How-To Address Your Hair Thinning Woes with Advice From a Board-Certified Trichologist and a Celebrity Hairstylist

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast: Addressing Hair Thinning with Expert Insights

Episode Title: How-To Address Your Hair Thinning Woes with Advice From a Board-Certified Trichologist and a Celebrity Hairstylist
Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Release Date: April 9, 2025

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I. Introduction to Hair Thinning

In this illuminating episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins delve deep into the pervasive issue of hair thinning. Recognizing the seasonal increase in hair shedding during spring and fall, they set the stage for an in-depth conversation aimed at helping listeners achieve a healthier scalp and fuller hair.

II. Meeting the Experts: Adam Livermore and Penny James

The hosts recount their visit to Orbe's Academy in New York, where they met Adam Livermore, Orbe's global artist who has worked with celebrities like Cher, Tilda Swinton, Jennifer Lawrence, and Naomi Campbell. Alongside Adam was Penny James, a board-certified trichologist and founder of the Penny James Salon Trichology Center. Their combined expertise provides a comprehensive perspective on hair health.

Notable Quote:
Jill Dunn (01:19): “That's why I think that's what came up to a lot more.”

III. Rising Trend of Hair Thinning

Jill and Carlene discuss observations from industry professionals who report an uptick in hair thinning cases among women. They highlight factors such as chronic stress and the lingering effects of the pandemic, which have contributed to conditions like telogen effluvium—a form of rapid, sudden hair shedding.

Notable Quote:
Carlene Higgins (08:13): “So, you know, when you're very young, to start losing your hair is extremely frightening.”

IV. Identifying Early Signs of Hair Thinning

Penny James emphasizes the importance of early detection in preventing extensive hair loss. Using a dermascope—a handheld device that magnifies the scalp up to 200 times—she demonstrates how subtle signs of thinning can be identified before they become alarming.

Notable Quote:
Carlene Higgins (16:57): “I did not know that. So that's how we could really tell that.”

V. Factors Contributing to Hair Thinning

The discussion explores various causes of hair thinning, including:

• Chronic Stress: Leading to telogen effluvium.
• Hard Water: Calcium and magnesium salts can dry out hair, especially in those with coily or curly textures.
• Nutrient Deficiencies: Low levels of vitamin D, iron, and B12 are linked to different forms of alopecia.
• Aggressive Styling: Damage from heat and harsh styling tools can weaken hair strands.

Notable Quote:
Penny James (29:12): “In general, so it just. It can really dry out the hair. But on the whole, though, will hard water make your hair fall out? No.”

VI. Solutions and Treatments

Orbe’s Densifying Collection vs. Minoxidil

Orbe's new densifying collection, developed in collaboration with Penny James, offers a luxury alternative to traditional treatments like minoxidil. The three-product regimen—shampoo, conditioner, and a leave-in spray—utilizes ingredients such as Redensyl and Copixil that have shown efficacy comparable to minoxidil in clinical studies.

Notable Quote:
Jill Dunn (35:42): “It has been FDA cleared, it's been proven to, you know, suppress hair loss.”

Rosemary Oil and Other Natural Remedies

While rosemary oil is praised for its anti-inflammatory and astringent properties, Penny James clarifies that it supports scalp health but doesn't directly regrow hair. Proper usage involves applying and then washing it off to prevent scalp issues.

Notable Quote:
Penny James (31:05): “Rosemary oil is a great astringent and it is a fantastic anti-inflammatory properties. There's no question about that.”

VII. Professional Treatments

Microneedling and Scalp Massagers

Adam Livermore shares his personal journey with hair transplants, emphasizing the significance of combining medical treatments like minoxidil with professional procedures. Microneedling is highlighted for its role in stimulating growth factors through controlled scalp micro-injuries, enhancing overall scalp health.

Notable Quote:
Whitney Port (44:37): “When we do it for the face, it's I think mostly about collagen induction. When you do it on the scalp, you get a cascade of healing and growth factors.”

Scalp Derma Rollers and Massagers

Penny James advocates for the use of scalp derma rollers to complement topical treatments, cautioning against improper use that could lead to infections. Additionally, scalp massagers are recommended to boost circulation and support hair growth.

Notable Quote:
Penny James (45:28): “Just think about pressing the little handheld brush onto the scalp and then gently sort of massaging.”

VIII. Hairstyling Tips for Thinning Hair

Adam Livermore offers practical advice for individuals experiencing hair thinning:

• Opt for Shorter Hairstyles: Avoid compensating for missing density with excessive length to prevent unnatural looks like comb-overs.
• Use Volumizing Products: Techniques such as using root touch-up sprays or volumizing powders can create the illusion of fuller hair.
• Choose the Right Haircuts: Styles that add volume and minimize the appearance of thinning areas are ideal.

Notable Quote:
Adam Livermore (46:46): “I think shorter is better.”

IX. Conclusion and Resources

The episode wraps up with hosts encouraging listeners to seek professional help at the first signs of hair thinning. Penny James offers resources through her trichology center and emphasizes the availability of support groups for those grappling with hair loss.

Notable Quote:
Penny James (49:12): “Don't be embarrassed. There's lots and lots of resources.”

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Key Takeaways:

• Early Detection is Crucial: Recognizing the initial signs of hair thinning can lead to more effective interventions.
• Comprehensive Approach: Combining topicals like Orbe’s densifying collection with professional treatments can yield better results than relying solely on traditional methods like minoxidil.
• Lifestyle Factors Matter: Stress management, proper nutrition, and careful hair care practices play significant roles in maintaining hair health.
• Personalization is Key: Solutions should be tailored to individual hair types and specific causes of hair thinning.

For those experiencing hair thinning, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge from industry experts, actionable tips, and encouragement to take proactive steps towards healthier hair.

Transcript

[Dear Media]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty, the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hello and welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast. I'm your host, Carlene Higgins, and I'm here with my beauty bestie, Jill Dunn. Hello, Jill.

[Jill Dunn]

Hey, Carlene. So spring has sprung and welcome everybody to the podcast all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty coming at you every single Wednesday. Have y'all heard of the seasonal shed? Apparently we experience more hair shedding in the spring and the fall months. I mean, it's like we're shedding skin, we're shedding our winter sweaters. Kind of makes sense, I guess.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, that explains what's happening to my snake skin legs, you know. So on that note though, the topic of the hour is hair shedding and how to get your healthiest scalp ever. And we had the great privilege of being invited to Orbe's Academy in New York to meet up with Adam Livermore. He's the global artist for Orbe, along with Penny James. She's a board certified trichologist and founder of the Penny James Salon Trichology center in New York.

[Jill Dunn]

That's right. It was a pleasure meeting both of them and Penny, by the way. Everyone. She brought a key piece of technology to our meeting and it was actually this thing called a dermascope. And it's, it kind of looks like a wand that has a really like a halo light at the end of it. It's handheld and it magnifies up to 200 times. So Penny could hold this wand in her hand pointed at her scalps, and then on a screen that was at her stylist station, we could watch her look at our scalp. Yes, it was kind of a crazy thing to see.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, the flakes have never been larger. Let me tell. And I for one confirmed a fear that I've been having for the past couple of years, which is that my hair is indeed thinning. I'll not forget that moment. Penny was able to show me with my own eyes that at the back of my head near the nape, I have two strands on average growing from each follicle. Apparently the norm is two to four from each follicle. But in the front, where you tend to see hair thinning first, I have only one hair growing out of each follicle. So that was a real wake up call, let me tell you. And very cool. Orbe has just launched an extension of its best selling serene scalp line with a New densifying collection. This is the three product regimen that was scientifically formulated in collaboration with Penny James using her trichologist prowess to make thinning strands look and feel thicker and healthier with consistent use.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, and the before and afters were pretty wild. And of course, Orbe, they're always bringing that luxury moment with the beautiful, sleek purple bottles for this collection. But it really has that science behind it because their active ingredients, they kind of stacked them up against the gold standard for hair thinning, which is minoxidil, which is the ingredient you would find in like a Rogaine.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

So I was, I would. Color me impressed. I was like, hashtag damn good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah, right away. Independent clinical trials, by the way. But I've been using it personally ever since. I really do love this line. So there's a serene scalp densifying shampoo and conditioner along with a leave in densifying treatment spray. I like that. It's so simple. You don't have to do like a pre this or a pre that. And you're going to hear all about that from both Penny and Adam, who, by the way, has worked with Cher, Tilda Swinton, Jennifer Lawrence, Naomi Campbell. And he's personally experienced hair thinning. He in fact has had not one, but two hair transplants. And like his hair is back. You would never know. So he shares that experience like firsthand. What? What that's like what he did that didn't work the first time. What has worked the second time? So, yeah, it's like a fully 360 episode where we're all sharing our experiences.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, just like therapy. Yeah, exactly. Hair therapy. But it was a really fascinating conversation. I loved this duo, honestly. And you're gonna hear just ahead about the root causes of hair thinning. And we to the bottom of questions like, does hard water play a part? What about medications? And when do you know that it's time to seek out a professional? Plus, we're going to get into solutions. If there's any household items like rosemary oil, do those do anything? And finally, is there a hairstyle or quick fix that we can do to help, you know, our hair even appear a little bit fuller? Nuuly is one of our show partners this week. So Nuuly is a subscription clothing rental service and for just $98 a month, it's amazing what you get. You get six styles. Choose whatever you want from thousands of styles for more than 400 brands. And there's inclusive sizing up to 5x as well as petite and Maternity, you get fast free shippings and returns and professional cleaning in newly state of the art laundering facility. No laundry for you to worry about and you get the option to buy what you love at a discount and I really appreciate that. Nuuly has everything you need to bring your closet up to speed for the season without breaking the bank. So you can try new styles, sizes and trends without committing or breaking the bank. And it's really fun honestly, because they have these edits on their website like there's horse girl chic, there's wedding party guest dresses, there's C suite edits. So really when you're feeling stuck, it can inspire you to try something new with Nuuly. And it's flexible. There's no fees, late fees, damage fees or fees to pause or cancel. So it's no big deal if you lose a button or spill something or you just want to take a break. And Nuuly is great value at 98amonth for any six styles. But right now you can get $28 off your first month of Nuuly. When you sign up with the code beauty, just go to Nuuly.com that's spelled n u u l y.com that's Nuuly with two use and enter the code beauty and sign up to get 28 off your first month. That's N U-L Y.com newly with two use with code BEAUTY newly subscription clothing rental change your clothes will link to the software in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Whitney Port]

Hey guys, I'm Whitney Port and this is With Wit. A lot of you may know me.

[Dear Media]

From reality tv and the reality is.

[Whitney Port]

A lot's happened since the Hills With.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wit is dedicated to having real, raw and occasionally ridiculous conversations with the people.

[Dear Media]

Who have had a profound impact on me. Because on With Wit, very little is off limits. Subscribe so you don't miss any of the amazing conversations to come.

[Whitney Port]

New episodes of With Wit are available.

[Carlene Higgins]

Every Tuesday on all platforms. Welcome to the show. Adam and Penny, we're so happy to have you here. Hello.

[Whitney Port]

Hi. Thrilled to be here.

[Jill Dunn]

So a hairstylist we had on the show recently remarked that in his 20 plus year career, he's noticed that more and more women than ever are experiencing hair thinning these days. So do you think that's true from what y'all are seeing in your chair?

[Whitney Port]

I definitely see it, yes. Like, more than ever.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

And I think there are probably a lot of reasons for it. Chronic stress is a big one. I think a Lot of us in various parts of the world and in this country are experiencing chronic stress. The pandemic was a big one.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

A lot of telogen, effluvium, like around that time, which is what?

[Jill Dunn]

So, telogen, what does that mean?

[Whitney Port]

Rapid sudden shedding.

[Jill Dunn]

Got it.

[Whitney Port]

It's like you kind of molt.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

And it's very distressing. So I'm definitely seeing it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you see it, Penny, what about you?

[Dear Media]

I do, definitely.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Because you were a hairstylist before.

[Dear Media]

I was, yes, Yes. I even worked for Orbe personally.

[Jill Dunn]

Personally, The Orbe.

[Dear Media]

The Orbe. Yes, I did.

[Carlene Higgins]

Incredible.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. So you saw maybe more. You're sharing more thinning now than you have ever.

[Dear Media]

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, that's what brought me into. I became a trichologist because it was just so prevalent. So many people were losing their hair, and now it seems to be more prevalent than ever.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I thought it was interesting we were chatting yesterday about who your clientele is, which honestly surprised me, so maybe you could share. Share with the class.

[Dear Media]

Absolutely. My clients are mostly under 25. Unbelievable.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. Yeah. I definitely thought it would have been an older demographic.

[Dear Media]

No, most people think. They think, oh, you're losing your hair. Right. Okay. So you've sort of gone through menopause and you're just. You're old and you're still, you know, you're like, oh, great. Thanks. Yes. And of course, you know, we do lose our hair when we get older. That's natural. But it's not natural when you're under 25 to be losing your hair. It's frightening, it's alarming. And it really starts affecting your sense of self worth. Like, who are you? We identify ourselves with our hair.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Dear Media]

So, you know, when you're very young, to start losing your hair is extremely frightening.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what's the male to female ratio?

[Dear Media]

About 30% of my clients are young gentlemen.

[Carlene Higgins]

And. And 70% are young women.

[Dear Media]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

So majority really are young women under 25.

[Dear Media]

Correct.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. But I also will say maybe I'm wrong, but I think women are more apt to act and do something. They would come to make an appointment to see you versus young men.

[Dear Media]

Maybe I'm wrong, but, yes, I think you're right there. And also older than that. So Gen Z and Gen X are really sort of. They're online, they're great researchers, where anything older than that, you think, well, you know what? I'm going to pop along to see my dermatologist, where I come in on a very homeopathic Approach. I'm not a medical doctor, so a lot of people older would want to see, well, let's see what my derm has to say, and then they come and see me if they're not happy with that approach, with that solution.

[Jill Dunn]

Correct. Got it.

[Carlene Higgins]

And, Adam, so this has actually happened to you because you mentioned this yesterday. And again, if you're listening, you're walking right now. You're listening to the podcast. You can't see Adam, but Adam has a great head of red hair, and it's quite long. It's like, just above shoulder length. But you were saying yesterday that there was a time where you had no hair down the center of your head. Is that right?

[Whitney Port]

Yeah, yeah. I was really bald. I was like, if people know about this, like, the Norwood scale. I got to, like, 5A on the Norwood scale, which, to give a visual would be sort of like, like what Prince William is now. Strong sides and not much on top. Almost nothing on top. You know, it's been a whole journey of reversing it, which I have done using lots of different things.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

But Penny said something interesting about how our hair is such a strong part of our identity, and I didn't want to lose that. I wanted to stay in control of it. So I took steps to restore my hair and reverse the hair loss, and I'm happy I did. I'm enjoying my hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, I'm going to ask the question because I know our listeners are like, wait, what did you do? You put hair where there previously was no hair. So we have to ask, what steps did you take that actually worked?

[Whitney Port]

I did a lot. So I have had two rounds of FUE hair transplants. That's, like, probably the biggest intervention that I've taken. And part of why I had to do it twice is because I made a mistake after the first one. I didn't take on, like, the medical interventions like Rogaine, Minoxidil, prp. And so, you know, I had androgenic alopecia, male pattern balding. And it progresses.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

So I had my front hairline done and had beautiful, successful work done, and then it progressed. So five years later, I had my little hairline and nothing behind it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, so you had to go back again.

[Whitney Port]

So I went. Had another round at that point.

[Jill Dunn]

What did you call it? Fue.

[Whitney Port]

Fue Follicular Unit Extraction. Oh, so you may have heard of, like, what they call the strip method. Fut.

[Jill Dunn]

No.

[Whitney Port]

Which is. So there are different methods of doing hair transplants. The one that I had is where you have, like individual grafts.

[Jill Dunn]

Got it.

[Whitney Port]

Instead of taking a bigger part of the scalp and sort of breaking that down into grafts. Just different techniques.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

So I happen to have fue. And for the second round, by that point, everybody was talking about Istanbul. So I did go to Istanbul.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my goodness.

[Whitney Port]

There are pros and cons to Turkish transplants, plants.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

The biggest pro is probably the. It's a lot cheaper. That's the thing that everybody talks about.

[Dear Media]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

They have great technology, great, you know, doctors, great practitioners, and it's just cheaper. The biggest con for me is the design aesthetic, the way they like hairlines to look. And I'm generalizing, but I think this is fair. Is not very natural.

[Jill Dunn]

I see.

[Whitney Port]

They like it very straight, very symmetrical, very dense.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

So I had already had my hairline done and they wanted to fix it, quote, unquote.

[Jill Dunn]

I see.

[Whitney Port]

And I said, we're not doing that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right, right.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, at least speak up because you're a hairstylist also. You know what hairstylist has entered the chat.

[Whitney Port]

Yeah, yeah, yes. Hair transplants. I do take minoxidil and finasteride.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

And lately I'm on the orbe densifying and I love it. That was like the last layer of support and protection that really made my hair feel stable.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. So it's like a 360 approach. And we're gonna talk about this line a little bit later. But Penny, how do you know when it's time to go in, get professional help? Like, what is normal hair shedding? What's a visual cue that it's time?

[Dear Media]

That's a great question. I think, what would we sometimes ignore that there's more hair in the drain, there's more hair in our brush. But then we start looking in the mirror and you think, mm, wait a minute, the top of I can see my scalp. What' and that's when you're thinking, well, wait a minute, now I've got. Oh, yes, yes, there's more hair in my brush. There's more hair on the drain. I can see hair on my clothes. And so I think that's when you start thinking about it. And then you sort of life gets in the way. And then you think, oh, I'll be fine. You know, let me just part my hair differently. Part my hair differently. Let me go on Reddit. Let me Google, you know, and then it's like, let's try, you know, all kinds of lotions, potions, snake oil and what have you. And then it's race off to me 100 miles an hour and then sit in my chair. And they're quite frightened. You know, like, I've been really losing my hair. I don't know what to do. What's caused this? So that's why I would say that's what. When you first start noticing that there is more hair in the brush and there is more hair in the drain, that's when you think to, okay, why? What's happening here? And it is helpful when you see a trichologist. Come. We are an approach on a very homopathic level, so we can sort of like. Well, I like to say. I like to do some detective work. You know, what's going on. Exactly. So we can pinpoint what's caused this and how we can correct it.

[Jill Dunn]

Right, right. So you're basically saying if. If your spidey sense is going off that you have more hair showing up in the drain or whatever, it's like, don't wait.

[Dear Media]

Correct.

[Jill Dunn]

Go and see a derm or you or whatever.

[Dear Media]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And hopefully it's a quite a quick fix if you catch it very early.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, so early intervention is better?

[Dear Media]

Yes, it is. Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. Yeah, that's good.

[Carlene Higgins]

I thought it was interesting having an analysis done with you yesterday where you. You put my scalp and Jill's scalp under the. What do you call it?

[Dear Media]

Derm Scope.

[Carlene Higgins]

The Derm scope.

[Jill Dunn]

So picture this, guys. It's like a magnifying mirror that is. It's seeing every single. Like, I don't know how small it is or how much it's magnifying.

[Dear Media]

200 times.

[Jill Dunn]

200 times on your scalp with a light on it, everyone. Yeah, I don't know if I ever need to see it again, but, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It'S a little frightening, but it is amazing to be able to see. See up close what you're talking about, because otherwise it's a bit subjective. Right. Am I thinning? Am I not thinning? And the way that I noticed is I was creating content, video content, and I was bending over, and as I was editing, I could see gaps in my hair that I couldn't notice. Just looking straight ahead. When I was looking at the derm scope, you were able to show me that there were certain areas in the front where there was just one hair coming out of the follicle. And out of the back, there were two hairs coming out of the follicle, which I didn't know. It's normal to have two hairs come out of a follicle.

[Dear Media]

One to four out of a follicle.

[Carlene Higgins]

One to four.

[Dear Media]

Wow. Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. I did not know that. So that's how we could really tell that. Yes, I'm having thinning in the front to be able to see that. So that was amazing. The other thing you said to us yesterday, that I was like, pardon me, is when you said that our follicles can smell and taste.

[Dear Media]

Oh, I know. And that's Professor Pals, who's actually. Yeah. Ralph Pals is a. Is a scientist in hair research and he had discovered that our follicles can actually. Yes. Taste and smell. So the key is, now all scientists are doing is sort of like feeding our follicles to see, well, do you like this taste? Do you like this smell? Is this what's going to stimulate you to grow? Because I think what is most frustrating for most scientists and most dermatologists anyone in the medical field is why is our follicle dormant? We have a hair growth cycle, anagen, catagen and telogen, and it's constantly growing in a cycle like this for our whole life. And, you know, our anagen stage, which is our growing stage, can last up to seven years. Catagen is resting, telogen falling out. So we want to have a better understanding. Why is it that the hair has gone through this natural cycle, it's now gone into the telogen cycle, so it's fallen out. Why is it just sitting dormant? Why is it we're not being able to stimulate it to come back into the antigen cycle? The follicle's not dead. Yeah, that's not always in some. All cases, but that's predominantly. What. What is. Why is it not being stimulated? And hence that's why we're doing all these tests of, like, what. What's going to stimulate it? What smell and taste can sort of like activate the follicles.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And I, I thought it was interesting too. When you're giving a consultation to myself and to Carlene, it was like you're starting with questions that are like, almost like you, from a doctor. What are your hormone levels? Like, can you talk us through how you would come to your analysis? Yeah, somebody beyond the derm scope first.

[Dear Media]

I always want to make sure that the person just feels very comfortable and safe in my setting, you know, that's the most important. It's very private. You're sitting in a very private setting and, and you're not obliged to share your. Your blood work. Surely, you know, nobody is. I mean, I don't ever pretend that I've got MD after my name. I don't. But it's very helpful for me to have an understanding what is going on because, for example, we'll use telogen effluvium, which we were just talking about earlier, which is. Which is a chronic hair shedding. It means to say the hair starts off in anagen stage, it's merrily growing, and then catapults into telogen. It's falling out again, and it just goes in this cycle. So we end up with these sort of like tufty hairs and then long spindly hairs on the bottom where you're thinking, I'm desperately trying to grow my hair, but it's. It only sort of getting to, you know, about 4 inches off my scalp and it just seems to fall back out. That's classic telogen effluvium. We want and understand why that's happening, and that's why it's interesting. It's important for me to be able to look at the blood work to know what's going on with if there's a D deficiency, which is very prevalent across the planet. Yes, most people are D deficient. And that is relatable to telogen effluvium, Androgenetic alopecia, female, female pattern hair loss and all the androgen. And also alopecia areata is linked to low vitamin D. And I could only determine that if I can see that. If it's what we call flags. It's really easy. When you get your blood results and you're looking at. You're thinking, well, I don't know what all this is about. Anything that's red, that's flagged in red means, oh, something's up, gotta look at this.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Dear Media]

Yeah, exactly. And nine times out of 10, your doctor will call you and say, oh, XYZ's flagged in red.

[Jill Dunn]

Your iron, your vitamin D, your B12.

[Dear Media]

Whatever, you know, whatever your panel says, you know. But for a trichologist, I obviously don't read your entire panel. I only pertain what is strictly towards what could have caused hair loss. And that's just one example.

[Carlene Higgins]

What are some other main culprits of hair loss? So you mentioned vitamin D. Yes. What are some other ones people might not be aware of? Whether it's hair products or tools or medications.

[Dear Media]

It's great that I have a hairdressing background. I've got over 30 years of the industry behind me. So I will know instantly when somebody's hair's burnt, for example, and they're saying, no, no, my hair's breaking off and I've got Some kind of deficiency. We need to do an analysis on my hair. And I can see immediately as an expert, no, actually, it's aggressive styling techniques that's caused this for your hair to be burnt off. That's one element which I can see automatically just by touching the hair. In general, could there be a deform of what's going on with the hair? Yes, it could be. And that's for me to pick up as well, trichology purposes to sort of analyse what's actually going on along the hair shaft itself. And then we've also got forms of deficiency. So whether the person's vegan, for example, and, you know, their B12 is very low, their iron, their ferritin level's very low. So that would cause, again, a telogen effluvium, which can be corrected. These are corrective measures that can be taken into place that can be easily corrected and someone like myself can easily help that person correct these patterns. And hopefully your listeners will find like, oh, wait a minute, I do that. Yeah, I can correct this.

[Whitney Port]

Penny mentioned something a moment ago that was interesting.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

A lot of people have hair breakage that they confuse with hair loss.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

Two different situations with different solutions. So oftentimes, like I try to point out to my clients, like those little short hairs that you see inside your hair, if the end of it is pointed like a needle, that's new growth, it's not breakage.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

And that could indicate rapidly cycling hair. It could indicate that something's going on. That's more of a hair loss thing versus a damage or breakage thing.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right. Which would have more of a blunt end to the strand.

[Whitney Port]

It's just broken. You'll see it. It's just broken, Fried.

[Dear Media]

Yeah. Frayed.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right, right.

[Dear Media]

And it's usually in clumps. Our hair's a fiber, so we've got to be careful with it.

[Whitney Port]

So you would never want to go into like, soaking wet hair with round brush and a blow dryer.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

Rough dry at first, get 90% of that water out of there, so it's just damp to the touch. Then you can get your products in there, protection treatments, all that stuff, styling, all that, and then it'll be faster and easier.

[Dear Media]

I'm not a fan of metal brushes at all. And if your listeners today are, you know, use metal brushes, and they're thinking, right, yeah, you know what, this sounds familiar. My hair has been breaking off. I can almost guarantee you it's because of those metal brushes. And there are an array of brushes out There. Orbee has an amazing set of brushes.

[Carlene Higgins]

I love their brushes.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, they're so nice.

[Dear Media]

They're wonderful. And it's a little investment. But you know what? It's your hair. It's worth it.

[Carlene Higgins]

This episode is brought to you in part by Tiny Lux. So news flash everyone. Not only can you have sensitive skin on your face and also on your scalp, you can also have sensitive skin on your ears. I know, I've experienced that for years. And Tiny Lux is on a mission to make accessorizing comfortable with their cult favorite earrings for sensitive ears. I just discovered these. It's an entire line of earrings made with pure titanium, which is one of the only metals that actually works for sensitive ears. And I learned the reason why when we interviewed the founder of Tiny Lux, who will be on our show next week. She's really kind of revolutionizing the jewelry industry and trying to get a place for Tiny Lux earrings. Actually even in the aisles of Sephora, which is fascinating. You gotta hear her out. They have everything from tiny stackable earrings to special occasion statement earrings. And they also have over 125000 happy customers and counting that swear by their earrings. They say they're life changing and they are always repurchasing for more. They say once you go Tiny Lux, you don't go back. I really enjoy wearing them because I'm one of those people that that when I go to an event, I am taking out my earrings in the Uber on the way home. I can't stand the way they feel. My ears and Tiny Lux just feels to me like there's nothing on. They're so incredibly lightweight. I wore them for every single interview. Last time we went to la, I got these hoops with little kind of diamante gemstones in it. They went with everything. They were kind of like that 80s back again earring. I love them. They don't tarnish and they're waterproof, all of the things. If you want to check it out for yourself, visit tinylux.com and use code BEAUTY at checkout for 20 off your first purchase. That's T-I-N-I-L-U X.com Use code BEAUTY for 20 off your first order.

[Jill Dunn]

Honey Love is one of our show partners this week. We all know that a great outfit starts with a great foundation and I am a big fan of wearing shapewear shorts underneath summer dresses and skirts. It honestly just makes me feel so much more confident. And I need to share with you how different the Honey Love's best selling superpower short is is because let me tell you, I've tried a lot of shapewear shorts on the market, and a lot of them roll down. They're not comfortable, but these ones really stay put and they really work with your curves and not against them. And whether you're attending a wedding or if you're going to a bridal shower, a bachelor party, or just hitting the patio for a brunch with your girlfriends, you definitely are going to want to check out Honey Love as sort of the starting point for your outfit. It Honey Love uses targeted compression to sculpt and smooth where you want it and ease off where you don't. Plus it has flexible boning in the side seams of the super Power short, so that prevents it from rolling up or down. I really hate that adjusting moment when you're in public. They just stay put and that's what you need them to do. Just be reliable. And I love that they're really seamless. You can't tell that you're wearing them at all. So they feel discreet and you feel supported, and I absolutely love that up. So here's the best part. For a limited time, you can get Honey love on sale. Save 20 off your entire order with our exclusive link honeylove.com beauty support the show and start your spring off right by checking them [e-mail] beauty and after you purchase, they'll ask where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you experience the new standard in shapewear with with Honey Love. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show. Adam, I did want to ask you because I feel like this comes up a lot on TikTok about how do you know if you have hard water or not?

[Whitney Port]

Here in New York, for example, we have very good tap water. We have like Catskill mountain water. But it's not like that everywhere. And as a global educator, I travel around and work in different markets and I'm definitely in places sometimes. I was just in Brisbane last fall, Australia, and we work with several models who were all incredible and great and all had really damaged hair.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, really?

[Whitney Port]

And it was about the sun and the beach and the water. A water softener makes the water feel better and probably sort of filters it a little bit. But I also don't really like what soft water does to hair.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. What does it do?

[Whitney Port]

Well, it softens it, which isn't. It's not too flat, then it's not great for everybody.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

Like, for people with curly hair like me, my hair's straight today, but I have, like, naturally 3A curls. Very curly. I can tell by how my curls act if I'm in soft water. And you need different products, products that would normally put a cast on curly hair with soft water. Doesn't happen.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, interesting.

[Whitney Port]

It changes the way products work.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it's funny you say, because I do like my hair when I wash it in New York better than in Toronto. I swear.

[Jill Dunn]

That's amazing.

[Whitney Port]

It could be just our municipal water system has, like, less. There's less of a need to correct it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

So it's just a little more natural.

[Carlene Higgins]

So does hard water contribute to hair thinning?

[Dear Media]

Well, there have been some more studies done on this, and the new studies, because of the calcium magnesium salts that I have that are in the hard water, it can lead to hair loss, and that is more prevalent with people with a kinky, coily hair texture. You know, very, very tight coils, because it's difficult for the water molecules to actually penetrate all the way down. And when it does, the hair naturally is quite dry.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Dear Media]

In general, so it just. It can really dry out the hair. But on the whole, though, will hard water make your hair fall out? No. I suppose it's sort of like, depending on your hair type. Could it make the hair fall out? So yes and no, I guess, is the answer.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay, interesting. Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

Shower head filters are not a bad idea.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

That's more like removing things from the water than, like, a water softener which adds things to the water.

[Jill Dunn]

I see. I see. Yeah. Yeah. So it's filtering out the.

[Dear Media]

Yeah, the salts. Yeah, the calcium salts.

[Jill Dunn]

I do know one editor who used to work with Carlene at Flare, and she's very fine hair, like, and she was talking about how, like, the T3 shower head.

[Dear Media]

Oh, it's great. It is, yes.

[Jill Dunn]

She was like, it was the only thing that made a difference and made her hair have a bit of volume. It didn't matter previously what shampoo and stuff she used. And I was like, oh, that's really fascinating. And it seems like kind of like a pain to even install it and do all of that, but I think it actually make a difference.

[Whitney Port]

And for the sake of hair color, too, especially blondes, if there are, like, metallics in the water.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

Deposit on your hair, you'll see it. Yeah, it's not good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Let's talk about the difference makers now. It's all over TikTok Rosemary oil. Even some derms have recommended it. Is that something that that you would promote at your trichology center, Penny, or not?

[Dear Media]

Well, interestingly enough, Orbe's densifying collection in the densifying spray actually has rosemary extract in it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Dear Media]

And we have white nettle and we have sage. So we have sort of leaned into sort of a plant extract. So like the phytonutrients element of what's going to be stimulating. We've also got peppermint in, especially spearmint in there too. So it's nice and refreshing in the spray. Yes, some can be extremely helpful definitely. And I, you know, do work with oils. Can rosemary oil regrow your hair? Rosemary oil is a great astringent and it is a fantastic anti inflammatory properties. There's no question about that. Is it going to regrow your hair? Well, I mean, I'm sorry, I don't think so. I mean yes, I think it would take maybe it could like help the microbiome on your scalp and then help, you know, the follicles sort of be, you know, just stay nice and healthy. But it's not going to actually grow your hair.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Dear Media]

And also I think a lot of people misread that they should just leave this rosemary oil which has been mixed with lord knows what else on their scalp and then they end up with scalp issues. So you know, if you're going to put oils on the scalp, you know, sure, leave them on for an hour and then jump in the shower and shampoo these oils off.

[Carlene Higgins]

So the go to for many years has been minoxidil, is that right?

[Dear Media]

It has been, it's been FDA cleared, it's been proven to, you know, suppress hair loss. It keeps the hair in what's known as the anagen stage a lot longer. So what it does is when it's a chemical that uniforms all your hair into anagen stage so it stops the cycle, the growth cycle, it slows that growth cycle down. And that's when people first start it, they get quite frightened because there's a big shed to explain all that. What that chemical's doing is it's unifying all your hair. Also a lot of people have a tendency of like, you know, using a lot of it because it's often in a foam form and it's very difficult to apply. Minoxidil spreads across the scalp too, so you don't need very much of it either.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. So you use it in the shower and that is considered a drug.

[Dear Media]

You don't use it in the shower. It's like actually after the shower or you would apply. You'd buy other small drops or you would apply the mousse. It's, you know, 5% is what you can buy in the duane read. I mean, so the equivalent of what in Canada? Exactly. And you can buy it over the counter. You don't need a prescription. Anything higher than 5%, like 7%, 8%, you would need a prescription.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. And they do offer that by prescription or not. Kind of like Chattanooin versus.

[Dear Media]

And also there's oral minoxidil these days as well. But I mean that's something that you would have to. If you've got heart problems, you know, please do not just go on to some sort of like bogus website and go order yourself oral minoxidil. Please make sure that you are a good candidate for it.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

Because there are some drawbacks too. We were talking about, like some people experience hair growth on their face.

[Dear Media]

You know, there are side effects. You know, contact dermatitis is one of them. For women, maybe you don't want unwanted hair on your face. They are the side effects with oral and top and topical minoxidil.

[Whitney Port]

Yeah, well, I did get that side effect, by the way.

[Carlene Higgins]

You did.

[Whitney Port]

I take oral minoxidil and it did make my body a little.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

Which I don't care. It also makes my beard and eyebrows better.

[Jill Dunn]

So. Right.

[Whitney Port]

You know, pros and cons. I can imagine certain people would really have an issue with more hair on their body. And it is. So oral is not approved by the FDA for hair loss. It's prescribed off label a lot because it's old school and understood and everything, but was originally developed as an anti hypertensive just to Penny's point. Just to reinforce that point. If you're gonna take the oral, you have to be careful. Like if you have heart issues or blood pressure issues, it may not be a good idea.

[Jill Dunn]

Check with your doctor.

[Dear Media]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Whitney Port]

And you have to get it prescribed anyway.

[Jill Dunn]

So you do. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

So it was really cool yesterday that we were introduced to the Oribe Serene scalp densifying range and we were. We're gonna ask you about this now, the main ingredients and how it actually works, how it's different from what else is on the market.

[Jill Dunn]

It.

[Carlene Higgins]

But I'd love for you to talk about the clinical trials that compared some of those ingredients to minoxidil.

[Dear Media]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Because I think that's very cool. It's such a great like new option. Especially if you're somebody like me who's a bit bougie and probably wouldn't Want to use Rogaine for women.

[Jill Dunn]

She's got a compliance issue. I'll call it out.

[Carlene Higgins]

Can you make it luxury?

[Dear Media]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

It needs to come in a very chic, you know, packaging, which this does tell us everything.

[Dear Media]

You are in the right place. I help create the line because I have hair loss myself. Like what Adam shared, I too have hair loss. I've got very, very fine, fragile hair. So the studies actually that were done, aside from the densifying collection, was a group of panelists were split into 50. 50 in half were asked to use 5% topical minoxidil and the other half were asked to use redensyl and capixel. Now both of those are compounds.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Dear Media]

And those were two compounds together. And they were asked to use this topically for two months. And the results came back very favorable to the panelists that used the copixial and redensyl over the minoxidil.5%, which I was so excited when I read this and I couldn't wait to chat with the Orbe's leading science team and they said, oh yeah. And we're actually combining these into our products and we're also adding pea sprout protein. Now I think what sort of leads the charge here with Orbe utilizing these more. More homopath sort of as she sort of fetonutrients in. In their product range is the fact that there's zero side effects. Where just as we were talking about with minoxidil there's all these side effects. Yeah, that's not necessarily people want to have. And when you're getting fantastic results like this. Now this wasn't Orbe's panel. This wasn't Orbe.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. This was like a peer reviewed clinical study.

[Whitney Port]

This correct for the ingredients.

[Dear Media]

The ingredients. The. So you know, the fact that it came back so promising, I'm thrilled to bits with you know, the fact that we do have these three main ingredients. Now Copixil has actually got the red clover extract in it that has. That really can help thicken and fortify the hair. Hair strands we've also gotten. That's been proven. And we also know that the redensyl is actually a compound of glycine and zinc and that is basically a keratin formulation.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Dear Media]

So it's protein again, strengthens, fortifies the hair and makes the hair healthier and thicker looking, which is brilliant. And then of course you've got your pea sprout protein, which is a phytonutrient and that's a great anti inflammatory. So we can cover on a range of issues that are going on, whether it's age related hair. Because our hair, the follicle becomes smaller, the hair is in a shorter lifespan, you know, so this will actually help that inflammation on the scalp. It's a really, it's a wonderful trio.

[Whitney Port]

I have been using it and I'm getting results.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

So it's there.

[Jill Dunn]

So there's a shampoo conditioner and a leave in densifying treatment spray. Any tips for how this treatment is best applied? And I do want to say something I learned yesterday is that this conditioner, you actually put it on your roots to help with the densifying.

[Dear Media]

I'm so excited about the conditioner because I actually created it. So for everybody listening and everyone watching for you, for you guys out there who've got really fine hair and hate conditioner because you feel like this just weighs my hair down and it looks horrible. My hair right now is on its second day.

[Jill Dunn]

Looks great.

[Dear Media]

Yeah, it really does. And I'm very excited. Now I wash my hair usually every day because I've never found a conditioner that I could use that I could push my hair to the second day because it just would be greasy and limp and horrible. So our conditioner has the capixel and the redensyl and the pea sprout protein in it. It's very, it's not a heavy cream.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's quite milky, milky conditioner. It's like, ooh, oh, that's good. Milk soap conditioner. I think milk is great.

[Dear Media]

You can sort of apply it right the way through from your roots to your ends. Now if you're very nervous and you think, no, no, no, no, my roots are going to get then fine, just put it on your mid lengths to ends, which is absolutely fine. It will not make your hair greasy. What we want to do is after we've shampooed our hair, we want to be able to close the cuticle. So we just want to just add a little bit, put it right the way through, rinse it really well and you'll. And it will just be sensational. It's going to really help give a lovely shine to the hair without weighing your hair down.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Okay.

[Dear Media]

And Adam, how do you.

[Jill Dunn]

Because you're personally using it.

[Dear Media]

I do, yeah. So do I.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Whitney Port]

And same here. Like I'm using it too. I feel like as a hairstylist, the insight that I try to give my clients is shampoo your scalp like you're used to with the conditioner. Because normally we shampoo the Roots and condition the ends.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

What I tell people is think of it like a skin serum. Press it into your scalp. Like Penny said, it's not going to weigh your hair down.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

You want those ingredients on your scalp where they're going to do what they do.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

And speaking for myself, because I have coarse, thick, curly hair, I use the densifying conditioner on my scalp, and I use a different conditioner through the lengths of my hair. It happens to be the deep treatment mask for more. That's what I like.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Bougie. Yeah. I mean, obviously. Yes.

[Whitney Port]

And for the treatment spray, we recommend using it on wet hair straight out of the shower. I think partly because, you know, when your hair's wet, it kind of clumps together and the scalp is a little more exposed.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Whitney Port]

That way, when you spray it on, it really hits the scalp again. I mean, I learned from Penny that I don't need to use as much of this as I was using. I really was bombing it. And you don't need to use that much. And there is, in addition to the Kapixel ingredient, there's a little sneaky styling polymer in there that plumps the roots on contact.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

So if you bring it all the way through your hair, even though it's not a hair product, you do get a little instant volume benefit that just does something right away. While the capixel ingredient takes time to.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do what it does. I've tried the line, and I did find it gives you an instant, like, volumizing effect that you might get from a volumizing shampoo and conditioner. But I was really impressed by seeing the before and afters that you guys showed us yesterday. Like, that, to me, did not look like oribe.

[Whitney Port]

They're crazy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like, a lot thicker. And it was over 100 people. Right. That you would.

[Dear Media]

We've got a panelist. Yeah. Of over 100 people.

[Whitney Port]

There's a study happening now.

[Dear Media]

We are. We're just like, literally just waiting now for our results to come in very, very shortly.

[Jill Dunn]

SA First Aid Beauty is one of our show partners this week. So we talk a lot about exfoliation on this show, its benefits for your skincare routine. But we don't talk about it that often in regards to how much better your makeup application can be with the right exfoliation. So I want to introduce you to First Aid Beauty's facial radiance pads. These are a game changer for making my pores appear smaller and getting rid of any little acne post inflammatory pigmentation. Marks that I have and I love how convenient they are. It's just a pre dose pad. It has glycolic acid, it has lactic acid. Gentle. For sensitive skin types like mine, swipe it on and you're glowing. And if you swipe it on before you do your makeup, I just find you have to use less foundation. Your application is smoother and your skin just looks glowier and better. So I think you're going to love, love them. So see the difference first aid Beauties Facial radiance pads can make for your complexion. We know that you'll love them as much as we do. And right now we have a special offer just for our listeners. Get 20 off when you visit our exclusive URL first aid beauty.com beauty and use our promo code beauty that's first aid beauty.com beauty don't wait. Get 20 off with promo code beauty@firstaid beauty.com beauty that's first aid beauty.Com beauty we'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show. So professional treatments for hair thinning. It seems like, Adam, you're a bit of a guinea pig. You've probably tried a lot of things. I love it. I am here for it. I really have professional treatments for hair thinning. We've heard a lot about micro needling. Does that work well? Or scalp derma rollers or what other maybe options are there that people could try?

[Whitney Port]

Well, the studies are good on microneedling. When we do it for the face, it's I think mostly about collagen induction. When you do it on the scalp, you get a cascade of healing and growth factors that come from basically the micro injury which isn't severe enough to cause scarring or permanent damage. But it's supposed to help. My recommendation having self administered some microneedling with a microneedling device. I've heard that people like dermal rollers and I think Penny is an advocate of a dermal roller.

[Dear Media]

Big fan of a dermal roller, you know, on the scalp. Yeah, absolutely. So you would come in with thickening treatment here, spray it on and then I'd definitely say, but don't puncture your skin, please don't because you're gonna end up with like a staph infection. Staphy. Yeah, staph infection. And it's just, you know, it can actually lead to a form of scarring, alopecia and you don't want to damage this.

[Carlene Higgins]

So you can actually purchase. I've seen scalp derma rollers Online that you can purchase. And so they're different than micro needling rollers.

[Dear Media]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. So you can.

[Dear Media]

The knee is just wider diameter of the actual. The little spikes on the roller.

[Carlene Higgins]

Great. So that's helpful. And you can use that in tandem with the top.

[Dear Media]

Yeah, why not? Absolutely.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Stimulation.

[Carlene Higgins]

Any other devices that are worth the.

[Dear Media]

Yeah, I'm a investment. Big, big fan of. It's like a little scalp massager, and it's like a little. It's got little rubber tips, like silicone.

[Jill Dunn]

Silicone, yes.

[Dear Media]

Oh, my goodness. I love it. And that's a nice way of actually even washing your hair. You know, you just come in and you're not scrubbing with it. Just think about pressing the little handheld brush onto the scalp and then gently sort of massaging, so sort of in round, sort of circular movements. And all you're doing is sort of pressing it into the scalp. You're not sort of jarring it back and forth and matting all the hair up and then sort of picking it up again and moving it to a different area on the scalp. It feels lovely.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

Amazing.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it just gets the circulation going.

[Dear Media]

Right, Circulation going.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. And finally, Adam, what's the best haircut or hairstyle for people who are experiencing thinning? Are there any pro tip tricks that you can share?

[Whitney Port]

Great question. I will say this. At least when it comes to male pattern balding, do not attempt to compensate for missing density with extra length. You're on a slippery slope headed toward a comb over.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

Which to a certain extent, can work kind of. But it's just. I've seen people really, in a misguided attempt to look their best, wind up looking not so great because they're overcompensating for missing density with a lot of length somewhere and, like, laying and placing and trying to, like, create an illusion. And I think in general, shorter is better.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Whitney Port]

And I think obviously using products that are gonna help to redensify your hair is brilliant. But also, on a more cosmetic note, sometimes I've used, like, root touch up sprays or root touch up products to sort of densify the scalp or the root in weaker areas. Like, as a styling thing. It helps a lot.

[Jill Dunn]

Filling in the hairline, basically.

[Whitney Port]

Yeah.

[Dear Media]

Just fill it in.

[Whitney Port]

It helps. It's cosmetic, but, you know, it helps us out a lot. And like, at Oribe, we have a product called swept up. It's like a volume powder. There are many versions of this.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

That is nice in fine hair because it creates a really dense, bulky feeling to the hair beefs it up. Also, if you've got that shiny scalp shining through, it mats down the shine and that helps.

[Jill Dunn]

That's a good tip.

[Whitney Port]

So, yeah, there are many ways.

[Jill Dunn]

What do you think about those hair fibers? I feel like you see them at the drugstore and stuff, like topics. Yeah. Like it?

[Dear Media]

Yeah, I do too.

[Whitney Port]

I like it.

[Jill Dunn]

Really? Do you like it too?

[Dear Media]

I do, yeah. And it's just been dermatology approved as well.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, Good to know.

[Jill Dunn]

And how long do those last in your hair? Till you wash them out. Until you wash it? Yeah. Yeah.

[Whitney Port]

I haven't found them to like transfer or like, if it rains or something, they don't like move. They stick in there pretty well. But when you shampoo it, it comes out.

[Dear Media]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

So for anyone who doesn't know, it's similar to kind of like a spray or a powder, but it has fibers in it that actually kind of like the fiber ones for your lashes.

[Jill Dunn]

It's like fiber mascara.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Where it's sticking to the hair.

[Whitney Port]

It's like a shaker. You shake it on.

[Dear Media]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Thank you so much, Adam, for sharing. Being so vulnerable. I love that you're so open about your own experience, especially as a hairstylist.

[Whitney Port]

I think that's we gotta normalize it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. I love that.

[Dear Media]

We do. I appreciate it.

[Whitney Port]

It's awkward and it's normal.

[Carlene Higgins]

So, yeah, absolutely.

[Whitney Port]

Let's normalize it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And thanks to you, Penny, as well.

[Dear Media]

Oh, my pleasure. And you know, hair loss is devastating. It's part of our identity when we're losing our hair and you know, don't be embarrassed. There's lots and lots of resources. I have a support group that all my trichologies clients are part of. If anyone wants to reach out to me, you can just reach out on my website. I also on my Instagram page too, ask any questions and I can lead you to the right resources. I'm affiliated with some of the leading world leading dermatologists in hair loss.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, I appreciate that. Well, thank you so much for your time. We've learned so much. And thank you so much for having.

[Dear Media]

Me on your show.

[Jill Dunn]

Thank you.

[Whitney Port]

It was fun. Thank you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail] While.

[Jill Dunn]

You'Re there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a.

[Carlene Higgins]

Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode, you can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Jill Dunn]

And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Carlene Higgins]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.

[Jill Dunn]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Carlene Higgins]

See you next Wednesday. Wednesday.

[Jill Dunn]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.