Want to Boost CVR by 5X? Don’t test hooks…JUST DO THIS!

Summary

Brain Driven Brands: Episode Summary

Title: Want to Boost CVR by 5X? Don’t Test Hooks…JUST DO THIS!
Host/Author: Sarah Levinger
Release Date: July 22, 2025

In this engaging episode of Brain Driven Brands, host Sarah Levinger and guest Nate Lagos delve into advanced neuromarketing strategies that can exponentially increase conversion rates (CVR) for e-commerce brands. Centered around the provocative claim that a specific marketing tactic can boost CVR by over five times, the conversation explores the intersection of branding, psychology, and design aesthetics to captivate consumers and drive sales.

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1. Setting the Stage: Introduction and Personal Anecdotes

The episode kicks off with light-hearted banter between Sarah and Nate, highlighting the importance of personal connections and authenticity in branding. Sarah expresses concern over Nate’s reduced social media presence, prompting Nate to explain his focus on behind-the-scenes work and podcast development.

Notable Quote:
Sarah [00:48]: "I just want to hear that you're doing okay. I'm checking. Checking on all my friends."

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2. The Core Strategy: Handwritten Fonts to Boost CVR

The main focus of the episode centers on a compelling marketing tactic backed by neuroscience research: the use of handwritten fonts in advertising for hedonic products.

a. Understanding the Tactic

Sarah introduces the concept by referencing a study from "Science Says" (courtesy of Thomas McKinley), which reveals that consumers are 5.3 times more likely to purchase hedonic products—items meant purely for enjoyment—when paired with handwritten fonts. She contrasts this with utilitarian products, where system fonts perform better.

Notable Quote:
Sarah [06:06]: "Customers are 5.3 times more likely to buy hedonic products if they're paired with handwritten fonts."

b. Practical Application at OG

Nate shares how his company, OG, has begun experimenting with handwritten fonts in their advertising as part of a broader initiative to diversify visual creatives. By collaborating with external photographers and challenging the internal design team to break free from standardized styles, they've observed significant changes in brand perception and engagement.

Notable Quote:
Nate [08:37]: "Just one piece of script font had an impact, making ads feel so different."

c. Results and Observations

Implementing handwritten fonts has not only refreshed OG’s ad aesthetic but also successfully attracted a new segment of female buyers—an unexpected yet welcome outcome. The shift underscores the profound effect that seemingly minor design changes can have on consumer behavior.

Notable Quote:
Nate [10:54]: "It's getting female gift buyers right now, typically at a time where females don't have a big reason to shop."

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3. Branding with Personality: Beyond Traditional Strategies

Transitioning from specific tactics to broader branding principles, Sarah and Nate discuss the importance of infusing personality into a brand. They argue that a brand should embody human-like traits, adapting its "personality" based on context while maintaining core values.

a. Consistency vs. Creative Diversity

Nate emphasizes the delicate balance between maintaining a consistent brand image and experimenting with creative diversity. While OG has thrived on consistency, recent efforts to introduce varied design elements like handwritten fonts have opened new avenues for engagement without diluting the brand’s essence.

Notable Quote:
Nate [14:13]: "We've been writing messages constantly, all with the same feelings behind them."

b. Building Brand Personality

Sarah highlights the challenge many brands face in defining and conveying their personality. She suggests that brands should treat their identity as a human, adaptable to different environments yet recognizable in their core traits.

Notable Quote:
Sarah [17:04]: "Build a personality for your business. If you don't know the personality, go find somebody in your life who feels like the brand you want to build."

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4. Practical Tips for Building a Brand Personality

Drawing from their discussion, Sarah and Nate offer actionable advice for brands looking to cultivate a distinct personality:

• Identify the Right Influences: Find individuals or personalities that embody the brand’s desired traits and use them as a reference point.
• Consistency in Messaging: Maintain a unified tone and style across all communications to reinforce the brand’s identity.
• Adaptability in Presentation: Allow flexibility in design and messaging to cater to different contexts without compromising the brand’s core personality.
• Utilize Sensory Elements: Incorporate tactile elements like wood, leather, or specific textures to enhance the brand’s sensory appeal, particularly for hedonic products.

Notable Quote:
Sarah [23:40]: "And if you don't know the personality, go find somebody in your life who feels like the brand you want to build."

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5. Looking Ahead: Future Projects and Innovations

As the episode nears its conclusion, Nate hints at upcoming developments within OG, including the launch of new watch designs and an expanded podcast format featuring guest segments. This forward-looking perspective underscores the continuous evolution required to maintain and grow a brand in a dynamic market.

Notable Quote:
Nate [25:45]: "I'm gonna do guests... It will be interesting to see where that goes."

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Conclusion

This episode of Brain Driven Brands offers valuable insights into leveraging subtle design elements—like handwritten fonts—to significantly enhance conversion rates for hedonic products. Beyond specific tactics, the conversation underscores the importance of building a flexible, personality-driven brand that resonates deeply with consumers. Whether you're an established e-commerce player or a budding entrepreneur, Sarah and Nate's discussion provides actionable strategies to refine your brand's psychological impact and drive substantial growth.

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Where to Follow and Learn More:

• Nate Lagos on Twitter: @NateLagos
• OG Podcast: Stay tuned for upcoming episodes featuring in-depth copywriting insights and guest segments.
• Tether Insights: Visit tetherinsights.io for more resources on customer psychology, identity, and behavior studies to enhance your product-market fit and advertising effectiveness.

Join the Community:
Explore detailed analyses and join discussions at tetherinsights.io/lab to deepen your understanding of consumer emotions and behavioral trends.

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This episode is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast network and is presented by Tether Insights.

Transcript

[Nate Lagos]

Welcome back to Brain Driven Brand. Sarah was just yelling at me pre show, and then she said, hold on, we have to record this. So floor is yours, Sarah.

[Sarah]

We gotta record me losing my someday. Just based upon all the times you've told people that I have been yelling at you. Before we get on camera, people are gonna start to think I'm like Ellen DeGeneres. They're gonna be like, Sarah's actually really mean. No, I literally. Okay. And I told you before this, I was like, I have something to get off my chest about, like, your Twitter. You have been so quiet, and it has made me sad, like, you're. You're not posting as much. And I was like, where's the steak? Like, my feed is. Is not real without the. What is going on?

[Nate Lagos]

Listen, life can't just all be steak and golf and whiskey all the time. I mean, why not, though?

[Sarah]

Is it.

[Nate Lagos]

Kind of still is, but, no, I've been head down grinding. Got a bunch of work at OG these days. I'm banking episodes of my podcast to get ahead of it. So it's been a couple of weeks, but I've recorded a bunch of bangers season. Whatever I'm on in my podcast is gonna rip, so watch out for that. But, yeah, no, just. Just going a little. Just going a little dark mode. Just put my head down, getting some work done. I am still golfing and eating steak and drinking whiskey like five to six times a week. So just not posting about it as much.

[Sarah]

As long as you're keeping up good regimen, I just want to hear that you're doing okay. I'm checking. Checking on all my friends.

[Nate Lagos]

So funny. So funny that I get checked. Almost like, hey, you haven't been drinking a lot of whiskey, are you. Is everything all right at home? The only friend showing us all the.

[Sarah]

Red meat you're eating. Are you okay?

[Nate Lagos]

Is your cholesterol low? I'm worried it's getting low.

[Sarah]

What's going on? How much Red Bull you got? Let me stock you up. I'll bring some to your own. Yeah, well, I check on people mostly because, one, it's important because you're a good friend. And I'm like, don't. But if you need something, I'm here for you. But also, I want people to check on me as well. I'm like, reciprocity, everybody. I'm not okay.

[Nate Lagos]

Oh, so you didn't actually care about me. Sorry. I'll start now. Sarah, how are you doing? Is everything all right with you?

[Sarah]

I said I was 100% in there. I was like, how are you doing? Are you okay? Because I haven't seen you on Twitter also. I find it funny, though, because I'm like, some of the things that we quiz you on, on this particular show, they're on Twitter. I'm like, you're going to know the answer if you go on Twitter before I quiz you on these things. But you never do. And I'm always shocked.

[Nate Lagos]

Open Twitter, I post, and I leave. I don't read any of that.

[Sarah]

Ah, okay. All right. Well, that's probably smart, actually. You probably do it right. I'm fine, by the way. I'm just dealing with router issues. And I like. We're traveling all over the world, and I apparently didn't invite my team for very different brands on the world tour. Now everybody's all sad. I didn't mean to do this. Everybody should know I'm in Hawaii right now in somebody's laundry room, because this.

[Nate Lagos]

Is where person who's ever been to Hawaii by accident, by the way. I didn't mean to do this.

[Sarah]

I had no idea we were gonna. Okay, I should caveat. I didn't mean to plan it this way. We were going to Germany for three weeks, and we did that in June, and it was lovely and intense, and I probably would never do it again. But then. Not because Germany, because I travel with kids. That's why. Then we had a friend who was like, hey, you want a house swap? We're. We have a place in freaking Maui, Hawaii, and we'll just trade you. You guys can stay at our house. We'll stay at your house for a whole month. And I was like, okay, so we did. End of story. That. I don't know. That's a lot for me. My life is intense right now.

[Nate Lagos]

Well, it's gonna be bad.

[Sarah]

So let's do it.

[Nate Lagos]

Episode 92, we're closing in on 100. I still think we have no plans for the hundredth.

[Sarah]

Nope, we have not. Which is Sarah's fault, because we don't.

[Nate Lagos]

Very on brand for us.

[Sarah]

I don't want to plan the show. Okay. I have. I have a quiz for you today if you want to do a quiz.

[Nate Lagos]

Let's do a quiz.

[Sarah]

Okay. And then the next one. I think I have a question. We'll do a quiz episode. We'll do a question episode.

[Nate Lagos]

Okay.

[Sarah]

All right. So quiz today. Really odd thing that I was looking at. This one particular marketing tactic can increase the likelihood to buy by 5.43. So you are basically five times more likely to Buy. If your marketing has this in it now, I should give you. I should give you a little bit of a hint. This is specifically only for hedonic products, like products that are just for fun. So, yeah, if you have a funsies product and you pair it with a specific marketing tactic, you're five times more likely for people to buy. Do you know what it is?

[Nate Lagos]

I know what it is. I mean, we for sure talked about it because we're.

[Sarah]

We have.

[Nate Lagos]

We're a hedonic brand. Right. I mean, surely you would have told me something that would have increased my sales five times by now. Right? All right, so Sarah's been on retainer for us a while. For a while. And apparently holding out something we haven't talked about then.

[Sarah]

We have not talked about it, but I personally would not stick you guys in the hedonic category. Oh, that's why we haven't talked about it. I don't think that watches are technically hedonic because they have a utilitarian purpose. And then the hedonicness of it is just like personalization. The way it works is hedonic. But yeah, so this is just purely for, like, Big chocolate, right? Chocolate is a hedonic product. It's not really. There has no purpose. It's just nice to have.

[Nate Lagos]

All right. Marketing tactics increase hedonic product sales five times.

[Sarah]

Yep, five times. It's very, very ancillary. Think of some of the dumber things that I've quizzed you on that are like that. Yeah, that.

[Nate Lagos]

I don't know. Is it like some form of, like, my gut is saying, like there's some form of question involved in the marketing.

[Sarah]

Oh, yes. But no, not a question.

[Nate Lagos]

Is there something to make it seem like it's not hedonic? Something to make it seem like it's a necessity that you can't live without?

[Sarah]

That is a great question. It is actually the opposite of that. It's something that makes it seem more hedonic.

[Nate Lagos]

Oh, okay. What is it?

[Sarah]

More hedonic. Okay. This was the weirdest study I think I've ever seen my entire life. So this was found on science says I get all of my science stuff from over there because they're very well vetted. Science backed by Thomas McKinley. Shout out to that guy. This study says, according to Science, customers are 5.3 times more likely to buy hedonic products if they're paired with handwritten fonts. So think Oreo does this. Oreo has, like, those bubble letters and it's been using it for years. And years and years and years and years. So. And this is interesting because they said the opposite is true for non hedonic products. For utilitarian products like yours, using a system font apparently sells better than using a handwritten font.

[Nate Lagos]

Wow, that's so interesting.

[Sarah]

I'm like, why would this be so? According to this study, it seems like using handwritten fonts makes things seem more human, and that's the reason why you should use it for those type of products. But now I'm interested to see. Have you ever tested using a handwritten font anywhere in your ecosystem in the last seven days?

[Nate Lagos]

Yes. And that's it.

[Sarah]

Really?

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah. So we've been, we've been on a little bit of a mission for, like, visual creative diversity recently.

[Sarah]

Oh, okay.

[Nate Lagos]

A lot of our ads, because, like, I just wanted to see. I just want to see if we can unlock something.

[Sarah]

I'm down with that. Just.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah, yeah. Like, a lot of our ads look and feel the same and a lot of them work really well. Like, we're not complaining, but lately we've worked with some outside photographers who have been great and we've been challenging Chris, our internal design guy, just be like, hey, let's mix it up. Let's see kind of what else we can do. And one of the things we talked about was font, and he was like, hey, like, everything looks and feels the same because, like, we put a big headline and block copy on something. Yeah, if it's our normal fonts, it's going to feel that way. So he was basically asking like, hey, can I be free from the style guide and like, do whatever I want? I was like, yeah, go for it.

[Sarah]

Do whatever I want to do. That sounds like Chris. Chris is very much like, I'm going to push every envelope and it's all going to work.

[Nate Lagos]

And he came back with some ads that, like, was the same photos and, like, pretty similar graphic treatments, but different fonts made them feel like a different brand. Like, made it feel so different. And I couldn't believe the impact, like, just, just one piece of script font had on an ad that otherwise is like, through and through in a regional grain ad. And some of them are doing pretty good. But yeah, it's, it's really interesting, like, how much a difference, feel and vibe you can get just from playing with fonts.

[Sarah]

The inner designer in me, and I'm sure every designer listening to this is like, thank you validation, like, everything I've ever known in my life to be true. Yeah, I, I don't think people realize how Much. We're affected by those weird little tiny things. If you've listened to the show long enough, you know every tiny thing that you do affects people. People in some particular way, even right down to, like, is your font slanted? Are you using italics? That's a good episode, by the way. Go listen to that one if you haven't. But I. I find this really interesting because in this particular case, it makes logical sense that, like, a handwritten font would work for those type of products. Your product, like I said, is a blended. Like, it's utilitarian in purpose, but it's hedonic in what's, like, perception.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

So you have, like, a blended product.

[Nate Lagos]

So I would say, like, smart watches are utilitarian, and I would say, like, $30 Casios are utilitarian. I think the minute you spend more than $50 on a watch, you are not just buying it for the utility. So I think we kind of walk that line at best. But if you're just trying to tell time, there's not a reason why you have to buy a watch from us. Yeah, you are buying a watch from us for the other benefits besides the utility of it.

[Sarah]

Yeah, true. Okay.

[Nate Lagos]

And like. And then I. I think that's true for Rolex and every brand above us. Of, like. Well, they all tell the same time.

[Sarah]

Yeah, they all do the same. They all tell time in general. Okay, so now my question is, what types of scripty fonts is he trying. Because I want to see. Is it more feminine script. Scripty fonts? That's working?

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Have you tried just the, like, handwriting? So it's not a script. It just looks like regular. What do you call it? Like, regular handwriting? I don't know.

[Nate Lagos]

No, not really, but I'd love to.

[Sarah]

Okay. All right. That's interesting that the feminine scripts are working for this particular product. Is that getting in more women?

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah, and we haven't done them on the ads that we know we are supposed to get more women on. That's another secret thing we're working on. Um, but we should do it there. But no, it's. It's getting female gift buyers right now, typically at a time where females don't have a big reason to shop. Right now we're past Father's Day. There's nothing else till Christmas.

[Sarah]

Yeah, there really isn't. There really isn't anything until, like, Black Friday, like, era, which we can do a whole other episode on Amazon and all of the bullshit that's happening over there. Amazon Prime Day was a really interesting day. Days, Days and multiple days.

[Nate Lagos]

Let's talk about font more. I'm on a font kick. Do you have. What if you sell something that's not hedonic, something super practical, you should go more like blocky system fonts.

[Sarah]

So in this study, I need to look up and see what the. I don't think they gave the exact font that they were using, but they were talking about the fact that machine written fonts are going to be obviously better for anything that's utilitarian like we're talking about. But in general, how can you tell what's a system font or like a machine written font? What's a handwriting font? Right. So do you need to go like Edwardian script? I don't think so. You don't have to go that crazy with it. But look at the brands who inject fun into their ecosystems. They're using handwritten fonts. So we talked about this. I don't know if we got this on recording or not. But Oreo, I think we're talking about the beginning. Oreo uses these type of bubbly fonts and has for years and years, but they back it up with color with like different graphics that they're using. So for, for you, this is interesting because you're a blended product. You. Yeah. Your whole ecosystem, the images that you use, the product shots that you have, like the extra pieces to your brand don't generally say fun, fancy, adventure brand. Usually they always just say very stable, focused. Yeah, yeah, interesting. Very stable, focused, utilitarian. So I've had people ask this question a lot in the last couple weeks and it's driving me a little crazy because I'm like, oh, I need to figure out this thought problem in my head so I can give people some things. But everybody keeps asking, how do I. How do I build a feeling into the brand? And the only person I know to ask about this is you. Because I'm like, you guys have built speed feeling into the brand. So I need to know, how did you figure that out? Because I haven't come up with a good answer for this yet. I know what it looks like when I feel it or when I see a brand that knows how to build feeling, but I don't know how to build it yet.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah. So a couple things. One, we're very lucky in that our products are made out of wood. Something that's super texture heavy.

[Sarah]

So true.

[Nate Lagos]

And I think like, anytime we can include wood or leather or even some like rusted out iron.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

You know, barrel staves, whatever. Like all of those stuff is so texture heavy. I think that helps a lot. Secondly, I think the consistency in our messaging has been really key. Like, this hasn't just been about testing a couple of headlines here and there. It's like, for three years now, we have been writing messages constantly, all with the same feelings behind them.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

So I think that's a big thing. And, yeah, lastly, like, and maybe we're shooting ourselves in the foot here, going after creative diversity, but before last week, we have been incredibly consistent in the look and the vibe and the props and how we light our shoots and everything. It's been so consistent for three years now that I think, like, when you see one of our watches, even not in an ad, or you see an ad of ours, the feelings we want you to feel are all there and easily recognizable.

[Sarah]

Did you guys choose a feeling that you wanted to convey, or did you. Did you just start crafting and it eventually kind of became what it is.

[Nate Lagos]

The latter. Like, we had some ideas from when we first worked with you on, like, how we should be messaging and promoting this, but it's really kind of developed off of testing, seeing what performed. Testing again, seeing what performed. And after now three years of it, it's pretty clear, like, hey, this is how we want everything to look and feel.

[Sarah]

Yeah. See, I find this interesting because you guys are very careful, like, when you select things, images and text messaging and, like, the way we lay things out. You're very careful about your ecosystem. There's some brands that I come in contact with which I'm like, I don't feel like you guys have thought this through. Like, I don't feel like you put a whole lot of work into this. Not again. It's not a bad thing, but it's just, like, it feels very standardized. So, for instance, I might get in trouble for saying this. True Classic is one where I'm like, you guys feel very templated. Almost like, I don't. I don't see a whole lot of brand inside that brand because everything that they are shooting almost seems like it.

[Nate Lagos]

I don't know, sterile.

[Sarah]

Like, it's more of a copy and paste. Yeah, we're very, very clean is what it is. Not necessarily, like, highly stylized clean. It's just very. Like, we took a picture. And that's interesting because you can almost feel it inside the brand. And I love True Classic. Like, their brand is very, very big. And I love the messaging because True Classic really has kind of landed their own USP and their own kind of, like, angle on things. But the environment doesn't quite match what the messaging angle is. That's why I was like, I need to know your process for how you think about how do we match feeling with message? I also think you just have to have somebody who has a good eye for it.

[Nate Lagos]

But, yeah, I mean, like, you can't teach taste. But, like, I think our team from the top at Ryan and Andrew, down to the creators, like, have really aligned on, like, what we want to look like. Um, and then, you know, for. For me, like, whenever. When. Whenever anyone says brand, I, like, kind of hate it. Cause it's such an abstract thing. I like to replace it with personality. Like, what do you want your company's personality to be?

[Sarah]

Smart. Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

And the thing that we think about is, like, if I. If I invited you over to my house on a Friday night, you, knowing me, have some idea of what to expect you. Yeah. We would grill some steak. We drink some whiskey. We'd have a fire out back. You would dress for it.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

You would come prepared for. You'd bring antacid and tums. You might bring me a bottle of whiskey, because, you know, that's what I like. Whereas if Sarah was hosting a party at her house, I would show up to that dressed differently and expecting it would be so weird than if I was hosting it.

[Sarah]

I love that you can't describe what you would experience at my house, though. That kind of cracks me up. He's like, I don't know. There's so weird. It could be literally anything.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah. The appetizer was a quiz about psychology. And then.

[Sarah]

Experience would be my kids just asking you questions. They would just be like, nate, come play with us. So you and I would not talk. You would just be playing kids. Because as you can see, that's my whole entire life. So. Yeah. So everybody has own personal brands, which I think is. I use this phrase with a lot of different people, where it's that personality. You got to pick a personality for your brand. People are always like, well, which personality? How do I know how to build that? I'm like, pick a person in your life that feels like the brand you want to create, and then go after it. Like, go talk to that person a lot and just be like, tell me all the things about yourself that I need to know. What kind of pictures do you like? What kind of decor do you put in your house? Like, what kind of car do you. Right. Like, get all that down. Because I'm sure there's somebody on the planet that fits the OG Brand who just Embodies it. Right.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And that you could just go find that guy and then he could just be like, here's all the things that I like and you can pretty much piece it together or, you know, you just hire somebody's good at. But in general, all of these little details really do make a brand, including all the fonts. So it's interesting that you're testing both now because in my opinion, you're a blended brand, hedonic and. And utilitarian. So doesn't shock me that, like, the handwritten ones are working because I'm like, yeah, well.

[Nate Lagos]

And like, you're in that weird crack. The reason we're trying it is like, do you remember when you first suggested us to use more feminine materials in content? So we use like silk and velvet. That stuff at the time looked and felt very different than anything we had done. And we got way better at marketing to women.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

So I'm basically thinking like, oh, are there other things we can do visually to unlock new cohorts? So that's kind of what we're thinking. I think we can start to push the boundaries a little bit.

[Sarah]

As you should.

[Nate Lagos]

While still staying true to who we are.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Because as you grow, you're going to need to figure out new pathways to get people in. And that's the interesting part, is brands are always like, top of fun on top of. We have so hard time bringing it to top of fun. And I'm like, yeah, well, you're using the same creative that you used seven years ago. Of course you're having a hard time time. Like, you can't. And this is the weird part, you can stick to brand and still expand. You can have whatever it is that makes you unique and, like, be very concise as Nate has and very, like, conscious of the imagery you're choosing of the fonts you're choosing and still expand. Like, you don't have to just use one type. You have this. Have your. You need it too, is what I'm saying.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah. And like, going back to the personal example, like, I think people understand this when it's them. I know when I go over to certain friends houses, we act and talk and behave differently than when I go to my in laws house. I'm the same guy. I'm not faking for either one. It's just over here we talk and do things like this. Over here we talk and do things like this. And that's okay. I'm not putting on a show for anyone. Like, it's still me. I Think your brand has to act like that, too?

[Sarah]

Yeah. Like, you morph. Humans morph a lot, depending on context. So, yeah, I think at the end of the day, everybody should understand that your brand is a human. That's what you're building. Technically speaking, how that human behaves in different environments is going to change it. It should. It's up to you to decide who that person is in different contexts. When you go to, like, a trade show, you're going to come across very different than in your ads. Like, it just. It's going to happen, and you shouldn't try and be perfect everywhere. I don't think that that's the game anymore. It's just we can be a little soft, a little feminine. And honestly, your particular crowd seems to, according to, like, what we found in the cim, they seem to lean that way where they're like, I'm just. I'm here to, like, love on my family and, like, build a good life. And that's. I'm not really here to just be, like, the heaviest, masculine, most crazy dude. I'm really just kind of trying to live a good life. I love it.

[Nate Lagos]

Well, this is, like, this is. Is one of the many reasons I hate the phrase, uh, how you do one thing is how you do everything. I. Oh, I don't believe that's true at all. At all. At all. At all. And I think, yeah, once people look at their own lives, they realize that I am a very organized and diligent and efficient and consistent marketer. Right. But I haven't done a dish in a very long time. Okay.

[Sarah]

Don't admit that.

[Nate Lagos]

Like, I don't do dishes. I was working when my wife asked me to. I, like, don't do a great job at her. That's all about to change on September 6th.

[Sarah]

But I was gonna say, you better get ready because. But, like, chores. That's my question.

[Nate Lagos]

We'll figure it out. I'll ask Chat. But, like, I think your brand, like, we talk to prospects differently than we talk to past.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

Customers.

[Sarah]

Oh, it's so true.

[Nate Lagos]

And, like, we have a fun watch coming out at the end of this month that I haven't told you about. That I'm excited to get your take on. Off camera, actually. But, like, we're going to talk about that watch very differently than how we talk about the Jack Daniels.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

Collection. Like, and again, like, it's all still OG through and through, but I think your brand has to be flexible. Just like people are flexible.

[Sarah]

Yes. I would agree. Oh, this is a Good branding conversation. I did not mean for us to go into the brand weeds, but this is something that a lot of people ask me about, and I'm just like, I. Like, I don't have a very good answer for it because branding is such a vague topic, but also because it's a totally different strategy. Like, paid advertising has, like, a very clear, like, delineation of, like, here's the steps and yada, yada. But brand is one of those things where I'm like, sometimes you just have to find someone who can feel it really well, who just feels the brand inside their soul, like. Like Nate does, and then just build it. Like, he just knows what to look for. That's whatever it comes down to. Yeah.

[Nate Lagos]

Don't think about building brand. Build a personality for your business.

[Sarah]

Yep. Agree.

[Nate Lagos]

That'll make it, I think, way more clear for everyone about what you're doing.

[Sarah]

And if you don't know the personality, go find somebody in your life who feels like the brand you want to build, and then every week, sit down with that person to be like, what pictures do you like? What. What kind of house do you want? Literally, where do you travel a lot? Like, yes, go. Just go get real nosy.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah. We're now, like, we've worked with a couple country artists, and I. I think they might be getting annoyed with me, but I'm texting them, like, future watch designs. I'm like, hey, what do you think? Because I'm like, well, that's the guy that I want to be excited to promote it. I want his fans to buy it. So, like, yeah, let's get it. He's not a watch designer, but they.

[Sarah]

Give you their number now. I'm jealous. Dang.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah]

I'm friends with country stars. Speed dial. Anybody I know? Like, I. Should I be jealous? I'm a country singer, like, aficionado? I don't know. That's a weird, like, Sarah ism. I mean, I want to name her.

[Nate Lagos]

Go look at our content. You'll figure it out.

[Sarah]

I really, really love country, and I have for a very long time. And my whole entire family is like, you are the weirdest person ever. But I do love country musical life.

[Nate Lagos]

I know. You sent me Hardy's album a couple weeks ago.

[Sarah]

I did.

[Nate Lagos]

I was like, you, Hardy, let's go.

[Sarah]

I do. He was at Red Rocks a couple weeks ago. Red Rocks is endeavor. If you guys haven't seen a concert at Red Rocks, fly into Denver and see a concert. It is, like, a totally different concert experience. Anyway, go look it up if you don't want rare rocks. But Hardy was there and I missed it because our kid got sick. I was like, come.

[Nate Lagos]

That's tough, right?

[Sarah]

One every single time. Every single. Anyways, all right, so to wrap this up, handwritten Fox. Cool. That's nice thing. But brands.

[Nate Lagos]

Yeah. But build personality into your company.

[Sarah]

Oh, I love that this went this way. Okay. Great show today. Where could people find you if they would like to follow your journey?

[Nate Lagos]

You can follow me at Nate Lagos on the Twitter and my podcast is going to be coming back strong next week. We got a bunch of cool things laid out for Q3. Gonna deep dive on copywriting a couple times. And then have I told you about the guest segment I'm gonna do?

[Sarah]

No, I didn't know you were doing guests.

[Nate Lagos]

I'm gonna do guests. So far our guests have been limited to you, Connor from Ridge and AJ Vaynerchuk.

[Sarah]

I think I've been the only guys.

[Nate Lagos]

But no, I'm gonna do new kind of thing. I'm gonna call it friends and enemies and I'm either gonna bring on people who I like or people who I really don't like. And you guys are gonna have to guess. The guests won't know either, by the way.

[Sarah]

Here's the thing, though. You don't have a poker face. Like I can tell immediately you don't like sp. Funny. I should not come on the show because then I'll be able to give it away. This will be interesting. So is this practice? Are you saying that you don't like me and you've just been practicing on our show?

[Nate Lagos]

No.

[Sarah]

Last year.

[Nate Lagos]

No. You're one of the good ones.

[Sarah]

All right, follow me out there. Loves your. Outside of the vloggers, everywhere you substitute content these days. I'm over on TikTok now pulling some numbers, doing great. I don't know anything about that platform. I don't. It's. I've had to like Uvo a whole lot of like, how do you use TikTok? So it'll be interesting to see where that goes. But otherwise, check us out tetherinsights IO you can actually go over there and get a bunch of information on what your customers want most psychologically. We are studying all kinds of interesting things like identity, behavior, all kinds of things about the emotions of your customers. All of this plays into your product market fit. All of it plays into how well your ads do. So please come over there, check us out and if you want to join the community. Scotty O, thank you for the reminder that's S K-O-O-L school.com backslash tether-lab school.com-lab thank you. This was great. Brain Driven Brands is part of the Learn and Laugh series on the Quickfire Podcast network and is presented by Tether Insights. For more information, go to tetherinsights IO.