Sarah Hofstetter (2:53)

Welcome to today's episode of Creative Commerce. I'm Sarah Hofstetter.

Rachel Tippograph (2:57)

And I'm Rachel Tippograph. And this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, what's your opinion? Is it better to be first, second, or last when it comes to business?

Sarah Hofstetter (3:18)

I'd like to start second and come in first.

Rachel Tippograph (3:21)

Okay, explain further.

Sarah Hofstetter (3:22)

Listen, I always love a good underdog story, a good David and Goliath story. Catching when they're sleeping story. I don't mind even starting last and getting my way out there, but once I get to first, babe, I am like, then the pressure is really on because I feel like if I'm chasing something, I can do something. But if I don't see something ahead of me, I and I got to, you know, get. Getting further out, that's always a challenge. What about yourself?

Rachel Tippograph (3:46)

I mean, I thrive in being first, but I've learned that it's not always the best position in business.

Sarah Hofstetter (3:53)

Say more.

Rachel Tippograph (3:54)

I'll think about my own business. Right. Like, we created a space. And I'll Never forget in 2020, when Wavecrest, at the time I made investor, invested money, they said, rachel, you created a space. People are going to see your growth and start copying you. And so there is something to being in second, third, fourth, because you have the opportunity to learn from number one and then figure out what's going to be your strategy to steal market share. And there's nothing wrong with being second, third, or fourth if you can then put yourself in a position to become first. So then inevitably, as you said, pressure raised and we had to keep innovating to remain in the number one position.

Sarah Hofstetter (4:32)

Yeah, I think there's something interesting to that. And then just kind of keeping in mind, there are those who just leapfrog where you don't see them coming.

Rachel Tippograph (4:38)

Yep. A hundred percent.

Sarah Hofstetter (4:39)

Where you're like, wait one second. I didn't really take that One particularly seriously. And then all of a sudden they've either done a roll up or. Or something like that. That kind of gets you there.

Rachel Tippograph (4:49)

Yeah. Cpg, I feel like you and I spend a lot of time bringing people onto the show in some core categories, like general, snacks, beverage, alcohol, protein. We haven't spent a lot of time in some of the more ancillary categories. And upon self reflection, I'm trying to ask myself why? Is it because they have smaller budgets? They're just categories that haven't won General Mindshare. Like, what do you think it is about our guest selection?

Sarah Hofstetter (5:20)

Don't sell yourself short. I think Campbell's plays in a similar space. In fact, when you look at their Thanksgiving campaign, it's always about the state of the sides. And the insight is people like the sides more than they like the mains. And so sometimes, yeah, you do focus on the main event, but or so we've definitely had people from Campbell's, obviously, but even when we had Diego from nizcon, that's never about the host. It's always about the compliment. Whether it's the bitters, the rice vinegar. There's plenty that goes along to it. We may not be paying as much attention to it. So the question for them becomes, how do they get lion share when people are always thinking about, okay, well, what should I make for dinner? The not going to say, oh, I'm going to make salad dressing.

Rachel Tippograph (6:01)

100%. The Marzetti Company, which we're about to bring on, their strategy is literally to not be the host. Food is to be the additional item that really perfects a meal or completes a meal. And that strategy has led them to doing over $500 million in revenue. So that's nothing to sneeze at.

Sarah Hofstetter (6:19)

Hey, look, you offer me a garlic bread or you offer me something else. Garlic bread. Still doing the day.

Chelsea Bakken (6:25)

Just saying.

Sarah Hofstetter (6:26)

I think Michael really brings that idea to life.

Rachel Tippograph (6:28)

Well, on that note, let's bring Michael onto the show today. We are super excited to have Michael Retta, the vice president of Omnichannel marketing at the Marzetti Company, onto the show. Hello, Michael.

Michael Retta (6:41)

Hello. Thank you for having me.

Rachel Tippograph (6:43)

Absolutely. So Marzetti has a lot of brands within the portfolio, but maybe not some that everyone knows. And. And you guys have a really interesting strategy. You often play in categories that aren't the most talked about, like frozen bread, refrigerated dressings. From the company's perspective, what makes these types of categories such compelling growth opportunities?

Michael Retta (7:08)

Yeah, I mean, you hit the nail on the head Initially. Right. We've got some brands that aren't necessarily household names, but I think once people engage and interact and try them, we feel really confident that they're going to be pleased with their experience. And those categories that you mentioned, refrigerated dressings, the smaller portion of dressings versus the bigger center store category, frozen bread, frozen dinner rolls, things like that, they're not the sexiest, the biggest, the most exciting. The categories that you'd expect to see advertising in, things like the super bowl, et cetera, like snacks, beverages, et cetera. But what makes it exciting for us, and I think flips the script and makes it far less limiting, is the mantra that we have to make every meal better. We are not the host food, as we would say. And so as you think about your salads or your related occasions where dressings or dips can be a part of that, we believe that Marzetti is a superior product. You think about pasta, dinner at home, whether you have kids or you just love pasta, you had garlic bread, garlic toast, New York bakery, Texas toast, to that occasion. It elevates that experience. And similarly with Sister Schubert's, our other main owned brand in the portfolio, those are dinner rolls that came from a homemade recipe. They're easy to make, and they really elevate the experience, whether it's the core dinner roll, the Parker House roll, the cinnamon rolls. And they provide really a homemade like experience that elevates that. And additionally, we're able to then highlight alternative usages for those products as well, which. Which makes it exciting and extends the relevancy of both the categories and the products.

Sarah Hofstetter (8:34)

So you talk about this whole thing about not being the host food. I think it depends on how you divide up your plate, but, you know, to each its own. But granted, you're not, you know, just taking spoonfuls of dressing. That's probably not the default. Yeah, but you know, so much about shopping now, at least outside of the store, is about discovery. So you already have something in mind that you want to buy. So when you're not the host food, how do you think about demand, capture discovery differently, and particularly when you think through the role of innovation.

Michael Retta (9:05)

Yeah, absolutely. So we are predominantly frozen and refrigerated portfolio, and absolutely rely on stores for a large part of the business. And so, you know, it's interesting, I think, you know, when I started in marketing, there was the first moment of truth, and then it became the zero moment of truth. And it was a different way that people shopped. And now I think that there's so much discovery going on in so many different places with social and list building and recipes and things of that nature. And so I think we're trying to be more proactive and deliberate about telling stories in an engaging and culturally relevant way that can stand out for folks in the areas in which they're engaging and then reinforce that story through retail media type advertising that's going to hit them at the lower funnel. You know, I think of it as digitally influenced sales and we don't have a perfect way of tracking that. But there's so much engagement going on in advance of the store if that's where someone is converting. And so if we can find ways to be relevant, whether it's more tactical with the product, its inclusion in addition to recipes or other ways that we can stand out with content, we're going to try to do that and certainly focus on that as we move forward.

Sarah Hofstetter (10:12)

Do you think about brand partnerships in that regard? When I say brand partnerships, I really mean that in the context of other possibly host foods because getting into the recipe, I don't know, that goes back to the days of the Betty Parker cookbooks and stuff like that. And by the way, tried and true. And your version of it, it's modernized for sure. I think one of the first things I did when I started working on gosh on food back in 2008 or something like that was just doing partnerships with allrecipes.com so obviously there's more modern versions of it. But how do you think through the partnerships with other food brands to elevate that?

Michael Retta (10:45)

Yeah, we love them. We've certainly done that over the last couple years. It's a more recent thing. Instacart's been a great partner in helping connect the dots there. And so certainly, you know, if you look at a brand like New York Bakery coordinating occasion would be with pasta meals. But we see a lot of opportunity to continue to reinforce that. And so we've seen partnerships with other brands that would be more of a standard host food in that occasion. And we've also seen success in just more general partnerships where it's more of a basket building type thing where you might buy, you know, household items, you might buy food and seeing it with less of a strategic fit. But certainly for brands like ours that are smaller in smaller categories, but we feel like have relevancy to stand out and we're just trying to get them in front of people and in the carts, you know, leveraging the weight and relevance of larger partners can certainly play a role and it's been a beneficial one for us in certain circumstances over the last 2 2ish years.

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Chelsea Bakken (12:09)

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Rachel Tippograph (12:51)

You mentioned Instacart being a great partner. And so when you think about digital commerce for the portfolio, looking at your LinkedIn, it looks like you joined in the middle of the pandemic.

Michael Retta (13:02)

Yeah.

Rachel Tippograph (13:03)

And so I have to guess that for the company, e commerce was probably a small part of total revenue. And now I believe public data cites that it's at 16% of total revenue. So do you correlate all that to the pandemic? Were there other strategic decisions that were made within the business? Like, tell us about that inflection and growth.

Michael Retta (13:25)

Yeah, so I started in May of 2021. You know, I don't know that I fully thought all that through until a box showed up at my doorste up in early May with my computer and stuff. And then it was like, oh, wait, okay, this is real and we're still not open and whatnot. And kids were still home and that kind of thing. But you know, in looking back, yeah, our business in e commerce and digital commerce had no focus prior to early March of 2020. If we had sales, they were just kind of trickling in and not a focus whatsoever. And so credit to the organization that as Covid started, they started to pivot funds towards some of those areas. And over that year, plus, before I started that, the wheels were in motion. You know, a lot of things that I've been a part of and seen and had visibility to that seem really innovative and amazing in the end, generally start with really basic fundamentals. And that was the case for us in our e commerce, digital commerce journey. Our content was in dire need of update. We had. If you needed an angle of a bottle, we had it. If you needed an angle of a box, we had it. If you needed the text kind of transposed oddly from the back of the package, we had that. And so we really focused on getting our content right, getting our ratings and reviews situated, looking at our search strategies. You know, we had a really committed organization and we still do to see this through, which makes a big difference as we're trying things. And there's a comfortability where every step doesn't have to be perfect. And then we circle that with people and partners. We made a partnership shift about a year into my tenure, which has been really beneficial. They play a critical role in a lot of the work that we do. We've added people on the team, and then it's collaboration with our sales folks, with our retail partners, with our retail media partners. And that's kind of the journey that we've been on. And we've grown a lot. And I think there's a lot of Runway to continue to grow and expand as we think about the future.

Sarah Hofstetter (15:14)

I want to just take a step because we're recording shortly after the Super Bowl. And I'm just curious, as you looked at so many different brands that were advertising during the super bowl. To me, one thing that stood out was for the CPG brands, there wasn't a lot of connectivity to the omnichannel experience. You know, there was the Instacart Bananas and the Uber Eats and the grubhub, but the brands themselves, whether it was, you know, Pepsi or, you know, some of the others, just didn't seem to make that connection in the same way that they had in years past. What's your take on that? Although I will say I did love the liquid IV toilets. I mean, that was. That might have been my favorite CPG one.

Michael Retta (15:57)

Yeah, it's interesting. I think Liquid Death seemed like they had a little bit more of their stuff together from like an Amazon in terms of their energy drink. But I agree. I think if you're going to spend that amount of money. You certainly are in a room with smart people trying to think through the best ways to do it. I don't know if they're thinking through, hey, people are going to find us and we know how this works. If they feel more comfortable in the data that they have around the journey and then searching and things of that nature and don't need to be as deliberate with it. But I definitely feel like in past years you would have expected to see more of that, the QR code, click here. Type of a thing that you end up seeing on like Thursday Night Football a lot when it's on Amazon and things like that. And, and so I think certainly they're confident in the way that they're going to move people through the funnel.

Sarah Hofstetter (16:42)

That's a very generous interpretation. You may be right. I don't know. I haven't spoken to the CMOs. This is pretty, you know, fresh, hot off the presses, versus, let's say, you know, looking at squaresp for AI.com who is just like, you know, QR code all the way. Not that I'm saying QR code is a means to end, but the connectivity to me seemed a little bit falling short. So either to your point, they're making an assumption.

Michael Retta (17:04)

Yeah.

Sarah Hofstetter (17:05)

That people know how to go buy their stuff, which of course people know how to go shopping for sure. But what creates the sense of urgency to do so? Or have marketers moved on and said, okay, I'm getting distracted by that AI bright shiny object. Maybe E commerce is my number one priority these days. I hope not, I hope not. But I don't know.

Michael Retta (17:26)

Yeah, it's interesting. I'm going to give marketers the benefit of the doubt, I'd say there it's a data driven expectation how people are shopping, but the time will tell, I guess.

Rachel Tippograph (17:33)

Well, talking about the future, especially the future of Marzetti's growth strategy, a few days ago, you guys announced a new acquisition of a Japanese hot sauce that I use in my house. When you guys think about what's the future portfolio that's going to win with American consumers because taste preferences are changing, demographics are changing. Like, what is the big bet?

Michael Retta (17:55)

Yeah, I think certainly, you know, flavors are going to continue to evolve and we want to be at the forefront of that. You know, we've done a number of things that are related to that and I feel really confident in the innovation pipeline that our teams are building. We have an incredibly strong culinary research and development arm and an innovation center here in Columbus that's Always kind of partnering with that. And we have a large food service arm to our org as well that I think is tapped into things that are going on in a way that an organization that didn't have that may not be. So I think at its core, we're going to continue to focus on making every meal better and looking at foods and flavors that continue to do that. Obviously, we're looking at alternative acquisitions and trying to grow the portfolio in that way, while also looking at license relationships. So we work with a number of partners on the license side and sauces like Buffalo Wild Wings and Arby's, Subway Olive Garden amongst a few. And then obviously within our own brands like Marzetti New York Bakery, Sister Schubert's looking for occasions that we can continue to expand that really center around that idea of making every meal better and trying to stay true to who we are and really bring that to life. You know, as I mentioned before, Activation Wise, I think we've only scratched the surface on telling our stories. Marzetti as a company really roots back to a restaurant that was opened here in Columbus, Ohio by Teresa Marzetti in 1896, and she started making dressings in the upstairs. And that's kind of the beginnings of it. New York Bakery as a founder led story, as the Sister Schubert, amongst others. And so I think Activation Wise is really trying to hone in on what are the reasons that we stand out and what are the stories that we want to tell to align with the products and try to break through and ensure that we're on lists and getting in front of people.

Rachel Tippograph (19:29)

That's incredible. About the founder story, Marzetti, I had no idea that the company went that far back.

Michael Retta (19:34)

Yeah, the restaurant does. So. So along the way she started doing the dressings and the upstairs and things like that. But the origins of Marzetti's restaurant here in Columbus, Ohio, date back to 1896. And then the journ kind of goes along the way from there. Yeah, it's pretty awesome.

Rachel Tippograph (19:48)

Well, talking about founder stories, let's turn the tables on you. If you take a look at your LinkedIn, you don't have a traditional CPG sort of trajectory. Yeah, by design, happenstance. Like what? Tell us about it.

Michael Retta (20:04)

You know, it certainly worked out in a way that I can talk to it as a very thoughtful design. I heard on another episode of your podcast. I think it's a Sheryl Sandberg quote about careers are not ladders, their jungle gyms. And that really resonates with me. I think some of my choices were driven by a genuine lack of not being sure of what I wanted. And others were very thoughtful. But getting into brand was a thoughtful decision. And trying to be more in the forefront of organizations and leading work and change and driving the business forward, evolving into digital and then working at agencies and in sales were thoughtful along the way. But I think for me it was really trying to kind of hone experience, gain knowledge. And also, you know, the filter of everything is to some level is this complimentary experience. Right. So going to an agency, maybe it wasn't going to be the future for me forever. And it may not have been a full step forward, but I certainly didn't believe it to be a step back. And so, as I've thought through the different steps along the way, are they complementary, are they additive? And if so, then I felt comfortable stepping in without complete clarity about what was next. And, you know, either by thought, by luck or happenstance or what have you, it's worked out to put me in a position where now I'm in a role where, you know, all those pieces come together in a way that's.

Sarah Hofstetter (21:19)

That's really beneficial as you've accumulated those skills throughout. And I'm a big fan of doing a stint or two at an agency. I feel like it. That in and of itself is a jungle gym.

Michael Retta (21:30)

It is.

Sarah Hofstetter (21:30)

Forget about the career. Yes, I'm not going back, but been there, done that. As you think about what informed those different decisions, there's probably a lot of either people or sources that you've gone to or that you continue to go to for information. I think whoever's listening to this podcast already listens to Brave Commerce. So obviously, outside of Brave Commerce, where else do you go to get your inspiration? Are there conferences that you really rely on things that you read? Like, where do you get your inspiration?

Michael Retta (22:02)

Yeah, I think, you know, certainly listening to podcasts like this and others that give me exposure to other folks in the industry sharing their understanding, their experiences, I've definitely felt like, you know, the great thing with digital and I think marketing in general, but for me it's been more on the digital and e commerce leg of my career is that when you get to conferences, people are really open about sharing their time and experiences and understanding, whether it's their own experience with making a jump from the client side to the agency side or sales side and things like that. And those are always been. So I've been to a lot of a and a conferences over the years that have been hugely resourceful. Grocery shop is is one in my earlier days with Heinz, there was a thing called iMedia, which some folks may remember. I think the initial conference where they.

Sarah Hofstetter (22:46)

Gave love the shout out to iMedia.

Michael Retta (22:49)

Yeah, right. It was, it was like Coronado. And you got the kind of the free ride as a marketer, but then you did the meetings. Which grocery shop is, has kind of adapted. But there were, you know, folks back then that, that were available and thoughtful and helpful to think through things like moving away from brand and digital, stuff like that, so, and then other people within the networks that generally, I, I, you know, I think if, if you're willing and able to ask, people are very generous with their time and, and I felt like I also try to reciprocate that as well in terms of people kind of making their way through their own journeys.

Rachel Tippograph (23:19)

Well, Michael, so appreciative of you sharing your career story. We now have to ask you our famous last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?

Michael Retta (23:27)

Yeah, that's a tough one. I, I, you know, I think as I think back, I'll focus more professionally. And I don't know if there's bravery, recklessness, or ignorance. As I think back to some of the decisions, I would say from an overarching perspective, you know, the bravest thing that I think I've been willing to do in my career is take a path less traveled. And the starting point for that would have been the first step out of the more traditional track at Hines when I was in brand. And so it was like 2010 or so. Facebook was really new and shiny and you could reach your likes or your followers without a ton of media and all the fun things going on, I think pre Instagram. And so I stepped out of kind of what would have been the next phase of a brand track there to create a digital role within that org. And they were hugely supportive of that. And that kind of paved the way to the agency role and then the other steps that we've discussed. And so in hindsight, it doesn't feel that brave, but I think at the time it was a very unique decision that wasn't, you know, in line with what others were doing. And I look back at that as feeling like the opening of the door for the track that I've been on and really sticks out in my own head.

Rachel Tippograph (24:34)

It starts with Hines. Isn't that the tagline?

Sarah Hofstetter (24:36)

Yeah, it has to be Heinz.

Rachel Tippograph (24:39)

Yeah, it has to be. Oh, it has to be Heinz. Never mind. Well, Michael's so appreciative. For all the insights. We'll be continuing to look at the growth of the Marzetti portfolio and folks can find you on LinkedIn.

Michael Retta (24:50)

Awesome. Thanks so much for having me.

Rachel Tippograph (24:54)

If you like what you heard and you want to keep thinking about some of these more ancillary categories that become very big businesses, go check out episodes that we've done with various executives over the year at Mizcan, but especially Diego Palmari. If again, you like what you heard, tell a friend. Write a review. Thanks for listening.

LinkedIn Ads Voice (25:37)

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Chelsea Bakken (26:09)

Does using social media ever make you feel like you're just yelling into an algorithmic void? That feeds have started to feel a lot less, you know, social? Well, we're doing something about it. I'm Chelsea Bakken, Head of Audience Development and Social at Adweek, and I'm so excited to invite you to Social media week this April 14th through 16th. We're bringing together creators, marketers and social leaders in a vibrant IRL space in New York City for three days of connection, collaboration and learning. You'll get the chance to dish on the latest tools and tricks, hear fresh perspectives on the year's most viral moments, and get the slot free inspiration you need to connect with your audience and optimize performance. Head to adweek.com events to learn more.

Jackie Cooper (26:52)

Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most famous, fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming center stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.