Sarah Makes Nate Cry (And Yet Another Super Secret Prompt)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brain Driven Brands - "Sarah Makes Nate Cry (And Yet Another Super Secret Prompt)"

Episode Information:

• Title: Sarah Makes Nate Cry (And Yet Another Super Secret Prompt)
• Host: Sarah Levinger
• Co-Host: Nate
• Release Date: May 29, 2025
• Description: In this episode, Sarah and Nate delve deep into the psychology of marketing by exploring the valence and intensity mapping framework. They analyze several ads, particularly focusing on an Original Grain watch ad, to illustrate how different emotional tones can impact audience engagement and sales.

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1. Introduction and Personal Anecdotes (00:04 - 01:42)

The episode begins with a light-hearted exchange between Sarah and Nate, where Sarah shares her struggles with her husband's illness and the challenges of parenthood. This segment sets a relatable tone for listeners before transitioning into the episode's main topic.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah (00:15): "I am barely surviving. ... Welcome to parenthood."

2. Introducing Valence and Intensity Mapping (01:42 - 05:46)

Sarah introduces the concept of valence and intensity mapping, a psychological model commonly referred to as valence and arousal in academic circles. She explains that valence pertains to the type of emotion (positive or negative), while intensity measures how strong that emotion is.

Key Points:

• Valence: Determines the emotional tone (positive vs. negative).
• Intensity: Measures the strength of the emotion.
• Emotional Spectrum: Emotions are not binary but exist on a spectrum, allowing for nuanced feelings like "frustrated" or "proud."

Notable Quote:

• Sarah (03:12): "Emotions are on a spectrum. Valence has to do with which emotions you're actually feeling."

3. The Four Zones Explained (05:46 - 10:29)

Sarah elaborates on the four distinct zones derived from combining valence and intensity:

1. Zone 1: High Valence, Low Intensity

   • Emotions: Calm, supportive, reassuring.
   • Marketing Focus: Comfort and warmth.

2. Zone 2: High Valence, High Intensity

   • Emotions: Joy, excitement, pride.
   • Marketing Focus: Aspirational and empowering messages.

3. Zone 3: Low Valence, Low Intensity

   • Emotions: Annoyance, disappointment, fatigue.
   • Marketing Focus: Addressing mild frustrations without being overly negative.

4. Zone 4: Low Valence, High Intensity

   • Emotions: Panic, sadness, anxiety.
   • Marketing Focus: Creating urgency and compelling action.

Notable Quote:

• Nate (05:46): "Sweet spot where most of us exist."
• Sarah (07:00): "We live in zone four, Evergreen State."

4. Practical Application: Analyzing the Original Grain Watch Ad (10:29 - 22:19)

Sarah and Nate apply the valence and intensity framework to analyze an Original Grain watch ad titled "Carve Your Own Path." They assess the ad's emotional impact and discuss how different emotional tones can reshape the marketing message.

Analysis Details:

• Current Ad Assessment:
  • Valence: Positive
  • Intensity: Moderate to High
  • Emotions Targeted: Pride, nostalgia, identity
  • Copy Insights: "Carve your own path" is empowering yet subtle, resonating well with the target audience.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah (10:05): "Copy is what we're working on."
• Nate (10:55): "You're doing a great job of just being real definitive with what you're trying to say because you're going for ruggedness."

5. Experimenting with Different Zones (22:19 - 30:08)

The duo experiments by shifting the ad's message across different zones to observe varying emotional impacts.

• Zone 1 (High Valence, Low Intensity):

  • New Copy Example: "Handcrafted for time well spent."
  • Emotional Tone: Cozy, calm, supportive.
  • Impact: Emphasizes comfort and meaningful moments without high intensity.

• Zone 4 (Low Valence, High Intensity):

  • New Copy Example: "Time doesn't wait. Moments slip by."
  • Emotional Tone: Urgent, poignant, emotional.
  • Impact: Creates a sense of urgency and reflection on the fleeting nature of time.

Discussion Points:

• Effectiveness: Zone 4 resonated more with Nate, offering a universal and heartfelt message.
• Ethical Considerations: Avoiding negative triggers and ensuring messages are empowering rather than accusatory.

Notable Quotes:

• Nate (17:48): "Time doesn't wait. Moments slip by."
• Sarah (20:03): "We'll remind people that there's a real world out there."

6. Evaluating Zone 3: Challenges and Drawbacks (30:08 - 28:09)

When attempting to create copy for Zone 3, which targets mild negative emotions like frustration and fatigue, Sarah and Nate find the resulting message falls short. The copy comes across as overly harsh and lacks an empowering resolution, making it less effective and more off-putting.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah (25:37): "This one just kind of ends with like a hey, don't kill yourself just yet."
• Nate (25:59): "This one just kind of ends with like a hey, don't kill yourself just yet."

7. Strategic Insights and Best Practices (30:38 - 34:19)

Sarah and Nate conclude by emphasizing the importance of selecting the right emotional zone for marketing messages. They highlight:

• Audience Segmentation: Different zones may resonate better with different segments of the audience.
• Emotional Balance: Striking a balance between conveying emotion without overwhelming or offending the audience.
• Framework Utilization: Using structured frameworks like valence and intensity mapping can lead to more effective and intentional marketing copy.

Notable Quotes:

• Sarah (31:21): "We'll be doing more identity activation."
• Nate (32:28): "Be careful what you do."

8. Conclusion and Call to Action (34:19 - 35:04)

The episode wraps up with Sarah promoting her psychology community for marketers, emphasizing the value of applying psychological frameworks in marketing strategies. She invites listeners to join the community for deeper insights and resources.

Notable Quote:

• Sarah (34:53): "If you want to learn frameworks like this, I have like hundreds of these coming."

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Key Takeaways:

1. Valence and Intensity Mapping: Understanding the emotional spectrum is crucial for crafting effective marketing messages.
2. Zone Selection: Different zones serve different purposes—Zone 1 for calm and support, Zone 2 for empowerment, Zone 3 for addressing mild frustrations, and Zone 4 for creating urgency.
3. Ethical Marketing: It's essential to balance emotional appeal without crossing into triggering or offensive territory.
4. Practical Application: Regularly analyzing and adjusting ad copy based on emotional frameworks can enhance engagement and effectiveness.
5. Community and Learning: Engaging with specialized communities can provide valuable resources and support for marketers aiming to apply psychological principles.

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Final Thoughts:

In "Sarah Makes Nate Cry (And Yet Another Super Secret Prompt)," Sarah Levinger and Nate provide a comprehensive exploration of how emotions influence marketing effectiveness. By applying the valence and intensity mapping framework, they offer actionable insights for marketers to fine-tune their messaging, ensuring it resonates deeply and ethically with their target audiences.

Transcript

[Nate]

Welcome back to Brain Driven Brands.

[Sarah]

I knew it was gonna be you.

[Nate]

I'm your co host along with the main host, creator of the show, Sarah. What's going on?

[Sarah]

You know, I am barely surviving. My husband was sick this entire week, which, you know, if you got kids, you got one of the primary parents down, like, you're just, all right, cool. We're just gonna see where this goes because half of this week is gonna be basically useless. So it's gonna be so fun. I haven't slept a lot now. I'm pretty sure my kids are coming down with that cold, so. Welcome to parenthood. How are you?

[Nate]

How much steak are you guys eating as a family?

[Sarah]

Like, almost none. Red meat, I don't think is very good for you.

[Nate]

He says the family that's sick, you know.

[Sarah]

You know, okay, I'm not sick because of red meat. I'm sick because every preschool on the planet is just a germ city. It's just. Even if they disinfect, which ours tells us all the time, we disinfect all the time. And I'm like, I know, but there's no. Children have, like, freaking, I don't know, Chernobyl level germs. Like, you can't get away from them and you will get sick. It just is just saying if you.

[Nate]

Haven'T tried serving ribeye at snack time, then don't come complaining to me about being sick.

[Sarah]

You know, my kids don't eat meat, which is kind of sad. Not for lack of trying, like we've tried. Here, have this. Have this. They'll eat chicken nuggets, like, as most kids do. But my eldest was like a vegetarian for first, like five years of his life because he just wouldn't do it. Wouldn't eat him. I mean, he survived, like, he did just fine. He ate eggs, I guess. So I. Does that count? I don't know. I keep them alive, people. I'm a good. This episode is turning real weird real quick. Okay, so I want to.

[Nate]

Not a parenting podcast.

[Sarah]

Not a parenting podcast. Sorry, you guys can't get parenting tips from Sarah. Legal disclaimer. I'm not person you should take advice from. Go parent your kids the way you want to parent them and be kind and gentle with little baby humans. Okay, God are into the topic. So topic today we promise something like every single episode and then we never follow through on it because most of the time we forget. So I think. I don't know how many promises we've made that we're going to get you guys content on Things, but this is the one that I was like, we need to follow through on because it's just interesting content more than anything else. So a couple episodes ago, I was talking about something called valence and intensity mapping, and your face went a little blank and you were like, aha. So now I want to know, do you want to do like a valence intensity map on your ads today?

[Nate]

I would love to. Yeah.

[Sarah]

Okay. All right, so first, do you have.

[Nate]

Ads or do you want me to pull them up?

[Sarah]

Oh, I got one.

[Nate]

Oh. Oh, you got some.

[Sarah]

I pulled one.

[Nate]

I don't like the way that you said one. This is going to be the worst performing ad in the account right now.

[Sarah]

Is it really? I hope not. This is one that you've talked about before that did pretty well, that this is like a core concept, you guys, so. And I pulled this one specifically because you've said this is a really well performing core concept. Core message for original grade. We should probably talk about what valence and intensity is. If you don't know already, please.

[Nate]

Yeah, yeah, I know. But for the rest of the audience.

[Sarah]

Every time you're like, most of the time you do know. So I'm not. Not super good. Okay.

[Nate]

Not me.

[Sarah]

So I was doing some research, of course, as I do, Sarah is just weird. And I just go through a lot of, like, studies every single week just because it's interesting to me. Very dry, boring reading, but it's fascinating to Sarah. So one of the things that I was studying was a psychology model called the valence and intensity map. Now, they don't. Technically speaking, if you're in psychology or if you have a psychology background, they don't call this valence and intensity. It's usually referenced as valence and arousal map, but I figured that might be a little weird.

[Nate]

We're not going to talk about that on this podcast.

[Sarah]

I mean, it's not like we don't all use foreplay. Hey, fellas.

[Adele]

Hi, Adele.

[Nate]

Is that a tube top you're wearing?

[Sarah]

Good eye. Just a little elastic basket to hold my peaches. But, you know, it's a child friendly show, so we're gonna. We're gonna foreplay the app. Don't look at me like that. Foreplay the app. God damn it.

[Adele]

Those that don't know. The foreplay app is a mobile companion app for Foreplay Co. It allows users to save ads, organize them into a swipe file, and capture ad inspiration on the go. It is designed to be used by marketers and agencies to streamline their creative workflow.

[Sarah]

So I have changed it to just be a little bit more. Thank you, Scotty. It is. Wow. Little bit more child friendly show. So valence and intensity, it's basically the same thing as that like psychology model. But I think this helps me understand a whole lot better. So we talk about valence and intensity. Valence has to do with what type of emotion you're using. So emotions are on a spectrum. And if you've ever been to therapy, you'll probably know this a lot. Right. We have to name our emotions. We teach our kids this a lot. It's not just sad that you're feeling. You might be feeling frustrated, right? That's a type of sad, but sad mixed with a little bit of anger, frustration. You might feel happy, but it might also be pride that, that you're actually feeling. That's like happy with like a little bit of like I feel good about myself. Right. So emotions are on a spectrum. Valence has to do with which emotions you're actually feeling. Is it very, very positive, like elation, joy, or is it very, very negative, like rage and anger? Which one B. Intensity has to do with how intense that emotion is. So right in the middle would be like boredom, Just. It's like no emotion. It's just like right in the middle somewhere. Yeah, like just bored, apathetic, neutral. Right. I just don't feel anything kind of dead inside. It's like right in the middle when you.

[Nate]

Sweet spot where most of us exist.

[Sarah]

All the time, dead inside. Okay. But on the opposite spectrums, the intensity kind of goes in different directions. So again, sad would probably be actually more towards the middle of the spectrum, whereas depressed is much, much farther that direction. Right. On the negative side, if you're going upwards in intensity on, on like a positive valence, then you'd probably see something more like excitement, happiness. You might also see something like contentment. That's a really high like valence curve. So on the intensity map, I should probably just bring this up for you so you can see it. On the intensity map you have four different zones that these fit in and. And where you kind of land inside. The intensity map changes how people respond to your ad because you're technically communicating a different emotion, if that makes sense. So I'm going to bring this up for those of you who are on YouTube. You can see this. If you're not on YouTube, that's totally fine. I'll just explain to you what we're seeing. So here's how this actually looks for valence and intensity, right? We have High or low valence intensity in the middle. High or low. You can go upwards on the scale. Valence is in the middle, and then crossover is intensity. Low on the left side, high on the right side. Right. So each of these is going to have a different map and it maps the different emotions, happy emotions or sad emotions, and then just how intense they are. So I have a whole training of this in my community, like chainless plug. But here's how this, like, kind of looks when you start to look at different emotions that are in different quadrants. Zone 1, high valence, low intensity is going to be like calm, supportive, reassuring. Just like nice feelings, but it's not very intense. Right. If you're doing high valence, high intensity, you're going to feel joy, excitement, thrill, pride. This is usually what people default to in marketing. If you've ever heard the term, like, aspirational marketing, that's the zone. They're sitting in a zone two because they're just like, everything's great. You're gonna be amazing. Now's the time they like car sales. It. It drives me crazy when I get into this zone. Zone 3, Low Intensity and low valence is going to be like, I'm annoyed, I'm disappointed, I'm fatigued, I'm tired. Like, I'm irritated. And then zone four, if you're like low valence, low emotion, but you're really intense with that emotion, is like panic, sadness, stress, loss, anxiety. Like, really intense feelings.

[Nate]

So, yeah, E Commerce marketers, Zone four.

[Sarah]

We live in zone four, Evergreen State.

[Nate]

Anxiety. Okay, so and then like four days a year, zone two.

[Sarah]

Yes. Where it's like right. Right around Black Friday, we get really excited about it. Okay, so what I'm gonna do is for your specific ad, I asked it to give me kind of like an analysis of the valence and intensity in the ad. So I'm going to show you the ad that we did, and then I'll show you what it came up with, and then we're going to move it around the zones and I'll show you the different copy that it creates. Okay, Are you ready?

[Nate]

I'm sorry.

[Sarah]

This is what I do in the tether lab. That's why people are like, act like Sarah.

[Nate]

And then what we do with it.

[Sarah]

Exactly. This is why I get excited about this stuff. Because now I'm just sitting here like, ooh, all this different cool stuff I'm gonna create. Okay, so we put this in a chat. Here's the ad. This one I'm sure you'll Recognize.

[Nate]

Oh, yeah.

[Sarah]

The ad that says, carve your own path. This is something you have said lots and lots and lots of times. So I was like, oh, this is gonna be. I don't. What is the. I need to bring up the screen share. What does this say beneath it? So you got your.

[Nate]

That's a good question.

[Sarah]

I think it's a whiskey block chronograph.

[Nate]

Probably something inlaid with whiskey barrel wood or it's a whiskey black chronograph timepiece or something.

[Sarah]

Got it. Okay. Yeah.

[Nate]

Probably just, like a product detail call out.

[Sarah]

I took the entire screenshot out of Facebook ad library. So it actually has more context. It actually reads the. The as well as the actual creative results. Because I want to get. When you do this kind of work with valence and intensity mapping, you want to get full context of the whole ad as people are actually going to see it, not just the creative.

[Nate]

Yep.

[Sarah]

So that's the reason why I take that screenshot. So this one is one of your whiskey barrel ones. All right.

[Nate]

So, by the way, let me pause, guys. The captions in your ad matter.

[Sarah]

They do heavily.

[Nate]

So, like, I know everyone's like, yeah, you throw it up with whatever copies there. The copy's like, half of it.

[Sarah]

So, yeah, it's kind of.

[Nate]

Right. Sorry, you were saying?

[Sarah]

So copy is what we're working on. So this is what chat comes up, and this is the reason why I'll use chat, because chat can analyze things super faster than I can. So we asked chat to analyze the valence and intensity in this ad. This is what it says. This ad from Original Grain taps into a mix of moderate to high intensity, which I would agree with this. Carve your own path is kind of intense, but it's not, like, overly, like, dominate the world.

[Nate]

Yep.

[Sarah]

It's not what you're saying. Right. Positive valence. Because you are like, carve your own path. Go the way you want to. Like, you're kind of being positivity with it. And this is interesting because this is my GPT. It gave you extra. So you also have emotional. Emotional cues in here that blend nostalgia, masculinity, which is interesting. Pride and individuality.

[Nate]

Crush.

[Sarah]

Would you say that this. I was gonna say. Would you say this is accurate of what you were saying?

[Nate]

Exactly why I wanted to write this. Yep.

[Sarah]

Okay. Perfect. All right, so breaking it down with the valence intensity framework. Right. So your valence is positive. Your core emotions are pride, nostalgia, and identity. So you're doing a good job here. The tone is very reflective. I love that. Chat pulls this out.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Because, like, you're asking people to kind of reflect on who they want to be in life. Very empowering. It's not playful, though, or overly sentimental. You're doing a great job with your copy without even knowing it. Like, I know it for the record. You do. I'm like, subconsciously, Nate knows how to do this. So how it's framed here, Whiskey barrels make whiskey. Whiskey makes good times. And then it kind of evokes that kind of warmth, tradition, positive vibes. Right. Carve your own path is talking straight to your need for autonomy, independence, self determination. So positive emotion. But they're not, like, sugary, sweet, or soft. So you. You're doing a great job of just being real definitive with what you're trying to say because you're going for ruggedness. You're very grounded. So intensity wise, this language of carve your own path is kind of a call to action. Right. Rooted into that kind of identity, defiance. It's very subtle, though. This is what I love about your copywriting style, because I know you copyright all of your ads. You're very subtle with how you say things.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You don't, like, go straight for the gold and, like, this is virtual. You're very much like, carve your own path, man. You want it, come get it. And people do in, like, drone. I love it. Okay. The visual though, too, out here was analyzed.

[Nate]

Do you know why?

[Sarah]

Okay. Why?

[Nate]

Because if we went any more over the top, we'd be marketing to, like, other watch company customers.

[Sarah]

True.

[Nate]

Like, the original grain guys aren't bold and flashy, and they're not on some kind of, like, take over the world, building empire ship. Just like, I'm just going to carve my own path, do my own thing, take care of my family.

[Sarah]

I also love it, though, because your audience is subtle. They're a pretty subtle guy. They're not, like, very ostentatious. They don't want to go out and get a bunch of attention. In fact, they work pretty hard to be more of a subtle background player in their families and in their friendships. They're solid there. You can rely on them. A reliable person is usually the type of person who's not very loud.

[Nate]

Yep.

[Sarah]

They're just there and that. Ah, you nailed it.

[Nate]

Another tagline we've done that crushes is like, for people who don't. People who don't demand attention but command respect.

[Sarah]

I bet you that one too. Okay. All right. Oh, my God. So good. Okay. So visually, visuals also come into play when chat Is going to check your intensity. So the intensity of the image is being registered by the brain just as much as the copy is. And this is the reason why I like to screenshot the full ad and give chat the ad itself and go through and do, like, intensity mapping. So this one in particular is interesting because the image is conveying, like, an intensity level as well. They've done a few studies where contrast, where you get really deep shadows or really bright highlights on it from photography, will communicate high quality. You guys have a lot of contrast in your stuff. Your images are actually a lot darker than what I see people usually use. They're kind of.

[Nate]

Yeah, we're super dark and moody.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I love it. Okay. Storytelling wise, same thing. Like, copy doesn't scream, carries weight. Good substance. Like the reference to whiskey making process and the barrels themselves talks about that legacy that you guys want to leave. Craftsmanship. So final emotionally, like, emotional positioning that it gives you. You have a valence of plus 6, and then you have an intensity of 7.5. So are you ready to move zones?

[Nate]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Sarah]

Let's write some copy. Switch. To which zone do you want to try? Whoops. Do you have, like, a favorite that you want to see?

[Nate]

Let's try to go zone one. So, like, still positive, but even less intense, more subtle.

[Sarah]

Oh, how can we.

[Nate]

How can we market this to the intense, the lazy, original grain?

[Sarah]

Guys, this I find interesting because you always choose things that I. I love because you're not a typical marketer. Typical marketers I think would go and be like, get crazy with it. Like, go hard at. I'm like, this will be interesting to see if it go more subtle because it's technically in zone two. All right, here we go. So to shift from zone one. Oh, it thought you were in zone one. Oh, no. Okay, sorry, I read that wrong. To shift to zone one, they're going to create more calm, cozy, reassuring, emotional experience. Instead of pride, empowerment, we're going to leave it to comfort, sentimentality, and warmth. So here's the copy rewrite for moving from zone two to zone one. Going after cozy, calm, supportive instead of empowering. And pride and legacy headline crafted for quiet moments. What do you think?

[Nate]

Seems real close to our tagline of handcrafted for time well spent.

[Sarah]

Dang it. You're so right.

[Nate]

And then we've also done one that's made for the moments that matter.

[Sarah]

So interesting tldr on this too. Like, full disclosure, my GPT has never been trained on any of of Nate's stuff. He's just really freaking good at this, and it bothers me. Okay, so the body copy. Not every memory is loud. Oh, I like that. Some of the best ones happen in quiet. Share drink. Good story. Pause between the rush. This watch was made for those moments. Built from reclaimed whiskey barrels, every piece carries a story that's aged well, just like the ones we cherish most. Wherever life takes you, it's a reminder to slow down and savor it. Where the moment. Feel the story.

[Nate]

Screenshotting this and sending to my graphic right now.

[Sarah]

Yes. So.

[Nate]

On a Friday afternoon, I want to know.

[Sarah]

I love this. So the emotional shift breakdown from chat. The valence is still staying high, Right? So you're still rooted in that emotional richness, but you're dropping the intensity is all you're doing. So you're just not being as crazy with the, like, intensity of the emotion. We're bringing it down a little bit. Just pausing, reflecting. Do you want to try a different zone?

[Nate]

Yeah, I mean, might as well. Let's go zone four.

[Sarah]

Okay, let's try zone four. Oh, crap. I'm scared of zone four. So zone four, the last one that we did, we dropped from zone two, which was joy, thrill, excitement, pride, to zone one, which is cozy, calm, supportive, reassuring. We are now going from zone one, cozy, calm, over to zone three, which is annoyance, disappointment, fatigue, or irritation. Okay, are you ready to see this? I'm scared. All right, here we go.

[Nate]

I think we said four just for the record, not three a second ago.

[Sarah]

Just recapping. We're going from zone one, which is cozy, calm, to zone four, because you messed me up and I told that we're going to zone three. Zone four is panic, sadness, loss, or anxiety. Here we go. So zone four, high intensity, low valence. This is the emotional territory of panic, loss, sadness. Yep. All right, so here's the copy for panic, loss, and sadness. The headline time doesn't wait. Body copy. The truth is, we're all running out of it. Oh, my God. Moments by people change. What matters gets buried under what's urgent. This watch was made to remember what's real. Ow. This is hurting my heart so bad.

[Nate]

What matters gets buried under what's urgent.

[Sarah]

I can't handle it. It hurts my heart. Especially today because I'm like, I'm sleep deprived. So I'm like, that's my life. Okay. Crafted from reclaimed berry whiskey barrels, it's a reminder that some things are worth holding on to. That time, once passed, can't be reclaimed. But meaning can be built into every second. Left where does it promise to live with intention before the moment's gone? Before it slips away?

[Nate]

When I told you to turn the in, Z4, I thought there was no way I was gonna ever run this as an ad, but I'm gonna try this.

[Sarah]

This is why you should come hang out with Sarah, people. Because this is the stuff I do on a daily basis. I'm over here like, yeah, this is.

[Nate]

I will be honest. This is one of the very, very few times that I see a piece of copy that I'm like, I couldn't have wrote this. Oh, I don't know what that says about me and my mindset, but, like, I could not have written that.

[Sarah]

It goes to show you, applying psychology comes down to having somebody to just distill it for you. But also, sometimes Chat can do some amazing things for you. If you tell it what to do, you can't just prompt it with like, here's my avatar, here's my product.

[Nate]

Yeah. For all of you guys saying, hey, chat, write sales copy for this new product, and hitting enter, you're. You're missing the bottom.

[Sarah]

Don't do that. Yes, Scotty. Thank you. This takes the bias out. If you tell Chat how to go about problem solving, give it a framework to problem solve. You can get stuff like this, which is very different from what usually original grade puts out. But I like it because it really does pull at the heartstrings a little bit of, like, what matters is getting buried, man. Like, you can't get that time back, so get it before it's gone.

[Nate]

That's huge. What's crazy is, like, I've tried to write copy that would fall into zone four. Like, I. I've tried to go on the, like, don't miss out, you know, kind of, like, thing. Mine always is either just, like, uninspired and, like, flat or way too depressing.

[Sarah]

Like, everything is awful.

[Nate]

Yeah. Or it just turned into, like, well, whiskey is your only real friend and it's the only thing in your life, so you might as well buy this watch, which is not what we want to be advertising.

[Sarah]

I mean. Yeah. I mean, in my opinion, I wouldn't do it go that direction.

[Nate]

Right. Yeah. We're not.

[Sarah]

Again, we don't want to unnecessarily trigger people. And that's the question I get all the time. Like, Sarah, how do you do this ethically? Right. Because you don't want to trigger people negatively. This is how I would do it, honestly. We're going to remind people that there's a real world out there, man, like that. We got to be living in it. And that's what life is for. To be with the people that we love the most before everything slips away. Because humans forget that time is a thing. This is lovely. This is.

[Nate]

Don't let what matters gets buried. Get buried under what's urgent. This watch is made to remember, I would say the moments that matter.

[Sarah]

Yep. Meaning can be built into every second left. I love that because it's empowering. Now you're ending with hope, right?

[Nate]

Yeah. It's ending on a good note.

[Sarah]

If you're gonna write copy that's lost focus, don't be like, don't miss out. Our product's leaving. Nobody cares. Nobody cares about that. I care though, about meaning, about life.

[Nate]

About building into every second you have left is a bar. Oh, okay.

[Sarah]

Well, let's see.

[Nate]

Zone three. Okay, go for all here.

[Sarah]

Before we shift to this, this call out. This is an upcoming course that I'm gonna give everybody here in a second. This specific like copy that we just wrote is tapping into what's called ought self.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Now I'm going to do a whole nother podcast on what self. Actual self and ideal self is because which ones you activate at which time actually have a huge impact on cold traffic acquisition in particular. So be. Be prepared for that one.

[Nate]

So let me call out one more thing on this too. I think what's so great about how it wrote this, it's not. It's not like accusatory. It's not saying you are running out of time. It's not saying that you are letting what matters get buried under what's urgent. It's. It's all about we. And it's makes it a universal problem so people don't feel attacked. Because I feel like half the time when I see ads or copy that are trying to play on these emotions, it feels like a personal affront of like, yes. Oh, you think I'm being shitty.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Nate]

But that's not what this is.

[Sarah]

100. I think brands spent too much time trying to make people feel bad about where they are. No, don't make people feel bad about their personal situation. Make people understand that their situation is universal and they'll do something about it. Yes. That's why I do what I do, because I freaking love it. Also, Scotty's copy suggestion is hilarious. You're gonna be dead, so why not have a great watch?

[Nate]

Yeah. Get buried in a sick watch.

[Sarah]

Nice watch on while you're dying. I like that, Scotty. I would run that Today, if it was my watch band, I would. I'd be running that. Okay.

[Nate]

Bury me with Bourbon and a nice watch on.

[Sarah]

Okay, so let's do zone three. Now. This is a good episode. I love these, like, application episodes because they're just.

[Nate]

Bury Me with Bourbon would be a good song.

[Sarah]

Next to a moonshine steel. Cause I heard Bury me with Bourbon. Oh, I love that. Why don't you write that? Chat could do it for you, Zone. I don't know. Obviously some weird stuff. Zone three. Zone three for valence. So we're gonna be switching from panic, sadness, loss, anxiety, over to annoyance, disappointment, fatigue, or irritation zone. Whoa. 102. Forge fast. Zone three. So that's what we're switching over to. Let's see what it does. Here we go. So we're not going to scare or inspire or. Or inspire people. We want them to reflect. Right. So low grade emotional exhaustion. Here's the copy that I came up with. The headline is. Are you tired of the same old routine? Body copy. Every day feels the same. Oh, God. Starting off heavy notifications, deadlines, plastic, everything. Somewhere along the way, the next line.

[Nate]

Just says, kill yourself.

[Sarah]

This is terrible. Okay. Somewhere along the way, the things we wear still stopped. Meaning anything. This isn't that Our watches are made from real whiskey barrels, not mass produced trends. Because sometimes even one small, honest thing can make the day feel different. No flash, no noise, just a piece that actually means something. Get one thing right as a cta.

[Nate]

All right. This is my least favorite one we've gotten.

[Sarah]

I was gonna say Zone three. That's so, so funny. Because, like, zone three is one of those that I think a lot of marketers play in irritation at this point. Are you tired of this? Do you want to change something about it? This is where we play a lot in Zone three. And I think this is why you probably don't like it, because it's used a lot by.

[Nate]

I think it's. I think it's used a lot. I also think, like, I. I think because of the specific examples of. Yeah, notifications, deadline and plastic, everything. It's just so much more depressing.

[Sarah]

It is.

[Nate]

Than the last.

[Sarah]

It's supposed to be, right? Disappointment. That's what we're telling it to go after fatigue, like you're tired. Then this down here, right? Like, think psy is what it's going after. Not scream, but like life just feels heavy. Some call outs in here that I do like that it's doing pretty well. Somewhere along the way, the things we wear stopped. Meaning anything that's that hits.

[Nate]

I like that and I like it's made from this and not mass produced trends. Like one small honest thing. Yeah, there are some pieces of it.

[Sarah]

Small honest thing. Yep. But the whole thing together sucks. I did not love it.

[Nate]

So again, so to me, like, this is where.

[Sarah]

Yeah, you gotta write right with it.

[Nate]

And like this is where I, I, I think Zone 4 was so great because it was depressing for a second, but it ended on like. But there's still hope. You can still build meaning of every second you have left where this one just kind of ends with like a hey, don't kill yourself just yet.

[Sarah]

Yeah, like get one thing.

[Nate]

Just get one thing in your dumb fucking life right, you pathetic piece of shit. By this watch. That's how this one feels to me.

[Sarah]

I worry because I know a lot of marketers play in zone three. Do you think that's how we come across to like consumers is.

[Nate]

Yes, it's what I said in the last one was like, I, I, I feel like I'm not good at writing into. What is this? Negative valence, low valence? I don't know, whatever. Three and four.

[Sarah]

Yeah, three and four. Interesting. Yeah, you do write a lot of one and two.

[Nate]

Yeah. And I think it's because I'm like so scared to offend people and so, and not scared to offend people, but scared to like be like, hey, you suck.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

And I have something that can make you better.

[Sarah]

Negative impact.

[Nate]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. That's interesting. Oh, look at that. Thank you. I'm getting lunch.

[Nate]

Yeah, it's nice.

[Sarah]

Consumer Casey. He treats me well.

[Nate]

Yeah. It looked like a salad though, not a steak. So he's not doing that well.

[Sarah]

It is a salad. I do. Yeah, it is a salad. He also brought me a starburst. That was nice of him. He knows I love starbursts.

[Nate]

Text him and say, hey, next time.

[Sarah]

Ribbon, rare. That whole box of paydays. So this is, I find this really interesting because You Love Zone 4, which was high intensity. Loved it. Very, very interesting. Very different from how you normally like write Zone three, though. Low valence, low intensity was like abrasive to you. It was like, ick, I gave you the ick a little bit. That's interesting.

[Nate]

Yeah. I think zone four does a really job of making this feel like a universal, like the human condition kind of problem.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

And not something with your specific life. And then it ends on a positive.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Nate]

Zone three, I feel like, is just depressing. So depressing. And like calls out specific stuff of like, oh, no. What are you gonna do? Wake up, go to work again, do the same? And then it doesn't even. It won't end on any hope, like, you can make the rest of your life better. It's just like, well, if your life's gonna suck forever, you might as well have a cool watch.

[Sarah]

Okay, so tldr, to all the marketers out there, if you think you play in zone three a lot, the reaction you just saw from Nate, that's the reaction you're getting from your customers too. So be careful. Be careful what you do. Okay, so it asks specifically if we want to do a comparison of all four.

[Nate]

Sure.

[Sarah]

Do you want to see what that is? And then. Okay. And then we should probably end this episode because it's going to be forever. Okay, so here's full valence intensity mount comparison for the original grade watch ad. A little bit rewritten, Right? So zone one, high valence, low intensity. The animotion is calm, cozy, supportive. The targeting self would be like present self seeking peace. And the voice is very, very gentle. So that was very much, like, crafted for quiet moments, not every moment is loud. That was zone one. Zone two, High valence, high intensity. We're talking to pride, joy, empowerment, speaking to the ideal self, who they want to become. We'll talk about that on another episode. But the voice is confident and bold. This one was the one that was carve your own path. That's where you're currently sitting. And yeah, this one was specifically like, whiskey makes good times. So you're. You're good at zone two. I think you could probably practice more in zone one, but, yeah, I think zone three.

[Nate]

I think I'm better at writing for zone one if I smoked weed instead of drink whiskey.

[Sarah]

Okay. All right. Jesus.

[Nate]

Do you disagree? Do you disagree?

[Sarah]

Really high.

[Adele]

I mean, all I need are some tasty waves, cool buzz, and I'm not really.

[Sarah]

But also, we can't endorse anything on this show other than just, like, have a good time.

[Nate]

I think you did say this is going to be a kid friendly episode.

[Sarah]

I did, but it's not. Yeah, they're never.

[Nate]

And then if you want to get good at zone four, do coke.

[Sarah]

Oh, my God. What is going on? All right, zone 30, low balance, low intensity. This was the one we hated. Fatigue, boredom, disappointment, actual self stuck in a loop. We're talking a tired voice, honest voice, subtle voice, which is tired of the same old routine. And then this one was like, just get one thing right. You. You absolute horrible person.

[Nate]

Yeah. Your life's gonna Suck forever. Might as well buy this cool watch.

[Sarah]

We didn't love zone four. Okay, so zone three. We didn't love zone four. Low valence, high intensity. This is the one that Nate loved the most. This emotion was talking to panic, sadness, urgency, targeting the ought self. And then the voice was poignant and emotional serious. Time doesn't wait, right? Moments slip by, so before the moment's gone, live with intention. So, yeah, interesting stuff here, man. You got some really cool things you could test.

[Nate]

This is awesome. Can you do me a favor?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate]

Can you copy and paste all of that into the Google Doc? I just chat.

[Sarah]

Yes. God almighty. Sarah is doing a lot of Nate's job for him, so don't worry about.

[Nate]

Yeah, it's great. Thanks.

[Sarah]

What do you think of this?

[Nate]

This was awesome. I want to do this with, like seven other ads that I already have in mind.

[Sarah]

Yes. Go take your ads, specifically the ones that was like, this should have worked, but it didn't, and I can't figure out why. It's because of the valence and the intensity. That's all it is. You just.

[Nate]

Well, and like, I think. Okay, so should I be using this as like. Thank you for basing on it.

[Sarah]

You're welcome. Hey, making money this week.

[Nate]

I can't wait to show this to my team. I'm going to show my team the seven page document. Look what I did this afternoon.

[Sarah]

Okay, let me ask you that for me. That's ridiculous. All right, they'll hear this.

[Nate]

They'll figure it out in two weeks. Should I be using this? Like, do different zones work better on different people?

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Nate]

So, like, should. Should people me? Should we be using this to, like, say the same message, but hopefully, like, each way we say it just kind of strikes a different type of person?

[Sarah]

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Because you're. You'll be doing more identity activation. There'll be somebody who doesn't really identify with the car of your own path, but they may heavily identify with time doesn't wait. So, yeah, technically speaking, what you should also do is segment this down by gender. So your female audience needs a very different valence.

[Nate]

I was gonna say this is all masculine, right?

[Sarah]

Yep, yep. This is all masculine because it came off of a masculine focused ad. So all these were shifted towards that one person who responded well towards card your own path. Cardio path. And so now it's kind of just like taking little bits of that and making it different quadrant. So, yeah, technically, yeah, this is awesome. Thank you.

[Nate]

Where can people do this.

[Sarah]

More? If you want to Learn how to do this type of stuff and use all the frameworks that Sarah builds for Nate literally for free and, you know, basically doing his job.

[Nate]

We're paying you a little bit these days.

[Sarah]

A little bit. That's true. You guys are doing more deep work with me anyways. If you want to learn frameworks like this, though, I have like hundreds of these coming. Like, Sarah just has a crap ton of this type of shit sitting in my brain that I'm like, here, have all this cool stuff that will literally help you market without having to do anything. Come over to. To the community. So I launched a psychology community that's specifically for marketers who do things a little weird, a little different. Marketers like Nate who just kind of gets it right. If you want to come join a crowd of people who are actively studying how to use psychology in your advertising, tenant community is going to be for you. This is one of the places that you can go to find all this kind of like framework type stuff. But it's also filled with all sorts of resources, ways to learn, books like check sheets, like checklists, all kinds of different things to help you apply it. Because psychology is fun. But if you don't know how to apply it like this, it's almost impossible to use. So come over and check us out. Go to skool.com that's S-K-O-O-L.com backslash tether-lab t-e r-l I b te-lab yeah, go check it out.

[Nate]

Link it also, by the way, just link it. No one's gonna type in that URL.

[Sarah]

I'll link it for you. The price is increasing, guys. Every week I'm increasing prices mostly because, like, we're growing really fast and I get nervous that I can't get everybody one to one attention. So, like, come in while you still can on the price this week. It's going to increase next week. But yeah, this is what I teach every day, stuff like this. Okay, what else? What else we got? I'm so glad you liked it.

[Nate]

This was awesome.

[Sarah]

Yes. Sign up for the newsletter. Thank you. Scotty, go check out tetherinsights. IO Tether Insights is also where we go much, much deeper. If you want to work one on one with Sarah and I to get some really, really deep insights on the behavioral and emotional and identities that exist inside your tam. That's what Nate's doing this year, and you guys are clearly doing incredibly well. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, you know psychology, you apply it and it works. And then you just get sit there and golf all day like Nate does. So yeah, pretty much it's a good episode. I'm glad you got a lot of value from this. I find it.

[Nate]

This is awesome.

[Sarah]

Valens is really interesting. There's a lot more to it too. There's hundreds of things, so. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. Like subscribe tip your baristas Brain Driven.

[Adele]

Brands is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast Network and is presented by Tether Insights. For more information, go to tetherinsights IO.