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BRAVE COMMERCE
Sephora’s Zena Arnold on Navigating Trends, Shaping Discovery, and Marketing at the Speed of Culture
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- [00:01]
Chelsea Bakken
Does using social media ever make you feel like you're just yelling into an algorithmic void? That feeds have started to feel a lot less, you know, social? Well, we're doing something about it. I'm Chelsea Bakken, head of audience development and social at Adweek, and I'm so excited to invite you to Social media week this April 14th through 16th. We're bringing together creators, marketers, and social leaders in a vibrant IRL space in New York City for three days of connection, collaboration, and learning. You'll get the chance to dish on the latest tools and tricks, hear fresh perspectives on the year's most viral moments, and get the slot free inspiration you need to connect with your audience and optimize performance. Head to adweek.com events to learn more.
- [00:41]
Darina
Hi, I'm Darina, co founder of Quo. If you run a business, you know, the team that responds first wins the customer. You've probably opened your phone to a bunch of missed calls and no voicemails. Those are missed opportunities and exactly why we built Quo. Quo is the business phone system that helps your team handle every call and text right away. Join over 90,000 businesses that win more customers with Quo. Try Quo for free@quo.com tech. That's Quo.com tech.
- [01:13]
LinkedIn Ads Announcer
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. A network of 130 million of them. In fact, you can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills, and. Did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started@LinkedIn.com Campaign terms and conditions apply.
- [01:48]
Zena Arnold
For us, a lot of it is what's the content you create and engagement you have in your feed. But it's beyond that, too. You know, I think today our customers, we know, want not just, you know, great products. They want value, they want convenience, they want experiences. So we think about this and it manifests in a lot of different ways. You know, we have a really strong personalization program that we take a lot of great signals that we get from our clients to give them the data and the things that they want to see when they want to see it.
- [02:26]
Sarah Hofstetter
Welcome to today's episode of Creative Commerce. I'm Sarah Hofstetter.
- [02:30]
Rachel Tippograph
And I'm Rachel Tippograph. And this is a show that talks about what's Relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, despite so many different changes in the industry, you spend a lot of time with cmos. What do you think are the core traits that make a great cmo?
- [02:55]
Sarah Hofstetter
I mean, number one is curiosity. I didn't know where this question was going, but hands down, curiosity. The CMO sometimes that you see jump from job to job to job, it's like you're wondering, are they just running the same play? But when you see them in action, you can tell whether or not they're curious and whether or not they're actually just asking the right questions about not just the brand, but the category they play in and culture 100%.
- [03:23]
Rachel Tippograph
Literally. When I'm sometimes asked to evaluate CMOs for whatever reason, my conversation, I'm just trying to sniff out how curious they are.
- [03:32]
Sarah Hofstetter
And you can kind of see, not to get nasty. And this is nothing about our guests. Actually, she's the exact opposite of it. But you see some of these CMOs that are just like hogging the spotlight, living their best lives on LinkedIn and on, you know, know, and on the main stage in Cannes, you know, on the 50 yard line at the super bowl. And they started out curious and then things get in the way and you stop asking questions and you start, you know, just enjoy being adored. And then there are those who really, truly stay curious and are in this relentless pursuit of finding tension, relentless pursuit of finding, you know, making sure that they are. They have their finger on the pulse of what's coming and how relevant it is.
- [04:18]
Rachel Tippograph
If you think about a business that has been able to remain at the center of culture and it has to, to be able to thrive in the categories it plays in, it's Sephora. I mean, I shopped at Sephora as a young girl with my mother, and today young girls are there shopping with their mothers or their fathers or their sons.
- [04:38]
Sarah Hofstetter
It's funny, I'm like, as a young girl, I'm like, I don't think that's
- [04:41]
Zena Arnold
a for then, but maybe they did.
- [04:43]
Sarah Hofstetter
If you think about what it was like to walk into Sephora as a kid versus now, how does it feel different to you?
- [04:49]
Rachel Tippograph
It honestly doesn't. I mean, Sephora was one of the first businesses that I remember engaging with that had a CRM where you could walk in the store and they knew who you were and what you bought last time, it was one of my first experiences and I guess data driven marketing and loyalty.
- [05:05]
Sarah Hofstetter
And so as you look at them today, is it that they just continue to modernize it were they onto a timeless classic that they adapted. Like how do you see it?
- [05:14]
Rachel Tippograph
I think they continue to be quarter their values but figure out ways to reinvent itself with the forever changing consumer.
- [05:23]
Sarah Hofstetter
Other than they really picked a smart CMO a couple of years back that you and I have been following and friends with for quite some time.
- [05:30]
Rachel Tippograph
Absolutely. And so on that note, who better to hear from on Sephora strategy than Zena, the CMO of Sephora?
- [05:42]
Sarah Hofstetter
I don't think the word beauty can be used without the word Sephora anymore. And today we are happy to have Zena Arnold, Chief Marketing officer@sephora us here with us on the show. Now Zena is a longtime friend of Rachel and mine, so we are so happy to finally have you as a guest. So welcome Zena.
- [06:05]
Zena Arnold
Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here with you both.
- [06:08]
Sarah Hofstetter
There's a lot for us to unpack. We've had so many guests on the podcast that are more on the supplier side. We have had folks from big, you know, enormous companies like l' Oreal and Estee Lauder and small startups, some of which have since been bought. Some who are just going from insurgents to main stage players. A space that is ever changing and the trends keep like changing so fast. You sitting your CMO role have to decide what are these trends that are actually going to take off. But there's probably a ton of misleading signals as well. So what do you think is the most misleading signal that CMOs are chasing right now in beauty?
- [06:54]
Zena Arnold
I think that maybe it's not one misleading signal, but it's the thought that brands have to respond to everything and show up everywhere. There are so many trends and beauty especially, I think that's what makes it fun. But it's important to have a filter on how and what you want to engage with. And for us, the filter is pretty simple. We look at does it reflect how our clients are genuinely engaging with beauty and does it align with who Sephora is, our values, our differentiators as a retailer? Taylor so we spend a lot of time listening through our community of clients, our teams, especially the front lines of our store folks, our beauty advisors and what we see in culture and we try to understand is something a real behavior shift, a deep insight, or is it just a moment that's getting a lot of attention? I think why we've been so successful is we've developed a system where we kind of respond in kind to things along that spectrum. So sometimes it's fun to do a quick comment on social for something that's just popping in the moment and then disappears. But then if it's truly a long lasting shift in behavior, we incorporate it into our briefs and more of our work. So I think the key is just having the system in place to kind of categorize the things you respond to what the appropriate, appropriate responses and ultimately just making sure that it's a conversation that it makes sense for your, your brand to be participating in operationally.
- [08:40]
Rachel Tippograph
Like, how does that all come together? Is there a meeting every week? Is there a dashboard? Like, I'm just so curious.
- [08:48]
Zena Arnold
No, I think it's really because we have built the expertise in our teams. Like again, if you really want to be a brand that is in culture and responding to things in the moment, you can't have a 10 step approval or you really got to build the expertise in the team. And I've got such a phenomenal team that we have built over time that knows our values and our differentiators so well and knows kind of culture and can kind of match the two and we put a lot of trust in them to be at the front line of engaging and we've been doing it really well. It's about people 100%.
- [09:30]
Rachel Tippograph
That's awesome.
- [09:31]
LinkedIn Ads Announcer
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. A network of 130 million of them. In fact, you can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills and Did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads? Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com Terms and Conditions apply.
- [10:04]
Chelsea Bakken
Does using social media ever make you feel like you're just yelling into an algorithmic void that feeds have started to feel a lot less, you know, social? Well, we're doing something about it. I'm Chelsea Backin, head of audience development and social at adweek, and I'm so excited to invite you to Social media week this April 14th through 16th. We're bringing together creators, marketers and social leaders in a vibrant IRL space in New York City for three days of connection, collaboration and learning. You'll get the chance to dish on the latest tools and tricks, hear fresh perspectives on the year's most viral moments, and get the slot free inspiration you need to connect with your audience and optimize performance. Head to adweek.com events to learn more.
- [10:44]
Darina
Hi, I'm Darina, co founder of Quo. If you run a business, you know the team that responds first wins the customer. You've probably opened your phone to a bunch of missed calls and no voicemails. Those are missed opportunities and exactly why we built Quo. Quo is the business phone system that helps your team handle every call and text right away. Join over 90,000 businesses that win more customers with Quo. Try Quo for free@quo.com tech. That's quo.com tech
- [11:17]
Rachel Tippograph
talking about changes in how people operate. You know, if we went back 20 years ago, Beauty would have these big product launches. There'd be like one big product launch per quarter and you put all of your energy and resources behind it. And that no longer works. Like, if I opened up TikTok at 11am versus 3pm, I would see eight new products. And so how have you seen not just Sephora shift, but some of the beauty brands shift to this idea that you need to be constantly launching?
- [11:52]
Zena Arnold
Yeah. Discovery today is continuous and it's not just driven by a brand narrative or product narrative. It's driven by creators, community, cultural moments that are appearing in people's feeds every day, every minute. I think this means you have to be very intentional about building your story over time. You have to show up consistently, you have to show up authentically. You know, I mentioned it earlier, we really start with listening super closely to our clients, whether it's through social, in store, our teams, and then using those signals to really guide where and how we show up. For us, a lot of it is what's the content you create and engagement you have in your feed. But it's beyond that too. I think today our customers, we know, want not just, you know, great products. They want value, they want convenience, they want experiences. So we think about this and it manifests in a lot of different ways. You know, we have a really strong personalization program that we take a lot of great signals that we get from our clients to give them the data and the things that they want to see, when they want to see it. But then I'd also say it's kind of the opposite side of the spectrum as well. People want to engage more with IRL experiences. You know, we have our Sephora, which is our biggest kind of consumer experience, where we have many, many of our brands and a lot of, you know, great Sephora experiences we bring together that people come to in person. And, you know, we were just commenting about this. We had the tickets on sale late last year and we Sold out in like minutes, hours versus the weeks and months that we did for previous years. Like people are just hungering for that. It's both of those things you have to really think about what's the consistency in showing up every day and in kind of personalized, relevant ways. And what do you do that kind of are tentpole moments when you activate that drive, that kind of energy and the experiences that people are really looking for.
- [14:10]
Sarah Hofstetter
So you are talking about moving at a different kind of a, of a pace here. And what's interesting is this is your first retail job, although you and I met many years ago when you were at Google. Talk about a company moving at, you know, lightning speed. But then we kept in touch through your roles at Kimberly Clark and PepsiCo. What is unique about being on the retail side and what do you miss about cpg?
- [14:34]
Zena Arnold
You know, people laugh when I say Sephora is more like Google than traditional cpg, but you said it. The pace and the quantity of things that we are always bringing to market is more like tech than traditional kind of brand calendars and activities. You know, we run thousands of campaigns a year since we launched so many products. I'd say we're also a bit unique in the retail world in that we put so much time and effort into brand building with the brands that we carry. And you know, a lot of retailers, they call it vendor marketing, which is, you know, working with the CPG companies.
- [15:16]
Sarah Hofstetter
But doesn't it make everybody feel so warm and fuzzy to be called a vendor?
- [15:22]
Rachel Tippograph
I never feel so small when someone calls me a vendor.
- [15:25]
Sarah Hofstetter
The V word.
- [15:26]
Zena Arnold
Right. But we do, you know, what we call it? We call it brand marketing because for us, you know, marketing the brands that we sell builds not only their brand, but ours as well. So we just, we put a lot into that. We know it is one of our differentiators is we are the ones who find and help build, you know, the hottest new brands in beauty in addition to having all of the, you know, know, big wonderful ones that exist. And we have that full spectrum of support that we provide to all of those brands. And, and it's, it's a conscious differentiator of ours and why brands want to come to Sephora and, and kind of why we do what we do.
- [16:08]
Rachel Tippograph
You know, thinking about the different ways that Sephora is now engaging with consumers, obviously there's been the shift to social. Then there's been the resurgence of IRL in real life experiences, communities, experts. And now we're sitting at a precipice moment as a Global economy with AI impacting every aspect of how we are thinking about work and engaging with consumers and driving the economy forward. So given Sephora's role in culture, how are you guys thinking about adopting AI or how are you already adopting AI?
- [16:49]
Zena Arnold
It's a fascinating new era in marketing. I would love to say that we have figured it all out, but I don't think anyone has. You know, ultimately our goal is to use AI as a complement to our people and ultimately in service of how do we have and deliver a better client experience. So we look at it in both of those lenses. We've got a number of things that we are doing that we do with and for our, our clients. We have like beauty scan in stor. You know, our advisors in store can scan your skin and find your perfect foundation, shade, match because that's one of the biggest frustrations of shoppers that come to Sephora. We can help you with your skincare, you know, based on what we read of your skin being dry, oily, et cetera and AI powers, you know, all of that. We've got an AI beauty chat on our site and our app, that's proprietary and there, you know, it helps clients navigate our assortment. There's a lot of great products we carry and they need help kind of doing that and we can't do that one to one in the site and app experience like we can do it in the store. So we're doing a lot of those things and that's kind of where we, we really lead the thinking. And then, you know, behind the scenes we think about how do we help the team operate more effectively, how do we do and deliver things at scale that we couldn't do before, you know, because we don't have enough people, we can't do the level of personalization and what are the tools that we can use to do that. So we're early on our journey. We're testing with a lot of different things right now. I'll say we have taken the stance of being really thoughtful about how we use especially generative AI. Back to what I mentioned at the beginning about our values for us. We've decided that we want to make sure that we are doing things in a way that supports clients, that supports our people and isn't just about how do we create a ton of AI slop stuff that we put out there. So we're doing it carefully, we're seeing how does it help enhance the experience rather than dilute it and just testing and trying our way there.
- [19:20]
Sarah Hofstetter
I mean, that's extremely prudent and especially in the beauty space. There's obviously going to be plenty of trial and error in AI, but especially when you start looking at it from the consumer experience. That's why I think Rachel's question was so poignant, because it was really talking about specifically like how you're bringing it to life, perhaps in the, in the guts of the ecosystem. You talked about personalization and automation and doing a lot of testing. Is there a moment where you're like, okay, I've tested this thing, or is there something that you're looking for that you say, okay, I've tested this thing. It's helped me maybe get my campaign sloshed faster. It's helped me improve my workflows at some point that you say, okay, now I'm going to put a little fuel on the fire. Like, is there like a moment that hits you on the head and says, okay, I'm ready to go from trial to mean? Or are you still in that trial of like, okay, we got to test a lot of things because we want to proceed quickly but cautiously.
- [20:15]
Zena Arnold
Both there, there are a number of things that we have scaled, especially in personalization, that we've seen have been super effective. You once again, when I, I get the relevant signals from people who are shopping with us and visiting with us and I can give them exactly what they are looking for. We see the business results and so, you know, it's, it's, it's really that we look at are things delivering business results and, or are they saving time? And the magical ones that we scale are both of those. So yeah, we've had several of those. But again, I would say not everything we've tried has been successful. And that's why we're in the test and learn mode where we want to make sure that we are trying things and scaling the ones that are truly effective.
- [21:11]
Rachel Tippograph
On this topic of AI, we're recording this in early February and about a month ago there was nrf, the big retail conference that was in New York and that's when Google came out and announced was their ucp. And it was this consortium of bunch of different players in commerce and retail coming together to create standardization. So I'm just curious, like how is Sephora thinking about the greater ecosystem? Is the stance let's build things ourselves or let's work together even with a competitor to create standardization?
- [21:45]
Zena Arnold
Yeah, I think it's still such early days that no one really knows where the industry is going to end up. And what I love about Sephora is We are always at the forefront because we have that kind of innovator's mindset of, okay, we can't just wait it out until everything's decided, then it'll be too late. So what can we do? Where are the partnerships we can form to test, to try things? Because ultimately we want to be in service of our clients. Where are they shopping? Where do they want to engage, learn about products? And we've got to be in those places to make sure that we maintain our relevance. So, yeah, we're excited about all the things that are coming. We're up for it. You know, I think in any big change and shift in how industries work, you've got to be leaning in and trying and knowing that many of the things that you try are not going to work. But that's just part of the journey and what you need to do to kind of stay at the forefront of it.
- [22:53]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, before we get to our famous last question, we talked about vendor marketing a few minutes ago, and we have a lot of brands listening in on the show. Brands that either are selling at Sephora or want to sell at Sephora. So for all of our brand listeners right now, what recommendations do you have on the best way to work with Sephora and maximize the opportunity together?
- [23:18]
Zena Arnold
Yeah, I mentioned it earlier. You know, we have been built on. It's one of our differentiators is brand incubation, long before it was really even a buzzword. And that mindset really guides how we work with our brand partners today. And I think last year in 2025, we welcomed 35 new brands to Sephora, which was a 30% increase over our recent average. So we have this continued commitment to identifying, supporting these upcoming brands. I'll say the gotten even more crowded. It's been crowded, but even more so. And I would say the things that we look for when we're looking at brands to work with us is having a really clear point of view on the vision for your brand. You know, the ones that really stand out are those that have a strong, you know, core identity, whether that's based on a person and, you know, their kind of vision for beauty, whether it's. It's based on a certain type of ingredient, whether it's based on a formulation, a texture, but really having something that's strong, core, differentiated, and a product that really fills a white space for our clients. Everyone's routines have gotten a lot more complicated. And I'm a beauty junkie, so I've always had a complicated routine, but now it's it's, it's just exponential. There's so many interesting products to, to try. How do you stand out and say that this is a white space that's going to provide a real benefit and know your, your, you know, end, end customer. We, we've, you know, got a gamut of brands. It's where, you know, if you really want to like me, you know, get into a, a primer for your, your, you know, mascara, you know, we've got that for you. And, and if you're a more, you know, simple, routine person, we've got amazing things too if you want a one product that does it all. So I think that we are in the unique space of being able to provide for so many different types of clients and types of needs. And I think brands need to be really focused on what are you delivering, who are you delivering it for, is it, is it meeting that kind of white space for them?
- [25:50]
Rachel Tippograph
I'm a simple gal and that's why I love the CRM Sephora, because I just walk in there and I go, wait. I forget what I use and they just look it up and that's it.
- [25:58]
Sarah Hofstetter
Boom.
- [25:59]
Rachel Tippograph
I buy it.
- [25:59]
Zena Arnold
See, we can do that. Simple, easy.
- [26:02]
Rachel Tippograph
So we gotta ask you our famous last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?
- [26:08]
Zena Arnold
I know you were today, you were mentioning this and I was trying to think about it. I'll probably go with a personal one and say the bravest thing is having a kid. My husband and I were, you know, high flying dinks. We had, you know, great life, doing a ton of travel, a ton of fun stuff, didn't necessarily, you know, want to have a kid, but we thought if this happens, you know, sure. And it happened a bit later in life for us and oh my gosh, it's been the most fun, transformative experience I've ever had. It's, it's something that I think actually makes me a better person at work. I feel like I'm more focused because I know that time is much more limited and I want to spend a lot of time with him. So I think it was brave because I was pretty selfish before. We both were and, you know, we didn't know about how this thing would go. And it's just been the best possible thing in the whole wide world for
- [27:17]
Rachel Tippograph
our international listeners who might know what Dink is. Double income, no kids.
- [27:24]
Zena Arnold
Yes, that's right. Double income, no kids. It's where you have no responsibilities and can, you know, do a lot of fun stuff all the Time at the drop of a hat. So that doesn't exist anymore. But I'll tell you, it was 100% worth the trade off.
- [27:39]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, as someone who has a five month son, I totally agree, it is, I think it has made me a better worker having a kid.
- [27:46]
Zena Arnold
So yes, it absolutely, it absolutely will. You're just forced to make more choices, be more intentional with your time. And you also have a reason, another reason to do the work you do.
- [28:01]
Sarah Hofstetter
I was a mom before I was a manager. I'm the exact flip. And so being a parent taught me how to be a better manager. So it's so interesting to hear the two of you talking about the, the reverse because I had kids super young. So it is, I think it's not that one is better, they're just very different and what you do with it is different. But I do think that I became a better manager because I was a mom. But I don't know what I would have been like without because I wasn't not a manager before. Anyway. Therapy on Sarah in the next episode.
- [28:34]
Rachel Tippograph
Well, Zena, thank you so much for joining us. We're so appreciative for your time and it's amazing to continue to see Sephora at the center of culture. Like one of the things we didn't hit on is just the longevity of the company and its ability to remain at the center of culture, I think is a real, a testament for what's going on over in San Francisco.
- [28:55]
Zena Arnold
Well, thank you for having me. It was great to chat with you both again.
- [29:03]
Rachel Tippograph
If you like what you heard and you want to think about brands where Sephora is a lifeline, go check out an episode we did last year with the president of Estee Lauder Amber or the head of global commerce from Wella Bianca. If you like what you heard, tell a friend, write a review. Thanks for listening.
- [29:46]
LinkedIn Ads Announcer
Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them and fact you can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills and Did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free 250 credit for the next one. Get started@LinkedIn.com Campaign terms and conditions apply.
- [30:18]
Chelsea Bakken
Does using social media ever make you feel like you're just yelling into an algorithmic void? That feeds have started to feel a lot less, you know, social. Well, we're doing something about it. I'm Chelsea Bakken, Head of Audience Development and Social at Adweek, and I'm so excited to invite you to Social media week this April 14th through 16th. We're bringing together creators, marketers and social leaders in a vibrant IRL space in New York City for three days of connection, collaboration and learning. You'll get the chance to dish on the latest tools and tricks, hear fresh perspectives on the year's most viral moments, and get the slot free inspiration you need to connect with your audience and optimize performance. Head to adweek.com events to learn more.
- [31:01]
Jackie Cooper
Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of them most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming center stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.