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Breaking Beauty Podcast
Carlene Introduces Her New Skincare Brand, Cassatt Beauty, With “La Pommade” Retinoid Ointment – Inspired By a Beauty Editor Cult Fave
00:42:37
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- [00:01]
Pia Barangini
The following podcast is a Dear media production.
- [00:08]
Carlene Higgins
Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.
- [00:14]
Jill Dunn
We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. It's another great Wednesday, and I'm here in Carlene's living room. This is Jill speaking, by the way. How are you, Carlene?
- [00:30]
Carlene Higgins
I'm great. I'm excited and funny. I'm a little nervous today. I'm on the. I feel like I'm on. I'm on the hot seat.
- [00:36]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, you are. Well, first of all, we are two beauty editors turned beauty podcasters and we've been doing our show for eight years now. I believe the very first test run we ever did was actually in your basement here in your house.
- [00:48]
Carlene Higgins
Oh, my God.
- [00:49]
Jill Dunn
So this is like a full circle moment and today is a very exciting day because we're going to be talking about something that's hashtag damn good.
- [00:56]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [00:56]
Jill Dunn
And it's straight from your brain. Your brain and your creative input. And I'm proud of you. And this is amazing.
- [01:05]
Carlene Higgins
Thank you so much.
- [01:06]
Jill Dunn
So we're not going to keep people in the dark too long, but Carlene is today introducing her very own beauty brand, which I just have to say, massive congratulations. It's a huge undertaking. I've had bits and pieces of the behind the scenes. So you should be really proud that you're bringing this to life because it is really hard to do.
- [01:28]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [01:28]
Jill Dunn
And it's been a labor of love, I would say, and I'm excited that everyone gets to hear about it today. So Cassette Beauty. Tell me about that. What is. How did you land on the name? Because I know there was like naming.
- [01:42]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [01:43]
Jill Dunn
Kind of drums. It's a hard thing to do, is to find a name that doesn't exist. So tell us about that.
- [01:48]
Carlene Higgins
Well, Cassatt Beauty is really what it is to start. There is. It's a modern, cool skincare line for women over 40 and, you know, designed, created and imagined by a beauty editor of over 20 years. And so it's really editing the best of everything I've ever learned. All of the products that I consider to be the icons. Building on those to edit down the very best skin care for women people, frankly, in my age group, for my peers, I really wanted to create something for people like me because I think all my career I've been kind, kind of trying to service everybody. And I was like, I want to do something really authentic that is for. For my peeps that I understand it's for You. It's for me, it's for our friends. So that's what it's all about. So Cassette Beauty, the name, it's classical, it's a classic. Reinvented is really the whole branding of it. And where that name comes from.
- [02:52]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [02:53]
Carlene Higgins
And there is an artist. This is not a direct correlation, but Mary Cassatt and she painted women in their environment, in their home, in what is now considered their place of labor. And so it was all about the female gaze. And I just love that, because as you get older and you get to this mature phase, it's about wanting to support, like, our peers and. And being more collaborative versus competitive, and it's a great place to be. And I feel like Cassatt really embodies that and seeing the beauty in others and in ourselves.
- [03:33]
Jill Dunn
So the niche that you are serving, because when we first talked about this on the mic, you just felt like Gen X ladies were not being spoken to or catered to at all.
- [03:45]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [03:45]
Jill Dunn
Talk about that in spo and, like, how that's kind of like you had this idea, I believe, in early 2024 and from when you had the idea to now where we are with the whole movement, because I think we are seeing people absolutely. Paying attention to Gen X.
- [04:01]
Carlene Higgins
Absolutely. I think there's a lot more in the makeup space, in my opinion, that has started to cater to this group and less in the skincare space. You know, it's people who are either makeup artists themselves, like Gucci, Westman, Bobby Brown, even Sarah Creel, coming from makeup development at Estee Lauder. So I still really feel like there is a space to have these cool, modern esthetics for the realm of skin care.
- [04:33]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [04:34]
Carlene Higgins
For women of this age group. So I still feel strongly that this is a. A new niche that's being addressed.
- [04:41]
Jill Dunn
Right. Do you have a tagline yet? See the beauty.
- [04:44]
Carlene Higgins
See the beauty tagline. And it's all about seeing the beauty in others and our peers, but also in ourselves. I think it's so important at this age, as somebody, myself, having gone through. Actually, I'm still in the process of going through perimenopause.
- [04:59]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [05:00]
Carlene Higgins
And I've been hit with every kind of cliche in the book in the past few years. I have the menno belly, I have the rosacea, which is from inflammation, you know, the joint pain. All of the things that we're all going to be hit with at one point or another. So.
- [05:18]
Jill Dunn
Yeah. So see the beauty and. Oh, sorry, let me finish my thought. I got lost.
- [05:23]
Carlene Higgins
Sorry.
- [05:24]
Jill Dunn
And brain fog and brain.
- [05:29]
Carlene Higgins
Exactly. And so what happens when you're in that place is that it's really easy, and I'm speaking for myself, to look in the mirror and feel like you're not yourself. Like, I feel like I have aged 10 years in the past two years in terms of my appearance. And that's really hard on the self esteem. Very hard. And of course, you're inundated with all of these images if you're on social media and in Hollywood and everything where it's, it really does do a number on your self esteem. So that's why the tagline is see the beauty. Because we have to remember, consciously remind ourselves to see the beauty in ourselves. And I'll look back now, you know, five years ago, even when I was feeling self conscious and I'm like, God, I wish I looked like that now.
- [06:20]
Jill Dunn
Right?
- [06:21]
Carlene Higgins
Like, look. Oh, look at my figure, look at my face. If I had seen the beauty in myself at that time, you have to stop and be like, no, there's something really beautiful when I look in the mirror. And obviously a lot of that is inside. And I think that's the other thing that I really wanted to convey with this brand and hit on with the community is that I also feel like when we get to this age, we're a role. We're a mom, we're a, A boss lady, we're an old lady, we're a caretaker, we're the sandwich generation. We are all of these things, but we're actually just regular people and we know it as peers with each other. Right. It's like, I respect you. I see you, I know what you're about. You're a friend. And with my friends too. And it's like that's what nobody really sees. It's a cliche. Like when you see, you know, even ads to this day, it's like they're. I feel like people are kind of dressed up like they're going to work or. You know what I mean? It's like we're just people. And, and when I see my friends now that I've grown up with for 30 years, I still see that young.
- [07:32]
Jill Dunn
You see the beauty.
- [07:33]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, I, I still see that young chick that we used to go to after hours on Saturday night and dancing and like, that's who I see when we get together. But nobody else sees that. So that's what this brand is about. From an emotional.
- [07:50]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [07:51]
Carlene Higgins
Level. And how I want to connect.
- [07:57]
Jill Dunn
Save me.
- [08:07]
Carlene Higgins
Today's episode is brought to you in part by Mara. You guys know that I'm lazy slash busy and I will admit that sometimes when I'm not wearing makeup I will skip washing my face. But I'm really trying to get a handle on that and turn things around because I do wear sunscreen every day and that has to be washed off or it's more likely to give you acne. It's given me little white heads or postules if I don't wash it off. So I want to tell you about Mara's best selling award winning algae enzyme cleansing oil. It's really the only way to wash your face and let me tell you why. It's a cleansing oil that removes every trace of the day. So we're talking longwear makeup if you're a long wear makeup wearer. Also sunscreen in just one step. But it's a multitasker which is perfect for lazy slash busy people like me. It's powered by fruit enzymes like pineapple and pumpkin to gently exfoliate your skin. At the same time, it is gentle. You can use it in the eye area, but it's also like tough on makeup and grime, which is great. And because it's an oil, I find that it leaves my skin feeling super hydrated after. So it's clean but it's not like dry or stripped afterwards because it is a cleansing oil. Now I use it on damp skin. Apparently it's so multi use you can use it on dry skin as well. Those exfoliating like pumpkin enzymes are going to work as a light peel. I haven't tried that, but I mean, that sounds fun. Lazy slash busy people, listen up. You need to check out Mara's facial oil. So it's the perfect time to pick up the Mara cleansing oil and anything else you might need. Head into your local Sephora to shop Mara or head to sephora.com and don't forget to wash your face.
- [09:50]
Pia Barangini
Hi, I'm Pia Barangini, the creative director of lpa. An entrepreneur, a wife and a dog mom based in Los Angeles. This is my new podcast, Everything is the Best where we basically ask interesting people, how did you go from zero to yacht? I'm always curious how the hell people became successful and I figured you would be too. Get on the Internet with me. Let's laugh, let's cry, let's overshare and let's get inspired to live our best lives. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. It's all for you, baby. Thanks for listening. Love you mean it.
- [10:29]
Jill Dunn
I think it's very obvious when you talk about it how passionate you Are. Yeah. And how you had said, I think when we first talked about it on the mic that your friends had said to you, this is just in you. Like, it has to come out. What is it that like compelled you? Because we know and you've written a substack about it. Does the world need another beauty brand?
- [10:45]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [10:46]
Jill Dunn
Why does this need to be?
- [10:47]
Carlene Higgins
I would say there's two reasons. One reason is that, as you said, this was just in me. And when we started the podcast, which was eight years ago, I actually started a website at that time. It was called Beholder, and it was for women over 40. Because at that time I had just left the fashion magazine I was at, and we really targeted women 24 to 35, and everybody was targeted. I was there for 13 years, but was that. Where would I go next? And I started looking at publications that were for sort of my age group and I was like, I don't relate to this at all. Yeah, it's like recipes, like, I don't cook. You know what I mean? It was like, yeah, it was, you know, it was Good Housekeeping. It was what More Magazine, you know, that kind of thing. And it was no shade, but. Yeah, no, no shade, but like, I don't relate to. I don't want to be defined by my age. I just want to be seen and reflected and, and have articles relate to me. So that's when I started my site and I started writing about real people and real things moms. But maybe they were going through certain issues, whether it was their marriage or like weekend drugs or whatever it was. And, and I think that was very new, but I couldn't really launch that at the time. First of all, our, our podcast took off. And second of all, to try to fund the SEO that would have been required to make an editorial site fly was just not feasible, but it was still in me. And so now, having spent eight years interviewing founders, testing a bazillion products, all of this, I really understand now the power of community and storytelling through products and a brand. And I think that's really where we're at now. And that's why there are so many brands. And I think that's okay. Like, I acknowledge the fact that we don't need more products in the world. We, we had that covered at least a decade go. But people now, in my opinion, use beauty products the way that we shop for fashion and build our wardrobe. It's multiple brands. It's enjoying the experience of interacting with that brand in addition to functionality and the self care of it all and the self care and the ritual of it all. And, and that's okay.
- [13:15]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, you know, I think so. So we've got the, the inspiration behind the name. Let's talk about the hero product.
- [13:22]
Carlene Higgins
So I, I knew when I was going to create one product for Cassatt, especially targeting who we're targeting, that it had to be a retinoid. Really, because there are so many fly by night ingredients that you and I have seen and tested. But we both know as beauty editors that the ingredient that has the most amount of consistent clinical results behind it is retinol. So I knew I had to launch with that. But I have had trouble with retinoids in the past because I have extremely sensitive skin. I didn't always have extremely sensitive skin, but when I hit perimenopause, what happens in your body is that you build up so much inflammation.
- [14:10]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [14:11]
Carlene Higgins
Remember I've talked about this on the mic a couple of years ago, I couldn't use anything. And what I realized is, okay, this is weird to be in this place because this is the time when I need products that are going to address sagging, dark marks, texture, pores, lines, and yet I can't use it. That seems ridiculous. So what I sought out to solve was to try to quell inflammation, to nourish skin and comfort it at the same time that the retinoid is working.
- [14:49]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [14:49]
Carlene Higgins
So the hero product is La Pomade Retinoid skin ointment.
- [14:54]
Jill Dunn
So it's in an aluminum tube, everybody in this very beautiful pale blue with a black cap on it. And it's, it feels like you've had it in your bathroom forever, but not. I don't know how to describe it.
- [15:07]
Carlene Higgins
It's like.
- [15:08]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, it's iconic but fresh.
- [15:10]
Carlene Higgins
Yes. So this is, this is sort of the comp. It's empty. It's a nice clean version. This is my well loved. Been to Italy. So if you want to feel it, Jill. Yes, you can. You can open it up. You only need a pea size amount.
- [15:24]
Jill Dunn
So the full name, everybody, is the La Pomade Retinoid Skin Ointment. So it's in a tube akin to like a Lolita skin food idea or some French pharmacy vines that maybe we have tried or you have tried in the past. So was that an inspiration at all?
- [15:41]
Carlene Higgins
I mean, it's called La Pomade. So it definitely is inspired by French pharmacy, this particular product. And that's because when I was looking at the world of retinoids and how, what would be new, what would be different? I Thought back to a retinoid ointment. Yeah, that was OTC originally. And I was like, how can I build on this concept in a way where it's not going to destroy my skin barrier? And that's what I really sought out to do. So even though it feels like petrolatum when you put it on, it's actually what I'm calling a bio ointment. So it is petrolatum free.
- [16:19]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [16:20]
Carlene Higgins
And instead of using.
- [16:21]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, people are. So it doesn't. It's not Vaseline adjacent. That's right, yeah.
- [16:26]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah. So there's no petroleum in it. But I did want to create that feeling so that when you put it on, it's quite occlusive and you get a little bit of a slugging feel to it because that's what creates the efficacy because you're using a mild retinoid. This is actually a retinol acetate. What makes it so effective, though, is I'm going to call it a demi occlusive barrier because it's not as occlusive as petroleum.
- [16:56]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [16:57]
Carlene Higgins
It's a little bit more breathable than that, which is actually nice because it's not as poor clogging. It's a considered a non comedogenic formula, which was pretty hard to create.
- [17:08]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [17:08]
Carlene Higgins
I was thinking of you, Jill. When I sent the brief to the chemist, I was like, don't know. Shea butter.
- [17:12]
Jill Dunn
Yeah. Do not even go there.
- [17:14]
Carlene Higgins
Do not come back to me with shea butter.
- [17:16]
Jill Dunn
Guess what? People in their 40s still break out.
- [17:18]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, exactly.
- [17:19]
Jill Dunn
Sorry.
- [17:19]
Carlene Higgins
Jill's going to me. So instead I'm calling it a bio ointment.
- [17:24]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [17:25]
Carlene Higgins
And the bio ointment consists of various botanicals and oils and waxes that instead have this anti inflammaging effect.
- [17:36]
Jill Dunn
Right, right.
- [17:37]
Carlene Higgins
And so we've got arnica calendula, which I've often told you is one of my favorite ingredients. Rice bran wax, castor oil. And those ingredients create what I would call a demi occlusive base.
- [17:52]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [17:52]
Carlene Higgins
So petrolatum being very occlusive, that creates kind of like a Saran Wrap on your skin. That's like that slugging idea. What's great about that is it enhances penetration of anything underneath.
- [18:05]
Jill Dunn
Yeah. And it's holding the water in, holding the moisture in.
- [18:07]
Carlene Higgins
That's right, yeah. And so this one is kind of like medium to occlusive, so it is more breathable, but it's still giving you a bit of that slugging effect. So that's what it's making it where you're not losing that water transepidermal water loss that we talked about that happens at night while you sleep because you have that demi occlusive barrier.
- [18:31]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [18:32]
Carlene Higgins
So as a result there's so much less dryness with this formula. I used it all winter long and I didn't have any flaking, stinging, that sort of thing. So it really is a modern day like barrier supporting formula. Even though it's a retinoid as well.
- [18:51]
Jill Dunn
That's great.
- [18:52]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [18:53]
Jill Dunn
And let's talk a bit about retinol because we all know that it has been around for so long, but it does cause so much confusion. So as far as I know, it's like retinols are like families. Right. There's like the hero, which is like tretinoin, which is from your doctor.
- [19:07]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [19:08]
Jill Dunn
If you can go there, go there. Right. But a lot of people can't because it's strong and whatever.
- [19:12]
Carlene Higgins
That's right.
- [19:13]
Jill Dunn
So and then there's red and al.
- [19:16]
Carlene Higgins
Yep.
- [19:16]
Jill Dunn
Which provides better efficacy with not as much irritation. And then there's retinol Ol.
- [19:21]
Carlene Higgins
That's right.
- [19:22]
Jill Dunn
And that's often what you will see in drugstore products.
- [19:26]
Carlene Higgins
That's right.
- [19:26]
Jill Dunn
Right. Y and you, yours is the category of retinol esters.
- [19:31]
Carlene Higgins
Retinol esters.
- [19:32]
Jill Dunn
So in that famous French pharmacy find y they use retinol palmitate.
- [19:39]
Carlene Higgins
That's correct.
- [19:40]
Jill Dunn
And yours is using retinol acetate and that's R E T I N Y L. So tell me how you landed on that and why.
- [19:48]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, so again, because we have this occlusive barrier. It and it creates that environment where it's with the penetration of the retinol you don't need a strong retinol. And also my skin would not be able to handle it. That's like a hundred proof alcohol.
- [20:06]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [20:07]
Carlene Higgins
So I really wanted something very gentle that was in this retinol esters family. Long story short, that when would be clean at Sephora, if ever I wanted to go that route. So there's not a lot of communications with this brand around the idea of clean beauty. Because we've talked about how that doesn't mean that much.
- [20:28]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [20:28]
Carlene Higgins
These days.
- [20:29]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [20:30]
Carlene Higgins
But I just felt that for people who are concerned about it, I wanted it to be clean at Sephora. So that's why we're using retinol acetate.
- [20:39]
Jill Dunn
Yours feels, I guess more like a balm, I would say like versus the OG friends French pharmacy one which feels like you're putting on something you got from your Dermatologist.
- [20:52]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, exactly. It's a little bit more elegant. Elegant, I would say, and more people who like to use balms in the winter. If you're a face oil girly, I think you're gonna love this because it's really the best of both worlds. If you're a person who doesn't like any of those types of products, listen, it may not be for you. And I get that. And if you have a retinol you're happy with, great, stick with it. And that's the whole point of it. Retinol is a little bit like sunscreen. You have to find the one that you use to be consistent to get that low and slow buildup where your skin starts to. You get the payoff and you get that tolerance. It's all about building a tolerance. And, and that's why I created this product is really for me and for people like me who just have not been able to do that traditionally.
- [21:45]
Jill Dunn
So what results have you seen personally? And like what I know you're like testing it right now and everything. And by the way, everybody, you can go to cassatt beauty.com which we'll link to in the show notes where you can preorder. That's right when this episode comes out because I know people will be excited to support you and try it out.
- [22:04]
Carlene Higgins
So personally I've noticed that my. There's just so much less dry out than I would normally get with other retinols. But also there's kind of like more of a juiciness and a glow from consistently using this product. That's kind of again, just like helping to keep my skin's natural moisture inside. But in addition to that, my chemist who's really cool because last winter when I was using it, I was like, I still, it's not giving me flakes or anything, but I want it to be just like a little bit more moisturizing, which is, which is a challenge. It's a waterless formula. There's no water in it at all. So everything is active in some way, shape or form. There's no ingredient that's in there for marketing purposes, which is nice to know when you're buying it. There's no water as the first ingredient, for example. So. And I said I want it to be a little bit moisturizing, something like a hyaluronic acid. We need something like that in there. But it's an, it's a occlusive formula where it's not a water based formula. So I was like, I don't know, is there a way to do that? And she actually came up with a way where we're using a hyaluronic acid in oil. So it actually is. It's not just keeping your moisture in, it's actually moisturizing at the same time, which is very unique. Like, it's very rare that you would find a hyaluronic acid in an oil formula.
- [23:33]
Jill Dunn
So this is actually. It would be the sodium hyaluronic.
- [23:36]
Carlene Higgins
That's right. So I find that my skin is more. It's more plump, it's more glowy. It doesn't get that kind of that dry, like, shriveled out look that you can start to get before your skin gets better with typical retinoids. And I would say the appearance of fine lines, like my crow's feet, for example. Somebody actually said to me the other day, oh, but you don't have crow's feet. And I was like, yeah, I do. So when I really looked at it though, I was like, yeah, I do think that they are less noticeable, for sure.
- [24:09]
Jill Dunn
So how are you using it in your routine?
- [24:12]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, so what I've done with the box actually is tried to do my job as a beauty editor as well, which is educating and providing clarity. And that's because that's one of the issues I have with the beauty industry is like, sometimes things are just so confusing. Personally, I don't like it when retinoid is hidden in products like a moisturizer or a face wash or products where you wouldn't necessarily expect it. And there's some weird name on the product like Age advance and it's like, what is that? So I tried to make it as clear as possible. It says right here it's a retinoid skin ointment. So you know when you're using it, this is your retinoid time, so you can use it as part of your cycle. So on cycling, cycling. So on the box for instructions, I have one side that's for gentle use and the other side that's for full strength. So it very clearly tells you here to use on dry skin if you want to use it in a gentle way. If you want it more full strength, you can use it on slightly damp skin. That's going to help with the absorption. So it could be right after your hydrating serum or right after you've washed your face.
- [25:22]
Jill Dunn
And this is nighttime, obviously.
- [25:24]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, definitely use it at night. And then for gentle, it's one to three times a week.
- [25:30]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [25:30]
Carlene Higgins
So I use it three times a week. If you want to use it full strength, you can use it nightly, every single night. So if you follow the general rule that we've talked about so many times on our show, which is you want to be using the lightest products in your routine with the thinnest consistency to the thickest. Right. Then this being an ointment, very clearly, this is at the very end of your routine.
- [25:55]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [25:55]
Carlene Higgins
So you're going to put it on top of your serum, on top of your moisturizer. If you want to do the moisture sandwich for gentle, you can use it on top of moisturizer. So that's like a bit of a buffer. If you want to use it for on full strength, you're going to use it on clean bare skin or over a serum, and then use sunscreen in the morning for both sides, whether it's gentle or full strength. So I really tried to make it as clear as possible to help people to be able to build retinoid into their routine without having the ugly experience of having irritation.
- [26:30]
Jill Dunn
Yeah. How many iterations did it take you to get here?
- [26:33]
Carlene Higgins
So this is version 11.
- [26:34]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [26:35]
Carlene Higgins
Lucky number 11. And actually it's funny because my substacks called the 11 and I didn't. That's just a coincidence. But this is version 11 and for.
- [26:43]
Jill Dunn
It's for. You can buy it in. In North America.
- [26:45]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah. So it is available in North America. The price is 74 US and $98. In Canada, it's available@cassat beauty.com.
- [26:54]
Jill Dunn
Let'S spell that for everyone. Sure.
- [26:56]
Carlene Higgins
It's C A S A T. So C A S S a t t beauty.com.
- [27:03]
Jill Dunn
Right. And so it's just director consumer right now.
- [27:05]
Carlene Higgins
That's right.
- [27:06]
Jill Dunn
So you. You did like a whole photo shoot and everything with this line, which I know is what you love to do is creative direct from me as your friend. Knowing you, I can tell that that's the part you probably enjoyed the most.
- [27:18]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, it's really funny because that is the part that I enjoyed the most. And that part was what was done first. Like, that's been wrapped for months. Yeah. Like that I could do with my eyes closed. So I loved creating the branding for Cassatt Beauty, the mood boards, the. The vibe of it, and, you know, the photo shoot as well. We worked with Rita Leifaber.
- [27:43]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [27:44]
Carlene Higgins
She is a stylist and a creative director who I used to work with at Flare many years ago. And the photographer was Kayla Rocca. And they're just a power duo. And Rita has a wonderful site called Edit he that connects people like you and I to stylists. They can help you build your wardrobe, and they just have the most beautiful, lovely esthetic and vibe. And I cast friends of mine, real people, who I just really respect and admire. So Zachy, you'll see on the campaign, she is a singer and our kids are friends. Oh, fun and that. So that's how we met. And she is wonderful. I'm so inspired by her. And she has this beautiful skin color and her. She's got a gap in her teeth and she is so creative. And she's a makeup artist as well. She does hair. She's a singer. She's like a multi talent. And so I worked with her. I worked with my friend Robin, who is also an artist. She does woven pieces for the home. And I worked also with Marissa, who is a store owner. She owns the Narwhal in Toronto, which is my favorite store to shop at. And we have a mutual friend, my friend Anna, who's an artist, came and did the prop styling. Her name's Anna Church and she is building a whole community around artists and showcasing their work. It's called Curate and Cultivate. And she is the first profile on our website because I want to profile and highlight again, just people who I admire, who we have this thing in common where we're just in the same place. We're interested in creating and collaborating and telling our stories. And so that's what it's all about. So it was just so organic. We shot across the street right there. You can see that.
- [29:34]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [29:35]
Carlene Higgins
Rita's studio. Her mother lives there. Shout out to Myrna.
- [29:39]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [29:39]
Carlene Higgins
And it was just the most beautiful thing. It came together so organically.
- [29:43]
Jill Dunn
It's just like, that's when you know, it's like. When you know, you know, it's like. It just, like, seemed easy. Yeah. In a good way. That it's like you just. You knew the right people to tap instinctively. And it all came together and it's just. It's. It's exciting. I'm excited for everyone to see the images and all of that.
- [30:00]
Carlene Higgins
Me too. And we also created a video.
- [30:02]
Jill Dunn
Okay.
- [30:03]
Carlene Higgins
And Zachy does the spoken word.
- [30:05]
Jill Dunn
Oh, cool.
- [30:06]
Carlene Higgins
And so the theme is See the beauty. And I can't wait to release it. It will be released on. You can follow us @cassatt.beauty on Instagram and at cassatt.beauty on TikTok as well.
- [30:20]
Jill Dunn
Oh, fantastic. Just starting the brand. What was the hardest part?
- [30:23]
Carlene Higgins
The business side. Absolutely. I mean, what do I know about business?
- [30:26]
Jill Dunn
Was it harder or easier than you.
- [30:29]
Carlene Higgins
Thought it was as hard as I imagined it was. Not harder or less hard.
- [30:34]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [30:35]
Carlene Higgins
The hard part is, is cloning myself and having time and having the learning curve to learn these things. That's been the hardest part. Honestly, in. In so many ways. I'm glad that I'm, I'm. I'm building this from scratch myself because I'm learning all of the aspects of the business, and I think that this business will get harder. I haven't even officially launched yet and started shipping products, so.
- [31:04]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [31:05]
Carlene Higgins
There's a long learning curve to go. And I. And I will make mistakes. I will tell you that now, but I will. I will correct them, too.
- [31:12]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [31:13]
Carlene Higgins
If you. If there's any issues with shipping, with anything, like, just reach out to me directly because I'm the only one. I'm here and I will handle it. You know, this is my. This is my baby. And I want everyone to be. Have a good experience, and I understand high standards. I think that's the thing as a beauty editor is that I do understand that and I understand service.
- [31:37]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [31:37]
Carlene Higgins
And what that means. And. And so I'm really committed to that.
- [31:41]
Jill Dunn
What was the biggest pivot that you had to make from when you first had the idea to now?
- [31:47]
Carlene Higgins
I would say. I would say the biggest pivot has been the timing.
- [31:51]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [31:51]
Carlene Higgins
You know, and you hear this from a lot of founders is just that there's a lot of delays and that has been. There's been a lot of pivoting going on just around timing.
- [32:01]
Jill Dunn
Yeah. More obviously, this year has been just tumultuous with every business, I think.
- [32:07]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, exactly. So, you know, I, I know they always say, like, don't be in a hurry. Don't be in a hurry. But I do think that there is timing when you're launching a retinoid. Like, I. I'm not going to launch it at the beginning of summer. And, you know, so right now, for example, where clinical trials are underway and they're not finished yet, in an ideal world, I would want them to be finished by the time that I launch. So I will definitely be updating the site with the clinical results, but I feel really confident from my own use. And as somebody experienced who have tried so many products, I know that this has worked exactly as I have designed it to work with the help of my chemist, and I have seeded it to estheticians, my dermatologist, key influencers. I have a group of about 10 people who I've ceded it to to get their feedback, to make sure that it's not just me with my own skin, with my own biases saying I created it, therefore it's great. So I feel good about that.
- [33:12]
Jill Dunn
People might be listening, wondering if I've tried it. I've only tried an initial sample from back in the day because delays. But of course, we will continue this conversation and I think it would be interesting also just because, you know, you are launching a brand and how we. How people listening might wonder, oh, is she not going to review products anymore or skincare products and what it means for the content of, like, what we are creating on the weekly, if there's any implications.
- [33:40]
Carlene Higgins
Absolutely.
- [33:41]
Jill Dunn
We should talk about that, I think.
- [33:42]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah, absolutely. And I wrote a sub stack about this on the 11, so I'm glad you brought it up because I think a lot of people don't talk about. I think they're afraid of this topic where in this industry, as content creators, so many of us wear so many hats now. And, you know, you could be reviewing products, but you're also consulting.
- [34:01]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [34:01]
Carlene Higgins
On the back end. Or you're also, you know, writing features or brand writing. You know, there's all kinds of ways that we can be potentially influenced. So.
- [34:13]
Jill Dunn
Well, plenty of our guests have worn all the hats. Violette.
- [34:16]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [34:17]
Jill Dunn
Online. We interviewed her with Garland.
- [34:19]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [34:19]
Jill Dunn
Lisa Eldridge, creative director of Lancome.
- [34:22]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [34:22]
Jill Dunn
And created a billion other products on the market. Has her own money.
- [34:25]
Carlene Higgins
Absolutely.
- [34:27]
Jill Dunn
Palermino does sponsored stuff and they should. I just think that doesn't surprise me.
- [34:33]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [34:33]
Jill Dunn
Anymore.
- [34:34]
Carlene Higgins
I think what's important is, is the transparency. And so anybody who is on our show, be aware that I have a skincare brand of my own. How it works right now and why it still works is because I'm not launching a brand with 20 products.
- [34:51]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [34:51]
Carlene Higgins
I'm launching one product and it will be low and slow. It could be a year before my next product. So in terms of what's conflicting, it would be other retinoid products. And I can be really honest and tell you I don't use any other products.
- [35:07]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [35:08]
Carlene Higgins
Because I can't.
- [35:09]
Jill Dunn
Any other retinoid.
- [35:10]
Carlene Higgins
Any other retinoid products. I don't use any because my skin can't take it. So in my mind, that's not really a. Like, there is no conflict, but I think it's important to disclose.
- [35:22]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [35:23]
Carlene Higgins
Just putting it out front, I think is the most important thing and that's the best that I can do. But I think that there will be quite a long time before I have to say, okay, you know what? I really can't. Like I've, I've closed the door on so many things now, but certainly makeup, which I talk about a lot, hair products and again all of it. Skin care. It's like anything outside of retinoid is fair game.
- [35:45]
Jill Dunn
Yeah, of course. It's good to disclose and I think people are going to be very excited for you. I'm really excited for you and.
- [35:54]
Carlene Higgins
Thank you.
- [35:54]
Jill Dunn
Proud of you. And it's just like so hard to. Everybody can have an idea.
- [35:59]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [35:59]
Jill Dunn
But to execute on the idea and just go with it and know that and to have blinders on and to be like, no, I know this needs to exist. It's like a very hard path to go on.
- [36:11]
Carlene Higgins
Absolutely. And you know, you asked me earlier why this needed to exist because. And I said there were two reasons. And so one was to speak to that audience and to what I'm calling kind of my. My peeps. That was one reason. But the other one is that I really don't intend to come out with products that already exist.
- [36:32]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [36:33]
Carlene Higgins
And I've said that many times. What is the point of that? And so in creating this product, there's only one benchmark that I can even think of in the world like this product. You can tell me if there are any others.
- [36:46]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [36:46]
Carlene Higgins
I can only think of one. And this product is distinct from that. It is building on that. It, you know, it's a 2025. It's a 2025 version of a product that was created probably back in the 70s.
- [37:00]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [37:00]
Carlene Higgins
And it's very, it is a very different experience.
- [37:04]
Jill Dunn
And I know that we have people of all ages who listen to this show. The younger girl is. You can use this too. It's not just for. Absolutely like you're speaking to that demo.
- [37:14]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [37:15]
Jill Dunn
But I think when the earlier you start using a retinoid, every derm says it the better.
- [37:20]
Carlene Higgins
Yes.
- [37:20]
Jill Dunn
We do have girlies in their 20s that are tuning in and we're grateful for you too. And it's. We're always going to be talking to them as well.
- [37:27]
Carlene Higgins
Absolutely. I've put in that brown algae. That's for inflammation specifically. It's just an anti inflammatory. And so if you're dealing with acne, it actually is good for anyone. Anyone who's familiar with slugging is going to love this product. It's like a two in one because you've got a retinoid and you have that demi occlusive barrier that I'm calling and you know people will say that's not a real Word. Well, it's not, but it's more occlusive than semi and it's less occlusive than full. So I just, I absolutely love it, I have to say, so.
- [37:59]
Jill Dunn
Great.
- [38:00]
Carlene Higgins
And that's what was most important to me is I think there is a bit of a, an addictive quality to it. Kevin uses it.
- [38:06]
Jill Dunn
Okay. Amazing.
- [38:07]
Carlene Higgins
When I take it away because we have been short on samples as well. We've talked about. So when I travel and I take it away, he, he'll text me.
- [38:15]
Jill Dunn
He's a good ambassador because he looks young.
- [38:17]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah. And he'll, he'll say to me, where's the cassette? What did you do with it?
- [38:21]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [38:21]
Carlene Higgins
So I know that there is that kind of comforting quality and I think that's. We all need that in the world today.
- [38:28]
Jill Dunn
We do, we do. Well, let's leave it there.
- [38:30]
Carlene Higgins
All right.
- [38:30]
Jill Dunn
I know that we're going to be talking about this much more over the coming months and years, but this was sort of just like an.
- [38:36]
Carlene Higgins
An explainer, an intro, an official introduction.
- [38:39]
Jill Dunn
And thankfully we got the exclusive here at Breaking Beauty. Let's remind everybody where they can follow you personally. Your substack and then the brand, of course.
- [38:49]
Carlene Higgins
Yes. So it's cassatt beauty.com c a s s a t t beauty.com it's available for pre order today. Get your hands on it on Instagram and TikTok. It's@cassatt.beauty. right on both of those. You can follow us over there as well and check out my friend Zaki and her spoken word. It's so good.
- [39:11]
Jill Dunn
That's so cool. And your subst is you'll be documenting this journey more specifically and breaking the. All these things down because there's everything we talked about today could be an hour long conversation, you know.
- [39:23]
Carlene Higgins
Absolutely. So the sub stack is the 11s. You can follow me on there and I'll be doing some behind the scenes as well as my, as my regular kind of like blogging. Just, just real life.
- [39:35]
Jill Dunn
Return to the roots. Return to the, the, the holder for real.
- [39:40]
Carlene Higgins
That's, that's really what, what's coming out in there. And so I have a small but loyal following. I love it when I run into that my beauty editor girlies and they're always like I read your substack today and I loved it. This, you know, this and that. I can't wait to share this product with them because at the end of the day when all is said and done, what this is, is an update on a beauty editor favorite occult classic.
- [40:05]
Jill Dunn
Right.
- [40:05]
Carlene Higgins
So I think my beauty editor girlies, who again, I. We've kind of grown up with. And it's funny, I saw on Instagram, did you see that beauty editor get together with all the New York beauty editors?
- [40:16]
Jill Dunn
No, I didn't.
- [40:17]
Carlene Higgins
It was so cute. It was Gene Godfrey, June and like all of the OGs.
- [40:22]
Jill Dunn
Nice.
- [40:22]
Carlene Higgins
And I was like, we need to do a Canadian edition.
- [40:24]
Jill Dunn
Yeah.
- [40:25]
Carlene Higgins
Sponsored by Cassad.
- [40:27]
Jill Dunn
I think that's a great, great idea. And yeah, like, beauty editor faves are. They're the best.
- [40:31]
Carlene Higgins
Yeah.
- [40:32]
Jill Dunn
Faves. Because it's like if you know, you know.
- [40:34]
Carlene Higgins
Exactly.
- [40:35]
Jill Dunn
Well, Carlene, this has been a delight and I'm so excited for you. So proud of you and I'm so happy that it's actually here for pre order. Anyway. And this conversation will continue like I said, so. And by the way, everybody follow our substack, which is Breaking Beauty. Just search Breaking Beauty on substack. Subscribe to our YouTube channel. We've had the most epic guests over the last month. Yes, we've had Bobby Brown, we've had Lisa Eldridge, we have had Chris McMillan in the last little bit. Our audience is growing a lot on YouTube, so please join us there. And finally we. This is Wednesday, but we have a bonus episode coming out on Friday and it's all about longevity and it's a really interesting conversation around skincare that we're. That's happening right now. So bonus episode on Friday, y'.
- [41:20]
Carlene Higgins
All.
- [41:20]
Jill Dunn
We'll see you then. Bye.
- [41:23]
Carlene Higgins
Thanks for listening. You can find details on on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog@breaking beautypodcast.com While you're there, be sure to.
- [41:34]
Jill Dunn
Sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a.
- [41:39]
Carlene Higgins
Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast.
- [41:46]
Jill Dunn
And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.
- [41:51]
Carlene Higgins
You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.
- [41:59]
Jill Dunn
And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.
- [42:09]
Carlene Higgins
See you. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.