← BRAVE COMMERCE
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- [00:00]
Andrea Steele
If you're listening to this, you're ready Ready to join the Industrial Intelligence generation. A generation defined not by age, but by a shared mindset to connect teams, accelerate efficiency and drive innovation. Using the power of Aviva software to reshape industries, turning real time insights into real world growth. Discover our stories@industrialintelligence.com join Generation I AI.
- [00:30]
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- [01:14]
Experian Advertiser
Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms. With over 2,400 pre built audiences, there's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more@experian.com Adweek that's exp e r I a n.com Adweek.
- [01:46]
Sarah Hofstadter
You have to.
- [01:46]
Andrea Steele
Find those upstream processes. You can't just put it in at the end user, just in the E Commerce center of Excellence. You've got to get all the way back up into your product lifecycle management process, your brand strategy guides. You got to get all the way up into your IDP processes. You really have to make sure that you are embedding it into those big business processes to make it work and to make it stick. And then lastly, got to measure it. Got to make sure that what you said you're going to do happens. And you got to make sure you're optimizing, leveraging those metrics and then celebrate it if it works. Because those celebrations, they might seem like an afterthought, but that's what kind of keeps that wheel of excitement.
- [02:25]
Rachel Tippograph
Welcome to today's episode of Brave Commerce. I'm Rachel Tippograph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.
- [02:31]
Sarah Hofstadter
And I'm Sarah Hofstadter, chairwoman of Profitero plus, and this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands.
- [02:46]
Rachel Tippograph
Sarah, I feel like it's tough times for CPG and The back half of the year ain't looking that great.
- [02:53]
Sarah Hofstadter
You know, one could say that it's been tough times for CPG ever since everybody got the vaccine, right? Like, it's been tough times because of labor, it's been tough times because of supply. It's been tough times because of the Ukraine war, It's been tough times because of inflation. There's always something. And it's funny, we say, you know, cpg. We don't say this, but some people say, you know, CPG has been doing the same thing for a gazillion years. I would say the exact opposite over the past few. Why? Because the headwinds and the tailwinds are coming from all over the places. You get this Covid tailwind, you get the supply headwind. Like it's a little bit of whiplash. So the question is, is there growth in cpg or are we just heading into just another set of headwinds?
- [03:42]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, I know you have a perspective on the answer to that question. So is there growth?
- [03:48]
Sarah Hofstadter
Well, look, I mean, you can make the answer however you want to make the answer. As a public board member of two CPGs, I want to say, yippee. There's so much growth. I think it's more about where. Where the growth is coming from. And if you look at different CPGs, they're finding their growth coming from different areas. The ones who really are struggling are the ones that are using the same recipe over and over and over again. But if you look for the pockets of growth in the US 76% of US CPG growth came from E Commerce. Is E commerce getting the amount of time and attention that would come along with that kind of a growth rate?
- [04:31]
Rachel Tippograph
Is that incremental growth or just a channel shift?
- [04:34]
Sarah Hofstadter
Well, it's the growth that has come from CPG in general. 76% of that came from E Comm. So that's all net new incremental. That's not ceiling. Walmart's online grocery sales are up 20% year over year. $59 billion.
- [04:52]
Rachel Tippograph
It's a whole lot of avocados.
- [04:55]
Sarah Hofstadter
It's a whole lot of Mac and cheese. For today's episode. It's a whole lot of ketchup, if you ask me. But I think when you start looking at it, the question is whether or not there's growth. I mean, it is a very important question. But is if you're looking for growth, are you looking in the right places? Are you looking at new channels like TikTok Shop, or are you looking at the Changes in consumer behavior? Are you reverse engineering things from the perspective of the consumer? Are you changing the way you look at the customer? And I would say Andrea Steele is one of those people that just nails it. She cuts through the BS to be able to point to where the birth is coming from.
- [05:36]
Rachel Tippograph
And I think just simply put, she's a glass half full person and she constantly is looking for bright lights within, you know, really tough situations.
- [05:45]
Sarah Hofstadter
Yeah, but not a blind glass half full kind of a person.
- [05:48]
Rachel Tippograph
No, no, no, no, no.
- [05:49]
Sarah Hofstadter
Sorry. I get so skeptical when people say they're a glass half wool person. I'm like, they're in rainbow and unicorn lands. But no, there's a practicality about what she brings.
- [05:57]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, on that note, let's bring our dear friend Andrea onto the show.
- [06:02]
Sarah Hofstadter
Today. We are thrilled to have Andrea Steele and AVP of E Commerce and Customer Marketing at Kraft Heinz. And today we are recording live mostly from Chicago, Illinois. Andrea, thank you so much for joining us today.
- [06:17]
Andrea Steele
Thank you for having me.
- [06:18]
Sarah Hofstadter
It has been a long time coming.
- [06:21]
Rachel Tippograph
Yeah, I'm actually shocked we haven't had you on before, and for that I want to apologize.
- [06:26]
Andrea Steele
Okay. I was telling Sarah last night that I always joke that I have a voice for print.
- [06:32]
Sarah Hofstadter
So you have a voice for print and I have a voice for podcasting.
- [06:35]
Andrea Steele
So I'm excited to be here, though. We're all good at being great. Yeah, exactly.
- [06:40]
Sarah Hofstadter
We're step inside our comfort zone. It's going to be great for all of us. And the beauty is the reason we want to do on the podcast, whether it was years ago or now, is just every time you speak, I'm just trying to keep up and I feel like more people need to hear how you think and almost like how your brain works. Okay. I've done enough building it up. I still don't think you will disappoint. So Rachel and I, at minimum, have known you from your time at Hershey and your time here and Unilever. You guys know each other from Unilever? Yeah, whatever. But one thing that has been consistent is your ability to scale ecosystems. And those can be online, offline, CRM, media analytics. But in every instance, there's always a new factor, something that is not a muscle that the organization knows as well as others. How do you introduce something new into complex organizations? And many of them have been around for a really long time with really embedded ways of working.
- [07:42]
Andrea Steele
Yeah, I've been at it for a little while, so I've been doing this piece of embedding new capabilities and Building new capabilities for over 13 years now at big CPG companies. And so it's, it is not easy, but it's really rewarding when you can get in there, get into the plumbing and actually make it stick and make it work. So what I've found is that there are five tips, let's call them to success in embedding capabilities in big CBT organizations. The first is don't think about the capability. So very much a proponent of no tech for tech's sake, no capabilities for capability's sake. Have to start with the business strategy and not the e commerce strategy or the digital strategy. What is the business strategy and what we're trying to achieve for the company overall. That's where you have to find home base and within that what are the consumer journeys necessary to achieve that business strateg. So number one, business strategy and consumer, then number two, you can build that capability roadmap. And that second tip or step is really around prioritization because I think there's many people who want to just go and put these huge capabilities and ecosystems into an organization right away and you can't, you have to pace it, you have to gate it. Got to put that in over the course of not quarters, but oftentimes years. So build that capability roadmap number three is do it with others. So bring along. It's not just your tech partners, your finance partners and your business partners. Those are all important, you know people to be involved. Also make sure you're looping in your best friends from legal and procurement upfront because they can help you in the short term, but also they can avoid being a blocker in the long term. So make sure you're bringing everybody to the table from the very beginning. Number four, I think might be the most important of all of them, which is around change management. And it's something that I've learned and refined over the years is you have to find those upstream processes. You can't just put it in at the end user, just in the E commerce center of excellence. You've got to get all the way back up into your product lifecycle management process, your brand strategy guides. You gotta get all the way up into your IBP processes. You really have to make sure that you are embedding it into those big business processes to make it work and to make it stick. And then lastly, gotta measure it, gotta make sure that what you said you're gonna do happens. And you gotta make sure you're optimizing, leveraging those metrics and then celebrate it if it works because those celebrations, they might seem like an afterthought, but that's what kind of keeps that wheel of excitement and funding.
- [10:12]
Sarah Hofstadter
The celebration part might be a sixth thing. The idea of celebration and merchandising is one of those things where we're so moving on to the next thing and we have such a bias to action that we don't pause and come back and merchandise that success across all the five steps that you took up until that point.
- [10:32]
Andrea Steele
Yeah, absolutely.
- [10:33]
Sarah Hofstadter
Yeah.
- [10:34]
Experian Advertiser
Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms with over 2,400 pre built audiences, there's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more@experian.com Adweek that's exp E R-I-A N.com Adweek.
- [11:05]
Philo Ads Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Philo Ads. Want to get your brand in front of the right audience? Philo Ads is the way to go. With 98% of viewing on connected TVs and over 900 million monthly ad impressions, Philo gives advertisers unmatched accessibility, flexibility and results. Power your next campaign with Philo Ads. Today head to Ads Philo TV to get started.
- [11:34]
Reltio AI Advertiser
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- [12:21]
Rachel Tippograph
Said number two was build a roadmap that could happen over a period of years. How do you balance that with the consumer moving a lot faster than that level of corporate change?
- [12:34]
Andrea Steele
Yeah, speed is an interesting thing in these companies. I've found that there's places again your best friends can be procurement, legal and your pmo. Because the people who know the best are the ones that know how to break the processes and break the rules. Legal is not breaking the rules, but you know what I mean. They know how to reverse engineer them. The best to speed up for that changing landscape because most of these business processes were built for mass advertising, longer product life cycles for brick and mortar and they don't necessarily work for a fast moving digital and e commerce space. So find those best friends to help rethink and speed up where you can within the existing processes. I'm also a big fan of slowest smooth, smoothest fast that Navy seal's saying, because I do see oftentimes in this space there's this big haste to be like, oh, build it tomorrow, go. It's digital go fast. And that can oftentimes send people in the wrong directions. And so to me again, I keep in mind two things. One, is that next thing you're doing tied back to that original objective and business strategy. And number two, are there any dependencies? Because I see too often people are not linking all those dependencies and then they're making moves that are causing churn. So an example is ratings and reviews. Every CPG knows the importance. All three companies I've been at have really been invested in making sure that we have strong volume and rating average. But the haste might be around, hey, if you have low reviews, let's just go run and sample. There's so many things you can do from a back end product feed, from a product grouping standpoint that can mitigate so much of that need to throw money or speed around sampling at that problem. So I've seen tons of savings efficiencies just by ensuring you understand those dependencies and work cross collaborative way to solve them.
- [14:21]
Sarah Hofstadter
Can we pick that that ratings and review thing one thread further. Have you ever been in a situation where the problem is actually that the product sucks and that's why the ratings are reviews? Yeah.
- [14:31]
Andrea Steele
Yes.
- [14:32]
Sarah Hofstadter
How has that gone back into your whole point about upstream?
- [14:36]
Andrea Steele
Yeah, it's critical. Every company should have reviews and we do here. They're doing a great job of making sure that quality control, that consumer response is fully embedded, that our bus get access to those insights. You see this problem usually first in reviews. Quality issues usually pop there before they pop through your consumer call lines, care lines, because people don't want to pick up the phone and call anymore. So you can often see that trend really quickly and use it to quickly pivot messaging, dial back on media till you fix a problem. There's so much power in that insights source.
- [15:11]
Rachel Tippograph
You're using words like pivot, test, learn, optimize, get in there. Like all of this requires human capital. And so you talked about number four being the hardest part, which is change management. How do you balance driving this change without burning people out?
- [15:31]
Andrea Steele
Yes, it is a lot and you have to go back to that Strategy, go back to that prioritization, number one. Number two, I think we've talked a little bit about testing and test and learn strategies as well. And I do think there can be certain times when an organization can be overextended on testing. Actually, I think testing should be in favor of that central strategy to inform it. And it should be like 20% of your mindset and the 80% your core strategy. If you flip that and you're running in all different directions on tests, one, that's likely not going to be scalable, two, maybe not even executable when you get to market. So I think it's important to make sure that your resources are prioritized and focused on your biggest rocks and that you do have room for that test and learn, but that you're doing it in a way that's informing that central strategy and consumer first, consumer led again, not kind of sending everybody in different directions.
- [16:27]
Sarah Hofstadter
Once had a client that spent so much time doing testing, I couldn't figure out why because like he had the answer, he got bonus on the number of tests he was doing.
- [16:37]
Andrea Steele
Exactly.
- [16:38]
Sarah Hofstadter
It's like, can you go back to, I think it's point number five in your five point thing is, you know, measurement. It's like, well, let's just make sure we're measuring back to that first step that you measured, which is like, ultimately what are our business objectives? If the objective is testing, you're gonna.
- [16:53]
Andrea Steele
Get a lot of testing. Exactly. Yeah. I think it's so important. I think your test roadmap should be flexible because I think people get afraid. Like if I don't have a hundred tests, then how am I gonna keep learning in a fluid way? Well, set the intentions in the beginning of the year with your cross functional partners, have that consumer centric central testing roadmap and then have the flexibility and freedom to have those monthly quarterly touch bases to keep pivoting to where you need to. Because resources are finite. We can't spend an unlimited ways to both test and to execute.
- [17:25]
Rachel Tippograph
You mentioned doing this type of work for the last 13 years of your career in big CPG companies. You know, if we looked at the CPG category overall, it's not growing that fast.
- [17:35]
Sarah Hofstadter
Right.
- [17:36]
Rachel Tippograph
Doesn't matter where you work. And so here you have a group of employees that in some ways feel like they have their backs against the wall because there's just so many headwinds. And then you're brought in to lead the change. I feel like there's this added psychological nuance that you also have to overcome. And I'm just curious, like where that.
- [17:56]
Andrea Steele
Happens in your framework education upfront, I think that's probably ground zero, actually in stage zero is making sure that people understand that nuance because there is growth in CBG right now. It's just not necessarily in the places that everyone's looking for it. And so understanding where that growth is happening, whether that's Last Mile partners, E commerce channels, take a look at where your foot traffic is going, where your trips are going, and understand where those pockets of growth are. And that is where we need to prioritize. In 2024, 76% of US CPG growth came from E Commerce. That's a huge opportunity. And many retailers, it was over 100% of their growth. So understand where those pockets of growth are and really think about what's that total company prioritization around where you need to play. And I think that's been the great thing about Kraft. He recognize this is an opportunity. That's why I'm here. I'm thankful to be here to help lead that. But I think it's an exciting place and exciting opportunity. So bringing the data, bringing the visibility to the data and then making sure everyone really understands that there is that opportunity to drive strong growth again. But just with that different prioritization that maybe we've had in the past.
- [19:11]
Sarah Hofstadter
One of the things that you've experienced in the CPT world for a while, but also in the tech and digital space, I would say until relatively recently has not been so gender equal, if you will. And there are a lot of women that are still trying to navigate these areas and how to move with the appropriate pace and the bias to action and doing all the things that you just said and all of the sequencing, but especially when you're leading, there are a lot of things that can come along with that. What advice do you have to women who are trying to figure out how to navigate their growth without coming off with any of the negative connotations that could get in the way of that?
- [19:59]
Andrea Steele
Yeah, I think having the belief that you can figure it out is the number one place I would start. And so it's something that I've had to learn. I go back to my time at Hershey and there were some great leaders in the sales organization there that just picked me up out of more of a capabilities marketing focused role and put me in the Amazon team lead role to hold the P and L. And I said, well, I haven't done that before. Why would you do that? And they're like, because we know you can figure it out. And I did, but I didn't know it at that time that I could do that. And that experience really gave me that confidence going forward that I could actually figure anything out, because Amazon. So it was a great experience. I hear so many stories about that where it's leaders identifying that talent, bringing them along and helping build that confidence and skills. But I think that that is truly the imposter syndrome challenge. You have to focus on your skills and that you can figure things out, not your experience alone, because nobody's ever ready for that next big step.
- [20:57]
Sarah Hofstadter
Well, if somebody said they have 10 years of AI experience, you know, I'd be fact checking the hallucination on that one.
- [21:04]
Andrea Steele
Exactly.
- [21:05]
Rachel Tippograph
I got chills. Andrea, when you just said that, as someone who has been by your side for so many years, to know that that was the moment that increased your confidence, because in my mind, you always had it. I really appreciate you sharing that. There's so many people that have imposter syndrome. So we have to ask you our favorite last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?
- [21:31]
Andrea Steele
Unfortunately, Andrew last week stole my answer. He had the best answer. No, it's good, though, because everyone should go back and listen because he had the most beautiful, eloquent answer about becoming a parent. And I 100% agree. Can't wait for you, Rachel, to go through the same thing very soon. It's a huge leap, but it's number one bravest thing. But I'll give a more recent professional answer, which is at the end of last year, a former company I was with eliminated my position. And that was a really scary time. And I didn't know, you know, what was next for me. And I did two, looking back, like, really brave things at that time. I think a lot of people are going through this right now as well. So hopefully this is helpful inspiration for others. One, I was brave by being vulnerable and opening up to my network, to the two of you, to many others, and saying, hey, like, help me kind of brainstorm this. What could be next? And two, I had that confidence of, hey, I can go figure this out. I can go use all the skills I've gathered through these experiences to go do something on an even bigger scale, drive bigger change, and to bring those skills, you know, to a company that is, you know, really needing that experience at this time. And so those two brave things, the confidence in myself and the network, brought me to Marlene Creighton, who's the chief sales officer for Kraft Heinz North America. And she said, hey, you know, I have an opportunity here where I really, I believe in you and I really need your help. And you know, and I knew I could do that role and contribute here. So I recommend bravery in that way to everyone because it can really turn out in a really great way.
- [23:04]
Sarah Hofstadter
I think a lot of people who take that brave risk of vulnerability recognize how much more effective that is in getting to wherever you want to get to. But it is hearing stories like yours that get people to have a little bit more confidence that they can do it themselves. I feel like that's happened to me as well where I say something just like super vulnerable that you wouldn't expect to hear. And well, she did it. I could do it. And I'm glad your episode came after Andrew's, I guess a float off his.
- [23:39]
Andrea Steele
And provide another, another one. So.
- [23:42]
Sarah Hofstadter
Agreed.
- [23:42]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, I think your vulnerability comes through and that's a huge part of why you're such a great asset not just to the companies you work at, but also to Sarah and I. So we appreciate your partnership and, and friendship.
- [23:54]
Andrea Steele
Thank you guys. Thank you both for having me.
- [23:56]
Sarah Hofstadter
Thanks for joining. It's about damn time.
- [24:01]
Rachel Tippograph
If you like what you heard and you want to keep going down a rabbit hole about craft, you must go listen to an episode we recorded with their chief growth officer, Di Frost, Diana Frost. Or go check out the episode that Andrea gave a shout out to a recent episode with Andrew from Mondelez. And thanks for listening.
- [24:38]
Philo Ads Advertiser
This episode is brought to you by Philo Ads. Want to get your brand in front of the right audience? Philo Ads is the way to go. With 98% of viewing on connected TVs and over 900 million monthly ad impressions, Philo gives advertisers unmatched accessibility, flexibility and results. Power your next campaign with Philo Ads. Today head to Ads Philo TV to get started.
- [25:04]
Experian Advertiser
Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms with over 2,400 pre built audiences. There's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust made simple. Learn more@experian.com Adweek that's experian.com Adweek.
- [25:37]
Reltio AI Advertiser
Every company is racing to put AI to work. But only a few are truly pulling ahead. Why? Because they started with a trusted data foundation. The kind that delivers clean, connected real time data across the enterprise. Data fuels every decision and every AI system with confidence. Want to win the AI race? Start smart. Start with a reltio AI.
- [26:09]
Jackie Cooper
Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.