Follow Sarah and Nate:

• Sarah Levinger: Twitter, LinkedIn
• Tether Insights: tetherinsights.io

Transcript

[A]

Welcome back to Brain Driven Brands, brought to you by Tether Insights, the best new, hottest consumer research and performance marketing agency in the biz.

[B]

My God. Okay, if you want me to shout.

[A]

It out, you got to give me notes.

[B]

Specific things. Yeah, specific things. Welcome to Brain Driven Brands, sponsored by Tether Insights, where you can go and get all of your consumer insights in one place, including emotional, behavioral, and psychological. That wasn't that good either, honestly. Scotty, notes. We should do some. Some actual.

[A]

What? Your company. For the record, this is Sarah's company we're talking about.

[B]

Don't worry about it.

[A]

The company that I've been a customer of for a couple of years.

[B]

You really have? Yeah. I had somebody last week that told me that Nate recommended me. And I was like, oh, my God, thank you for the referral. And he was like, he only recommended me because he still has that one ad that's running and I want that. I was like, oh, God, no pressure. Yeah, 100%, though. Nate and I have been working together for a long time. Nate, Legos, welcome to the show.

[A]

Hey, good to be back.

[B]

Hey.

[A]

I made it on the chalkboard this week.

[B]

That's pretty dead. Nobody has really even seen my chalkboard yet. This is my chalkboard behind me and it has like all of the information about myself and my business. And I just made it look cool because I have a giant chalkboard in my office and I should start using it for real chalkboard things. So, yes, I put your name on there because you are a special. Special guest. Special. It really should say special host, but it says.

[A]

It says special guest.

[B]

I'm sorry, I was doing this at like 11 o'clock.

[A]

Seven episodes. I think I've been on like 49 out of 57 episodes.

[B]

You've been on all of them and.

[A]

You'Re calling me a premium guest?

[B]

I know. Poor producer Scotty's like, where is my name?

[A]

Scott isn't here either.

[B]

Yeah, sorry. I'm sorry, guys. I actually didn't even want to.

[A]

Selfish Sarah, what are we going to talk about today? Self centered Sarah. That's your new nickname.

[B]

Self centered Sara. Have you ever met a Sarah that was not cool? That's a great question. Because I never have. Every Sarah I've met has been cool. Pretty. They're pretty cool people. Every Sarah that I've met has been a pretty awesome. Pretty awesome person. All right, on to the show. Today we're gonna do more quizzes because I can't. I love these things mostly because I just like to see if you're already doing them, but also because lots of people have commented and come up and ask me, can you do more of those? Just because I like to. To like the science of it and because they really enjoy your response is really what they keep telling me is they like Nate's response.

[A]

All right, let's do it.

[B]

Okay, so according to science, and again, if you've seen my tweet this week, you probably already know what this is. But according to science, there is one thing you can do that will help people complete an action in a much quicker process. And this is something a lot of CRO, A lot of CRO agencies do this. So what's this psychology based marketing tactic that helps people complete a task, get to the end of something? Could be literally anything. Conversions like purchasing, add to carts. What's your guess?

[A]

It's not the italics one, is it?

[B]

No. Oh, that was a good one though. I do love.

[A]

Is it anything to do with arrows to kind of like point people towards the next action?

[B]

I mean, ooh, you're really close. It's not pointing to a particular action, but it is indicative of moving forward in an action.

[A]

Is it how you write the cta?

[B]

Oh, that's who. We should do some tests on that. But like not how you write cta. This. Okay, you got to think more, a little bit more broad. This is this like I feel like the CRO thing was a good hint. This is something that is going to encourage people to complete a task by how you are drawing them through the process of what they're doing.

[A]

I don't know, just moving everything like top down, left to right.

[B]

Oh, that's good though. Okay, so you've seen that like people, that's a really good psychology, like well known psychology thing where if you're reading a page, usually you read in the direction of whatever you've been taught to read, language wise. So for you it's a very Z pattern, right? Or F pattern. They talk about the two. That is not it though. All right, so people are more likely to reach the end of something or reach the exact number that you want them to reach if you group tasks or items into a set. Now let me explain what this means. Right? You can basically create something called a pseudo set that's going to help people kind of get to a certain number of tests. So for instance, you can do this with, you can do this with like your checkout page, your cart page. So you can tell people at the top of your checkout experience you're on step one of four Step two of four. Step three of four. Step four of four. Right. They do this in CRO all the time where they'll show you a bar at the top that basically shows you where you are in the process. This also works though if you want to encourage a specific number of purchases. So you can also say can do.

[A]

Thresholds of like your one away or.

[B]

Purchase like one away. Yeah, yeah. I haven't seen this on your guys's site yet. Do you guys do first, do you do the bar at the top where it shows people they are the purchasing process?

[A]

No, we don't.

[B]

Oh, fascinating. Is there a reason you haven't tried that?

[A]

No, it just hasn't come up.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

No, but that's super interesting because like we do feel like that one of the hardest things about our website is that it's big. We have.

[B]

Yeah, you have a website. Yeah.

[A]

And like from watching some screen recordings of how customers behave, there's a lot of back and forth. We'll go like homepage to a collection page, to a product page, back to homepage and then go find something else. And it's like they bounce around, they're looking for new stuff. We've done some things to make it a little more seamless and kind of more unidirectional, but we haven't gone as far to be like, hey, you're at step three already. You just need to get to step four. Let's get here. That's super interesting.

[B]

I'd be, I would also be really interested in seeing a test where you pair specific products together. So saying this is a collection of three watches. Because I know you guys have like somewhat tested bundles in the past.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know how they performed.

[A]

They're doing really good. So we like kind of got into them end of last Q3, into Q4, and then I actually just looked at our bundle stats the other day. We've sold a lot in Q1 so far of like fifteen hundred dollar bundle, thousand bundles, which are way above our three hundred bucks now. I don't, I don't think we promote them very well.

[B]

Like how are they, how are they finding these then? They're just like the scale of the site going.

[A]

Yeah, they're merchandised on our collection pages. So if you go to like our Jack Daniels page, it's the first thing you see on there is the Jack Daniels Master distiller bundle for 1500 bucks.

[B]

Bundle or a collection?

[A]

We call it a bundle, a bundle.

[B]

It's not a collection.

[A]

It's not. Should it Be probably.

[B]

Okay. So obviously, we're Segway. We're Segwaying hard off the original, like, study here. But I. I would change it to collection and see how that increases conversions, because collection is indicative of something exclusive. But going back to, like, creating collection.

[A]

And saying, upgrade your collection or upgrade his collection in copy works really well.

[B]

Yeah. See, I would probably change on the landing page, too, just to align what they're actually trying to buy. But going back to these pseudo sets right. From what they're finding out of, like, the actual study, like, how do you explain this? Putting things in groups basically tells people how many they should expect to buy. And it's giving them kind of a frame of reference for socially. This is how many other customers are buying.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we do this automatically when we create bundles. In the DDC industry, where we're bundling three or five or seven or nine or whatever it is, the product set is, you're basically giving people a frame of reference for how many products they should expect to buy, regardless of what the bundle set is. Meaning if they go outside of the bundle and to a different landing page, they may get to the point where they start adding things to their cart and it'll get close to the bundle that they previously viewed.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

That's the scary part. It's like, the brain needs references. And so this is basically like a form of, like, pseudo anchoring is what you're doing. So I got fabricated, by the way. You did?

[A]

Yeah, recently. I was at, like, a candy store, obviously.

[B]

You and Candy man and.

[A]

Yeah, big sweet tooth guy. No, it was like, all, like, homemade candy and fudge and different kind of creations. Like, they call themselves, like, an artisan candy store or some bougie. But it's really good. And I walk up, and there's a counter. It's 40ft long, with a bunch of different options in it. And I asked. I was like, how does this work? Like, we just pick whatever we want. And they said, yep, just pick any three.

[B]

Oh, they did. Okay, See, they didn't.

[A]

And then, like, it wasn't. It wasn't a bundle. It wasn't a deal.

[B]

Oh, no.

[A]

Things I bought. And I was like, all right, got me.

[B]

So this is. Okay, See, this is what I'm saying. So, like, it happens in everyday. Real world, real life. This is also the reason why. Oh, this is the reason why I think Target is so good at getting people to come in their store for just, like, two items. I need, like, face wash and toothpaste. And you leave the store with like, 80 other things. I think it's mostly because they are very, very good about bundling things together in specific spots. Right. So their stores are completely set up so that as you walk through them, items of specific categories will be grouped together. So you notice, like, all of the pasta sauce is next to lay pasta. That's on purpose. Even though technically pasta should be next to the bread because it's a bread item, it doesn't make sense for it to be next to pasta sauce, except for behaviorally, that's when we use it. So I'd be interested to see if OG could test pseudo sets in other places on the site just to see if you could get people to reach a specific number.

[A]

Yeah, we definitely could with watches. And the other thing I think about all of our, like, on product page and in cart upsells are typically the accessories. The bracelets, the necklaces, the rings, exterior stuff. And it'd be interesting to be okay. Like, the set is three items. You can pick whatever they are, but then tell them, like, hey, you're two items away from completing the set.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're one item away from completing the set or the wardrobe or the fit or whatever it is.

[B]

Yeah. I do this with shipping all the time. I see this on D2C, where it's like, you're 50 away from free shipping. And I'm like, eh, that's. I don't. I'm not gonna spend an extra 50 when I could just spend 30 and pay $8. Like, that's still cheaper than 50. Yeah, I understand. When you do it for shipping, I wish more people would try and do it with either products or specifically a cart price.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So you're almost up to your $400 worth of value instead of you're almost up to getting free shipping. If people try and gamify it to where you can win something. I don't think you should do that. I think you should just give them a frame of reference for how much they should buy. We talked about this on a different episode. What episode was that? Now I need to think about it.

[A]

I think we talked about how, like, impactful it can be for. For us to say, choose one. Because, like, paralysis analysis is an issue for us. We almost, like, eliminate all the other choices by just saying, like, hey, just.

[B]

Just one.

[A]

One.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I love the idea of being like, all right, cool, we got you on the one. Now complete this.

[B]

Do you want more?

[A]

Now complete the wardrobe. Now complete the look. Yeah, let's go get.

[B]

Okay, well, caveat. To this. According to the, the research, the actual study, it says that this only works if it's a moderate effort, but if the goal is too high, it won't work.

[A]

Which is your example about abandoned. You spent 30 and they tell you you're 50 away shipping. It's like, yeah, that's not close enough.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

I wonder if we can make it dynamic based on what they've added to cart so far.

[B]

Because like, that's smart.

[A]

I'm with you on that. Like, if someone bought a $200 watch or they added that to cart, I'm not going to get them to add a $400 watch to cart from that. But I might get them on a $70 necklace, $50 bracelet. It's way more within the realm of what they wanted to do.

[B]

Yes, yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.

[A]

But still pushes them towards an extra, you know, 50, 70 bucks.

[B]

And now. Okay, so now I'm thinking of this. Farther, further, farther, Whatever. However you say it. Why is it that in D2C we default to one product at a time? And why is it that in D2C we don't automatically. Some people have done this and it's backfired a little bit. But we don't automatically add things to a suggestive page. Like suggestive meaning. Like here's the one that you just bought, Right. Here's another page that opens up that's like, do you want to buy any of these to go along with it? As you were saying, like bracelets or watch or you know, necklaces. Whatever it is, I've seen it done for info products. They upsell to new pages, but they don't do it.

[A]

Horse guys are the best at this.

[B]

Yes. If you sign yours, make fun of.

[A]

Them all you want because it's a kind of silly way to make money.

[B]

But they're so good.

[A]

They're so good at this stuff.

[B]

Yes. Okay. At one. Oh, now I have to be careful because technically that's. It's two different psychological tactics you're using. Upsell is a little bit different than pseudo sets. Pseudo sets is pre created.

[A]

So let's stay on that for a minute because I was on someone's site the other day, they were selling, I think it was like protein shakes or gels or something. They were letting you buy one serving for $4.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I was like, the default here should be a six pack or a.

[B]

12 pack or a 24 pack a little bit bigger.

[A]

And like the progress bar could be like, hey, build your six pack. Build your 12 pack.

[B]

Exactly yeah.

[A]

And force people into it. I'm like, why would you even give people the option of buying one of a product that's single serve and that cheap? When I'm like, it's obviously something that's going to be bought in bulk. If you were at the store, you'd never buy a bottle of Gatorade. Yeah, you go buy a pack.

[B]

Nobody buys a bottle of Gatorade. I mean, I have in the past.

[A]

Before, like outside of like a gas station though, like you've gone to a grocery store.

[B]

If I go to Target. No, I'm gonna buy the whole like pack of 12 or whatever it is.

[A]

Yeah, this is like you go to the store and the, the single serve yogurts are always like 10 for 12 bucks or something. Yeah, it's like, well, I'm gonna get 10.

[B]

Well, I'm gonna. Yeah.

[A]

If that wasn't there, I would never buy 10. That's so aggressive. But it's close enough to be like, well, I was probably gonna buy six anyway, so I might just.

[B]

So funny. My husband's grandfather used to do this all the time. Anytime we went over to his house. He was a lovely old Jewish gentleman, super sweet, like the cutest little 95 year old person I've ever seen. He would always tell me, do you guys want some ice cream after dinner? And we would go to his like stock freezer in the garage and it was just like full to the brim of these like big court, whatever. And I was like, bernie, why do you need so much ice cream? You're tiny. You like way less than I do. Why do you eat so much ice cream? And he was like, well, I'm probably not going to eat all of this, but it was 10 for 10, right? It was like I couldn't not get it. He also would drive to different grocery stores just to find the best deal on cherries. He would get like 17 packs of cherries because he love the deal of it. It's pseudo sets. Like they just because it's in a set, you have a really hard time selling saying no to it. So now I'm like, what can we set? You could set price, you could set product, you could set, you could set shipping. What else could you set? That is just a. People do it, but they don't know it.

[A]

We could do like a certain savings amount. So we could do like you've saved $70, like add one more thing to increase your savings to $100 today or something.

[B]

You could do you think people would do that?

[A]

I Don't know.

[B]

To get. To get up to it specifically.

[A]

There's no way to say that cleanly and yeah. Quickly.

[B]

I would say for anybody listening, if you're going to use pseudo sets, they have to. They have to make sense to the customer. So whatever it is, whatever set you're going to create, whatever, like, number you're going to put on things, it has to make sense. This is the reason why I would so much rather, to producer Scotty's point, build it into your choice architecture than into your products or your price or your shipping or whatever it is. Make it as if you have one watch in your cart. You're, you know, like, put two in there and right now you have a collection kind of a thing. So you did for Jack Daniel's collection.

[A]

So now that we know people are willing to do this, because before six months ago, I kind of thought I was like, no one's gonna come to our store and drop 1500. Like, it's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. But people are doing it. So now that they're doing it, I'm like, oh, we need to start thinking about our upsells a little bit. Yeah, Better. Because there should be an offer. If anyone adds one Jack Daniels watch to their cart, it should be like, hey, do you want the three watch?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Do you want the collection collection? And if you get that's like, great. Now do you want the five watch Jack Daniels collection? We'll give you the free box.

[B]

Exactly. If you buy, we'll give you the free box. Or we'll give you discount. Like, yeah.

[A]

Kind of walking people up.

[B]

Keep walking them up where we're moving on up. Just depending. You can, Diane, dynamically do this with your add to carts, like with your cart structure. Just keep walking them up through the process and letting them know, again, give them the end goal. Do you want three? Do you want five? Do you want 12? Like, how many of these do you want? But always set that number and make it achievable. If they got one, they will probably be okay. With three, they've got three. It's. They'll probably get to five. Don't jump from like five to 20 because then that's just not gonna work. Yeah. Now I need you to test this and see if it works because this.

[A]

Is super interesting how often I think this stuff is used outside of E. Com and never used any Com.

[B]

Yeah, Ecom doesn't use it as much. We do bundles and like I said, CRO does it a little Bit. And I've seen it with shipping, but I haven't seen it with almost anything else. For instance, if you have emails, why are we sending just one email a week? That's just a random one off. Why don't we send three emails a week and let them know this is one of three you're going to get this week to increase the chance that they will get to read number three instead of just skipping the rest of the week. Why don't we do that?

[A]

Oh, that's so interesting to do. Like, it's so the thing that comes to mind immediately for us is like, we'll send out a series of teaser emails before we launch a new collection. One will be like, kind of just like a sneaky, moody, like, teaser. The next will go, like into a little bit about what it is. And the third one will be like the full reveal of, like, what the new collection is. We should tell people that second and third one are coming.

[B]

That's coming. Yeah.

[A]

It's like, hey, look out for this. We're gonna reveal more.

[B]

Yeah. It sounds super strange because you're like, why would you let people know that marketing is coming? I'm sure they know they do, but they're also busy and they also have a million other brands that are in their inbox just waiting for attention. So I'm like, I think we should start to let people know where they are in the process. I'm also trying to think, oh, this would be interesting. A test of letting people know where they are in the actual purchasing process. For instance, like, if you see somebody come on your site and they haven't been on there much, like, this is a brand new person that came off of an ad. Whatever. They're not in the ecosystem they haven't purchased yet. Can we send them to specific landing pages and let them know, hey, we see that you're like, watch curious. Like a watch curious page. And be like, you're in a. You're just in the, like, kind of exploration phase. We get it. We're not here to sell you anything. Just come take a look. And then the killer welcome. Yeah. And then the next set, once they get into your ecosystem, you could track them through email, through wherever they are, then start sending them landing pages that are like, you're a serious watch guy. We can tell you've been around us for a while. Do you want to buy now?

[A]

Yeah. Because you deserve a watch as ragged and dependable as you are.

[B]

100. Then you could get in there with that one line that we Know works incredibly well. And then sell it. Sell it. Yes. So tell them where they are in the process. Just reference the fact we know you're not ready to buy. You're on step one of step five to get to your original grain. Watch. We get it. But we all do this. This is this. Yeah. Yep.

[A]

We all do this in our lives. Personally, like when I'm finishing up a video game and my wife is waiting for my daughter. Hey, there's six laps to go in this race. The entire field was in that rack and we've only got six laps to go. Only Ricky Bobby and John Gerard got away clean. I'm almost done.

[B]

We're gonna be a minute.

[A]

And when she's having me do chores, she's like, hey, you, like, you're just one thing away from being done here. We all, like do this.

[B]

We do it everywhere.

[A]

Moving and keep people motivated through the process. We just don't do it in marketing.

[B]

And we actually should. We do it in four places and we don't test it anywhere else. Yeah, we do it. Yes. Producer Skies does travel. Like, we do it all over the place. Yeah, I do it with my kids a lot. I'm like, two more bites. Two more bites and then you can have dessert. Just two. And then they flip out because they don't even want to do two bites. But happens everywhere. So marketers, somebody go test this. Go check every entity of your business. Check your landers, check your PDPs, check your product pages, check your emails, your SMS, wherever you're doing anything in your business and see if you can lead people down the process a little quicker or, or help them get to the end goal just by referencing where they are in the steps you're on. Step one, like, I don't even care if you test it in like a pop up. Just do a pop up and say, hey, we see that you're evaluating our products. Thanks for being here. And then leave it at that. Don't try and sell them on anything. Just being like, next step is go check out how many products we have. The next step is check out this next step is add it to your cart. Like, whatever you need to say, just help them along by telling them how many steps there are. Because half of the problem with evaluation is it's cognitively fatiguing. Yeah, there's so much that goes into evaluating products. It helps to know how long it's going to take.

[A]

Well, and so we are, we're like a week away from testing all new email flows because we got to get through our all of our Valentine's Day centric content and then test Evergreen stuff again. And I'm thinking about it now. We're pretty aggressive early on of like, hey, buy this. Like, hey, hey, thanks for coming. Please buy this.

[B]

Hey, it's time to buy.

[A]

And it's like, we're, like, asking someone to, like, get in bed with us way too early. And it's like, hey, maybe we should have dinner first and learn about each other.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, like, explore what's going on here. But yeah, I'm like, I'm thinking about, like, should we just be more intentionally. Like, there's no pressure here.

[B]

No pressure.

[A]

I wish I could go back and see some of our watches for the first time. Here's what I'd look out for. Here's what you can learn about. And then see how more impactful those second and third emails get.

[B]

A hundred percent.

[A]

Because the first one is just framing where they're at in the process.

[B]

Yeah. Easiest way to test this is to segment out an audience that's coming off of a specific ad and run emails just to that audience that have that softer tone of like, you're on step one, the evaluation process and the OG ecosystem. Step two is go check out these products, and then all the people that go to that page send them a new email flow. You're on step two. Here's step three. And check to see whether people get to the end quicker. Like, if you can reduce your. What's the word? Like your lead time. If you can reduce your consideration period just through that one, acknowledging how long it is. Put it every. If it works, put it everywhere. It's a great episode. I love these studies. They're so interesting. And I also love the application. It always helps to be like, nate, what do you go do this?

[A]

Yeah, Nate, get a little tactical and practical here.

[B]

Get a little tactical and practical with it. That would be a great podcast name. In fact, I think I know somebody who has that podcast. Where can they find you?

[A]

The tactical and practical podcast is pretty dope. It's like this one, except without Sarah and more tactical.

[B]

So if you don't want to listen.

[A]

To Sarah, some people think that's a massive positive. Some people are neutral.

[B]

Okay. Wow.

[A]

That's what they're telling me. Other than that on Twitter and LinkedIn, I guess Twitter engagement's kind of sucked lately, so.

[B]

Yeah, Twitter Hot on LinkedIn.

[A]

We'll see.

[B]

It's been a weird year for Twitter. Follow me at Sarah Levinger. Anywhere you consume content, go check us out at tetherinsights IO Tether Insights IO we're doing a lot of really interesting things over there. If you want to know what your consumers are thinking, doing, feeling emotionally about the purchasing process before they actually get to the purchase itself. We run a lot of studies on the emotional side of marketing, specifically when it comes to consumer behavior. So go check us out. Tether Insights IO thanks for coming. This was great. This is a good episode.

[A]

The Brain Driven Brands podcast is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast Network.