Busting The Biggest Hair Myths with Gisele Bundchen’s Forever Hair Stylist Harry Josh

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast - Episode Summary Busting The Biggest Hair Myths with Gisele Bundchen’s Forever Hair Stylist Harry Josh

Hosts: Jill Dunn & Carlene Higgins
Guest: Harry Josh, Acclaimed Hair Stylist
Release Date: February 26, 2025

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In this engaging episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcome Harry Josh, the esteemed stylist behind supermodels like Gisele Bundchen. The conversation delves deep into debunking prevalent hair myths, exploring advanced hair treatments, and sharing professional styling tips. Below is a comprehensive summary of the key discussions, enriched with notable quotes and timestamps for reference.

1. Understanding Hair Care Myths

Training Your Hair to Wash Less Frequently
Carlene introduces the topic by mentioning a friend who washes her dry, thin hair daily due to oily roots. Harry responds by emphasizing a balanced approach:

"Shampoo your roots and put in a treatment out of the shower on your mid shaft ends. Bond building is key to making hair strong without overloading it with protein."
— Harry Josh (08:33)

Switching Shampoos: Fact or Fiction
The hosts explore the myth that your hair gets "used to" certain shampoos, necessitating frequent changes. Harry partially agrees, attributing the need to seasonal and styling variations:

"I change my shampoo and conditioners based on either my styling needs or the time of year. It's similar to cycling skincare products like retinol."
— Harry Josh (10:11)

2. The Role of Silicones in Hair Products

The debate around silicones in hair care products is addressed, with Harry providing a nuanced perspective:

"Silicones can manipulate hair texture effectively, but they're generally not beneficial for hair health. They can weigh hair down and cause buildup."
— Harry Josh (12:11)

He advises using silicones judiciously, likening their use to bleach:

"Is bleach good for you? No, but it makes you look great as a blonde. Similarly, silicones offer a cosmetic effect without nourishing the hair."
— Harry Josh (12:56)

3. Bond Building vs. Damage Repair

Jill and Carlene discuss the buzz around bond-building treatments, seeking clarity from Harry:

"Repetitive use of bond builders goes down to the nucleus of the hair and starts to repair it. It's not instant, but consistent use reduces breakage over time."
— Harry Josh (14:05)

Harry highlights the importance of choosing lightweight bond builders, especially for fine hair, to avoid brittleness.

4. Dry Shampoo: Hacks and Best Practices

Addressing trending hacks, Carlene mentions the use of micellar water as a dry shampoo substitute. Harry clarifies the distinctions:

"Micellar water doesn't serve the same purpose as dry shampoo. Dry shampoo envelops the hair strand, absorbs oil, and adds fullness, which micellar water cannot replicate effectively."
— Harry Josh (15:34)

Tips for Optimal Dry Shampoo Use:

1. Application Technique: Avoid spraying directly into partings to prevent powdery residue.
2. Product Selection: Choose dry shampoos with a fine mist to minimize chalkiness.
3. Timing: Apply dry shampoo before styling rather than at night for best results.

"I always use dry shampoo right before finishing a look to ensure a polished finish without visible powder."
— Harry Josh (17:33)

5. Air Drying vs. Blow Drying

Carlene brings up conflicting advice about air drying being healthier than blow drying. Harry offers his expert opinion:

"You can't definitively say one is healthier than the other. It depends on the hair type and desired outcome. For instance, Gisele's hair looks best when air-dried naturally."
— Harry Josh (21:00)

He emphasizes the importance of nourishing the hair during air drying:

"Use a leave-in serum or bond builder mousse to protect and hydrate the hair while it dries naturally."
— Harry Josh (22:11)

6. Satin vs. Silk Pillowcases

The effectiveness of satin pillowcases is debated, with Harry providing valuable insights:

"Silk pillowcases reduce friction, mitigating frizz and texture issues, especially for those prone to frizzy hair."
— Harry Josh (23:07)

He clarifies that both silk and satin serve the same purpose:

"There's no significant difference between silk and satin pillowcases. Both provide the necessary slip to protect hair during sleep."
— Harry Josh (23:34)

7. Heatless Styling Techniques

Exploring modern heatless styling trends, Harry shares his enthusiasm for various methods:

"Techniques like wrapping hair with a robe or using rollers can create beautiful waves without heat damage."
— Harry Josh (24:26)

Key Tips for Heatless Curls:

1. Hair Dampness: Hair should be damp, not soaking wet, to prevent extended drying times.
2. Use of Products: Apply light hold products like mousse or setting lotions to enhance curl formation.
3. Patience: Allow sufficient time for hair to dry fully to achieve lasting curls.

"If your hair is too wet when starting heatless styling, it won't set properly. Ensure it's damp and use appropriate products for best results."
— Harry Josh (24:22)

8. Advanced Styling: Perms and Keratin Treatments

Harry delves into the complexities of perms and keratin treatments, clarifying misconceptions:

"Perms involve a chemical altering process, similar to bleaching, which transforms hair texture permanently. They require careful consideration due to their lasting effects."
— Harry Josh (39:15)

Regarding keratin and Brazilian treatments, Harry explains their evolution:

"Kerasilk's bond-building keratin treatment is customizable, unlike earlier versions which were one-size-fits-all. This allows for flexible styling without overprocessing the hair."
— Harry Josh (35:52)

9. Hair Extensions and Toppers

The discussion shifts to hair extensions, where Harry dispels myths about their damaging nature:

"Hair extensions are not inherently bad. The key lies in proper maintenance—removing them promptly, gentle brushing, and avoiding excessive pulling."
— Harry Josh (40:43)

He recommends high-quality, fair-trade extensions for the best results:

"Working with fair-trade hair ensures ethical sourcing and better quality, which is worth the investment for long-term hair health."
— Harry Josh (43:32)

10. Behind the Scenes with Harry Josh

Towards the end, Harry shares nostalgic memories from his illustrious career, including legendary parties and high-profile clients:

"Hosting model parties in various New York venues allowed industry professionals of all levels to connect and celebrate together."
— Harry Josh (48:44)

He reflects on his journey from humble beginnings to becoming a sought-after stylist:

"From sweeping floors in New York to working with celebrities like Hillary Swank and Mary-Louise Parker, it's been an incredible journey."
— Harry Josh (47:00)

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Conclusion

This episode offers a treasure trove of expert advice and insider knowledge on hair care and styling. Harry Josh's insights help demystify common misconceptions, providing listeners with practical tips to enhance their hair health and styling routines. Whether you're battling frizz, exploring bond-building treatments, or curious about the latest heatless styling trends, this conversation equips you with the knowledge to make informed beauty choices.

Notable Quotes:

• "Repetitive use of bond builders goes down to the nucleus of the hair and starts to repair it." [14:05]
• "Silicones can manipulate hair texture effectively, but they're generally not beneficial for hair health." [12:11]
• "Hair extensions are not inherently bad. The key lies in proper maintenance." [40:43]

For a more detailed exploration of these topics, tune into the full episode on Breaking Beauty Podcast or watch it on YouTube @BreakingBeautyPodcast.

Transcript

[Harry Josh]

The following podcast is a dear media production.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hello and welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Carlene and this is Jill. Hi, Jill.

[Jill Dunn]

Hey, Carlene. And we are back on this Wednesday with another great episode episode all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. And of course, longtime listeners know that we are two former magazine beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. We've been doing this for eight years. So thank you for sticking with us. And if you're new here, welcome.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

And once upon a time, when I was a magazine editor, I would be in London or Milan right now at Fashion Week backstage covering the trends. But now I'm in my pajamas in a condo recording this from the comfort of my couch. But, you know, when think about Fashion Week and those days, they, those are fond memories. And, you know, seeing supermodels like Carly Claus backstage. Name drop, name drop. But I do often think of Harry Josh. He is a. An acclaimed hair stylist. He was really known for giving supermodels like Giselle Bunchen those iconic beach waves. He worked with all the Victoria's Secret models, and there was just a time when that was the cool girl hair, you know, And I feel like that is also very classic. Like, it's the whole French women who never blow dry their hair. So it's as relevant as ever. And I'm excited to be speaking with Harry today.

[Jill Dunn]

That's right. And he's one of the fathers of Bombshell hair, I will say, you know, just if you want to look glam and gorgeous, Harry is your guy. And he still works with a lot of those people that you just mentioned. He still works with a lot of them to this day. And Harry, he's also a fellow Canadian and he's the founder of Harry Josh Pro Tools. Many of you may know the mint green iconic blow dryer and curling iron that is often seen in hair stylist kits. And he's also a Kerasilk brand ambassador. So he's definitely a hair expert, which is why we're sitting down with him today to dispel some common hair myths that you may be inadvertently believing.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Especially if you get advice from TikTok. And it's very exciting that in about a week's time, Karas Elk is launching a new set of products that are stepping up their hair styling products. So you might know Kerasilk to be Like a hair care range is really focused on that word care. And so now they're really coming out with a little bit stronger hold for style. So they're still going to be caring but also a little maybe functional hold, I would say to these products.

[Jill Dunn]

So today Harry's going to share with us the real talk on bond building hair treatments, what's legit and what's not. Plus we talk about some hacks with dry shampoo, how he likes to use it as a professional stylist. And then we talk through dry conditioner, which actually confounds me. And I, I was not really sure if it's something that if it's a great or if it's a gimmick. And we talked to him about that as well.

[Carlene Higgins]

Also satin pillowcases, are they a sham? But. And how he gets curls to last on his celebrity clientele on the red carpet and what's what when it comes to keratin treatments and Brazilian hair treatments, I always get confused. Are these things like still around? Are they safe? What's going on? So Harry gives us the update on that and, and perms as well. We talk about perms. We all know they're back. And if you stick around till the end of the episode, you're going to hear about Harry's epic parties. He was really well known for these in New York. This is where all it was one of those model parties where the who's.

[Advertisement Host]

Who would show up.

[Carlene Higgins]

It was kind of a fixture in the New York scene. So we're going to do a bit of reminiscing together and everything that we talk about will be listed over on our website at Breaking Beauty podc. And you can watch this episode as well over on YouTube. Our handle is Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Jill Dunn]

And since this is February 26th when this episode is coming out, be sure to sign up for our monthly faves newsletter. It's coming out tomorrow and that's where we're sharing our directory musts. We're talking about our monthly favorites that were we don't have time to talk about on the podcast. And it's very much like personal beauty and style and wellness faves from yourself and myself. And a lot of people are just discovering it. So we welcome you to join us on our newsletter as well. Let's keep in touch, you know.

[Carlene Higgins]

So without further ado, here's Harry Josh.

[Advertisement Host]

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[Les]

Balanced or Thrive Trying. My name is Les and I'm the host of Balanced Black Girl, a podcast dedicated to helping you feel your best. Join me for casual conversations about what it means to live a well rounded life. I cover everything from how to make friends as an adult to how to create a workout routine that works for you, to how to practice better financial wellness. Tune in for approachable conversations with wellness thought leaders and inspiring guests, as well as intimate solo chats with me. For relatable advice. Follow wherever you get your podcasts and look out for new episodes every Tuesday.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast. Harry. Josh, it's been a long time coming.

[Harry Josh]

It has been.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

But we go way back. We were talking before we got on the mic.

[Harry Josh]

Both of you. It's been at least 10 years. At least.

[Carlene Higgins]

I know.

[Harry Josh]

Since we've known each other and it's super cool.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

As I come back every year, it's like just seeing like the Beauty editors in different positions and different change and hear you guys having a podcast. Like, it's unbelievably cool to just see how people's natural progression and where they head and what they're drawn to.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So it's really cool being in this industry for so long. I feel so lucky, Wood, that you get to see the evolution of so many people and where they end up, where their passion ends up falling.

[Carlene Higgins]

We're talking myths today. I have a friend who has very thin hair. Okay. She washes her hair every day because she says that her roots are oily, but she has very dry, thin hair with dry ends. Can you train. Is this a myth? Can you train your hair so that you can start to wash it less frequently?

[Harry Josh]

Let's say you. That friend you spoke of is my client.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

And she says to me, harry, I've got oily roots and dry ends.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And I don't want to wash my hair every day, but if I don't, my roots don't get compensated. So what do I say to this person? I say, shampoo your roots and put in a treatment out of the shower on your mid shaft ends. So like a bond building. Bond building is a big thing that's been very big for the last three years because technology has actually been able to put together damaged hair.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So you know all these bond treatments, so many, like, companies made, like these bond builders, blah, blah, blah. We have one called Kerasilk Bond Builder, and that one, ours is so lightweight that you can actually put it in every day. So for a girl with fine hair who's used, maybe a famous bond builder, they're like, it made my hair too brittle.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

Because too much bond building will actually put too much protein into the hair and make it crunchy. Too much moisture will make it soft. So it's that right amount of how do I get enough protein nutrients into the hair to really kind of make it strong and durable, but not overly proteiny to make it crispy? So the bond builder that Kerasilk has is so lightweight, you could put it in every day versus the more intense ones. You can't. But someone who's struggling with that combination scalp hair thing, I would treat the scalp one way and the mid shaft and ends another way.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

To balance it.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Carlene Higgins]

Not unlike skin care. I've been. I've done that before with my T.

[Harry Josh]

Zone versus I can only moisturize here. I cannot do this or this.

[Carlene Higgins]

You got to get clever.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. You got to be really innovative with that.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah. Know your skin type and hair type as well. Now, what about the myth that you should be switching out your shampoo and conditioner, that your hair gets used to it?

[Harry Josh]

Okay. So I'm kind of on board with this. Okay. And I'll tell you why I'm kind of on board with this, because I personally do change my shampoo and conditioners and all this stuff, but I typically change it based on either my styling needs or the time of year.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So certain times of the year, I need to up my game because it's maybe too frizzy, it's too humid outside, and my regular lightweight shampoo and conditioner is not working. You know what I mean? And even though my hair's short, when it gets bigger, it does have this layer of, like, frizz on top of it, because I have actually. When it's longer, it's wavy, So I actually have wavy hair, so I have that texture. So for me, yes and no, basically. But I do think it's important. So for me, I feel that every person in the world should have, like, when even for my skincare, I have multiple sets throughout the year for certain times of the year based on what's going on. I'm sweating a lot. I'm not sweating a lot. I'm working out like crazy. I'm not working out like crazy. That affects my routine.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And I think shampoo and conditioner is the same thing.

[Carlene Higgins]

Shampoo cycling, so to speak. I'm just throwing that out there as a name. But I do it.

[Guest]

We do it.

[Carlene Higgins]

We've talked about, like, I always use a clarifying shampoo on the weekend.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

But I wouldn't use much every day.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, but it is important to do once in a while, because if I'm using, like, a moisturizing shampoo and conditioner, I can get buildup. Same thing. If I was using, like, a purple shampoo or conditioner or whatever, I wouldn't use it every day.

[Harry Josh]

No.

[Carlene Higgins]

I mean, you know, when you need it overtoning, I might be getting too much, too little moisture. So I feel like there probably is something to it. And again, a bit like skincare, it's like, you don't need to use retinol every day to get the look, and.

[Jill Dunn]

I think you're getting different benefits.

[Harry Josh]

Right?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I would say yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

To it. Important to contagion.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. Well, we recently had a conversation with a skincare trainer, and she was talking about how silicones are back for skin care. So I still think this debate has been raging with shampoos in hair care products.

[Harry Josh]

Like, absolutely.

[Jill Dunn]

Silicone is good. Are they bad? Tell us everything.

[Harry Josh]

I think this is a very charged question because silicone can do wonders for manipulating hair texture. So whether it's good for your hair or bad for the hair, it's effective. Okay. Generally speaking, they are not good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Sulfates and, you know, and silicones really aren't ideal in terms of nourishment or anything beneficial to the health and vitality of the strand. But sulfates for sure, you could do without. I mean, I think every product we do is sulfate free. But silicone sometimes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Can be the right need for the right event or right time.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So I'm kind of like, yeah, they're not great, but I need it.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It's like someone saying, is bleach good for you?

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

No, but I'm gonna look great as a blonde.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So, yeah, it's like, that's where I'll leave that.

[Jill Dunn]

It's a cosmetic effect.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. Right.

[Jill Dunn]

You're gonna get the smoothing if you have it.

[Harry Josh]

I don't think it's going to be good for you to, like, sure have gallons of this st. But, you know, if you're looking for a product that's going to just give you the slip and the shine and isn't it about.

[Carlene Higgins]

Part of the reason people went off silicones with hair is just that it weighs it down.

[Harry Josh]

It can weigh it down. It can also clog the cuticles and create buildup.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So these are all things that you don't really want the hair. So I think that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Cycle it again. Right, Cycle it again.

[Harry Josh]

And honestly, there's not that many products anymore that are so silicone heavy. Everyone has up their games by adding natural oils. Shea oil is in our blue dry cream. So, like, there's more natural ingredients added as polymers to make things softer and more.

[Guest]

Sure.

[Jill Dunn]

I've always been a little bit unsure about when you see the word bond building, why is that different on a label than, like, damage repair? I think they've almost been used interchangeably of late. Yes, sometimes it has. Legit.

[Harry Josh]

Yes, absolutely.

[Jill Dunn]

Sometimes it's just like. Like the buzzword that's on the package. So how do you know?

[Harry Josh]

Well, you don't. And that's just it. This is the tricky. This is the wild, wild west. We're always navigating. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So the question was, like, how do you know if the damaged stuff is doing the same thing?

[Jill Dunn]

Or just in your professional opinion, do you. How big of an Advancement is like bond building technology. So it is like you, in your hands, you can tell the difference. What's bond building?

[Harry Josh]

It's not instant.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

All right, so this is not instant. This is not something you would be able to tangibly see a before and after. Quickly.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

But I will tell you, repetitive use of the bond builder will build bonds. So what it does, it goes down to the. Literally the. The nucleus of the hair and can start to repair. Now, I don't understand science.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And I wouldn't know how to break that down. All I can tell you is when they give me hair wefts. Before and after.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

10 uses or 12 uses. That's how I know what the difference is.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So, you know, I don't have the luxury of trying it 20 times on the same person and asking them to come back.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

But I do have people, I tell them, start using bond builder, especially my girls with fried broken hair.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I'm like, just start putting them here because it's weightless.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I'm like, you're not. It's not like a big thing. Like, just rub it in your palms, put it through your ends. That's it. And then when they come back six weeks, eight weeks later for their next highlight, I'm like, you have less breakage. Yeah, I notice that there's less breakage.

[Guest]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So some tick tockers have been using micellar water instead of dry shampoo. I mean, kind of more like clean the scalp as opposed to. We know dry shampoo isn't really cleaning.

[Harry Josh]

The scalp, coating the hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you know anything about this?

[Jill Dunn]

Have you tried.

[Harry Josh]

Do I do. And I don't even need to try it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I'll tell you why I don't need to try. Because they don't really serve the same purpose.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

They really don't.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

I think it's like we're always trying to reinvent the wheel with beauty. Always. What verbiage can I use? What different angle can I do to the same thing that was happening last year, but now get a fresh take on it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So I feel like a lot of the times we hear these clickbait things of this and we investigate, and theoretically it makes sense. You're like, yeah, that should probably remove some sebum or oil off the thing. But ultimately, dry shampoo, which is what they're trying to get rid of to use this, sits on the hair shaft more than the scalp.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

And it's really. That is not going to. That will do a mild cleaning. But it will not do what a dry shampoo can do.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

Which is envelop the hair strand, suck all the oil out of it, and create. Create dryness.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

And fullness.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So I don't consider that a hack.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Or a substitute.

[Guest]

Got it.

[Harry Josh]

Is it effective? Yes.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

But I still would pick my dry shampoo.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

To get that look. If that was my concern.

[Guest]

Got it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

What's your favorite dry shampoo?

[Harry Josh]

I have a bunch that I use from. I like chlorine from France. I feel like how it dispenses is a big part of why I like the chlorine.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Something about the way that dispenses. Very wide and Right. Not narrow.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And I feel like sometimes when you're doing that, you can end up looking like, you know, Marie Antoinette by the time you're like, you know. So you want a dry, powdered wig. It's a dry powdered wig. And you're really looking for this micro mist. So I quite like that the chlorine has a nice wide mist that doesn't feel extra chalky.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So that's. That's probably why I like that one.

[Carlene Higgins]

And do you have tips on how to get the best result aside from looking for one that. That sprays out widely? Because we've heard different things in the past. Some people say, oh, you're really supposed to use it at night, not in the morning, if you're trying to avoid washing your hair. And then the latest thing people are saying is to wet your hair after using dry shampoo.

[Harry Josh]

That's going to be clay. That sounds.

[Jill Dunn]

That sounds terrible.

[Harry Josh]

That sounds like a tiktoker who has no experience in the hair industry. That makes zero sense to me. The other ones do. I can understand why someone might want to do it at night. Because they're sweaters.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Maybe people sweat and they're like, I'm going to try to combat my sweat by doing this, but I still don't subscribe to that. I am a subscription to Dry shampoo Right before you're leaving to go wherever you're doing. I only use dry shampoo that way. It is my finishing product to walk that person out the door or get them to wherever they're going to. So for me, I think it's most effective and most important when it's on fresh. I always tend to lift the hair up with my. I use my pinky. I go up there, I lift up that. Another thing. Don't spray the product directly. Move it. So, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Horizontal video.

[Harry Josh]

Right. So, yeah. Yeah, some people, I see people going like that. And I'm like, you're getting white circles on your head when you release. When I go. Missed.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Grab the next section.

[Carlene Higgins]

Keep it moving.

[Harry Josh]

Mist. And then just kind of lightly with your fingertips, massage it around. I never like to do it in a parting.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Because you can see it.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So I'll go like a hairline underneath the parting. Do it there.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

And then a hairline underneath. But that actual part doesn't have the powder.

[Guest]

Got it.

[Harry Josh]

Because often you will see it. If you just go down the middle of your part and spray it, you'll see powder.

[Guest]

Okay. All right. You heard it here.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's the way to do it.

[Jill Dunn]

First Aid Beauty is one of our show partners this week. So we talk a lot about exfoliation on the show, its benefits for your skincare routine. But we don't talk about it that often in regards to how much better your makeup application can be with the right exfoliation. So I want to introduce you to First Aid Beauty's facial radiance pads. These are a game changer for making my pores appear smaller and getting rid of any little acne post inflammatory pigmentation marks that I have. And I love how convenient they are. It's just a pre dosed pad. It has glycolic acid, it has lactic acid. Gentle. For sensitive skin types like mine, swipe it on and you're glowing. And if you swipe it on before you do your makeup, I just find you have to use less foundation. Your application is smoother and your skin just looks glowier and better. So I think you're going to love them. So see the difference? First Aid Beauties facial radiance pads can make for your complexion. We know that you'll love them as much as we do. And right now we have a special offer just for our listeners. Get 20% off when you visit our exclusive URL first aid beauty.com beauty and use our promo code beauty. That's first aid beauty.com beauty don't wait. Get 20% off with promo code beauty@firstaid beauty.com beauty that's first aid beauty.com beauty we'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, well, here's a classic question. I had thought for a long time that air drying was healthier for your hair than blow drying. But recently I've been hearing that air drying is actually not that healthy for your hair. The moisture staying in your hair is supposed to Be you want to get the moisture out is what I've heard, as fast as possible.

[Harry Josh]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

So what?

[Harry Josh]

I don't believe that.

[Carlene Higgins]

You don't.

[Harry Josh]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

You tell me what's healthier, air drying or blow drying?

[Harry Josh]

I don't think you can say either of that.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

And I'll tell you why.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So when it comes to air drying, some hair just looks better air dried.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Honestly, like.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Great example. Giselle.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Her hair does not look good. If you diffuse it or try to dry it or do anything to it, it loses what it's naturally designed to do.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So if I'm going to wave it or do anything, I'll always say to her, or she just knows.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I'm going to wash my hair, let it totally dry naturally before I even walk into the studio.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So I. I'm working off of the most natural air dried shape.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

To give her the most natural finish.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So I'm working with so many elements of her natural hair that I'm just tweaking certain pieces to kind of make it look lived in. But it's all the same natural looking hair. It doesn't look like a curling iron has passed through every single section.

[Guest]

Got it.

[Harry Josh]

To create that look. So that's my theory on why air dried hair does make a difference for a lot of people, why they should not be putting heat to it. But those air dried people do need to nourish their hair. So I'm definitely going to say to them, you need to put in, you know, a leave in a serum bond builder mousse, blow dry cream. Like something.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That coats the hair so that it's getting nourishment at the same time while it's air drying.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It's not air drying willy nilly. There is like some intention behind that. I'm going to say that again. Here we are, 2025. There's a billion heat protectants.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

From every single line that when you blow dry your hair, it's not being damaged. Right. I can guarantee you using my dryer and a good heat protectant spray, half of Kerasilka's heat protectant hairspray we just talked about, like that is enough.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

To protect your hair. Damage comes from expanding your hair shaft with like bleach, perm, lye, these kind of things that really change the molecular system of the hair.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

This is not putting extension over and.

[Jill Dunn]

Over and over again. Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I don't believe that you, you know, the heating, cooling. But that's just my opinion.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what do you make of satin pillowcases? Are they worth the money or are they a money grab?

[Harry Josh]

No, they're worth it.

[Guest]

Really?

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. If you're someone who tends to frizz, the friction that is on your cotton or your linen, especially in winter months, can reate. Create lots of unwanted frizz and texture.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So a silk pillowcase will absolutely help mitigate the friction.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That so many times we have when you blow out your hair or wave your hair or whatever, it just gets like more crazy. So I actually think that's worth it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Silk versus satin. Silk better.

[Harry Josh]

No, no difference.

[Jill Dunn]

Really?

[Harry Josh]

No different. No difference.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Because you just want slip.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I mean, you could sleep on a plastic one if it was comfortable. I mean, like if you just want the slip.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Got no tension.

[Guest]

Got it.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. And heatless styling. It's everywhere. I saw a girl take a tie from her robe and that is how she's doing her heatless curls now.

[Harry Josh]

Like wrapping it around.

[Jill Dunn]

It's wrapping around it. Honestly, it looks great.

[Harry Josh]

I've also seen those giant like banana straw things. I see. Saw some girl on the plane. Literally had like a long thing like this.

[Guest]

Oh my God.

[Harry Josh]

And her hair was wrapped in the mid flight. She just took it off and it was like totally wavy. But there's lots of interesting things. But I'm all for it. Yeah, I'm all for it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Now what's the secret? Is your hair, does it have to become perfectly dry or. Because I feel like, no, my daughter's tried this and maybe her hair was too wet and it just didn't work.

[Harry Josh]

Too wet. If it too wet is better than too dry.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Providing you have the patience to let it dry fully.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Because if you do it too wet, put it in and you're like an hour before it's ready. Like, I have to go, I'm going to be late. Nothing happens. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

So if you're doing it overnight, how dry should your hair be? And damp. Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Damp. Damp with product, with product. Yeah, Damp with some kind of setting. Product.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Whatever that work.

[Jill Dunn]

Whatever that is for you.

[Harry Josh]

A moose. Yeah. It could be a mousse. It could be like a cream. Something that's basically going to give it light hold.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Well, if you. If your hair tends to drop a hold, then go up with product, like do a strong holding mousse. But if you're here, you're just looking to change the shape.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Then you don't need a lot of product. Just a nice setting lotion would be great.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

All right, I love that idea for. For the summer. Now let's talk about curling irons. Something you know a lot about.

[Harry Josh]

I do.

[Jill Dunn]

How do you get curls to last on your celebrity clients? Like, are you doing a lot of red carpet right now? Like, what's the feel? What's the vibe?

[Harry Josh]

So to get first, let's answer the first question. Well, actually, it's a combo commercial. I am doing less curling iron work and doing more blowouts because everyone's kind of feeling this 90s blowout vibe. Everyone's kind of done with the waves. So that's that question. How to get those waves to stay is a really good tip for everybody. If you are someone who constantly struggles with their curls dropping by the time it's. They're just about putting on their lipstick and going out, you're like, I just finished my hair. It's already falling. You're using the wrong size iron. You need to go way smaller. Even if you're like, no, I don't want tight curls. I want them big. That means your hair has no capacity to hold that tightness. So if you go tighter. So even if you're looking in the mirror being like, this is too tight, know that your hair is going to drop by the time you go into what you want it to be. So that's a really great tip, is to use one eye, one size smaller to make sure it lasts throughout the entire day. Another thing is to make sure that your hair is coated with hairspray every section.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

A lot of people do products, but don't think of the mechanics behind it. So I'll see someone be like, great TikTok video. I saw this girl going like this. Just hairspray everywhere. Brushes it all out, Starts doing whatever she's doing. She's curling. Not realizing that these midsections never got product right. Her whole outer layer got product. And it was a hair makeup combo to it. So she started with the hair, she did that, she waved all that. She put it up and started doing her makeup. And I knew from watching that midsection did not hold. And of course, when she was done the look and she tried to do something with it, it didn't matter because she didn't care. But I knew. I'm like, that whole midsection didn't get any curls because you didn't even spray it. So the top and the bottom got it, and the rest was straight underneath. So it's really applying a product is twofold. One, do we have the right product? And are you applying it correctly?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And I think those are two things that can take your crappy waves to incredible all night waves.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

What about. Are people still applying their. Their hairspray before they're curling it? Or either or during.

[Harry Josh]

Either or are ending. So beginning, ending or middle.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

All work.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Here are the reasons why you can think about it the way you want to think about. Some people feel like they will do best going section by section because they don't want to miss a piece of spray.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And they don't know how to get the spray even everywhere. So like they're like. For me, they're like, I'd rather just spray each section and then wrap my iron. So I know that I got the product from root to tip evenly. So that's that person. The other person is someone who knows their hair is already kind of wavy. And like yours, it holds. You don't need a lot of product. You're. It's already wavy underneath. You know, it's just going to hold quickly. And so for them it's a finishing thing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

For a professional or someone who's really good, we like to coat the whole head with hairspray all throughout every section. Brush it all out so it's. You're done. You put the hairspray down.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And now I'm based on just curling.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

And then I also don't have to hear the lovely sound of a crackle.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Like of the wet hairspray crackling on the iron. Even heat protect. I just. That always feels awful.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

To hear like. Yeah. So there are all of them work. There's just different reasons why people might approach it differently.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. And it's not bad for your hair to put the hairspray in first.

[Harry Josh]

No.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Your hair has to be dry.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Hairspray is not effective on damp hair.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It needs to be bone dry for the hairspray to do anything.

[Guest]

Right. Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

And what about curling your hair? Is there. What are we. What are we feeling like? What's the new way to do it? What are you inspired by right now?

[Harry Josh]

Sabrina Carpenter.

[Jill Dunn]

Love.

[Harry Josh]

You know, it's very kind of like a dated look, but it's so fresh compared to every other wave that's out there.

[Guest]

That's right.

[Harry Josh]

Because she's closing her ends. What we've been teaching everyone for two years is keep your ends straight. She's the exact opposite.

[Guest]

Right, Right.

[Harry Josh]

It's all curled in. It's all loopy. So all of a sudden she looks fresh.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Even Though I did that the other day. I couldn't believe how bouncy my hair was.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

When you just make that smidge of a change and you put the. You go for it.

[Harry Josh]

Definitely. So I think that's the difference with the iron is like, we're no longer going for the raw natural. We're going for bouncy waves now.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Harry Josh]

So we're actually bringing out the clamp again instead of the wand clamping the end and rolling it up.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And holding. 80s.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, 80s.

[Harry Josh]

Where you rolled it up and you held it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I mean.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And you just kind of held everything up. So it's curled and you just brush it and then you have, like these loopy waves.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And that ties into the curling iron also to the 90s blow dry. You know, we're getting a lot of girls wanting that big, bodacious blow dry that's kind of wavy and, like, has the ends in movement. So. So I think this is all makes sense for, like, what are. Where are we headed?

[Guest]

Right. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

What's your. What's your number one tip for that? Getting that look.

[Harry Josh]

Rollers are great. I think people who struggle with doing a professional blow dry. Velcro rollers would be a lot easier for you to get that look if you've got the patience.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

To, you know, stay at home that night. Damp hair like we talked about, put them in, watch tv, have dinner, be on your phone, and then right before you go to bed, take them out.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So if they could sit for an hour or two, what that does is it creates a natural lift that's very difficult to get on your own with a blow dryer. A professional could do it. Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

But it's hard to get those angles of the fullness you're looking for to get the big hair.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So the rollers are kind of like the effortless way to have that. And as long as you get the patience at night time, it's effective.

[Jill Dunn]

Nuuly is one of our show partners this week. I'm a Gemini. That means I get bored easily, which is why I love the idea of Nuuly. So Nuuly is a subscription clothing rental service, and for just 98amonth, you get your choice of any six styles each month. And you have access to thousands of styles from more than 400 brands. Brands like Madewell, a Goldie Hill House, and they have inclusive sizing up to 5x, as well as petite and maternity, plus fast free shipping and returns and professional cleaning. Everyone in Nuuly's state of the art laundering facility. So there's no laundry for you to worry about. Plus you get the option to buy what you love at a discount. And I appreciate that. Nuuly has really given you so many wardrobe options and you can try new styles and trends without committing to them. And you can skip that fast fashion ick that sometimes we can get. And there's savings, too. Renting from Nuuly means you get to wear more while spending less. And it's flexible. There are no late fees, there's no damage fees, and there's no fees to pause or cancel. So it's no big deal if you lose a button or spill something or just want to take a break. So, great news. We have a special offer just for breaking beauty listeners. Nuuly is a great value at 98amonth for any six styles. But right now you can get 28 off your first month of Nuuly. When you sign up with Code Beauty, just go to n U-U-L-Y.com, that's Nuuly with two U's and enter the code Beauty and sign up to get 28 off your first month. That's Nuuly.com spelled N u u l y.com again newly with two U's and use code Beauty newly subscription clothing rental. Change your clothes. We'll link to the software in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

There's definitely been in the past decade, like, people are embracing more their hair texture, but there's still a hu. Real world desire for like keratin treatments and Brazilian huge blowouts.

[Harry Josh]

Huge.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, all that. That is big business still. And I'm still confused about the difference between them. Did one of them get banned? Like, where are we at?

[Harry Josh]

So I will piece together the best information that I can based on everything that I've heard. Because you really don't know unless you're like actually talking to the brand themselves. So the first thing that came out in the 90s was the Japanese.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Harry Josh]

The Japanese straightener.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That had come to America with a vengeance. Every girl wanted flat iron 90s supermodel hair. And so everyone started doing it and everybody loved it for the first four months.

[Carlene Higgins]

And that was a professional treatment.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. Yeah. All of these are.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

There is no. At home.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

If they say that this is doing this to your home, it is not.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Guest]

Got it.

[Harry Josh]

And if it's doing it, it's doing it on such a minuscule level.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That it's almost not Even needed.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Okay. So any kind of at home, like. Like permanent treatment.

[Carlene Higgins]

Brazilian, whatever.

[Guest]

Okay, Got it.

[Harry Josh]

It's a defroster at best.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

At best.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

But basically that came into the. The gates first. Everyone started doing that. And the problem with that is these are the problems that came out of that. People felt their hair got really greasy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

And it was a one trick pony. If they wanted to wave it, it never held. If they wanted body. Not a chance. It was never gonna do it. It was permanently one trick pony.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Always silky, always satin, always flat. That.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

And then the regrowth wasn't graceful.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

Because it was so transformational to the texture.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That you're. You could have like curly hair and then still.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Straight ends.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So it's like the opposite of a perm.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. Like literally the opposite. So that kind of. That hype got built and then died and went away. Then come the Brazilian keratins, which promised they would do that, but it would wash out.

[Jill Dunn]

Out.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

That it would not grow out. You'd able to wash it out.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

So then people started doing that. Then what ended up happening is a multitude of things. People were getting sick. People were saying there was formaldehyde or something in the. The hair. I don't know all the stories, but these are the things that I heard here. Other salon members were getting sick. The treatments being in the salon, they weren't ventilated enough. So basically those. And then at the time, there was multiple companies coming out.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

With their versions of this stuff. Because once the technology is out, you can do your version.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

You're like, okay, it's out now let's figure out how we're gonna bring it to the table.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And I have a great ending to this whole story. The Holy Grail.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Stand by for it. So then basically, what ended up happening with these girls who were doing the Brazilian. They ended up changing the formaldehyde. Got rid of that. But then what ended up happening was still the greasy factor. And so many girls wanted control over how much of their texture would change because basically it would just take it from one texture to another. There was no. Too extreme.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So that was really what was happening. So Kerasilk.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Makes this lovely return here. Kerasilk makes a keratin treatment that is absolutely customizable. And I'm gonna give everyone the greatest analogy ever. This might be the sound bite.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Imagine. I want everyone to imagine three triplets with curly hair to their. Let's say to their shoulders.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Every One of these triplets have identical hair from birth, but they all wear their hair totally different. The first girl loves her curl curls, would never put heat to it at all. She just doesn't like the halo of frizz that's on it. The second girl is a beachy wave girl. She loves her curls, but they're too tight. She likes to stretch it out and then put a big beachy wave into it. The third sister can't stand any texture and wants it pancake flat at all times. This one product can be modified to give each one of these girls a customizable look based on how the operator presses the flat iron, how much heat they're using, whether they're going over the section 20 times or one time or only with a round brush to just lightly put the product in. So to curate your experience for your client based on turn the dial down. 20, 40, 100%.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Doesn't exist.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So this is the holy grail.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And you have to be sure that it's the carousel keratin treatment. Because I've had clients from Instagram say, I went and got the carrot, the A keratin, and it did not do what you said. Yeah, I said, can you ask them if it was Kerasilk? And they're like, it was not.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I'm like, do you know who I work for?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I told you it has to be the carousel.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Because there's no one on the market that allows you that flexibility. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

I have a question about perms. We were talking about this off the mic, so we know all the Gen Z boys are getting, you know, herms.

[Guest]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

The broccoli top, all that kind of thing. I feel like for women, like, you know how Nicole Kidman's whole getty images just went viral? Like, everybody's gawking over images of her from way back in, like the 90s and the 2000s. And the curls. I feel like women are gonna start getting perms.

[Harry Josh]

I think. I think they would need to.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I'll tell you why. Because the girls with curly hair don't wear their hair curly.

[Jill Dunn]

No, I know.

[Harry Josh]

So the elasticity is totally screwed.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Like, you see a teenage girl with curly hair, you're like, that's so cute.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

You see a 40 year old woman with that same curl. It's half curly, straight. It's been flat ironed, it's been bleached, it's been highlighted.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So in order for them to get those curls back, they'd have to do it once where like it just reset everything.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

And then they could grow it out.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And I will say living upstate has been so cool to see curls.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I see so much curls. I kind of like we forget.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And the world that curly hair is thing.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Because so many people with curls don't wear them in your world.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like in New York, celebrities you don't even know.

[Harry Josh]

Julia Gar is the only celebrity who rocks her curls. Love it like, you know what I mean? Like, she constantly red carpet. Doesn't matter. She. I'm a curly girl.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And it looks so beautiful and frustrating.

[Carlene Higgins]

I know.

[Harry Josh]

I think it's like, it's to me, I would love it back.

[Carlene Higgins]

I love myself. I'm like, do I need a perm? Maybe I'd love this.

[Harry Josh]

Like, like it's super amazing.

[Carlene Higgins]

Somehow it's big.

[Harry Josh]

It's powerful. It's like owning your inner chakra. Khan.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Having all this mound of hair on me.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I am super proud of is now.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That same woman. You color and highlight your hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

I know, right?

[Harry Josh]

So it's like, it's like one or the other.

[Jill Dunn]

Just like.

[Harry Josh]

Okay, it's one or the other. Am I perming?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Color.

[Carlene Higgins]

I know.

[Harry Josh]

You know?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

I mean a perm is a perm. It's a permanent situation. Like, I will never say any of these things are like good for your hair.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It's like me saying bleach is great for your hair. It's like you can make it not look fried. You can, you know, put in stuff to make it look silky in your olaplex or whatever. Yeah. It won't look fried. But you know, ultimately it's still a process.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It's still some kind of chemical altering hair transformational process.

[Carlene Higgins]

Now I people are googling this, so I'm just going to ask for them. Are hair extensions bad for your hair?

[Harry Josh]

Interesting question. They're not bad for your hair. How you deal with them in your head is a big portion of success.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

So there's a multitude of hair extensions. You can get permanent single bonds. You can get a sewn in weft. You can get just clips that are removable every day. You can get tapes that are sandwiched together to hold the hair. So there's such a myriad of versions of hair extensions, some claiming to be less or better. I can tell you the clip on is the least damaging because it's only on your hair for a couple hours and then you take it out and then you go back to your real life.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

The problem is most people are not really using clip ons. They want to wake up every day, get out of the shower, get out of the swimming pool, and have the hair in their head for sure. So if you are that woman and you just feel like you just don't feel great without them, which I totally can understand. So many people just look way better with some extra hair. So I get that it's really important for you to make sure you're doing everything to maintain the health of your hair.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

You're not leaving them in too long, you're taking them in and out. When you're, you're brushing them carefully. You know, whenever you have product in them, you're not, you know, pulling on them too much or like all those are the things that really make or break whether hair extensions are bad for you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

It's that care.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Yourself.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Like, am I gonna care for this? Or I'm just gonna put a bunch of $10,000 worth of hair in my hair and just like not care. It's like matted, it's tangled. You don't wash it. You put it up. You don't brush the tangles out.

[Jill Dunn]

I think about the mattress, your hair. I'm so.

[Harry Josh]

That's gonna rip out your hair.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. I. I can't even believe people are so committed to that. I mean, my hat is off just seems so. It's just such a commitment.

[Harry Josh]

It is such a commitment, but it's such a game changer. I know, I know what a game changer that is to make someone feel good.

[Jill Dunn]

Confidence.

[Harry Josh]

The confidence is really big when it comes to hair in general.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It's a really big confidence thing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Do you have any recommendations of, like, toppers? I know a lot of women who are maybe going through menopause and they have like.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And they're just like, I'm. I'm doing this.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

It's like game changer.

[Harry Josh]

Highly recommend those over extensions.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

What are we talking about?

[Harry Josh]

A topper is basically like a wig where they cut off the sides in the back.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

So it's, in a way it's a half wig or a quarter wig. So basically you have your fine hair here on the side. Cuts and colors to match your head. It gets snapped in.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, interesting.

[Harry Josh]

Top of the back and it sits on the top of your fine hair to give you more density.

[Guest]

Oh, okay.

[Harry Josh]

Cuz no matter how much density you put here with extensions, the hair still looks fine up here. And the topper eliminates that because it gives you a New hairline.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Harry Josh]

You know, by snapping in this piece that looks realistic and colored and matched, so.

[Carlene Higgins]

Which is. Tends to be where we're thinning.

[Harry Josh]

Yes, obviously.

[Jill Dunn]

So I did want to ask you what's a brand of toppers or these types of hair pieces because there's so many hair extensions out there.

[Harry Josh]

There is. You know, hair extensions are like sports cars.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

They all work. You can get $101 and a $10,000 one. Right, right. So that's going to really, you're going to say, what's a good one? I unfortunately have very good taste, so I'm going to always lean towards the ones that I work with, which are thousands of dollars because the hair is truly matching the client's hair. They've, they've vetted, they found. Like I work with a woman named Mariah Dearman who is a wig specialist and I worked with her for years and she goes out of her way to do fair trade hair. So hair extensions is big business. And a lot of non fair trade hair extensions are happening where young people, poor people in parts of Asia, India are getting pennies for shaving their head and not realizing they're being sold for thousands in America.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So she's particularly makes good deals.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So she goes to places like we're going to give you fair wages for your hair.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So she's kind of been the first person that I met that's kind of fair trade hair extension person. So when it comes to sourcing, that's what also affects cost of the hair. So. So if you're a fine haired girl, getting thick Indian hair or thick Asian hair may not be the best topper for you.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

You need to find hair similar to yours that costs more.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

Because now you're going to like an Eastern European country, someone who might have finer hair and is willing to sell it, you know what I mean? You know, and there are people willing to sell that, you know what I mean? But she's going to go out and source that for you. But that costs money.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It's not from a factory.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

So what I'm getting at is could I recommend anyone? I can't recommend one person, but I know they exist, you know what I mean? And it's really just finding someone in your price point that offers this. Obviously the more you pay, the better quality piece you're going to get. And when it comes to stomaching a cost of something like that where people are like, I can't spend that on that, what I would say to that person is. Think of the expensive things you've purchased in your Life. An iPhone's 1200, $1500. Normally in three years, you're probably going to get rid of it and get another one. So if Your hairpiece is $3,000 and it seems a lot for you to swallow, you will have that for 10 years.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

If you take care of it. And here's a great example of not a topper, but a full wig.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So arena shake for the Golden Globes and Oscars. Three years ago. Four years ago, I gave her this bob that everyone thought she cut her hair. Hair.

[Guest]

And we went, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Harry Josh]

We're like, yeah, yeah, she got her hair. She didn't. It was. But that customized wig, when you now you have to go back and look at the videos that I posted, you're like, holy Moses.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That looks so legit, it's not even funny.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

That's a really customized three fittings, you know, piece with the perfect hair texture that matches identical. And those pieces will run you 10,000.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I love the behind the scenes, you.

[Harry Josh]

Know, like, that will run you a lot of money. Money. But if you saw the impact of what that looked like, you're just like, oh, if I had the money, I would do that, because that was so real.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, well, we can't let you go without getting a couple of hacks. And we know that you are so great on set. You and I worked together on a.

[Harry Josh]

Photo shoot for probably one of our favorite stories ever.

[Jill Dunn]

We have to dig up the photos.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah, certainly. Like, just a little pan through those pictures. It was so fun. I mean, this was like. I honestly think it was more than 10 years ago. It probably was like, I think like, 15, 14.

[Guest]

Yeah, could be.

[Harry Josh]

But anyways, it was just so cool to. They gave me carte blanche. Like, whatever you want to do. I picked five different girls. Five different looks.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

On each of them in big variety, like Asian hair, long hair, curly hair, big. Like, it's just super, super cool for me to do. And it was with my team. My friends hung. Van Gogh was doing makeup for me. Max is a good friend. All Canadian. You like? It just felt super cool to do that here.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Harry Josh]

In my home turf.

[Guest]

I know.

[Harry Josh]

And to be recognized like that.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Harry Josh]

You know, like, like, it's just. It's rare that in these days because of so much content and social media that people get profile pieces.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's true.

[Harry Josh]

They don't get them anymore.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So I feel so lucky that I was covered in, like, Vogue and Bizarre and Elle and Flair and like.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Harry Josh]

Full. Full pieces.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I. I still remember getting your backstory. I interviewed you for that as well, and hearing your story about not having any money, moving to New York.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. Sweeping.

[Carlene Higgins]

Sweeping floors.

[Harry Josh]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then I think you had models. I can't remember which one, coming to your apartment, and you were cutting hair in your kitchen.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. And that's how eventually.

[Carlene Higgins]

Who was the first model? Do you remember?

[Harry Josh]

I didn't have a model. My first person. That was high profile. I had two in one week.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

Hillary Swank.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And Mary Louise Park Parker.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

And Hillary I knew through her, Rob Lowe. Oddly enough, because Roblo used to be married. Roblo's brother used to be married Hillary.

[Guest]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's our 25 years long.

[Harry Josh]

That's how long I've known these girls.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And she gave me a chance. So Hillary was going to an event, and she asked me to do her.

[Guest]

Hair, and I was like, God, yeah.

[Harry Josh]

So exciting. So she was probably one of the first people I did for, like, an event.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And then the models were coming. Giselle, Carolina Kakova. Shalom. Like, just hanging out of my house, doing hair and all that kind of stuff. And that eventually got to the beauty director. Vogue.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And that's how it kind of happened. Once she heard out about it, she's like, who is this guy? And how do I not know him?

[Carlene Higgins]

And then your parties were, like, legendary. Your supermodel parties.

[Harry Josh]

Yeah. And I did that for 13 years.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Harry Josh]

And it was really 2019. Yeah, 2019 or 2018 was the last one.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Harry Josh]

And after the pandemic, like, they had, like, pandemic. Nothing happened. 2020. 2021. But they did say, can you bring it back? Like, the hotels are like, we would love to. Like, we need to bring New York back. We need to bring the party back. We need to.

[Guest]

Where.

[Carlene Higgins]

Where was it happening?

[Harry Josh]

Was it different places? The last few were at the. The Addition Hotel in Times Square.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

And they'd been all over the. The whole city. They were in, like, Hero, the Hudson Hotel, Ian Trigger Hotel, Gramercy Park Hotel. You know, like all over town, big venues, dance places, you know, closing them down. And really, that was just a. Originally, that concept was. A friend of mine named Amber started it thinking she wanted privacy for us to be able to dance somewhere and not have onlookers.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

And that's kind of how it started. It got bigger then by, like, the third or fourth year, she like, you know, you want to help put this together? So. And then I just basically stole it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

You know what I mean? Because she's like, this has turned into a beast and you can have it, you know, like, so then it turned into like, like hundreds of people and venues and all this kind of stuff. And really it was just a way for us industry. I wanted to level the. The playing field for the industry. That's why this party was successful. You saw assistants and interns dancing with a list celebrities.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

Because they never get access.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

But they're integral parts to my life.

[Guest]

Right.

[Harry Josh]

You know what I mean? The people, like, I want everyone to be like, we are all good people. No one is is, you know, going to make anyone's night miserable.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

By being them being there. Like, I want to celebrate every one of you. You know what I mean?

[Carlene Higgins]

Who's the best dancer of all the.

[Guest]

Years of your party?

[Harry Josh]

Oh, best is different.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

Who had the most fun is Gazelle. Yeah, she loves to dance. We love to dance.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

The two of us really love to dance and we were always kind of the first people on the dance floor.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

You know, it's like that school dance. You're like, I'm just a little nervous.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Harry Josh]

It's a cheek grab magic. I don't care. Yeah, let's go. And then within in two seconds.

[Jill Dunn]

Brilliant.

[Harry Josh]

The whole floor is full. Because if she can dance, we can dance. You know, like, it just made it so fun and so beautiful and light.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, thank you so much for your time today. We really had fun catching up with you, getting to know you again.

[Harry Josh]

Yes. After all these years, it's super cool.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog @breaking beauty podcast.com.

[Jill Dunn]

While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a.

[Carlene Higgins]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

See you.

[Jill Dunn]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services, individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.