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Breaking Beauty Podcast
Bonus! Why Lucy Hale is Swapping Her “21-Step” Routine for J-Beauty Minimalism and More Derm-Approved Skincare Tips with Dr. Jenny Liu
00:45:47
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- [00:01]
A
The following podcast is a Dear Media production. Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.
- [00:22]
B
Welcome everybody today to this live episode of Breaking Beauty podcast. I'm Jill Dunn and this is my co host over here, Carlene Higgins.
- [00:31]
A
Hello everyone.
- [00:32]
B
And hello to our friends in the live audience today. Thank you for being here, everyone.
- [00:39]
A
Yes. And hello to our listeners at home and for anyone new who's joining us, we are two longtime magazine beauty editors. That's how we got our start. And we are on the air every single week talking about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. And we've been podcasting for nine years now.
- [01:00]
C
Wow.
- [01:00]
A
Yeah.
- [01:01]
B
And it's an honor to be in New York with all of you and for this special collaboration with Shiseido Talks. And we're going to be exploring skincare rituals and holistic beauty the Shiseido way, which I love. And we have two very special guests joining us today. First up, I'd like to introduce Dr. Jenny Liu. Hi Dr. Liu, welcome.
- [01:23]
C
Thank you for having me.
- [01:24]
A
Such an honor to be here.
- [01:26]
B
Very special, so great to see you. And Dr. Liu is one of the the most trusted voices in skincare education today. She's a Washington based board certified dermatologist, adjunct assistant professor at the University of Minnesota Medical School. She has nearly 2 million followers on social media. I'm sure many of you follow her. And she's built a reputation as a nationally recognized expert in cosmetic dermatology with a special focus on skin of color, cosmetic innovation and evidence based skincare.
- [01:58]
C
Yeah, a lovely introduction like, go on.
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A
And also we are thrilled to introduce Lucy Hale, talented actress, producer and a candid voice really, when it comes to self care and beauty. Welcome to the podcast, Lucy.
- [02:16]
D
Thank you. So happy to be here.
- [02:19]
C
Hi everyone.
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A
The audience, I'm sure many of you are familiar and are probably fans with Lucy from Pretty Little Liars where she played Aria Montgomery. And Lucy also just wrapped Legacy, a horror film alongside Jack Whitehall and Angelica Houston. Plus she has over 24 million followers on Instagram, which is a big deal around here.
- [02:45]
B
So thank you both for being here. It's so great to meet you both. And when it comes to skincare rituals, we often think about a ten step routine. I think many of us in the room who report on beauty, we've talked about that a lot, but really, who has the time? That's what I'm saying in today's conversation. We're gonna kind of unpack that notion and we're gonna lean into the simple. We're going to look at some sometimes overlooked tweaks in our routine and our daily beauty and wellness routines that can make a genuine impact. And I love that we're doing it in this very Zen space. It's so nice here, everyone. And by the way, if anyone wants to tag anything today, it's Shiseido.
- [03:22]
D
And I was like, is this a sound healing room? It feels like they do some pretty deep meditations in here.
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B
I heard through the grapevine that there's like special crys baked into the floor.
- [03:32]
D
Let's take a nap. Let's do it.
- [03:34]
B
Wow. Let's get the tarot cards out. No say less.
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A
And of course, we love a scoop around here at Breaking Beauty Podcast. We're always talking products. And so we're going to be learning about Shiseido's latest innovation from the Benefiance collection that promises brighter, smoother skin in just two weeks. Plus, stay tuned to the end for a fun round of rapid fire.
- [03:58]
B
Okay?
- [03:59]
A
Yes. So let's dive in. I was fortunate enough to visit Japan a few years ago with one of Shiseido's sister skincare companies. And that's really when personally I fell in love with J Beauty. Japanese beauty in general. I love the ritualistic aspect behind it. I also find the formulas to be so lightweight, so elegant, and they always have like a hydrating component to it, which really goes with my, my skin type. And I feel like for everybody, it's. I'm just a huge fan. So Dr. Liu, I want to get from you though, like, how would you define as a professional, as a dermatologist, what is J Beauty? And I've seen your videos on YouTube where you're going deep on K Beauty, C Beauty. So like, what makes J Beauty so unique?
- [04:49]
C
Yeah, Japanese skincare, I think you guys kind of defined it as that ritual aspect, right? But to me, it's not just like that self care part of ritual, but also time and dedication. J Beauty, I like to describe it as more simplicity, consistency for that long term skin health. Right? The fact that your skin quality and skin health is built over like decades, not overnight transformation. And also like you said, it's really that thoughtful formulation, like using science backed ingredients used through history, but really that unique formula that prioritizes the texture, the elegance, and also like the tolerability again going back to consistency. So that way you can use it without getting irritated, without reacting. And that's, you know, the whole Asian skincare. I do love the fact that they Are more about prevention. Like, right. Taking care of your skin long term versus maybe like the western philosophy is more like, okay, I see a problem, I need to get that fixed and I want to get that fixed quickly. So it's more that prevention. But with Japanese skincare, it's more. Even more simple and more that routine. Like everything has a purpose. Very intentional. And then yeah, like, and the difference like in the Koreans, as you said, it's like 10 steps, right? Multiple steps to layer in the hydration, which again is going back to healthy skin barrier. But I like to think ingredient wise Korean skincare tends to be like chasing the trends or setting the trends. The next innovation, the new formulation. And then Chinese skincare, I feel like it's still evolving, but I do see it whenever I go back to China. It's kind of like a little bit of everything. Like influences from Japanese Korean skincare in terms of like the ingredients, the textures, but then also like honing in on like some of the western philosophy. Like for a while it's still probably trending, but like the vitamin C in the morning and the retinoids at night. There was like a term in Chinese where It's like C A M 8pm that like that. That is. So it's kind of evolving still. But yeah, I think for me, Japanese skincare, long winded answer. More just like prevention, minimalism and that routine aspect. Yeah, that's huge.
- [07:04]
A
Yeah, I agree. Also like that time honored tradition and ingredients like blended with modern innovation. I feel like that's kind of what J Beauty has unlock. Absolutely.
- [07:16]
B
And Lucy, when you hear the term J Beauty, what does it mean to you?
- [07:20]
D
It means I need to go to Japan. I have never been and I'm telling you, I feel so called to just that culture in general, the food, the fashion, we can go together.
- [07:31]
B
I have not.
- [07:32]
D
This is a dream come true. I need to go with someone who knows the places go everything. I echo everything you just said. Like, I am borderline obsessed with anything skin care related. I always have been. And that came from just struggling with my skin. And like, I think for a while, as we do and maybe because of my industry, it's like chasing this idea of perfection that just doesn't exist because once you reach it, you're like, oh wait, I don't feel the way I thought I was gonna feel. And I much more love this approach of really honing it down, like taking it back a notch. Like there's a video of me circulating where I did years ago, like a 21 step skincare routine. Literally, I'm talking out of my. Like, I don't know what I'm talking about, but it comes from this love of, you know, self care. And it really, like my skin care routine, it really is my me time, and it is a ritual. And in that ritual, like, I. I make it about, like, being really kind to myself, I think. And finding products that align with that, I think is really important, which is why I love Shiseido products. And I think, and I love them as a brand because it really is about long term, long term goal, not this, like, impulsive quick fix that I think some of us can get caught up in.
- [08:51]
A
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I was. I was very privileged to have actually somebody from Shiseido take me to a Japanese drugstore. It's back in our archives. You can find this episode. And she showed me everything to buy. And of course, Shiseido has so many brands in Japan that they don't even sell here. So, like, I got to try everything. It was amazing. Dr. Liu, what would a typical Japanese skincare routine look like? Maybe you could give us an example, because we like to get specific, right?
- [09:21]
C
Yeah. It's actually not as complicated as. Cause I think we immediately think, like, you know, all Asian skincare is like 10 steps, like Korean skincare, but it's actually more simple with intention. And so you probably want to start off with a gentle cleanser. And a lot of people do double cleanse with like an oil cleanser followed by like a water cleanser just to remove everything. And then you go in with like an essence. Or in Japan, they call it lotion. So it's kind of our version of a liquid toner, essentially, but it's different because it's more hydrating with actives. And you layer it on. And again, it's about not just the product in the formulation, but how you apply. You're like patting it in so it gets absorbed, taking that time, that moment for yourself. And I love this whole line because it's very intentional. Like, even I was learning earlier, the way it's like bottled and the scent of it, aroma ecology, like, it kind of already starts you on this journey of trying to wind down, calming yourself, taking care of yourself. Anyways, after the, you know, the lotion, you do the moisturizer usually, or like a serum followed by a moisturizer. And then in the morning, it is the sunscreen. So really probably just like five steps at most, and so a lot more simple. But each product is layered with active, so you are still getting the benefits. Without, you know, layering on so many things that can irritate. Again, kind of going back to more like that. Simplicity and minimalism, but still working well so that we can stick to it long term.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Let's not forget the Shiseido cotton pads.
- [10:56]
A
Yeah.
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B
The most luxe ones going. And I'm obsessed. I'm obsessed.
- [11:02]
A
So, yes, Japanese lotion, as you talk about that is. It's more like a toner, but really is not. Yeah, I've written about that before. Most underrated stuff.
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C
Yes, I was gonna say.
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A
So underrated skincare routine.
- [11:13]
D
I don't have that. Oh, I know.
- [11:17]
C
Like, my first time trying, I'm like, how is this water gonna make my skin feel hydrated? But it, it is, it does.
- [11:24]
B
Very calming.
- [11:25]
A
It's kind of like a liquid toner. Little bit more plumpness to it.
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D
Okay.
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A
And so when you apply it, it does. It's like instant juiciness kind of thing. And nobody does it like the J Beauty does. Nobody.
- [11:37]
C
It doesn't. Doesn't leave like residue. No, I get, like sticky.
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A
That's the beauty of it. Okay, so we've done our research around here, and from what I understand, in Japan there's a time honored tradition of kaizen, which directly translates to good change. And it's the idea that you can reach your goals in increments. So baby steps during the day result in long term cumulative results, like 1% better every day. So, Dr. Liu, what would be some examples of some skincare habits that would give you that best improvement over time? Like a little thing.
- [12:14]
C
Oh, I. I mean, I feel like people have said so much, like, wear sunscreen every single day. No, but I'm not going to say that. I'm going to say, you know, don't touch your face. I said this earlier. I just touched my face. I guess I do feel, you know, that number one, you're probably rubbing off some of the sunscreen, but you're maybe transferring bacteria. And especially if you're a picker, you're, I think, just not touching your face, giving your skin some time to rest. So you're not constantly, like kind of attacking your skin barrier. That would be one. I mean, I feel like I could go on and on.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Okay, that's a good one.
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D
Yeah, I'm a skin picker. You know what, that, you know, I know I shouldn't say that, but all
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C
dermatologists, I feel like our pickers, that's why we went to dermatology.
- [13:00]
D
Well, then you get in those hotel mirrors. That should be illegal. That get too close.
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C
Yeah.
- [13:05]
D
Then you have no choice.
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B
I'm friends with one of those in my bathroom this morning at the hotel, and I go, this should not be. It's like attempting. I gotta go.
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D
Like, overhead lighting. Yeah.
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A
No.
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D
Why is that not like this?
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B
This is nice. Yeah.
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A
No, this is safe space.
- [13:20]
D
Fluorescent overhead lighting. No.
- [13:22]
B
Absolutely. And how does this concept of kais in this 1% better every day resonate with you, Lucy? It's.
- [13:28]
D
It's really. It resonates much more now at 36, than it did when I was, you know, 21 and wanting that. I want it to be better now. Like, it's. But I think that is. I was chasing the wrong thing. I think what I've always been chasing is, like, being at home with myself, being at peace with myself. I think, like, my approach to skincare, my approach to makeup, my approach to beauty, like, we can put on all the products in the world and all the makeup in the world, but, like, you have to feel good in your own skin. And so I think this approach of a baby step each day and not. And. And it's. It's. It's a. What do they say? It's a marathon, not a sprint. Right. And it really is. And I think just finding a way to be more gentle with myself and using more gentle products, like, it really is a lifestyle. Yeah.
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A
Yeah.
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B
What about, like, adjacent to that, like, sleep or social connection? Like, other things that make you 1% better every day or like that Maybe you have a specific example that you've worked on.
- [14:28]
A
Yeah.
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D
No, I genuinely think you glow more when you're around people that you love. Like, truly, like, there's just something internal that happens. Your aura, if you will. I mean, definitely sleep, definitely how you're treating your body, water, all the things. But I think there is something that happens when you are, like, living your truth and living your joy. Chasing joy, being creative.
- [14:52]
B
Yeah. All of you.
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D
Can't put a price on that.
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A
Yeah.
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B
We recently learned that social connectedness is actually the biggest predictor of longevity in, like, all the other things. Eating well, exercising. There's, like, six or seven pillars. But social connectedness makes us live longer. And actually, it made all kinds of sense to me.
- [15:13]
D
Have you guys seen a documentary called Happy?
- [15:16]
A
No.
- [15:17]
D
Please watch it. It probably came out 20 years ago, and it's a documentary. I think it's on Netflix somewhere. You can watch it, but it's a documentary about. They travel to different places in the world and they interview the people around the world of what makes them feel the most fulfilled. And, like, the definition of happiness everywhere is so different. Like, in America, it's money, it's success. In Japan, it's like hustle. Right? It's like, people work so hard in Japan, and then there's this. I think it's a tiny island off of Japan where these people live to be, like, 115. And I think they said their secret is sake and sleep, but also community. Community. Like they. When they have kids, it's raised in the community, and they're always there for each other. So there really is something to like, we're meant to have that as humans, I think.
- [16:08]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So I love the idea of the ritual, but I also have my personal tagline, which is, I'm lazy slash busy. You know, just realistically, it's hard. We've got the podcast, I've got another business, I've got two kids. So I think that idea of being present is so important, but really tough to do. You guys living in New York, I'm sure you're always thinking about the next thing. So can you tell us what could we do, like, in the next two weeks? Because we're going to be talking about what you can achieve in two weeks. What could we do that we actually would notice a difference in two weeks?
- [16:45]
C
I think one thing that's underrated is moisturizing your skin.
- [16:49]
A
Yeah.
- [16:50]
C
Again, going back to that skin barrier story. When your skin barrier is healthy, your skin is just going to look better and it's going to do its job way better, helping with maybe uneven tone and texture. It's going to be better hydrated, kind of going back to the core of J Beauty. What I think of this is kind of that foundation routine that you can stick to, that can make a big difference and just the quality of your skin without having to do a lot. And that's easy to stick with, too, with a busy lifestyle.
- [17:18]
A
Yeah. We get asked this all the time lately, why skin is now referred to as skin barrier instead of just skin. And I think, like, from a practical point of view, it's just easier to understand that when your skin barrier is kind of broken. I always think about it, the bricks in a wall. It can lead to so much more damage, whether it's like rosacea. I had perimenopausal rosacea come up. There's so many things that are linked to skin barrier. And I would say just like, just moisturize every day if you can just do that.
- [17:50]
C
I mean, I like to say, like, your skin is kind of like leather you know, like in the sense where you have to take care of your leather, you have to, you know, maybe lotion that. Otherwise if it cracks, it's not going to look good, it's not going to function well. Our skin is the same thing. You know, obviously it's meant to hold us together, but it has more to that. There's actually. It has its own dedicated immune system in our skin and there's temperature regulation. So aside from, you know, the function of it to the aesthetics of it, it's meant to kind of keep bad things out and keep good things in, like the water. And so even minor cracks, like, not like a cut in your skin, but minor cracks, like you said in that brick and mortar, things can get in. This is where you can get sensitivity, can get dryness and kind of, you know, like the irritation. And so taking care of our skin at that basic level is so important.
- [18:37]
B
And, Lucy, how would you say that your own skin and skincare ritual as a result has changed from your early 20s? So basically when you started Pretty Little Liars till now?
- [18:46]
D
I mean, I think beauty was just so different then. I think it was really a more is more approach. Like, that was when all the, you know, 15 step skincare routines were coming into play. And definitely with makeup, it was just like the 2016 era strip lashes. I was like, I loved an eyeliner like that. Just super bronzy, bronzy look, I think. And maybe this just happens with age as well. I booked. I started that show when I was 19, 20, and I think when you're that age, sometimes you're trying to mask in a way.
- [19:19]
A
Absolutely.
- [19:19]
D
But now I'm more comfortable in my own skin. And there's so much research now that, like, simple is better, being consistent is better, especially for my skin type. Like, I will break out if you look at me the wrong way. You know, like, I have to use things that. That's like me. Yeah, yeah. And even at 36, I'm like, does it stop? No, it keeps happening.
- [19:38]
B
I'm here to tell you from the future that it doesn't.
- [19:41]
D
That's all right.
- [19:42]
B
But, you know, I think we do what we're.
- [19:44]
D
We can. We do.
- [19:44]
B
I feel like you're going to be okay, but.
- [19:47]
D
Yeah, we all will. Yeah. So I think it's just more simple all around.
- [19:52]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, you know what? I. I've done some work on camera and just like, making peace with your face on camera or like, peace with your pores, like, I think that that can be very not triggering. That's not the right word, but it's a learning curve.
- [20:08]
D
I'm so glad you brought this up, because I think it's so important to remember that skin has texture. I think it's like, I got. I get so used to seeing things online where I'm like, oh, maybe I'm not supposed to, but it's like, skin even and healthy skin has texture, has pores, and I think really making peace with that, especially when you're in front of a camera, and I haven't quite gotten there. But, you know, you work on it.
- [20:34]
C
It's a process.
- [20:35]
B
One percent better every day. Lucy. There we go.
- [20:39]
D
Way to bring it back.
- [20:43]
A
I want to ask you. I'm almost embarrassed to ask you this because you are so young. And I'm 50, by the way. Proud of 50.
- [20:49]
D
Wow.
- [20:49]
A
But I want to ask you about aging in Hollywood. You're still a baby, but you have been vocal about aging and expectations and that. So maybe you could just share some of your thoughts.
- [21:01]
D
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, it's. I can only. I've been in entertainment since I was 15, so I don't know it differently. I'm sure it's this way in just out in the world in general with women. I think there's just a pressure to keep up with the trends. Keep up with on TikTok. Oh, I need to buy this thing. I need this machine.
- [21:21]
C
I need.
- [21:22]
D
And I think there is a pressure in Hollywood, definitely, like, aging is sometime, and I think it's come a long way. But I think maybe aging is viewed as you have an expiration date. But there's so many women who are having huge comebacks in their career, like Demi Moore and all these amazing women. And, like, you know, look at Meryl Streep and Glenn Close, like, these beautiful women who have aged so gracefully. Like, it's a gift to age. It is a gift to grow old. Like, and I'm not saying I've made peace with that, but, like, I think kind of having that mentality will bleed into everything. And I, you know, I care about how my skin looks, but I also know that I want to age as gracefully as possible. But, yeah, there is a pressure, but I think. I don't know. It definitely is there. I'm, like, being very careful about what I'm saying, but it definitely is there. But I also think everyone has their own idea of what beautiful is for them. And I never judge what anyone is doing, because if that inherently makes you feel more beautiful and you can show up in the world and feel better. Like, more power to you. It's not up to anyone. Like, I hate when I'm online and I see people judge a public person who they know nothing about, about the way they look or because of something they've done. It's like you don't know the story behind that. There's so much more going on. And I think I've learned that people just kind of project anyway.
- [22:52]
B
So I think you make a good point, though, that there's actually role models that like the fact that Meryl Streep is in the biggest movie that's coming out versus, like, 25, 30 years ago, you didn't have as many incredible roles for women who were not 20. So now at least there is a path.
- [23:11]
D
Right.
- [23:12]
B
You know, and I love the Reese Witherspoon model where she just like, scoops up her project.
- [23:15]
C
Oh, yes.
- [23:16]
D
Nicole Kidman.
- [23:18]
B
And just cast talent. Definitely women in charge helps that happen.
- [23:23]
A
Right.
- [23:23]
D
Well, and I think also. And then. I'm sorry, I'll let you move on. I think it's evolved so much because even a decade ago, two decades ago, women were still just like, okay, just be beautiful. But now women are doing so much more. Like, we care about what we have to say that it doesn't even have to do with the way that we look. Like, we are full of ideas. I think we're being celebrated more for our creativity and ideas and strength. More and more each day. One percent more each day.
- [23:50]
B
Exactly. Exactly. And, Lucy, what about the wellness trends that are blowing up this year in your A lister group chat? Because I want to know, what are your PE intrigued by? What are you intrigued by? Because we know in Hollywood they get to try everything first. Are you a guinea pig?
- [24:04]
D
So I will try. I will try anything.
- [24:07]
B
You will?
- [24:08]
D
I will. You guys probably know more of the trends than me. I feel like everyone is talking about peptides.
- [24:13]
B
Yes, yes.
- [24:14]
D
And I don't know that much about it, but, like, I'm intrigued. People are obsessed with, like, in la, it's just like, peptide and it's called a stack injected.
- [24:23]
C
Yeah.
- [24:24]
D
And people are doing. What are we doing? Like, people love lasers. People love. What are the other. What are the cool things? You guys probably know more than me.
- [24:33]
A
Yeah. I mean, the IV spa. I just went to one in Denver because I had altitude sickness. But I was like, thank goodness these exist.
- [24:42]
D
I know.
- [24:42]
A
People can just go in for what you need. I'll take some B12. I'll take some vitamin C. So I feel like that's a real thing. Now the other thing that we're seeing in Toronto and you guys probably have this year as well, but I feel like the whole social wellness clubs, like spas, where it's more like people go as a group and you do all kinds of activities just like where we are here. Yeah, but there's like places where you can even go at night and there's a DJ and they have like special like non alcoholic drinks. Like it's a. It's more of like a community, like health community. Yeah, like social wellness. Social wellness.
- [25:20]
D
Very cool.
- [25:21]
A
Right. And what about you, Dr. Liu? What regular wellness activities are you actually doing versus something that might be trendy that you're not as into sleep?
- [25:33]
C
I think sleep is so important as you get. Like in my 40s now, I have two little kids. I'm constantly sleep deprived, especially with work and travel. And I think one night of bad sleep I might will not only reflect in my body but in my skin. You know, your skin gets dry and gets more easily irritated. And you know, if you think about it, our skin is doing just, just like the rest of our body doing most of the repair at night. Right. And so if you're not sleeping well, I think that definitely can take a toll long term on just your like skin health. And we know that ages, you're faster. So I feel like no skincare routine can replace a good night of sleep or just consistent sleep if you can put all the wonderful products. But if you're not taking care of yourself comprehensively, right, like diet, exercise and sleep, then you're not going to get the best results.
- [26:23]
B
I need to ask you about something. You said before that our skin has an immune system.
- [26:26]
C
Yeah.
- [26:27]
B
So what happens if you don't sleep enough? Does that affect your skin immunity?
- [26:31]
C
Absolutely. So there's actually conditions like, you know, psoriasis and eczema. We see that it's actually the immune system in our skin acting up. We don't know chicken and the egg is a genetic trigger versus the environment versus the barrier defect that causes. But yeah, we have a, like a huge immune system in our skin and when we don't sleep well, there is increase in cortisol and that drives inflammatory cells and that inflammation can increase like you know, redness, rosacea, FL acne. And then you know, your skin is, you know, repairing at night and so it's going to reduce its ability to repair so that inflammation can definitely break down your skin barrier. And certainly over time that can manifest as like on human skin texture and skin Tone, too.
- [27:15]
B
Lucy, what about Hollywood treatments? We kind of touched on this, but there seems to be a new one popping up every week. And I read that you even auditioned for the Substance.
- [27:23]
D
I did, yeah.
- [27:24]
B
Which, of course, explores the dark side of, you know, chasing the fountain of youth. What are your thoughts on these types of. More Those interventions, let's say. And no judgment, because I love. I love Botox, I think, but I
- [27:37]
D
think it goes back to, like. Like, I will try, you know, whatever. To each their own. I really think, like, my version is different from your version. And, yeah, I mean, people. There's so many. There's so many things out there these days. And, you know, for me, I'm more. I think I lean more, like, holistic these days, like a holistic approach. But I remembered one thing where you were like, what are people talking about? Fascia release and masseter release. Like, and scalp fascia. Like, it does. It, like, lifts your face. And so that, to me, is really fascinating. Like, I had a facial with this woman named Leanne a couple weeks ago, and she does. She does, like, microcurrent, all the things, beautiful products. But she did, like, fascia release all the way down to my chest. And, like, how she released here affected something here, and, like, she released my scalp, and it opened my eyeballs. She opened up my sinuses. My eyeballs, like, literally got bigger. So there are things you can do at home like that. I mean, that makes sense because we
- [28:36]
C
do Botox to your muscle to help lift. So, you know, it's kind of tethered down. So if you release that, it helps
- [28:44]
D
just overall, it just, like, pops up. Like, I used to do Botox in my jaw because I have TMJ like, no other. But it changed the way my. My face shaped, so I stopped doing it. So when you do the masseter release, it's so painful. But have you ever had it?
- [28:59]
C
I've had it because I get TMJ symptoms.
- [29:01]
D
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it really helps. It helps with headaches and everything, but basically they, like, go in and did
- [29:05]
B
it still feel like a facial or did it feel like a chiropractic treatment on your face?
- [29:09]
D
It felt like an exorcism.
- [29:11]
B
That's what I want to know.
- [29:12]
D
Yeah, like. Like, this is the facial where you. You might not fully zone out, but you're like. You were more involved.
- [29:19]
B
Yeah.
- [29:19]
D
Yes.
- [29:20]
B
Yes. That's what I mean. I've had lymphatic drainage, and I think that's just, like, the next iteration of that. And that's amazing. As well, right. It's just that holistic thing.
- [29:30]
D
Yeah.
- [29:31]
B
And then you're like. It kind of makes a light bulb go off where you're like, oh, yeah. Everything is connected.
- [29:36]
C
So connected. Yeah, definitely.
- [29:37]
A
I can't remember who we interviewed. And they were talking about the scalp, the power of the scalp massage. And that is a treatment because they're like, like, first of all, our skin, that is part of our face, really, it's our. It's just up here. And so they're like, if you think about it and you're pulling back here, it's all lifting. Like, if you want this lifted, you have to start up here. I was like, didn't really think about that. I guess it doesn't end here. It's really. Right. So it's like you almost need to be focusing more up there. Yeah.
- [30:09]
B
And.
- [30:10]
A
Yeah.
- [30:10]
B
Well, again, so many people are doing like brow lifts and stuff, and you're like, girl, you gotta.
- [30:14]
A
Yeah, it's a ponytail. Ponytail, brow lift. Yeah, man. Okay, I think it's time to get into the innovation of the day. So, Dr. Liu, I'm excited to talk to you about the latest and greatest from Shiseido. The new Benefiance products that promise brightening and smoothing in just 14 days. That's just an incredible claim. So how many of you are fans of Benefiance? Do you know the eye cream already, it's like iconic. So many people love that. What do you say to people who say, maybe I don't need an eye cream?
- [30:52]
C
I think especially as you get older, in our 30s and 40s, this is a time to think about it. Because with aging, we get more dry skin and eye dark circles and puffiness. I mean, that is one of the most common concerns I actually get consultation wise in my. In my practice. And so you want products that specifically address the eye area because your eye is one of the most delicate on the face and then with ingredients that help. And it's really nice because this eye cream, it targets five different areas. Not all eye creams are tested and can be used on upper eyelid. And also helps with the Glabella, which is really nice because we all have those like stubborn wrinkles that won't go
- [31:29]
B
away between the eyebrows.
- [31:32]
C
Yeah. The lemons here, inner eye and then puffiness and dark circle scene. It's got wonderful ingredients like peptides, squalane, ginseng, caffeine are working together to help. So I, I do feel eye cream, especially as we get older, is something that I always recommend to my patients to really help Address those just stubborn, like, dryness that, you know, people say like my, my concealer is caking. I can't, you know. So that eye cream really helps with that.
- [32:00]
A
Who knew you apply your eye cream here to your 11s. You heard it here first. Yeah, you do it here.
- [32:07]
C
I mean, this, this eye cream is so.
- [32:09]
D
It's thick.
- [32:10]
C
It's thick, but it's got a nice slip and it doesn't like, cause your makeup to like, you know, fall down, which is what I love. But it provides just the amount of. The right amount of hydration and what you need. So, yeah, you do it everywhere. All the fine lines.
- [32:26]
D
Yeah.
- [32:26]
A
Off label.
- [32:27]
C
Off label, yeah.
- [32:29]
B
And Dr. Liu, what were your first thoughts when the benefiance range, they presented the research to you and said there's results in as few as 14 days. Usually it's like 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 120 days. So 14 days, I'm going, what? So what was your reaction?
- [32:44]
C
I would say healthy skepticism.
- [32:47]
B
Yeah.
- [32:47]
C
Because yes, you are right. 14 days, that is a pretty bold claim. Right. But then I look at their studies, they have clinicals, which is something I appreciate as a dermatologist. And it is long term. And you know, Shiseido has that like 12 week out. But what we are doing, seeing that 14 day is really the impact of the skincare, the ritual from Shiseido Benefiance line and helping with skin hydration and that barrier health is how I think of it because our skin turns over anywhere between 28 to maybe a little bit longer than 30 days as we get older. But that 14 day is actually the top layer of your skin, the stratum cornea. I'm turning over. So I think, at least for me to make sense of it in the science, is that you are improving your top layer. So that skin barrier. Right. Hydrating your skin. And with that, your skin is going to look softer, smoother, better in texture. And then with that better turnover, it's going to look more bright and so may help with some of that uneven tone.
- [33:46]
A
Right.
- [33:47]
B
That's what's really addressing. Okay.
- [33:48]
C
And then long term, the permanent changes comes with more consistent.
- [33:52]
A
Three months.
- [33:52]
C
Yeah.
- [33:52]
B
Yeah.
- [33:53]
D
I was about to say, I feel like I could hear you talk about
- [33:55]
C
anything with such clarity. I'm like
- [34:00]
A
the practice of social media,
- [34:02]
C
I guess, very good at it.
- [34:03]
D
Thank you.
- [34:04]
A
Thank you. Okay, so the new products, the Benefiance Dark Spot and Wrinkle Smoothing Serum and also the new Benefiance Brightening and Wrinkle Smoothing Cream.
- [34:17]
D
Nailed it.
- [34:18]
A
Yes.
- [34:18]
B
Yes.
- [34:20]
A
So they both contain. I will have to look at my notes for this because this is a new ingredient I had not heard of even as a beauty editor of over 20 years. It's called picao preto. So what is this extract and how does it benefit the skin?
- [34:34]
C
I love talking about ingredients and science
- [34:37]
A
when I get like super excited.
- [34:39]
B
Oh my gosh.
- [34:39]
C
Okay, so PI preto extract. So this is really cool. It's a basically like you can think of it as like a plant derived retinol. And why I really love kind of the formulation, what we're discovering with plant derived is that it's so fascinating. This particular extract actually binds to the receptor atop like for example tretinoin, which we think of as like the holy grail. It actually binds to the retinal receptors in the skin. That's how like tretinoin works when you think about like the OG binds to the receptors and that's how it activates genes and does what it does, helping with collagen, helping with skin turnover. But then the dark side of topical retinoids is that it does also irritate the skin. And we think because there's certain, there are a couple different receptors in our skin and so that causes the irritation and then one causes the benefits. And with the cacao pittle extract, it actually binds the receptor that offers the benefits but doesn't bind to the one that causes irritation. To my understanding by reading the literature. So what essentially is doing is giving you the benefits of a topical retinoids and helping with skin turnover, helping long term with collagen support, but not the irritation.
- [35:48]
D
That's good to know because sometimes I only think something's working if I like,
- [35:51]
C
yeah, feel the burn, feel the burn.
- [35:53]
D
But it's not always the best way, is it?
- [35:56]
B
Well, that is the North American way, right?
- [36:00]
C
Because in Asia complain if they feel stuff like their skincare is causing sensation.
- [36:05]
D
That's so cool.
- [36:06]
C
In China, you know, people all have comment on Red note. People say like this burns or this stinks. Is this supposed to be this way?
- [36:12]
D
Somebody in me in a face so I'm like, make it more. I would feel it.
- [36:16]
A
Yeah, it's true though. I think this is why like again, as editors we're always surveying the market and there's like a built in sensitivity check or something where it's like if it, if it's going to sensitize, it just is not in there.
- [36:30]
B
Which I think.
- [36:30]
C
Well, going back to the whole concept like tolerability, that's how I think of Japanese skincare. Is like well formulated products that you can use long term.
- [36:38]
B
I just think it's amazing how far we've come with like a plant based retinol.
- [36:41]
D
I always wonder how they go about knowing which plant I know.
- [36:47]
B
I actually have followed this like ethanol botanist.
- [36:50]
D
Oh really?
- [36:50]
B
She does all of these amazing videos about like finding these ingredients and making them work. It's fascinating.
- [36:58]
A
What a cool job.
- [36:58]
B
Very, very cool. And Lucy, I need to know, how are you using this new benefiance serum and brightening moisturizer in your rout?
- [37:06]
D
Yeah, I mean I love when things are simplified for me. Like when I know the product and the line is trusted. I'm getting everything I need it really, you know, I have more time to do other things right. So I love that. Like to me, if your skincare is amazing, you don't really need like much more makeup or anything else. So these products really work and what I like about them, sensitive skin, it doesn't irritate my skin and it's very lightweight. Like I, I don't know if I feel like things are too heavy on my skin, I get a little panicky. But ye. Yeah. Beautiful ingredients. Science backed.
- [37:40]
B
Have you guys tried the serum yet?
- [37:42]
D
Oh, it's so nice.
- [37:43]
B
It's like this milky texture that they just nailed. It's kind of like a gel milk.
- [37:47]
D
Yeah.
- [37:48]
B
So good. Yeah. The packaging, the hydra is amazing. Beautiful. Well, you might as well drop your whole skincare routine for us.
- [37:55]
D
That's it, babe. That's it. No, that, no it really like as far as products, it really is that simple. Like I do, you know, I like a little gua sha. I like a little LED light mask.
- [38:06]
B
Yeah.
- [38:06]
D
I try to, you know, visit the dermatologist. I think being consistent with facials, just like my skin can get clogged. So just like getting all the stuff out.
- [38:16]
B
Do you sheet mask on the plane or not? I do.
- [38:18]
C
You know what else I do?
- [38:19]
D
I do all the things. I bring in my LED mask. Sometimes I bring my, my heating pad. Sometimes like I do.
- [38:26]
C
I do.
- [38:27]
D
Anything you can do, I do. Yeah, like I compression socks. Anyway, I'm. Now I'm going down.
- [38:34]
B
I respect the travel skincare game and I need to get more into it.
- [38:37]
D
I do find that hydrating your skin with a sheet mask, it really does, it really does help.
- [38:41]
A
Yeah.
- [38:42]
B
Do you do that doctor Who?
- [38:43]
C
I don't do on the plane as much unless it's like international flight. But what I would do is like before an event or like at night time. Yeah.
- [38:50]
D
Like a hotel.
- [38:51]
B
Okay.
- [38:53]
D
Yeah.
- [38:54]
B
I love that.
- [38:54]
D
Yeah.
- [38:55]
A
Love it. And our last question for you, Dr. Liu, what are some habits that you would never do that would have a big impact on your skin in just two weeks?
- [39:06]
C
I would never. I don't think I've ever gone to sleep without washing my face.
- [39:10]
A
Yeah.
- [39:11]
C
Yeah. I think that's really important in. Because that buildup will not only cause acne, but actually it can serve as, like, irritant to your skin barrier. And if your skin is repairing itself, most of us sleep at night then, or just when you sleep kind of. You have your own internal circadian rhythm. You want to really give it the best opportunity to repair itself. So I think I would never not wash my face.
- [39:35]
A
I used to give myself a pass if I wasn't having. If I wasn't wearing makeup. Like, if I was having a no makeup day, I was like, well, why do I really need to wash my face? But you probably would. What would you say about that?
- [39:45]
C
Well, use sunscreen. Sunscreen. And just throughout the day, there's probably particulates, pollution that we know actually, aside from uv, that's another trigger for skin aging, or inflammation, we call it, because it affects your skin barrier. All that does impact, so all that subway does.
- [40:01]
D
Yeah, inflammation.
- [40:03]
C
Inflammation. That is like the basically low grade smoldering inflammation that contributes to accelerated aging. Yeah. Probably more so in the skin aspect because we see a lot of inflammatory diseases.
- [40:16]
B
Well, thank you so much for both sharing your excellent skincare insights.
- [40:20]
A
I learned a lot.
- [40:21]
B
So did I. Love that. Now we're going to do a little quick game of rapid fire, so let's go. All right.
- [40:29]
C
I'm a little nervous.
- [40:31]
B
You'll be fine. Lucy, what was the most used beauty essential on set in your Pretty Little Liars days?
- [40:37]
D
Oh, oh, like fake eyelashes. So many, so many lashes.
- [40:43]
A
Okay, Dr. Liu, best skincare advice you've ever received that lives rent free in your head.
- [40:51]
C
Sunscreen every single day, rain or shine. Prevention. Yeah, prevention is going to be much better than trying to fix it because you can never reverse it fully and nor do we want to. But yeah, prevention.
- [41:01]
A
I agree, Lucy.
- [41:03]
B
Pretty Little Liars. I'm sure it's no surprise to you. It's a lot of people's comfort show,
- [41:08]
D
which is so funny.
- [41:09]
B
When you see the TikTok comments, people, they're like, I'm on my third rewatch this year.
- [41:13]
D
I think it's because there's so many episodes and people, people like to dive.
- [41:16]
B
We need a 22 episode season again. What's your comfort show right now, Love on the Spectrum.
- [41:21]
D
Oh, yeah. I'm watching the new season right now. It's so sweet. It's so heart. It reminds you of all the good in the world. I love it. Have you seen it? Love on the Spectrum.
- [41:30]
B
It's really beautiful.
- [41:31]
D
Yeah.
- [41:32]
B
Yeah. I need to catch up on the most recent season, but I've seen it and I love it.
- [41:35]
D
There's a new guy, Logan, who's like an angel. It's very good.
- [41:39]
B
Okay. Wonderful, wonderful.
- [41:41]
A
Fill in the blank. My favorite way to end the day is.
- [41:44]
B
Do you want to go first?
- [41:45]
D
My gosh. Oh, I know.
- [41:47]
C
Mine.
- [41:47]
B
Yeah.
- [41:48]
A
No, you go.
- [41:48]
D
No, no, please.
- [41:49]
C
Oh, favorite to end the day, getting to bed on time. I don't know if that's really a. Well, I have younger kids. But going to sleep on time.
- [42:03]
B
I love it.
- [42:04]
D
Mine was a little similar. It was. My favorite way to end the day is in bed at like 9:30 with my dogs. Just like dog time. No, like crawling into bed knowing you're gonna get eight to ten hours of sleep.
- [42:16]
A
Yeah.
- [42:16]
D
I know you're a mom so you're like shut up. But six to eight. Six to eight hours sleep is just the best feeling.
- [42:24]
A
Yeah. And the dog snuggles are every.
- [42:25]
D
Forget about it.
- [42:26]
B
Yeah.
- [42:27]
A
Everything.
- [42:28]
B
Lucy, the one mantra or affirmation that you swear by to help you feel confident, maybe you're not having such a great day. What do you say to yourself?
- [42:36]
D
I always go back to. It's very simple. But I think a lot of times I can go into like fear mindset. So just reminding myself that I'm safe like always even. It's just as simple as that. Just like noticing things around me. Like anything that helps me get really present. Reminding myself that my two feet are on the ground and just being like putting my phone away. Just anything that brings me back to the present moment. I think I can run a little anxious. So anything that brings me into the current moment is key for me.
- [43:04]
B
Do you have one of those brick things for your phone? Do you know what I'm talking about?
- [43:08]
D
Does it like block?
- [43:09]
B
Do you guys know what I'm talking about? The brick, it basically prevents you from opening social media. You set it on a timer.
- [43:15]
D
I would be a good candidate for that.
- [43:17]
B
I'm interested in it. I'm interested chronically online. Right here. Right here.
- [43:23]
A
Lucy, what's one thing you can share with us about reuniting with Ian Harding from Pretty Little Liars for this upcoming movie? 12 Days of Christmas, your new holiday rom com coming out.
- [43:33]
C
Yeah.
- [43:34]
D
This Christmas. 12 dates, dates of Christmas dates, 12 days. So we shot that this last Christmas and I talked to the producers and I was like, you know what would be really fun is if we cast Ian as the lead opposite me. And it was so great. I hadn't worked with him since the show. I hadn't seen him in over five years. But it definitely, like, there's such an ease with working with him. There always has been. He's truly so kind and so deserving of all of his success. And we had a good time. He's exactly the same. We're like, oh, we're a bit older, but like we're playing more age appropriate characters this time around.
- [44:11]
A
So that's great.
- [44:13]
B
Well, thank you for sharing that little sneak peek. I'm excited to see.
- [44:16]
D
It's fun. It's fun. It'll come out this Christmas. Yeah.
- [44:18]
A
All right, well, thank you so much for you, Lucy, and for you, Dr. Liu, for joining us, and for all of you as well.
- [44:27]
D
Yay. Thank you guys.
- [44:29]
C
Thank you.
- [44:30]
D
Thank you for fun.
- [44:33]
A
Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog@breakingbeautypodcast.com While
- [44:42]
B
you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a single thing.
- [44:49]
A
And get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast and did you know
- [44:56]
B
we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.
- [45:01]
A
You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.
- [45:08]
B
And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.
- [45:19]
A
See you next Wednesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.
- [45:48]
B
Episode.
- [45:50]
D
You're listening to this podcast, so I know you've got a curious mind. Here's a helpful fact you might not know yet. Drivers who switch and save with Progressive save over $900 on average. Pop over to progressive.com, answer some questions, and you'll get a quick quote with discounts that are easy to come by. In fact, 99% of their auto customers earn at least one discount. Visit progressive.com and see if you can enjoy a little cash flow. Cashback Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates national average 12 month savings of $946 by new customers surveyed who saved with Progressive between June 2024 and May 2025. Potential savings will vary.
- [46:28]
A
Book a Loved by Guest property with VRBO and you get a top rated vacation rental that's loved for all the
- [46:33]
D
right reasons like being in a great location or having great amenities.
- [46:37]
B
Ugh.
- [46:37]
C
I love my VRBO for the view.
- [46:39]
D
Good reason.
- [46:40]
C
Ooh, and the sauna.
- [46:42]
B
Sweet.
- [46:43]
D
Another good reason. And that it's one of those good
- [46:45]
C
saunas with the hot rock thing.
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A
Love a good hot rock thing. Fancy.
- [46:50]
D
That's also a reason. Don't worry about surprises.
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A
Book a verbo you'll love with the
- [46:55]
D
Love by Guest filter.
- [46:56]
A
If you know you verbo.