Sarah Hofstadter (2:45)

Welcome to today's Episode of Free of Commerce. I'm Sarah Hofstadter.

Rachel Tippograph (2:49)

And I'm Rachel Tippograph. And this is a show that talks, talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, you spent a good amount of time working at agencies throughout your career.

Chelsea Bakken (3:08)

That I have.

Sarah Hofstadter (3:09)

That I have.

Rachel Tippograph (3:11)

Were you ever approached to build an agency within the brand, like a brand side agency?

Sarah Hofstadter (3:18)

In fact, I was petrified. Happening, I guess like in earnest probably about 15 years ago. least that's the way I look at it. Especially because of areas like specialization, particularly in, in social where you know, you want to be closer to the brand and you want people to have like a really good handle on what the brand stands for. And so creating these tiger teams of like paid, earned and owned in one environment representing the brands, you know, conceptually, first of all, I had no interest in running that because then you become part of the culture of the brands, not the culture of the agency. One of the main reasons people like to work at agency is culture. So I didn't have any interest in doing that. Maybe I would have thought differently depending on the culture of the company. But one of the biggest challenges with insourcing and creating these agencies within the client is talent turnover. Yeah, you know, it's not like you can move somebody who works on a different brand to come work on this. It is hard to scale unless you've got a really interesting dynamic and way of working. And I don't know, I mean you work with so many brands. Where have you seen the in house agency model work?

Rachel Tippograph (4:27)

For me it's less of a question where I see it work and how many times have I seen it And I've only come across it a true handful of times because I think for all the reasons that you just mentioned, it's, it's really hard to pull off in a sustainable way.

Sarah Hofstadter (4:42)

Seems like there's somebody that seems to have been able to do that. I mean it's still early days, which she herself will say, but when you have a brand as iconic as Lego, maybe you don't have those talent gaps because who wouldn't want to work for lego?

Rachel Tippograph (4:58)

It's true. And with a portfolio such so vast, with so many different audiences to serve, it can keep the job interesting. So on that note, let's bring Jen onto the show. The VP of our LEGO agency, Commerce and Digital within the LEGO Group. What a title, Jen.

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (5:17)

Yeah, it's pretty impressive, isn't it? It's a mouthful.

Rachel Tippograph (5:20)

Yeah, it's a mouthful. So you Must be busy.

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (5:23)

I'm definitely that. That's for sure.

Rachel Tippograph (5:25)

Hopefully most of our listeners know lego. I, I think that they probably do. But what they probably don't know is that Lego, everything that everyone knows around creativity when it comes to the brand, there's a key reason probably why it's such a core ethos. And I'm guessing that one of the reasons is how they approach creativity internally within the organization. And LEGO has this fascinating agency within the brand model which you're part of. And so I think probably a lot of our listeners have toyed around with this idea of in housing and really having an agency internally to service all their needs. So can you explain to us how your team operates within this structure and why LEGO believes that bringing creativity, commerce and retail thinking altogether can create perhaps an advantage for the business as opposed to how maybe a lot of other people approach it, which is outsource these things?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (6:27)

Yeah, 100%. Look, I'll start and say I think the reality is that the audience has never been separated like in terms of creativity, commerce and retail. They think of us as creativity transactions. It's all one only organizations really have separated them out. And so what we've done at LEGO is deliberately bring those worlds closer together. So in 2025 Ola Commerce was so our LEGO agency Commerce was created and that was really to strengthen how we show up across shopper retail, e commerce but importantly really to evolve our thinking from channels to thinking more connected experiences. And this allows us as you said, like from an in house perspective, it allows us to be closer to our brand partners and really I hope to be a big part of our leading the way in terms of how LEGO transforms its marketing capabilities and hopefully really leading in creative commerce globally. And just going back, that's sort of how our team works. But the value I think of having this in house agency is that we have this deep brand understanding. Obviously we're sitting with our business partners day to day, so understanding the purpose, the brand ethos, the audiences, I think really accelerating our speed and collaboration because we are with those partners. And then finally and what I'm really passionate about, that we have this ability to be connected as we think about that ecosystem. So thinking about creative storytelling across the whole LEGO business ecosystem is easier I think when we're embedded in the business.

Sarah Hofstadter (8:05)

I totally agree about the connectivity to the business and there's nothing like stronger than being able to represent the brand when you're in Copenhagen or just among the others that are living and breathing and building. Especially given the iconic nature of the brand. But it's hard not to bring up something like AI here actually, if nothing else about the operationalizing of it all. Right, because you've got to work with all of your internal stakeholders. That's the benefit of having this LIGO agency. At the same time you do have agency partners. How is AI either helping or is it too early days or where have you seen the way AI works to impact your team at LEGO from even from a workflow optimization perspective?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (8:59)

Yeah, and look, we are early days. Obviously there's a lot of noise out there and we're being thoughtful, but ultimately we are a very creative business and we'll always believe in the value of human creativity. But we need to be thinking about making our processes smarter, more automated and hopefully effective as we are actually global brand. So of course we're using shared design environments and tools. We're collaborating on what geo sorry or AEO needs to look like as we think about, you know, impacting the creative experiences that we're building. And I'd say our priority is really freeing our people's time so that they can be as creative as possible, impact those big cultural moments where it matters and hopefully really be thinking about that full ecosystem. So really, you know, thinking about how we need to show up in those different spaces and places. Again, early days, but a lot more to come.

Sarah Hofstadter (9:59)

Even if it's not AI, the idea to your point of responding to culture or you know, particular moments and things like that, like how do you think through the orchestration of it all when there are so many stakeholders and quick decisioning is critical, how is as a leader, do you think about what needs to be true to make that happen?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (10:18)

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I think we have to be clear in terms of what our North Star is, whether that's from an organization or from a campaign or project perspective. I think having the right people in the room at the right time is really critical. And again, like I'm really about bringing those kind of cross functional perspectives into the room. I think also, and I said up front, like putting the audience at the center, you know, starting with that first. And where can we automate in a thoughtful way and where can we obviously accelerate into market the most effective way?

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Chelsea Bakken (11:28)

Does using social media ever make you feel like you're just yelling into an algorithmic void? That feeds have started to feel a lot less, you know, social? Well, we're doing something about it. I'm Chelsea Bakken, head of audience development and social at Adweek and I'm so excited to invite you to Social media week this April 14th through 16th. We're bringing together creators, marketers and social leaders in a vibrant IRL space in New York City for three days of connection, collaboration and learning. You'll get the chance to dish on the latest tools and tricks, hear fresh perspectives on the year's most viral moments, and get the slot free inspiration you need to connect with your audience and optimize performance. Head to adweek.com events to learn more.

Rachel Tippograph (12:11)

So Jen, now that you have been on the other side, brand side, but agency within, you also have an amazing career working at some of the big agency holding companies, do you think one model is better over the other?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (12:24)

So I don't know that one model is better over the other. I will say I feel like I'm one of the luckiest people in the world. I'm working at Lego, right? So if I had have said any of the brands and businesses I wanted to work for, LEGO was in the top one probably for sure. I think in terms of how we work, it's a privilege. You are really side by side with your business partners. You're, you know, you're first in in terms of planning and, you know, market insights and again going back to the audience. So I feel like it is a privilege to be in house. Obviously there's benefits of being on the outside world. You're working with multiple businesses and brands and, and products, et cetera. But early days again for me right now and I'm loving it.

Rachel Tippograph (13:08)

So within your role, you are overseeing experiences that span lego.com, the Lego physical retail stores and third party retailers like Amazon, Target, Walmart first. How do you think about the role of each one of those channels and then knowing it's Lego, how do you think about trying to have a cohesive brand experience across those channels?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (13:29)

Yeah, well first of all, aren't I lucky when I think about all of those channels and having the ability to influence those It's a really great question and like the answer almost sits within it, to be honest. I think again, starting with the audience, making sure that we're thinking about what are those journeys, what are those ecosystems, why are people going to be in certain spaces and places and what do we need to achieve is the first place that I think we need to start. And also being really choiceful and deliberate about not having channels compete with each other. There's a reason that we want people to go into our LEGO stores and at the same time, obviously our very valued partners play an important role as well. So it's about actually, I think, knowing why our audiences will be there or who our audience will be, but also, you know, making those experiences specific to the channel. So again, as we think about, for, you know, from a LEGO perspective, it's really about thinking about that ecosystem. Thinking again, as I said up front, like brand moments and transaction moments aren't mutually exclusive. How are we going to show up together so we can meet our audience and consumers as and when they want to interact with lego? It also for us requires having the right talent at the table. So as we're building out even our model right now, making sure that we have those specialisms for people that understand our key accounts, people that understand dot com, people that understand retail innovation and expand experience going on a bit of a ramble. But a great example for me right now is smart play that you will have seen has launched. So the smart brick and it's obviously a new product, new launch. We really had to lean into showing up differently, you know, from a, even from a commerce ecosystem perspective. Video matters, like actually explaining what does this product do, how do you interact with it? Making PDPS a lot more immersive than they've been before. But then, you know, in store, making sure that play on brick and again, demos in store, really interactive so that people understand the product. I don't know if I've answered your question. I've gone on a ramp. But just to say, you know, I think we really have to be thoughtful around what is the product, what is kind of our campaign and then obviously who are our audiences and where do we need to show up?

Rachel Tippograph (15:54)

Does the organization have a preference between D2C and third party retail?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (15:59)

I don't think there's a preference. I think again, they have a role to play. Obviously our Lego store and lego.com are incredibly important. They're our flagship, they're our brand lighthouse. We have money, can't buy experiences in there and they need to be Beautiful for our, our audience and consumers. But I think, you know, third party retail again is a core part of our ecosystem and some an incredibly important part of how we show up.

Sarah Hofstadter (16:24)

Now that you've got a lay of the land of, you know, the different channels and designing these experiences that are right for the channel, let's talk about it from the perspective of the consumer. You guys have been, you have long product cycle innovation, like you guys plan very far out, but there's also short term things that end up coming up and you guys always seem to be at that intersection of culture while still having these, you know, very lengthy planning cycles. So it just shows a high degree of agility in your role both with this agency, ecommerce and all these different things kind of happening. How do you balance that long term brand planning cycles with the real time nature of how to be aligned with the consumer?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (17:14)

Yeah, I think it's a really great question and I think it's about two things being true at the same time honestly. Like we need to separate out the needs of what needs to be fixed and then what really needs to be flexible. And obviously for the Lego business we have that long term horizon. As you said, from a campaign perspective, from an IP perspective, big global storytelling, but you know, everything around it, as you said, like how we show up from a culture perspective. In commerce and media, we need to be dynamic. So as I think about that, it's again making sure that we have the right team expertise at the table so that we can actually execute where we need to. But at the same time it's about making sure that we're planning in a dynamic way. So I think about Stranger Things. We actually launched with the season five finale, so that actually made sense. But also there's things that are outside campaign planning that we can be very active in to make sure that we're showing up in the right way and learning in the right way. So we're whether that's from a live shopping perspective or experimenting. I mentioned PDPs but I go back to that. Again, looking@.com, knowing that we have stores opening regularly, how are we kind of, you know, experimenting from an experience and innovations place there. So again, I think there's a bit of a ying and a yang, but we're definitely working through how we can, I guess, be as agile as possible in the commerce space.

Rachel Tippograph (18:46)

You've talked about some of these cultural moments, like Stranger Things for example. And I've been noticing Lego has been doing more and more real physical experiences. Whether it's CES or immersive retail. And it feels like you might be going after adults, not just kids. And I don't know if there's like a demographic cutoff point, but when you think about how physical experiences are driving commerce, what's the organization going after? Like, are these brand building moments, are these sales moments? Like how do we think about it?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (19:20)

Yeah, again, I don't think they're completely separate if I'm being honest. But I think we're at an inflection point where we're seeing that our consumers are wanting more IRL experiences. I saw a stat last week actually. I think 64% of our Gen Z's would prefer to be in store than online. That means we need to show up. But I don't think that every experience needs to necessarily when we're thinking about commerce and storytelling, that every experience needs to drive an immediate purchase. But they play an important role in commerce, you know, whether they buy in store or not. I think we need to make sure that we are like thinking about it as part of our ecosystem and also making an amazing experience. I think, you know, they build an emotional connection that provides long term value even if we don't see the sale immediately then and there and there. Also we know when people are in store they're actually creating content. They're creating this whole other universe that influences our commerce experience online.

Rachel Tippograph (20:20)

And does this work in all markets? Like Lego is global. Do you use the same playbook?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (20:26)

Well, obviously we have a global playbook as you say, but we also localize heavily. I think if you look at market to market, obviously Asia are ahead and retail is really, you know, treated as more entertainment. They're changing that experience frequently. It's deeply immersive. Obviously our again, like is that example of kind of that audience kind of social kind of, you know, second experience coming through online. We definitely take inspiration from Asia as we look into our other market. The other thing that I've been thinking about and you know, not new thought, but when we think about experiences, our audiences aren't just comparing us to category or other products, they're comparing us to the types of experiences that they're just having in their life. So you know, we think about the sphere or like the East Eros tour with the Swifties. We need to be showing up in I think a whole kind of leveled up way as we think about those immersive worlds and experiences. These are the expectations that are on especially I would say iconic brands and businesses like Lego.

Sarah Hofstadter (21:34)

So one of the things that I Find fascinating is when I ask other marketers what brands they're jealous of. So many say lego. So I have to ask you, what brand are you jealous of?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (21:49)

This is a really weird thing to say, but I don't feel like I'm jealous of any brand right now. I feel like, again, you know, I said it up front. I feel just so privileged to be working on LEGO right now. Like, even on the, you know, the outside lane, but on the inside lane, I'm constantly just so excited about what's coming through. We mentioned kind of the retail experience in Asia, like, obviously like the gentle monsters. I'm not jealous, but they're like, they're pretty cool and iconic how they, you know, a sunglasses brand can suddenly be this entertainment kind of experience, brand and product. But again, I just, I really do feel like there's just so much that we're excited about the lego.

Rachel Tippograph (22:29)

Well, Jen, we gotta ask you our famous last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (22:35)

Yeah. So look, I've gotta say, other than jumping out of planes, I think, honestly, moving countries three times.

Rachel Tippograph (22:43)

Wow.

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (22:43)

So I've lived in New York, in London, and now in Copenhagen. And I think, you know, not only was that brave from my perspective, but, you know, there's bravery of others around you, supporting you through your kind of new, new endeavors. I think, you know, very professional and personal.

Rachel Tippograph (23:01)

Can you stack Rank what your favorite is?

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (23:03)

I'm loving Copenhagen.

Chelsea Bakken (23:05)

Yeah.

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (23:05)

But I lived in New York for 12 years and I left London because of Lego, so I don't know, I've loved them all.

Rachel Tippograph (23:13)

The New Yorker has to ask. Well, Jen, we're so appreciative for you sharing insights of what's going on at lego. And we will continue to be watching all the creativity that comes out of that organization.

Jen (VP of LEGO agency Commerce and Digital) (23:24)

Amazing. Thank you so much for having me.

Rachel Tippograph (23:27)

If you like what you heard and you want to go think about the toy category in general, though, Lego would probably disguise themselves not as toys. Go check out an episode we did last year with the CMO of MJA Entertainment. Josh. And if you like what you heard, please share on LinkedIn. Thanks for listening.

LinkedIn Ads Narrator (24:07)

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Chelsea Bakken (24:40)

Does using social media ever make you feel like you're just yelling into an algorithmic void? That feeds have started to feel a lot less, you know, social? Well, we're doing something about it. I'm Chelsea Bakken, Head of Audience Development and Social at Adweek, and I'm so excited to invite you to Social media week this April 14th through 16th. We're bringing together creators, marketers and social leaders in a vibrant IRL space in New York City for three days of connection, collaboration and learning. You'll get the chance to dish on the latest tools and tricks, hear fresh perspectives on the year's most viral moments, and get the slot free inspiration you need to connect with your audience and optimize performance. Head to adweek.com events to learn more.

Jackie Cooper (25:22)

Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.