← BRAVE COMMERCE
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- [00:00]
A
Brand week is back September 15th through the 17th in downtown Atlanta. And if you're serious about where marketing is going, this is the room for you. I'm Jenny Rooney, chief brand and community officer at Adweek, and for three days we're bringing together the sharpest minds in marketing for the ideas, insights and connections shaping what comes next for brands. From culture and creativity to growth, leadership and consumer behavior, Brand Week is where brand leaders come to think bigger, connect deep, deeper, and leave with a clearer plan for what's ahead. Get your tickets now@brandweek.com and use code BW26 for 20% off. That's brandweek.com code BW26.
- [00:44]
B
Acast powers the world's best podcasts. Here's a show that we recommend. Hello American podcast listeners. Max Rushton here from the Guardian Football Weekly, which I think you should give a listen.
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C
It is good.
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B
It comes out three times a week and the podcast delivers you analysis, news, both the good and the bad from the Beautiful Game and maybe even the occasional laugh. He's angry about everything.
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D
He doesn't have a great poker face, does he?
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B
I would like to play cards with Bruno Fernandes. You can listen to the Guardian Football Weekly wherever you get your podcasts. Hopefully see you soon.
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E
Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com everybody who works on Dr. Pepper,
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B
from the brand managers to the social team and everybody in between, they are part of the one of a kind community. They are Dr. Pepper fans. The fact that we can say with conviction, with certainty that this means a lot to the community, because we are the community, gave us a lot of gravitas when we're taking it to our executive team that this is the right thing to do and they had our back.
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E
Brands that are willing to throw out their own brief, disrupt their own production cycle and really say, you know, this is what our community and fans expect of us in this moment. If we don't respond, they're going to be disappointed.
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B
Everybody felt so much pride that we were able to capture this moment, celebrate one of our fans, and really tell our story.
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C
Welcome to today's episode of Free of Commerce. I'm Sarah Hofstetter.
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D
And I'm Rachel Tippograph. And this is a show that talks about what's relevant in commerce for the world's biggest brands. Sarah, have you made a television commercial in your career?
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C
I have never made a commercial that was built directly for television. I have built content that has ultimately landed on television. But the brief was Never make me a 30 second spot. I've never received that brief.
- [02:50]
D
Nor have I. I've never worked in that part of the business. But one of my dear friends is a creative director and what he does for a living is make television commercials, especially for the Super Bowl. And what blows my mind is that at these big moments, brands will not just make one commercial, but they'll actually spend money on two to three and do a shit ton of testing and then ultimately decide to go with a piece of creative. I share all that because even though we're living in a 2026 time period where the cost per content has become significantly lower when it comes to big television spots, especially for live moments, I feel like brands still go about it in very traditional ways.
- [03:40]
C
It's a tell of two cities because when it comes to, like you say, you asked me if I made a television commercial. I made content that sends it up on television, but not through that whole process, all of the planning that goes into these massive investments. And I think now that we're sitting at the intersection of like World Cup, Wimbledon, US Open, you know, we just got done with the NBA Finals, like, let's go next. Damn right. It's about damn time. But as we look at all of those things happening, the importance of live television and capturing moments with big fat ratings, you put the real effort and dollars into it. And then on the other hand, you've got dynamic creative optimization with personalization at scale, and it's like all this disposable content. So one process is like carefully crafted and one is just pump and dump.
- [04:28]
D
Yeah. Which is why it still feels novel even in the year 2026, to see essentially, you know, social media, content creator, content, user generated content appear on live tv. It's funny that that's still so unusual in today's environment because that would require
- [04:49]
C
a lot more testing.
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D
100%. So when Kirk Dr. Pepper earlier this year aired a spot that featured a creator's jingle that went viral on TikTok at the college national championship football game, which is a huge moment for Dr. Pepper, we wondered, like, how did that come to be? And so we will all get to hear the inside the locker room story of essentially how a TikTok jingle ended up on one of the biggest moments of live sports. Let's bring Ben and Mike onto the show today. We are very excited to have two big brands onto the show. We have Mike Westgate, who's the sector lead of retail and global business solutions at TikTok, and Ben Silvan, the senior Vice president of connected Media team at Keurig, Dr. Pepper. Hello, Mike. And hello Ben.
- [05:47]
E
Hey, thanks for having me.
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B
Yeah, thanks for having me as well.
- [05:49]
D
Well, excited to have both of you on the show. I was reflecting and it's actually strange that we have never had a advertiser and a platform on the show together since we talk about that all day long. So this is a brave commerce first. I think we should probably give the audience a level set on why the two of you are doing this interview together.
- [06:14]
B
Yeah. So last December, there was a creator named Romeo who created a Dr. Pepper jingle that essentially broke the Internet. And the jingle was premiered on TikTok. And we worked very closely together across Kira, Dr. Pepper and TikTok to make sure that we gave Romeo the moment in the sun that they deserved. We worked together to identify that, that this jingle was really sweeping the community of Dr. Pepper fans. And we worked together to make sure that we were able to amplify and leverage this moment to celebrate our fans, to celebrate Romeo, and to celebrate our brand. And so this is one of those stories that wouldn't have happened without the partnership. Dr. Pepper could not have done this alone. TikTok gave us a forum. It gave Romeo a forum to tell our story. We thought it made a lot of sense to show the power of a brand plus a platform, plus a creator and how it can help us grow.
- [07:11]
C
So if we go behind the scenes, like how this actually went down, I'm working at Dr. Pepper this, TikTok breaks the Internet. What are all of the mechanisms that tend to happen because workflow is so complicated that you could have missed the moment altogether. So how'd it go down?
- [07:28]
B
So this one's kind of funny. So usually we rely on a buttoned up social listening process to identify trends before they bubble up. We have a great team that's aided by all sorts of AI fueled tools to get ahead of trends. But honestly, with Romeo, we didn't need it. Romeo is an overnight sensation like we just couldn't miss. I think what's really unique about Dr. Pepper is our social team is truly part of the community. They are raving fans of the brand. They were among the first to celebrate Romeo. They went into Romeo's comments probably the day, day after Romeo released the jingle.
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C
But.
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B
But they didn't need social listening to find Romeo. It surfaced and it bubbled quickly and our team was able to identify it. I remember, in fact, it was. It was around the week of Christmas and I was on vacation in Mexico and I woke up, I Don't know. Pretty early. I was behind time zones from the rest of my team and I got a note from my team about how great this jingle was, how it was an earworm they couldn't get out of their mind and how they think this is something that's going to be really important for the brand and how it was something that as fans of Dr. Pepper and as fans of the community, they loved. And so I couldn't get out of my mind the rest of the vacation. But we all agreed that, like, hey, let's celebrate Romeo. Let's go into their comments. Let's try to amplify this jingle, but let's track the consumer response during the holidays to see if the rest of our community was excited as we were, and they clearly were. By the time we came back from the holidays, Romeo was truly a phenomenon. Our community could stop singing her, you know, jingle. Our community members are creating their own spots with the jingle and they were just celebrating Romeo like, every hour across TikTok and across some other channels. And at that point, our social team felt validated. They felt heard, they felt seen. They felt like they were part of the community.
- [09:09]
C
Right.
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B
Because they are. And so then we realized, like, this is pretty big. We need to do something that's meaningful. And so that's where some of the complexity came in. It's hard to identify and hard to align on the plan to really make sure that we were doing Romeo justice. And we knew it was a big moment for our brand. We knew it made a lot of sense. We knew that Romeo was a huge advocate for our brand. We wanted to make sure that we, we gave Romeo their time. And so that's where we tried to move as quickly as we could. We didn't go through the standard briefing process that you typically would because we realized we can't move as fast as culture if we try to go through, like, an old school process. So we got all of our key stakeholders on a call and we came up with a lot of different ideas and about how to execute and how to really amplify this moment. And ultimately we landed on the idea that we want to do something as big as we possibly can. This jingle had essentially became something that had never really been seen in cpg. And so we wanted to make sure that we were doing it justice and the standard playbook for recognizing a creator or recognizing a moment like this. We didn't feel like it was big enough for Romeo. And so we decided that we were going to land on our biggest day of the year for Dr. Pepper, the college football national championship. And we were going to create an entirely new commercial spot with Romeo's jingle as the centerpiece. What was really difficult and challenging about that was, again, it was the first week back from the holidays when we aligned that we wanted to do something really big. The national championship isn't until the third Monday of January, MLK day. And so there was a window between when we decided we want to do something really big and when we actually did it and when our fans could see it. And in that time, we were getting some criticism from our fans saying we weren't moving fast enough or that, are you guys not going to do anything about this? Romeo gave you tons and tons of attention. Are you going to ignore them? And that is not at all what we were doing. But we held firm. We realized that, hey, the payoff will be worth it. There's no bigger day for Dr. Pepper than the college football national championship. We kind of, you know, sat back, took some strays, which were well warranted at the time because people didn't know what we had cooking. And then we decided to, you know, use some of our airtime during the college football national championship and show this commercial two different times. And at that point, the Internet just shut down. We truly broke the Internet. The responses from our community were amazing. Like, some of them were really touching. And I remember there was one or two TikTok reels of people literally crying because they felt so touched that Romeo had been seen. Romeo had been given this moment in the sun, and that we really recognized who our fans were and we wanted to celebrate them. But from a process perspective, it really was coming up with the idea and holding firm and being really quick with what we wanted to do. So we had the time to create the commercials to run during the national championship, and then also kind of being comfortable with the fact that we were going to be hated for a few days. But it was the right thing for the brand because we wanted to make sure that we could create that tension and then celebrate Romeo in the biggest way possible.
- [12:16]
A
Brand week is back September 15th through the 17th in downtown Atlanta. And if you're serious about where marketing is going, this is the room for you. I'm Jenny Rooney, chief brand and community officer at Adweek. And for three days, we're bringing together the sharpest minds in marketing for the ideas, insights, and connections share, shaping what comes next for brands. From culture and creativity to growth, leadership, and consumer behavior. Brand week is where brand leaders come to think bigger, connect deeper, and leave With a clearer plan for what's ahead. Get your tickets now@brandweek.com and use code BW26 for 20% off. That's brandweek.com code BW26.
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D
Quick question.
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A
When was the last time a display
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D
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- [13:03]
A
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- [13:05]
D
Different feeling, right? That's how podcast advertising works. A host who's built real trust with their audience talks about your brand in their own words, in their own voice.
- [13:15]
A
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- [13:18]
D
With acast, you can access the world's largest podcast marketplace. Choose the right shows, the right audiences, the right format, then watch the data
- [13:26]
A
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- [13:28]
D
You're not buying impressions, you're buying influence. Learn more by visiting acast.com advertise
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C
can only imagine, like, how those days were in between when you were getting all the crap and you're like, no, don't worry, it's all going to pay off in the end. Like, how many of those phone calls or texts or slacks were you getting in that period of time?
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B
We were getting a lot.
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C
Like, I'm doing internal. Just internal. Forget about, like, the consumer sentiment.
- [13:57]
B
Yeah. I mean, we had a lot internally because you don't want to be hated for something that you shouldn't be hated for. Right. Because you know you're doing the right thing.
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C
Don't I know it, man.
- [14:06]
B
Exactly. But sometimes if you wait a little bit, stick to what you believe in, you have conviction on, it's going to end up working out in the end. And it did. So our fans definitely felt heard after the fact. Like, once it ran on the championship and then all the press that Romeo got in the aftermath of it, you know, Romeo was on pretty much every morning show. You couldn't miss Romeo in the. In the weeks after. And so while there was some frustration, you have to have a little bit of thick skin to deal with it, knowing that ultimately you're doing the right thing for your fans, your partner in Romeo, and for the brand as well. There were definitely moments internally where we were thinking, like, man, should we tell people what we're doing just to kind of get rid of some of the. The comments we're seeing online. And then ultimately we decided, like, hey, we can take a couple weeks of. Of criticism knowing that it's going to pay off because we're not going to ruin the moment. Like, the moment's going to be really authentic. The moment's going to be touching because it's going to be unexpected. And so we didn't want to do a big press release. We didn't want to, like, tell people what we were doing beforehand. We wanted it to be authentic. We wanted it to feel really special. And so it was a tough couple of weeks, but I'm glad we didn't second guess ourselves.
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D
You mentioned stakeholders. At what senior level did this have to get approved? Like, did your CEO have to weigh in? Do they have to bring it to the board of directors, or does the puck stop with you?
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B
Great question. We worked very closely with our CEO and my boss, our cmo, to make sure that we are all aligned with this. Changing our spots during the college football national championship is not a small task. Again, that is the biggest day of the year for Dr. Pepper. Right? We are synonymous with college football. We celebrate fans of college football that is at the center of our brand. And so making that pivot from spots that we had planned to run for half a year to doing a 180 for a creator who obviously the TikTok community and the social community knew, but there may not be a perfect overlap with college football fans. It's a big decision. So we wanted to make sure that our CEO, our CMO and my team, as well as the brand managers were all holding hands, and we all lined that this was the right thing to do. So we had a lot of conversations. But again, ultimately, it all goes back to the fact that Dr. Pepper, like everybody who works on Dr. Pepper, from the brand managers to the social team and everybody in between, they are part of the one of a kind community. They are Dr. Pepper fans. The fact that we can say with conviction, with certainty that this means a lot to the community, because we are the community, gave us a lot of gravitas when we're taking it to our executive team that this is the right thing to do. And they had our back. I mean, they're Dr. Pepper fans as well, and they're part of the community. And so they understood where we were coming from, and they were fully supportive of it. And, you know, now we want to figure out, like, can we replicate that? Because it was such a powerful moment for our brand in our four walls, everybody felt so much pride that we were able to capture this moment, celebrate one of our fans, and really tell our story.
- [17:07]
D
And Mike, from a TikTok perspective, like, when I think about this, the only other brand that comes to mind is Elf Cosmetics in terms of how they, like, took a TikTok jingle and then brought it into their national advertising with Everything that you see at TikTok and your colleagues see at TikTok, was this a once in a lifetime opportunity? Is Ben going to be able to do this again? Like, what's sort of your hot take?
- [17:32]
E
Well, you can't replicate Romeo, but I think you can take advantage of the model that now is established at Keurig, Dr. Pepper and a few other brands have adopted as well. Is really leaning in and recognizing that culture starts on TikTok. And if you don't participate, then what does the brand stand for to that community? So we've seen some example. Probably the first example when I first started here in 2020 was like dreams and Ocean Spray. I don't know if you guys remember that very spontaneous moment, but the key to it, probably what is the, you know, the common thread with Romeo's jingle is it invites participation and participation is the strongest signal of demand. Brands that are willing to throw out their own brief, disrupt their own production cycle and really say, you know, this is what our community and fans expect of us in this moment. If we don't respond, they're going to be disappointed. It kind of came like full cycle. So there's this moment late December, and then the TikTok informed the brief that became the major commercial campaign around the College Football Playoff championship, which then gave it new life on TikTok again for more participation and versions and community participation around this super cool, simple, repeatable, inversionable jingle.
- [18:41]
D
Yeah, absolutely.
- [18:42]
B
When I came here, I've only been here 14 months when I was talking about coming to KDP, one of the things my boss, our CMO and I talked about was how do we change the culture a little bit? To move faster, right? To move at the speed of culture. I come from a different background than your traditional media leads at a cpg. I spent the first half of my career in journalism. I was editor in chief of some platforms at ESPN and worked in tech afterward. So I was used to moving really, really fast, probably too fast at times. But Drew, when, when we were talking about coming here, he said, like, I want you to build a team that is set up to move as fast as culture. I want you to move and build things really, really fast and then iterate and optimize and learn. And we need to move away from the traditional, you know, like, we're going to brief something, we're going to take a quarter to align on what we're going to do and then we're going to move. And that's really what sold me on coming here was being able to bring that fast moving sort of process and operating model to a CPG brand the way that Mike referenced, so that we can react. Right. You can't plan a Romeo. You never know when that's going to happen. And hopefully we find another Romeo. We may not, but you're always going to have like a micro moment around your brand and you need to be able to react quickly and come up with a smart plan to capitalize on it or else the moment it's going to leave you and it's going to move past you. And if you don't have the internal tools and internal processes to make fast decisions, you're never going to be able to participate in culture.
- [20:10]
D
So now that we're six months from the college football moment.
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E
Yep.
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D
The big question is, did it move the needle in sales?
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B
It did. We did a lot of analysis. So I come from a closed loop background, so I worked in ad tech for a long time, worked on closed loop CPG measurements, you know, taking impressions you serve across the Internet, whether it's social platforms or the open Internet, and then time them to in store sales. One of the things that I've had to get a lot more comfortable with with working across social is that you don't get the impression data. Right. Like we don't know necessarily who saw the romeo jingle on TikTok because it's not user level. We can't get that impression data. And so we've had to come up with new ways to measure. And so what we did here was the week of the college football national championship in 2026, we compared to 2025 knowing that most things were the same. We had a big paid media buy on the linear game as well as all the social components surrounding it. We knew that we had distribution gains during that season in store. So we knew all the different things that were stable across the years. We also knew what was different. And one of the key things that was different was Romeo. There was no Romeo equivalent during the 2025 College Football national championship. And so we were able to gauge the growth week over week of pre national championship week to national championship week and the out weeks as well, and see what our growth should have been versus what it was. And so what we found was in the week of college football national championship in 2026, we grew 23% year over year in dollar sales compared to 2025. Now, some of that has to be attributed to incremental distribution that we got in retail. So after we stripped that out, we still came to the conclusion that we drove about 13% incremental sales that week and in the out weeks because of the Romeo boost that we got. So that was about 19 million extra servings of Dr. Pepper sold in one week that we could attribute to that campaign. So it was, it was meaningful for our brand. The lifetime value or the long term value as well as the, the new raving fans that we were able to bring into our brand because they recognized that we are part of the community was something that we're still measuring and we're still tracking. Right? We're trying to see like other people who we brought into the brand, who is staying and who becomes another sort of like amplifier of our brand. Because we very much rely on word of mouth, we employ what we call raving fans model where we want to make sure that we're amplifying and we're celebrating our fans like Romeo because they become our biggest advocates. So the more people we bring into our brand, the more we can turn them into raving fans who we then can count on to drive bigger word of mouth. So short term, we saw tremendous incrementality as a result of Romeo. But really what's going to be really exciting for our brand is the long term value that we're going to get from this partnership.
- [23:03]
E
We're building tools also to help make that discovery period much, much shorter. We've got something called Content Engine that's basically going to flag to Ben and team and other brands. There are emerging viral, highly engageable videos that are happening in the moment on TikTok. And here are ways that we'd recommend connecting with those creators and users to be able to take advantage of the moment and as Ben said, give them their spot in the sun as well. So that is one way that we can help brands and partners not just think about like one shining moment, but how do you sustain this true community engagement and impact? Because the comments section is becoming the new focus group.
- [23:42]
C
I mean that's been the case for quite some time. It's how do you deal with that signal of noise? And I love Ben, what you said earlier about being a former journalist, probably also because that's how I started my career. And so looking at the arc of both of your careers, you both have platform and CPG experience in your professional backgrounds, but you've been almost like creating that special sauce of trying to figure out how to be at that intersection of all the goodness that you bring without any of the yucky legacy. So how do you think that type of empathy and chemistry impact the way the two of you work together if
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E
you're willing to go fast and nothing is truly sacred. And that the consistent firm belief that the perfect brief is not written in an ivory tower, it makes the platform come to life for you. Because the creative community is the lifeblood of TikTok and can be tremendous growth partners and informants, even in not just campaigns and marketing, but also innovation roadmap as well.
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B
Yeah, having experience that Mike and I have, that's pretty similar inverse of one another. But we kind of know what both of us are focused on. We know what each of our incentives are in ways that maybe other vendor client relationships don't have. It's funny, when I was at the trade desk where I spent a big portion of my career, I would actually try to hire former brand managers or ad leads at cpgs because I thought it was really important for people who are building products for advertisers to have actually been on the brand side, kind of like Mike has been. Because I think sometimes on the platform side you have a tendency to. And I'm not saying you do a TikTok mike, but I think at times there is a sort of ivory tower mentality where you're sort of building products that aren't necessarily meeting the needs of advertisers, vice versa. Now that I'm on the brand side, I can have more empathy for why products were built and I can do a better job, I think maybe of others of translating sort of the intent of products to members of my team or find ways to hack the system, to use how products have historically been built to our advantage. Right. Or to kind of like tweak them a little bit. Like a good example of that is almost every tech platform builds a conversion API, which works really well for direct response marketers. It doesn't always work great for CPGs because you can end up in a situation where you're just reaching people who are going to buy your brand anyway and it's just a dog chasing its tail. But we've been able to at Dr. Pepper kind of understanding how the tech works, having empathy for why was built, who was built for. We've been able to kind of build some somewhat proprietary ways that we use cappies, bringing new different types of data into the APIs that then fuel our optimizations toward KPIs that we care most about, like incrementality or new households. We're really focused on bringing new households, new buyers into our brands. So we don't want an optimization engine that is just built for Continuing to reach buyers who are going to buy our brand anyway. So understanding why things were built and how they were built and then being able to kind of tweak them to our needs has been really beneficial to the team. And then again, Mike and I, coming from similar backgrounds allows. I think it just allows us to speak a common language.
- [26:57]
D
Ben, it sounds like you have a new software product on your hands to go sell to other brands.
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B
I don't know about that. It's very much hacked.
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D
I'm like, I'm ready to go sell that for you. We have to ask both of you our famous last question. And so the question is, what's the bravest thing you've ever done? Ben, I'll start with you.
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B
So, like I said, I was a journalist earlier in my career. I was a sports journalist. And so I graduated college in the early 2000s when Boston was sort of the center of all things sports journalism. And so I don't come from a family that takes a lot of risks. I think you could refer to my mother as being very risk adverse. I essentially, like, stumped my family when I decided to move to Boston after undergrad with no job and even less money, with the prospect of becoming a sports journalist where there wasn't going to be exactly much money waiting for me at the end of the day anyway. But I think that was the bravest thing, was I moved from Colorado to Boston with no job, less money, realizing that that was sort of the epicenter of the industry at that time. And if I wanted to be successful in sports media, I had to be there. I know, obviously, 20 plus years later, I'm no longer in sports media. I'm on the brand side. I still think it worked out really well, but that was scary at the time and it was not necessarily encouraged by, you know, with how I was raised. Love it.
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E
And Mike, you guys may call this one too easy of a layup, but back in 2020, TikTok was still untested. Two little kids at home. The world shut down for Covid, starting a new job, then at home with a.
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C
What?
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E
They were 7 and 4 at the time, and we didn't have a fully established platform of ad products at that time. So joining TikTok was a leap for me. I had always been brand side before, but the learning and the working with incredibly brilliant people, incredibly exciting brands and creatives over the last six years, adding things like TikTok shop to our arsenal and figuring out the future of commerce has been the most enlightening period of my career. So, you know, I say at the time it felt scary. Looking back now, it makes perfect sense. But yeah, given all the other circumstances around Covid in 2020, April 6, it was, it was a bit of a leap and certainly enjoyed every minute of it, though.
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D
Well, what ties both of you together in those stories is your intuition. So keep listening to it. We're so appreciative for you sharing the story behind Dr. Pepper and TikTok. Six more months, Ben, to see if you can comp what you did. So we'll be watching.
- [29:25]
B
A lot of pressure to do so, so we're trying to figure it out.
- [29:29]
D
Well, we can get you back into the show and find out how you landed, but what an awesome story and partnership. Thanks for joining us.
- [29:36]
A
Thank you.
- [29:37]
B
Thank you, guys. That was fun.
- [29:40]
D
If you like what you heard and you want to hear an episode from the CEO of Keurig, Dr. Pepper, but he was not the CEO when we interviewed him on the show. He was the CEO of Central Pet and Garden. Go check out an episode we did way back when with Tim Kofer. If you like what you heard, write a review. Thanks for listening. Foreign.
- [30:27]
A
Week is back September 15th through the 17th in downtown Atlanta. And if you're serious about where marketing is going, this is the room for you. I'm Jenny Rooney, Chief brand and Community Officer at Adweek, and for three days, we're bringing together the sharpest minds in marketing for the ideas, insights and connections shaping what comes next for brands. From culture and creativity to growth, leadership, and consumer behavior, Brand Week is where brand leaders come to think bigger, connect deeper, and leave with a clearer plan for what's ahead. Get your tickets now@brandweek.com and use code BW26 for 20% off. That's brandweek.com code BW26.
- [31:10]
C
Hi, I'm Jackie Cooper, Global Chief Brand Officer at Edelman and the host of Touch of Truth, a new podcast launching on the Adweek Podcast Network. My dad gave me this incredibly smart piece of advice. Meet everyone once. As a result, I've met some of the most fascinating and inspiring people on the planet. Now on Touch of Truth, we're coming centre stage and sharing the mic to experience stories of truth, insights and visions for the future that will challenge your way of thinking. Touch of Truth is available wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Tuesday. I do hope to see you there.