← Brain Driven Brands
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to Brain Driven Brands. Coming at you from the east coast. This week, it's a fully east coast podcast crew. Sarah down Florida. I'm still holding a dad down Carolina.
- [00:14]
B
You are? Are you in South Care or North Care? Do they call that that? No care. Can I. Can I. Can I truncate it to care?
- [00:23]
A
No, you can't. Damn it.
- [00:25]
B
All right, I'm sorry. You said South North.
- [00:27]
A
South Carolina.
- [00:29]
B
That's interesting. You're better one, actually. Just. I have family that are out there. I almost never come to the east coast, but Florida is. Is lovely at particular periods of the year.
- [00:40]
A
Yeah.
- [00:41]
B
All year round.
- [00:42]
A
Now is the right time. The last six.
- [00:45]
B
Oh, my gosh. We're gonna go to the beach this afternoon. Like, it's gonna be perfect. I have heard that the summers are awful, but I've never really been here.
- [00:51]
A
Yeah, they're bad.
- [00:52]
B
Right now, Colorado is dead and dry and very cold and just not enjoyable to be around. So I'm so sorry, kids. I left you with grandma.
- [01:01]
A
We're having a weird cold snap right now, too. It is 49 degrees and raining out right now.
- [01:07]
B
Oh, no, thank you.
- [01:08]
A
Which is not good for everything. I just planted in the pasture at all.
- [01:13]
B
What do you plant?
- [01:15]
A
Rye grass.
- [01:16]
B
You have, like, an actual pasture now? I keep forgetting.
- [01:19]
A
Yeah.
- [01:19]
B
And you're gonna get cows.
- [01:22]
A
Cows and goats soon.
- [01:23]
B
Now, what type of cows are these? Are these, like, steak cows or are they, like steak cows? You don't want to get just, like, display cows.
- [01:32]
A
I mean, we'll display them for a few years and then they'll be displayed across.
- [01:36]
B
My wife doesn't want to get. Your wife doesn't want to get, like, an ornamental, like, Highland cow. Isn't that what they are? They're real fuzzy, like, hairy. They're so cute.
- [01:47]
A
No, no.
- [01:47]
B
You should get her a pet cow. That's the best kind of cow. The one that just wanders around and gets into. And you just. You don't want that kind of cow.
- [01:56]
A
No, I don't want to pay to take care of an animal we're not going to eat.
- [02:00]
B
I would get too attached to them. That's my problem. I would get so attached to these cows.
- [02:05]
A
The problem that people have is they name them. And that problem, the way that we're gonna name them, we're gonna reframe it so it stays in our mind what they are. I'm just gonna name these cows, like ribeye steak and steak tips. They're just all gonna have food.
- [02:25]
B
I want to talk about something on this episode. That actually came about because I, I saw a tweet. I, I don't usually go back too far in my tweets, which I probably should because I posted five years of content. So I need to go back and like, look at what I was talking about last year. But this one came up because somebody had referenced it and it was the podcast from last year where we talked about the top. I think it was like the seven things that we got wrong as marketers in 2024. Things that are like globally, like universally. What did we just not do great at last year? So that we can look forward into 2025 or in this case 2026 and talk about what do we actually need to do better this year? Because I feel like 2025 kind of a shitstorm and we did a lot of things in real weird, roundabout ways. So I have a list of things that I'm like, here's some of the things that I see globally. Do you, do you have stuff that you can share? You're like, okay, okay, first one, I think we in 2025, especially something we should not do in 2026, we treat the outputs as the goal, not the outcomes. We got so sucked into this like AI bullshit of like we need to output as many ads as we possibly can. We treated 2025 like the game was as many ads as possible. And I think that's so detrimental to brands. It's incredibly easy way to burn out your entire team, but it's also not the frickin point. More ads is not the point. If it was, all of us would be billionaires. Yeah, I'll just be dumping it in 2026. I really want to see people define maybe one to two, like key outcomes that you need in your business and focus on that. Less production and more focused on the actual outcome that you try to go for.
- [04:09]
A
Yeah, I think like that could be taken to a lot of things outside of the world of advertising as well. Like the way that I look at it is like how many ads do I want to create? The least amount. We need to hit our business goals. Yeah, the least amount isn't the ideal scenario to do the least amount of work, to make the most amount of money.
- [04:29]
B
100%.
- [04:30]
A
And I, I think there's a lot of things like that in Ecom where, yeah, we prioritize a certain amount of output. When it's like, no, we should actually think the opposite. We should do the least output possible.
- [04:40]
B
To hit the outcomes that our steps. And I can't wait to see More of this in 2026 where we slow back away from the volume game and get a little bit more strategic and focused.
- [04:50]
A
Yeah. All right. I'm going to actually go to my number two one because it kind of pig on what you had.
- [04:56]
B
Okay, let's pause for just a minute.
- [04:59]
A
Prospecting on Meta in 2025 has been a huge pain. Reaching net new people is getting harder and harder and harder. And the only thing meta seems to care about is rolling out more AI slot features that take away a lot of our controls as advertisers. So brands have been looking for another side and they're turning to other side. Other side is an agency that figured out how to turn programmatic advertising into a performance marketing channel. They're able to advertise outside the meta ecosystem system, show clear and accurate attribution, and they have the ability to prospect and retarget across platforms. So you're able to unlock huge new audiences that aren't like us. They're not chronically on Meta and Instagram. For brain driven brands listeners, they're running a crazy offer right now. They'll run your ads for free for two months to prove to you it works. Then you can either part ways or continue at their normal affordable retainer. But they're making this risk free and it's a no brainer for you to try. So go to join the other side.com and let them know we sent you.
- [05:55]
B
And now back to the show.
- [05:57]
A
We thought AI was ready.
- [05:59]
B
Oh, I feel this in my soul.
- [06:02]
A
And it's just not.
- [06:03]
B
Yes.
- [06:03]
A
And like I'm sorry to everyone building an AI company right now, but it's going to be a couple of years and I acknowledge that it's getting better and one day it will be great. But it's just not ready. And we pretended like it was and a lot of you guys are still pretending like it is. And like Friday I was writing new copy and I was working with Claude. My first time on. On with Claude.
- [06:30]
B
Really? That's your first time?
- [06:31]
A
Yeah. I've been a chat loyalist since day one, but I've had the same problem with chat and Claude and Gemini. I asked it to do a thing and it just ignored half my instruction and did what it wanted to do. And this is the stuff that makes me want to grab engineers and sh them and be like, hey, isn't the point of having robots doing our job means they are going to follow every single thing we say to a te without pushback, without attitude? Why am I getting like chat trying to like Sneak off early from work is basically what it's doing and it really is frustrating.
- [07:14]
B
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think what we have exactly what.
- [07:18]
A
I tell it to do and nothing else.
- [07:19]
B
Yeah, yeah. I think we went way too hard at the concept that this is going to make my job a lot easier because it will think for me. That's what I saw at the very beginning was people were like, this is a thinking tool now. That's still how I think is not.
- [07:32]
A
The hard part of any of our jobs, by the way.
- [07:34]
B
Yeah, I'm just like, wow, this is fascinating. I personally still use it as like a second brain, so I can double check my work, but I use it more to like understand a concept so that I can go think better, not so that it can think for me, there's a very big difference. So. And yeah, I, I personally think this is going to be kind of like the hot take of 2026, which is like you're going to see a lot more people kind of moving back towards, let's put this back with humans GPTs. The ads they come up with are awful unless you're so, so careful with how you prompt them.
- [08:06]
A
So, yeah, well. And like that's what I, I'd say is like, I, I, it's still easier for me and my workflow to do the thinking and the photography and the graphic design ourselves. And the level of output is so much higher. They're like, yeah, maybe using AI is faster, cheaper, but it's not better. So pass.
- [08:26]
B
Hard pass. Hard pass. Okay. Oh, gosh, now I don't know which one I want to move to next. I think something we did in 2025 heavily was we started building for everybody. We started speaking. So blanket statement, because I think of the volume issue that we just, we didn't really speak to anybody because of this kind of spray and pray spaghetti kind of a method that we were using. And I think some of the real gold lies in being really specific with your ads and going after some of the things that we talk about on the show. Like a couple weeks ago, we talked specifically about going after the very specific wins that happened in someone's journey, and especially the ones where you can kind of activate somebody's experience that they're having in the real world, like when, when I went to get extensions a couple weeks ago. Activating these very nuanced wins are going to be key to, I think, putting in a little bit more data into the system as to who you want to go market towards. Because right now we're just talking to everybody.
- [09:25]
A
Yeah.
- [09:26]
B
Because we're using such generalized, like, language. So. Yeah.
- [09:29]
A
Love it. All right, I'm going to hit one that is on a similar vein to that.
- [09:33]
B
Okay.
- [09:34]
A
I think we need to be less worried about offending people in advertising, and I think we should be willing to take hard stances on things. And I'll, I'll, I'll give the example that we had this year from OG that kind of, like, woke me up to it. It was like, March.
- [09:50]
B
Okay.
- [09:51]
A
And we ran a, A commercial. Commercial. Ux. We ran an ad on Facebook where basically a commercial, the guy wearing the watch was lighting a cigarette.
- [10:02]
B
Oh, that's right. I remember this. And that ad blew up at this one. Yeah.
- [10:07]
A
And the amount of comments from people that were like, it's so refreshing to see a cigarette in an ad again, kind of blew me away. And I, I, I think there's this, like, this yearning for stuff that's real and, like, uncensored, because everyone's trying to be polished and everyone's trying to be whatever you want to call it, politically correct or woke or sensitive. It's too much like.
- [10:33]
B
Yeah.
- [10:33]
A
And especially if you have a brand for dudes, for, like, people who don't care about that at all. Just be real. Be realer than you've ever been in your advertising.
- [10:42]
B
Well. And you would be shocked when you put in something from real life into an ad that doesn't sound like it was put there on purpose.
- [10:49]
A
Yeah.
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B
Because we got so scripted with udc and all these creators were just like, this is my morning routine. I'm like, that is not your morning routine, girl. Are you kidding me?
- [10:57]
A
Well, and, like, what's so funny is, like, that's how it happened. It came up organically. Like, we were on a shoot. It's like 6am because you got to shoot at dawn and you shoot at dawn. No, because it's better for lighting. Like, it actually is.
- [11:15]
B
Okay, continue.
- [11:16]
A
So, so we're up early. Everyone's exhausted. We drank too much the night before. We take a break to, like, look at the shots we've taken so far. And the, the model is like, do you guys mind if I take a quick smoke break? And we're like, yeah. And then I was like, actually, wait, Come back with that. And we put it in. Like, it wasn't in the news board, but it's like, yeah. Like, this is a dude who lives and works on a ranch and smokes. Like, why would we not show that if that's the lifestyle we're Trying to show.
- [11:46]
B
That'd be so interesting to see, especially for your new brand that you're working on. What kind of lifestyle do these people live and what things are they partaking in that like, now we are not smoking. We're complete opposite market. But what kinds of things are they partaking in that we are like a little faux pas. Little bit. Not a lot, just a little. Right. So for somebody who's like, super into nutrition or super into, like, their body and their health, are they also putting, like, Starbucks creamer in their coffee? Because it's like, I. 100%. I'm like, yeah, wine.
- [12:19]
A
That's not.
- [12:19]
B
But, yeah, but, like, this is my tree. Like, this is. So I'd be interested to see how many of those exist in all of these. Different. That's a good one.
- [12:25]
A
Yeah.
- [12:26]
B
Oh, my gosh. Okay, what are we up to now? That was four. So fifth one. This kind of aligns with that. I saw a lot of people that were forgetting brand voice. They got inconsistent with their messages. They tried to tailor messages by channel, which I didn't see. I didn't see a whole lot of people that, like, had great, big success with this. They had some success, but it would, like, peak and die. Peek and die. Peak and die. Because they were trying to move after trends more than anything else. So I. I'm hoping that in 2026, this is something we talked about before on this podcast, too. I want to move back to campaign driven. Campaign driven marketing, where we choose one specific theme that we're going to go after for either this month or six weeks or this quarter, whatever it is, do what the big brands do and launch it out and stay consistent with it so the people will. Will actually generate good recall. Because people cannot generate recall if your ad looks like the last five UGC that they've seen today.
- [13:20]
A
Yep.
- [13:21]
B
So campaign driven, I think, is going to be so much more important. 2026. And I cannot wait for this come back.
- [13:27]
A
So this actually goes great with my next one as well. Still haven't done my number one that I had. So we'll get back to. To.
- [13:35]
B
All right, all right, all right.
- [13:36]
A
We'll get to this one. I think people are underestimating or forgetting that there are people on the other side of our ads. And like, this especially comes out, I think, in the concept of creative testing, because you're right, people are dropping in, like one new headline onto an ad. If it doesn't hit a Roas goal within 48 hours, they kill it or they decide it's A loser.
- [13:58]
B
Yeah.
- [13:58]
A
And like, that is so asinine to me.
- [14:01]
B
Like crazy.
- [14:02]
A
I think at the core of this, what I have written down here is give your advertising time to work. I think people have forgotten that people do not buy based on a clever ad. They do not see something for the first time. Click on it and check out. Like, that is not the process that we see. Customers.
- [14:24]
B
Yeah.
- [14:25]
A
So if you have an idea, go test a handful of ways to message that idea and let them run. Even the, the folks out there who think they sell something, that's an impulse buy. It's not. The only impulse buys that exist today are candy at the register, at checkout. There's nothing else.
- [14:43]
B
Yep.
- [14:44]
A
So give your advertising and give your campaigns time to work.
- [14:49]
B
I just, I don't, I have no notes.
- [14:51]
A
No notes. Killed it.
- [14:53]
B
Bar bars on that one. Oh, okay.
- [14:55]
A
Clip it. Put me in a clip once.
- [14:59]
B
I'll get clips to you this week. I'm done. Okay. And what was that? I think we're up to five now.
- [15:05]
A
I just did six.
- [15:06]
B
You did six. Okay. I'm trying to keep track so I can put it in the title.
- [15:09]
A
After you do seven, then I'll close.
- [15:11]
B
I'll do seven. Okay. All right. Oh, okay. That means I have one more here. All right. I think we, we took a lot of risks this year without being, without really leaning into the authenticity of what makes us good as marketers. I personally think this happened because of AI, because we tried to lean too hard to, on a tool that isn't human. And so all the marketing became not human. But I think our lack of authenticity keeps leading to just misfire after misfire. There are talented, incredibly skilled, super creative people in this industry who have literally turned off their ability to be creative because their boss wants them to use AI. And this is coming from somebody who owns an AI driven business. Like, I have a whole process that uses AI to break down the psychology of a whole bunch of different things. Shout out to stellar. But even I still tell people at the end of the day, I don't want your people creating the actual ad from AI. I would rather them use it as an analysis tool and understanding the underlying psychology and then take what they understand from the system and be creative. Go pay them to do what they were made to do, which is make co. Yeah, authenticity.
- [16:27]
A
I think it's, I, I, I think the hard part about AI is like, we gave every employee a new tool that they can manage and most employees have never managed anyone before. So I don't think a lot of Us are understanding the concept of like, hey, let's figure out what this guy is good at. Let's figure out what Mr. AI does well and doesn't do well. Make him do the things he does well and don't ask him to do the things he doesn't do well.
- [16:54]
B
Like, we just gave him everything. We were like, here, you get all of it. Same, accurate.
- [17:01]
A
All right, last one for me. None of US marketers predicted 145% tariff on China.
- [17:12]
B
That's a great one. That is accurate as hell, man.
- [17:17]
A
Listen, I think we don't take enough time before a new year, a new quarter, a new campaign, a new product launch. I don't think we take enough time beforehand to think what could go wrong.
- [17:29]
B
Yes. To audit. Yeah.
- [17:31]
A
And I think if we spent 15 minutes doing that, we build smarter businesses. Like, it's something I've worked into. My process for new copy is like, how could this be misconstrued, misunderstood? How could someone miss the point here? It's kind of like the final check before I edit it for the last time and it goes out. And I, I think we can do that in every, every area of our business. So I, I would challenge you before your next quarterly board meeting before the end of the. The, the year. Think about if something is going to stop us from hitting our goals it in 2026. What do you think it is? Your gut will tell you. Like, everyone's business has something that's like in the back of your mind that, like, I don't really want to think about that right now. Think about it for half an hour. Like, you will come up with a game plan that makes sense for it.
- [18:29]
B
Yeah, I think this goes for basically anything. Whether you're in marketing or ops, whether you're the founder. It doesn't matter who you are. Go through your systems. Usually, I mean, to Nate's point, it'd be good if you could do it once a quarter.
- [18:39]
A
Quarter.
- [18:39]
B
But if you can do it at least once a year and just say, if that failed, what would I do? If that failed, what would I do? If this fails, what would I do? Mostly just to put in fail safes. And that's just good business. And same for marketing. If this ad fails, what would I do? If this campaign fails, what would I do? Like, you cannot be running on this, this rat wheel of just like, we're just going because it will inevitably fail.
- [19:03]
A
We had a great example of this at OG maybe like two years ago, we were launching a new collection of watches that we were all pumped about. We were all, like, the most excited about this. We were like, this is going to crush for sure. For sure, for sure. I forced the team to sit down for a what could go wrong meeting. It was depressing.
- [19:23]
B
I was going to say, how did that go? Was everybody like, great?
- [19:28]
A
But me and the two founders had the same exact answer for what could go wrong.
- [19:34]
B
Oh, we were like.
- [19:36]
A
We were like, the price of this is off. We think price would be the issue here. If something was to go wrong here.
- [19:43]
B
What'D you do about it?
- [19:45]
A
We tried to get more efficient on cogs and then we made sure we did a better job of communicating the value of the products throughout content on launch.
- [19:55]
B
Perception, ma'. Am.
- [19:56]
A
Yes. The price couldn't change because of what it was. But we were like, all right, if price is the thing we're concerned about, then let's overcompensate for value. But again, that's something that, like, you know, we knew the products were going to be a winner, but we all had the same nagging thought in the back of our heads. Like, for this demographic, price is a little high.
- [20:18]
B
Yep.
- [20:19]
A
So we're not sure. And then we adjusted for it and it went well. But yeah, I think most often people know what the problems are going to be. They just like, kind of hope they don't exist and they're like, oh, yeah, let's go. I don't know.
- [20:35]
B
Everybody take all the. We did eight of them for you. Biggest things that we see in 2025 that were not so good that you can absolutely pick 2026. Go do this with your team especially. Go do like a doom and gloom. What could go wrong? Meeting just one.
- [20:48]
A
Just one.
- [20:48]
B
Before you get into like the new.
- [20:49]
A
Keep it a half hour.
- [20:51]
B
Yeah. Keep it short.
- [20:51]
A
See if you can do anything with what you learned, especially around, like, shared concerns.
- [20:57]
B
Oh, my God, I love this. Any. Any other hats things. That was great.
- [21:01]
A
No. Long live human intelligence. Thanks for listening to Brain Driven Brands. We'll see you next time.
- [21:11]
B
Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Appreciate you guys listening. If you want to follow me, I'm at Sarah Levinger. Anywhere you consume content. He is at Nate Lagos. If you like this show and if you like this episode, go ahead and like subscribe. Share with a friend. Drop us a review when you have have a minute. We would appreciate it. Otherwise, have a great week. We'll see you next time.