Nestlé’s Stefan Kovačević on Building Brands for Both Humans and AI

Summary

BRAVE COMMERCE | Nestlé’s Stefan Kovačević on Building Brands for Both Humans and AI

Date: June 9, 2026
Host: Adweek (Rachel Tipograph & Sarah Hofstetter)
Guest: Stefan Kovačević, Nestlé Executive

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Episode Overview

In this episode of BRAVE COMMERCE, hosts Rachel Tipograph and Sarah Hofstetter dive into the evolving landscape of brand-building in an era where artificial intelligence shapes not just buying journeys, but increasingly mediates the decision-making process itself. Their guest, Stefan Kovačević of Nestlé, explores how brands must now appeal to both human emotions and the logic of AI algorithms. The conversation moves from foundational principles of brand equity to the operational realities and risks of algorithmic commoditization—and what bold new moves are required for both legacy and upstart CPGs to thrive.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Evolution of Brand Building in an AI-Driven World

• Shift in Decision-Makers:
  AI is changing decision-making in commerce by moving from humans evaluating a handful of options to intelligent assistants evaluating thousands and surfacing only a few recommendations.

  • "For years, digital commerce rewarded visibility... But AI is changing that entirely and quite fast." — Stefan Kovačević [07:24]

• Human vs. Machine Equity:
  Brands must invest in both "human equity" (emotional resonance, identity, ritual) and “machine equity” (reliability, consistency, fulfillment confidence).

  • "Winning brands maybe will need two layers of future equity going forward... Human equity... and this new machine equity..." — Stefan Kovačević [09:00]

• Enduring Power of Emotional Branding:
  While AI can optimize convenience or routine purchases, it can't replace inherently human rituals and emotional connections tied to brands—especially in categories like coffee, confectionery, and pet care.

  • "If AI can optimize caffeine delivery, sure. But it's not going to replace that anticipation, that ritual, or that comfort..." — Stefan Kovačević [08:17]

Algorithmic Commoditization & Utility Brands

• Compression in Utility Categories:
  Products like bottled water or household staples risk becoming commodities within AI systems that optimize for price and availability. Strong operational performance and reliability matter more than surface branding.

  • "If an LLM optimizes for value or for availability and consistency, your differentiation is going to weaken." — Stefan Kovačević [14:04]
  • "You can have a rich heritage campaign and still become interchangeable if you don't own... a structural operational advantage." — [14:09]

• Emotional Categories: The Last Bastion
  Consumables loaded with psychological meaning (coffee, chocolate, pet care) are more likely to retain intentional human decision-making, resisting full automation.

  • "We resist fully outsourcing psychologically meaningful decisions." — Stefan Kovačević [14:51]

Translating Brand Signals for Machines

• The New Digital Shelf:
  AI doesn’t just scan images and product content; it evaluates deeper factors like operational consistency, reorder rates, inventory reliability—turning supply chain reliability into brand equity.

  • "Fulfillment rate now becomes part of your brand equity... How your product performs on a Tuesday afternoon reorder matters just as much as the campaign that launched it." — Stefan Kovačević [19:27]

• Machine Legibility:
  Innovative campaigns (e.g., KitKat’s "Have AI Break") demonstrate how brands increasingly need to be "legible" to both humans and machines.

  • "KitKat... grounded in the Google DeepMind research... found a way to make itself legible in an AI system, not just for humans." — [19:18]

Retailer, Brand, and Supply Chain Siloes

• Algorithm as Consumer Proxy:
  The AI recommender is, in effect, the new gatekeeper. Short-term promotional gains can erode long-term algorithmic trust.

  • "The short term win becomes a long term signal problem. And that damage today is invisible because there's no bad review or no lost placement that you can point to." — [21:31]

• Breaking Down Organizational Silos:
  Complete alignment across brand, commerce, retail media, and supply chain is now mission-critical. Siloes are more costly in an AI-mediated shopping world.

  • "If a brand, commerce, retail media, supply chain, were all genuinely aligned... in an AI world the tax gets dramatically more expensive." — [22:47]

Reflecting on Changing Roles & Practices

• Adapting Content and Operations:
  The pace and nature of content creation and distribution is evolving. Timeliness and context matter more as AI relies on up-to-date signals.
  • "Now we know that recency of 60 days is more important for some LLM models. This is driving further conversation of how do we start to shrink that process..." — [24:31]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Emotional Weight of Brand Rituals:
  "My grandmother... became completely attached to [Nescafe]... the sweetest part of her going to bed at night was knowing that she’d wake up and make herself a cup of Nescafe... That’s not utility, that's emotional architecture."
  — Stefan Kovačević [08:00]

• Provocative Brand Test:
  "If an AI removed... your packaging, your shelf placement, and even your advertising budget, would you still be chosen? For a lot of brands, the answer is no."
  — Stefan Kovačević [16:46]

• The New Mandate for Brand Teams:
  "Are we architected for persuasion or are we architected for confidence? And those are two very different companies."
  — Stefan Kovačević [20:39]

• Light-Hearted Bravery Story:
  Stefan recounts impulsively running a marathon in Buenos Aires with only 72 hours' notice—exemplifying both personal and professional courage.

  • "The bravest thing I’ve ever done is I ran my first marathon with only 72 hour notice. So this is either a story about bravery or terrible decision making." — [25:51]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment & Key Topics | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:24–03:01| Stefan sets up the emotional value vs. AI signal translation dilemma | | 06:30–10:15| Main interview: How AI/algorithms are changing brand decision-making and equity; personal story on Nescafe and emotion | | 13:29–17:35| Building new brands in the AI era, algorithmic commoditization, emotional vs. utility categories | | 18:04–21:00| The “Five Cs” for AI, building confidence for machines, digital shelf transformation, KitKat/AI campaign example | | 21:12–23:16| Private label risks, retailer vs. brand interests, aligning human and AI experience | | 23:52–25:32| Stefan reflects on evolving roles, adapting content cycles, operational priorities | | 25:51–28:11| The bravest thing Stefan has ever done—spontaneous marathon, using ChatGPT, and lessons from endurance |

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Takeaways for eCommerce & Brand Leaders

• The core task is no longer just persuasion for the human—but building confidence for the machine, while safeguarding emotional moments for genuine human connection.
• Emotional categories have enduring power. Brands that are only transactionally differentiated (pricing, availability) are at risk of being overlooked by AI decision-makers.
• Operational excellence (fulfillment, consistency, reviews) is increasingly inseparable from brand equity.
• Align internal teams across commerce, supply chain, retail media—organizational silos are more costly than ever in an AI-mediated future.
• Brand teams must adapt to much faster content cycles and maintain machine-readable consistency while still telling stories that create human resonance.

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For Further Listening

• Episodes with other Nestlé executives (notably Neil for a global perspective)
• Interview with Jim Laszinski on the “Zero Moment of Truth” in the AI era

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This summary omits all advertisements and non-content segments. The conversation’s tone remained open, direct, and occasionally humorous, with an undercurrent of both urgency and optimism about the future of brand-building in a world increasingly shaped by artificial intelligence.

Transcript

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[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

The question becomes how do you translate emotional value into a signal that now these machines can actually interpret? An uncomfortable question that every brand team should be asking right now is if an AI removed, imagine your packaging, your shelf placement, and even your advertising budget. Would you still be chosen? For a lot of brands, the answer is no. Although AI may automate selections, humans still define what preference is, especially in categories that Nestle plays in, like Coffee, pet care, confectionery purchases that I think that are deeply emotional and ritualistic.

[Sarah Hofstetter]

Welcome to today's episode of Creative Commerce. I'm Sarah Hofstetter.

[Rachel Tippograph]

And I'm Rachel Tippograph. And this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, of all your time speaking to E commerce and brand sale professionals, how often do you think those people are thinking about fundamental brand building principles?

[Sarah Hofstetter]

It's such a good question, Rachel, because it really depends on the talent and how they came up. I look at e commerce or omni commerce people as like a group of social misfits because Sam came from, like, some come from the sales background, some come from a marketing background, some come from an IT background. I mean, even if you like, look at the roster of guests that we've had over the past almost six years, nobody came up through an E commerce background that's been working for an extended period of time, didn't exist. So people who come from the brand side and then move into commerce, they have that brand building nativity. But if you came in through it, then this becomes a much more functional algorithmic process. And so the key for commerce practitioners and leaders is to figure out where your muscle is strong, but more importantly, where your muscles might be weak or never been used. And figure out how to fill in blanks.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Yeah, I mean, I think that's why for so long these large CPG organizations had these 18 month rotations. So you could get exposed to all the different fields and have empathy for the different functions.

[Sarah Hofstetter]

Absolutely. I remember in the early days with Kraft Heinz, it drove me batty this whole 18 month cycle. Many you establish a relationship with somebody, they rotate off. And then even worse, if you're a brand manager, how can you really invest in the emotional connection in the brand and then figure out what the right solution is? And then 18 months later you're off and it's not enough time. Then you become more of a brand caretaker than a brand steward. Mm.

[Rachel Tippograph]

It's interesting. I think if we were to do a pulse check survey on a lot of the people that we've had onto the show, and if we ask them, do you think brand building matters in a world of AI driven discovery, I think we'd see a tale of two cities. Not like a unanimous perspective.

[Sarah Hofstetter]

I think you're right. We see a tale of two cities, but the two cities, one would be, yeah, of course, obviously, duh. But those who don't will just be like, oh, this is lower Funnel. This isn't brand building. If you're a beloved brand and you've got all the equity in the world, and that's really, really great, then sure, this could be your matching luggage. But very rarely is that the case. And does it continue to be the case, I would argue more commerce. People have to understand the criticality of brands because brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room isn't commerce when you're not in the room. Literally, you're not even in the store.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Well, you don't have to hear it from us. You're in for a real treat. You're going to hear from our friend Stephane at Nestle, who probably has one of the freshest articulations of what it takes to build brand in today's AI driven world. So let's bring Stephane onto the show.

[Sarah Hofstetter]

We are super excited to have you. I think we've been talking about this since last year's shop talk. It could be that long. But so much has changed in the past year. Oh, my gosh. And when we were catching up a few weeks ago, you had said something that I just can't stop thinking about. We're changing this whole idea about decisioning. A few weeks ago, we had Jim Laszinski talk about the new zero moment of truth. How you get exposed to brands, how people shop. And we're not just changing how people shop, we're changing who actually makes the decision for you. Is it you, the actual shopper, or is it AI that is now curating it for you? If AI in fact is making more of those decisions of what you get, what you see, then is there any purpose in brand building? So just starting with, like, an easy layout?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

I think the biggest misconception is that AI is somehow going to kill branding. It does something a little bit more uncomfortable, and I think it forces us to find out what are our brands actually worth. For years, digital commerce rewarded visibility. If you win the search result, you win the scroll, you somehow won disproportionate demand. But AI is changing that entirely and quite fast. The consumer today may not evaluate 10 options anymore, however, like you just said, their assistant might evaluate thousands of returns, and the recommendation that they get is just a few recommendations. So that's a fundamentally different environment. There's one nuance, however, that gets lost. Although AI may automate selections, humans still define what preference is, especially in categories that Nestle plays in, like coffee, pet care, confectionery purchases that I think that are deeply emotional and ritualistic. It reminds me of a personal story, actually one that drew me to a career at Nestle. My grandmother, she was born in Serbia in the early 1900s. All of her life, she drank traditional, strong, dark Turkish coffee, the really bitter ones that I don't even know how they. And when my family immigrated to Canada, my mother brought back a jar of Nescafe on one of our first visits back. And instant coffee wasn't as developed there yet. So my grandmother was not familiar with it whatsoever, but she became completely attached to it. And I remember she used to say the sweetest part of her going to bed at night was knowing that she'd wake up and make herself a cup of Nescafe. And to me, that's not utility, that's emotional architecture. And I think if AI can optimize caffeine delivery, sure. But it's not going to replace that anticipation, that ritual, or that comfort that my grandma was referring to. And the challenge is that historically, brands communicated those signals through packaging, storytelling, shelf placement, or, you know, sampling with sensory cues. AI today intermediates many of those moments. The question becomes, how do you translate emotional value into a signal that now these machines can actually interpret? Winning brands maybe will need two layers of future equity going forward. There's an element of human equity, and that's that emotional residence, that identity, the aspiration. And then you're going to have this new machine equity, which is all going to be around reliability, consistency, fulfillment, confidence. You know, what is that? Verified satisfaction for a machine. And most companies today are naturally so built for just that first one, because we're just in the process of getting used to the second one. And as AI handles more transactional decisions, those deeply human brands may actually become more valuable. Humans will reserve intentional decision making for categories that are tied to ritual, identity, and care. So I think weak branding is going to disappear, yes, but that deeply human branding is going to survive and potentially even become stronger.

[Rachel Tippograph]

I love the articulation that you just made.

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[Rachel Tippograph]

I'm trying to put myself right now in the shoes of a budding CPG entrepreneur who wants to bring a net new brand to market that one day Nestle will go and acquire. And so I guess when you think about modern day brand building for the AI generation, how would you tackle that in a world where part of the decision making is being outsourced to a non human entity?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

Well I think that's the defining commerce question of probably the next decade isn't it? You're right. I don't think most brand teams have maybe truly sat with that discomfort of it yet in a utility driven category. And I hope I don't offend anyone in this sense. But you know, bottled water or household staples, litter, you know, those routine replenishment AI creates enormous compression in that sense. And if an LLM optimizes for value or for availability and consistency, your differentiation is going to weaken F so you can have a rich heritage campaign and still become interchangeable if you don't somehow own, let's call it a structural operational advantage. And maybe we can define this as, I don't know, algorithmic commoditization in a sense. And I think a lot of brands are heading there without realizing it because we're over optimizing for something we don't know what we're optimizing for yet. So this is where I think some of the emotional categories behave completely differently. Think about coffee, the example I just gave with my grandma, it was quite ritual pet care. It's love and responsibility. And then you have chocolate, you know, it's reward and celebration. And these categories are loaded with psychological meaning. And us as humans historically, we resist fully outsourcing psychologically meaningful decisions. Are either of you familiar with Daniel Kahneman's work in thinking fast and slow?

[Sarah Hofstetter]

Indeed.

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

Okay, fantastic.

[Sarah Hofstetter]

So let's not assume our listeners have. So if you want to give a quickie.

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

Sure, sure, sure. So this is a psychologist, he had a book, fantastic study just around how our brains think. And much of Nestle's building is built this way. And you have these system thinking. System one is fast, emotional, habitual, and system two is this rational, deliberate, kind of more slow way. So AI, I think is extraordinary at that system two optimization. But the strongest food and beverage brands are, we're probably built on that system one. You know, the comfort, the nostalgia, the identity. And this actually connects to something you were saying that Jim Laszinski spoke about on your previous episode, around the zero moment of truth. Right. And how the Internet changed the way consumers build confidence before a purchase. And I think what AI does is take that even one step further. And it's not just about the moment of truth moving online. It's that the moment of truth is increasingly being experienced by a system acting on the consumer's behalf. And the AI builds the confidence this time and the human just receives a recommendation. That's a profound shift in where brand building actually needs to happen. And we've seen this pattern before. I think we spoke about it A little bit earlier where we were saying, you know, when these systems become super efficient, people start to reintroduce humanity. When streaming exploded, what happened? We had vinyl come back fast. Fashion like Zara H and M exploded, and you have craftsmanship becoming somehow premium again. That same dynamic probably going to start to play out in commerce where some of these utility purchases get increasingly delegated and, and emotional purchases become more increasingly intentional. An uncomfortable question that every brand team should be asking right now is if an AI removed, imagine your packaging, your shelf placement and even your advertising budget, would you still be chosen? For a lot of brands, the answer is no.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Damn, I feel naked right now.

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

It's quite normal to be in this space right now, right? For a lot of brands, the answer is no. And I think that's the gap worth closing. Because in an AI economy, those utility brands might get optimized, but emotional brands will get even more protected.

[Sarah Hofstetter]

This kind of goes back to something I wrote down while you were speaking. This whole idea of algorithmic commoditization, the idea of what defines a utility brand versus an emotional brand. And I like the way you kind of broke out the chocolate, the pet food and the coffee. Are utility brands screwed or do they just have to figure out how to win the algorithm? Are utility brands screwed just because of private label and financial realities?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

Yeah, well, it touches on kind of what everyone's preparing for today. And it's, you know, what are the new Jim, Jim mentioned, you know, the five Cs of marketing, you know, what are the new Cs of AI and Nestle? We started to think about this around, you know, you know, content and context, which is well regarded right now in the industry and even credibility, obviously. But what is that structured confidence that's going to shift from convincing a human in an emotional moment to reducing uncertainty for an intelligent system that's going to make a decision on behalf of a human. Most of us myself as well, guilty or the digital shelf conversations that we have today are still centered on that visible layer. And it's content, quality, images, search, ranking, reviews, sponsored placements, what we've defined our careers of the digital shelf with them in the last 10 years. We which are all important, but AI systems are reading that layer deeper of confidence. Right? You know, can this product reliably satisfy the consumer? Does it arrive on time? Is it, could it be consistently in stock? Do people reorder it? So to answer your question, these are the most important parts certainly for the utility brands, because that's a certainly different operating model than most Brands were built for initially, but now we need to serve. I'd be remiss to not share this example. You know, two years ago, KitKat was a little bit of ahead of its time in my home market in Canada and they had this amazing campaign called have AI break. Not sure if you guys saw this come out two years ago, but it was grounded in the Google DeepMind research showing how if you prompt an AI model with simply saying have a break right before you ask a question, it actually improved the accuracy of the answer. So that's how one of our brands found a way to make itself legible in an AI system, not just for humans. So a confectionary brand embedding itself into how AI thinks, and that was building machine equity before we even had a vocabulary for it. Most brands, and even utility brands, you know, maybe we're not there yet. And the risk is that if your inventory is unstable, your reviews are inconsistent and your substitutions are poor, you know, AI systems may quietly deprioritize you long before a human ever notices. So that's where I think that core function is still going to be super, super important. But the interesting thing I think is this is where retail media, supply chain and brand strategy probably converge in a way that the industry hasn't really let sink in yet. If you have operational inconsistency, it becomes a branding problem in an AI mediated world. So your fulfillment rate now becomes part of your brand equity. And the way your product performs on a Tuesday afternoon reorder matters just as much as the campaign that launched it. Right? So the question that we need to start asking ourselves isn't how do we win the search result. It's probably are we architected for persuasion or are we architected for confidence? And those are two very different companies. And it doesn't matter which segment or sector you're in.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Stevon, I want to hear your take on emotional brands versus utilitarian brands. Based on everything that you're seeing, do utility brands just outright become private label?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

It's a tough one because the simplest way I could put it is if you're making the algorithm less confident in your brand, you're eventually making probably a future consumer's experience worse. So they're the same thing right now, and the algorithm is somehow the consumer's proxy. So when a retailer pushes for something that creates operational strain. So let's think about heavy promotions that we can't consistently fulfill, or pricing mechanics that train the AI to see you as a deal brand or a private label brand. More than a trusted staple, the short term win becomes a long term signal problem. And that damage today is invisible because there's no bad review or no loss placement that you can point to to say that. So the algorithm just quietly starts recommending you less and you don't know why. And that's probably the conflict that matters more, more than whether or not you know where these private label brands will end up. So it's not the brand versus the retailer, it's probably your short term visibility versus your long term algorithmic trust. Practically the way to try to resolve it is maybe by separating the two things. So you let machines own the routine replenishment and protect emotional moments for humans. So the repeat purina order that we have to optimize for relentlessly, for efficiency, for confidence. However, the moment a new pet parent is choosing a brand for the first time, that needs to be that human experience and that storytelling, emotion and trust building. We can't let the algorithm flatten that. And that's why we need to save ourselves from driving ourselves to the bottom or over indexing on private label. And the only way that I think maybe that actually works for in a company is if a brand commerce, retail media supply chain, we're all genuinely aligned, right? And I think you guys have spoken many times on your show before about the, the silo tax that companies pay when teams aren't connected. I honestly think that in an AI world the tax gets dramatically more expensive because any of these operational failures anywhere in the chain become a brand signal almost immediately.

[Sarah Hofstetter]

So with that in mind, I think about the conversations you and I had five years ago. I think about the conversations you and I had two years ago and listening to the conversation we're having today. I don't think we would have recognized ourselves two years ago if we were listening to this recording. How do you think your role has changed just in light of so much of the change that has happened and given all of the really just profound thoughts that you have been sharing, like what have you stopped doing? Because you can't do more without taking something away. So what have you stopped doing and what have you started doing?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

It's actually elevated along a lot of the same challenges or observations that we had over the last five years. So somehow it's the same problem reshaped differently or said differently. And I'll use content as an example. When we were talking about content five years ago, we had this strain on how are we going to develop many different variations of content for all of the different retailers that we had then we had a strain of how are we going to publish and syndicate all, all of that content to all of the different retailers that we have today? We're talking about the same thing. We know we need more content, we know we need our content that's contextual, but we need to find out exactly now, what are all those prompts and what are all those questions? What are all the things that our shoppers are truly going to care to make sure that our brands resurface? So our teams are in the same conversations with the same stakeholders, but now we have, I think, more of a push behind us, more of a demand or the burning platform to say, okay, if we were trying to make copy variations every quarter based on seasonality for some of our products, well, now we know that recency of 60 days is more important for some LLM models. This is driving further conversation of how do we start to shrink that process, ways of working, of delivery and how do we ensure that we have the right inputs into making it the right content. So it's quite fascinating because the same conversations are resurfacing from that we've had over the last five to 10 years, but in a very different format, in a different shape, but with a lot more, I would say, endorsement to move forward.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Talk about someone to be able to help you with persuasion internally. You got your new colleague, the LLM. Sivan, it's really been such a pleasure to hear your take on how to build modern day brands in this ecosystem. But we got to ask you our famous last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

I thought about this a lot. The bravest thing I've ever done is I ran my first marathon with only 72 hour notice. So this is either a story about bravery or terrible decision making. So I'll let you two decide. Last year I was training for my second half marathon and the keyword there is half. And I was heading to Buenos Aires for a digital shelf workshop with our team in Argentina. And on the final prep call, somebody mentioned to me, you know, be aware, the city is going to shut down this Sunday for the marathon. And I made a joke somewhere along the lines of, oh, you know, I do my long runs on Sunday, maybe I'll join it for a few kilometers. And there was, there was a pause on the call and one of my Argentine colleagues said, completely deadpan, if you're serious, I, I know someone at the marathon organization and I can get you a bib. And instead of laughing it off like a Normal person. I said yes. So fast forward to an 18 hour flight I had on the plane. I'm not sure if you're familiar with Haruki Murakami. There's a book that he a memoir he wrote that's called what I Talk About When I Talk About Running. And his memoir is about marathons and writing. And the through line through it all is that finishing isn't physical preparation, it's about mental commitment and that willingness to endure. And I read the whole thing and thought, all right, my body's not ready for this, but maybe I can make my mind to be. I landed Saturday morning jet lagged. I got a text from my calling saying, I got your bib, but you need to get a medical clearance for the race. That's mandatory. I used ChatGPT to find a clinic open on a Saturday morning in Buenos Aires to get medical clearance to race. Picked up my bib and loaded up on some choripan and empanadas for carb loading and went to sleep hoping for the best. Sunday, I woke up and I did it. I ran my first full marathon through the streets of Buenos Aires. And it was extraordinary. The city, the energy, the people. It's the most alive I think I've ever felt. However, the most brave thing I would say is the Monday morning. Still barely walking, I had to stand in front of 50 of my colleagues and run a full day digital shelf workshop. So that was definitely great.

[Rachel Tippograph]

What was your time?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

Just under five hours. I mean, I had to do a little bit of running and walking to mix it in there, but well worth the experience. Absolutely.

[Rachel Tippograph]

And no injuries?

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

No injuries? No, no, no. It was low expectations. So then you kind of just go and have fun. But it, it fueled the fire for some future marathons for sure.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Well, if you have the mental fortitude to run a marathon with no preparation, AI's got nothing on you.

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

We'll see. We'll see.

[Rachel Tippograph]

Sivan, thank you for all your insights. We'll probably call you back six months from now and see where the world has landed, I hope.

[Stephane (Nestle Executive)]

Sure. It'll all look different. Thank you.

[Rachel Tippograph]

If you like what you heard, you can go check out a few other episodes we've done with Nestle executives. Definitely go check out our friend Neil for his global perspective. And please check out a recent episode we did with Jim, a professor at Northwestern who talks about that zero moment of truth. If you like what you heard, write a review. Thanks for listening.

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[Jackie Cooper]

Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.