Congo Brands’ Wendell Venerable on the Power of Execution in a Shiny Object World

Summary

BRAVE COMMERCE – Congo Brands’ Wendell Venerable on the Power of Execution in a Shiny Object World

Host: Adweek (Rachel Tipograph & Sarah Hofstetter)
Guest: Wendell Venerable, VP of E-Commerce, Congo Brands
Date: September 16, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the realities of execution in eCommerce amidst constant distractions and “shiny objects.” Wendell Venerable, VP of E-Commerce at Congo Brands, draws on experiences from giants like Nestlé and Reckitt to hot upstarts, emphasizing the enduring significance of operational fundamentals, regardless of trends, company size, or technological hype. The discussion unpacks best practices, evolving digital strategies, and staying laser-focused—plus a personal and heartfelt close as Wendell reflects on bravery in life and work.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The True Mark of an eCommerce Expert

Timestamps: 02:44–04:50

• The hosts note a clear distinction between “thought leaders” and hands-on executors in commerce.
• Rachel sets up the conversation:

  “When we get people on the show that are so focused on execution, no buzzwords, no fluff... they demonstrate that they get in there to the guts of the organization... roll up their sleeves.” (03:24, Rachel Tipograph)

• Sarah remarks on the value of pragmatic operators, not just visionaries:

  “When it comes to people who have commerce in their title, you never know... We actually need to have more people like Wendell on the show.” (03:46, Sarah Hofstetter)

---

2. Wendell’s Career Journey & Crucial Inflection Points

Timestamps: 05:13–08:50

• Wendell recounts his progression: starting with Reckitt, where digital commerce operated in silos (different buyers for dot.com vs. in-store).
• Learned first-hand about brick-and-click synergies evolving into omnichannel priorities.
• Navigated transformation during COVID—resisted “coasting” on natural growth, instead doubled down on operational innovation e.g., understanding supply chain, creative, retail media.
• Key lesson:

  “It was all about how am I feeding the algorithm and really driving our performance outside of just listing items and promoting.” (08:10, Wendell Venerable)

• Fundamental principle: Relentless refinement of execution across all operational areas.

---

3. Post-Pandemic eCommerce: Marketplace Change & Competition

Timestamps: 08:50–10:12

• Wendell observes more competition, higher costs—a “pay to play” environment.
• Mature brands: focus shifts from pure growth to sustainable profitability, managing investments, and marketplace mix.
• Cleanup initiatives: “gating” third-party sellers, solving pain points faced at larger organizations.
• Key advice:

  “I’m a big believer that—staying fine-tuned in execution, things change over time, but your framework shouldn’t change too much.” (09:50, Wendell Venerable)

---

4. eCommerce Team Structures: What Really Matters?

Timestamps: 12:34–14:29

• Host Rachel brings up a perennial debate: “How should eCommerce teams be organized?”
• Wendell’s evolved perspective:

  “I just don’t get too caught up in org charts because ecomm spans so much... The most important thing is you need someone at the helm who truly owns e-commerce strategy across all those elements.” (12:54, Wendell Venerable)

• Focus should be on unified execution, regardless of reporting lines or structure.
• Mistake to treat eCommerce as an “add-on” rather than an integrated, cross-functional discipline.

---

5. The Future of eCommerce Roles

Timestamps: 14:29–16:53

• Sarah provocatively asks how he avoids “out-integrating” himself out of a job.
• Wendell: As digital becomes further embedded in commerce, subject-matter expertise will always be needed.

  “In the long term, I’ll get more added to my plate ... I think there won’t be eCommerce down the line, there will just be commerce.” (14:46, Wendell Venerable)

• Sarah underscores Wendell’s strengths: cross-functional, multilingual, influence-led leadership:

  “You are exceptionally curious and you do sweat the details and you are the kind of person that looks around corners to say what’s next. Whether that has an E in front or not is actually irrelevant.” (15:39, Sarah Hofstetter)

---

6. Staying Ahead: Filtering “Shiny Objects” vs. Nailing the Fundamentals

Timestamps: 18:24–23:12

• Wendell sources industry intelligence from platforms like Profitero, PACV, LinkedIn, and peer networks.
• Admits: “There’s always a lot of new shiny objects and buzzwords... I try to stay grounded in the fundamentals.” (18:53, Wendell Venerable)
• On industry’s obsession with things like Generative Engine Optimization (GEO):

  “Everyone’s going around in circles just spending way too much time on this... it’s really just fine tuning what you should be doing already.” (20:12, Wendell Venerable)

• Approaches buzzwords and trends with pragmatic skepticism—asks if they truly require a change in framework or merely tactical adjustments.

---

7. Hot Topics: GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) and Agentic Shopping

Timestamps: 20:04–23:43

• GEO, like previous SEO trends, is important only if it changes core consumer or platform behavior in a fundamental way.
• On agentic shopping:

  “I think it’s noise as of right now... unless you see something that radically changes how you execute...” (21:18, Wendell Venerable)

• Ultimate test: will new trends materially change what eComm leaders need to do?
• Sarah:

  “You’re basically reverse engineering this agentic conversation against what needs to be true for me to do my job.” (22:23, Sarah Hofstetter)

• Implements tech advancements only if they deliver clear competitive advantage or efficiency.

---

8. Back to Basics: The KISS Principle

Timestamps: 23:43–23:56

• Rachel emphasizes, and Wendell agrees: “Keep it simple, stupid” (KISS principle) endures.
• All the latest tech should be distilled to action against business fundamentals.

---

9. Bravery and Leadership—Personal Moment

Timestamps: 23:56–26:28

• The hosts’ signature close: “What’s the bravest thing you’ve done?”
• Wendell delivers a heartfelt answer: fatherhood.
• He reflects on holding true to his values, the responsibility and courage required to bring children into today’s world, and the deep meaning found in parenting.
• Memorable story: he prepared for fatherhood decades in advance—even collecting sneakers and picking names in high school.

  “Fatherhood... that's the most important thing in life that means more than anything we've talked about thus far. So that's the bravest thing I've done.” (25:16, Wendell Venerable)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It’s all about providing value to the organization... at the end of the day, I’m here to drive the business. The bureaucracy, all that stuff, it’s irrelevant.”
  — Wendell Venerable (18:20)

• “If you’re optimizing your content to drive conversion... and you’re including the right elements, if you’re updating your backend as you should be—fundamentally, what really changes for GEO?... It's really just fine tuning what you should be doing already.”
  — Wendell Venerable (20:12)

• “There won’t be eCommerce down the line, there will just be commerce."
  — Wendell Venerable (14:46)

• “The famous framework KISS: Keep it simple, stupid. It applies to all business, no matter what’s going on in the ecosystem.”
  — Rachel Tipograph (23:43)

---

Useful Timestamps

• Defining expertise and execution: 02:44–04:50
• Career inflection points: 05:13–08:50
• Post-pandemic marketplace shifts: 08:50–10:12
• Organizational design for eCommerce: 12:34–14:29
• The job (r)evolution of eCommerce leads: 14:29–16:53
• Staying current and filtering hype: 18:24–23:12
• On GEO and agentic shopping: 20:04–23:43
• Bravery and fatherhood: 23:56–26:28

---

Tone & Takeaways

Wendell Venerable's approach is humble, pragmatic, and execution-focused. He pushes for substance over style, never losing sight of the “boring fundamentals” that actually move the needle in commerce. Both hosts laud Wendell for his curiosity, humility, and leadership by influence—not ego.

For listeners:
If you want a “no-fluff” examination of running—and leading—eCommerce in a constantly evolving landscape, this episode is a masterclass on why doing the basics brilliantly is the bravest thing of all.

---

Transcript

[Base 44 Advertiser]

Picture the app you've been dreaming about. Now imagine it's real and ready to launch before Today's over. Meet base 44 the fastest way to bring your ideas to life without writing a single line of code. Just describe what you want to create and watch it take shape instantly. The design comes together, the features are built and the backend is ready to go. No technical setup, no juggling tools, no waiting on anyone. A real product, fully working, ready to share, test or from idea to live app Fast Start building [e-mail] you just.

[Indeed Advertiser]

Realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. How can you find amazing candidates fast? Easy. Just use Indeed. Stop struggling to get your job posts seen on other job sites. With Indeed Sponsored Jobs, your post jumps to the top of the page for your relevant candidates so you can reach the people you want faster. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on indeed have 45% more applications than non sponsored Jobs. Don't wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed and listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit. To get your jobs more visibility@ Indeed.com podKatz13 just go to Indeed.com podcast Katz13 right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Experian Advertiser]

Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms with over 2,400 pre built audiences. There's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more at experian.com adweek that's E-P-E-R-I-A-N.com adweek.

[Wendell Venerable]

Everyone'S going around in circles just spending way too much time on this in my opinion. If you're optimizing your content to drive conversion with your consumer, align to their path to purchase and decision tree and you're including the right elements for that. If you're updating your backend as you should be, fundamentally what really changes for geo, because that's all the stuff that the GEO is picking up. You might need to implement AI to understand what it's looking for to then update your approach. But in my opinion it's not some huge thing that we need to be spending weeks and months talking about and developing these robust strategies. It's really just fine tuning what you should be doing already.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Welcome to today's episode of Creative commerce.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I'm Rachel Tippograph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

And I'm Sarah Hofstadter, chairwoman of Profitero Plus.

[Rachel Tippograph]

And this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, I feel like there is a very clear line in the sand of when we feel like we have a true expert on the show. You and I feel it right away together.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Is it like porn? You know it when you see it.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I mean, I don't know why you just went there.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Clickbait, ma'. Am.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I think simply put, when we get people on the show that are so focused on execution, no buzzwords, no fluff, like, they come in and they demonstrate that they get in there to the guts of the organization, you know, reverse engineer it and roll up their sleeves, work hand in hand with the team, not sit in an ivory tower and look.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I think one of the wonderful things that I love about the podcast is that sometimes we get a view from the top, which would be the C suite. We have CEOs that join us and give us their perspective. And it's very important for us to get the view from the top. But when it comes to people who have, let's say, commerce in their title, you never know. Are you going to get somebody who's more of a thought leader and somebody who can talk a good game versus somebody who like getting their hands dirty, if you will. Each of those three is valuable in their own way, but I think we actually need to have more people like Wendell on the show once you get back from mat leave. Let's make ourselves a note on that one. Yeah.

[Rachel Tippograph]

And I would say one of the things that's so clear about him is that no matter which way the wind blows, what's in vogue in a certain period of time, he is completely focused on nailing the fundamentals.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

When you come from companies as big as Rektt or as small as Congo Brands, the fundamentals still reign true, regardless of where your job is.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Well, on that note, let's bring Wendell onto the show.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Today. We are happy and honored to have Wendell venerable vice president of E Commerce at Congo Brands. And overall, just pretty smart freaking guy. Welcome to the show, Wendell.

[Wendell Venerable]

Awesome. Thank you for having me and thank you for the kind words. I'm looking forward to speaking with you both today.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

We are super stoked. I did introduce you by the parent company. Can you just help our listeners understand what is Congo Brands for sure.

[Wendell Venerable]

So at Congo, we currently manage three brands in our portfolio. Alani Nutrition, which we just sold to Celsius Prime Hydration and Lunchly, which is a new lunch kit competitor to traditional brands like Lunchables.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

We don't even talk about competitors on the show, dude. But one of the things that has been interesting, you just referenced, you referenced the bigger company, not me. But with that in mind, you have actually had a really interesting career. You've worked at companies as big as Nestle and Reckon a little bit more of a startup vibe, even though not a startup company in Red Bull, but definitely very different vibe. Through that you've had a lot of exposure to how companies approach digital commerce. What were some of those pivotal moments in your career that helped you define your point of view in this role?

[Wendell Venerable]

For starters, I'd say just joining Rekt, that's where I got my start in E commerce. And I think back then retailers like Walmart had separate buyers for dot com, and I was calling on between like 12 to 15 buyers at any given time just due to our portfolio and the different categories. And so that was invaluable experience. But then watching, you know, the transition over time from that siloed E comm approach to now, it's more of a truly omnichannel environment. And that kind of gave me a front row seat to see how integrated digital has really become in retail. And if you look at it now, you know, most traditional buyers have digital KPIs, but they often don't have the experience to really navigate them. So that's created a really great opportunity for people like me to sit down with buyers and leadership at these traditional retailers, provide them digital thought leadership, build trust and really elevate the way in which we partner with them. So I'd say that background and that start in brick and click was important for me. And then when I switched over to pure play and started working more deeply with, you know, the Amazons of the world, that's where I really got into the weeds of execution, was able to obsess over our P and L, perfecting our executional levers and really pressure testing, you know, how and where our E commerce framework would come to life in a more mature ecosystem. And then the last thing I'll say is just Covid. During COVID it would have been super easy to just sit back and coast on growth. But our teams and myself in particular, we really leaned in harder. So obviously the initial panic buys, everyone saw huge growth. But then coming out of those panic buys, you know, digital was continuing to grow. Store traffic was down, stores were declining. So we really put our foot on the pedal to drive every case we could for the company. And to do so I knew I had to evolve as an operator and as a leader. The traditional levers you had in E commerce, they weren't really necessary or they weren't required because just the changing landscape. So I had to expand my expertise and really learn in areas outside of the traditional E commercial function like supply chain, creative retail media. And I just took it upon myself with the help of great leaders and cross functional peers to learn as much as I can in those spaces. Because during that time it was all about how am I feeling the algorithm and really driving our performance outside of just like listing items and promoting, you know. And so that kind of just shaped my mindset ever since of like just being relentlessly focused on improving execution in, in every area with the world Now.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I can't believe we're going on like five years post pandemic here. What would you say are the biggest changes like the 2025 Marketplace versus versus when you were in the belly of the beast of the pandemic where it's just like fueling growth. You're obviously working at a company where there is growth but as you know within your overall categories that's not usually the case.

[Wendell Venerable]

Yeah, for sure. So I think there's a lot more competition now. It's a lot more expensive. It is more pay to play in my opinion. And so I think if I was at you know say a Reckon or, or Nestle still where the growth has slowed, I'd be more focused on profitability and really managing my investments to ensure long term sustainable growth. I think there's a lot more players now, but there's also a lot more capabilities. Like there's some interesting things you can do these days that I've heard from my old peers around gating 3P sellers and cleaning up marketplaces because I know that was a big pain point for us at record. But yeah, I think you just got to be more intentional and more strategic and more focused on, on driving profitability, managing your mix, innovating, specific for the channel. I'm a big believer that staying fine tuned and execution things change over time. But I'm a firm believer that like your framework shouldn't change too much. It's more like tactically and executionally. What do you need to do differently as the landscape evolves to continue to drive that framework? Execution.

[Rachel Tippograph]

You sound more like a CEO than a head of E Comm.

[Wendell Venerable]

I'll take that as a compliment.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

It is.

[Wendell Venerable]

I'm just the E Comm guy. That's my running joke at every company I'm at. I'm just the E Comm guy. That's all I'm going to be. Omnisend automates all the busy work for you.

[Base 44 Advertiser]

It can capture customers who abandon their shopping carts, recommend other products based on their purchases, wish them a happy birthday with a personalized offer, or instantly notify them as soon as your best sellers are back in stock. Start free with Omnisend today and keep growing effortlessly, sale after sale.

[Experian Advertiser]

Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms with over 2,400 pre built audiences. There's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more at experian.com adweek that's E-P-E-R-I-A-N.com adweek.

[Trimble Advertiser]

Trimble is the technology company that connects your physical and digital world so industries like transportation and geospatial can get hard work done faster than ever. Every day brings new challenges, decisions, adjustments, real time moments that matter. With Trimble on your team, you're in command of purpose built tech ecosystems and connected solutions that keep work flowing end to end. Turn data points into decision points, deadlines into finish lines, and possibilities into profits. Check out what Trimble can do for [e-mail] because with Trimble, you can act smarter, move faster, and lead with confidence. Trimble Confidence at every turn, think about.

[Wendell Venerable]

The app you've been wanting to build.

[Base 44 Advertiser]

Sell something you've created, run your community, manage your business, or launch your next idea. Now imagine it's live. Before Today's over, meet base 44, the fastest way to turn any idea into a fully functional app. No code, no waiting. Just describe what you want and watch it come together. Backend design and all in minutes. A real product ready to share. From idea to Live App Fast Start building [e-mail].

[Rachel Tippograph]

Because you've worked at companies of different scale as well as maturity and commerce. You know a hot topic on this show is how should E commerce teams be organized? It's usually a debate. So from your perspective, what do you think is the winning team in terms of structure, framework, execution, et cetera?

[Wendell Venerable]

Yeah, this is an interesting one. I think my opinion has changed throughout time depending on where I've been, but I've been in E Comm Team or E Commerce roles that sat within traditional sales teams. I've been in standalone E commerce like business units or I've been in E comm teams that were like their whole vertical within sales. I think now that I've been through all that and I've seen how it works at a few different organizations, I honestly I don't want to say it doesn't matter but I just don't get too caught up in org charts because I think the most important thing is that E comm it spans across so much. It's a melting pot of commercial marketing ops, creative. And I think the most important thing is you need someone at the helm no matter where they sit who truly just like owns e commerce strategy across all those elements. And the person at the helm doesn't need to just create that strategy across all those elements, they need to translate it across the organization and then ensure that execution's aligned. So like ideally I think I'd want all of the teams built to manage all those elements under that E comm leader but if that's not the case I don't really think it matters. I think what's more important is just that the execution is done right and so if all that doesn't sit under that leader and it's their job to influence cross functionally, you know, driving buy in, helping to define roadmaps, make sure that digital stays top of mind across every team. And I think the biggest issue is not so much org charts or hierarchies. I think the biggest issue is like when companies treat E commerce like it's an add on or a silo and it's truly not. It just needs to be integrated into day to day op model like go.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

To market strategy with something like that I'll, I'll be a little provocative. And then if you're just the E comm guy then how do you create sustainable differentiation for yourself?

[Wendell Venerable]

As in my positioning with the org and like leadership?

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Yeah, like how do you not basically out integrate yourself out of a job?

[Wendell Venerable]

Well I think like the expertise is always going to be needed. Right. Over time digital penetration just continues to increase and increase and again it's going to become more and more a part of just traditional commerce. So I don't think I'll ever work myself out of a job because they're going to need my expertise. I think. And again I'm probably not the right guy to answer this because I don't really think too hard about my long term career trajectory which is probably a fault but I think if I Just stay focused on driving results, continuing to learn and grow. In the long term I'll get more added to my plate. Like I'll be managing E comm and traditional retail in the long term as opposed to the industry gets all they need out of me and then I'm just like kicked to the curb. Cause I don't think there will be E commerce down the line. I think there will just be commerce and digital will be such a big portion of it that you'll always need that expertise.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I fully agree. And in fact Rachel and I have recently made an update to our intro and we talked about, we talk about what's relevant in E commerce for the world's biggest brands. We don't say that anymore. We took the E off and I think, I hope you don't mind my saying so, I don't think you're going to be in a kind of a position where you would out integrate yourself out of a job because of your mindset. And I think a lot of that talks the way you were talking about organizational design. You have a mindset that is cross functional, it's multilingual and so, so much about you. Yeah, you have the technical expertise and knowledge and you have the cross organizational knowledge. But honestly I think you know how to lead with influence. You are exceptionally curious and you do sweat the details and you are the kind of person that looks around corners to say what's next. Whether that has an E in front of it or not I think is actually irrelevant. So I hope you don't mind the provocation. But it's actually because I think that the way that you have influenced and executed at the different companies is what makes you so effective regardless of your particular subject matter expertise.

[Wendell Venerable]

I appreciate those kind words. I do think, yeah, I don't normally.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Blow smoke up my guests asses. Just to be clear.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I was shocked just now. I was like wow.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

No, but like legit, like this is why like we were, we were at this dinner and we were talking, I was like this guy has a lot of knowledge to drop. And it's like you're so humble and I'm like no dude, you're like so awesome.

[Wendell Venerable]

I've been blessed to work for some really great leaders. I've always just had a very curious mind where I'm always trying to understand the what, the why and the how. And I've been able to learn from other people and kind of take what works for them and make it my own to make it work for me and just continuing to learn and grow. And so without the people that I came up under, I wouldn't be in this situation. But at the end of the day, it's all about providing value to the organization and the company you work for. And I've been in some organizations where E commerce versus traditional retail kind of turns into a pissing match. Who owns it? Where's the growth coming from? Who wants look good and not, at the end of the day, like, we're all at the same company, we're pushing the same brands and we should have the same goal and that's just pushing the brand forward. So like, that's why I say like org charts and hierarchy and ownership. Yeah, it's nice and cool to put on resumes and stuff, but at the end of the day, I'm here to drive the business. And as long as the business is getting driven, like the bureaucracy, all that stuff, it's irrelevant. Like, I don't want to spend my time on that. That's. That's not what anyone wakes up. And it's like looking forward to at work. I would say so, yeah.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Well, taking us back to executions. And that's where your passion lies. You made a comment when you were working at some of those larger organizations, like, the space has matured and there's even new tools. Here we are, we're recording halfway through 2025. 2025 looks drastically different than we thought it was going to be in January. How do you stay ahead of the change? What news sources? Like, where are you learning what's hot? Where you think the industry is going?

[Wendell Venerable]

Yeah, for sure. So I mean, like through our external partnerships, like Profiteero for example, or like a pacv or any of those external partners that kind of bring the industry news and thought leadership. Staying in tune there. I'm always scouring LinkedIn to see, you know, what the buzz is and just staying up to date with mentors and old peers and whatnot. The landscape is always changing, it's always evolving. And so you got to try to stay ahead of the curve as much as possible. But one thing I'm really intentional about is also like filtering out the noise. There's always a lot of new shiny objects and buzzwords and like, that's what everyone's talking about and that's what all the big leaders at big companies are always preaching about. And I'm just like, I don't know again, maybe I'm not the right guy, but I try to stay grounded in the fundamentals. So how am I continuing to fine tune the Framework in which I execute across E Comm. Driving that execution, staying close to the data, and then as the landscape evolves and new things are developed, literally just asking like, okay, how does this impact my framework or how does my execution need to change to implement this new thing? And so like, one of the good examples was actually at the Profitero event we were at. And like geo, that's like the big thing now and everyone's always talking about it.

[Rachel Tippograph]

You want to just define it for the audience.

[Wendell Venerable]

Yeah, it's like Generative Engine Optimization. I don't know. That's what it is, right? Is that the acronym?

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Got it.

[Wendell Venerable]

Yeah. So like, you know how SEO was the big thing now it's like, oh, how are you being top of mind with the AIs? And it's like everyone's going around in circles, just spending way too much time on this. In my opinion. Fundamentally, what changes? If you're optimizing your content to drive conversion with your consumer aligned to their path to purchase and decision tree and you're including the right elements for that, if you're updating your backend, as you should be, fundamentally, what really changes for geo? Because that's all the stuff that the GEO is picking up. You might need to implement AI to understand what it's looking for to then update your approach. But in my opinion, it's not some huge thing that we need to be spending weeks and months talking about and developing these robust strategies. It's really just fine tuning what you should be doing already, since you have.

[Rachel Tippograph]

A pretty strong framework to filter out the noise. You talked about Generative Engine Optimization. The other hot word in the space is agentic shopping. What's your opinion on agentic shopping? Noise or strategically, something that you're going to have to think about over the next five years.

[Wendell Venerable]

I'm going to say this is the first time I've heard of it and the first time I'm thinking about it. So I'll just, you know, shoot from the hip on this one. If I was going to bet on it, I think it's noise as of right now. Again, I think even if it becomes true, unless you see something that radically changes how you execute, like what would a robot pick up? In my opinion, it would pick up. The copy on your page might scrape the images, the ratings and reviews, the backend taxonomy and keywords and all that stuff. And so again, before AI became a thing, all of those components I just named are things you should have been obsessing over and optimizing. And so if you're doing that the right way, align to the important decisions of path to purchase in your category and the traffic in your category, what fundamentally changes. I could be wrong. I could be 100% wrong. And like, if I am, I'll be the first to admit it. But again, I don't think it's some thing we need to be frantically, you know, obsessing over and building all these shiny PowerPoints and discussions about it. I think it's just fine tune your execution the way you should have been doing the whole time.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

I think that's healthy because I think there's a big difference between all those different things that you talked about just now are things that Rachel and I need to sweat over, because we gotta go figure out how to provide that to you in a more effective, efficient way and figure out how you use automation, AI or anything like that in order to be able to serve up the information to you so you can make better, faster decisions. I think what you're saying is we go back to the fundamentals and so you're basically reverse engineering this agentic conversation against what needs to be true for me to be able to do my job. And whether you get that to me through AI or agentic or a robot, or a bunch of people offshore typing stuff in, it doesn't really matter to you. You just got to get that stuff. You need to make a decision that is competitively advantaged.

[Wendell Venerable]

And like, with the whole SEO versus GEO thing, right, like, we used to do checks of like, hey, what are the most important keywords I need to make sure I'm including in my copy? With Geo, it's just like, go on these different AIs and ask them, hey, what's the best? In my case, what's the best hydration drink? Or what's the best sports drink? All right, what was the criteria you used to make that decision? And then based on that, now I know what I need to update in my copy. Nothing we do is rocket science, in my opinion. Like, it's relatively easy. You just gotta stay grounded.

[Rachel Tippograph]

The famous framework kiss. Keep it simple, stupid. It applies to all business, no matter what's going on in the ecosystem. Yeah, well, we gotta ask you our famous last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?

[Wendell Venerable]

Yeah. There's no one moment or event in my life where I'm just like, screaming bravery. I'm a guy that has a set morals and value system, and I like, refuse to compromise that for anything. I think that's very Brave within itself. But outside of that, honestly, fatherhood. You know, I've always wanted to be a father. I've always wanted to have two boys. It was at the point where, like, in high school, I had their names picked out. In college, I started a shoe collection for them because I knew I'd have them one day. And then, just the way the world has been going, you know, most of my adult life, I was starting to question, like, hey, is this, is this really something I should do? Should I bring kids into this world? Because I believe, like, having. Creating life is a very selfish act. Like, no one asks to be born. So if I'm gonna bring life into this world, it's my responsibility to make sure I'm doing everything I can for them, to make sure they're loved, they're healthy, they're happy. And I just wasn't sure if this is the world where I should be doing that. But fast forward a few years. I've got my two boys. I got lucky, batted 102 for two. They're three and two. My wife and I are extremely happy. They've obviously completely changed our life. And while there's no playbook for being a perfect parent, all we could do is, like, show up for them every day. And that's what we do. And for me, that's the most important thing in life that means more than anything we've talked about thus far. So that's the bravest thing I've done.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

We've got a future, mommy. As the co host of the podcast and spoiler alert, it's not me. I think this is a fantastic way to send Rachel into her new chapter. And I don't know, Rachel, have you been stocking up on shoes?

[Rachel Tippograph]

Listen, I'm blown away that you've been collecting shoes. And then my follow up question is, did your wife agree to the two names that you dreamt of many moons ago?

[Wendell Venerable]

She did. She threw in some middle names to bring her family, like, lineage into it. But yeah, no, she agreed. Funny story. I'll just tell you real quick. So all the men in my family have the same first name. And so we all kind of go by our middle names. And I don't know why I have three of them.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

One second. So which one is the one that we're talking to right now?

[Wendell Venerable]

Like which number? Wendell. Am I? Yeah, I honestly couldn't tell you. There's too many. But none of us are like juniors because we all have different middle names. Yeah, I have three middle names and two of them I was like, I want each of my sons to have one each.

[Sarah Hofstadter]

Oh, that's got a lot of meaning.

[Wendell Venerable]

Yeah. Yeah. And then we threw in an additional middle name for the men on her side of the family. And then yeah, here we are.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I love that. Well, this could not have been more aptly timed. I totally agree with Sarah. Thank you for allowing us to pick your brain.

[Wendell Venerable]

Of course. Thank you for having me. I hope all the rambling is valuable for someone who's listening. And yeah, would love to do it again someday.

[Rachel Tippograph]

If you like what you heard and you want to check out another podcast guest that is completely focused on the fundamentals, go check out Jenna Steele from Riboli Wines and Please share on LinkedIn. Tell a friend thanks for listening.

[Experian Advertiser]

Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms. With over 2,400 pre built audiences, there's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more at experian.com adweek that's E-P-E-R-I-A N.com adweek.

[Base 44 Advertiser]

Think about the app you've been wanting to build, sell something you've created, run your community, manage your business, or launch your next idea. Now imagine it's live. Before Today's over, meet base 44. The fastest way to turn any idea into a fully functional app. No code, no waiting. Just describe what you want and watch it come together. Backend design and all in minutes. A real product ready to share. From idea to live app fast. Start building [e-mail].

[Jackie Cooper]

Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek page Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.