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- [00:00]
A
Welcome back to Brain Driven Brands. Sarah's mad because I care about how my mullet looks. Apparently, through 130 episodes, she hasn't figured out I'm deeply insecure. How are you doing today?
- [00:11]
B
So great. Somebody asked me the other day, I'm going to show you this just because it's going to crack you up. Somebody asked me why I put my headphones over my hair. They were like, sarah, your headphones are on top of your hair. You know that, right? I was like, oh, my God. No, this is why. I'll show you. Ready? This is like, this is why. Because I look stupid, right? If I don't. So everybody who needed to know that information, now you know. This is why Sarah does this. It's called I have poofy hair and I need it to not do.
- [00:40]
A
That's almost as bad as when I did emo hair for an episode. Do you remember that?
- [00:45]
B
You committed too. You did it for, like, the entire episode. I was like. And waiting for it to end, and it just kept going. And I was like, kept going. Nerd.
- [00:55]
A
Yeah, we'll do another one, though, soon, please.
- [00:57]
B
No.
- [00:57]
A
Let me know when we have an emotional topic coming up.
- [01:00]
B
Okay if I prep for next week? I didn't prep much for this week, but it's fine. We're doing great. D2C is D2C. And I've been on a lot of really interesting calls lately. I always try and keep people updated on, like, what I'm hearing. This week's been interesting. I'm hearing a lot more. People talk about, like, manuscript, and I haven't really. Have you played around with this yet?
- [01:22]
A
A little. Not too much.
- [01:24]
B
I haven't done much with it because I'm not in charge of a lot of accounts. I'm just in a lot of accounts. So.
- [01:28]
A
Interesting.
- [01:28]
B
I needed to find somebody who's, like, an authority on this and, like, pick their brain.
- [01:32]
A
I know Bart from Dad Gangs all over it.
- [01:35]
B
Oh, okay. Yeah. Pink Bart.
- [01:37]
A
I still haven't, like, this kind of goes for, like, all AI. I haven't found a thing that's like. That definitely makes us more money. I should spend more time doing it. Yeah.
- [01:46]
B
I can't justify it anymore. And we talked about this before the episode started. I'm finding it difficult for me to. To not be anxious these days because I think I'm task switching so much. And when I was describing to you, which now I'm gonna describe to all the listeners, I truly believe that it. It's more about the fact that I will open 18 different Claude tabs and try and like, work. You're shaking your head. I'll try and work in all of them at the same time. So I'll give it a task and then move to the next one while it's working and then move to the next one. Move to the next one. I keep doing that down the line until I've got like 50 different tabs of it.
- [02:23]
A
I think I love humans so much that they're like, is doing 18 tasks at once giving me a little bit of mental stress?
- [02:33]
B
Yes.
- [02:34]
A
Weird.
- [02:34]
B
Well, I want to see the data on this. Do you think it's worse?
- [02:37]
A
We should go take anti dopamine depressants for that. That'll probably help.
- [02:41]
B
Do you think it's worse, better or the same by gender? So like, are women more affected by this?
- [02:48]
A
I've heard men are better at like compartmentalizing things.
- [02:52]
B
Yes. And typically in the studies that I've read as well, men are better compartmentalizing. Meaning you guys don't seem to be as affected by like a lot of different things all being presented at once. Whereas with, with most women that I know, not all of them, but most women that I know are typically like, I need to do the dishes, I need to answer that email. He needs his shoes. The dog needs to go out, the trash needs to go out. Like we've got all these different things almost merging together at once.
- [03:18]
A
The, the way that I've heard it explained is like a man's brain is like a bunch of small buckets and a woman's brain is like one big bucket.
- [03:25]
B
One big bucket, yeah. So now I need to know, viewers, I would love your experience in this. You should comment. Cause I'm going to put this on Twitter comment below how deep your anxiety goes. On a scale of 1 to 10, how anxious are you right now when it comes to AI and task?
- [03:42]
A
And if you're anxious, go to adaptnaturals.com There's a product called Steady Spirit that
- [03:47]
B
you need to be on pro level marketing. Right.
- [03:50]
A
That's the first time I've like really plugged that hard because this product is like no joke. It's like really helped quiet my mind down. Steady spirit@adaptnaturals.com I mean, I would love
- [04:02]
B
to get a sample of this because. Yeah, Sarah, the anxious man. What are we talking about today? That's the question.
- [04:07]
A
That's your job.
- [04:10]
B
I have a study for you because we haven't done a science study in 2110 and I love these. And the audience Seems to love them. And I'm just like, let's talk about something. Anything other than AI the state of the industry and Sarah's. Exactly. So today, are you ready for this quiz? I should ask you that first.
- [04:27]
A
I'm ready. It's been a while. I don't think we've done a quiz in this calendar year.
- [04:31]
B
We haven't.
- [04:32]
A
So I'm excited.
- [04:34]
B
Okay. I'm gonna give you three chances, and you have to guess what the actual tactic is here. So the quiz prices that are displayed in this particular way can seem up to 26% more persuasive. So let me say that a different way. You can be up to 26% more persuasive if you write your price in this specific way. What way is it
- [05:06]
A
without a dollar sign?
- [05:08]
B
Oh, is that your guess? No. That's close, though.
- [05:13]
A
In words instead of numbers.
- [05:16]
B
Ooh, that's a really interesting guess, but no, I'd be. I would love to see that test. That'd be interesting.
- [05:22]
A
Then. Does it have to do with the. The order the price is presented in? Like, if you only show the price after some educational, persuasive copy.
- [05:34]
B
There is science on that. But it's not this one, though.
- [05:37]
A
All right, what is it?
- [05:38]
B
Okay, prices. According to this particular study, if you write your price in larger fonts, they seem cheaper and can be up to 26% more persuasive if the font size is bigger.
- [05:52]
A
I would almost think the opposite.
- [05:54]
B
I know. Okay, well, and I've seen a couple studies where it says you need to have your. Your. I guess you need to have your original price smaller.
- [06:02]
A
Let me explain the. The guesses because I think it's important.
- [06:06]
B
Okay. Yeah.
- [06:07]
A
At steakhouses.
- [06:09]
B
Yeah.
- [06:09]
A
Expensive ones. There's not dollar signs on the numbers.
- [06:13]
B
No, they don't have any says.
- [06:15]
A
Like, the ribeye is 91. And, like, I'm like, yeah, I love that rare please. And I don't think about the fact that I'm spending 100 bucks on a piece of meat. Same with whiskey. So that's why I thought that. And then what was it? Second thing, I guess. Oh, in words instead of numbers. I've done this a little bit.
- [06:37]
B
Oh, have you, like, test, like.
- [06:38]
A
Yeah, I haven't tested it, like, super scientifically. I've done it more in, like, email copy and, like, the actual captions within ads where I'll type out, you know, 50 bucks, 150 bucks. And, like, it seems to do okay. But again, it hasn't been a super scientific thing.
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B
Oh, I.
- [07:00]
A
So you're saying bigger.
- [07:02]
B
Yes. Bigger font.
- [07:03]
A
You know, I've tested font size on, like, website copy across different. Across four or five different brands. Now, I've never seen a smaller font size win any kind of split test.
- [07:14]
B
Yes. Now that I'm thinking about this, I'm just like, every time I've ever done any sort of price test, anything bigger fonts seem to do better. And I think there's a couple different, like, psychological reasons why this works, but I think the majority of it just has to do with the fact that people see it, like, it's clearer.
- [07:31]
A
Yeah.
- [07:31]
B
And they don't have. It doesn't seem like we're just skipping over the price.
- [07:34]
A
Yeah.
- [07:34]
B
So that's what this study was saying was just, like, people assume that the brand must be confident in the message just to make it that prominent. So now I'm starting to think, oh, that's interesting. What else can we make big as? Like, we're so confident in this particular claim that we're just going to make it the biggest piece on the page.
- [07:53]
A
Do you think part of it is, like, if the price is small, does it look like we're trying to hide it?
- [07:58]
B
Yes.
- [07:58]
A
That's like, if it's big, we are proud of it. And if we're proud of what the price is, then it must match the quality of whatever they're about to buy.
- [08:07]
B
100%, I. I think. And this. I. It's really interesting when I started to look at some landing pages this week and try and see, like, how many people are actually doing this. Every single price is like, this big.
- [08:16]
A
Yeah.
- [08:18]
B
Tiny. And I'm like, ooh, okay, this might be a really interesting intelligence test. We just make it bigger.
- [08:25]
A
You know, it's interesting too. Like, I, I don't, like, I try to never compete on price, like, in any kind of marketing, but talking about that supplement that is great for stress in. In sleep, it's criminal that I haven't run an ad yet that's like, do you want to sleep better for $54 a month?
- [08:48]
B
Yeah. Like, because for what it does, that's cheap.
- [08:54]
A
Yeah. Like, for the, for the impact it's. It's had on me. And hundreds of customers are obsessed with it. Like, yeah, yeah. 54 or 59 bucks a month is a steal for what you're getting.
- [09:06]
B
Yeah. Okay.
- [09:07]
A
Peace of mind. 59 bucks for peace of mind.
- [09:09]
B
Total steal. I will take, like, I need that in my life right now. If you notice, though, the biggest brand, the industry, Walmart in particular, already does this. Like, if you go to Walmart, all of their prices are freaking yellow and massive. Like, they don't just stick them on the tag or, like, put them in a teeny, tiny spot above the rack. It's like the biggest sign on every single thing they're selling. Typically the biggest.
- [09:33]
A
Do you know what type of products this was priced on? Like, I wonder, like, does this work for luxury, too? Or is this only for things kind of like in the left half of the bell curve on. On price?
- [09:45]
B
So this was a part of four experiments, and it just says prices. It doesn't say what it. Okay, so it said when the price was written at a larger font, the price of a lamp was considered 9.3% cheaper, and a bottle of wine was 15% cheaper is how people considered it. So they were. I mean, there's a fitness tracker they did, a vacuum cleaner, sunscreen. Yeah. So they did, like, a bunch of different kind of products.
- [10:07]
A
Interesting. I wonder if this would have worked on, like, a $350 watch.
- [10:12]
B
Ooh, that would have been interesting. Well, now I'm going down a rabbit hole. I'm like, does Amazon do this well?
- [10:18]
A
And then I can tell you, like, I. I test drove a car yesterday.
- [10:23]
B
Yeah.
- [10:24]
A
And the price was the tiniest thing on the little window thing.
- [10:27]
B
Like, I wonder if it doesn't work everywhere. So this is a shampoo brand that I used to buy. Their price is not the biggest compared to everything else, but it is larger than all of the rest of the font on here.
- [10:40]
A
Yes, it is.
- [10:42]
B
You think?
- [10:42]
A
I would bet this works best on prices less than 100 bucks.
- [10:49]
B
Oh, yeah, you're probably right. Honestly.
- [10:53]
A
Because I can tell you, like, I wouldn't have test drove that car yesterday if this price was printed big before I got in the driver's seat.
- [11:02]
B
Amazing. Oh, my God. Yeah. Well, that's. Okay. So I need to, like, do some more deep research in this because, I mean, it seems like they tried on a couple different products, but it doesn't say whether it was in a digital ecosystem.
- [11:12]
A
Yeah. And again, for most of us in econ, like, this is relevant because we're not selling. Yeah, 20, 26 Range Rovers.
- [11:19]
B
Yeah, exactly.
- [11:20]
A
So we're good.
- [11:22]
B
Interesting.
- [11:23]
A
That's really interesting. And, like, again, it's something that, like, I've never been heavy on price because I feel like I want to win you over with, like, the quality and the value of the product rather than the price. But again, like, I'm not. Well, I'm still not competing on price like this. Stress and sleep supplement that. That we have is much more expensive than melatonin.
- [11:44]
B
Yes.
- [11:45]
A
I'm still not trying to be the cheapest thing out there. I think we can stack all of our benefits of a quieter mind, restful sleep, sharper focus for 60 bucks a day, like, or, I'm sorry, 60 bucks a month. Anchored to that, I think looks like a great deal.
- [12:05]
B
Yes, yes, yes. Well, this is the reason why I bring this up is because, like, pricing and price testing is still important. Even in 2026. Everybody, I think, kind of stopped thinking about it and stopped doing it because,
- [12:16]
A
AI, we're price testing still.
- [12:19]
B
Oh, you are? I've only. I've only talked to a few brands this year that are, like, actively doing it year round. I. I've heard some people say, oh, yeah, we tested it like, last June.
- [12:29]
A
That's how most people test prices. Like, they test them once and they're like, we're probably good for the next four years. And it's like, no, no, no, that's not what we should be doing.
- [12:36]
B
I'm like, you should test it all the time.
- [12:38]
A
So we're actually in a cadence where we just flip flop testing content and prices constantly. So, like, we test content until we get a win, and when we get a win on content, that means, like, hey, we did a better job describing the value of it. We did a better job being more persuasive from the ad to the lp. Once we get that win, I immediately try to go test a higher price to be like, cool. Are we good enough at it now that I can charge an extra five bucks?
- [13:06]
B
Okay, can you do me a favor on the next one, then when you run that next test, will you make that font like, twice as big?
- [13:11]
A
Yeah.
- [13:12]
B
And see what happens? See what happens to your conversion rate and your. Your aov.
- [13:16]
A
Yeah.
- [13:17]
B
Okay. I can't wait to see what happens with this, because now I'm like, well,
- [13:21]
A
I'm writing our creative briefs for next week after this pod, and I'm just gonna put on, like, hey, we're showing prices and ads this week. So, yes, watch out.
- [13:31]
B
Prices and ads. And big. And this is interesting because again, D2C wants to hide our prices because we're, like, kind of embarrassed that we're so expensive. I'm like, maybe you shouldn't. Maybe
- [13:43]
A
the. The more I think about it is like, as long as we are running Facebook ads and sending people to a Shopify store, we're not competing for the bottom 20% of shoppers because we're not in Walmart. We're not, you know, advertising on Amazon. Well, we are, but, like, not in this situation. Like, we are not going after someone who's going to go buy the cheapest melatonin out there. That's not who our market is.
- [14:11]
B
Yep.
- [14:12]
A
So to our market, who has enough money where 60 bucks a month is not an issue. I should be shouting from the rooftops that, like, hey, we can fix this thing that is literally keeping you up at night and making you toss and turn just for two bucks a day.
- [14:27]
B
Yes. Which is less than a cup of coffee. People like, you can't even get that at a gas station nowadays. $2 coffee.
- [14:35]
A
There used to be an infomercial Marshall, about hot tubs that showed like quarters, like floating down in water and stacking up to show that like it was, it was like three bucks a day or something.
- [14:49]
B
Yes.
- [14:50]
A
And you could release a hot tub. I don't even know what it was. But, like, that's kind of the example
- [14:55]
B
of that is fan frickin tastic.
- [14:58]
A
And that was a product that was expensive.
- [15:00]
B
Yeah.
- [15:01]
A
But because they broke the price down into like daily increments.
- [15:05]
B
Yeah.
- [15:05]
A
They shouted that as loud as they could. Like, look how good of a value this is on a per day price basis.
- [15:11]
B
Yeah. This is now kind of leading me into this tangent a little bit, but it's still related. I think your category psychology really does have a giant effect on whether or not your price will be accepted easily, but it doesn't mean that you can't price it that way. So obviously we have like luxury cars, Right. Maserati, Jaguar, whatever. These are like hundreds of thousands of dollars. It does the exact same thing that a Toyota Corolla does. It drives.
- [15:37]
A
Yeah.
- [15:38]
B
However, the brain behind it, the name behind it, the experience of it, the quality of the materials, all of this comes into play when we start to judge whether or not that price is correct. So for your products, you said it was $60, so it was like three bucks a day, something like that.
- [15:52]
A
Yep.
- [15:52]
B
Are you the highest in your industry or at the top end?
- [15:56]
A
Depends. The good thing is, like, no one else does. The formula that we have, like, it's a, it's a truly unique thing. Okay, so we kind of like don't have direct comps. Like, the comp is melatonin, which is super cheap, or like prescription ambient or something.
- [16:13]
B
Do you think your category psychology affects your price?
- [16:16]
A
Yeah, 100%.
- [16:18]
B
Oh, okay. How would you run against that then? How. What would you put in place?
- [16:22]
A
Well, this is why, like, I'm. I'm on a Mission to increase prices. Because the supplement industry as we've seen the last couple weeks on Twitter is full of a bunch of bs. Right. Is full of a bunch of snake oil. And consumers know that. We saw that when we did cim that like the biggest issue is that nobody trusts us.
- [16:45]
B
Yeah.
- [16:46]
A
And not just us, but trust any supplement brand out there. So to me, like I think we can use relatively premium prices as a way to validate our quality and our like effectiveness because we, you know, have a founder who's been in the functional medicine game for 15 years. The products are all, you know, made with the highest quality ingredients that are clinically studied and proven to help with the things we are selling them for. So yeah, we should be way more expensive then a generic CBS thing.
- [17:23]
B
And now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, my brain is going in a million different directions. But like this perception management thing when it comes to price really does have to do with what it's surrounded by. What is the price surrounded by. So I'd be interested to see how these ads run if you're gonna put prices on it. Because I'm like, be proud, be proud that you're the most expensive in the industry because clearly you do something better than everybody else. But the other thing I was thinking of too is there's, there's different industries where perception is just built into the actual category. And this is the reason why I'm going down this category roll. Because if you think about art, sometimes people will literally just like staple a teddy bear.
- [18:00]
A
Yeah. And be like, it's $6 million.
- [18:02]
B
Yeah. There's like $6 million for this. And people are like, yes, put me in that bucket. But the interesting part is, is like the only thing that's really causing that is the fact that it's at a high end gallery that typically shows other things that are in that price category. So this is why I'm like, is there a way that you can basically perception your way into higher pricing? And I think there is.
- [18:22]
A
Well, we've talked a lot about this. It's been a while since I've talked about this on my pod, but I talked about like purposeful price anchors.
- [18:32]
B
Yeah.
- [18:33]
A
And I think that if we don't anchor our prices for our customers, they will anchor it to the last thing they bought on Amazon.
- [18:40]
B
Yes.
- [18:40]
A
And like we don't want to get into that competition at all. So I think it's super important and we don't do it enough to be like, hey, no, this is our price here's. Why. Here's what we're comparing it to. We're comparing 60 bucks a month to another night where you're laying in bed awake thinking about work at 3:00am yeah, like, that's what I want to anchor that price to.
- [19:04]
B
My other question is, and now I'm just like, proposing this as a devil's advocate, do you think people are listening to that anchor, or do you think they are saying, oh, that's marketing, and I'm really anchoring to every other supplement brand that I can think of right now.
- [19:18]
A
Maybe. But I think it's worth a shot.
- [19:20]
B
Both.
- [19:21]
A
Because if you don't, they're going to default to anchoring to the cheapest thing
- [19:25]
B
they just bought, which I would agree. So now I'm kind of. And the only reason I'm bringing this up is for one of the brands that I consult for. They are in, like, the meat snacks industry. And so they're having a hard time with it because they're like organs. People just automatically lump us in with organs, and it's difficult to get out of that because that's just what they think of us as. And I was like, why don't you just come up with your own own name? Just take yourself out of organs, Just come up with a proprietary name for organ and then run with that. You don't have to stay in the category that you are in, but you also have to work with what terms are currently available and come up with something that actually makes a lot of logical sense for what you're providing. So, so many different ways to kind of, like, look at pricing and perception. But I like this. This test that you're going to run, because this way really interesting.
- [20:09]
A
Just see, I'm super excited. Yeah, I'm gonna lean back into, like, price.
- [20:15]
B
Yes.
- [20:16]
A
Because again, like, our stuff is super fairly priced. The benefits are real. Our reviews and LTVs are insane. Like, people. People love our stuff.
- [20:25]
B
Yep. Yep.
- [20:26]
A
And like, that's probably the. The best ad is like, hey, we have tens of thousands of subscribers that are willing to pay this every single.
- [20:33]
B
Yeah.
- [20:34]
A
Month. Again and again. Again four years. Because they think the benefit is worth more than the dollars.
- [20:40]
B
So good. Be proud of your price.
- [20:43]
A
I don't know if my new employees listen to our podcasts or not, but, guys, hurry up. Get this cooking. Okay?
- [20:50]
B
Go get those tests. That's what I had for today.
- [20:55]
A
That's a good episode.
- [20:56]
B
Yeah.
- [20:57]
A
Look at us. We're back podcasting. We're looking at studies. I'm getting free consulting from Sarah, the first to help us make more money. Brain Driven Brands is back. Let's go.
- [21:08]
B
Thank you so much for joining us on the show today. Appreciate you guys listening. If you want to follow me, I'm Sarah Levenger. Anywhere you consume content, he is aytelegos. If you like this show and if you like this episode, go ahead and like subscribe. Share with a friend. Drop us a review when you have a minute. We would appreciate it. Otherwise, have a great week. We'll see you next time.