Collaborative Leadership: A Case Study of Campbell's Omnichannel Success

Summary

Brave Commerce: Collaborative Leadership – A Case Study of Campbell's Omnichannel Success

Episode Release Date: October 15, 2024
Hosts: Rachel Tippograph (Founder & CEO, MikMak) and Sarah Hofstadter (President, Profitero)

In this insightful episode of Brave Commerce, Rachel Tippograph and Sarah Hofstadter delve into the collaborative leadership strategies that have propelled Campbell's Snacks to omnichannel success. Featuring Jan delucan, Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) at Campbell Snacks, and Mike Pearson, Head of Sales at Campbell Snacks, the discussion provides an in-depth look at how cohesive sales and marketing teams can drive innovative product launches and sustained growth in the competitive eCommerce landscape.

Introduction to Campbell's Snacks Portfolio

Sarah Hofstadter kickstarts the episode by highlighting the diverse range of brands under Campbell's Snacks, including iconic names like Goldfish, Pepperidge Farm, Cape Cod Chips, Prego, and Snyder's of Hanover Pretzels. This broad portfolio underscores the division's robust presence in the snack food market.

Sarah Hofstadter [04:00]: "Goldfish. Goldfish is part of the Campbell Snacks portfolio."
Rachel Tippograph [04:01]: "Cape Cod chips."
Sarah Hofstadter [04:22]: "We've got Kettle Chips. We got Late July. We got Lance Snack, Landscrackers."

Strategic Shift: From Kid's Crackers to All-Family Snacks

Jan delucan explains the strategic pivot that transformed Goldfish from a predominantly children's cracker into an all-family snack, driven by the revelation that nearly 50% of Goldfish consumption occurs among adults—a significant market opportunity previously untapped.

Jan delucan [07:38]: "We discovered that nearly 50% of Goldfish consumption was happening with adults. This led us to pivot from cracker to snack, opening up new growth avenues."

Innovative Product Launch: Goldfish Crisps

The conversation transitions to the Goldfish Crisps launch, a product inspired by potato chips yet retaining the playful shape characteristic of Goldfish. Jan and Mike discuss the collaborative efforts between sales and marketing teams to develop and execute this innovation.

Jan delucan [10:19]: "Once we knew where the vision was going, it starts with high levels of trust in the partnership. We brought our commercial teams together to plan a best-in-class launch."

Cross-Functional Collaboration and Common Goals

A key highlight is the "commercial forum" established by Jan and Mike, fostering a unified approach between sales and marketing. This forum emphasized common purpose and shared KPIs, such as speed to shelf and timely execution, ensuring that both teams worked synergistically towards the launch goals.

Mike Pearson [15:17]: "We were so maniacally aligned on the objectives—speed to shelf, time frame. It wasn’t about who was in sales or marketing; it was about a common goal."

Retail Partnership and Omnichannel Strategy

The panel delves into the strategies employed to secure retail partnerships, focusing on category growth and ensuring that Goldfish Crisps were positioned effectively both physically and digitally. Emphasis was placed on custom displays, online discoverability, and sampling initiatives to drive consumer trials and boost online ratings.

Jan delucan [18:06]: "We weren't going to go in the chip aisle. We leveraged display and discoverability to help retailers grow the cracker category alongside our innovation."

Addressing E-commerce and Data Alignment Challenges

Sarah Hofstadter and Jan discuss the complexities of synchronizing data from various retail partners and the importance of democratizing data for precise consumer targeting. They highlight the necessity of transparency with retail partners regarding investments and the effective use of data to enhance marketing strategies.

Mike Pearson [26:13]: "Building transparency with retail partners on all the costs is crucial. We need to know where all the money is spent and ensure it drives a return for both parties."

Balancing Brand Support Within the Portfolio

Rachel Tippograph sheds light on how Campbell's prioritizes brand support within its portfolio, focusing resources on brands like Goldfish that deliver significant growth and profitability while tailoring support strategies for other brands based on their unique market positions.

Rachel Tippograph [32:12]: "We feed the ones that are going to deliver the most growth. Goldfish is a billion-dollar business, delivering strong growth, and it receives full spectrum support."

Lessons in Collaborative Leadership and Innovation

The episode culminates with the hosts and guests reflecting on the bravest actions they've undertaken in their careers, emphasizing the importance of risk-taking, transparency, and shared leadership in achieving successful outcomes.

Rachel Tippograph [33:30]: "I flew to South Korea alone to teach English for a year. It was one of the bravest things I ever did, teaching me a lot about myself and my culture."
Ryan Reynolds [34:17]: "The bravest thing I've done was resigning from Pepperidge Farm to start a snack food innovation company from scratch. It taught me about risk tolerance and speed in innovation."

Conclusion

Rachel and Sarah wrap up the episode by celebrating the success story of Campbell's Snacks, underscoring the vital role of collaborative leadership in navigating the challenges of omnichannel marketing and sales. They invite listeners to explore more episodes featuring dynamic duos who are shaping the future of eCommerce.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Jan delucan [07:38]: "We saw an opportunity to take inspiration from another category, chips, and create our take on a potato chip while retaining the fun shape of Goldfish."
• Mike Pearson [15:17]: "Our teams worked together seamlessly. We were so united that the teams started solving gaps without us having to intervene."
• Ryan Reynolds [26:13]: "Transparency of investment costs has to happen because there isn't any more money left for all of us to find new investments."

This episode offers a comprehensive case study on how Campbell's Snacks leverages collaborative leadership to drive innovation, foster seamless sales and marketing integration, and achieve omnichannel success in a dynamically evolving market.

Transcript

[Ryan Reynolds]

The new Boost Mobile network is offering unlimited talk, text and data for just $25 a month for life.

[Rachel Tippograph]

That sounds like a threat.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Then how do you think we should say it?

[Rachel Tippograph]

Unlimited talk, text and data for just $25 a month for the rest of your life.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I don't know.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Until your ultimate demise.

[Ryan Reynolds]

What if we just say forever? Okay, $25 a month. Forever.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Get unlimited talk, text and Data for just $25 a month. With Boost Mobile Forever, after 30 gigabytes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan. Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. You know, one of the perks about having four kids that you know about is actually getting a direct line to the big man up north. And this year he wants you to know the best gift that you can give someone is the gift of Mint Mobile's unlimited wireless for $15 a month. Now, you don't even need to wrap it. Give it a [e-mail] switch.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

$45 upfront payment required. Equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only. Taxes and fees. Extra speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This commercial partnership, we do like each other, by the way. We drove two hours in the car on the way here and we're going to drive two hours on the way home, I hope. But I think that partnership is.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

We're not done yet.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We're not done yet. Well, that's where the transparency is. But it's something that we have to continue. This is probably a good debate amongst.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Us, right, Because Shopper sits in in Mike's organization and consumer sits in the marketing organization. But our teams work together and so there's a healthy amount of tension all the time, but it blurs. And we debate a lot on budgets and P&Ls that can't support, like the stronger investment. Like, how do we get smarter with the investment that we do have?

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Welcome to today's episode of Brave Commerce.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I'm Rachel Tippograph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I'm Sarah Hofstadter, president of Profitero.

[Rachel Tippograph]

And this is a show that talks about what's relevant e commerce for the world's biggest brands.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

So today's episode, we have a special treat bringing you one of the best sessions that we had at Brave Commerce live. And the reason I say it's one of the best, it's because it's one of my favorite companies in the whole world. Full Disclosure, I'm on their board of directors. But we are so happy to share a live recording that took place in May in New York City featuring Jan delucan, the CMO at Campbell Snacks, and Mike Pearson, the head of sales at Campbell Snacks. And I think one of the things that we hear so often on the show is about the interrelationship between sales and marketing. And here you see the dynamics live between Janda and Mike as they battle. What does it mean to bring new products to market? And what are the puts and takes that need for these organizations to be able to effectively use every tool in their toolkit with the amount of precision that is needed and the cross departmental collaboration, the messiness that is Omnichannel and the like. But I don't want to give away too many of the secrets because our guests have the best stories to tell. So on that note, over to Janta and Mike. The folks that I have up on the podium with me now are from Campbell's. And what you may not know though, is that the Campbell's Snacks division has a lot of brands that you may not realize are actually part of Campbell's. So I am going to survey some random people to say a brand that they know that is within the Campbell Snacks portfolio. Rachel, would you like to guess one?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Goldfish.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Goldfish. Goldfish is part of the Campbell Snacks portfolio. Christina, what is something else that is in the Campbell Snacks portfolio? Pepperidge Farm. Yum. Michelle, what else is in the Campbell Snacks portfolio?

[Rachel Tippograph]

Cape Cod chips.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Cape Cod chips. Anyone else want to venture? Jamie, what you got? Prego is a Campbell's brand. If you want to consider it a snack, we could. You go, girl. Snyder's of Hanover Pretzels. Thank you to Sean from Utz.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Is that a great competitor?

[Rachel Tippograph]

Takes one to know one.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

We've got Kettle Chips. We got Late July. We got Lance Snack, Landscrackers. Lots of brands that are within the Campbell's portfolio. Each iconic in their own, in their own right. Lots of fun stuff. And so the way that Campbell's is organized, there are two divisions. There's meals and beverages. The meals would include things like soup and sauces. And like the eight, there's like a whole bunch. And then the snacks division is pretty damn robust. And so they operate as two different divisions, each with their own sales and marketing lead. And today we are blessed to have the sales and marketing leads here today. Janda and Mike. Yay. So I thought that especially in light of the conversation that we've been having over the course of the Morning. On a lot of the Hot Topics. One of these big themes is who owns it anyway? And so no better than to go to the tippy top and talk about it super duper, candidly in front of all of you and your competitors. And they said yes. And that's because I'm on the board. This wasn't in the script, so they couldn't say no. I mean, that's right. Right.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It's partially true.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Yeah. It's partially true.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Yeah. Jantha and I go way back.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Way back.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Way back.

[Rachel Tippograph]

How many years it's been probably 10, 15, 17.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Yeah.

[Rachel Tippograph]

So I used to work at Mondelez, ran Oreo when Sara was leading our digital and social agency. So we had a great partnership and did some cool things together and different cookie.

[Ryan Reynolds]

You guys are old.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I'm sorry, what?

[Ryan Reynolds]

I'm in the middle here.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I did when I was 15. What are you talking about? Speechless.

[Rachel Tippograph]

But really not speechless, knowing you.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

No, no, no. This is what's gonna come. Just so you know. This is what's gonna come when he already starts making fun of my age and the youngest board member, too.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Fair point.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

What we're gonna be talking about is, like, basically, who owns it anyway? Where does it sit? How does the magic happen? And so we decided that for the purposes of bringing it to life, one of the hardest things to do these days is launch a new product. And when it comes to launching a new product, you really have to think about, like, how did you do it for decades? And then how do you do it today? So goldfish recently came out with crisps, which one of these lovely individuals will tell you more about, because it's not kosher and I can't eat it, but I'm not bitter. But we're going to talk about how a bill becomes a law and how organizations rally around new product development as a red thread for us to talk more about it. What do you guys think? Good idea. Who has not yet tried Goldfish Crisps? All right, you get a crisp, you get a crisp, everybody gets a crisp. I appreciate the audience participation. So when we think about adding crisps as part of the portfolio strategy, how did you guys even, like, how did the conversation start? Somebody in innovation says, hey, we figured out how to turn this into something more awesome than it already is. Because goldfish is so awesome, we think there's a market opportunity. What happens?

[Rachel Tippograph]

So it all starts with strategy. So on Goldfish, most of you probably know goldfish as a kid's cracker, and we grew the goldfish business for like 10 years, 15 years being a kid's cracker. And probably about three years ago, we decided, based on some insights that we had, that nearly 50% of goldfish consumption was happening with adults. Whoa.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Any of you in there? All right, all right, all right.

[Rachel Tippograph]

And the awesome.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Watch out.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Maybe 75.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Watch out.

[Rachel Tippograph]

And so we discovered this and said, this is amazing. What a tremendous opportunity. We haven't been talking to adults in our communication. We hadn't been reaching out to them. And so that led us to this new growth opportunity of how we were going to continue to grow goldfish beyond just a kid's cracker to an all family snack. So, again, pivot from cracker to snack, which led us to really open up a whole new opportunity for growth on the business. That led us to limited editions, for example, that we'd never done before. In the past, we did a lot of amazing partnerships with Disney. So you think Disney princesses. We did Nemo, which is very much in the kid kind of realm. With this new strategy, we started doing limited editions partnering with Frank's Red Hot Sauce. So we knew that more adult flavor profile. So we started doing things a little bit differently. Our campaigns were different. We started talking about the way adults eat goldfish is different than how kids eat goldfish. How do adults eat goldfish? By the handful. By the handful, by the handful. So kids will play with it. It is a very playful snack, but by the handful. And so new campaign then led us to new innovation as well. Back to goldfish crisps. So we knew people loved the cracker, but we saw an opportunity to take inspiration from another category, chips. So how do you take the best of goldfish, which is this really fun, playful shape, and do our take on a potato chip? And so that led us to partnering with R and D to say, this is our vision. This is how we want to create this innovation. How do we actually make it? What's the recipe? How do we make it in our supply chain, in our bakeries? What's the right pack format? And then ultimately, how do you launch it? Which is part of what the reason we're here today to talk about how do you launch an innovation in a really compelling way when it's really complicated out there to get people to try something new?

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Want to take it from there?

[Ryan Reynolds]

First of all, it's a compliment to work with one of the best marketers in the business. So the strategy of the brand, which Jenna's been able to do with her team, to democratize use education beyond what it was formed to do has given us the ability in sales to think differently on how to bring this brand to life. So once we knew where the vision was going, starting with the strategy as Jinda laid out, then it starts with high, high levels of trust in the partnership. So I think, I hope what we do a good job doing is we don't really work with these firewalls when it comes to execution and getting things done. It's always in service to the strategy, the brand. Then we bring our commercial teams together and I think this is one of the breakthroughs that we had for Goldfish. Chris launch is very up the funnel. We brought my leadership team and Janice leadership team together in one room and we war roomed and whiteboarded how we wanted to have a best in class launch with this innovation. And so she knows this because she sits on the board and she sees the scorecards. But I could go as far to say it's been Omnisend automates all the busy work for you. It can capture customers who abandon their shopping carts, recommend other products based on their purchases, wish them a happy birthday with a personalized offer, or instantly notify them as soon as your best sellers are back in stock. Start free with Omnisend today and keep growing effortlessly, sale after sale. To get people excited about Boost Mobile's new nationwide 5G network, we're offering unlimited talk, text and data for 25amonth.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Forever.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Even if you have a baby.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Even if your baby has a baby.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Even if you grow old and wrinkly and you start repeating yourself, Even if.

[Rachel Tippograph]

You start repeating yourself, even if you're.

[Ryan Reynolds]

On your deathbed and you need to make one last call or text, right? Or text the long lost son you.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Abandoned at birth, you'll still get unlimited talk, text and Data for just 25amonth. With Boost Mobile Forever, after 30 gigabytes.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Customers may experience slower speeds. Customers will pay $25 a month as long as they remain active on the Boost Unlimited plan.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Forever.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here for I guess my hundredth Mint commercial. No, no, no, no, no, no. Don't, don't, don't. No. Honestly, when I started this I thought I only have to do like four of these. I mean it's unlimited to Premium Wireless for $15 a month. How are there still people paying two or three times that much? I'm sorry, I shouldn't be victim blaming. Here, give it a [e-mail] switch whenever you're ready.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only taxes and fees. Extra speed, slower above 40 gigabytes. See details.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The best launch we've had in our company's history in the division because of the partnership. That's a big part of our special sauce. It's very easy to get into your silos and work in your functions. But at the end of the day, if you're all motivated by the same thing and you have the same scorecard and the same KPIs, you can ship 35,000 displays of goldfish Crisp before it even resets. And that's what we were able to do.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Take us into the room where it happened. You throw a bunch of people into a room, then what?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Sales and marketing folks in one room? Yeah, I think most people in here probably know what happens in those meetings, but I'll let her take a shot at it.

[Rachel Tippograph]

So Mike and I actually got together and said, how do we make this the biggest?

[Sarah Hofstadter]

By the way, we're totally making this up. They just met for the first time today.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's not true.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Can't you tell? So we got in a room together. Mike and I had talked about, how do we make this the biggest launch? And we said, let's create a commercial forum. So we view ourselves as the commercial team. And so, as Mike said, the leadership teams together and saying, how do we make this the biggest launch in Campbell's history? Basically, there was a lot of pushback. There was a lot of debate, we can't do this. We can't launch this in this time period. We can't do. So there was a lot. And we let the team debate it and say of how they couldn't do it. And then we reframed it to say, I get all the challenges. How might we do it? How might we do it differently? Launching in store, online, all at the same time, which was a really big feat for us. The other thing is, I actually asked. We have folks that ran the launch, and I asked the question, what made this the most successful launch? And I think it goes back to this commercial forum, but it also went to. It was a junior military officer who had just started with us and been with the organization about 12 months. And I asked him, because he was working on the launch four months after the launch, what made this the most successful launch? He said, the single biggest thing was we all had common purpose. We all knew this was the priority for the organization. We were all in it together. It didn't matter what seat I was in. We all were working together on it. There were, like, no egos. With this, it was how might we pull all of this off together? And while it seems really obvious, I just thought it was really insightful for him to be able to share that one single thing. It's not who's in sales or marketing. It's really, we have a common goal and then how do we work towards it?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Just one thing to build on that. I think what's really important. Going back to the room that day, I remember Jand and I were sitting at the end of the table next to each other and we're watching the family debate how to do this. And it was like, wow, this is working. Because part of it for us was we weren't sure if this was gonna work. But what was very clear. Well, maybe I wasn't, but what was very clear was that we were both maniacally aligned on the objectives. Speed to shelf, time frame. I'm not going to tell you what those were, but Those were our KPIs. So the non negotiables were very clear. And I think sometimes when you have the cross functional teams working together, they're looking at the leaders to see if you're splintered, they're looking to see if there's fracture in the alignment. And that was one thing that we were not going to compromise. So I don't think they would have known who was running sales or marketing in that room that day. Because we were so united that at points of the meeting we literally left and we're like, you guys go figure it out. And it's amazing when you actually step out of the room and then you come back in, they were already solving all of the gaps without us even having to intervene. And so from there we put the execution model in place and the rest was history.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

How did you go to retailers with it as a united front? You had the concept, you knew where you needed to get. But when it comes to the song and dance with the buyers, there are a couple of problem statements that you're trying to get over. Obviously you're creating kind of a new category. It's a little bit, it's a snack, like a chip. So it's kind of like potato chips. You've got aisle issues and then you've got search issues, like just in terms of brand discovery, like when you went into, I don't know, some retailer that happens to be based in like northwest Arkansas, for example, like how would you go about thinking through how you do this differently than you've done it in the past? And you do not have to use that One as an example, but just your mindset and like how did you think about it differently? Maybe even not just because it was a new product launch, not just because it was a new category, but the reason we picked this as the red thread was because it has lots of permutations. But also if it were pre Covid, how is it different from pre Covid that you think about your go to market strategy with the retailer?

[Rachel Tippograph]

Let's take tag team. All right. I think the first thing is because this is Goldfish is shelved in the cracker aisle, being able to bring an innovation that helps the retailer understand how we're going to grow the cracker category was really important. We were talking about this is our take on chips, we were going to be shelved in the aisle. So from a category perspective and the retailer perspective, we're going to help grow the category. So I think that was one of the foundational things just in the start of the conversation. We weren't going to go in the chip aisle. That's not our core competency. What we were going to do is we were going to leverage display and discoverability because this food delivered on the promise that we had put out there. So I think that was the starting point of it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah, just so to build on that, I think the credibility, first of all, we wouldn't have gotten the retailers to buy in if we hadn't put the foundation of the credibility to expand the occasions and do what the brand can now do. So I think it was necessary momentum of the business that enabled us to be able to have these conversations. I think everyone in the room knows that the maturation of digital commerce, e commerce across the retailers in the US is very fragmented. So while you have a one size 1980s fits all shotgun launch of your innovation, now you have different tools in your toolbox that you can leverage to be able to get better execution at some retailers, but maybe not all of them. So we, we happened to pick some retailers that we knew we were going to go big on, but we had discipline. So if we were going to go big, this is what we were going to require from our retail partners to be able to do both physically and digitally. And as you know, some retailers can do both of those things better than some others. Without giving you our whole route to market and go to market strategy, you can probably connect the dots, but holistically you find a pacesetter, we set the pace, other retailers want to jump on board. And now what's happening now everyone is saying, how do I do that? You can give me X amount of pallets and X amount of displays and we can talk. So you create demand for your innovation from a retailer perspective. In addition to the consumer pull, you.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Got them to get excited about the potential of growing the category that I think would resonate. No matter what brand you are in the room, if you can explain to a retailer what it's going to do to grow their category, they're going to get it. What company kinds of components were you hoping to get from them to help you better support that and how did you align on that?

[Ryan Reynolds]

We had a lot of debate. Even the physical POS that goes in a store, we wanted to make sure that the narrative and the copy on the brand was vertically integrated from if you watch it on TV to your phone to a store. We wanted that experience to be seamless. So, believe it or not, there were some iterations of physical POs that didn't initially drive the level of connectivity that Janda and the brand teams were looking for. So we did have to pivot. But the retailers have been bought in. I think at this point, what the brand teams have been able to do with this brand, we've gotten a lot more license from retail partners to explore new territories with this brand. That's the most fun part of Goldfish. I can't tell you what's coming, but you can imagine if she's got this vision from where it was to where it is, there's visions for where it can go and that story will continue. So the receptivity has been huge, Sarah, but how we executed it, working with digital teams, physical teams, and making sure there was vertical alignment on how we hit the market that drove the demand significantly. Our trial and repeat numbers, you can probably talk to, that were extremely high above our expectations.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Yeah, I mean, we've already. It's four months into the launch and we've already delivered our plan on this for the year, and we've got three more months to go. So it's off to a really strong. The one other thing I would add on how we sold it in was understanding for innovation, you have to get people to try it and be aware of it. And so one of the things we did is we created display, so pallets in the store, custom for each customer, and then making sure people could find it online. And one of the things we leaned into our Omnichannel partners is really understanding how do you make sure that you're showing up on the digital shelf in the right way. And so sampling for food is something that's like really important. These little sample packs that we have were created based on what the Omni team shared with us. We went to our supply chain team. We need to create these little products so that we can drive sampling online to boost ratings and reviews, to get above the line on the page so that people could actually find it. We got great reviews and ratings, 4.6. And it just boosted our overall kind of shelf health. So it was the combination. It wasn't one or the other, it was the. And that we did in terms of lifting.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I guess a statistic I could share is our online penetration of this brand at a particular retailer is probably two, two and a half times our overall online penetration.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

That's pretty impressive. So if you think about. Let's take out the crisps launch from the red thread for a moment. Because one of the challenges, when you've got so many new, bright, shiny objects that you get to play with, you know, there's a lot of levers that you can pull. You've got, you know, like you said, you were talking about, like, how do you get the sampling out and how do you make the internal machinations work? Which is freaking hard. I think everybody here knows how freaking hard that is. When you start thinking about the external things. You know, you guys are obviously, you're responsible for icons, ionic, brands. There are vendors that are coming to you with like all these new things. Media companies coming to you with all these new things. How do you filter what's worth it to you to take a meeting? And how can you fix your own signal to noise ratio with all the changing things that are happening?

[Rachel Tippograph]

It's really exciting to be honest. And it is hard because there are so many things that are out there in terms of platforms and technology. I think the thing that we try to do, which is also hard, but is to just be very disciplined and focused. So what are we trying to solve? And always asking ourselves that question. And then what are we trying to solve? And then what is the right technology and or platform that's going to help us solve that particular problem or opportunity? And then we look at the cost factor. You know, you have to look at cost. How much is it going to cost? Is it going to deliver the return and then the cost? Sometimes we don't think about as much, but we try to do this. Is the cost to the organization, meaning do we have the right structure and talent and capability to leverage this new technology and platform and being very disciplined about that as well. But it all goes back to what are we Trying to solve and is this the right technology or platform to do it? Mike, if you have other thoughts, I.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Think that's 100% right. I do think too, Sarah, there's some type. Sometimes there's a time to lead, a time to follow, and sometimes something in between and depending on the brands and what we're trying to do. Not all brands are created equal within our portfolio. So if we have brands that are going to respond differently to price versus some other things, these are commercial decisions and choices that we have to look at. Yeah, my inbox and LinkedIn and how they're getting my work email address, I don't know. I get more emails for services in data and it's overwhelming. So what I try to do is just get through the clutter, delete them. If it's important enough, it finds its way back in there, believe me. And over time, you go through a lot of meetings like this, you learn constantly and you test and if you test, you keep fueling that. I think the challenge we all have is the overall edible consumption is going to grow low single digits from now until 2028. That's the projections. So the consumer dynamics are shifting, but we're not getting people eating more food. So how you move the money in the P&Ls to be able to unlock learning and capability is still a challenge we have to work through together.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

How do you think about not just within your, you know, what's coming into your inbox, which now I'm like, so.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I delete your emails.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I was gonna say, you don't delete my emails. You actually write back. And now I'm.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It says red. Sarah Hofstadter, Board of Directors.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Like, you know, there are other chief commercial officers that write back to me too. Just saying when we think about alignment of interest, one thing that the retailers have over, let's just say other media players is they are the point of conversion. There's a much more commercial alignment of that. So when they've got data that they can, let's say, offer you or sell you versus other players that can offer you and sell you different data, how do the two of you align on that? As you know, Jandy, you gotta be thinking about both, obviously the customer, but a lot of your day is thinking about the consumer and their path towards that whole thing. As those options of where and how to get that data come into play, how do you guys even align on. Hey, is this a good use of our. What's the multiplier effect? Sorry, I completely ignored the script. Forgive me, I'm so sorry.

[Rachel Tippograph]

We prepared for the.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

That.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was a long question. I have to try to digest it.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Sorry.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So how do you other two of.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

You align on like. Great question, great question, great question.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Okay, so. No, it's a very, very good question. I think first and foremost, building transparency with your retail partners on all the costs that it's entailing to do business today, whether it's data monetization, retail media, traditional shopper marketing efforts, supply chain efficiency programs, logistics efficiency programs. There's so many different value streams now that are taking place across retailers that the most important thing I think we need to do is bring that level of transparency so that we know where all the money is, number one. And you assume that they do. They don't. So bringing that transparency to me is very important. Then before we start talking about new money, we say, are the, the money we're spending across all of these different value streams driving a return for both of us? This is your money. It's our money too. Is it working? We have the right to decide because everyone jumps to new money before you even understand how the old money is being spent. I think when it comes to data and partnership with brand, we've got work to do. I mean, so instead of saying, we got this one figured out, we don't. We buy a lot of data today, we have a lot of data from retailers. I go as far to say I think we can do a better job of synchronizing that data and harmonizing all the way up through the commercial functions. A lot of our sales folks still mine traditional retail data in our category management functions, but we're starting to flirt around path to purchase and modalities and how the lines are getting more gray, and maybe we should start to think differently about that. But when it comes to specific targeting using retail media customization, you know, I think that's where we have to just get a lot more intimate with the teams on how we democratize this data. And we've got work to do there. I don't think we've got it figured.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Out and we disagree a lot. And it's okay because we want to work to grow the business and make it easier and more seamless for consumers. And we're still trying to figure it out.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

First of all, the vulnerability is totally a strength because if you can't actually acknowledge that this stuff is hard and that it. And frankly, I guess my bigger question is, when is it the time to decide, you know what, we need to rethink this like that was working really well. For now, after this meeting, we've got.

[Rachel Tippograph]

A car ride together. So we're going to have some of that conversation.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I think these conversations are going to naturally start to have to take place because after all the inflation that the industry has experienced, combined with wages and other input costs staying elevated, no one's PNLs are happy right now. Right. So, I mean, we're never satisfied to begin with. That's one thing we definitely commercially align on. We always want to be better. I think we do a great job. I think we can all be better. Our retailers PNLs are hurting right now. Their labor costs, their input costs are high. There was a lot of trades been removed from all of our industries two years ago. Now that's getting injected back in. As good as that is to drive growth, it doesn't help retailer margins. I think now more than ever, this transparency of investment costs across our businesses, it has to happen. We have to have it. Because there isn't any more money for all of us to go find to invest in these different types of strategies.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Let me ask a loaded question. Where does the line exist between consumer and shopper marketing?

[Ryan Reynolds]

It's a great question. I mean, I'll give you the 1985 answer and then maybe Janet can modernize it. I think.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I certainly hope so.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, listen, look, the old school way was the old traditional path to purchase was who is she using gender, by the way, purposefully, where does she live, what's her household income, Is she married? Where does she shop, what does she buy when she goes there, and how often does she make the trip? And then your strategies were built around trying to intercept that path to purchase. Today it's who are they? Are they married? How do they shop? The word how was never in the traditional path to purchase. It was linear. It was a grocery store. That's where you went. You went to a grocery store or somewhere else. The how has spawned the path to purchase into so many different strategies that I think the lines now have to intersect. I don't think it's as black and white as the consumer who's eating it might be different than the person buying it. You know, that was the old 1985 answer.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Well, that was the pet food, right?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

You know, the person who's buying it is definitely not the person who's eating it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Right. So today it's different. Today you can specifically target the people that eat your food and get them to buy your food online. And I think about the acceleration of E commerce. It's a lot like fishing with sonar. You know, the old school was you put the best bait you could on your line, you throw it in the ocean, you hope to God you get the right fish. Today we got sonar. We know where the fish are, we know what kind of bait they like, we know how deep the ocean is and we know exactly where to cast the line. So that's what's changed for me and the ability for her and us to partner, to specifically conquest people. We want target the right consumers, use data in the right way. That's what's changed. So I think this commercial partnership, we do like each other, by the way. We drove two hours in the car on the way here and we're gonna drive two hours on the way home, I hope. But I think that partnership is.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

We're not done yet.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We're not done yet. Well, that's where the transparency is. But it's something that we have to continue. This is probably a good debate amongst.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Us, right, Because Shopper sits in Mike's organization and consumer sits in the marketing organization. But our teams work together and so there's a healthy amount of tension all the time, but it blurs. And we debate a lot on budgets and P&Ls that can't support like the stronger investment. Like how do we get smarter with the investment that we do have?

[Sarah Hofstadter]

You've got your power brands, your goldfish is of the world. And then you've got the ones that don't necessarily get as much love and support. I'm not going to say what they are because we don't talk about them. I'm not going to tell you which ones they are because they get so complex.

[Rachel Tippograph]

It's just different kinds of support. That's each brand gets a different kind of love.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

So how do you think about the. What is an always on look like for a brand that doesn't necessarily give it as much love? Love and promotional support. How do you think about that differently from ones that do?

[Rachel Tippograph]

Well, I think it's first, you know, feed the ones that are going to deliver the most growth and that are the most responsive and that are ones that are the most broadly available and distributed. So they get the full kind of spectrum of support and then they're underneath that. I mean, there's probably three or four of those that we have in our portfolio. And then the others, they're all very unique. And so some of them may be more responsive to trade promotion and then we may want to invest more there. Some of them are regionally based so we don't have big national kind of investment, but we have targeted shopper support based on a region to really support that business. Some of them are more price pack driven as well. So how do we expand households through different pack formats and different sizes for different budgets. So it just depends on the business overall. But we try to make sure first we feed the ones that are going to help us deliver the most growth. Goldfish is the one that's at the top for us. It's a billion dollar business and it's been delivering strong, almost double digit growth on a two year basis. So we are continuing to fuel it. It's large, it's profitable, it's widely distributed and it's a really important part of our business.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

So I'm going to get to our famous last question. What is the bravest thing you've ever done?

[Rachel Tippograph]

Okay, I'll give a little context, I'll try to be brief, but I grew up in a really small town in Southern Virginia, have one stoplight, and I lived outside of town. I was a history major, undergrad, liberal arts degree. I had never traveled outside of the United States. And when I graduated from college, this wasn't brave at the time, but in retrospect it was kind of. I got on a plane and flew to South Korea and lived there for a year teaching English. I didn't know anyone there, I didn't know where I was going, but I did it. And that was probably one of the best experiences I ever had. I learned a lot about myself, but I learned a lot about my own culture too. That was probably one of the bravest things I ever did.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

That's pretty brave. Pearson, what you got?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Besides sitting on a live panel with a member of our board of directors?

[Sarah Hofstadter]

You're so not cool.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Listen, I think probably the bravest thing I've ever done, I'm a boomerang at Campbell's. So I used to work at Pepperidge Farm up in Connecticut from 2013 to almost the end of 2016. And I had what you would say, an atypical, hopefully predicted career path. Things were good, no reason to change anything. Don't break it. It's not broken. And what do I do? I resign and I decide to go start a snack food innovation company with three partners. It was a true startup. So when I meet people who are like, yeah, I work in a startup, we do 50 million in sales, I'm like, that's not a startup, we do 0 million in sales. So our startup is, what do you name the company? How Are we going to get paid? And we're designing pallet patterns with duct tape on the carpet? Like, that was a startup. We're weighing food on weights and scales to fill out new item forms. This was a real startup. That was probably the bravest thing. But when I came back to Campbell's afterwards, I got asked this question, question on, well, what did I learn? And I think, like Janice said, she learned a lot about our culture. And for me, a I learned tolerance. Where is my risk tolerance? What am I really willing to do and not willing to do? I learned about speed. So if you sit in a commercial meeting, you can call the BS on how fast you could bring a product from concept to shelf. We can do it in 90 days. In my startup, I'm sure nobody in this room can say they can do innovation in 90 days. The other thing I learned was about asking for the order again and being hungry. So when you are getting paid, like most of us in this room, to sell something or transact something, and sales is the definition of is an exchange in value. My job, I had to sell to get paid. It was a different muscle. So I had to roll my chair up to a buyer's desk. I'm like, hey, I just worked at peppered farm in PepsiCo. I don't give a crap where you work. Like, who are you and what's your product? I'm like, oh, my God, this is what my salespeople do. Like, this is amazing. But I was begging for the order because I knew if they put the order in on Friday and we shipped it in seven days and they paid the bill 15 days later, I can go home and tell my wife we can get paid on May 3rd. And the mortgage was due May 15th. And I had four children at the time, so that was the bravest thing I ever did. So.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

And clearly something that both of you have learned from. So can we give a round of applause to these guys? Just on a very personal note? Like, these guys have. I mean, Jan and I have known since well before I was on the board. And Mike, I've gotten to know since. And I will say one of the best things is the transparency that happens. And it is refreshing to have candid conversations where we just say, like, here are the things that are working. Here are the things that are not working. Here's what we got to figure out. Like, who can help us figure that out? And it's just. Just been an absolute pleasure working with the two of you and your teams. And it's just. I'm so blessed. So thank you. All right, well, if you liked this episode, we have other dynamic duos we think you should listen to. Most recently, coming live to you from another very exciting venue, Almost as exciting as Brave Commerce Live coming to you from Cannes, Amy Benford and Diana Housling from Colgate. Or you can go back to the archives and listen to Kate Crowley and Luke Sabir from Lego. And if you want a third because you just can't get enough of Brave Commerce about Diego Palmieri and Neha Malik from Nizcan. If you like this episode, please share. Tell a friend, leave us a review, let us know what you think on LinkedIn and we'll see you again soon.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Only Boost Mobile will give you a free year of service when you buy a new 5G phone.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Oh, like a BOGO.

[Rachel Tippograph]

A BOGO.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Buy one, get one BOGO.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Well, technically it's buy one phone, get one year. So BOP goy.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ah, bop goy. Get the Boost Mobile. Bop goy.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Deal Bop goy with Boost Mobile.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Bob goy. Bob goy. Bob goy.

[Ryan Reynolds]

This is the best idea we've ever had. When you purchase an eligible device, you get $25 off every month for 12 months, with credits totaling one year of free service. Tax is extra for the device and service plan online only.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek podcast. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.