Are You Ready for Your First "Aging Spike”? Plus! “Secret Menus” at Derm Offices and The Skincare Ingredients That Will be Everywhere in 2025 with Derm Approved Podcast Host Dr. Sheila Farhang

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast: Detailed Summary of Episode Released on November 13, 2024

Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Guest: Dr. Sheila Farang, Board-Certified Dermatologist
Episode Title: Are You Ready for Your First "Aging Spike”? Plus! “Secret Menus” at Derm Offices and The Skincare Ingredients That Will be Everywhere in 2025

---

1. Introduction to the Episode

[00:59] Jill Dunn: Jill and Carlene welcome listeners back to the Breaking Beauty Podcast, emphasizing their roles as seasoned beauty editors dedicated to uncovering breakthrough people, products, and moments in the beauty industry.

[01:24] Carlene Higgins: Carlene references their recent holiday gift guide episode, encouraging listeners to share it for inspiration and gifting ideas.

[03:13] Carlene Higgins: The hosts introduce today’s special guest, Dr. Sheila Farang, a double board-certified dermatologist and cosmetic surgeon, known for her appearances on national media platforms like Good Morning America and the Today Show. They highlight her new show, Derma Proved, and set the stage for the episode's focus on aging, dermatological insights, and skincare trends.

2. Understanding Aging Spikes: Insights from Stanford Study

[03:48] Carlene Higgins: The hosts delve into a significant study from Stanford Medicine, which suggests that aging occurs in two major spikes at ages 44 and 60, rather than progressing linearly.

[12:02] Dr. Sheila Farang: Dr. Farang explains that while the study wasn't revolutionary, it confirmed existing observations that aging accelerates due to factors like stress, pregnancy, and significant life events. She details the study's methodology, involving a cohort of 108 individuals over nearly seven years, assessing changes through blood, skin, and saliva swabs.

[14:36] Carlene Higgins: The conversation highlights personal experiences with aging, noting that visible changes often become more apparent around mid-40s rather than immediately after turning 40.

[16:42] Dr. Farang: Emphasizing the science behind the aging spikes, Dr. Farang discusses the decrease in muscle mass, collagen, elastin, and glycans that contribute to signs of aging. She underscores the importance of early intervention through strength training and skincare focused on collagen stimulation.

3. Preparing for Aging Spikes: Lifestyle and Skincare Recommendations

[17:53] Dr. Farang: Dr. Farang advises on mitigating the effects of aging spikes through lifestyle modifications and skincare:

• Stress Reduction: Managing stress is crucial as cortisol breaks down collagen. She mentions using adaptogens and seeking medical support to manage stress effectively.

  [18:44] Carlene Higgins: Notes the interrelation between mental health and skin health.

• Skincare Essentials: Emphasizes the importance of SPF, retinoids, and peptides. She recommends retinoids as the gold standard for stimulating collagen and advises against relying solely on hydrating agents like hyaluronic acid for anti-aging benefits.

  [21:15] Dr. Farang: "If you want to do something that's actually stimulating collagen and boosting that cell turnover, and that's a retinoid."

4. Choosing the Right Injector: Green Flags and Red Flags

[08:04] Jill Dunn: Jill introduces questions about finding top injectors, referencing Dr. Farang’s recognition as one of the top 100 injectors in the USA.

[09:02] Dr. Farang: Discusses various vetting systems for injectors, such as Castle Connolly, Super Doctors, and aesthetic concierge services. She emphasizes assessing credentials, years of experience, and reviewing before-and-after photos rather than trusting social media profiles.

[09:35] Dr. Farang: Highlights the importance of a provider's approach, protocol adherence, and the ability to handle complications like intravascular occlusions.

[24:11] Discussion on Filler Fatigue: The hosts and Dr. Farang discuss the backlash against fillers, particularly when used excessively or unprofessionally, leading to unnatural appearances and adverse effects like jowling.

5. The Concept of 'Secret Menus' in Dermatology

[35:06] Jill Dunn: Jill introduces the topic of 'secret menus' at dermatology offices, referencing an Elle article and inquiring if listeners request these enhanced or customized treatments.

[40:16] Dr. Farang: Explains that true 'secret menus' are not common among knowledgeable dermatologists. She critiques trendy practices like mixing PRP with fillers in the same syringe, stating it can disrupt ingredient integrity and lead to complications.

[41:58] Dr. Farang: Discusses advanced injectable techniques such as hyper-dilute Radiesse and Sculptra, which stimulate collagen without adding excessive volume, advocating for personalized treatments based on individual facial anatomy and needs.

6. Trends and Future Ingredients in Skincare for 2025

[45:55] Dr. Farang: Outlines three key skincare trends expected to dominate by 2025:

1. Peptides: Growing research and formulations combining peptides with retinoids for enhanced collagen stimulation.

2. Microbiome-Focused Skincare: Increasing emphasis on balancing the skin microbiome to address conditions like rosacea and acne, moving away from harsh treatments that disrupt natural flora.

3. Regenerative Aesthetics: Integration of injectable skincare treatments that combine growth factors, peptides, and minimal fillers to provide hydration and stimulate skin regeneration without adding significant volume.

   [48:09] Dr. Farang: "This is where skin care and aesthetic procedures are going to really mesh."

[49:07] Jill Dunn: Reflects on the upcoming trends, particularly the rise of polydeoxyribonucleotides (PDRN) from South Korea, noting their potential to revolutionize skincare by acting similarly to peptides.

7. Dissolving Fillers: Process and Precautions

[30:32] Jill Dunn: Addresses the topic of dissolving fillers, highlighting misconceptions and potential risks associated with treating it as casually as removing makeup.

[31:00] Dr. Farang: Details the process of dissolving hyaluronic acid-based fillers using hyaluronidase (e.g., Hyalinex). She warns against unregulated practices, such as melting fat with fillers not based on hyaluronic acid, leading to permanent issues.

[34:43] Dr. Farang: Emphasizes the importance of not refilling immediately after dissolving to allow skin healing and prevent migration of dissolved fillers.

8. Final Thoughts and Wrap-Up

[49:07] Jill Dunn: Thanks Dr. Farang for her insightful contributions and announces a podcast swap, promoting Dr. Farang’s Derma Proved show.

[49:17] Carlene Higgins: Directs listeners to find additional resources, exclusive promo codes, and episode details on their blog and social media platforms.

Key Takeaways:

• Aging Spikes: Recognizing pivotal aging phases at 44 and 60 allows for proactive skincare and lifestyle adjustments.
• Skincare Fundamentals: Prioritizing SPF, retinoids, and peptides is essential for long-term skin health.
• Professional Injectors: Choosing qualified, credentialed injectors safeguards against adverse effects and promotes natural results.
• Future Trends: Peptides, microbiome science, and regenerative aesthetics are set to reshape the skincare landscape by 2025.
• Dissolving Fillers: Understanding the proper methods and cautions when reversing filler treatments is crucial for maintaining skin integrity.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Farang on Aging Spikes:
  "[14:36] You don't have to wait until you hit those ages to start addressing aging. Prevention is key."

• On Choosing Injectors:
  "[09:35] Look at the credentials, see how long they've been doing it, and review before and afters rather than relying on Instagram."

• Future of Skincare Ingredients:
  "[45:55] Peptides, microbiome-focused skincare, and regenerative aesthetics will be at the forefront of 2025 skincare trends."

---

For more details on products mentioned in today's episode and exclusive promo codes, visit breakingbeautypodcast.com.

Transcript

[Unnamed Speaker (Life Insurance Ad)]

This new year, I want to spend more time with my family, get healthier and make sure my finances are in order. That includes finally securing life insurance. My friend recommended Select Quote They've helped more than 2 million people find coverage in the last 40 years. In 15 minutes, a licensed insurance agent found me a $500,000 policy for only $16 a month and my husband got a $500,000 policy for ONLY $18 a month. Plus we qualified for same day life insurance, no medical exam required, and we recovered by the time we hung up with Select Quote a health concern, be it high blood pressure, diabetes, even heart disease, their experienced agents can find you the right life insurance policy at the lowest price. Make life insurance the first resolution you check off your list this year.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Go to selectquote.com for your free quote. That's selectquote.com selectquote.com details on example [e-mail].

[Unnamed Speaker (Podcast Production)]

The following podcast is a Dear Media Production.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast.

[Carlene Higgins]

All about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

We're your hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to the show everyone. We're Jill and Carlene, your friendly neighborhood beauty editors sharing the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty every single week. Hey Carlene.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hey Jill. I hope everyone enjoyed our damn good holiday gift guide that we served up last week. All the products we want for ourselves. You know, you guys can feel free to share that episode with a friend for inspo or if you want to drop them a hint of something you want, throw it in the family group chat. It's all, it's good.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean people just need more than a hint. Some people need to be hit over the head like and so you don't end up with a gift that disappoints. And you know, we put that we published that episode nice and early so everyone has lots of time to shop and hope that you guys had fun doing that. But quick update on that episode. Carlene, I mentioned the E L F Cosmetics and Stanley Cup.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Oh yeah, I remember that.

[Jill Dunn]

So I actually went in person to Target to see if I could find it because I knew it was going to fly fly off the shelves. So they have five colors of the Stanley cup that are like makeup inspired by E L F cosmetics. And they have the lip oil that corresponds. So it's like Red Delicious Stanley Cup Red Red Delicious lip oil from Elf Cosmetics. But the missing link, the whole point of wanting this is that they were selling a clip that could clip onto the handle of your Stanley cup and you could put your lip oil. None of the colors had the clip. Why? What happened?

[Carlene Higgins]

And by the way, that's, that's very road inspired, very road adjacent, 100%. Okay, so what happened to the clips?

[Jill Dunn]

Well, basically each item was sold separately. So you have the cup, you have the clip, you have the lip oil. So you could buy the cup and the lip oil, but all the clips were sold out. So I think what was happening was people were just like grabbing the clips to put it on their existing Stanley cup.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Now I would like to see if any of our audience found one, found the clip and got the whole shebang together. Send me a picture and I'll just drool and be jealous.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes, I would. I want to see it. Well, of course our audience loves a damn good episode, but they also appreciate when we hear from bonafide experts as well. And today we're welcoming a dermatologist who.

[Dr. Sheila Farang]

Is a Fellow Dear Media Podfam Host.

[Carlene Higgins]

Her name is Dr. Sheila Farang.

[Jill Dunn]

We were guests over on Dr. Sheila's new show. It's called Derma Proved. And that dropped a few weeks back. You can go back in her feed and check that out. We'll link to it in our show notes. And the topic of that conversation was all about eye bags and jowls and some things you can do at home to help with those tough to treat areas.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. So in this episode we're asking Dr. Sheila about the groundbreaking research that came out of Stanford around aging spikes this year, which really made a lot of headlines. It suggests that we actually do not age in a linear fashion, but in two major spikes at age 44 and 60. So Dr. Sheila is going to decode that news, what we need to know and how to get ready for it along with more timely and topical dermatology matters.

[Jill Dunn]

And Dr. Sheila is a double board certified dermatologist. She's also a fellowship trained cosmetic surgeon and reconstructive Mohs micrographic skin cancer surgeon. And she is the founder of Avant Dermatology and Esthetics in Tucson, Arizona. And she often practices in Beverly Hills as well.

[Carlene Higgins]

You might recognize her name from national media like Good Morning America and the Today Show.

[Jill Dunn]

So just ahead, we'll get the truth about how we age according to a dermatologist. Plus we'll get her. We're like we're calling it Prejuvenation Secrets. So finding out what we can do now to sort of get ahead of these aging spikes. We also ask her about how to find out if your injector provider is a green flag versus a red flag. And is there a secret menu at the dermatologist office that we should know about?

[Carlene Higgins]

All of that plus the skincare ingredient that will be everywhere in 2025. Welcome Dr. Sheila.

[Unnamed Speaker (Podcast Production)]

Hi, I'm Dr. Will Cole. As a leading functional medicine practitioner, I have had the unique position to see so many alchemize their pain and health problems to their purpose. Now I want the same for you. This podcast is the manifesto for a new breed of health seekers where there is a fresh infusion of grace and lightness into wellness. This is the art of being well. Join me every Thursday for a new episode.

[Dr. Sheila Farang]

This episode is brought to you in part by way so I don't know how many of you listened to our Holiday Gift Guide episode that dropped last week. We let you know about so many of our favorites that you can pick up in store or online. And I want to give you a hot tip on another great way of shopping. It's at the Ways website. They're doing a build your own bundle deal and how it works is that you buy three products and you get a mini product for free plus you save 15%. So you start with, let's say one of their best sellers. You all know how much Jill and I both love the Detox shampoo. I use it once a week to just clarify, get rid of any oil and dirt buildup on my scalp or like dry shampoo left on my strands and I just find it's a total reset. Also love their leave in conditioner. So pick your favorite. Step 2 Choose a scent. So everybody knows their iconic St. Bart scent, Melrose Place. You can choose a body cleanser, a body cream, one of their fragrances. And then step three Choose a travel size. So any of your favorites come in minis that you can take with you on holiday or if you're traveling for work, like the Detox shampoo that I mentioned or the leave in conditioner. And then step four, you get to choose a mini for free. So any of your favorites or what I would do is I would pick their Holloway gift bag. It says jingle all the way spelled ou AI. So you can wrap up all of these favorites that you've picked and add a little tissue, gift it for someone else and you are ready to rock. And the best part is we also have our promo code that we always have for you. It's going to be 15% off sitewide. Get on your way to save for the holiday. Go to t h e o uai.com for 15 off site wide and enter promo code beauty15. That's T-O-U-A I.com for 15. Off with code beauty15. Candles and everything. That's the perfect gift. Just saying. And now back to the show.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to breaking beauty podcast. Dr. Sheila, I need to ask you about this because you were recently named one of the top 100 injectors in the USA. So I need to know how this comes about. Is there like a competition of sorts and can I be a guinea pig?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

You know, with that one specifically, it was, I think, a nomination based. And. And this is a really good question because it's like, how do you find your provider? Right. Are they on like a top hundred injector list? You know, this one I know was. I was nominated by a. One of the injectable companies.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Because I'm their celebrity west coast injector.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And there are so many different vetting systems. I wouldn't. That one's like a nomination one. There's one that's. That I got nominated for recently, and this one's by Piers and it has a board and it's called the Castle Connolly or something like that.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And then there's like super docs, and then now there's like, actually companies that are vetting, they're like brokers. Oh, derms. Have you guys heard that?

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. Like Persona.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And like aesthetic. They're. They're kind of like aesthetic concierges.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

So I guess you just have to see, is this like membership. Membership based? You have to be like pay to be part of this. And it can get really confusing. Right. I mean, I always get super honored to get nominated for this stuff, but I think when it comes down to patience, kind of beyond that, it's like, look at the credentials. Right. See how long they've been doing it. Look at the before and afters. But not so much like on Instagram or anything like that, because you guys.

[Carlene Higgins]

Know that it can be edited.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Exactly. And see if you vibe, you know, if you get into the place, always do a consultation first. And if things look a little off. Red flag. Yeah, maybe it is. If everything's very streamlined, everything's very like by the book and so organized. And it's easy to schedule, it's easy to get in touch with someone if you have something afterwards, if you're bruising or something. And you know, at my office we have like a huge protocol to make sure it's not an intravascular occlusion, like filler's not in a big Vessel. Those are the things people should really look for.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, okay. What's the name of the pure one? I'm interested in that.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Castle, Connolly, Top doctors.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And I think there's a really rigorous process that goes into place because I know I looked at it when I was just a few years out of practice and I was still too. I didn't, like, meet the criteria. So I didn't really look into it anymore. And then I just received an email of top doctor. So I think that's really nice if someone wants to do that. I think being fellowship trained, especially in dermatology, of course, dermatology, we get knowledge of cosmetics and we get knowledge of everything. So if you want to talk about skincare a lot, don't go to a medical dermatologist who's only really working on complex, like, bullis blistering diseases all the time. They are.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Their mind is.

[Jill Dunn]

Different focus.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

A different focus. Exactly. Although all derms have that knowledge base of skin care. They're not going to sit down and talk to you about peptides and things on TikTok and things like that. I kind of do a little bit of all of. I do all of it because I own the practice. But I think that that's another thing to look out for if you want, like, the best of the best of the cosmetically trained. It's like ASDS fellowship, trained in cosmetics. And there's like a fellowship after dermatology residency that we can pursue. And I did a double one.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. Well, we keep learning and we keep growing.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Now, we wanted to talk to you today about how we age because there was a study out of Stanford Medicine that was released this summer. It made a lot, a lot of headlines. And it suggests that there are two kind of bursts in our aging, and one of them happens at age 44 and the other one at 60. I'm curious if you see this theory reflected in your practice and what the takeaway of that news was for you. Did it resonate?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah. I'm so glad you are bringing this up because it was huge and it wasn't revolutionary. We kind of all know we don't age linearly, especially after pregnancy, after a stressful time in your life, after, you know, after my, you know, med school or, you know, we kind of have this accelerated aging process based on, like, stress in our life, too. But this one was really specific. Of course, they couldn't control for stress in our lives or anything like that. And they. And this is a really great study. So I know A lot of publications come out there and a lot. My husband's an astrophysicist and PhD. So every time, like we see studies, we're like, not a good study, not vetted, or this is like industry acts or something like that. This was nature, which is the best. And it's actually open access, so if anyone wants to read it, they can. It gets really into the weeds. It's a really long paper and it really gets into the science of it. Almost like way beyond like what I understand with Cole's notes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Cole's notes, please.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yes, exactly, exactly. But essentially this is a really great study because it was a cohort of like 108 people, which technically isn't that many. But for such a study that follows them for, I think it was like 6.8 years, almost 7 years. They took blood swab, skin swab, saliva swab, all of these things, and they saw these changes over time. And the two peaks were 44 and 60. And it's funny because I do see that in my office, even like without that study, because it's that, it's that perimenopause.

[Carlene Higgins]

I said that too. I said that even from personal experience. I think a lot of people out there think that when they turn 40, their face is going to start changing because they're in their 40s now. But I noticed it when I hit mid 40 and I was like, no, you're facing. When you're. For me, everyone's different, obviously. But when I was 40, I was like, I look the same, if not maybe a bit better because of, you know, the in depth skin care we do in the treatments. Like, I didn't notice a big difference at 40, but around 45, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, I see it now. It's all falling.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And I think one takeaway and I'll kind of talk about the study a little bit more. But I think one really good takeaway from this is that it's not in your head. It's. You don't. It's not like you all of a sudden felt like you were aging because there's science there to back it up. Because I do have patients coming in and they're like, oh my God. Like, and then they feel like this is just gonna be an accelerated aging process.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

I think a lot of things are going to come from it. Because what happened was so for, you know, of course they looked at cardiovascular, they looked at how you metabolize carbohydrates and fatty acids. So that weight gain, that, that we get as we mature, postmenopausal or what have you, is because of that decrease in muscle mass. It's because of how we metabolize things. So I think this is going to be really interesting, hopefully, to shift, like, the lifestyle aspect of everything going in, getting screened, if you have cardiovascular disease in your family, things like that. So I think as a whole, that was really important as a whole aging factor, but there was also the skin and the muscle. So they saw that for muscle decreases, like, actually our muscle mass decreases as early as like, 30 years old and then 60 when it really goes down. So again, like, going in, doing that, like weight training and things like that, super important, especially for bones and osteoporosis and then for skin, which is, I think what we're really kind of interested in here for this conversation. They saw a dramatic decrease in what we call the extracellular matrix, which is our collagen, our elastin and glyco, like our gags, glycans. So this is what gives structure to our skin. You know, we talk about stimulation of collagen. You guys know all about that. And I think it's really interesting because as far as skin care is concerned, as far as in office treatments are concerned, as far as at home devices are concerned, like red light, things like that, we do really need to focus on that stimulation of collagen because we lose. Well, this wasn't in the study, but from what we know, we lose 1% of collagen production each year starting the age of 20, and then 30% of our collagen, like, within five years of, like, menopause. So I think that now that we know this aspect, 44 and 60, we kind of. I kind of already knew that. In my office. I see a lot of, you know, people come in their 30s. Sometimes I hear, like, late 30. Like, for me, I feel like I kind of age like 35 plus when I'm, like, near 40s. So I feel like I'm kind of hitting that. But everyone's so different.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

So I don't want you to bang on those two numbers, like, all right, I'm not going to do anything until I age of 44.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, right. Yeah. The prevention and I think, yeah, like, doing things like strength training, it's never a bad idea. And one thing that was interesting that I took away, because I was expecting perimenopause. I was expecting them to say women kind of fared worse because of perimenop, but it wasn't the case. Trust me, I was ready to be like patriarchy strikes again. But it wasn't. It was men and women equally at those ages in fact. So it's like good to keep in.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Mind I think for men. Yeah. It would be interesting to kind of do a side. I know there was like limitations in the study. It was like people around Stanford University. So it was like one very specific area. Sure. And then another thing was decrease in testosterone in men, muscle loss, things like that. So it'll be interesting to see. I think that was just like the surface. Yeah. Right.

[Jill Dunn]

We could talk for a whole hour just about that study.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So what can we do beforehand to try to. Now that we have this understanding of what's going to happen, how can we use that knowledge to prepare and mitigate, you know, the effects of that the best that we can? What's your advice?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah, I think that that's a great question. And first like lifestyle obviously we all know that stress accelerate, you know that, that cortisol and that increases like the breakdown of collagen. So decreasing stress. I know, easier said than done. In my lifestyle I'm on like adaptogens and things because I know I can't decrease like my career aspect. Right. And I have a doctor who does all of that and helps me with it. Even though I feel like I've been doing my own health care forever. I feel like I needed someone else to run some of those labs, check my cort, all do all of that. So you want to make sure your insights are good. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then we're Lexapro guys. Adaptogens are Lex.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

We're both equally fans over here. Saves me, I'll tell you that much.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yes. I'm so glad you bring that up because that it, the mind, it's all interrelated, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Exactly. It doesn't matter if you have a ten step skincare routine if you're a.

[Carlene Higgins]

My skin is glowing.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think that is so, so important. So what are some things at home and at the in office that we can do? So as we know we're decreasing that collagen. Collagen is what gives our skin structure elasticity is what gives our skin bounce. And I know you guys are huge into skincare. Surprisingly, as a derm, I'm not really into skincare. I get so much sent to me and I have really sensitive skin. I have like a lot of allergies and I'm acne prone. So I stick to like my few ingredients.

[Carlene Higgins]

Just the basics.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

The basics. A lot of derms do yeah, exactly. But I think that in the world of peptides and of course retinoids are amazing. They're kind of like the gold standard. Getting skincare down I think is really important initially. So of course spf, not even like dousing yourself all with sunscreen, but like sun protecting, wearing a hat, covering up, doing all that when you're like out and about is like super important. Adds up course skin care. And then in the world of in office treatments, we have a lot of technologies that stimulate collagen. I know there's like some fear mongering and some other things regarding things that are like heat based and radio frequency based or ultrasound based that melt fat, but it's only deliberately melts fat when you're at those settings. I think that people really need to embrace these energy. I think that lasers are a huge part of everything. Botox and filler. I know we, we may talk about this but like the fact that fillers are being vilified is I think sad because it does come into place as we've aged because as we're aging we lose fat, we lose those fat. Pads go down, we have bone resorption and muscle tone goes down. So I think it's focusing a lot on those things that stimulates collagen. There's a lot of injectables that stimulate collagen sculpture. Hyper dilute Radiesse is going to be, I've been using it for years, but it's going to be actually approved later this year for stimulating collagen which is really exciting for the neck, but it opens up the world for like so many other things. So I think it's really like problem based too because even like Caucasian skin types, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Age a little bit differently than darker skin types. And the collagen that's there or the hair quality and the hair diameter. So I think it should be very like personalized.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

What's the single best investment you're to do one thing in your 30s?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Oh, oh my gosh. Honestly, in your 30s? Well, other than sun protection, I would say being on a retinoid, you know, some people are like, oh my God. I was listening to another podcast and they're like, retinoid has such good pr. I'm like, not really. It's just the gold standard has so much science behind it. Of course you can't be on it while you're pregnant and there is some people that can't tolerate it. But, but at a very low dose. There's so many more formulations even on the like aspect of prescriptions, like there's a brand that's a prescription called Altrino and it's a lotion and it's very tolerable and has like collagen, glycerin and I think has hyaluronic acid. And this prescription I can give patients and they tolerate it really well.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And then just like starting off with like a retinol. But I think if you want to use one skincare product, it's not hyaluronic acid, let me tell you, that's not anti aging. It's gonna just plump up your fine lines and pull in water. You want to do something that's actually stimulating collagen and boosting that cell turnover. And that's a retinoid.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah, retinoid. And it's interesting you said peptides because I do think that that's risen to popularity this year even though it's not new at all. Do you have a favorite peptide formula that. Cause that's not gonna be by prescription. So give us something we can buy.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah. You know, peptides, I think think the only thing about what's going to be difficult for that is good peptides are so expensive. So I think that unless they like mass produce, you know, are able to do something like that, they're near, you know, I think good peptides are like over a hundred dollars. So then these products are luxury products.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

They end up being expensive. Yeah. There's a new one from SkinCeuticals that I really like that we've talked about.

[Jill Dunn]

PTO. Oh yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it's supposed to be. I mean, I can't believe they're saying it, but it's supposed to be kind of.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Botoxish in a bottle. And I'm like, I can't even imagine. Let's call ptox. Like obviously that's where they're going.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

But it's not Botox in a bottle, guys. But it is a very good peptide serum. I have been using it and it has a very gentle exfoliator in it which I think is actually what gives you that the glass skin.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Effect and encourages you to keep using it. But yeah, it's going to be over.

[Jill Dunn]

A hundred allies of skin. Peptide is really good.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's really good.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Which one?

[Jill Dunn]

Allies of skin.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Oh, okay, I've heard of that.

[Jill Dunn]

And it's, it's growth factors and multi peptides in one serum. It's very unique in the market. It's like still expensive.

[Carlene Higgins]

Medicaid liquid peptides is. Is quite good. And more affordable.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So there's, there's some records now I want to ask you about has. You know, we know you're one of the top hundred injectors, so.

[Dr. Sheila Farang]

Fair enough.

[Carlene Higgins]

A lot of we've talked about filler fatigue this year. Is there anything in your opinion that has changed since when you started your practice and now in terms of your approach or what's your thought on, on this backlash?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

I think that nothing really major has shifts because. Because I'm not really like trend based in a way. You just have to go in to the patient individually. And if it's like, sometimes I'll use one syringe and do the entire face.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And like little micro droplets here and there just for like shadowing and things like that. And then there's like another injector I saw who only takes patients if she's only doing like seven syringes at once. And these are younger patients. These are like patients in their 30s. I know. And so. And she, like, that's her branding. Yes. It's like $12,000.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. That's insane. So filler is a lot more expensive than Botox. I don't know if people know that.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Right, exactly. So for something like Botox, it's by units and it really depends on where you go. I would say anything other than like $10 unit is a little bit, a little bit of a red flag.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm just gonna ask you to pause for a second. So you know of somebody who will only take clients if they do seven units minimum.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, seven syringes, sorry.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Of filler, meaning that this is kind of like I don't wake, I don't get out of bed for less than $5,000 a day. Kind of mental.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And I don't like, know this person personally, but I saw that branding and the seminars they were doing online. Wow. And I was just blown away. I was like, this is bizarre.

[Carlene Higgins]

This person needs. I'm sorry, I'm like getting a reaction right now because I know. I think that this person needs to be dragged like straight down.

[Jill Dunn]

I'll go on Reddit after.

[Carlene Higgins]

I have like, I, you know, I have a 13 year old daughter and it's like, I'm not against fillers. I've had blepharoplasty. We've talked about this before. We jumped on the air like, yeah, I'm all about interventions, but that's just such a mentality that like forcing young people to overdo it because they're not willing to, to go smaller, to minimize to Give a natural look and accept less money is just kind of evil. This is not women supporting women, guys.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

They could be injecting men too, I.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Think, in your ver. And you have to think about if you're doing that many syringes, your body's having like a kind of like an inflammatory response to it.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

All of that. It's pulling in water. Things can migrate then. So I will usually, if I have a mature patient over 60 that has a lot of volume loss, fine. If we're going to go temples, cheeks, mid cheek, nasolabial jowls, that will end up being like four or five syringes. And that's like usually where I cut it off.

[Unnamed Speaker (Podcast Production)]

Wow.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah, it seems like a lot, but it's like each one is a blueberry size.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, I just mean that so much less than seven. And you're doing it on a young person. That just puts in perspective.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Exactly. I'll send you the page afterwards so you're nice.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, guys.

[Jill Dunn]

Grateful that Quince is supporting our show this week, it's sweater weather, everyone. So I need to share with you one of my favorite sweaters that I just got from Quince. It's actually one of their Mongolian cashmere sweaters. And you will not believe the price. It starts at $50. That's right, $50 for cashmere. Like, that is incredible. And so I got this heather gray color, a crew neck cash mirror. It's lightweight. It's so cozy. I cannot believe the quality. It definitely feels like something that would be, you know, double, if not three times the price. And I also got a cotton T shirt layer underneath like a little white tea. It's so comfortable. And I'm just really impressed so far. And I have my eye on a few other things on the quinn.com website. They have beautiful leather jackets. They have cotton cardigans, soft denim, and so much more. Plus a whole holiday gift shop. And Quince is able to offer these incredible quality items by partnering directly with top factories and cutting out the cost of the middleman, essentially. So that passes the savings on to us. And Quince only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices and premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every single piece. So great news. We have a special promo code. Get cozy and Quinces high quality wardrobe is essentials. Go to quint.combeauty for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's spelled Q-I N C E.combeauty to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Once again, quince.combeauty we'll link to the software in our show notes and on our website.

[Dr. Sheila Farang]

This episode is brought to you in part by Masterclass. It can be hard to find a great mentor who can help you level up. My dream mentor, Mark Cuban. So I was really excited when I heard that he has a class on Masterclass. With Masterclass you can learn from the best to become your best. Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200 of the world's best. For just $10 a month. An annual membership with Masterclass gets you unlimited access to every instructor and you can access Masterclass on your phone, computer, smart TV or even in audio mode. Make new habits with New York Times best selling author James Clear. Improve your physical and mental well being with leading gut health experts and the classes really make a difference. 88% of members feel that Masterclass has made a positive impact on their lives. You guys all know that I'm starting my own skincare line for women over 40, set to launch in 2025. So I was so excited when I saw Mark Cuban on the roster at Masterclass. I took a class and it helped me to realize that starting small is a good thing. Going out, raising lots of capital, sure you can do that, but it's a big burden to carry on your shoulders. So there's something to be said for bootstrapping as long as you're staying profitable. That's the key, no matter at what size. So don't wait another moment to start your learning journey with Masterclass. Plus, every new membership comes with a 30 day money back guarantee. And right now our listeners can get an additional 15% off any annual [e-mail] beauty. That's 15 [e-mail] beauty. We're going to link to this on our website and in our show notes. Masterclass.com Beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

One thing I wanted to touch on that I think has kind of exploded in the last five to seven years is the topic of filler being dissolved. And people kind of talk about it flippantly, almost like, oh, I'm just going to get my lips dissolved. I've heard of so many adverse reactions. I heard it hurts like hell. And people are treating it like it's like taking off makeup. And it's not, you know, and it's not. There's no way to guarantee that you're getting 100 of it out of your body either. Right? So can you talk about that?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah, great question. You know I dissolve a lot of filler in my practice. I'm kind of known to do that. I have like, probably, I think I have like 20 vials of Hyalinex, which is like hyaluronidase. Also, the. You can only dissolve the filler that is hyaluronic acid base. Thankfully, most filler is that. But for instance, like Radiesse or sculpture, they're not hyaluronic acid base. So I've heard of horror stories of someone getting their jawline snatched. And of course, on Instagram, you see that it's so nice and sharp on this end because they did the angle there. And then you look from the front and they are just out like this. Well, guess what? Yes, it will dissolve over like 18 months maybe, but not all of it because those also stimulate collagen. So it's a really sad thing. People really need to know if I'm going and getting filler is this dissolvable? Because I also see a lot of patients from like overseas that get like silicone or something like that done and. Or they don't know what they got done. And I'm dissolving and it's not going away. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So in regards to getting filler removed, I think that it's not as scary. Of course, a very small population of people can be allergic to it. And I think that I don't personally do patch testing because I use a brand that doesn't have that potential allergen. I think it's like bovine or something. But so I use one that very. Has like very little allergic reaction. It does burn for sure. I think people need to understand that what, number one, putting in the filler should be a very, like, precise thing. You're going in micro droplets, but then when you're dissolving, it's not like X amount of dissolving fluid dissolves this much of filler. Right. You're kind of going in and flushing the area. And then we also have now.

[Jill Dunn]

So you need more dissolve. Dissolve.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Dissolve. It's like.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, sorry, wrong word.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

But it's like comes in units. Weirdly. I know that's so confusing because it's not Botox units or anything. And we say Botox, but it's. We call it neuromuscular margin. Exactly. So when it comes to dissolving, we go in and I basically flood the area. Are there people that I absolutely think that need filler dissolved? Yes. And the most common areas are the under eye area where they've had patients had. Had filler there, like, three years ago. Of course, that lymphatic drainage is obstructed because that filler is holding on there. So your body's not able to get rid of, like, foreign substances as. As it's able to. So that's why people see a lot of swelling there, and it pulls in water and that skin is so thin. So that's where we get into issues of the under eye and then lip. I think that when lip filler came out, everyone was like, fill, fill, fill. And then they got this, like, perception drift where they didn't realize how big their lips were, and it started migrating. And then they realized, okay, wait, I don't like how this looks, especially from the side, because they didn't have anyone to cut them off. And I think this is really where the providers should stop patients. And I do that all the time in my office. And also, if things really swell, it can migrate. The thing with dissolving filler is it will not get back to exactly where things were before. Right. So, for instance, if I have a patient coming in and they're like, I just want that nice, crisp border. Dr. Sheila. Like you do your patients, and they have, like, you know. Yeah, don't have that right now. It's like, very thick and I guess, duck shape look. So the thing is, I'll go in, I'll dissolve. And also, I never make them feel bad about dissolving because it's really. Sometimes it's not on them. It's their provider. So I never shame them or anything. I go in, I dissolve. It usually takes one to three sessions to dissolve. It does burn. It can. It will swell, but it kind of just feels like getting the lip filler done, it's just like the product burns. So it's not a fun process, But I agree, people are kind of nonchalant about it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

It may take a few sessions, and then you also have to wait a couple months to let that skin heal. Because a lot of the issues that I see is that people will dissolve their lip, they'll go somewhere, they'll get the lip dissolved, and then they'll come back in a week and they'll refill it. Well, guess what? It's just going to migrate again. You're not going to get that really nice border because that skin integrity is compromised.

[Jill Dunn]

Good point.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, Lots going on there. And you definitely want to go back and listen to the beginning of our episode when we talked about finding a good provider. Now, one of the things that I've Noticed is using fillers to create structure and mimic the, the look of plastic surgery. I actually went to a session on this on Restylane Shape. So this is mainly for chin augmentation and it's just been approved by Health Canada earlier this year before the fda. So I imagine it will.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

That happens a lot.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, does it?

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, I, I didn't know.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

We're behind. Europe and Canada get stuff approved way earlier.

[Carlene Higgins]

So there's a hint at what might be coming to the U.S. soonish.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So this is interesting because from my understanding it's a denser version. This is now Restylane has three different versions of their product. This is the, the most dense that you can get. So what are your thoughts? Because when we talk about it sitting around, when we talk about migration, I wonder how this applies.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah, so I love Restylane products and I use them a lot. Do I think Shape is going to add something that we don't already have? And maybe they will kill me, but I think it's comparable to Allergan Volox, you know, or I think it can be comparable to something like Radiesse, which but also stimulates collagen. So I don't think it's revolutionary in that way. And the problem with that is just because it's FDA approved doesn't mean that you. Everyone's a suitable candidate. Me personally, if I have someone that's a little soft, softer, like a female patient who wants a little chin augmentation, I'm not going to go in like with something that's so hard.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And non dynamic on their chin. I'm gonna actually use Restylane. Define, you know, it's, it's a product that's like strong but still is a little bit more flexible because I think that looks a little bit more natural in the chin area. Again, that's me as an injector. Everyone's so different with how they inject and what they like to inject with. But I think that when it comes down to your injector, they should be able to have all of these different ones. And they should know for you specifically this because my patients will ask me like, what are you using? And they'll ask me during the consult. I'm like, oh, I haven't even like, I need to use like my brain. I need to like look at your face. And you know, or they'll have like alley points which are not like a thing anymore for Allergan. And, and I tell them.

[Jill Dunn]

You mean like loyalty points?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yes, loyalty points.

[Jill Dunn]

Interesting.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

They'll have loyalty points for a company and they'll only want me to use that company. And I'm like, I will. But it's not like I will tell you it's not the first thing I would pick for this area. Will you still have great results? Yes, but it's not like my favorite thing. So we get into a lot of issues with sausage lips, duck lips, because people are using fillers that are so structurally supportive but doesn't have flexibility. So you don't have those natural lips.

[Jill Dunn]

You look good in a picture.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

But don't talk, don't talk. Or the under eye or the mid cheek when you see people in the nasal nasolabial, if something thick is put in there, you can tell you need something watery. You need something more flexible.

[Carlene Higgins]

When it starts going, it's just convex. That's what I notice sometimes on the big screen with celebrities. And I'm just like, yes, yes, it still needs to. We really have to obliterate it that much.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

That is actually, you know what happens with that? That's an injector and that's a patient who thinks that filler lifts and they might. Filler doesn't technically lift. It does lift to a certain degree because we have fat pads in the aging process that fall with time and then we have bone that's resorbed. So to a certain degree, adding a little bit of filler will lift the face because it's just adding a little volume there. But a certain point, like after one syringe, it's just going to add volume and that 3D, it's not going to lift up, it's going to project out. Like you said, very like clowny alieny. And that's where people aren't looking natural because they think they're getting that lift when really maybe they need a facelift or maybe they need some energy based devices to help tighten those deeper structures. And that's where filler has been vilified because it's used improperly.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's right.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. I also love that you touched on the cocktailing of these products and ingredients because I read an article in Elle and it was like, I think the title was like, do dermatologists have a secret menu? And I was like, click, I need to know what the secret menu menu. It's like, you know, ordering the off the in and out menu, you know, secret menu. The insiders know if you know, you know. So are people asking you for the secret menu?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

You know, they're not. But the derms who Know. No.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

So when I read that article, is a really good article, I was like, oh, yeah, been there, done that. Been there, done that. Because it's like the derms who know. Or the injectors that know. No. And it's more advanced technique. I'm not saying that cocktailing is always amazing. One thing that some injectors do that I haven't jumped on the train yet, is mixing PRP and filler together. Like, literally, I think for me, like.

[Jill Dunn]

In the same syringe.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

In the same syringe. And it just.

[Carlene Higgins]

That sounds weird.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Exactly. Mayday. Because you guys know, especially with, like, when it comes down to even skincare, you can't mix things together like that. It'll disrupt the integrity of one of the ingredients. And although I'm not saying that, one day I'll do your filler. And then in that same area, maybe I'll go on PRP or PRF or something where it's like where we. You probably know it, but PRP or PRF is where we draw your blood, spin it, take your own growth factors that pull in stem cells that are regenerative and kind of stimulate collagen in a natural sense. This doesn't really add volume, and that's why people add filler in there. But to me, it's actually really funny because I was giving a lecture and one of the questions someone asked me, they're like, what's your. It was a. It was an injector. I was like, teaching people how I do under eye filler. And this is an area where a lot of people do PRP and filler. And then some lady like Rose, she raised her hand and asked me a question. She's like, what's your protocol on PRP and filler? And I'm like, I don't do that. And it was like, everyone was like, oh, my gosh.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, like shock waves.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

I think that's a little more trendy. And that's a cocktail that I think that isn't amazing, but I think that cocktails are. That are great, are hyper dilute Radiesse, which is diluting down this one type of filler called Radiesse, which is calcium hydroxyapatite that stimulates collagen. And fanning that into the neck, fanning into that lower face area. It's very similar and comparable to something like Sculptra, which is great. And I know it gets better at. But I feel like it's like coming back now and everyone's like, talking about it again because These are injectables. That sculpture comes in a powder form. You dilute it down, and it becomes a liquid. And you inject that into the face. I don't know if you guys have that. You must have that.

[Jill Dunn]

And Sculptra.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then we have Radiesse, which is a thick filler, one of the highest density fillers, and we dilute that down, but that means we get a little bit of volume and mostly that stimulation of collagen. So I think this is kind of the future is utilizing those aspects into injectables. And then, of course, there's always, like, little things that we can do with Botox, like you said, like, are there, like, big trends or do things think has your viewpoint changed on anything? And I think we're just getting smarter with, like, ooh, where can we apply Botox or Xeomin or whatever? You know, we're applying it to the nose and things are more trendy. Whereas, like, the trap talks for a while and things like that. And I will do that for patients. But not everyone needs that masseter talks. People got it. Everyone got it. People who shouldn't have gotten it, gotten it. And now people hate it. So it's like, not.

[Jill Dunn]

Why do they hate it?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Well, because adding. Decreasing that bulk. So for, like, my mature patients, and even for myself, I saw it too. But if you do too much. So masseters are like big chewing muscle on the side there, and it can get really bulky on some people that genetically have, like, TMJ type issues where it's a muscle that you're working out, you're grinding at night, and it becomes really bulky and it can cause a very, like, wide face. So people want a slim face and the aesthetic purposes. So we go in, we do Botox or neuromodulator in that area to kind of decrease the activity a little bit. Almost like we're not completely paralyzing it because you need it to eat, but we basically decrease it. But if you're decreasing that bulk that's holding the side of your face up, there's a risk of jowling in that area.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, I see.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

So a lot of people started getting it too frequently and they started to see jowls. Even myself, I kind of, like, am a guinea pig for myself. So I got my masseter, I did my own masseters, and I was like, oh, looks amazing. And then I was like, in my head, I was like, my masseters are growing again. And it was like, usually like to do it every year. This was probably like six months later. Not even like, let me just go in again. And I did it. And I noticed that structure that's holding up the side of the face, which is so important when it comes down to aging. Decreased that structure. And I got a little jowling there.

[Jill Dunn]

Between your chin and your ear. That's so interesting. I feel like dentists. Dentists hate to see you coming because they were making a lot of money telling everybody they needed it.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Exactly.

[Jill Dunn]

It became this like, thing in a very prevalent practice in a lot of dentists office. I saw it myself on menus there and I was like, I just don't know if this is where I want.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

To be getting my Botox or the.

[Jill Dunn]

Provider I want to be getting my Botox from.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Exactly. I mean, if it's someone, if you have, if you don't care about the aesthetics or whatever and you have severe tmj, you want to somehow, maybe if it's covered that way and that person really knows what they're doing. They didn't just take like a weekend course because, I mean, of course they know how to inject and things. But the anatomy. The problem with the masseter tox is there's a muscle called resource right in front of it. So a lot of the issues I've seen are people accidentally inject that muscle so you can't even smile. So there's just like. So you do so many. You like, put way too many units in there so you can't even smile or chew. It becomes an issue when things that are like, benign and great.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Go out of hand and then it becomes like, not great, you know?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. I just think it's that thing there. Like everything you do has an opposite. Like, what is that?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Trade off.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, like trade off, chain reaction. It's like if I get my coin slot on my forehead injected. Yeah. I do get a little more wrinkling up.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Or you see it telltale on the housewives. They get the bunny wrinkles on the side of their nose. It's like, like you can see it a mile away. So your face is still going to try to move.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Exactly.

[Jill Dunn]

And you may get a wrinkle or a pocket of, you know, unwanted kind of jowling elsewhere.

[Carlene Higgins]

Our final question is what are three skincare trends, topics and ingredients that you think will be front and center in 2025?

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Okay. Well, I think peptides, we kind of touched on this, but I think a lot of companies are working on the research behind it. And because Retinols are not tolerated by all. I'm not saying peptides are going to completely replace retinoids, but I think that if the technology gets to the point where it's like the head to head studies show similar things, then I definitely see products that are like combining the two. And I already do see that. But I think that peptides are going to really, really stand out with the technology and people are going to learn more about them. I think that skin care, like microbiome in skincare, it's been touched on a little bit, but I think that that's going to be something that is going to be even more so touched on because everyone's skin is so different and with the increase in like perioral dermatitis and rosacea and acne, we need to really balance our skin skin. And then everyone's just using like hypochlorous acid all the time. Like I'm like, that's gonna disrupt our skin microbiome.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right, right.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

And then the other thing is going to be just like regenerative aesthetics. Right. Where for instance we have like injectable skincare in a sort. One being kind of that cocktail where it's called, it's called Aqua Gold is one of the brand names. So it's basically like little gold mini mini micro needles that you don't need to be really numbed for it. They don't go very deep. And basically it's called mesoderm where it only goes on the top layer of the skin a little bit deeper where like the oil glands are. And I can put Botox in there to help with redness and decrease the pore size and oiliness. I can put vitamin C tranexamic acid in there to help decrease the pigmentation. I can put a little filler in there to help with like the fine, fine lines without adding too much. And then you have. I call it injectable skincare. It's called Volight, which you guys have had for a really long time. For us it's skin vive where it's like hyaluronic acid but it's almost like so watery and that's going to help. It helps like the aquaporins and really on like that skin level where it hydrates the skin. So I think this is where like skin care and aesthetic procedures are going to really mesh.

[Jill Dunn]

And that one, if I'm not mistaken, it's just like more superficially injected.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

So it's not, it could, it doesn't have the same longevity Maybe, but correct. Yeah.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Say like six months or something. And because it's not going super, super deep, I don't think you have. I mean, there's always a risk of anything, right. Where it can react to old filler, you can get nodules, but it's not going so deep into those compartments in your face where it's obstructing that lymphatic drainage. So I think that's one good aspect of it. Those, you know, salmon sperm facial was everywhere. And that's really because of that ingredient, polydeoxyribonucleotides, the pdrn, which are like, like the building blocks of DNA, almost like similar to peptides. And I think that's gonna be really huge. Kind of. Again. Yeah, I do. Because it's already in some skincare. They just, like, don't talk about it. And I personally think that's like more like Botox in a bottle type thing. But I think PDRN and a lot of stuff's coming from, like, South Korea and they're just like, so ahead, you know?

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, Love that. Well, thank you so much, Dr. Sheila. This has been so informative. And we are gonna do a pod swap where we're on dermaproof, so everybody go check that out. Thank you so much.

[Unnamed Speaker (Select Quote Ad)]

Oh, of course. You guys are awesome.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail] While.

[Jill Dunn]

You'Re there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a.

[Carlene Higgins]

Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Jill Dunn]

And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Carlene Higgins]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-2270-302.

[Jill Dunn]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Carlene Higgins]

See you next Wednesday.

[Jill Dunn]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products.

[Carlene Higgins]

Or services referred to in this episode.