Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (2:43)

Welcome to today's episode of Brave Commerce. I'm Rachel Tippograph, the founder and CEO of Micmac.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (2:48)

And I'm Sarah Hofstetter, chairwoman of Profitero Plus. And this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (3:03)

Sarah, have you read the book Innovator's.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (3:05)

Dilemma a really long time ago? I guess that's probably.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (3:08)

Probably a good trigger to revisit it.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (3:10)

Wrap it off the shelf. The actual physical shelf, because I have the actual physical book. Because you know me. But tell me where you're going with this.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (3:18)

Well, I think it's a great book for anyone to read right now because we all are in a moment of insane change, whether we like it or not. No matter what you're selling, what your business is, and the whole premise of the book is in order to innovate, you have to ask yourself this existential question, which is, how would you cannibalize your business today? If you were your own competitor, what would you do to take your company down?

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (3:44)

The agitation. Somebody had said something like this to me. Be your own activist investor. If you were your own activist investor, how would you behave differently? Because people can talk about, like, be comfortable being uncomfortable or move fast and break things and other crap you can throw on the wall, but really, how do you poke holes in the spaces that you' in? And if you were to wedge something between you and your customer, what would it be?

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (4:11)

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's. Well, you're in a different position right now, but I'm still a privately owned company. As a privately owned company, as long as you have alignment with some of your critical shareholders, or maybe you own 100% of the company, you can do exercises like that and. And execute against them. Because you don't have Wall street breathing down your back on next quarter's numbers. It's absolutely harder to do that in a public company environment.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (4:38)

Absolutely. And as much as Profitero is part of a bigger holdco, I think in my little world, we get to still do that and agitate the business model and question, are we future proofing? But the question is, you and I are in the tech space. Are we future proofing for 6, 12, 18, 24 months, versus if we're in the businesses of the clients that we work with, they're certainly figuring out future proofing. But that's big ass business model for longer periods of time.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (5:07)

A category that's near and dear to both of our hearts is the spirits industry and it's absolutely going through a tough period. I'm sure a lot of folks have recently read articles about consumption patterns around Gen Z and just health conscious America, but when things are in a period of significant change, it's a great time to disrupt your business model and portfolio.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (5:34)

Please keep talking.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (5:35)

We're about to bring on Lander at Proxima Spirits and it's a privately owned company headquartered in Mexico. He's actually based out of the US and they have a long standing history of disrupting categories because they think through the lens of what's the future going to look like 200 years from now, which is really wild as a compass.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (5:58)

That's a hell of a work back plan. But keep your eye on the prize, right?

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (6:03)

Absolutely. Well, on that note, let's bring Lander onto the show. Hello, Lander.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (6:10)

Hello. Hello. Thanks for having me here. It's an honor to be part of this podcast with all the other leaders that you've interviewed in the past. So thank you, Sarah, and thank you, Rachel for having us here.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (6:20)

Well, we're super excited to have you because you represent not just a rich portfolio, but really a rich company history. You have everything from Cuervo to Bushmills under the portfolio. And with a portfolio that has such a strong legacy, what's your approach to making Proxima relevant in today's culture?

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (6:40)

Well, that's a great question and thanks for asking because I think it speaks about the DNA of the company. And if you look at our brands, we've always strived to have brands in our portfolio that have a very rich heritage. And in the industry that we're in, which is the beverage alcohol, as you know, consumers are gravitating and have always tried to look for brands that have a rich history and something that they can latch on to say, this is the type of drink that I want to be drinking. Because at the end of the day, this industry is more of a reflection of your personality. You choose it for the flavor, but you also choose it for what it represents and for what it stands for and what it does to you as an image. And that's how this category has been built for many, many years. And that's how the consumers choose brands. And the fact that we have brands, as you said, like Cuervo and Bushmills and all the other ones that we have in our portfolio, and the importance of heritage is that it allows you to tell a story that goes not only from the product quality, but also something that you cannot manufacture, which is the history. And in the case of the two brands that you mentioned, Cuerbund, Bushmills, you have the two oldest in its own category. Bushmills is the, the first and the original whiskey distillery in the world. So when people talk about whiskey, people think about Scotland or they think about American whiskey, when in reality, whiskey was created in Ireland and it was created at the Bushmills distillery, which is something just incredible. It's been around since 1608. And the same goes for Cuervo, which is the first tequila distillery, the first distillery pretty much in Latin America, and the first one to produce tequila. So those two brands carry a lot of weight when it comes to heritage and tradition. And that's something that has allowed those two brands to be alive and existing and thriving for hundreds of years, because consumers always gravitate to real stories, to real products that have heritage, but have also sustained into generations of different things happening while maintaining its core, which is creating great high quality products. So that's why for us, it's important having our portfolio of brands that represent that, because those are the brands that can remain relevant through time. But you have to always make sure that you continue to innovate and you continue to push the boundaries because you cannot sit in your laurels and just rely on history to drive these types of brands. You have to always be trying to look for what's the next stage for this category and how can I continue to be relevant for today's consumers? Because the consumers are changing, as you know, in your own world, they're changing faster than ever. In the past, consumers didn't change for decades or for hundreds of years when now they change pretty much every month. Their decisions and their span and everything has changed so dramatically. So it's a great balance of how do you keep that tradition and that history and that heritage, while at the same time, how do you become relevant to consumers that are entering the category, that are looking for maybe different flavors, different profiles, different ways to buy the product, different ways to explore it. So that's a little bit of the balance that you have to play with.

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Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (11:27)

Your competition comes from all over the place. Some of them are these huge public conglomerates, some of these are more boutique. I feel like you've got the Goldilocks situation, you've got the private ownership but massive brand equity. It seems like a perfect recipe for making a little bit of bolder moves and greater risk taking. Do you have any examples of a time that you've been able to do that, that maybe a bigger conglomerate would be, you know, concerned or, or too risk averse to take or a smaller one wouldn't be able to bet the farm on it?

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (12:01)

Yeah, that's another great question because I think it speaks about not only who we are as a company today, but how the company was created and how the company has persisted for so many years. So if you look at our original brand, which was Cuervo, it has always been a challenger and a game changer and a company then that, even since its first founder push the boundaries on what tequila used to be and what tequila could look like. So we started as agave farmers when there was no recipe for what tequila could be or what it should be. It was just it was being used in Mexico as a fermented juice that People would drink to celebrate or to get the effect of the fermented juice. There was no standards or no real recipe for how tequila was created until Cuervo got the license or the permission from the king of Spain to start actually making tequila. And tequila back then was more like a wine. And from there on until today, the company has been the one that has driven the evolution of tequila as we know it today. If you look at every single step in the process of how tequila evolved, Cuervo has been a spearhead of that since the moment that distillation was brought from Europe by the Spanish people that installed themselves in Mexico. For example, Cuervo was the company that started distilling that agave juice into tequila. But tequila was a smoky tasting liquid similar to a mezcal, because the way the pinas were cooked before were, you know, with wood under, under the earth in these, these pits. And Cuervo brought another innovation to the category after that, which was cooking the, the, the pinas in more of like a traditional, like an oven, a brick oven, which removed the smoky tasting tequila that today is more associated with mezcal. So that was another revolution that there was no recipe for that, there was no consumer study. They just kept evolving. The tequila as we know it now, we also created the first tanejo. So we put tequila in a barrel. When you saw other categories were doing that back in the 1900s with cognacs and whiskeys, and tequila was more of a popular low end type of drink in Mexico. And we created the first tanjo, for example, by putting it in those casks. And then that was another big change and a big evolution. Then I can go back a little bit more in history where we were the first to put tequila in glass, for example, we were the first to start exporting it. So now tequila is known worldwide and Cuervo was one of the pioneers that kind of put tequila on the map in every country. So we've not only defined what the product itself is like or what it should taste like, we've also defined what the energy is around the product. So if you look at tequila, you associate it with fun, with partying, with friends, with that social location that you don't really relate other categories in the same way. And that was also created by Cuervo. So if you look at what the company has gone through in its long history, it's always been at the forefront of innovation and challenging. And as you said, being a family owned company has allowed us to flex that muscle because we don't have to report to a very external board of directors or we don't have to follow the same rules and standards of other large corporations. We follow our guts as a company. We know that sometimes you fail. But if you look at the history of the company, most of the successes have come from passion and from driving the love for the category and making sure that every move that we make is a move that is in the benefit of the tequila category. And that has allowed us to risk a lot of things. And the most recent one, which has been a huge success in Mexico, I don't know if you're familiar with the Cristalino category, is another example that is more recent, which is something that again, those type of things don't come from a market survey. People are not telling you that they want the type of product. You just believe in it. You try a product, you think it's delicious, it's something incredible, and then you drive it. And now it's become the second largest subcategory of tequila in Mexico and the fastest growing one. So I think if you look at our company in general, we are lucky that we are family owned. We're lucky that we have a very passionate ownership and a very driven ownership that not only looks at the next quarter report, they look at the next 200 years. And that allows us to take risk that might not pay off in the short term and risk that other companies wouldn't take, but that in the long term, we know that they're going to pay off.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (16:09)

I mean, it's amazing just hearing the history of tequila from you. When you think about just day to day execution, how do you translate motivating employees towards a 200 year journey to everyday activity? It feels like there's a big gap between those two things.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (16:27)

Yeah, but I think it's one of our points of difference as well. And it's something that really drives the love for these companies. When you look at our portfolio and you look at our brands and people understand the value that we've created over time and the history and the heritage, people fall in love with the brands more than if you were just to create a product, a product that just came out. Knowing the last, even in the last 10, 20 years, there's not that rich history and heritage. And when people start seeing our portfolio, they fall in love with the brands and it allows them to sell it and to execute in a much easier way. Because when you have something that you're passionate about and something that you truly believe in, it's easier for you to Sell that product. And when people understand what the company is, not only because we create great products and because we've been around for such a long time and we have such rich history, but also because of the way we support the community in Mexico. We're the largest supporters of the tequila community. We brought so much innovation and technology to the town of tequila. We built schools. We were the first ones to start using the agave as a way to recycle the bioproduct from the agave and turn it into other useful materials, from composting all the way to straws and substituting plastic, all the way to water treatment plants. So when they understand everything that we do as a tequila company and what we do, not only for the category and for the success of the company as a whole, but for the community and the category in general, people fall in love with our brands and our portfolio, and it's easier for them to sell it. So when you understand those values, execution comes more naturally because you sell something that you're really proud of, and it's not something that you're selling just because you have to sell it.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (18:02)

Yeah. Mission Vision. Values. Motivating employees.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (18:06)

Correct.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (18:06)

Town of tequila. I just learned something new. I feel like I should have known this. Sarah, did you know there was a town called tequila?

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (18:12)

I might have at some point, maybe in college.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (18:16)

Okay, then if you don't know it.

Omnisend Representative (18:19)

Then I don't feel so bad.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (18:20)

Well, tequila is called tequila because of the town of tequila. So I figured that got a name from it.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (18:25)

Yeah, yeah. Learn something new. Well, you know, here we are, consumers of tequila, in the business of helping great portfolios like you sell tequila. And Sarah and I just learned this. But when you think about tequila as a category, we have tequila from our college years where we were probably taking shots, to now tequila at five star hotels where we're paying a premium. There's not a lot of products where I can think about that type of range. So what is it about tequila that you think creates an environment where you can have the low end and the high end.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (18:57)

It's a great benefit that we have as a category that you don't see in other categories, like, you know, your cognacs, your vodka. You maybe see it in rum, but I think rum is a kind of a different story. But that beauty of that flexibility that you have in tequila is something that has powered the category, I would say, in the last 50 years, where you have a tequila that can be drank neat for a short occasion, you have tequilas that can be easily mixed into cocktails. And then you have sipping tequilas that can go, as you said, all the way to your most luxurious restaurant or your most luxurious hotel lounge or whatever. So that flexibility allows you to talk to a broad range of consumers, but also in a broad range of occasions where if you think of whiskey, you probably assume, associate that whiskey occasion to a very particular moment. If you think about your cognac or vodka, you associate that to specific occasions. And tequila was more or less like that a few years ago, but it's evolving and it's been able to capture not only the amount of consumers that other categories have, but also the occasions that these other categories were used to own, like gifting, for example, or that sipping occasion, or that pairing with food. Or as an example, I wouldn't go back like even 20 or 30 years ago, but even like 10 years ago, if you go to the restaurants in any city in the US you could only see tequila maybe in Mexican restaurants and maybe some other more innovative American style restaurants, but you wouldn't see a tequila in an Italian restaurant or a Japanese restaurant. Now you see them everywhere. And it's been able to kind of transcend its Mexicanity and allow it to be more of a global spirit that can touch, as I said, any single consumer in any occasion. And the beauty of our portfolio is that we're able to capture that as well, because we have tequilas that go all the way from Cuervo Especial, which is our, let's say, our entry tequila for that consumer, all the way to brands like Roserva, La Familia or Maestro Do Bel. We have a tequila for everybody, and we have very successful brands in every single price tier, not only with different types of variants within its portfolio, but also with innovations that come with all aspects of how we make tequila. Because for most people, we're known for Cuervo because it's the largest one, of course, but most people don't know that we as a tequila company have four different distilleries producing a wide variety of different liquids, that we have the widest range of casks in which we're finishing and aging tequilas that produce the amount of different blends and flavors that we can come out with. And. And that allows us, as I said, to continue pushing the boundaries of the category and allowing more consumers to come in. Because once you try tequila, it's very easy for you to compare against other categories and say, this is much better. When you take a really good tequila, an aged tequila, and then you compare it to a whiskey or to a cognac, it's much better to drink a tequila. And that's how we're converting consumers into it.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (21:40)

That's a lot. And so even if we just looked at the tequila world as you've got new entrants into the category, or trying to get new entrants into the category, or you're trying to get somebody to move to a different price point, product discovery is happening in so many different places. It used to be you would go into your local store or you would be in a restaurant and you get a recommendation. You'd be in a bar and you'd get a recommendation. So for, let's just say the at home consumer, the biggest point of product discovery right now is the digital shelf. And the next one being social media. Social media is a good place for the storytelling tab and to talk about all of those mission and vision and values that you talked about previously. And when you talk about having different tequilas for every price point or use case or whatnot, it's a little more complicated to be able to do this in these tiny pixelated product description pages. How do you think about weaving your storytelling into that digital shelf?

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (22:39)

It's a very complicated matter, especially for our industry, not only because we're much more regulated than other categories, not only from an advertising standpoint, but also from a distribution standpoint. So any other category that's non alcoholic, you can sell directly to consumers, you can talk more directly to them. In our case, you have to go through the famous three tier systems. You have to sell through a distributor to get to a store, to get to a consumer. And that makes our lives a lot more complicated in the digital space. But over the years, there's been a lot of powerful tools like both of you work on a couple of tools that we, that we use for that. And I think that's been incredible for us to bridge that gap between our brands and the consumer. And the fact that we're able now to talk more directly to them has allowed us not only to learn about what they're interested in, but also to be able to cater that message to that particular audience, which is very important right now because segmentation has been probably one of the most complicated things for us to do in media with not only the proliferation of options, but the amount of time that consumers are spending and the way that you have to deliver the message in such a short time has created the fragmentation of the communication to be a very tricky thing. So I won't speak in the same Way to a consumer, if it's an entry consumer that is just looking for something. For this Friday, I'm going to be with my friends and I just want something to mix with whatever we have at home. That's a very different consumer from somebody that's looking for a gift, and that's a very different consumer to one that's looking to sip something by themselves at home. So every message gets tailored to that particular consumer. And the amount of information that is out there is also something that has kind of complicated matters because consumers not only shop the shelf, the way you said it, when they research online, but they also go to stores. And when they're in the store, they research again on the store and they take pictures and they look for recommendations. So our category is driven a lot by recommendations because as you said, since it's so complicated, people are looking for advice. People are looking for someone to tell them this is the right tequila or this is the right whiskey to choose. And the amount of information out there can be very complicated for a regular consumer to understand. So we have to make sure that our communication is not only very truthful and fact driven, but it's also rooted in things that consumers can understand. Because this category can get really, really complicated if you want to get very nerdy. So we have to make sure that we are talking to the consumer in a way that they understand, but that also helps us differentiate from competition.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (25:03)

And I imagine not making your life any easier, but there's a new audience which is AI and ensuring that the AI is picking up on whatever you want it to pick up on. So the world continues to get more complicated.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (25:18)

Yeah. And that's been probably one of the biggest challenges that we've had when it comes to truthfulness and transparency in information. Because as you said, AI is picking information from blog posts and it's picking information sometimes even from social channels. Well, there's a lot of untruthful facts out there that people claim them as if they were real and people just follow them. So you have from health and wellness influencers talking about our industry in a way that is not well explained all the way to people that are saying things that might not be truthful or relevant to that consumer. And all of that is being picked up by AI and they're creating their own versions of the truth. So you have to make sure that you know all of your websites have the most accurate information, that you're pushing your PR plan. So you're driving the message through other outlets that have that credibility. So The AI tool picks up the most accurate and the most factual information because it can be a double edged sword when you're seeing, you know, you're asking questions. And it's been very popular recently that you can ask questions and AI will spit out something that is completely false. So brand truths and consumer knowledge is a tricky thing right now that you have to make sure that you're constantly searching and updating and fitting the tool so that it gives the answer that you're expecting.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (26:30)

Well, Lander, we gotta ask you our famous last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (26:36)

Well, I thought about the answer from a personal and a professional way, but I think the professional is better for this context. Personally, I've done a lot of great things. I've parachuted, jumped all the bungees you can imagine. I've had encounters with bears. So I've been in a lot of brave situations like that. But I think that what's more relevant here is for the sake of this conversation, probably the bravest thing that I've done was obviously move to another country. From a career standpoint, I think that's something that is always scary and risky and something that is very doubtful when you're, when you're considering your choices, when you have a good life, you're safe and you're happy where you are and suddenly you get these types of opportunities that you're not actively looking for. But I don't regret that decision. I think it's been an amazing journey working in a different country and learning a very different industry and a very different type of way of marketing our products. And at the same time, what it allowed me is to bring that risky kind of mentality and that kind of innovative vision that the owners have in Mexico to the US market and allow the company to continue pushing the boundaries and not rest in our laurels, as we said before. Because the consumer dynamic in the US is much different than it is in Mexico when it comes to the pace and the competitive landscape. So that kind of DNA and that energy that the company has in Mexico is something that was really important for us to bring into other regions. So to me, that was probably the bravest thing from a professional standpoint. But at the same time, it has allowed us to create a lot of different things in the US and being brave, I can tell you one of the bravest projects that I was part of in the US was building a distillery in the middle of Manhattan. I think that was probably one of the riskiest move from the vision of the owner who he's a big fan of New York City. He loves the city and he was always kind of wondering why there wasn't a distillery in Manhattan when there's distilleries in every state of the country. And I think we quickly realized why because it's almost impossible to distill alcohol in the middle of a city like Manhattan. But it took us about seven years to crack the code and to figure it out. And with a group of very professional and very nimble and very innovative people, we were able to pull it off. And today, great Jones Distillery is sitting there in the middle of Manhattan. So if you haven't visited, please stop by because it's an incredible proposition.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (28:57)

It's very cool. It's about a five minute walk actually from both of our offices, Sarah, we should meet there one day.

Sarah Hofstetter, Chairwoman of Profitero Plus (29:03)

Yeah, I'm in full agreement.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (29:06)

I know someone that can give you some free whiskey.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (29:08)

Oh great. I wasn't even going to ask for a freebie. Well, Lander, we're so appreciative for you to share your story, the Proximo story, the history of tequila. There's, I mean, I learned so much and I should have already known some of these things. So we appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us.

Lander, Proximo Spirits Executive (29:25)

Thank you both and it's an honor and as I said, congratulations to both of you on your success. We love your two companies and we hopefully continue to work with you in the future.

Rachel Tippograph, Founder and CEO of Micmac (29:35)

If you like what you heard and you want to listen to more episodes where these leaders share great strategic frameworks to help you move your business forward, go check out a recent episode we did with the GM of Quest Nutrition Stewart. Or an episode a little further back about a year ago with the founder and CEO of PIM Brands. If you like what you heard, tell a friend. Rate a review. Thanks for listening.

Experian Representative (30:17)

Finding the right audience shouldn't feel like doom scrolling with Experian. It doesn't. Experian syndicated audiences help you reach holiday shoppers, car buyers and more across over 200 top platforms with over 2,400 pre built audiences. There's no more doom scrolling. It's audience targeting you can trust. Made simple. Learn more at experian.com adweek that's E-P-E-R-I-A-N.com adweek.

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Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman (31:19)

Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming center stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.