← BRAVE COMMERCE
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- [00:00]
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- [00:31]
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- [00:41]
Rachel Tippograph
I need a coffee and you need.
- [00:43]
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- [01:06]
Tracksuit Ad
We know brand growth equals business growth, but do your stakeholders Tracksuit is an affordable always on brand tracking dashboard that helps marketers and agencies prove the impact of their work on brand metrics over time. Benchmarked against competitors. Built from best in class methodology, the Tracksuit dashboard is accessible and easy to understand for everyone from CSOs and CMOs to CFOs and founders. Research shows that brand investment in good economic times and bad is essential to driving sustainable growth. The bottom line, turning off the brand tap will cost you in the long run. Tracksuit gives marketers and agencies a common language to measure and communicate brands impact without the $100,000 price tag. Their in house research experts will have your survey live and your full marketing funnel and brand perceptions visible in just 30 days. Check tracksuit out@gotracksuit.com.
- [02:08]
Jenna Steele
I would say we are seeing change like 50 years worth of change in maybe the last three since COVID times. I mean you think about the distributor landscapes, all of the macroeconomics that are happening right now, the GLP1 introduction, some game changing things for a lot of people which is driving changes in consumption patterns and then this category Curiosity, the 2018 farm bill that allowed hemp beverage that is creating a lot of upset in the category. But really we're thinking of this as just continuing to understand the consumer and the consumer mindset.
- [02:46]
Host
Welcome to today's episode of Creative Commerce.
- [02:49]
Rachel Tippograph
I'm Rachel Tippograph, the Founder and CEO.
- [02:51]
Jenna Steele
Of MIC Mac and I'm Sarah Hofstadter.
- [02:53]
Host
Chairwoman of Profitero plus and this is.
- [02:55]
Rachel Tippograph
A show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest Brad. Sarah, I don't know if you can talk about this the way that I'm going to ask the question. Clearly we did not rehearse this, but Profitero got acquired by Publicis. You're now a part of the largest agency holding company and there's always continued dialogue at the ecosystem of, of whether you go to one shop for all of your needs or you have a slew of partners to meet your precise needs. But it requires probably more oversight and management on your end. Where do you sit in this debate?
- [03:38]
Host
Where do I sit in this debate? Where do I sit pre and post acquisition? My perspective is the same is ultimately anybody in this world any decision at all, is you want simplification without the loss of expertise. And so long as you can get a simple answer, a simple approach to anything with the confidence level that you're going to get the expertise when it comes to the ability to do whatever that function is, why not consolidate? But sometimes specifically in the tech world, and we saw this 15 years ago in search and 10 years ago in social, or actually 20 years ago in search 15 years ago in social, where the typical agency model was not designed around the formats that were becoming more and more prevalent. So 20 years ago, search something that is bought via text. The creative is text. The method of purchase is auction. And we're used to sight sounds, emotion negotiated over three martini lunch. Same thing with social. Social was. Wait, our consumers are becoming creators? No, no, no. We're the brand. We tell you how to do it. So in the early stages of anything, you want that specialization to really understand what it means to connect in the right format. Because if we would have started MySpace or Facebook or YouTube just throwing 30 second spots and making matching luggage, it would suck. So the question is, in our world, in the world of omnicommerce, where are we? Are we at the simplification? Can you really get a one stop shop for everything you need, including omnicommerce, or do you need that specialization? I think it really depends on the organization. Really long answer to a short question. I'm sorry, Rachel.
- [05:23]
Jenna Steele
Yeah.
- [05:23]
Rachel Tippograph
You failed at simplification.
- [05:25]
Host
I did, I did. I often do. It's one of my many Achilles heels.
- [05:29]
Rachel Tippograph
This just means the great debate continues. You know, we're about to bring Jenna Steele onto the show, who you can tell from the moment you meet her, she's a true Practitioner of leading overall digital and e commerce for organizations. And she can speak to the in and outs of how all of her partners help them and what she sees as the stack of today and then what will be the stack of tomorrow. So let's bring Jenna onto the show. Today. We are very excited to have Jenna Steele, the vice president of e commerce and digital at Rebali Wines. Hello, Jenna.
- [06:06]
Jenna Steele
Hi. Thanks so much for having me.
- [06:08]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, we're super excited. Especially get you in the summer when we're recording this because it's probably peak.
- [06:14]
Jenna Steele
Is it peak time for wine? Stella does very well this summer. Our wines are great over ice. People drink them over ice. We like them to do that. And very refreshing. So, yes.
- [06:23]
Host
Okay.
- [06:24]
Jenna Steele
Definitely hot.
- [06:25]
Rachel Tippograph
You definitely know the seasonality within alcohol because you've spent the majority of your career working in this industry.
- [06:31]
Jenna Steele
Yep, that's right.
- [06:33]
Rachel Tippograph
And so, like, what has kept you in this category?
- [06:36]
Jenna Steele
So my very first job ever, I worked at Abercrombie and Fitch in the early 2000s, and I was very obsessed with the entire Persona of Abercrombie. You walk in the store, it's the music, it's the scents. It was an entire experience. And I don't think I knew it then, but I think I'm drawn to the emotional connection between brands and consumers. And honestly, when I think about alcohol and the brands that I've been fortunate to represent for years now, I think it's that. I think it's really that connection between the brand and consumer.
- [07:10]
Rachel Tippograph
You know, Abercrombie was lost for a while, and it seems like it's made its way back.
- [07:14]
Jenna Steele
It is back. My much younger sister, very Gen Z, swears up and down. It's very cool now and like, they fell off the rails, but really, it's. It's a good example of a brand that's done a lot wrong and has been able to make a comeback. So it's. It's an interesting story, too.
- [07:32]
Host
In the meantime, you're in a category with a tale as old as time, if you will. It seems like wine. Wine goes back.
- [07:40]
Jenna Steele
Yeah.
- [07:40]
Host
Biblical. When people think about, like, the oldest beverages, they go to commercial brands like Coke and. Well, actually, like, wine was all the way in the beginning, and yet over the past few years, this category has been changing, like, insanely fast, particularly within consumer behavior. So help us understand what's going on and how are you guys thinking about it?
- [08:03]
Jenna Steele
It's funny. You brought up biblical times. So our company history, so we're 108 years old. And the reason that we were able to stay afloat in prohibition times is that we had a religious exemption. So we actually produce to this day communion wines. San Antonio Winery in Los Angeles. Absolutely still does that. It's really funny. It has come very full circle. The industry is at a. I would say we are seeing change like 50 years worth of change in maybe the last three since COVID times. I mean you think about the distributor landscapes, all of the macroeconomics that are happening right now, the GLP1 introductions, some game changing things for a lot of people which is driving changes in consumption patterns. And then this category Curiosity, the 2018 farm bill that allowed hemp beverage, that is creating a lot of upset in the category. But really we're thinking of this as just continuing to understand the consumer and the consumer mindset and finding products either that we currently have that we can adapt or creating new products or ways to reach them to get them additionally comfortable with our products and ensure that our what we're putting out there really fits a consumer need. It's kind of how we're thinking about it all. But yes, this category is interesting. There's never a dull moment. Right now the whole tariff thing concerns July 9's the next, the next date we're all kind of looking at. But it's never boring, I'll tell you that.
- [09:38]
Rachel Tippograph
I mean it sounds like you love the amount of change, but how do you keep your team focused amongst all of this change and focus on what matters to drive the business?
- [09:50]
Jenna Steele
So a lot of communication, that's key. Our tech stack really is a lot of it too. So having a reliable tech stack, a source of truth, different metrics and constant connection to say, okay, this is what we're focused on now. This is what's happening. I hear you in the news and I have a very, very open door policy. So obviously everyone I hope is very comfortable asking me anything and I can try my best to make sense of it for them. But there is some stability that we enjoy because we are family owned and have been for 108 years. We're not publicly traded so we're not worried about Wall street, which is great. We have the luxury of focusing on the consumer and our products so that really helps too.
- [10:38]
Rachel Tippograph
It's interesting, Sarah, recently we've had a lot of family run businesses on the show and that's a consistent theme.
- [10:44]
Host
You know what? Confection and alcohol.
- [10:47]
Rachel Tippograph
Yeah, keep it in the family, keep.
- [10:49]
Host
It in the family, keep it in moderation and a beautiful and meaningful moment of an experience when done.
- [11:00]
Jenna Steele
Classy you know, definitely gotta keep it in moderation. We absolutely, we have a lot of lower alcohol offerings that I think that's helped us too along the way. But there's a tremendous amount of change both in product offerings, both in trends. We're seeing no ABV but also high ABV wines at the same time. It's really funny and then trying to figure out all right, what can meet the needs in what markets and data really helps us get there as well.
- [11:29]
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- [11:57]
Tracksuit Ad
We know brand growth equals business growth, but do your stakeholders Tracksuit is an affordable, always on brand tracking dashboard that helps more marketers and agencies prove the impact of their work on brand metrics over time. Benchmarked against competitors. Built from best in class methodology, the Tracksuit dashboard is accessible and easy to understand for everyone from CSOs and CMOs to CFOs and founders. Research shows that brand investment in good economic times and bad is essential to driving sustainable growth. The bottom line? Turning off the brand tap will cost you in the long run. Tracksuit gives marketers and agencies a common language to measure and communicate brands impact without the $100,000 price tag. Their in house research experts will have your survey live and your full marketing funnel and brand perceptions visible in just 30 days. Check tracksuit out@gotracksuit.com.
- [12:59]
Wix Ad
You set the gold standard for your business. Your website should do the same. WIX puts you at the helm so you can enjoy the creative freedom of designing your site just the way you want. Want someone to bounce your ideas off, talk with AI to create a beautiful site together, whatever your business, manage it from one place and tie it all together with a personalized domain name. Gear up for success with a brand that says you best. You can do it yourself on wix.
- [13:30]
Host
Can we just break down a little bit because like how much is this demographic versus holistic consumer behavior? Like you know there's this whole idea of Gen Z being more super conscious and stuff like that. And then there's old folk like myself who if I'm going to have wine, I'm going to have wine and I'm going to enjoy it and I don't want to trade down or I don't want to trade out Is that generational thing, is that how are you seeing those trends breaking out in terms of meeting the changing needs of the consumer? But the consumer is so multi dimensional in their interests.
- [14:05]
Jenna Steele
Absolutely. I mean it's a great point. So with Stellarosa specifically, it is low alcohol. We do have pieces of Stella that are not, certain products that are not. So that's a great entry point for a lot of consumers and where they start. So we get a lot of new. About 27% of people who buy Stella Rosa are new to the category. So helping us tell that story to retailers to say, hey, this is a great entry point and it's important for the overall category. Finding products like that to draw people in I think is really critical to wine. But we, we look at, I mean for me, Gen Z, it's very, it's just as much macroeconomic as it is this wellness trend. I mean, I think wellness is important and I also think that's why my personal belief is that about five to eight years from now, wine is going to have a comeback. So in the 80s we saw bourbon Tank. I remember Brown Forman actually came out with a clear bourbon product because it was all about the clear spirits. Right. It was gin, it was vodka. That was what was in this industry over time has been very cyclical. I think wine is a great product that will have another renaissance because it does meet all these needs. Right. It's all natural. There's a lot of talk about sulfites, but there are more sulfites than many other products that people consume on a day to day basis. They take the blame for a lot of things. But I think wine has a wellness vibe to it that will be kind of rediscovered in the future. It's also about teaching consumers maybe what they like, help helping them navigate it. I think wine today is very confusing when I go to the shelf. I mean if you don't know what you're looking for, maybe you don't know what you like. So we also try to be very cognizant of that messaging and not coming across as very uppity or really pretentious. We want to be very approachable with. And that's true for all of our brands.
- [15:58]
Host
Can I click in on, on that last thing that, that you said? The idea that wine can be very complicated to understand the role of the person who works in, whether that's a total wine or a mom and pop shop or whatever it is. I mean they really are the consigliere in so many ways and they have to be educated Obviously you've got your distribut that kind of stuff. When you pivot that to the digital space, how do you use that to your advantage? Where is it an advantage? If you had a wish list for your customers on how they could improve the experience for new to category entrants like what would you do?
- [16:38]
Jenna Steele
We've done a lot of research with firms like Numerator to understand consumer behavior and what is their path to purchase and how are they researching and what can we do to make sure that we're more visible and maybe perhaps they're not even looking at the category because it's just, I mean if you've walked down a wine aisle recently, there are so many labels people are picking off. We call them critter labels. So like anything with an animal on it, just because people don't know what to choose and then there's all this research of and they're not sure what they like and is it sweet? And there is no real definition of sweet versus semi sweet which is confusing. Brands call it different things. So we online try to make a very conscious effort to have drive a lot of reviews so people can see what other people think. Because I think that helps lend credibility. We do a lot of work in optimizing digital shelf using tools like Profitero to understand what keywords people are using. And we actually partner with Walmart to show them that hey, people are searching wine. If they're searching just the word wine, they probably don't know what they want. Right. They're not looking for a Cabernet Sauvignon on they're just searching wine. So they agreed that hey, we're going to add a little button essentially a little pop up to say try these wines, these kind of more entry point flavors. And then we also focus on telling our flavor story a lot. But absolutely, I think it's really important that we continue to show retailers the data that exists to say hey, this is where people start, why they start here and let's help them do that. And of course online you can tell your story even better. But we've learned a lot through retail media campaigns as well. So we learned through Walmart Connect that beer buyers is a great which I would not have thought but beer buyers has been a great audience for us and it's driven a lot of new to brand. So being able to measure those things and pulling audiences on the trade desk seat and try to see what they do and learn their behavior has helped us continue to shape the strategy as well.
- [18:49]
Rachel Tippograph
You mentioned A lot of different parts of the ecosystem. So far we've been talking about consumer behavior. We've now talked about the retailers, the retail media groups. There's another big player in your world which is the distributors. In many ways they're your lifeline because of tied house laws that exist in the U.S. how are you seeing the distributors respond to all of this different consumption, consumer change?
- [19:11]
Jenna Steele
They are being pulled in more directions than ever honestly. They're juggling evolving consumer behavior, they're juggling new formats, fragmented occasions. We're seeing it all over the place like the. You read in the news the rise of the on premise now the decline of the on premise people are now staying in again. They're you know, again I think that's macroeconomic forces there but you know they're navigating these malt based RTDs. They don't fit the traditional models. So the route to market changes, the low and no categories exploding. So trying to how do you service a non licensed account if you are set up to service licensed accounts? So really yes they are our lifeline to the consumer. Every brand, every alcohol brand. Absolutely. The great ones are becoming more data driven and more digitally enabled. So making it easy. It's almost like it's the same really concept as making it why we use Mic Mac to make it shoppable, to make it easy. Right. Make it easy for the consumer. The great distributors are making it really easy for their retailers to purchase if they want to buy it from a sales rep, if they want to call, if they want to use their portal, their B2B sites, those are really the keys there. But it's more challenging than ever for sure.
- [20:29]
Host
It's interesting. So you've name dropped a few different partners that you've worked in in the tech space and this is not meant to be a commercial for Proctor. Karen Mac, just to be clear, you mentioned numerator like you've been referencing your tech partnerships as enablers which I think is great in a marketplace that is still not as fully penetrated from a digpen perspective relative to overall food or consumer bowls or E comm in general but plays such a critical role in influence in the journey and making sure.
- [20:58]
Jenna Steele
That you're shoppable everywhere.
- [21:00]
Host
But given so much of your career has been in in this particular category and the last five years major focus on digital and E comm. If you could design like a perfect tech stack like what do you think of the key ingredients to win? You don't have to name like names, it's just more function but if you want to name names, you can name names.
- [21:17]
Jenna Steele
Sure, absolutely. So today, I mean, I would have answered this differently maybe eight months ago, but today AI integration for me is number one. I don't want to onboard another tool without it and I want it to be very easy to use because it's amazing. And I think stacking now AI tools is going to be the new. The new new, which we're not. I don't know that anyone is there yet, but I think that those tools will really make everyone's lives collectively easier and will certainly change the game even more than they already have. But realistically, you need digital shelf management. I really believe in owning your content. I know a lot of alcohol brands, they tend to outsource this. I have not seen that work very well because it's sites change and your content changes and you need to be able to be nimble. So, you know, I'm a big fan of Salsify. We use it for syndication and content control. You need analytics to tell you, okay, does this match or does it not? At a minimum, you also need to understand just keyword usage across different sites. So those two things are really what we're tapping in to Profitero and we've been partners for 3ish years now, been really happy with that to understand digital shelf. And it can do much more than that. But you at a minimum need that and then you really need Alcohol has to have a buy now interstitial. So it's not legal for us to just direct derive places. So having a partner like mcmac that allows you to make that happen, make it shoppable and also in a compliant manner is really important. There's also tools in the back end to tell us, okay, what did this do and where did it drive? We've actually taken those insights and shared them with retailers. That's been great. But getting kind of the most out of that partnership and speaking of that, strong partners are a must. We don't have a model where we have like an aor. We kind of are able and allowed to choose our partners and we have been just very lucky to have. So I mean, Epsilon is a big partner of ours. Goodway Group is a great partner. We have used MIQ in the past. They were fantastic to help us navigate this new world of retail media where we were the first wine to advertise on Walmart Connect. We also were the first on Total Wines rmn. We also were able to use our partnership with MIQ to they figured out how we could have a co Campaign on Walmart. Connect with Contadina. So a non alcohol brand with Stella Rosa. So that was really great. But having partners to willing to test and learn and you can have a fancy like mmm and that's really cool and fun or you can do you just need some sort of source of truth or repository to keep everyone on the same page. So I like tap clicks. It's you know, port APIs of data into so you're not looking at 8,000 different dashboards every day. That's also really helpful. But I mean that's, those are like the really key ones. But, but at the end of the day tech only works if the team is empowered to think differently and to use it and to bring new ideas forward. So that's something that's really important to us as well.
- [24:34]
Rachel Tippograph
Jenna, I'm going to make everyone at my company listen to that last little bit. But I think it's just you're not going to say this because you're a humble person, but a big part of this partnership success is you as the leader driving it. First of all you, you named everyone partner, not vendor. I think language matters in terms of how you see the person and then you setting the tone with your team that these are the partners that are going to help us grow your business. I have to say, you know Mic Mac works with 2500 plus brands. That's not the tone in every organization. And so per your point, a big part of partnership success is, is the environment that you create to allow your internal and external team to win together.
- [25:17]
Jenna Steele
Thank you. You're way too kind. I do believe that I think it has to be a partnership, I mean distributors too. Those partnerships are the most key to our success, our mutual success as brand owners and distributors. I mean that's, I think that it kind of comes from, from that just being in this industry my entire career, you, you catch more flies with honey and it works.
- [25:41]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, we, we could listen to you all day but we have to ask you our famous last question which is what's the bravest thing you've ever done?
- [25:49]
Jenna Steele
All right. I wasn't waiting for this one. So leaving Brown Forman after over a decade to join Rebely and build the E Com function from scratch was a massive leap for me. It was a new environment. Obviously it's privately held. It's just very, very different from a like old school, 150 plus year old public company. It's really pushed me to lead in new ways. So that's, that's really the most recent example, but the instinct to bet on myself showed up earlier too. So I moved to Los Angeles when I was 21 for an internship at Guess. I knew not a soul. And the funny part of that is the GUESS corporate office is only a few miles away from Rebaly's headquarters, and I had not been back to Los Angele since I left that internship many years ago at the start of my career in alcohol when I was 21. And so it was really full circle for me and I just continued willingness to step into the unknown has shaped my career and hopefully my future chapters. So thanks so much. I really appreciate you having me.
- [26:56]
Rachel Tippograph
We loved having you. Thank you for letting us pick your brain. So many changes happening with you in your industry and it's amazing to see you at the forefront.
- [27:04]
Jenna Steele
Thanks. Have a great day.
- [27:08]
Rachel Tippograph
If you like what you heard and you want to hear from other leaders within the bev al space that also are leading the charge when it comes to digital transformation, go check out a recent episode we did with Brad Feinberg at Molson Cores. If you like what you heard, tell a friend. Thanks for listening.
- [27:41]
Tracksuit Ad
We know brand growth equals business growth, but do your stakeholders Tracksuit is an affordable, always on brand tracking dashboard that helps marketers and agencies prove the impact of their work on brand metrics over time. Benchmarked against competitors. Built from best in class methodology, the Tracksuit dashboard is accessible and easy to understand for everyone from CSOs and CMOs to CFOs and founders. Research shows that brand investment in good economic times and bad is essential to driving sustainable growth. The bottom line? Turning off the brand tap will cost you in the long run. Tracksuit gives marketers and agencies a common language to measure and communicate brands impact without the hundred thousand dollar price tag. Their in house research experts will have your survey live and your full marketing funnel and brand perceptions visible in just 30 days. Check tracksuit out@gotracksuit.com.
- [28:43]
Omnisend Ad
You set the gold standard for your business. Your website should do the same. Wix puts you at the helm so you can enjoy the creative freedom of designing your site just the way you want. Want someone to bounce your ideas off? Talk with AI to create a beautiful site together. Whatever your business, manage it from one place and tie it all together with a personalized domain name. Gear up for success with the brand that says you best. You can do it yourself on wix.
- [29:14]
Jackie Cooper
Hi I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network my dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future. It will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.