Hairstylist Chris McMillan on His *NEW* Hair Product Line, “The Rachel” Lore, C*nty Little Bob Summer and Hair Tips Galore

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast Episode Summary: "Hairstylist Chris McMillan on His NEW Hair Product Line, “The Rachel” Lore, C*nty Little Bob Summer and Hair Tips Galore"

Release Date: July 23, 2025
Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Guest: Chris McMillan, Renowned Celebrity Hairstylist

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Introduction to Chris McMillan and His Legacy

In this captivating episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcome the legendary hairstylist Chris McMillan. Celebrated for creating the iconic "Rachel" haircut for Jennifer Aniston in the 1990s, McMillan has remained a pivotal figure in the beauty industry for over four decades. The episode delves deep into his storied career, personal journey, and his latest venture into the world of hair care products.

Unveiling Chris McMillan's New Hair Care Line

[02:10] Jill Dunn introduces exciting news: Chris McMillan is set to launch his own eponymous hair care line in August 2025 at Sephora. This marks McMillan's first venture where his innovative ideas are the centerpiece, departing from his previous partnerships with brands like Living Proof and Drunk Elephant.

[02:39] Carlene Higgins describes the product aesthetic as "gorgeous" and inspired by "a luxe French pharmacy," emphasizing a chic and effortless vibe. The flagship product is the Glassy Smooth Blow Dry Spray, designed to deliver a sleek, long-lasting blowout without sacrificing movement or natural hair flow.

[03:34] McMillan elaborates on his product philosophy, aiming for "workable" styles that balance hold and flexibility, resonating with the sophisticated yet relaxed "French girl" aesthetic.

The Story Behind "The Rachel" Cut

[08:45] The conversation shifts to McMillan's most famous creation—the "Rachel" haircut. Chris recounts how his collaboration with Jennifer Aniston began during a True Romance photoshoot in the early '90s. An impromptu decision to give Patricia Arquette a French bob during a European press tour led to widespread media attention.

[09:00] McMillan explains, "It's super authentic. I was on a photoshoot for Greg Gorman, needed a hairdresser for Christian Slater, and ended up meeting Molly Madden, Patricia Arquette's manager. That's how the Rachel was born."

The haircut was inspired by a Gucci Runway show, where McMillan drew inspiration from the fusion of "rocker" and "sophisticated" styles, blending messy elements with chic sophistication—a hallmark that continues to influence his work today.

Personal Journey to Sobriety

[15:54] McMillan opens up about his personal struggles, revealing that he has been sober since October 15, 1999. He shares a candid account of his battle with addiction, including a harrowing experience of evading the police and spending 16 months in a men's sober living facility, Liberty House.

[16:37] "I realized what extensions were and then I was like, let's put some extensions in your hair and give you a longer, layered version," McMillan reflects on his path to recovery, emphasizing that sobriety has enhanced his creativity rather than stifling it.

This transparency resonates deeply with the hosts and listeners, highlighting the importance of resilience and personal growth in the beauty industry.

Insights into the New Product Line

[32:49] McMillan discusses the inspiration behind his new hair care line, aiming to simplify the often overwhelming array of hair products. He emphasizes a return to basics, reminiscent of classic brands like Sebastian.

[33:05] The hero product, the Glassy Smooth Blow Dry Spray, is described in detail:

• Scent: Orange blossom, offering a nostalgic, summery vibe.
• Function: Provides heat protection, adds shine, detangles, and prolongs blowouts for up to three to four days without leaving residue.

[35:09] McMillan shares his application technique: spraying on damp hair, evenly distributing with a wide-tooth comb, and using a round brush to achieve a sleek, frizz-free look.

[36:17] He highlights the product's versatility, suitable for various hair types, including graying hair that masks gray strands with color.

Celebrity Clients and Salon Experiences

[26:01] The discussion touches on McMillan's diverse clientele, including Jennifer Aniston, Michelle Williams, and recent projects like Leslie Bibb's "C*nty Little Bob" in White Lotus Season Three.

[43:21] McMillan offers exclusive insights into creating the viral "Cunty Little Bob," discussing the meticulous process of tailoring the cut to complement different face shapes and character personas. He humorously recounts how the nickname "Cunty Little Bob" originated from on-set conversations and social media buzz.

Haircut Pricing and Client Experience

[24:45] Addressing the most Google-searched question, McMillan candidly discusses his haircut pricing, which ranges from $0 to $1200. He explains that pricing varies based on the client's needs, the complexity of the cut, and the personalized experience he offers. Unlike high-end salons with multiple assistants, McMillan ensures a one-on-one session with his assistant Damien managing bookings.

[26:01] Hosts Jill and Carlene compare his pricing to the industry's standards, noting that while some salons charge exorbitant rates (e.g., £600 for a manicure in London), McMillan's pricing remains "perfectly reasonable."

Expert Hair Tips and Trends

Key Takeaways from McMillan:

1. Everyone Should Try a Bob:
   [51:15] McMillan advocates for the bob haircut as a "foolproof cut" suitable for many, emphasizing its role in rejuvenating damaged hair and providing a stylish reboot.

2. Long Hair Maintenance:
   [52:17] He underscores the ease of managing long hair compared to short, recommending face-framing layers for a natural, organic look inspired by icons like Chloe and Kate Moss.

3. Curly Hair Trends:
   [53:46] For curly hair enthusiasts, McMillan recommends a shag cut that embraces natural curls, allowing for face contouring and enhanced curl flow.

4. Parting Styles:
   [54:12] Addressing the social media debate on parting styles, McMillan embraces versatility: "middle, off-center, and side parts. There's no rules."

5. Pro Tip for Volume:
   [56:57] A behind-the-scenes trick shared by McMillan: "Put your head upside down, spray your hair, lift it, and lightly clear the face area for added volume and a mane-like effect."

Fun Segment: Memoir Reveal

In a light-hearted TikTok-style segment, McMillan humorously responds to the idea of writing a memoir. He candidly shares his regret over not having children, attributing it to the tumultuous era of the AIDS crisis during his late teens. This moment adds a personal and vulnerable touch to the episode, highlighting the multifaceted life of a celebrity hairstylist.

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

[42:04] As the episode wraps up, McMillan expresses gratitude for the support of the beauty community and acknowledges the challenges of launching a new product line. Hosts Jill and Carlene offer heartfelt congratulations, emphasizing the timely release of his products and their confidence in their quality and longevity in the competitive market.

Listeners are encouraged to follow the Breaking Beauty Podcast on various platforms, engage with their social media channels, and explore exclusive promo codes for featured products.

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Notable Quotes:

• Chris McMillan [02:10]: "This is the first time that Chris's ideas are front and center."
• McMillan [09:00]: "It's super authentic. I was on a photoshoot for Greg Gorman..."
• McMillan [15:54]: "My sobriety date is officially October 15, 1999."
• McMillan [24:50]: "I charge anywhere from zero to $1200."
• McMillan [51:15]: "I really do think everybody should try a bob."
• McMillan [54:18]: "You can contour your face with the layers around your face. Why not contour your face?"

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This episode of Breaking Beauty Podcast offers a deep dive into the life and artistry of Chris McMillan, blending professional insights with personal narratives. Whether you're a beauty enthusiast, aspiring hairstylist, or someone interested in the stories behind iconic styles, this episode provides valuable perspectives and actionable tips to elevate your hair game.

Transcript

[Jill Dunn]

The following podcast is a Dear media production.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the Podcast.

[Jill Dunn]

All about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Carlene Higgins]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to another episode of Breaking Beauty Podcast, everyone. I'm your co host, Jill Dunn and I'm here with Carlene Higgins. How are you, Carlene?

[Jill Dunn]

I'm great, Jill. And all of you probably know by now we're two longtime beauty editors turned beauty podcasters here to fill your beauty cup every single Wednesday.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, we're so grateful for our pod fam who've been riding with us for the last eight years as we're yapping about everything from new hashtag damn good product finds that we think are top shelf worthy. Because as editors, we've seen it all and swatched it all. So we're picky around here.

[Jill Dunn]

And if you're new around here, we're glad you found us. In our archives, you can find conversations with some famous faces like Kate Hudson and Tracy Ellis, Alice Ross. And as journalists by trade, Jill, you know we love to interview the top hair, makeup and skin pros in the beauty game to get their best tips and tricks. So people like makeup by Mario. Dr. Shereen Idris has been on our show a few times. And our guest today, who is nothing short of iconic in the beauty world.

[Carlene Higgins]

Drum roll, please. This week we are thrilled to welcome celebrity hairstylist extraordinaire, Chris McMillan. So from the legendary 90s, quote unquote, Rachel haircut with his muse, Jennifer Aniston to inspiring the cut of 2025, you know that cunty little Bob for Leslie Bibbs turn in the White Lotus season three. He's a true visionary and he's been turning out trends for more than four decades. And we're just so excited to share the podcast exclusive. And we got some news, y', all that Chris will be dropping his very own eponymous hair care line in August of 2025 at Sephora.

[Jill Dunn]

So exciting. And you might recall that Chris has had past partnerships with powerhouses like Jen Aniston's Living Proof and Drunk Elephants hair care. Fun fact. Tiffany Masterson, the founder of Drunk Elephant, is one of Chris's childhood friends and she's been on our show. You can go back and listen to that episode in our archives. And so he helped to develop her products, but this is the first time that Chris's ideas are front and center.

[Carlene Higgins]

By the way, everyone, what we've seen so far, the products are gorgeous. I would say inspired by a luxe French pharmacy like very Chic. The hero product, we're told, is the glassy smooth blow dry spray, which I've yet to try, but it's meant to give this really super sleek, long lasting blowout look. And just ahead, Chris fills us in on how he likes to use it. And I would say the three through line with the products, Carlene, it seems like they're going to be workable and give hair hold and shape still with movement and, you know, the French girl vibe be vibing.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Well, when you were talking about the glassy smooth blow dry spray, I couldn't get the picture out of my mind of Jennifer Aniston, you know, when her haircut, it wasn't so like bouncy and voluminous, but she grew it long and it was layered, but it was so slick, like glass. That's what I'm picturing.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And I mean, or like on. On Gwyneth Paltrow, he's done that look like.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, like hair look, you know?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And you just know that Chris has been testing his products on all of his girls he works with in his salon in Beverly Hills. He's still working in salon, which is, which is amazing. And all feeds into his product line. And he still works on major editorial shoots as well. He just did a feature in New York magazine with one of his longtime clients, Michelle Williams, where she was shot by Ellen Von Unworth.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And like a little behind the scenes tea. The next day, after we had spoken to Chris, he was going on a shoot with Barbara Streisand.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yes, that's right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So there's a lot of ground to cover with Chris today. So let's get to it. Chris was born to podcast. Let me tell you stories for days. So just ahead, he shares the story of how the Rachel cut put him on the map and how he was inspired by a Gucci Runway moment to create it in the first place.

[Jill Dunn]

He also got super personal and shares his journey to sobriety and how that led him to this moment today of wanting to start his own hair care line after all of these years in the business. And which famous friends give him feedback.

[Carlene Higgins]

He'S delivering on, tips galore, the products he can't live without, how to make the cunty little bob work for you no matter what your face shape is, when to know if you should get bangs, and is the side part really over? And he also shares the haircut he thinks everyone should try at least once in their life. And of course, one of the most googled things about Chris Carlene is how much does he charge for a haircut? So we we go ahead and we ask him what the going rate is these days.

[Jill Dunn]

He is completely authentic. He says exactly what's on his mind. He has no filter. Best kind of guest and if you love this interview, share it with a friend who you think would enjoy it. We're always welcoming new members to our.

[Carlene Higgins]

Podfam and this interview is a fun one to watch. So please subscribe to Breaking Beauty Podcast on YouTube and hit the little bell icon when you do subscribe and then it will alert you when we have new episodes which is every single Wednesday. And please us on Tik Tok at Breaking Beauty Podcast we have some additional footage of our chat with Chris that's exclusive for Tik Tok. He's reacting to some of his past iconic looks and so without further ado, let's give a huge Breaking Beauty welcome to the legend himself. Chris McMillan. Purador is one of our show partners this week. I'm all about trans transparency when it comes to beauty brands and I feel like it's very rare to find a brand that does everything from formulation to filling in house. And Purador is one of those brands. Every single product is proudly made in the USA and they use renewable energy. It's all done under strict quality control, all in house. So you know you're getting consistency in care and every single batch. Now if you're not familiar with Purador, they're actually really famous for their aloe vera based shampoo and conditioner formulas and those have no sulfates, no parabens, no synthetic fragrances, colorants or harmful chemicals. And of course they're actually gluten free and hypoallergenic as well. And if you're somebody who's really into barrier repair, you're going to want to check out their skincare oils as well. This is a go to for anyone looking for that barrier support because each oil in the collection is cold pressed to preserve nutrients. It's a hundred percent pure with no fillers. It's sustainably sourced and safe for all skin types. So whether you're dealing with dryness, dullness or irritation, these oils are gentle enough for daily use, but powerful enough to make a visible difference. So if you want to check out Purador, we have an exciting promo code just for Breaking Beauty listeners. Don't wait. Strengthen your skin from within. Head to purador.com pages beauty for 15% off now once again purador.com/pages/beauty for 15% off now we will link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Peyton Sartin]

Hi, everyone. I'm Peyton Sartin, host of the Note to Self podcast. Note to Self is a space to embrace your unique qualities, get grounded, and ultimately have honest conversation. No topic is off limits. I began doing social media seven years ago, and since then I've started a clothing line. And this podcast, Note to Self, is a place where people from every stage of life can come for advice, new perspectives, and to feel a little less alone. Whether I'm recording by myself or bringing along a friend, we will explore topics ranging from relationships and mental wellness to social media and entrepreneurship. Tune in to Note to Self every week for the sisterly advice you didn't know you needed and raw conversations you've always wanted.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast. Chris McMillan, you are here.

[Chris McMillan]

Thank you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Carlene and Jill, thank you so much. We need to talk to you about the lore you. You just. You've been in this. This industry for four decades. The lore around you and the haircuts you create are incredible.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, you're very fine. Thank you.

[Carlene Higgins]

And the lore of the Rachel, it goes crazy, as the kids say. It's just iconic. So let's talk about how you first connected with Jennifer Aniston and how that changed your career. I know you've told the story a million times, but never on a podcast, so let's hear it.

[Chris McMillan]

No, it's a. It's a good story, too. It's. It's super authentic. It's super organic. I was on a photo shoot I did. I was so in this business back in the day. It was kind of 90s, early 90s. I did a photo shoot for Greg Gorman, who was a big photographer in LA and who he's. Who still is, but it was a Sunday and he needed a hairdresser to do one portrait of Christian Slater. And it was for a magazine, no Money Detour Magazine. And I did it, and it ended up being the COVID and, like, eight pages. It was for a movie, True Romance. I did him like James Dean meets Elvis Presley. It was kind of like cool guy hair. His publicist hired me to do him for the press junket. On the press junket, I met this woman, Molly Madden, who was the manager of Patricia Arquette, who was also in True Romance. And there's a lot of downtime on press junkets, so of course I have a lot of energy. So I was like, you should have bangs. And so I got bangs on the. Molly Madden, who was the manager of Patricia Arquette. Hence, I went on a press tour, European press tour, with Patricia and with. With Christian, did their hair and their makeup for the whole thing.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Chris McMillan]

In Paris, I got really stoned and I had to do the roots for Patricia. So I went to the pharmacy, a French pharmacy, just found a box that had a color that looked like it was Patricia's color, that it bleached her hair. And then I'm like, we're in Paris. We might as well do a French bob on you. And so I cut her hair from her sort of feathered to this little, like, straight across, bang. Sort of like a smaller version of Anna Wintour.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And a little French girl bob. And the next day, it was headlines. It was everywhere, all over the press. You know, Patricia Arquette, movie star. True romance embraces the French girl look.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And so hence, you know, coming back to la. So Molly Madden kept using me, and. And she said, I have a girl who just did a. Who just did a pilot. They love the pilot, but they don't love her hair. And she needs a haircut. And can I send her to you? And she did. And it was. And I was working at a stilo on Beverly Boulevard. Beverly and Martel and Jennifer Aniston walked in and she had bangs and some long hair, and it was wavy. And I just was like, you need to grow your bangs out because you have a little forehead. And everyone's like, 101. Everybody knows when you have a little forehead, you shouldn't wear bangs.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

So I grew her bangs out and I cut her length to, like, her clavicle, brought all her hair to the bangs and cut it as a layer, and then gave her a big round brush blowout. So I think the combination. And then. Remember when we used to take. Pull the bangs over that were throwing out.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And then pin it with a bobby pin.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

And then pull the hair from behind. So that's where that sort of. I like, tucked her bangs out. And it's kind of where it started.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's amazing.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. And she's. She's really good about maintenance. Jennifer Aniston is amazing when it comes to maintenance. And so, like clockwork, she was back four weeks later. The bangs had grown out a little bit. I brought the length up. The layers were growing out and giving it that blow dry. And the little flicky ends, they would just. Her ends would just naturally sort of flip because they were kind of at her shoulders. I don't call it a flip. I call it a flick.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

People like their hair flicked More than they like, it flipped.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Important distinction.

[Chris McMillan]

It's a weird thing, but. Yeah. You say. They're like, I don't want it flipped. I was like, how about a flick? And you're like, I can do. I can deal with a flick.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, I hear that. I. I actually hear that. So I.

[Chris McMillan]

So she had those flicky little.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And then I remember that vividly.

[Chris McMillan]

Growing out really long around her face.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. All the layers, kind of like a longer shag.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And I read that it was actually inspired by, like, a fashion shoot at the time. A designer.

[Chris McMillan]

You know what. Amber Valletta, who was in the Tom Ford for Gucci ads.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. This. Remember the sexy.

[Chris McMillan]

The Mario Testino pictures. It was like it was my everything. I mean, that whole Tom Ford 95.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Gucci. There's. I still a reference of mine.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

The Runway show, the haircuts, the way the deeps bang. But kind of up. The smudgy eye makeup. It's still a reference to this day. I will always go back to that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

The little messy rocker.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Meets, like, sophisticated and chic and that. That's. And it's kind of carried out what my look is still to this day.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, I still reference that vibe, that energy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Flicks only.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. And then I realized what extensions were. So then I was like, let's put some extensions in your hair and, like, give you, like, a longer, layered version and that. Hence the COVID of Rolling Stone with Jennifer with Mark Seliger. And so it's just been an ever evolving hairstyle. It's not necessarily like the Rachel was. I think the Rachel could be 10 hairstyles, because the iconic character that Jennifer created and the hair she just has. Let's just be honest, Jennifer has amazing hair.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, and so it's a dream head of hair to work with. And I think no matter if she's wearing it wavy and curly or kind of like a choppy bob or, you know, one length or layered, she always looks great.

[Carlene Higgins]

I asked my hairdresser last week. I was like, how often do people. Are people still bringing in reference photos of Jennifer Aniston? She's like, literally yesterday. She is still that iconic muse to so many women. They're like, that's the ideal hair.

[Jill Dunn]

And you became friends as well.

[Chris McMillan]

And we became friends.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

She's like my sister.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

We're like brother and sister. We fight like brother and sister.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

It's good.

[Jill Dunn]

Do you talk every day?

[Chris McMillan]

We don't talk every day, but we do talk. Do send puppy Pictures and DMS from Instagram every day. With dogs. Because we're both obsessed with dogs.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I love that. I changed my algorithm so it's mostly pets. I'm trying to keep it there. Trying to keep it there.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. My algorithm is definitely, like, workout dudes and dogs.

[Carlene Higgins]

That sounds like a happy place for sure. So, Chris, many people may not know that a big part of your story is that you've been sober for many years. Is that correct?

[Chris McMillan]

October 14th, 1999.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Wow. Congrats.

[Chris McMillan]

I evaded the police.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

And had six pairs in a helicopter chased me through downtown la.

[Carlene Higgins]

I was gonna say to you, because I vividly remember when you wrote the first person story in Allure 2008, Danielle. I was shook to my core because we came from the magazine world, and it was just people were just not that open, especially in the hair and makeup industry or creative industries. And I was like, just so. I just admired your courage to come out and just chat so openly about it and how many people you would have helped and everything. And, yeah, these. These were larger than life stories. It was car chases. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

What the hell happened there?

[Chris McMillan]

Yep.

[Carlene Higgins]

Carlene didn't read it.

[Chris McMillan]

I guess it's called coke and mirrors, right?

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my God.

[Chris McMillan]

Well, somebody told me they're like, you should smoke it instead of snort it, and then you won't have cold, like, symptoms. Oh, I know. And I was like, okay, brilliant.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

But then that's called crack.

[Jill Dunn]

Right? Right.

[Chris McMillan]

So I definitely, you know, it's highly addictive.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. My sobriety date is officially October 15, 1999. Because you want, like, a good 24 hours before you say, I have one day. So it's. Thank you.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's amazing. I remember reading in the story, too, about. You would talk about how you would cut bangs, choppy layers, and sometimes you cut all their hair off. And you said that that kind of attitude was like, an asset. Like, you were almost not rewarded, but people were like, creative genius at work. Like, let's keep them flying coast to coast. And, like, you know.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, they definitely did. It definitely was. I did have a photographer once say to me, and he goes, if you weren't so good at what you do, I wouldn't hire you, but you're brilliant, you know, so we put up with your, you know, burned lips, and you're sleeping under the table while the model is in makeup and whatever, but you definitely have a. A sort of go for it attitude. Like drugs. Like, yeah, I'm gonna chop her hair off. I'M giving bangs. You know, you. You definitely have that energy about you. And then. And that's something I spoke to my sponsor, and I said, I won't be as creative sober. And that was definitely something that I sort of dealt with early on. But there's a lot more. It's not true. And I am who I am from my gut and my core, and I have that energy in me. But there's also so many more rewards that come with it, you know, with being sober.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm sure so many artists and musicians can relate to that now. Was it hard for you to get back into your career after you know that?

[Chris McMillan]

You know, what I did is I did end up being arrested. I swallowed the drugs. I ended up in jail. In jail hospital. And then Monday, I went to court, and they released me to a men's sober living called Liberty House. And it was their decision when I could leave. And I was there for 16 months. Wow. So I couldn't work for a year. I just. I stopped working. I just stopped working and focused on my sobriety. And it was the greatest year. And then they said, after a year, you can go to work. And they said, but you have to go cut hair. Super cuts or a fantastic Sam's. And I said, great. Whatever I need to do, I want to get back into doing hair. But I was going to meetings, and in a meeting was a hairdresser, and she was pretty fabulous. Her name was Carrie White, and she worked at a hair salon in Beverly Hills named tova. She had 28 years sober, and I presented that option. She offered me a job. I present everybody that worked there was sober, and they let me work there. So my first job was a hair salon in Beverly Hills on Cannon Drive.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Called Tova.

[Jill Dunn]

What a perfect landing pad.

[Chris McMillan]

And it was all with sober people, so I was well insulated and well protected.

[Jill Dunn]

Wow.

[Chris McMillan]

And then I started doing. And then Jennifer asked me if I would do season. Halfway through season seven, the hairdresser got fired.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And she asked me if I would come, and she said, come because the key hair and makeup artist are both sober.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh.

[Chris McMillan]

So you're in a very, like, safe space and you can do my hair. And then. Then Courtney was like, if you're here doing her hair, you're doing my hair too.

[Jill Dunn]

Right, right, right.

[Chris McMillan]

And then. Yeah. And so then I did half a season. 7, 8, 9, 10.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Amazing.

[Chris McMillan]

It was great.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, my gosh. So. What a. What a jo.

[Jill Dunn]

This episode is brought to you in part by Quince. The summer is Flying by, is it not? I'm set to go on my trip to Italy in just under three weeks. Now, not to make any of you jealous, I'm so excited and I'm starting to think about what I'm gonna pack. I need a capsule wardrobe that's going to last me through every dinner out, every poolside cocktail, all of the things. And I am turning to quints for that. They are the best for staple pieces that you're going to wear again and again. They're kind of timeless styles and they luxurious without the high price. That's the best part. So I'm thinking about 100 European linen tops which they have starting at $30 washable silk dresses. Those are going to be perfect in a heat wave. And they have soft cotton sweaters as well that you can throw on in the evening. It's all like warm weather pieces that you're going to reach for again and again. And the best part is that everything with Quint is half the cost of similar brands. And the way that they do this is that they work directly with top artisans and cut out the middleman. And that's how Quint gives you the luxury without the markup. Quint only works with factories that use safe, ethical and responsible manufacturing practices with premium fabrics and finishes. So this is not about fast fashion even though the prices are so affordable. So give your summer closet an upgrade with quince. Go to quince.com breaking beauty for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com/breaking beauty to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com breaking beauty and now back to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thrilled that Merit Beauty is supporting our show this week. We've talked about merit so many times on the podcast and why we really love it is that they've proven that minimal makeup, it doesn't have to be boring. You can truly do a five minute face and have all of these products out in the back of your uber and feel very chic while you're doing it. And merit, they just get it because they're helping you do more with less. They have high performance products that are clean and effortless and they have skin loving formulas that are all about enhancing your natural beauty. And the products are honestly so easy to use. Half the time I don't even use a mirror and there really are about getting your face on in five minutes or less. They have the game changing products like their Flush Bomb which is A dome shaped, very cute buildable cream blush that gives you a healthy natural flush. The minimalist, which is a foundation and concealer in one. It kind of looks like a chubby pencil stick that allows you to do a full face or just touch up where you need a little bit of coverage. And my favorite product is actually the shade Slick. It's a tinted lip oil. I love twin set. It's one of their sheens and it has this gorgeous mauve color that I feel like is very modern and you just cannot mess it up. And a lot of people love the great skin serum, which instantly hydrates and plumps for this very fresh, dewy base for your makeup. So if you're ready to simplify your routine, you have to check out Merit head over to meritbeauty.com and get their signature makeup bag for free with your first order. That's meritbeauty.com for your free signature makeup bag with your first order. We'll link to this URL in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show. One of the most Google things about you, Chris, and that is how much does Chris McMillan charge for a haircut? And is it the type of thing like back in our editorial days where it's like price upon request, like if you have to ask, it's too expensive for you kind of thing. So what do you, what do you say to that?

[Chris McMillan]

It's so funny. I am all over the map when it comes to how much I charge for a haircut.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

I charge anywhere from zero.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

To at the moment, 1200.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

And everything in between. And sometimes there will be somebody who's calling who doesn't care from who's probably will wants a, is a one off, just like a one time haircut. Who wants their haircut with me? And you never know. And you know that's when you get to charge somebody. You know, I've been working a long time, so let's, let's do it. And I'm not taking advantage. They definitely get the full experience. I don't have five assistants touching you. I have one assistant. Damien is my assistant that takes care of my books and everything who will book you. And he doesn't touch you, he just will book the appointment and he's the nicest guy in the whole wide world and he will make sure you are taken care of. And then my personal assistant will shampoo you. I'll do the consultation and they shampoo you. And you come in and you get your haircut and I do your haircut and your blowout and you get the full experience. It's not like you have, you know, one person blow drying the left side of your hair and one person blow drying the right side of your hair. And when you're done, you have to tip out for people.

[Carlene Higgins]

Listen, it sounds perfectly reasonable to me given what I, I personally, what I'm already.

[Jill Dunn]

That's what I was thinking.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like most places are now 200 and up in.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, I was just think. I was just thinking that we beauty editors for I don't know how many years now, a couple decades too many. And like I think we were seeing the 900 haircut like over a dozen years ago.

[Carlene Higgins]

I saw an article in Grazia last week for a 600 pound manicure. That's where we're at now. So in London, 600 pounds.

[Jill Dunn]

So you're under charging. You are under what we're saying.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, there you have it, everyone. I've asked the most Google question. Now we know from the man himself.

[Jill Dunn]

Exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

What about some of your celebrity clients? Is there any kind of like ritual you could share? Is there like this person always has to have this kind of tea or you know, like, are you. What kind of experience are they getting?

[Chris McMillan]

It's funny, I mean, just recently what it's about is everybody has sort of like, you know, their sort of do's and don'ts.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

And they all like Michelle Williams where we treat her hair like a silk. I said, I said, what did I say? Like a silk Celine blouse. And she said, no, it's a Prada blouse right now. And I was like, oh, okay. So you know, she bleaches her hair and we're very gentle and I just know I'm like, I don't use my strong hand. Like with Jennifer Aniston, I could be super strong handed. And she likes it when I like manhandle her hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, that's like me. I need some tension on that brush. I can tell immediately if it's going to be a bad blowout.

[Chris McMillan]

If it's like limp brush, Jen does too. You cannot touch her like this. You have to like get, yank it and manhandle.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's true.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, And I don't do Sarah Jessica Parker's. Her number one hairdresser is Serge Norman, obviously. But I'm a backup.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

And the ritual. I've been working with her a lot lately because Serge has been on a film, blah, blah, blah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

And we love when Serge is on a film because I love working with Sarah Jessica. But there's A ritual in is I can't talk to her while she's getting her hair done because she's reading.

[Jill Dunn]

Ah.

[Chris McMillan]

And doing work. I can talk to her, though, while she's getting her makeup done because she can't read.

[Jill Dunn]

Right, right.

[Chris McMillan]

And so that's the little rituals.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's why you're the pro and you've been doing it this long.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, it's nice.

[Chris McMillan]

It's really nice.

[Jill Dunn]

Now we gotta get into the topic, the big topic of the hour.

[Carlene Higgins]

I feel like there's been so many people that have kind of like, grown up in your salon and then gone on to create their own brand, you know. So after four decades, what has inspired you to maybe embark on this journey yourself?

[Chris McMillan]

Well, to be perfectly honest, I, I, you know, I've always been branded with somebody. I've always been. I was with Living Proof.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

I was with Drunk Elephant. I did sort of a thing with them. And I learned a lot. I learned a lot of lab time. I learned a lot about the business. I've learned about that kind of the do's and the don'ts and how hard it really is. And so it really, like, I don't really have the time to start my own business. And I. There was a contract for another beauty brand sitting on my kitchen counter. I want to say my desk, but I'm not that, like, clever. I don't really have a desk. I've got a kitchen counter. And it was sitting on my kitchen counter. And. And my partner, Kenny, my husband, my boyfriend, my everything. He's like, can I read this? And I was like, sure. And he's super smart. He's USC business school, graduate, more in property development and all of that. And he's like, why don't. You've got a great life, You've got this amazing life. Why don't you do your own thing? And I was like, well, I mean, everybody says that. My business manager's like, chris, you just need, like, you got to see these people. They're making a ton of money. You should do your own thing. Thing. And then even Damien's like, chris, let's do your own thing. But you got to be like, don't forget, you got to be at Jennifer's house right noon, and you need to be on a plane because you got to go do, you know, a concert here. And then you gotta, like, go do in France, do a fashion week. And so it's like always, everybody's got this great idea, you should do a product.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

But then I don't know the first thing to do. I'm a hairdresser, and I'm a creative. I'm not. Not, like, I know how to, like, count my money, and I know how to save my money, and I know how to spend my money. I know how to buy a house. I love the process of, like, all of that and buying a car and all those things and running the business has sort of, like, organically happened. And, like, somebody told me when I opened up my salon, they said, if you get through your first day, all you have to do is that again the next day, and then that again the next day. So it was really, like, really simple. I think it was Jill Dempsey that told me that. Yeah, Jillian Dempsey, me too. And she also told me, don't think you're not going to be changing your own light bulbs in your salon.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

I was like, oh, my God. She's not wrong. Nobody's, like, voluntarily changing light bulbs in my salon. So Kenny, he just like, let's. What does it look like to you? Like, what's your. So all of a sudden, the fantasy of what a product. If I were to do a product looked like, like. And just.

[Carlene Higgins]

He knows the right question to ask what to get you excited about.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. And it did. Is like. And so what would it look like? And then what would. You know? And what would you do? And like. And I always look at the wall of products at my salon, and I was like, the world of hair care products have really gotten confusing. I got. It's so overwhelming. I wanted to bring it back to natural. I wanted to bring it back to basics. And so that's kind of where it started. It kind of took me back to the old Sebastian days in the 80s when. When it was really basic Shaper Hairspray.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Like, Spritz Forte and then styling products. Like. Like someone that, like, there's. We have all these serums in my salon. And I was like, there's a night serum, and then there's a scalp serum, and then there's a damaged hair serum. And I. I don't even know how to use a serum. First of all, I don't like the word serum. Like, where was I? Was I doing hair? Like, I'm not, like, taking a dropper and putting it on, you know, Jennifer Aniston's scalp. Like, that never really made her hair do anything. So.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

I just started, like, playing and I started creating some lab samples.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And one thing led to another, and here we are today to almost two years later.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow.

[Jill Dunn]

Two Years. You've been sitting on this.

[Chris McMillan]

I've been sitting on this for two years.

[Carlene Higgins]

Show the camera.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, this is kind of my hero product.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, first of all, everybody that's listening. It's called Chris McMillan. It's in a gorgeous baby blue.

[Chris McMillan]

French blue.

[Carlene Higgins]

French blue.

[Jill Dunn]

French blue, Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

I love this.

[Jill Dunn]

Love it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Tell us, tell us everything.

[Chris McMillan]

This is the hero products. Oh, here's the smell of it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

Here's what it smells like. This is going to be my hero product. Product. So, as you know, I could do a blowout.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yes, we know that.

[Chris McMillan]

So it's.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, that's gorgeous. Like, it's so, like, sunny and almost a bit.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's neroli. Is it neroli and jasmine.

[Jill Dunn]

Orange blossom.

[Chris McMillan]

Orange blossom.

[Carlene Higgins]

Orange.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah, it's Orange blossom. It's Banda Soleil Orange gel number four meets copper tone.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

Number four sunscreen.

[Jill Dunn]

I knew it was giving, like a nostalgia summery kind of vibe. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Exciting.

[Chris McMillan]

And so what this is, is this is a blow dry spray. And it just. I give a great blowout and it just makes my life easier.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And I don't want to weigh hair down too much, so it's a light spray. There is a product like this.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

And it's in like a silver.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah. I'm just picking up what you're putting down. No, I'm picking up what you're putting down in a silver rectangular container.

[Chris McMillan]

It's like a flat mask.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

And. And it. But it's. I took. I wanted to make it even better and then even add a scent to it. So it's got a lot of. It's got heat protection for one.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

I like shiny hair. I don't like dry, matte looking hair. It also sort of works great as a detangler because I use it as a prep spray. So if you were to come to me to get your haircut, I will shampoo condition your hair. I'll spray this in your hair. It's kind of like what I do love. I love how merit flesh balm.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

It's the. No, you can't make a mistake with it. This. You cannot make a mistake.

[Carlene Higgins]

Those are like the little domed brushes.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't make a mistake with it. It's a great introduction to a product. You know, sometimes you put like, if you use like an oil, you're like, oh, wait, maybe I should. Where do I start? So you can't mess with up.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

So it's called the glassy smooth blow dry spray.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And so you're going to put this on damp hair.

[Chris McMillan]

You're going to put on damp hair after the shower.

[Jill Dunn]

Got it.

[Chris McMillan]

And then what I. What's happened is I always start in the back and sometimes it. I'm like, oh, look at. It actually works as a leave in. If you wanted to lean into your own natural hair.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

The cut, the texture, the. It leaves it shiny and keeps the frizz out. But this is also will prolong your blow dry for like up to three to four days.

[Jill Dunn]

Amazing.

[Chris McMillan]

And keep it nice and shiny and keep those frizzy pieces down and sometimes, you know, underneath. Like my clients, what I really did focus on is my clients that are graying also, that have gray hair, but they mask them with color. But so now there's this sort of texture, funny texture. There's. There's the combo texture, I call it. You know, it's not as smooth, but this really helps smooth that down. And like over here.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my God.

[Carlene Higgins]

So I noticed there's like almost like a little nozzle on it. Is it a spray or. Okay, okay, perfect. How are you. How are you using it?

[Chris McMillan]

I use it. I use it in the ends.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

And then kind of like spray it all over. And then I. I'm really a big believer of evenly distributing product through your hair. So really take a wide tooth comb. Take your comb and really get it through all your hair. Evenly distribute it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Incredible. And because the other product that you mentioned, that or that shall not be named, I find you really have to like, douse your head in it. It's to get the desire.

[Jill Dunn]

You might say.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. How much do you need of this?

[Chris McMillan]

Like I said, you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Not that much.

[Chris McMillan]

You don't need. You don't. For you. Because you have really super thick, thick hair. You know, you don't need to douse it. I would never use the word dow, but you know, like generous amounts, like, evenly distribute it. But also pull that water out of your hair so that you can use. But what's really nice is it doesn't get gummy. It doesn't feel sticky. There's no residue. You have a nice. And it smells nice.

[Jill Dunn]

It smells gorgeous.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's kind of giving that French girl take.

[Chris McMillan]

I do love the sort of crossover between a French girl and an L A girl. So I spend a lot of time in Paris, and whenever I'm in Paris, I do talk and I talk to people about their hair and they're like, oh, my God, you are from L. A. You are so cool. You guys do the best hair color. Blah Blah, blah. And then nobody knows how to do hair here. But then when I'm in my salon here in la, everyone's like, I want those, like, Jane Birkin bangs, or I want a French Bob, or I want, like, a Brigitte Bardot. Curtain bang. So there's this weird LA friend, like, Harry connection. Hedi Sliman lives in LA and designs for Celine.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And so there's always been this sort of crossover between LA and Paris. Paris.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it's like a mutual fascination, kind of.

[Chris McMillan]

It is, yeah. And then there used to be a store called Colette. Oh, yes, I remember Paris. So Colette was a great example. You could buy vans.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And for some reason, if you bought a pair of vans in Paris, it was so much cooler than going to Pax sun and in Hermosa beach and buying a pair of vans.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Now, who gave you feedback on this, and what kind of feedback were you getting? Did you, like. Did it take a while to get.

[Chris McMillan]

To this final 39 iterations? Wow. All of my. All of my products. So they basically came with me immediately when the lab samples came in. They went to the salon.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

So everything's delivered to the salon. And we work well. Kenny gets his too, because.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

He's not a hairdresser who thinks he's a hairdresser, but, like, the most helpful. I'm not a businessman, and I think I'm a businessman, so.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Well, that.

[Carlene Higgins]

That is my client.

[Chris McMillan]

Clients. My clients have really, truly been my heroes.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, they're my superheroes. My clients, all of them.

[Jill Dunn]

And would they get a little to take home and you.

[Chris McMillan]

I basically would use it. Yeah. But they all want it. And every time. What's kind of great is every time I would give them the product, they'd be like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And that's like just seeing me, seeing that. I was like, oh. It's like, for me, me, it's just another lab sample. But they were like. It was gold. It was something that nobody else has.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

So I'm really excited to sort of, like, give that energy.

[Jill Dunn]

Sure.

[Chris McMillan]

And all my products are performance products, products that we're all familiar with. We're all familiar with a pair of jeans.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Like, you know, we wore skinny jeans years ago. Now we're wearing wide leg jeans. It's. I'm basically just taking the classics and updating them. I'm updating them with sc. With my formulas. Being in the lab is my happy place. And playing with the. With the scientists in the lab is really, really fun.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

So everything that I have is a classic take on a classic, right?

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah. Gotta bring that French girl. Don't care.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. Quality day. Old hair, same day.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And I really do. And it is my look. Like, I want to give that. It gives that sort of, you know, Amber Valletta and Shalom Harlow and Kate moss in the 1995 Gucci Tom Ford Runway show.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. I would love to see your mood board for this brand. Oh, yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, gosh. Which one? There's so many. Well, that's where I can do a mood board.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, I can. I can.

[Chris McMillan]

I can do a mood board and I can pull references.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

Like, you don't even know. I'm talking Porsche ads from this. From the seventies.

[Carlene Higgins]

Incredible.

[Jill Dunn]

So that was for the blue bottle.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Amazing.

[Chris McMillan]

Ye. Yeah. No, we definitely. For my logo, we hired a girl named Charlotte Delarue and she does album covers in Paris. She works. She does, like, French album covers.

[Jill Dunn]

Amazing.

[Chris McMillan]

And I found her and I reached out to her and she sent us. And she kind of is the one that picked the French blue and the sort of 70s font. And I wanted my name to be upside down. Upside down and backwards because I'm. I can't take myself serious. I really wanted it in all lowercase also.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

There's a lot of fighting that you do when it comes to doing all of this kind of stuff.

[Carlene Higgins]

So fun.

[Jill Dunn]

It looks amazing.

[Carlene Higgins]

It looks amazing. I can't wait to get it in my hair.

[Jill Dunn]

I know. And I.

[Carlene Higgins]

What.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm excited about this for you as well, because I feel like you're going to be doing a lot more education. You're going to be out there more.

[Carlene Higgins]

Than you even have to talk.

[Jill Dunn]

So I know your tips are just amazing.

[Carlene Higgins]

So I feel like this is in. Sound bite a minute, right?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Neck. Tomorrow's hair today or whatever.

[Chris McMillan]

You said day. Old hair, same day.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, congratulations.

[Chris McMillan]

Thank you. I appreciate that.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm so happy for you. And I feel like the timing is right, you know? Thank you.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah, it's. You know what? It's. It's. The time is the time.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

When it's time is when is it a good time to do anything? When the time is right.

[Carlene Higgins]

When you want to.

[Jill Dunn]

It's a great time right now because. Because I always. We always say, even though there's so many beauty products on the market, the cream always rises to the top. And the people who have been doing this for four decades, it's like, you really know what's up. So I feel like people are going to want to try this. And as long as the formulas are good, which we know they are, that's going to keep them coming back. So, like, you're pretty much set.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, you're very sweet. We're having a lot of fun, and everyone's super, super supportive.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And, like, Rose is a great product, and we love it. And Jen Atkins, I mean, she's just skyrocketing, rocketed to the top with her product.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, I. Who knows if this works great if it doesn't? Like, you know, I'm not gonna say that I didn't try. And. Yeah, and we're definitely doing the work that it takes to do it.

[Jill Dunn]

And.

[Chris McMillan]

And kudos to anybody who has put any product out there because it is not an easy. Yeah, it's. It's a lot of. I dream about it. I have nightmares about it. It definitely does. And it. It is a labor of labor. Love, for sure.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Well, you know, we mentioned before that you're a celebrity hairstylist, but you're a salon owner, and you're in the salon every day cutting hair. So let's chat a little bit about some of your clients cuts and the inspiration we have to start with the viral CI Little Bob for Leslie Bibb on White Lotus. I'm obsessed. I will give a caveat, though, that I think you need to also have a c. Little jawline to pull this off. Like, I don't know, like, double chins look great with a cunty little bob. But I defer to you, by the way.

[Chris McMillan]

It's. It is a. But like it. We can just say a cunty bob. You know, there's. And I. I am still the person that pulls out a picture in a magazine.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And we'll show you. Unfortunately, nowadays, things have changed a little bit and they come out. But here's your cunty bob. Like, if you were to do a bob, I would do this length on you.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. Airdrop that to me.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, I will find. I can find a picture for everybody. Everybody.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, I need one. Yeah, I need a picture.

[Chris McMillan]

No, but I mean, it's. It's just obsessed.

[Jill Dunn]

So he's showing Jill a picture of a model.

[Carlene Higgins]

A model who's this, like, double.

[Jill Dunn]

Just. Just. Just below the shoulder.

[Chris McMillan]

Clavicle. It's an A line clavicle.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

And it's very, like, curled under.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

It's round brush and not care.

[Jill Dunn]

She looks great. I love it.

[Chris McMillan]

And this is my girl right now, Leslie Bib.

[Jill Dunn]

We have to add Ask what makes the cunty little Bob a cunty Bob?

[Chris McMillan]

Well, first of all, her character. I mean, come on.

[Jill Dunn]

She's obsessed with the show.

[Chris McMillan]

She's an independent.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

That's not for. Right, right, right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Are we really going to talk about. For sure.

[Jill Dunn]

But we're serious.

[Chris McMillan]

Are we really going to talk about this and then. Wait, do this? The mouth and the eyes together. It's so good.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's so good.

[Chris McMillan]

I know.

[Jill Dunn]

It's so true.

[Carlene Higgins]

Because they. They filmed for a really long time. Right?

[Chris McMillan]

Like.

[Carlene Higgins]

So did you fly there?

[Chris McMillan]

Yes, actually, she was flying here.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

She was coming for her appointments here.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And she had, you know, she was doing Palm Royale, some stuff. So she had. It just worked. Yeah, her schedule worked. And it was about every. She got her haircut about once every five or six weeks.

[Carlene Higgins]

Did you just giggle for hours about the cunty little box?

[Chris McMillan]

Well, she said to me, she came into the salon and she goes, that was just. We didn't expect it. She was like, okay, you did the Rachel, but now you did the cunty little Bob. Because I guess everybody on the show was calling it a cunty little Bob. And I said, hold on. Will you say that to my phone? And Ryan and I posted it, and bam.

[Carlene Higgins]

Viral moment.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. But is there, like, a little flick to us? Tell us more about the cut.

[Chris McMillan]

It's above the hairline. It's that sort of like. Like, there's no safe place. It is an earlobe right below the earlobe in between the jawline Bob. And so it is. But I think the character is really what drives it.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, it's her acting and.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

She really brought that look to life and that character to life. And I know for a fact that Mike Light. That haircut was in his head.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, really?

[Chris McMillan]

Because I have another client that was up for that same part and who didn't get it because she wasn't willing to cut her hair into a short cunty bob.

[Jill Dunn]

That is. That is. I'm just shocked.

[Carlene Higgins]

I feel like that happens all the time.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. It was the hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Whether you don't dye it, you don't want it to be curly.

[Chris McMillan]

The hair was a deal breaker. And Michelle Monahan as a blonde.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Tracy Cunningham killed it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

She looks fantastic.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

They're all aging in reverse. Every one of them. It's amazing.

[Chris McMillan]

Really good.

[Carlene Higgins]

So good.

[Chris McMillan]

I love this moment for Leslie.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Because she's just from popular to Ricky Bobby to, you know, Palm Royale to White Lotus. I think she's having a really Great moment. And she's a great, great girl. And. And to see Sam Rockwell and her be able to be together. And his. His character.

[Jill Dunn]

I know.

[Chris McMillan]

My God.

[Jill Dunn]

I know.

[Carlene Higgins]

Incredible.

[Jill Dunn]

Best show on television.

[Chris McMillan]

It really is. I mean. And also in the salon.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

We get to talk about it. Oh, yeah. Like, who isn't watching it? And every now and then, there's one person like, yeah, I have. I heard it's not good this season.

[Jill Dunn]

What?

[Chris McMillan]

And you're just like.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm so obsessed with Mike White. I want to go back and watch a season of Survivor. Like, that's where I'm at.

[Chris McMillan]

Well, and also, how about Lisa from Blackpink?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

Like, there's so many. Many little Easter eggs and so many of the characters and people. He. He brings them. Yeah. I worked with him on the Good Girl.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, wow.

[Chris McMillan]

And so I've known Mike White for a long time.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

It's not like we're in touch and talking, but we've done the press tour for. For that. And then I did Molly Shannon's. Her sort of clavicle Bob for first season.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And she was like, I need to be rich, and I'm rich, and I have to look. That was my instructions, because they can't really tell me anything about what's gonna happen. It's not like they sent the script to me so that I could like the morning show. I read the scripts.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, absolutely. And so you know what? You know, anytime you're working on a film, you get the script, so the. The vision of the character comes to you.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

There's no. This is on lockdown.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, we need to get some of your tips before we let you go. So what's a haircut you think everyone needs to try at least once?

[Chris McMillan]

A bob?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. At the right length. I really do think everybody should try a bob.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, I don't think short hair is definitely for everybody but I do love a short haircut. I love boy haircuts. Girls.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

I think like Miley Cyrus looked great when I cut all her hair off. I think that's, I think there's like moments when short hair. Linda Evangelista has proven it. Kris Jenner proves it to us every day that it's a power cut. Michelle Williams But I think that like a bob, like whether it's a bob or a cutie little bob I think is a nice, you know, and then it will grow really healthy. A bob is always sort of a solution to really damaged hair or a bad haircut. So it's kind of reboot of sorts. It's sort of a reboot. So at whatever length, whether it's from clavicle or hairline. So I always think it's always, it's kind of a, a foolproof cut.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

What are you feeling for long hair these days?

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, I like for long hair. I'm liking long hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Like you discovered rediscovered extensions or.

[Chris McMillan]

Well, not necessarily. But say someone like you who I see your hair's Up Carlene.

[Jill Dunn]

So it's okay. It's okay. She was blessed with Jill.

[Chris McMillan]

Bu is insane thick hair. And sometimes when you cut it too short, it's harder to deal with. But the longer your hair is, it's actually easier to deal with. So someone like you, where if you were like, I, I want to leave it long, what would you do? I would really, like, contour. Face contour. You face frame. You really cut some long layers around your face. Go in. I wouldn't touch the bottom. That's kind of what I'm doing right now is not even touching the bottom of the hair. No perimeter cutting. Just interior and layering it and letting that sort of organic long hair, that Chloe girl long hair, that Sienna Miller, that Kate Moss, that sort of organic bottom, not that cut perimeter.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

I like that organic bottom. Lately.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's a great, great.

[Jill Dunn]

We're gonna save up some pennies and get you in for.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, no.

[Jill Dunn]

Three to six months from we got you.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, I don.

[Jill Dunn]

Sure, I'll cut it for you.

[Carlene Higgins]

You can cut it for me. It's fine. And I. We did have somebody in our DM saying, what is the. Because I feel like curly. Curly girls kind of get ignored. What is the most current cut that you're feeling for Curly girls? Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Loving a shag.

[Jill Dunn]

That too.

[Chris McMillan]

I love a shag. Don't be afraid to cut it around your face. Don't be afraid to really, like. It's like a curly. Lean into that natural hair and really release your curls and let them flow, fly, and just let them go curly all over. So it's like face contouring, face framing. These are new words. Face contouring. Face framing.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Contouring with your hair.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah, you can contour your face. Why not contour your face?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

With the layers around their face.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, do it. We have, like, I taught a class yesterday, and we have, like, we have our eyes, we have our eyebrows, we have our cheekbones, we have our jaw, we have our necks, we have our clavicle. Like, these are body parts that are sort of Easter eggs of where we let hair land. And I always try to teach people, like, these are land. You know, landing marks for the hair around the face that you can shape. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

What's the best length currently?

[Carlene Higgins]

It's like my consult now.

[Chris McMillan]

I like it. I like your brawn hair. I mean, you could.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you.

[Chris McMillan]

You could have some face contouring layers.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

You could go there. You could definitely play a little bit. Go a little bit shorter. They're gonna grow Out.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Gonna make them healthy.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, it's true, actually. I used to have like that longer bang. I haven't done that in ages.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah. And it's around your cheekbones, around this. Play with it a little.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, right.

[Carlene Higgins]

This is hotly contested on social media. Media side part versus center part in 2025. What are we doing?

[Chris McMillan]

I am doing middle, off center and side.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

All of the above. There's no rules. There's. They are all. Listen, Gucci 1995. Like, you give someone that look, it's amazing. That was a deep side part. Yeah, Middle parts are really cool and 70s vibe and they're super cool. I love of that. Yeah, A little off center is kind of an awesome little take on, you know, like Jennifer is always an off center part.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

She's not a side. She's not a middle. She's an off center. So if you can't make your decision, try an office.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do like Jen. Yeah, Jen does.

[Chris McMillan]

I mean, who doesn't want to look like Jen? Even I, even if I was, I just think I am Jen. I think, I think, like, what would I do to my hair? And she's just sort of like me as a girl.

[Carlene Higgins]

You've spent so much, many days on set and I need to know, like, most recently you did the Gwyneth Paltrow Vanity Fair. Right. What's the number one trick that we can steal from behind the scenes? Like something pros like you always do that we can borrow to make our own hair look killer. Like, I noticed you did a video where you're like, this is what we do behind the scenes. Like when you're taking a photo, you like push it all forward.

[Chris McMillan]

Well, as I always like lean the hair. Well, I mean, it's, it's, it, it all kind of started with Joseph Bear and oh my God, let me just go way back. And he, he used to say, shake your head. Shake your head, darling. So a trick is put your head upside down.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Spray the out of it, throw it up and then pull it from underneath and you have this big lionist mane of hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, it's true.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, so like putting your head upside down and brushing it and spraying it is, is a trick. Trick leaning forward, spraying all the hair and then slowly lifting your head up and then just clearing the face up lightly like that really does. But don't go from behind because all the hair has been pushed forward.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Chris McMillan]

You know, teasing is always a good. You know, you always want to like, like elevate when you're working On a photo shoot, you always want to, like, add a little extra.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. We want to leave some time for a fun little TikTok game. So I'm going to ask you. You were so generous with your time and you shared so much great, like, intimate details, everything. If you were to write a memoir, what would be something that you haven't told anyone about?

[Chris McMillan]

A memoir, first of all, nobody would care.

[Jill Dunn]

I could see it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Disagree.

[Chris McMillan]

Really?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Oh, I don't even think. I think it would be like, I always think, like, I'm going to die and people are really like, oh, yeah, remember him? And then done.

[Jill Dunn]

What? Yeah, no, first it's gonna be like a coffee table book with these amazing haircuts, but also with words.

[Chris McMillan]

A memoir that nobody knows about me. That's kind of a. I, I kind. I. I got the questions and I thought about it. I had a cheeky little answer. But something that they would know is I regret not having kids.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Chris McMillan]

That would be something that would be in my memory. Memoir.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

Definitely.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

As I do. I'm really good with kids and I love kids and all my friends, kids, I, they just, I'm. I'm like a magnet to kids. They just like. I guess I'm like a child myself. And I do definitely regret, but I'm, you know, I was 1983, I turned 18 years old.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Chris McMillan]

And AIDS was this, you know, so I was just dodging. We weren't thinking about having kids and having relationship. We were just dodging, not dying.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Chris McMillan]

So it was a. It was a different era for sure. And so navigating that time and then like the next decade, we were like, Then we. They figured it out. Ish. People were dying, like, so I definitely am like, my biggest regret is not having kids. That would be in a memoir.

[Jill Dunn]

You're so. If that's like, honest and I love intimate and just like give your heart into everything and. And you've really done that today. And I just, I'm so thankful.

[Carlene Higgins]

And I also want to say, I don't think. Think that's. It's too late. Robert Dairo. Hello. Cohen. Yeah, he's, you know, got. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying, Chris, that could be.

[Jill Dunn]

There was.

[Carlene Higgins]

That chapter could be left out.

[Chris McMillan]

Works out well.

[Carlene Higgins]

We'll see.

[Chris McMillan]

Who knows?

[Carlene Higgins]

This is your baby.

[Chris McMillan]

Yeah, this is my baby right now.

[Jill Dunn]

This is going to bring in some nanny money.

[Chris McMillan]

You guys. You guys will be getting. Of course. Like, we can't wait to share.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah, I can't wait to try it.

[Chris McMillan]

Thank you for having me.

[Carlene Higgins]

This has been a joy. Thank you so much. It's been an honor. We've always wanted to meet you and to get to spend this much time with you is nice.

[Chris McMillan]

Thank you. You guys are really sweet and we're.

[Carlene Higgins]

Going to do a fun little exclusive Tik Tok with Chris, so be sure to check out our Tik Tok page as well. Thank you so much.

[Chris McMillan]

Of course.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you.

[Chris McMillan]

Thank you.

[Jill Dunn]

Thanks for listening. You you can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail].

[Carlene Higgins]

While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a.

[Jill Dunn]

Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast and did you know.

[Carlene Higgins]

We also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast Podcast Chat Room.

[Jill Dunn]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.

[Carlene Higgins]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Jill Dunn]

See you. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.