
In this episode, we’re putting cohost Nate on trial—brand trial, that is. Sarah, Nate, and Tether Insight’s new AI research intern, DEX play The Tattoo Test, a brutal brand-building game show where each level challenges Nate to prove his brand...
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Nate Legos
Foreign.
Sarah Levinger
Welcome back to Brain Driven Brands. I am Sarah Levinger, your host. This is Nate, your co host. We are hosts together. This is the weirdest day I've ever had in my life. This is the weirdest couple weeks I've ever had in my life. Not a big deal, though, because we just roll with it at this point in my life. I'm 36. I'm like, it's probably gonna be fine.
Nate Legos
Old. Yeah.
Sarah Levinger
You know, maybe that's a good, good thing. Maybe that's naive of me. We'll find out.
Nate Legos
Do you know what's crazy? When's your birthday?
Sarah Levinger
October 5th.
Nate Legos
Okay, so I just had mine. So I'm 29 now, and, like, because we're in between our birthdays the same year, this is, like, the closest in age we'll ever be.
Sarah Levinger
Right?
Nate Legos
And it's still such a big gap.
Sarah Levinger
That's crazy. Okay. It's not that big of a gap.
Nate Legos
So young.
Sarah Levinger
Okay, see? Okay, what. Your birth. What's the date, like, the day of your birthday?
Nate Legos
March 8th, 1996.
Sarah Levinger
You're a. March 8th. That's your. Okay, so you're a Pisces. All right, that makes.
Nate Legos
All right.
Sarah Levinger
I was.
Nate Legos
You're one of those.
Sarah Levinger
I wondered why we got along so well. No, I. I am not currently a. What do they call a Zodiac. Zodiac girly. There's, like, zodiac girlies out there. I'm not a Zodiac girly. However, I did look this up when my kids were, like, little, because I was like, why in the hell is my youngest so ridiculously stubborn? And so I was like, give anybody just give me something. And. And then I ran across an article, was like, oh, he's a Taurus, and Tauruses are, like, super stubborn. And I was like, sure. We are going to run the tattoo test today. Nate is going to play a tattoo test game. This game is specifically hosted by Dex today. This will be really interesting. So you get to.
Nate Legos
Oh, your little dino.
Sarah Levinger
Yeah, you get to be my dinosaur today. So we're gonna do. We're gonna do tattoo tests with Dex. The mission is to build a brand so iconic, someone would willingly tattoo it on their body.
Nate Legos
Nice.
Sarah Levinger
So I want to see if somebody would willingly tattoo original grain on their body. So, okay. Yep. Dex is going to run you through a quiz to see if people. If you would pass the tattoo test. Okay, here we go. So level one. I'm going to read this, and then we'll. We'll talk to him so that you can hear what he has to say. But level one is choose an enemy. We're going to pick a fight. Right. So real cult brands, according to the tattoo test, have something they stand against, which is something we're currently working on for you. So your question that you need to answer within 30 seconds, really fast off the top of your head, is what belief, industry, norm, or behavior does your brand exist to destroy?
Nate Legos
Soulless, conforming, fast fashion.
Sarah Levinger
Solace. Conforming, fast fashion. Okay, all right, all right. Let me. We'll tell. We'll tell. Solace, conforming, fast fashion. Okay, here we go.
Dex
All right, Nate. Fighting. Soulless, conforming, fast fashion. Not bad. That's a clear enemy. I'll give you a solid 8 out of 10. You've got a strong stance. Good start.
Nate Legos
Thanks, Dex. He's British, by the way.
Sarah Levinger
He's British. He's a British dinosaur. I freaking love him. Okay, so at that point, what does he give you? Solid A. So your grade is an A. So he's going to tell you at the end what your final full grade is. So here we go. Next question.
Dex
Okay. Create a ritual. Rituals turn customers into believers. Describe a repeatable behavior your customers can do that connects deeply with your brand. What's the ritual? Your move, Nate.
Sarah Levinger
What do you think it is?
Nate Legos
Making drinks for a friend or with a friend?
Sarah Levinger
Making drinks?
Nate Legos
Yeah.
Sarah Levinger
So your ritual is making drinks with the watch?
Nate Legos
Well, he said, just describe a ritual connected to the brand.
Sarah Levinger
That's connected to the brand. All right. Is that where you really want to go?
Nate Legos
I would say making cocktails to share with friends.
Sarah Levinger
Okay, so Dex is looking for a specific ritual that can turn customers into believers. So we're. Yeah, we're looking for a repeatable behavior that your customers do that connects deeply with your brand. I would have chosen something different, but Nate said. Nate said. Cocktail hour.
Nate Legos
You can make drinks, like, 15 times a night.
Sarah Levinger
Okay, here we go. Ready?
Dex
Cocktail hours with friends. Social, repeatable, and fun. I like it. That's a solid 7 out of 10. It's a great ritual, but let's see if we can push the brand connection even further on to level three.
Sarah Levinger
All right, so Jack's like that one. I thought for sure that he wasn't going to like that.
Nate Legos
What were you going to say?
Sarah Levinger
I think your repeatable ritual has to do with the actual product. So I was going to say putting on a watch every morning. This is a part of your, like, doning an experience as, like, a brand. Like, this is kind of important. Your brand is like.
Nate Legos
I took it the lifestyle route.
Sarah Levinger
That's fine. That's right. He liked It. All right. Which I've talked to Dex quite a lot this week, so that's actually good. He's very snarky. He's kind of mean to me, so I'm glad he's nice.
Nate Legos
That makes sense. So it's your podcast co host.
Dex
Excellent. Level three. Now it's time to craft the ultimate one liner. Give me a tagline that captures your brand's core belief. Something people might actually get inked. Lay it on me, Nate.
Sarah Levinger
Oh, okay. A one liner that some. Somebody might actually get inked.
Nate Legos
I don't think our tagline would get inked.
Sarah Levinger
Oh, okay. Gotta shorten it. You gotta condense it. What do you think? This is hard. This. This level in particular is hard. Like, yeah, 100.
Nate Legos
We'd say that our watches are built for living.
Sarah Levinger
Watches built for living?
Nate Legos
Yeah.
Sarah Levinger
Somebody's gonna get tattooed on their body. Watches built for living? I mean, no, but, like, okay, think Harley Davidson, right? Like, they have a logo that gets tattooed on there, typically with, like, an I love mom type of thing. What. What would the OG look? I don't know.
Nate Legos
Do you think, like, time well spent is better?
Sarah Levinger
Time well spent is not bad. Right? That's. I mean, that's closer to, I think, what the core is. Yeah. Something about that soul piece of your brand.
Nate Legos
This one's hard. I mean, the, like, most meaningful copy is just way too long. It's the, like.
Sarah Levinger
I know.
Nate Legos
Built for carving your own path, for building yourself a life worth remembering.
Sarah Levinger
Okay. I love this. How about we go with Carv? Your own path.
Nate Legos
Carve your own path because that's.
Sarah Levinger
That's a very tattooable thing that you got. Okay. And this. This, I think, is a great exercise for any brand to do with yourself. Like, if you can't describe in one clip what you actually sell emotionally, that's. That's probably a problem. Nate is. Has a bunch of them is the thing. You have, like, a lot of really iconic crazy. Yeah. So you have to, like, carve your own path.
Nate Legos
Be original. Go against the grain.
Sarah Levinger
Go against the grain or carve your own path.
Nate Legos
Carve your own path.
Sarah Levinger
Carry your path. Okay, here we go.
Dex
Carve your own path. Nice. It's bold, memorable, and it speaks to individual.
Sarah Levinger
Oh, I stopped it. He's super nice to you. Okay. He says that he gave you an 8 out of 10.
Nate Legos
Nice killing.
Sarah Levinger
8 out of 10. This is ridiculous. All right. When I did this, he, like, trashed me. He was just like, absolutely.
Nate Legos
You don't run marketing at a brand.
Sarah Levinger
So, you know, I guess so. Ready for level four, let's do level four.
Dex
Level four. Turn product into symbol. Time. To make your product unmistakable. Describe how your product can become a symbol, something recognizable without even needing a logo. What's the plan, Nate?
Sarah Levinger
How can your product become a symbol?
Nate Legos
That's a hard question, Dex.
Sarah Levinger
Okay, so describe how your product can become a symbol, something recognizable without even needing a logo. Great example of this. I can. I can give you a little bit of help with this. Coca Cola in the 20s, I think it was, revamped their bottles because they used to look like medical bottles. Yes. To this, like, curvy, shapey thing now, because they really wanted this bottle that could be found in the dark. Right. Like, if anybody touched it, they would know it's Coke bottle. That's what I think he's asking.
Nate Legos
Jack Daniels, too, has a iconic square bottle.
Sarah Levinger
So what do we think?
Nate Legos
I don't know how we can do that.
Sarah Levinger
Well, I don't know. If your brand's iconic, then I don't know if you're gonna make it.
Nate Legos
What's his question?
Sarah Levinger
Okay, so he wants to know, describe how your product can become a symbol, something recognizable without even needing a logo. Turn your product into a symbol.
Nate Legos
No.
Sarah Levinger
How does your product signal identity? It's a watch, so that kind of narrows it down.
Nate Legos
Yeah, but, like, what do you do? Wrap the watch around a whiskey barrel?
Sarah Levinger
Like, I don't know, because it's.
Nate Legos
Everything's hard with watches, because if we're trying to show the character.
Sarah Levinger
Yeah.
Nate Legos
You got to be like. And the watch is just, like, on its wrist.
Sarah Levinger
Yours, I think, is not the actual watch or the product or the box. It's the materials. So it would be an iconic piece of wood.
Nate Legos
Right, than a whiskey barrel. Yeah.
Sarah Levinger
Okay. All right, so we'll do whiskey barrel. All right.
Dex
Whiskey barrels. That's unique and memorable. It definitely stands out and tells a story. I'd give that a strong 9 out of 10. Great choice.
Nate Legos
Let's go.
Sarah Levinger
This is ridiculous. He is giving the. The nicest answers ever. When I ran this, he literally gave me, like, a 2 out of 10. He was like, nope, nope, nope. But I. I was also using a. A specific brand as an example.
Nate Legos
This is why they pay me the big bucks there, because I can win AI marketing.
Sarah Levinger
You can win AI games. I feel bad. Like, this game is like, yup, yup, yup. Nate's just really good at it.
Nate Legos
I do think it's a good exercise for people to do. Even if you're not as good at this as. As I am.
Sarah Levinger
The tattoo Test. Now I need to go do it on some other brands. Let's do, like, a tattoo test on the biggest brands. Okay, last one.
Dex
Will anyone tattoo your brand? This is it. The ultimate test. Would your most loyal customer be proud to get this brand tattooed on them?
Sarah Levinger
Why?
Dex
Oh, why not?
Sarah Levinger
Okay, so he. Now he just wants to know, like, do you think anybody would tattoo this? Would somebody tattoo original grain on their body? According to the marketing professional, we original grade.
Nate Legos
We had an employee volunteer last year.
Sarah Levinger
You did?
Nate Legos
We did.
Sarah Levinger
Okay. Why? They were just like, I love this brand. Yeah, you could. A generative AI That. Yeah, you could. Definitely could. All right, so what would you say? Yes, Definitive. They would. Or, like, maybe I haven't seen one.
Nate Legos
We've been in business for 12 years, so.
Sarah Levinger
Oh, okay, let's. All right, let's ask.
Nate Legos
I'd say no, but I feel like he's immediately gonna be like, oh, if you don't believe it, then, hell no.
Sarah Levinger
He might. Okay, well, no, we're gonna tell the truth, and we're gonna see what he says. Here we go. Here we go.
Dex
Honest answer. It sounds like you're still building that level of die hard loyalty. I'll give that a six out of ten. There's room to grow. Final tally. 38 out of 50. Not bad at all. Ready for a recap or should we dive into the bonus round?
Nate Legos
Oh, bonus round.
Sarah Levinger
Bonus round. How did I not know about this? Interesting. See, this is why I love trading GPTs, because I'm like, I don't know what he's gonna do. Whatever.
Nate Legos
Bonus round.
Sarah Levinger
Just invented a bonus round. All right, 38 out of 50. How do you feel about that?
Nate Legos
I mean, that's not a great score, right?
Sarah Levinger
38 out of 50, though. Whatever. So, all right, so now you feel bad about it. I was trying to make him feel better, but okay. Okay, interesting. So what do you feel that you need to do? I love this tattoo test because it forces you, as the actual, like, C suite level marketer, to understand am I actually building what I think I'm building especially for storied brands like yours?
Nate Legos
Well, for longevity, I think I'd immediately change our logo.
Sarah Levinger
I've actually been thinking about this, but I didn't want to tell you guys that.
Nate Legos
Okay.
Sarah Levinger
Because, like, I think it'd be fascinating.
Nate Legos
Our logo is the two trees because we started out, like, very nature focused.
Sarah Levinger
Okay, interesting.
Nate Legos
Like, all of the wood was, like, just exotic hardwoods. We do the whole tree planting thing. So, like, that was at the very core of our brand for a long Time in the last four years, as we've, like, grown a ton, it's pretty much all been in the whiskey category.
Sarah Levinger
Yeah.
Nate Legos
And, like, we still do the tree planting thing and all of our sustainability things, but, like, the identity has gotten a little away from nature and gotten more into whiskey.
Sarah Levinger
Yep, yep, yep. I think I would be careful not to change too much of the brand, but I would. I would probably alter the trees, keep the font of the actual original grain, like text, but change the trees to something else. Because you guys are fighting with these kind of, like, big legacy brands now. You've kind of elevated so much.
Nate Legos
Yeah.
Sarah Levinger
But now you're going to be fighting in the big, big league. And to do that, it needs to be a little bit more iconic. But we could. I mean, we might do a whole episode on just how to create iconic logos, because that's, like, a complicated stuff. Do you want to do the bonus round?
Nate Legos
Let's do the bonus round.
Sarah Levinger
Okay, here we go.
Dex
So, okay, bonus round. Tattoo or trash? Rapid fire time. I'll name a brand, and you have three seconds to say whether it's tattoo or trash, then a quick why. Here we go. Liquid death tattoo or trash? Your call, Nate.
Nate Legos
Trash.
Dex
Oof. Bold take. Let's keep it rolling. Gymshark tattoo or trash?
Nate Legos
Trash.
Dex
Got it. Next up, Glossier tattoo or trash?
Nate Legos
Trash.
Dex
Not holding back, I see. All right, last one. Notion tattoo or trash?
Nate Legos
Trash.
Sarah Levinger
No, he says trash.
Nate Legos
Go find me a notion tattoo. Like, come on.
Dex
All right. Nate's pretty tough on these.
Nate Legos
Yeah.
Dex
Great job on the bonus round. Your tattoo worthiness rating is complete. Any thoughts or final words on Nate's performance?
Sarah Levinger
I mean, I think that's probably interesting. Okay, so now. And we're going to have to do a whole other episode. Why you think Liquid Death, gymshark, Glossier, and Notion are all trash? I'm like, okay, so they're great news to me. Dang.
Nate Legos
Like, Liquid Death, specifically is a great brand.
Sarah Levinger
Yeah.
Nate Legos
But I don't think water occupies that kind of power over people. Whereas, like, I know a bunch of people who have Jack Daniels tattoos.
Sarah Levinger
But you don't think people have Liquid Death tattoos?
Nate Legos
No, I don't.
Unknown
Liquid Death broke through on Instagram. It became almost like a cultural movement to the point of people, like, tattooing Liquid Death on their face and their neck and their heads. And, like, they became huge brand ambassadors through social.
Nate Legos
And if. And if there's people who have them, I don't want to be friends with them.
Sarah Levinger
Oh, they do. There's lots and lots of. Now of Course, this is Google. Like, I don't know if these are real tattoos. This could be AI we have no idea. But in general, I would say liquid. I. I'm on the opposite side. Liquid Death, I think, is one of the most iconic brands I've seen in a long time. I think the other ones in here.
Nate Legos
I. I think it's a great brand, but, like.
Sarah Levinger
Yeah.
Nate Legos
How much does it mean to you?
Sarah Levinger
Right.
Nate Legos
Like, I'm very loyal to my toothpaste, but, like, it's not that big. A big part of my day or my life, you know?
Sarah Levinger
Yeah, yeah, that's very true. I like this game. I think it was interesting to figure out, like, how. Where do you sit on, like, the iconic brand?
Nate Legos
Yeah.
Sarah Levinger
Kind of a standpoint because. And it definitely gets you to think fast, like, how the. The ritual was hard, but the. What was it? The one liner and the symbolism. That one, I think in particular is one piece that's, like, that might be.
Nate Legos
Missing for OG we did create ads this week with the Carver, their own path headline. And even just looking at them, they feel better.
Sarah Levinger
Do they?
Nate Legos
Yeah, they feel really, really good. I'm launching that master, so I'm so excited.
Sarah Levinger
I'll let you know. All right. All right. Where can people find you if they want to follow you?
Nate Legos
Hold on. Is Dex gonna tell me how he did or.
Sarah Levinger
No, he already did. He gave you a score of 30. 38 out of 50.
Nate Legos
Oh, okay. That's it.
Sarah Levinger
That was it. That was the. The whole game. I. I think I want to ask him if he can revamp this game and we can do a little bit deeper.
Nate Legos
Yeah. Because, yeah, it is a good exercise. Like, yeah, if you're just starting a brand or maybe you've been around for a while and, like, are trying to evoke more meaning. Like, what would it take? What would you have to do for your brand for someone to tattoo it?
Sarah Levinger
Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, at this point, you want that cult leader status. You have to have it to be able to compete in these, especially in this particular day and age. So. Yeah, but forming a religion around what you do, the way Jack Daniels did it. O. That's okay.
Nate Legos
Where can people find you at Nate Legos? On Twitter? You can listen to the tactical and practical podcast, and that's pretty much it. That's the only place I want.
Sarah Levinger
Don't come after Nate. Okay. If you want to follow me, I'm at Sarah Levinger. Everywhere you consume content, come check out tetherinsights.IO. we are currently rolling through a bunch of consumer insights over there so you can scale your brand specifically to cut costs because it's about to get real, real, real here in D.C. in half a second. More you know about your customers, the faster you grow because your brand is what it eats. So please come check it out. HeatherInsights IO what do you think of that?
Nate Legos
Your brand is a good ad read.
Sarah Levinger
Thank you.
Nate Legos
That sold me. You know what?
Sarah Levinger
We're signing up. You already did.
Nate Legos
I feel like for the listener, that's going to do a bit. No, but we did. I'm very excited. I think we have our onboarding call on Wednesday, so.
Sarah Levinger
Oh, yeah. Iconic people. Your brand is what it eats. So feed it better. Better data. Let's do it. Thanks for coming. Good job. Let's do it.
Unknown
Brain Driven Brands is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast network and is presented by Tether Insights. For more information go to tetherinsights IO.
Podcast Summary: Brain Driven Brands - "The Tattoo Test: Can Nate Build a Brand Worth Bleeding For?"
Podcast Information:
In this episode of Brain Driven Brands, host Sarah Levinger, along with co-host Nate Legos, delves into the intriguing concept of the "Tattoo Test"—a branding exercise designed to evaluate whether a brand is iconic enough that customers would be willing to immortalize it on their bodies. The test is facilitated by Dex, a British dinosaur character who serves as the episode’s branding expert.
Timestamp: [02:34]
The first level challenges Nate to identify a clear adversary that the brand stands against, a crucial step in defining a brand's unique position in the market.
Key Insight: Defining a strong adversary helps in carving out a distinct brand identity, making the brand more relatable and compelling to its target audience.
Timestamp: [03:12]
The second level focuses on establishing a repeatable behavior that connects deeply with the brand, transforming customers into loyal believers.
Key Insight: Rituals play a significant role in brand loyalty by fostering community and consistent engagement with the brand.
Timestamp: [04:19]
This level challenges Nate to develop a succinct tagline that encapsulates the brand's core belief, something memorable enough that customers might consider getting it tattooed.
Initial Tagline Attempts:
Final Tagline: "Carve your own path."
Dex's Evaluation: "Carve your own path. Nice. It's bold, memorable, and it speaks to individual. I gave you an 8 out of 10."
Key Insight: A powerful tagline should resonate emotionally with the audience, encapsulating the brand’s essence in a memorable and actionable phrase.
Timestamp: [07:07]
The fourth level assesses how the product can become a universally recognizable symbol without relying on a logo.
Key Insight: Creating a distinctive product feature or association can elevate the brand to iconic status, making it instantly recognizable and symbolically significant.
Timestamp: [09:02]
The final assessment asks whether the most loyal customers would proudly tattoo the brand on their bodies.
Key Insight: Achieving a high degree of brand loyalty involves more than just strong visuals and taglines; it requires deep emotional connections and consistent brand experiences that resonate on a personal level.
Timestamp: [12:50]
In a fun twist, Dex introduces a rapid-fire segment where Nate must quickly classify various brands as "Tattoo" or "Trash."
Discussion: While Nate is tough on these brands, Sarah contemplates the authenticity and cultural impact these brands have, highlighting the subjective nature of branding perceptions.
Timestamp: [11:05]
Following the Tattoo Test, Sarah and Nate reflect on their scores and discuss potential strategies to enhance their brand's iconic status.
Key Insight: Continuous evaluation and adaptation of branding elements are essential to maintain relevance and foster deeper connections with the audience.
Timestamp: [16:03]
The episode wraps up with Sarah and Nate emphasizing the importance of exercises like the Tattoo Test in understanding and strengthening a brand’s emotional and symbolic resonance with its audience.
Final Quote:
Notable Quotes:
Sarah Levinger [00:25]: "This is the weirdest day I've ever had in my life. This is the weirdest couple weeks I've ever had in my life. Not a big deal, though, because we just roll with it at this point in my life."
Dex [02:58]: "All right, Nate. Fighting soulless, conforming, fast fashion. Not bad. That's a clear enemy. I'll give you a solid 8 out of 10."
Nate Legos [05:20]: "Build for carving your own path, for building yourself a life worth remembering."
Sarah Levinger [06:40]: "Carve your own path. That's a very tattooable thing that you got."
Dex [09:44]: "Honest answer. It sounds like you're still building that level of die-hard loyalty. I'll give you a six out of ten. There's room to grow."
Sarah Levinger [12:52]: "I think it was interesting to figure out, like, how. Where do you sit on, like, the iconic brand?"
"The Tattoo Test: Can Nate Build a Brand Worth Bleeding For?" offers valuable insights into the nuances of brand building and the psychological underpinnings that contribute to creating an iconic brand. Through engaging dialogue and practical exercises, Sarah and Nate illustrate the importance of clarity, emotional resonance, and distinctive identity in crafting a brand that not only stands out but also earns unwavering loyalty from its customers.
For those looking to deepen their understanding of neuromarketing and apply actionable strategies to their e-commerce brands, this episode serves as an enlightening guide to elevating brand presence and fostering lasting connections with the audience.