Static Creative Ads, hate it or love it? (Feat. Joanna Wallace)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Brain Driven Brands

Episode: Static Creative Ads, hate it or love it? (Feat. Joanna Wallace)
Date: August 21, 2025
Host: Sarah Levinger
Guests: Nate Legos, Joanna Wallace

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Sarah Levinger and Nate Legos are joined by creative director Joanna Wallace to dissect the effectiveness of static image ads for e-commerce brands, focusing specifically on recent campaigns for Original Grain watches. The panel explores what makes certain visuals and copy resonate (or not) with audiences, grounding their discussion in neuromarketing and practical psychology. Real ad examples are evaluated in a “love it or hate it” style, with honest, expert feedback and strong opinions on design, psychology, and ad performance.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Intent vs. Perception in Ad Messaging

• Theme: The same copy can signal different things to different audiences, sometimes diverging from the brand’s original intention.
• Insight: Joanna highlights how masculine messaging (“built for men who show up every day...”) can unintentionally attract both “alpha” males and humble, hardworking types (03:43).
  • Notable Quote:
    • "You're attracting an Alpha who does think he's better than everyone. So if that's what you're going for..." — Joanna Wallace, 01:47
    • "Every guy, even if they're super soft and work at a computer all day, like I do...we want to feel like that guy.” — Nate Legos, 04:14
• Takeaway: Messaging should be checked for unintended signals, but broad masculine themes often appeal universally because many men identify with the “hardworking” or “better-than-my-coworker” archetype (04:37).

2. Readability and Visual Hierarchy Are Critical

• Theme: Stunning visuals can be undermined by bad typographic choices.
• Insight: Joanna repeatedly returns to the vital importance of readability, noting that “readability is always king” (05:36). Ads with small fonts or poor contrast, especially on mobile, risk losing their message, regardless of beauty.
  • Notable Quote:
    • "We don't make art—we make ads. So readability is always king." — Joanna Wallace, 05:36
• Takeaway: Prioritize big, eye-catching headlines (“thumbstoppy” copy) and follow with readable subcopy. Design should facilitate, not obscure, the message (10:39).

3. Unexpected Success of “Imperfect” Ads

• Theme: Sometimes what experts dislike performs best.
• Insight: An underlit, hard-to-read ad outperformed expectations, suggesting that disruption—darker colors, unpolished looks—stands out in bright, colorful social feeds (06:49-07:04). This validates the “run it and see” mindset even if the creative feels counterintuitive to marketers.
  • Notable Quote:
    • "I mean, I call things wrong all the time." — Joanna Wallace, 06:21
    • "If there's one thing I've learned, it's just...just run it." — Nate Legos, 06:26
• Takeaway: Ad predictions are unreliable—test everything. Sometimes, visual oddities (“something got burnt,” “tasting whiskey”) grab more attention than “perfect” creative (06:49).

4. The Psychology of Product Themes: Whiskey, Masculinity, Legacy

• Theme: Associative imagery (whiskey, old-fashioned drinks) and evocative copy prime emotional responses that boost ad recall and brand affinity.
• Insight: Words like “whiskey” are highly effective scroll stoppers for the target demographic. Details connecting the product (watches) to classic, rugged, “legacy” masculinity land harder than abstract appeals (07:17).
  • Notable Quote:
    • "Put whiskey in any...most men will stop.” — Joanna Wallace, 07:17
    • "Like, the manliest alcohol.” — Joanna Wallace, 07:22
• Takeaway: Marrying masculine tropes with tactile details (old-fashioned drinks, “reclaimed whiskey barrel wood”) taps deeply into consumer identity and nostalgia.

5. Balancing Cleverness With Clarity

• Theme: Being clever should never come at the cost of confusing the viewer.
• Insight: The watch ads manage to be “clever without it coming across as confusing,” often through well-calibrated euphemism and “speakeasy” vibes. However, when in doubt, err on the side of clarity and simplicity (09:40).
  • Notable Quote:
    • "You can be clever without it coming across as confusing, because a lot of people try to do clever stuff and it comes out like, 'what in the hell are you talking about?'" — Sarah Levinger, 09:40
• Takeaway: Bold, readable headlines should precede any nuanced humor or subtle references.

6. Testing and Incremental Design Changes

• Theme: Data trumps creative preference. Use A/B testing for continuous improvement.
• Insight: Sarah suggests if an ad is successful, the next step should be testing increased font size to see if performance can be pushed even further (11:03).
  • Notable Quote:
    • "The next test I would do is increase the size of the tiny font and see what an A/B looks like next to each other..." — Sarah Levinger, 11:03
• Takeaway: Never stop iterating, and let data guide creative decisions.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joanna Wallace (01:47): "You're attracting an Alpha who does think he's better than everyone. So if that's what you're going for..."
• Nate Legos (04:14): “Every guy, even if they're super soft and work at a computer all day, like I do...we want to feel like that guy.”
• Joanna Wallace (05:36): "We don't make art—we make ads. So readability is always king."
• Sarah Levinger (09:40): "You can be clever without it coming across as confusing, because a lot of people try to do clever stuff and it comes out like, 'what in the hell are you talking about?'"
• Joanna Wallace (07:17): "Put whiskey in any...most men will stop."
• Sarah Levinger (11:03): “The next test I would do is increase the size of the tiny font and see what an AB looks like next to each other…”

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Key Segment Timestamps

• Ad Messaging Analysis (Masculinity, Audience)
  • 01:07–04:43: Breakdown of tone, audience perceptions, and copy ("alpha" vs blue-collar men).
• Readability & Visual Assessment
  • 05:07–06:39: Discussion on how visual choices and font size impact ad effectiveness.
• Unexpected Ad Performance & Testing Mentality
  • 06:14–07:04: The team reflects on how ads that defy creative intuition can surprise in performance.
• Psychological Triggers in Product Themes
  • 07:17–08:09: The importance of using universal masculine tropes and recognizable cues.
• Cleverness vs. Clarity
  • 09:40–10:39: Reflecting on wordplay, euphemisms, and the importance of not confusing the audience.
• Iterative Creative Testing
  • 11:03–11:21: Calling out the need for continual A/B testing and incremental improvements.

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Conclusion

This fast-paced, insight-packed episode explores both the pitfalls and payoffs of static creative ads for e-commerce via candid critique and rigorous neuromarketing frameworks. Whether you’re looking for quick copywriting tips (“big readable headline beats pretty font”) or psychological triggers (“whiskey and legacy = instant appeal”), Sarah, Nate, and Joanna deliver actionable guidance for brands seeking better ad performance in crowded feeds. The consensus: test everything, double down on clarity, and don’t get too precious about “perfection.”

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome back to Brain Driven Brands with Sarah, Nate, and Joanna. What's going on, ladies?

[B]

Hey. Hey. Joanna Wallace. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you.

[C]

Yeah. No one knows who I am.

[B]

I know.

[A]

You are Joanna Wallace, creative director extraordinaire. I don't know you that well. How's that?

[C]

You just met. Yeah, but he's just defined me. Like when I asked chat GPT define.

[B]

Who I am for the director. That's literally all we are now. It's just comes down to our job. What are we talking about today, Nate?

[A]

Well, today, you know, my favorite thing to do on this podcast, Sarah, is to get free consulting from you. Now that we brought on a guest, I want to get free consulting from them too.

[C]

I'll tell you later. Let's go. Let's go.

[A]

Cool.

[C]

Cool.

[A]

Sarah, don't give her my contact info so she can't send me an invoice. All right, today we're going to look at some of our recent ads that we're spinning up at a Original grain, and Joanne is going to tell me if she loves them or hates them.

[B]

So do it. Love or hate. Real quick. We'll do that.

[C]

Are these top performers? Are these a mix? Like, am I supposed to guess?

[A]

If they worked, this is going to be a mix.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

That's all I would do. All right, so this is an ad of one of our top watches. It's laying flat on some kind of leather, and it says, you don't just buy this watch, you earn it. We didn't make this watch for everybody. It's built for men who show up every day, work hard, and earn their keep. For the men who never quit, we build watches that won't quit on you. Built for living and worn for legacy.

[B]

I like the watch choice that you got too, because this one's, like, really dark wood, dark metal.

[C]

Like, I love the texture. I love the visual. My question is. So you're speaking to a very certain kind of man, and you're kind of insulting a whole bunch of others.

[B]

Oh, I think that's on purpose.

[C]

Yeah. So, I mean, so you're. You're attracting an Alpha who does think he's better than everyone. So if that's what you're going for.

[B]

A great read Alpha in this. Oh, that's fascinating.

[C]

I read Alpha because it's. It's. Oh, my God, the font is so small, girl. Like, can we zoom in? I can't see. There we go. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I. I guess show up for work every day. Okay, that. That's True. It's not saying show up for work every day in finance with a white.

[B]

Okay. But I. I actually really love your initial reaction because that's.

[A]

That's interesting because that's not what I'm going for.

[B]

Yeah. Nate and I are so close to this brand that we know who we thought it was for. Your reaction, though, was like, oh, you're going for, like, type A men, like, peak, pinnacle man. I'm like, I mean, is that what you read?

[C]

Oh, it's very masculine, obviously. It's like, built.

[A]

Yes. Masculine. I wrote it for, like, blue collar, humble sacrifice for their family kind of guy.

[C]

So. I see that also.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

I. I do see that also. I think it depends on who's looking at it. I think it could appeal to people who think they're better than everyone, and I think it could appeal to people who work with their hands and are like, fuck, yeah, I'm a real man, Nate.

[B]

You might be drawn in the person you don't want to draw.

[C]

Also, every day has a space. So, I mean, you did the right thing with having the, like, sort of typo so that it's not AI. Although honestly, AI has typos.

[B]

So, like, all right, love or hate it. What do you think?

[A]

Give it a score out of 10.

[C]

God, eight.

[B]

Oh, okay. Yeah. All right. On to the next one.

[C]

It's. It's just the texture. The visual is so good, man.

[B]

It is. You're.

[C]

It's. You see the quality in the image and it's just. Yeah, peak.

[B]

That's really interesting. While you're finding another one. I find it interesting when you start to look at how people respond to different ads in different ways. Because Nate and I are so deep into this brand and we've been working on it together for like four years that we're constantly trying to communicate to the man who's not peak, pinnacle, a type. We're trying to communicate to somebody who's like, very self sacrificing type of dude.

[C]

But I.

[B]

But that's not what you read, which I was like, oh, But I think.

[C]

Anybody who works hard and long hours, like, I picture the finance guy feeling like he's sacrificing because, like, has he seen his kids?

[A]

No, definitely not. He hasn't.

[C]

I think everybody wants to see themselves as that man. Yeah. So I think it doesn't necessarily matter.

[B]

Oh, true.

[C]

The audience. Because every man wants to feel like their testosterone has been put to good use.

[A]

That. That is what we've talked about here. Like, with me, like, I work in E Com. Like, I'm not a tough, manly man, but I'm like, well, like, I'm trying to do some, like, cool, like, real mansions while I ride bulls and building a fence for goats soon. But, like, yeah, every guy, even if they're super soft and work at a computer all day, like, I do. Like, we want to feel like that guy.

[C]

Yeah, No, I think it's. I think it's. Yeah. And everyone feels like they're better than their co worker. They work harder than their co worker.

[A]

Yeah, obviously.

[B]

All right, next.

[A]

Next ad. Way less copy on this. Also, a photo that's, like, not lit well. It's, like, shot, like, through, like, the shadow of some blinds and just says the name of the, the watch on it. The Charred Whiskey Rugged Automatic has a little inset picture showing the premium packaging as well.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So readability is the first thing I'm concerned about with this. I can't read Rugged Automatic because you're doing a high contrast background. Auto is just. I lost it. So I had to take a second and. Care to look at that? The other thing is I can't read anything in that picture. In picture, like.

[B]

Yeah, well, and this is. If you hold up the phone, this is about the size.

[C]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Interesting.

[C]

And I just can't. I can't read it.

[A]

But I do think we have a small font problem.

[C]

I like the vibe. I mean, readability. This is like art. You know what I mean? And it's. We don't make art, we make ads. So readability is always king.

[B]

Yeah. What do you think about the image and the, like, light bands?

[C]

I like it. I, I, I, I mean, it would look. AI. I wish that we had the light bands in the background and then the watch didn't have that. Oh, I think if you had a little bit more light focus on the watch, that it could, like, glisten. Not glisten. Like, you know what I mean? Like, the metal would have a bit of a reflection. I think it would, Would stand out more.

[A]

Yeah. This is rare for us. Like, usually everything we do is very polished and lit.

[C]

Well, did this do well? Am I just, like, wrong?

[A]

This is ripping. Yeah. Hate to be the one to tell you that, but this is ripping right now.

[C]

Oh, man. Listen, I have this. I mean, I call it. Call things wrong all the time.

[A]

Yeah. Well, no, and, like, same for me. Like, I didn't like this. I didn't want to. To run it, but if there's one thing I've learned, it's just.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

Just run it. Yeah. I mean, good call. Out for Scotty. Like, the psychology behind this is really interesting because on the feed, typically you see a lot of color, a lot of bright things, a lot of white things, a lot of, like, very intense, chunky colors. This is like something got burnt. Like, I'm tasting whiskey. Yeah.

[C]

I'll say that.

[B]

It looks very dark moody, which is difficult. Like, on Meta, you don't see dark and moody very often.

[C]

So it does make you want to take a second look to see, like, what am I missing?

[B]

What is it?

[C]

What is this?

[A]

That is my theory as to why it is working. Like, it makes people look at it.

[C]

Yeah, you gotta. You gotta want to take a second look. And I think that the copy and the confusion does do that. Yeah. I think put whiskey in any. Most men will stop.

[A]

We have seen, like, the giant word. Whiskey is a good scroll.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Like the manliest alcohol.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And the color. Yeah.

[B]

No, this one I saw earlier today and I loved it, but. Yeah. Your. Your thoughts first. Ooh, Life's better old fashioned.

[A]

This is one of our watches sitting on a whiskey stave with a nice little red kind of glow behind it. And then it says, life's better old fashioned. And below, it's got a little cutaway to an old fashioned drink. Little tongue in cheek.

[B]

You know, doing really well, though, because there for a while, I couldn't tell what the. I couldn't tell what your snippets were like. There was a time where he was using, like, fire in behind it or like metal in behind it, and it would zoom in so close. I was like, what is that? Like, what's the thing?

[A]

This, like, the drink is more readable.

[B]

I can tell it's an old Fashioned very quickly, which is good.

[C]

I mean, the product looks amazing.

[B]

I know.

[C]

I mean, the hierarchy is really interesting. Yeah. I. I just don't even want to guess anymore, but I really like this.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

Up, like, it's staring up to the sky.

[C]

It's kind of like.

[B]

That's awesome. Like, I've seen it in a few of your ads, and that seems to crush pretty consistently. Something.

[A]

Yeah, we call that the, like, superhero.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

For the watches, like, they're standing with hand on their hips, like, looking up.

[C]

And it also mimics like a split screen almost.

[B]

Oh, yeah. I didn't even notice that because, like.

[C]

The product is like, completely on its own. Like, let. Let it have a spotlight.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

When you look down, it gets busier, but gives you context and it's done well.

[A]

It's launched today, so no clue but we're talking about life's better the old fashioned way. This watch was made for the quiet moments where time slows down. There's no notifications to distract you. Just aged whiskey barrel wood inlaid over each gear. Counting the moments that really matter. Because the best times are the ones you don't want to check your watch for.

[B]

This is made with my system. This is available. Valence copy, people. Valence copy.

[A]

All right, last one. This one. One of our top whiskey barrel watches. When this open, it's shot. It's actually hard to tell, but it is shot. Like on a pool of whiskey. That didn't really come out in the photo. Um, but it says when the dress code is whiskey neat. Choose a watch built for straight shooters, made from reclaimed whiskey barrel wood.

[B]

I like that you guys can be clever without it coming across as confusing because a lot of people try to do clever stuff and it comes out like, what are you. What in the hell are you talking about? You've got. You have so many euphemisms in psychic vibe.

[C]

Really?

[B]

Well, yeah, yeah.

[C]

Like, like, like I've just been getting speakeasy from all of these.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

I feel like I'm in it. I can smell it.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I mean, I think it's doing great because this is whiskey. Really big.

[B]

That's the key.

[A]

Yeah, it should be, if not yet. I think this is, like, one of my favorite ads we've ever made, and it's not doing much yet, so we'll see.

[B]

Yeah. Readability.

[A]

I know. Do we just need to double our font size on everything? At least on all the, like, small stuff?

[B]

Yeah, I would. If it's going to change the, like, design and the feel of it just slightly. But you'd rather go for readability over pretty, you know, I know.

[A]

I think we'd like all these to look like, like vintage, like, magazine ads, but then it gets hard to read.

[C]

I think you've. The way you've gotten around it is that you have really, really good, big headlines that pull you in and then you. You want to read the fine print. So I think that if you don't have a big headline that's really thumbstoppy, then this would not work. But you've managed to have that balance of thumb stoppy. And then sit and think if this.

[B]

One performs well, the next test I would do is increase the size of the tiny font and see what an AB looks like next to each other, but only if it crushes for like, a while.

[A]

Yeah, makes sense. We do have other variations of this in different headline and text formats and stuff that I think are more readable. So, yeah, and we'll see. Okay, I gotta go.

[B]

Joining us, everybody, follow Nate Legos at Nate Legos on Twitter.

[C]

Follow Joanna Jo Wall202.

[B]

Thank you. I was like, I know it's Joe Wall, but you had numbers and I couldn't remember what the numbers.

[C]

It's my old area code.

[B]

No, wall 202. Follow me at Sarah Lavender. That was the quickest episode we've ever done. Boom.

[A]

Brain Driven Brands is part of the.

[B]

Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire.

[A]

Podcast network and is presented by Tether Insights.

[B]

For more information, go to tetherinsights IO.