Jackie Cooper (2:51)

Yeah, I mean, a lot of entrepreneurs just troll the product review pages looking for opportunities to go manufacture unmet consumer needs.

Sarah Hofstadter (2:58)

Yeah, very big in that. Like you said, it's entrepreneurial, but it's almost like the Zara version of it. All those who have been capitalizing on those unmet needs in the market for the most part end up being a little bit subscale or don't turn into like these gazillion dollar brands. Except one.

Jackie Cooper (3:18)

Well, so you made a joke that you wouldn't have a business if everyone had five star product reviews. So I'm just curious, how many products do you often see get five star reviews on a percentage basis?

Sarah Hofstadter (3:30)

Oh, I mean, if I were mining the, you know, more than a hundred million products we track online and telling you exactly how many were five, I wouldn't know.

Jackie Cooper (3:37)

Okay.

Sarah Hofstadter (3:38)

I would guess not a heck of a lot. I mean, we've got benchmarks, but even think about yourself. What's going to be the tipping point of you buying or not buying something, something considered something more than $100.

Jackie Cooper (3:48)

I mean, it's reviews, it's price and it's shipping.

Sarah Hofstadter (3:51)

Okay, but let's say shipping's free and. But the reviews, what's the star count that takes you from an on the fence to a yes or worse, what takes you to a no?

Jackie Cooper (4:03)

Honestly, I don't think I'm buying something that's less than four and a half stars right now.

Sarah Hofstadter (4:07)

We already know where your Mendoza line is, if you will. Right?

Jackie Cooper (4:10)

Yeah.

Sarah Hofstadter (4:10)

So. So four and a half stars is like basically the benchmark. Somebody gets excited, they've got four. Four. It ain't gonna move the needle and it ain't gonna drive your search ranking either.

Jackie Cooper (4:18)

No. So imagine a five and a half billion dollar organization that is completely, maniacally focused on producing five star products.

Sarah Hofstadter (4:32)

Well, if you can do it, then at least you've got your focus like spot on. But that's ultimately how all brands should be thinking, right? Like, why do you want to make a whole bunch of crap where mediocrity, it's exhausting. But having that as your North Star completely changes the way you think about product development, changes the way you think about marketing. It probably reduces the amount of money you have to spend on marketing. If you make A really freaking good product that would get five star reviews. Pretty freaking common sense.

Jackie Cooper (4:59)

No, it is, but it's not a North Star for this organization. It's a requirement.

Sarah Hofstadter (5:03)

Man. I wonder who, who could tell us more about that?

Jackie Cooper (5:07)

Well, there's this company that has a lot of employees in the Boston area known as Shark Ninja, who is exactly that. So let's bring Neil, who is their chief Commercial officer onto the show. We are very excited to have a scaled disruptor onto the show. Neil Shaw, who's the EVP Chief Commercial Officer at Shark Ninja. Hey Neil.

Neil Shaw (5:30)

Hey, how are you? Nice to be here.

Jackie Cooper (5:32)

Yeah, absolutely. You don't meet a lot of executives anymore that have been at a company for 17 years and you've been at Shark Ninja for 17 years. So I'm sure there's something about the culture that keeps you there. But from a business standpoint, it's clear that over this 17 year journey, Shark Ninja has essentially gone from a single product to that I think was doing around $150 million in revenue to now a suite of products. According to your latest earnings, I think it was 36 categories, doing five and a half billion in revenue. That's massive growth. And we're just so curious to pick your brain on what is the strategy that's driving this organic growth.

Neil Shaw (6:11)

Yeah, Rachel, great question. Like you said, I've been with SharkNinja for over 17 years and it's been an incredible journey. As I reflect back over the last 17 years and how we've gotten from one category to the 36 plus categories that we have today. I think one thing that hasn't changed is our relentless focus on the consumer. And I come in every morning very excited because I know we are going to be solving new consumer problems. And you know, it's not the revenue, it's not the growth, it's not the markets that we are going to get into. But truly the exciting piece for us is how many new consumers we are going to reach and how many new problems we are going to solve. And I think that focus of putting consumer at the center and developing innovative products to solve consumer problems, going into categories to solve new consumer problems, going into market to positively impact consumers lives, you know, in every home around the world, you know, has led to us going from this one category business to 36 plus different categories has gone from just a cleaning appliance company to heated appliances, to motorized appliances, to hair care products, to skincare products. And that focus on the consumer has given us a right to go into areas that we haven't been in before. You know, we truly look at ourselves as a consumer problem solving company rather than an appliance company. And if we can find the consumer problem and solve it better, faster than anyone else at the right price point, we deserve the right to be in the category. And I think that focus has allowed us to drive a CAGR of 20% over the last 15 years in an industry that has grown at 2%.

Sarah Hofstadter (7:55)

Absolutely extraordinary. And how many aisles you play in today, how many retailers you support, every time you go into a new category, I feel like I'm getting whiplash. Whether it's walking the halls of Costco or something on Amazon, like there's just always something with you guys. So what are the signals that you look at before you decide, you know what, Slushy, that's where we're going next. Like how do you figure that out?

Neil Shaw (8:23)

Yes Sarah, that's such a great question. The idea stem from a lot of different areas, but as I said earlier, we look at ourselves as a consumer problem solving engine. Our job is to go find problems that either consumers are already articulating and they're articulating it through social media, through reviews. When we are in consumers homes and we are watching them utilize or go through their day, we are looking at problems that they're facing in their day to day life. So like there are certain problems that consumers are like, I wish there was a new way or there's a better way to do this and we are fast to pick up on those problems and create solutions to make their lives easier. The other part of it is there are a lot of problems that the consumers aren't able to articulate or they don't even know that a problem exists. The world wasn't waiting for the next slushie machine. We launched our slushy machine and we have 175,000 consumers on the wait list. I remember, you know, years back when we were in a one category business, we would look at launches like Apple and joke internally to say like, wouldn't it be great to have a brand where people are lining up overnight to get the next great product? Omnisend automates all the busy work for you. It can capture customers who abandon their.

Sarah Hofstadter (9:35)

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Neil Shaw (9:38)

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Neil Shaw (10:32)

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Neil Shaw (11:04)

And today when we see 175,000 consumers on the wait list to buy the slushie, it's so exciting because we are giving consumers something that they didn't really kind of say, when's the next slushy machine coming out? But we looked at like the consumer behavior and what they're doing outside their home and we said, is that a more convenient way to bring it inside the home so that the consumers can control the ingredients? They don't have to go outside and spend a lot to get this experience that they can get at home. And when we solved it, a slushy business was created and that category doesn't exist in the small appliance business. Like we created a new category and we're going to do millions of dollars in that category and we're going to reach millions of consumers in that category. And so I think the signals come from looking for consumer problems and consumer behavior and then solving those problems in a fast, high quality, affordable way. When we get into a new category, the four things we look at is can we bring the product to market faster than anyone else? Can we provide the best performance versus what's available in the market? Can we provide it at a very high quality and drive 5 star consumer rating and can we provide great value? If the answer to any four of those is no, we don't have the right to get into that product category, that is the funnel that we put every new product through. And that's where I think when consumers get a Shark hairstyler or a shark robot or a Ninja outdoor grill or a Ninja cooler. And then they go put five star ratings online. That tells other consumers that we can trust this brand to deliver great value and great performance. That is going to help us.

Sarah Hofstadter (12:41)

I love it. When we bought our first house, my husband's like, I want to get a slushy machine in our basement. And basically the only option was like to literally get one from like a restaurant distributor. It was our first house and I was very young and it was either we buy a house or we buy a slushy maker. I never posted that on Twitter, probably because it was before Twitter existed. The question of course is obviously you've got to know that without even people expressing it. So just so you know, I am on the wait list because we have had this problem statement. But I guess to kind of like take it one step further. How much of this is like tail wagging the dog or is it right place, right time? You talked a few times in your answer about this whole 5 star review being almost like the mark of success because it says yes, we obviously do have the right to. In a pre Amazon world or even pre Walmart world or any of these, would you have been able to get that feedback in a way that really would have gotten that kind of consumer endorsement? Because before you would have to go to like your appliance store and count on the rep to vouch for the brand. It's a totally different market now than when you started 17 years ago. But then again, this whole idea of ratings and reviews being so critical to that outcome, like help me understand the role that you guys see as commerce becoming that predictor.

Neil Shaw (14:01)

Yeah, great point. Two things. I think it's opportunity and a risk. On how you look at it. Years back when we talked about this concept of we'll build a brand one five star review at a time. I remember sitting with a big retailer and we talked about the reviews are going to drive the demand. And their feedback was, reviews are great, but consumers write about electronics and TVs and phones like nobody's going to write about a vacuum cleaner. And you fast forward a few years and consumers are writing long essays on a vacuum cleaner. Like every touch point, you know, they're writing about the blender. And it is so exciting. Like, you know, for me, starting the day with looking at what new reviews came in and ending the day with what are the social comments like, that is what matters. And even if you go before that it was Consumer's Digest, like consumers always Wanted some place to go get feedback on a product. You know, with Consumers Digest and other publications, it was a limited product set. There were the top 10 products and you then chose from those 10 products. You fast forward a few years, reviews started coming in. Then Facebook communities and social communities started coming in and communities started talking to each other about their experience with the product. And today, you know, you launch a product and within 24 hours you have millions of comments across the globe and capturing that consumer sentiment. I think we've been super focused on consumer feedback no matter where it came from. I feel lucky now where we have a platform with social media, with reviews, where we can get hundreds of millions of consumer data points every day. In the past we had to go seek it out. Now with that also comes a lot of responsibility because if you are not a five star product within the first week, you are out of the game because you know you are a consumer, I'm a consumer. Like we don't shop for products that are three star rated. Like we go and filter out anything that is below four star. You have to deliver on the promise of five star rating because it's no longer a publication saying whether the product is good or bad. It's not somebody's opinion. It is millions of consumers watching either a yes or a no based on the experience they've had with the product. We've stayed super focused on it over the last 15 years and as the technology has evolved and social media has evolved, we've been able to capitalize on it better and faster than anyone else.

Jackie Cooper (16:19)

You're highlighting the power of word of mouth marketing.

Neil Shaw (16:22)

Absolutely.

Jackie Cooper (16:23)

In a world that is now heavily predicated on social and digital, when it comes to marketing, that seems like a key cornerstone of the marketing strategy. But what other KPIs are you trying to optimize towards in terms of your go to market motion?

Neil Shaw (16:39)

When we look at our go to market, it starts with the purpose of we want to reach as many consumers as possible across the globe. And so we are looking at the entire consumer journey from research phase to when they walk the store or they go online. Consumer is trying to understand how is the product going to help them live better. And it's our job to make sure that through that entire consumer journey, we are providing the right information for the consumer to make the decision. And so whether it's infomercial marketing, you know, we do 28 minute infomercials, we do linear TV to tell our story, we have a lot of publication, we have our own websites, we spend A lot of time on content on retailer websites and our displays. We think every touch point with the consumer is an opportunity for us to tell our story and explain the problem to the consumer and the solution that we have created. And, you know, I'll give you an example. You know, over the last 15 years, I've received a lot of feedback saying the Shark Ninja packaging is all over the place. It looks like a carnival of stuff. There's so much information and it's actually really based on the consumer feedback. Like, we want consumers to understand the problem and the solution within 15 seconds when they look at our packaging, right? We are not trying to sell the premium brand, we are trying to sell them a solution. And we think if we can explain the solution in 15 seconds, you know, we have a better chance of converting that consumer than anyone else. And so the go to market is really based on are we getting our message to the consumer throughout their journey.

Jackie Cooper (18:16)

In the fastest possible way, just from knowing the brand. When it comes to social, I think you've said one of the key things that you also optimize towards is virality. And so, like, with that as a North Star, to drive towards, like, how do you get the whole team behind that?

Neil Shaw (18:32)

Rachel, it's so exciting. We are in the business of creating viral products. When something launches and you wake up next day to 10 million views, you know something amazing is about to happen. And you see the shares and you see the likes. And we've created internally this concept of threshold of virality to give you some background. Every time we look at a product within our product development cycle, we have what we call threshold of acceptance and threshold of excellence. Like, there are certain things that you just have to be good at on a product to be accepted by the consumer. That's the threshold of acceptance. And then there's the threshold of excellence. And that is the barometer for which we measure, like, what only Shark Ninja can deliver. We've taken that concept and said we need to apply to social. In terms of threshold of virality, how are we going to look at a product that we launch? How many views are we getting? How many shares are we getting? How many likes are we getting? How are the consumers engaging with the product? And we've created a proprietary formula internally that we look at every day that tells us, are we moving in the right direction or are we not moving in the right direction? And it comes from testing hundreds of pieces of content, right? Like when, if I go back 15 years and we wanted to tell our story, we would develop a 28 minute infomercial like that was one story that we could tell. Fast forward now and when we launch a product, we are launching with 40, 50, in some cases, hundred pieces of content that we are putting out there with different storylines and the consumer is then reacting to those. In two weeks we know the top 10 pieces of content that are resonating with the consumers that are going to drive virality. And that's the message that we can get behind. And so our ability to tell a lot of different stories through content, through influencers, through organic marketing is really game changing. And we look at it every day and say, are the consumers engaging with the content or do we need to change it? And if they're engaging, how do we amplify it? And the beauty of that now we have seen is as we are in 40 plus markets, there are no boundaries when we get products viral, when we have that kind of content on social media, we're getting inquiries for slushies from India and Latin America and Iceland.

Jackie Cooper (20:47)

And Iceland doesn't need slushies. I'm sorry.

Neil Shaw (20:51)

Last summer I was in Europe and Ninja Creamy was the number one trending item in Iceland.

Sarah Hofstadter (20:57)

Wow.

Neil Shaw (20:58)

And that's the power of social media and that is why it's so exciting.

Sarah Hofstadter (21:02)

As you think about the role that the media mix plays, so much of this is predicated on obviously meeting your thresholds and the proprietary ways that you're thinking about this. The criticality of earned media as a mechanism of endorsement. How do you even think about your relationships with your retailers and overall marketing investment? Are you just able to create sufficient demand generation by virtue of the talkability? Does it help you reduce that mix in the paid space? Does retail media get in the way of your ability to kind of game the algorithm because you game it so well everywhere else? How do you think about that?

Neil Shaw (21:41)

Yeah, at the end of the day, what we are trying to do is be where the consumers are. Right? We want to have Shark and Ninja products where the consumers are. And our retail partners play such a critical role. We do business with every retailer across the globe. We are retailer agnostic. We don't decide who we sell to, who we don't sell to. Our products are available everywhere and our partnerships with the retail partners is based on our ability to create the demand. They take a chance on Sharkninja going in all of these new categories and they take a shot with us by putting our products on their shelves. Our job and our commitment to our retail partners is we are going to send consumers to the shelf and it's our job to create the demand. Now through that consumer demand creation, whether it's infomercial or linear TV or social or retail media network, we look at all possible levers we have to pull to create disproportionate demand in the marketplace. And we'll pull whatever lever we need to pull to create the demand on products that are viral. On social media, we don't need to do anything else. You know, the consumers are talking about it. Organic content is taking over. There's so much user generated content that's driving tremendous amount of search and traffic with the retailers that the sell through is there. If there are categories that are not seeing that social virality, we might have a mix of infomercial marketing, linear TV and retail media networks that help us create demand. But at the end of the day, we are ready aligned with our retail partners on what does success look like. And then it's our job to deliver that success on every product that they're putting on the shelf.

Jackie Cooper (23:18)

As retail media groups move into what you were describing, more social influencer types of ecosystems, do you think that paradigm shift changes for you at all?

Neil Shaw (23:29)

I really look at it, Rachel, as you know, one plus one equals three. We are creating ownable demand, right? Like if somebody goes and searches for an ice cream maker, we are not fighting for that. Like when somebody goes and searches for a ninja creamy, like we want to own that, right? Like we are creating demand that is ownable to Shark a ninja. And so we are trying to partner as much with the retailers as they are investing more in social media. You know, how can we utilize their platforms to tell our stories? Like we have so much content, we have so much information on what's resonating, what's not resonating. They don't have to go recreate the wheel. There are a lot of other brands where the retail media networks is the sole consumer generation platform. And so there's a lot of testing that has to happen there for us. We already have a lot of insights that we can partner with the retail media networks on, provide them information and really complement each other in what we are trying to do. So that has led to a very two way street and helped us deliver some incredible results.

Sarah Hofstadter (24:30)

I have breaking news. I was texting my husband this morning telling him I was going to have you and we talked about the slushie and I told him that, you know, I'm on the waitlist and whatever and he said you got to get off the waitlist. I bought this for you. I was going to surprise you.

Neil Shaw (24:44)

Wow. All right, there you go.

Sarah Hofstadter (24:46)

He got it. The week we moved into our new home, like, I'm like, oh my God. I'm not. I'm just having a little bit of a. I'm having a moment.

Jackie Cooper (24:53)

Stay on the waitlist for me.

Sarah Hofstadter (24:54)

Yeah, you even got a deal on it. So we moved during like prime day week. It was October of 24th. But anyway, less about me, more about you and your brave. Back to Rachel.

Jackie Cooper (25:03)

Oh, that's cute.

Neil Shaw (25:04)

That's amazing. That's amazing. One five star review at a time. So we'd love to hear from you, Sarah, how your experience is.

Jackie Cooper (25:11)

Listeners, back to our regular programming. So, Neil, we have to ask you our famous last question, which is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done?

Neil Shaw (25:18)

I'm going to merge a personal and a professional brave thing. Years back when we were just one category business, we developed a new product in kitchen appliances and we were placed at a really big retailer, millions of dollars of business. And about a month before launch, we got consumer feedback that it wasn't a five star product. It took a lot of guts to walk away from that business. And I personally made that call to the retailer and said, that end cap that you've given us a year back, that product that you are so excited about, we've received consumer feedback and it's not five star product. And we are going to actually pull the launch. And this wasn't when SharkNinja was a $5 billion company. This is when each product mattered and each product was life or death. Like, are we going to be in business? And that was really tough. I distinctly remember the buyer at that time didn't say a word, took a pause and said, there is no other brand who would have walked away from this kind of business at your stage. And she said, you know, the fact that you're willing to do the right thing by the consumer this way, I'm not going to charge any penalty, I'm not going to charge lost sales. And actually, whenever you're ready, we'll bring the product in. I think personally for me, knowing that, you know, we did the right thing for the consumer was really cool and professionally kind of, it put us on a chart where it's not the buyer, it's not me, it's not anybody else in the company, it's the consumer. If you keep doing the right thing by the consumer, great things will happen. I look at it and say, like, we could have easily launched the product and would we have been the same company if that is who we would have become to just chase the next six months of revenue. But I think we did a very brave thing by walking away and it actually changed how we look at ourselves and how we look at the consumer. I'm personally very proud that the company did that and we were able to make that happen.

Jackie Cooper (27:14)

It's so hard when revenue's on the line to walk away. So it's an amazing story and I'm sure a lot of people who are listening have been there too. If you're not on the wait list, please get on the wait list for the slushy machine, but not before me. And Neil, thanks for all your time and wisdom.

Neil Shaw (27:31)

Absolutely. Rachel, Sarah, it was a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Jackie Cooper (27:36)

If you like what you heard and you want to hear episodes from other high ticket items that definitely care about product reviews, go check out an episode that we did in 2024 with Samsung CMO Sarah Larson. Or go check out an episode we did in 2023 with Chris Cowger at Dell. If you like what you heard, tell a friend. Write a review. Thanks for listening.

Rachel Tippograf (28:22)

Work Management Platforms ugh. Endless onboarding IT bottlenecks admin requests. But what if things were different? Monday.com is different. No lengthy onboarding, beautiful reports in minutes, custom workflows you can build on your own, easy to use prompt, free AI. Huh. Turns out you can love a work management platform. Monday.com the first work platform you'll love to use.

Sarah Hofstadter (28:54)

Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.