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Breaking Beauty Podcast
How-to Get Your Best Smile Ever (and Mistakes to Avoid!) with Celebrity Cosmetic Dentist Dr. Michael Apa
00:59:22
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- [00:01]
A
The following podcast is a Dear media production. Welcome to Breaking Beauty the podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty. We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to Breaking Beauty, everyone, where your hosts, Carlene and Jill, two beauty editors turned beauty podcasters in your feed and on YouTube every single Wednesday.
- [00:32]
B
And of course, every week, we're talking about the authentic breakthroughs, whether it's an iconic product that truly changed the game as we know it, the breakthrough moments that are making headlines, or the breakthrough minds who are leading the conversation in how we approach our beauty routines.
- [00:49]
A
Yes. And I'm so excited for our episode today because it's not often that we talk about our oral hygiene on the podcast. Jill. And yet our smiles and how we feel about them are so integral to our self confidence. And we're finally sitting down with the man behind the most iconic smiles in Hollywood, Dr. Michael Apa.
- [01:08]
B
And Dr. Appa. He's quite literally the most in demand aesthetic dentist in the world. We've been trying to get him on the microphone for quite a while now, but he is just flying all over the world between Beverly Hills, New York, Dubai. I had the good fortune of going to his practice in Beverly Hills and getting a whitening done. Carlene. And it's the most prestige dean. You just feel like you are going to a spa. Even though I was getting my teeth cleaned and getting a whitening treatment done.
- [01:39]
A
Yeah, absolutely. So Dr. Apa started his cosmetic dentistry practice in the early 2000s, and he pioneered a signature approach called FAD. FAD? That's short for facial aesthetic design, which is basically completely the opposite of that Chiclet teeth look that was popular back in the 90s. It's totally customized to your own unique features. And I think that's where what's made him the smile guru in Hollywood.
- [02:05]
B
Yeah. And he's just like a fascinating character, really. I mean, he's got like dentistry party tricks up his sleeve, frankly. You know, he can read dental body language. He can tell if someone has sleep apnea, if they're a mouth breather just by looking at their skeletal structure.
- [02:20]
A
Who knew we'd be having so much fun in an episode all about teeth? But honestly, on the educational front, we're covering so much ground today. And if you've ever considered veneers, this is your master class. We're talking about Veneer 101. From the myths to why you should Never trust a 3D rendering from a surgeon.
- [02:38]
B
Yeah. And just even things that I've been curious about. Like Invisalign. Like, is it a do or a don't? Like these DIY things that are just popping up all over Tik Tok, you know, and we talk about the aging smile, which we don't necessarily think about our teeth aging, but they absolutely are. And you know, we get the sticker shock, we get the price from Dr. Abbott, how much it costs and sort of his reasoning behind what it costs to go and see him.
- [03:04]
A
We also ask him what he personally would not do in his at home routine as a cosmetic dentist. And finally, we get the scoop on his luxury oral. Caroline Appa Beauty. It's a damn good deep dive into the architecture of a smile. Welcome, Dr. Michael Apa.
- [03:25]
C
Save me, Save me.
- [03:34]
A
Welcome to breaking beauty podcast. Dr. Apa, super happy to be here at long last. We've been trying to get you on the show, but you are often in the air flying from one of your locations to another. You are the man behind countless Hollywood smiles, and I'm guessing part of the reason is because of your unique technique fad facial aesthetic design. So tell us what that is and what difference that makes in the final result.
- [04:03]
C
So not to tell you how old I am, but cosmetic dentistry, when I was going to school was all about golden proportions of a smile. And so I would, you know, I had mentors and I would look at what everyone was doing in terms of work. And the biggest complaint we're talking about 2002, 2003 was that I don't want to get veneers because it looks like Chiclets or big, straight, white teeth. And interestingly, when you use principles just of the smile, it's a very small frame and it's not that significantly different from person to person. And so the golden proportion that they were using created the same smile basically for everyone. And that's how cosmetic dentistry was taught. When I came out, I started doing research using a mixture of orthodontia and cosmetic dentistry. And in orthodontia, they take a full cephalometric X ray of your head and basically they can see in relation to your bone structure where the position of the teeth should be. And so I mix that with proportions of, you know, beautiful teeth and kind of put them into one picture. And the basis of facial aesthetic design is that each smile will be unique to each person because it's based off of the asymmetries that currently exist in someone's face. Ah, that makes sense.
- [05:31]
A
Yeah. So it's more customized.
- [05:32]
C
It's much more customized, yeah.
- [05:34]
A
And now are you Actually using, when you say a picture is this kind of like an, you know, applications or AI or something where you're designing it.
- [05:44]
C
This was started in 2007, is the first time I wrote a paper on it where there was no AI. But today, not that I want to leak this project, but might as well, there is 3D software available and we have, I mean, I have smiles created from 2003 to 2025. So we have a library of every smile that I've ever created. And so the AI software can take someone's face and then be able to utilize, based on their facial structure, what the best smile that I've created so they can get a preview of an app, a smile as a rendering, which to date is not possible.
- [06:31]
A
Now, you talked about, you obviously have an interest in anatomy and you're really thinking about the whole picture.
- [06:38]
C
Yeah.
- [06:38]
A
If a person's teeth tell a story, what sort of things can you tell about a person's health or lifestyle that they may not even be aware of based on an initial exam?
- [06:51]
B
Hashtag, no judging.
- [06:54]
C
All right, now, now I'm going to nerd out a little bit.
- [06:56]
B
Okay. I love that.
- [06:57]
C
Okay. In the world, this is not proven. There are roughly 15 to 20 basic facial types in the world. And then what happens is you have injuries, you have orthodontia, which changes bone structure, you have procedures, you have environmental factors of how you live your life. And all of those things start to change the soft tissue and skin, and some things change bone. But I can tell a lot about a person just on their skeletal structure of their face, like sleep apnea, like mouth breathing, like clenching or grinding, like aggression, which is clenching or grinding. And it's not something that is ever talked about, and it should be because now here's we're going to just really stretch the boundaries. I have one special unique gift and talent, and that is I can close my eyes and listen to someone's voice and I can tell you exactly who's speaking. So, like, when you watch commercials, many huge actors are doing voiceovers to those really terrible commercials. Why, I have no idea, but they are. And I can hear their voice. Now, more importantly, based on someone's skeletal structure, I can hear what their voice is going to sound like because of the relationship of the teeth, the bones, the tongue, all of those things gives a certain pitch and you can honestly start to hear how somebody sounds.
- [08:29]
B
So if somebody has like a very high pitched voice, what does that tell you?
- [08:32]
C
They usually have a weaker chin, high vaulted palate, and a thick tongue.
- [08:39]
B
People tell me I have valley girl voice a lot. The commenters on this.
- [08:42]
A
Maybe it's not her fault. Everyone.
- [08:45]
B
Yeah.
- [08:47]
A
Leave her alone.
- [08:50]
B
Honestly.
- [08:52]
C
Yeah.
- [08:54]
A
What do you do with this skill, doctor?
- [08:56]
C
Absolutely. I'm trying to figure that out. Like, if there was a job where you got paid to hear somebody's voice and be able to identify it, I'd be a billionaire.
- [09:04]
A
Guess that voice.
- [09:05]
B
Yeah.
- [09:05]
A
Now, people of all ages come to you, but. But perhaps you can explain what happens to our teeth as we age and how do we know when it's time for a dental glow up?
- [09:16]
C
Yeah. So first thing is, skeletally, when you're in your teens and you're looking at orthodontia and did you or did you not have it? I would say the number one thing, if people were compliant to save themselves from coming to see me, would be good orthodontia at, you know, good Pre orthodontia at 10, good orthodontia at 13 to 15. And then amazing retention. Wearing retainers or just bonding a permanent wire behind your bottom six teeth. Permanent retainer, because as the teeth shift, interestingly, it changes your bone structure. And what happens over time is people clench and grind and it essentially hollows out your smile and pushes everything forward. Most times now you two have completely different skeletal structures, so you're doing something completely different to your teeth. But typically the lower four start to crowd. Then as you're clenching, it starts to shift the upper teeth. And then depending upon how long it goes unchecked for, and then mix in like bad single tooth dentistry, that throws off people's bites, your teeth just start to move around and it can cause traumatic occlusion, bone loss, tooth loss, implants, things like that. So essentially, definitely wear retainers that. I think that's the number one most important thing. And, you know, 20s, even 30s, you don't see it as much unless people are really hard on their teeth. And like, unless people are on Adderall as kids, like, that accelerates problems with your teeth because you're constantly grinding and moving them around. But typically we start to see those types of problems of just natural aging. Late 30s, early 40s.
- [11:06]
A
Yeah, it's interesting because I, I opted to not go the orthodontical route, or I guess my parents did, because my teeth were passable.
- [11:14]
C
Yeah.
- [11:14]
A
At that time in comparison to my siblings. And they had spent. I have three siblings. They spent big money on. On them. I was the last one in their religious just go, but. And I was fine with it. But now that I'm 50, it now I do notice it more. And I'm like. I think. Because they are probably shifting more. Like, last year, I was in la. Actually, it was after we had our lunch, I remember, and I was in the hotel room and I woke up one morning and I was like, what is that in my mouth? And I spit it out. And it was. A piece of my tooth had, like, cracked and fallen off, and I was just. It crumbled in my mouth and I was like, oh, my God, what is happening to me? I'm literally rusting and falling apart at the seams. So, you know, this is where, as you say, it's just things shift. So when it was may have been possible when I was a teenager, but now I'm having issues. Does everyone need orthodontia?
- [12:15]
C
No.
- [12:15]
B
Okay.
- [12:16]
C
No. And by the way, you have amazing collagen still at. I didn't know you were 50 or how old you are, but. And so it will. It gets worse if you age faster because your face becomes thinner and your teeth become more apparent sometimes. So you're still doing good. Now there's cosmetic need. If you just were born with the wrong color teeth or were born with anatomically small teeth or you had problems that never got fixed with orthodontia, then we intervene in, you know, mid to late 20s.
- [12:48]
B
And the gum recession piece. Very sexy over here, guys. Gum recession, is it strictly genetic or is there a specific habit that is contributing?
- [12:58]
C
It isn't. So gum recession and bone loss. So bone loss is. Can be passed down from your familial history, but gum recession is more of a sign of clenching, grinding, or bad restorations that you're just hitting too hard. So when you put too much pressure on a tooth, whether it's from shifting and it breaks or it doesn't break and you're just hammering it, what happens is the bone on the front breaks down and the gum recedes with it. So normally you get like those. They're called mid facial, but right in the front of the tooth recession. Whereas generalized recession, which is from, like, periodontal disease or something like that, that is unfortunately a trait that was passed down. And it's a different type of bacteria that you have in your saliva that just eats away at the bone. But that's less common. More common is just facial gum recession from your bite.
- [13:57]
A
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- [16:00]
D
Dating in this era isn't casual. It's strategic and emotional and sometimes it still feels absolutely ridiculous. Welcome to We Met at Acme, the OG dating podcast that meets you right where you're at and gives you the real rules for dating, marriage and life beyond the ever elusive happily ever after. I'm Lindsay Metzilar and I've been through it all. The apps, the ghosting, finding the one, the ring, and yes, even the baby. Expect ultra honest guest conversations, personal hot takes and unfiltered advice where I give it to you straight. No exceptions. So sit down, tune in and take notes every Sunday because the rules of dating may have changed, but the standards higher than ever.
- [16:50]
A
So porcelain veneers are a huge part of what you do. Yes, let's do a little bit of Veneer 101. Okay, how are veneers installed? What's the overall process we're looking at?
- [17:01]
C
They are bonded exactly like a white filling. So do either of you have white fillings in your mouth?
- [17:09]
B
I have a couple.
- [17:09]
A
I have mercury ones.
- [17:12]
B
I definitely have a couple of mercury ones too. But we were talking about it yesterday because there's this. When you go for a facial, sometimes they use these devices that.
- [17:20]
A
Microcurrent.
- [17:20]
B
Yeah, microcurrent. And then you taste metal. Yeah, yeah. From the mercury and fillings.
- [17:26]
C
So bonding happened in the 80s or so. So in the 60s, 70s and early 80s, when Hollywood wanted a great smile, they used to literally cut crowns, meaning, like shave your tooth down to a peg, put on a big crown and it was glued on. And that is how you put a crown on. Porcelain veneers or porcelain restorations have become much more minimally invasive because you don't have to cut for retention. When you cut a crown, it has to stick to the tooth that you're sticking it onto with some glue. When you're bonding a restoration like porcelain, you're essentially making these bridges between the porcelain and the tooth. Teeth have, let's call it pores just for ease, that lock these agents in. And then when it's done bonded, it's one piece. And it's not like people say, like, is something going to get under my veneer? It's impossible.
- [18:19]
A
Okay, yeah, good to know.
- [18:21]
C
Yeah.
- [18:22]
A
Is there a trial run that happens in this process? Because I think about again, for myself now, I'm starting to think about these things and, and like, it would, it feels like it'd be so drastic.
- [18:33]
C
Yeah.
- [18:35]
A
So, yeah. How does that work?
- [18:36]
C
If it's done? Well, it's not. But if, and here's just a tip, if you're seeing any really talented, artistically talented surgeon, dermatologist, cosmetic dentist, doesn't matter. Anyone who tells you that they're going to give you a 3D rendering before you start is currently lying to you. There's so much that happens when you're actually in there that you have to know how to navigate and make it look its best. Because what you're really doing with porcelain veneers or fixing someone's smile is you're figuring out how the teeth support the lower third of the face. And until you can see and feel the tissue drape around the teeth, a two dimensional or even a three dimensional image is not gonna give you that because it's gonna give you a shot in time. Right. And so I can show You a rendering of what you would look like with straight white teeth. But it's a lie, and that's what bothers me about it. So you have to have some trust. So do some research and make sure that you like the person that you're going to, and then follow their process all the way through. And within the process, there is a point where you go into temporaries. And the temporaries are really a actual rendering of what the permanents are going to look like in your mouth with composite, which is the white filling material. And then from that you can say it's too white, it's too dark, it's too big, it's too small, and it can be altered in your mouth so that again, you can see it and then make final decisions. And then the ceramic should be basically replica of what the temporaries were. So one of the biggest things, especially early on and still happening today, is the inability for the person, the patient, to know what they're gonna look like when it's done and have their expectations met. And there are so many descriptive words in any of these procedures that we're doing, dermatology, plastic surgery, dentistry, where you're saying softer, rounder, even whiter. What is two shades whiter? There's no such thing. And so until you physically see it, I don't think that you're going to get a really, truly understanding of what it's going to look like.
- [20:50]
B
Yeah, but like you're saying, it's not just. It's like you do have points along the way where you have checkpoints.
- [20:56]
C
Yes, yes, 100%.
- [20:57]
B
Okay. Okay. And how long would that process typically take?
- [21:02]
C
So start to finish, it's essentially two three hour appointments. And we have two ways that we do it. We have. So I'm traveling from location to location. And so the longest that I stay in my, let's call them satellite locations, which is Miami, Louisiana and Dubai. I'm there for five working days. So one patient, every trip gets turned around in five days. Most patients get turned around trip to trip. So it's temporaries first day, three hour appointment, come back three weeks later, another three hour appointment to put all the teeth in. And that's the standard of how it's done.
- [21:41]
A
Okay. And now you talked about this a bit earlier, but I think people, they are concerned. This is what's searched up the most. So there is no shaving or prepping of teeth. There's no destroying the teeth in this process or what?
- [21:55]
C
Good question.
- [21:56]
A
Okay.
- [21:57]
C
Destroying is a terrible word. Yeah. We're gonna scratch that.
- [22:03]
B
What would you say?
- [22:04]
C
Yeah, is your phrasing Typically, most people, when we are doing restorative cosmetic dentistry, which is what we're doing, we're fixing a problem now to the patient's eye and thought they are coming for cosmetic concerns. A good dentist is saying like, you have basically lived your entire life in single tooth neglect. And so unfortunately, most dentistry is insurance based, so on and so forth, or even good practitioners that don't understand how the mouth works as a whole. And people's entire lives, they go for cleaning, checkup, they do a single tooth and then all of a sudden, oh, that feels high. Tap, tap, tap, they adjust it down. Oh, now it feels high on the other side. Tap, tap, tap. And then you're just like, like you're constantly changing something that is so, you know, it's like a functioning thing that you have so much to do with, you know, senses wise. So you feel everything in your mouth. So you broke your front tooth out of nowhere, right? Now, realistically, we could probably trace it back to when's the last time you had a filling put in. And your teeth definitely are doing exactly what I said, which is pushing forward and crowding. So when it gets to the point.
- [23:23]
B
Where it's just a little too far.
- [23:25]
C
Out and you're clenching at night, it crumbles. Right? But a good dentist could have seen that coming a long, long ways away. So what are we doing? We are shaping the teeth to receive the new restoration in the correct place. Now, if every patient had the budget to come in and do every tooth in their mouth, it would be basically prep less because we could. Most people need space back open because over time everything's going like this. So we call it opening the bite. If you look at my Instagram, a lot of times they'll say, oh, we open the bite and we had room and blah, blah, blah. In cases like that, you can just overlay. If they're healthy teeth, just overlay the teeth and you will have plenty of space to not have to drill. If you have crowded teeth and you want them straight, obviously when you're done, you're not shaping them down to pegs, right? But you are shaping them three dimensionally to now receive the new tooth in the new position. Whether you do prep less or minimal prep, it doesn't matter. Once you bond a porcelain veneer, which is a dental restoration, onto the tooth that is now your tooth. So people say, like, well, what's it going to feel like? Like, what's going to feel like having a veneer on my tooth. Well, what's it going to feel like having a filling in your mouth? Like, do you really know which teeth have fillings and which don't? If they're not silver and you can see them like I have two, I forget which ones they are. And I'm a dentist. And the reality is it's just restorative dentistry. It's been happening forever. But when it comes to veneers, there's so much, you know, it boils down to. It is not a recognized specialty from the American Dental Association. So everyone that graduates dental school can be a cosmetic dentist. And there's no guidelines as to what is good and what is bad other than failures. I mean, you're still a dentist. Yes, right.
- [25:26]
B
Yes.
- [25:26]
C
But for instance, to be an orthodontist, to be a board certified orthodontist, you're going four years of dental school, three years of, of orthodontia specialty, and then you can practice orthodontia. Then the general big business came in. Like they do. They love to screw stuff up and they invent an Invisalign. Invisalign. Everyone can do orthodontia. You don't need a specialty. You just take our weekend course. We will plan everything for you. We send all the trays to you and your patient, and you now also can offer that as an additional service to what you're doing in dentistry. And it just shouldn't be that way. Like, cosmetic dentistry should be a specialty. It would cut down on 90% of the failures that we see. Same thing with orthodontia. Like orthodontia should be for orthodontists. And if they want to use Invisalign as a tool, great, because it's clear and it's easier for people to say, okay, but general dentist should not be out there, like just doing major orthodontia on patients with no specialty.
- [26:26]
B
Now another hotly googled question is about the investment when it comes to getting veneers.
- [26:32]
C
All right, I'm ready.
- [26:33]
B
What can people expect to invest for quality veneers? Like a ballpark?
- [26:39]
A
Or do we just.
- [26:40]
C
Okay, so think of it this way. Let's reframe the conversation. What would you pay per year to look at yourself in the mirror every morning and every night and say, man, I love my smile. Like, what is that worth? How much do you spend on average on your hair in a year? Because what we're talking about is letting it go totally gray. No more coloring, no more haircuts, no more styling which is very expensive that you have to do every three months. Ish.
- [27:13]
A
Yeah.
- [27:14]
B
Oh, more than that.
- [27:15]
C
Okay.
- [27:15]
B
Yeah.
- [27:16]
C
So give me an average budget to take care of someone's hair.
- [27:20]
B
Oh, blonde. Blondes in Toronto. 700 to 900 bucks a few times a year. Every three months, probably.
- [27:27]
C
So let's call it $3,000 a year.
- [27:30]
B
Yeah.
- [27:31]
C
All right. $3,000 a year times 15 years. What's that, four, 45 grand?
- [27:38]
B
Yeah.
- [27:38]
C
Yeah.
- [27:39]
A
Yep.
- [27:39]
C
You could get a new smile for 45 grand.
- [27:42]
B
Yeah.
- [27:42]
A
Okay.
- [27:43]
C
Yeah, but. But people don't think of it like that. Yeah, it's like. It is something that lasts for, you know, 15 good years, and it changes your confidence. It changes the way you feel about yourself. And it's not a bag. You don't have to wear that bag that day. Your outfit doesn't have to coincide with that bag. You get up. You don't have to put makeup on it. All you gotta do is brush your teeth. Woke up this way, and you get that. And that, to me, is the value of having great teeth.
- [28:16]
A
Yeah.
- [28:17]
B
And also, I'm just gonna say that a couple years ago, I did have to have a tooth pulled. And that overall, when it was all said and done, was $10,000 and it was one tooth.
- [28:28]
C
Correct. And if somebody looked at your mouth as a whole long ago.
- [28:35]
B
Yeah.
- [28:36]
C
I could almost guarantee that you probably wouldn't have had to have that tooth pulled.
- [28:40]
A
What happens after 15 years?
- [28:42]
C
You replace.
- [28:53]
B
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- [30:59]
A
If somebody came in and they do have crowded teeth, do they need to go away and do Invisaligns before they get the veneers or this is going to fix both problems.
- [31:08]
C
Fix both.
- [31:09]
A
Okay, there's a savings, everyone.
- [31:11]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [31:12]
A
Look, don't, don't buy the Invisalign. Just go straight to veneers. There you go.
- [31:18]
B
Okay, thank you for clarifying. Yeah, a lot of celebrities, you know, some celebrities, some creators have maybe shared veneer remorse on social media. When does veneer remorse happen?
- [31:32]
C
We're using no names on this one, right?
- [31:34]
B
That's right.
- [31:34]
A
Yeah. We didn't use any names.
- [31:36]
C
Okay, so with no name said, I can, can I? Come on, speak up. You know what, they have their microphones now. Guess what? I have mine. That particular veneer remorser.
- [31:56]
A
Yes.
- [31:58]
C
Who said that, you know, she wanted to do a certain amount and then she was talked into more so on and so forth. Is my patient.
- [32:07]
A
Oh.
- [32:09]
C
And when she came in, I explained to her explicitly why she couldn't do these two teeth longer, which is what she wanted because her bite did not allow for it. And she came in with bonding that was broken. And if you're breaking bonding, it's a good sign that you're going to also chip the veneer if you don't fix it. Why the bonding's breaking. People are just like, oh, bonding's just weak. No, it's not. It actually is fine if your bite is balanced. And so I found that one particular interesting because listen, I didn't go out and seek anyone. I explained what could and could not be done And I started with a very small amount of 6 and 4. And I told her that you should really do your full smile because you're going to be particular and you're going to see a seam of where the teeth stop and start.
- [33:04]
A
Right.
- [33:05]
C
And so after I got done, she electively came back about six months later and did all the rest of her teeth. So I don't know how much veneer remorse she really had.
- [33:21]
A
Right. Because there were six months where it was the. Just the two. Am I understanding that right?
- [33:26]
C
Where there were just the six on top and four on bottom. And then she electively came back to do another eight teeth.
- [33:33]
A
Yeah, yeah, right.
- [33:35]
C
And I've seen her since. And every time. I love my teeth so much. I love you. Okay, so. Okay, so now real veneer remorse. I think when people have good teeth and they go in with expectations of fixing something that's bothering them and they turn out with over prepared. These were prepless teeth, by the way, that we did on the one that we were just talking about. Zero drilling. Okay. But over prepared in their, you know, in their 20s and they have pegs and they have gum problems and veneers are popping off. Yeah, that's veneer remorse. But that's, that's what I'm talking about is that, that's not, that's not veneers. That's just bad work.
- [34:23]
A
Yeah.
- [34:24]
C
And I feel terrible and I wish the dental industry would do something about it. Right. But the best thing I can say is like, go to somebody that does it every single day. Don't go to your local dentist who talked you into, you know, a smile makeover. Because it's not, it's like going to your GP with a cold and saying like, while you're swabbing my throat, could I just get a quick facelift?
- [34:58]
A
So what about corrections? Like, how much time do you, how much of your cases do you do revisions?
- [35:05]
C
Way too much. Over 50% of my work is revision work. In fact, I'm getting like, I have a torn labrum and I'm starting to get problems with my hands just from in the materials. Again, this goes like, it's a whole cycle. Really good work is hand layered ceramic, meaning it's paintbrush powder. It's painted on, baked in an oven. When it goes into someone's mouth, it's a very similar hardness to enamel. And so when you cut good work off, it cuts off like enamel. It's very easy and very soft. For dental companies, they're like, we gotta figure something else out. We need to make a material that we can brand and make it fast and easy and cheap so that everybody can use it. And so now. And we use it, but people use it the wrong way. There's something called monolithic Emax, which is what, unfortunately 90% of the dental technicians are trained in today because it's fast, cheap, easy. Big business promotes lectures to go on stage to talk about it. People say, oh, it's stronger, it's harder, it's better. The problem is it is so strong that it is nearly impossible to cut off. And more importantly, when you're eating right, if it's off, a veneer would just chip, which is fine. You go in and replace it. A monolithic Emax veneer will not chip. It will just rock the tooth and rock the tooth until it needs to be extracted. Oh, okay. And so cutting that off is a absolute nightmare.
- [36:48]
A
Wow.
- [36:48]
C
It's a nightmare for me. And it's horrible. Horrible for the patient.
- [36:53]
A
That's one thing you can do is ask what they're using.
- [36:56]
C
Yeah. What material you're using and why.
- [36:58]
A
Yeah.
- [36:59]
B
And your preferred material is layered ceramic. Wow. Carlene, you had this question about pop on veneers, and I never even knew.
- [37:08]
A
That was a thing. I didn't know it was a thing either, but that's what my research told me. I was like, I don't know what this is. Is this like a toupee? I don't know. And then I googled it and I actually was coming across websites that was like, pop on veneers. Like, sign up Tik Tok shop, Snap on Smile. Are people doing this as a real thing?
- [37:36]
C
It's called Snap on Smile.
- [37:38]
B
Okay.
- [37:38]
C
And basically it is the same material that we make temporaries with.
- [37:44]
A
That's what I was thinking.
- [37:45]
C
It's printed, so it's strong and it is huge.
- [37:52]
A
Huge business.
- [37:53]
C
No, it's huge.
- [37:56]
A
Oh, I see.
- [37:57]
B
Okay.
- [37:58]
A
Yeah.
- [37:59]
C
And I would say, are people doing it? I don't know of any, but I do know it's used a lot in television. I know a lot of my patients who work on tv, they have a role or they have this or they have that. And they use snap on smiles to simulate, you know, big veneers or, you know, a goofy smile, whatever it is. Like Matt Dillon in Something about Marriage dating me. But that's a snap on smile.
- [38:27]
A
Okay, got it. Yeah, got it.
- [38:29]
B
And a lot of. Obviously everyone's on camera at all times these days. And lots of famous smiles get scrutinized and there's one celebrity on Social media, where people frequently say, that's not her. Look at her teeth. Her teeth weren't. Weren't like that before. They weren't gappy. And so one of them. As one of the world's top aesthetic dentists, what common dental reasons could explain such a noticeable shift? Or are the people right that she's a clone?
- [38:55]
C
Can we say who it is? Oh, what's probably happening. So she has veneers, for sure. I did not do them. I know who did them. She has not had them changed. So she had them when she was a kid, and then she went through whatever she went through in life. And the veneers are white, except for where the gum is receded, and you're starting to see the difference. And then her bite has definitely shifted the teeth so that she now has spaces between her teeth because she's knocking into the veneers. It was definitely Emax, the monolithic Emax. So the tooth is moving, and as it moves, it creates a gap. And so.
- [39:38]
A
Yeah, yeah. So that is.
- [39:40]
C
That's real.
- [39:41]
A
That. That's real.
- [39:42]
B
And we talk a lot about cosmetic enhancements on the show and surgeries that people are doing on their face. Could that complicate the way you need to design their smile versus maybe five years ago?
- [39:56]
C
Could it complex? Yeah, it does.
- [40:01]
B
Or are there? Yeah. Like, if someone's like, I'm gonna get a lower jaw lift or whatever, or.
- [40:06]
A
Botox, what is it?
- [40:08]
C
Okay, so a couple things. Couple things to look out for. I don't love Botox. South of the eyes, especially around the mouth and especially anywhere near the chin. So a lot of people, when they get that, they smile and one side goes like this, and then one side goes normal. Right.
- [40:29]
B
Like joker style.
- [40:30]
C
And it makes it look like they have a crooked smile.
- [40:33]
B
So.
- [40:34]
C
And it takes a long time for it to really go back to normal. So. And I see it all the time, lip lifts, If done well, always, and if done in the right situations, can help a lot. But, you know, it was a very, like, publicized treatment to where a lot of surgeons started doing it and more. So a lot of patients started asking for it. And, you know, there's a certain drape to your upper lip, which makes your smile beautiful. And sometimes when it's, like, pinned up against your nose, it makes my job very hard to make your smile now look pretty. Another thing, obviously, is filler. Right. So in the dental world, we love a stretchy cheek, Right. When someone comes in and we can really just move it. Why, it's definitely easier to Work in someone's mouth. But more importantly, like I was speaking about earlier, you can do if. If you're going for a natural, A truly natural look, right? You're trying to reverse time of what you look like now and what you look like then, not what you look like now, and you want to look like somebody else. There's two different patients, and I'm not saying one is right and one is wrong. But for people who are really trying to reverse time, you want to rebuild the lower third first, right? So it's like a foundation of a house. And once you do that, the skin drapes differently, and you will have to push and pull and fill less versus getting to a place where there's no wrinkles anymore, whether it be from a facelift or from filler. And then I have to shove teeth in that will functionally work, which most of the time, if you're over the age of 50, it requires building up your bite. So now I have to stretch you more, and all of a sudden, things don't look normal. And lastly, like, if it's overfilled, your smile, your filler in your lip and filler in the nasolabial folds adds weight to your skin and pushes your lip down. And so, as you're getting older, everything's falling, and you're saying, I don't see my smile the way that I once did. Right. And my lips are getting thinner. So, like, I'm gonna go to the dermatologist. My lips are thin. Yes, inject the lips, make it bigger, but it's going down and bigger. So now you're showing even less. And so then patients are coming into me and saying, like, I lost my smile. I used. And they'll show me a picture. When they were 25, I used to have this great big smile. But what happened was there's a natural elasticity where the skin is falling, and then they're injecting it to be lower and fuller and covering more. And it's going actually against what you're really trying to achieve.
- [43:34]
A
We've all heard of ozempic face. Is there such a thing as ozempic teeth?
- [43:39]
C
Well, ozempic face gives you ozempic teeth.
- [43:42]
B
Okay, Right.
- [43:43]
C
So let's say someone comes in, and every time you're building a smile, what you're trying to do is create harmony in someone's face, right? And so if they come in and they don't tell you, like, hey, I'm about to lose £50, you're building teeth for them today. Now I'm not saying like 10 pounds, give or take, that's fine. But when you build teeth and then they lose 50 pounds, those teeth are going to look huge. And obviously I have patients like that. And so ozempic face, I would say, gives you ozempic teeth because the teeth are not changing size and they're just sitting there, whereas your face is getting thinner and more drawn and your teeth are just looking bigger and bigger and bigger in proportion to everything else.
- [44:33]
A
You know what? I see that now. I'm picturing it and I'm just like, that is part of the look.
- [44:41]
C
Yeah.
- [44:41]
A
Because for the longest time they were talking about ozempic face and I was like, I don't really see it. But this year, really it's very obvious. And it's kind of skeletal.
- [44:52]
C
Skeletal.
- [44:53]
A
Part of that look is the protruding teeth. So what is your recommendation then if somebody was going to do this?
- [45:03]
C
If you're planning on losing weight dramatically, wait to have your teeth done.
- [45:11]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [45:13]
C
Now if you're planning on going on a ten pound diet, like, it's no problem.
- [45:17]
A
Yeah, right, yeah.
- [45:18]
B
I'm curious because you have a certain aesthetic, obviously that you're trying to maintain. What if a client is asking you for something that it's maybe in Dubai they want something different than they want in New York or whatever. Do you run into that at all?
- [45:32]
C
Never. No.
- [45:35]
B
I don't buy that.
- [45:38]
C
Okay, so the first thing that I. We have 15 dentists working with us and everybody is, you know, super passionate about what they think is right and all those other things. And I would say that, number one, the first thing I tell them is it's not about making you happy, it's about making them happy. That said, if it is biologically sound and functional, my aesthetic is not everyone's aesthetic. And I can adapt to understanding what they want. Now think about this. If a woman comes in with a lot of visible plastic surgery, not, you know, not good undetect. And I'm not saying undetectable plastic surgery is good and visible plastic surgery is bad. I'm just saying, like when people say like, oh, that's good work, you can't even tell I've had anything done, or oh, that's bad work. You know, they look tight or pulled when they look like that, you can't give them a natural smile because it will look like they have terrible brown teeth. You know what I mean? So that's when you. What you really should be doing is kind of sizing up the person and kind of taking yourself from your now from your aesthetic, to give them what they would to look their best. That said, it's definitely more enjoyable to do your own aesthetic because you. You just. You savor it that much more.
- [47:04]
A
So what I'm hearing is you give them the smile, depending on how big their personality is.
- [47:09]
C
Correct.
- [47:09]
A
Big personality gets big teeth.
- [47:11]
C
Correct.
- [47:12]
A
The quiet people get small teeth. No, I'm joking. I'm joking.
- [47:15]
B
They get what they. Well, they get what they want.
- [47:17]
A
Right.
- [47:18]
B
Within reason. You're trying to make them.
- [47:21]
C
So.
- [47:21]
B
One of the biggest things I hear from my friends as they age is that their teeth shift and they don't recognize their smile. You're kind of talking about that with the lip filler. Definitely happened to one of my front teeth. It moved.
- [47:32]
A
Great.
- [47:33]
B
What is the course of action? Because my. Somebody did say, do Invisalign. And I was like, I just can't. So what do you do? Let nature take its course or do you try to halt the process with an Invisalign? Any non invasive ideas?
- [47:49]
C
I don't have a problem with Invisalign. I would just. Okay, so think of it this way. There are probably, you know, a million practicing cosmetic dentists, and I would go to for my own teeth. Less than I can count on one hand. That's not true because I have 15 associates.
- [48:06]
B
Yeah, I was gonna say.
- [48:08]
C
But there's not. What I'm saying is there's not a lot of really, really talented practitioners. Think about it in a different way. If you had cancer, God forbid, or you had a problem with your heart, or you, you know, you're a professional baseball player and you tore your, you know, ligaments, your ACL or your rotator cuff, you would want to go to the person that, you know has done that surgery and fix that. That problem. Right. You wouldn't want to go to a local orthopedic surgeon who, yeah, he can do the surgery and do it. Fine. When you do orthodontia or Invisalign, which is the same thing, my only suggestion would be that you really have to go to somebody who's great. And the thing I don't like about Invisalign, and I see it at least once every single day, no matter what location I'm in. People come in, adults. They started Invisalign, they didn't want to finish it. It shifted their teeth, and it made everything worse. Or they did Invisalign. They followed the protocol. They told them it was going to be six to eight months, and it ended up being two years. And they can't even close their teeth because they have no bite in the back. And what went from A very simple 10 unit veneer or 4 unit veneer case now is a 28 unit veneer case. Because you have to reconstruct someone's bite. So number one. Yes. Invisalign with a great orthodontist and you buckling down and following through with it. The other option is braces on the inside of your teeth that people can't see. That's better. Because you have no say.
- [49:44]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [49:44]
C
You're not taking them off and you.
- [49:45]
B
Just have to follow treatment compliance wise. Yeah. Interesting.
- [49:49]
A
So if you had an 11 year old son like I do and you had to choose between Invisaligns and braces.
- [49:56]
C
Braces.
- [49:56]
A
There'd be no question.
- [49:58]
C
No question. Wow. No question. Please. He's not going to wear the Invisalign.
- [50:04]
A
Okay. Let's pretend you're in an alternate universe.
- [50:07]
C
Love that.
- [50:08]
A
Where you personally, unfortunately you've lost all your riches and you cannot afford veneers.
- [50:14]
C
Got it.
- [50:15]
A
But you're not happy with your smile. So what would you do to get the best possible smile that you could possibly achieve on a budget?
- [50:24]
C
What's the budget?
- [50:26]
B
Good question.
- [50:28]
A
Let's see.
- [50:29]
B
Canadian dollars or US Dollars.
- [50:31]
A
You're on a teacher's salary. Let's say that.
- [50:34]
C
Okay. Invisalign and bleaching.
- [50:37]
A
Yeah.
- [50:38]
C
Yeah.
- [50:38]
A
Okay. Yep.
- [50:40]
C
But again, like in office bleaching. Yep. Okay, but it doesn't have to be.
- [50:44]
A
Yeah.
- [50:44]
C
To be honest, in office bleaching is, let's call it a boost to wearing the trays at night for at least an hour or two consecutively. Seven to ten days. You'll get a much stronger, longer lasting result doing it that way. Yeah.
- [51:00]
A
Great.
- [51:01]
B
What are three habits that you personally, as the top cosmetic dentist would never do?
- [51:07]
C
Drink out of glass straws.
- [51:10]
A
Really? Yep. Why?
- [51:12]
C
Chips your teeth.
- [51:13]
A
I gotta get rid of those.
- [51:15]
B
Maybe that's what happens.
- [51:16]
C
It's the latest craze. It's the latest craze.
- [51:20]
A
Yeah.
- [51:20]
C
Yeah. Nobody wants plastic anymore. So every summer especially, people come back from Europe with their glass bottles with broken teeth and glass straws. Bite my fingernails. Chips your teeth?
- [51:33]
A
Really?
- [51:34]
C
Yep. And the third thing that I would recommend is to wear a night guard. So it's not really answering your question. What I would never do. But a night guard acts as like a retainer and prevents against all of the shifting that causes all the problems later on in life.
- [51:55]
A
Yeah.
- [51:55]
B
Good to know. Well, I do need to ask you, because you mentioned it, you're launching Appa Beauty.
- [52:00]
C
It's been out for a while. It's a oral Caroline that we've had honestly since 2015.
- [52:07]
B
Okay.
- [52:08]
C
We've just been not having enough time to give it the full attention that it needs. So we have a couple great things. So first of all, I mean, the first thing that people talk about when they're like, what are tips and tricks that you can do?
- [52:22]
B
Yes.
- [52:23]
C
To have a great smile. Well, the number one tip is to brush your teeth. Yeah. Right. With an electric toothbrush. And so I find it interesting that people have, myself included, you know, 10, 15, 20 minute skincare routines they do, without a doubt, every single night. Right. But really it's like they can't be bothered to brush their teeth for the full two minutes. It's like a fast scrub. Throw the brush down. And by the way, your skincare stuff is also beautifully packaged and it's like a present every time you open a container of serum or whatever it is that you're buying creams and it's like displayed beautifully in your Venice, you open it up and it's engaging that you want to take care of your skin. Oral care has never been like that. So Jonathan Adler partnered with us with this beautiful Lucite holder that has the paste, the rinse with no alcohol, and a special gel for your gums that recreates healthy gums, which is an amazing product, beautiful electric toothbrush that you will see. So everything is meant to be displayed so that you get a little bit excited about taking care of your teeth. And then we have things like, like, you know, lip loofah, which is a lip scrub, lip shine, which is like a blue gloss that you put on that reflects light into your smile. I think we have one of the best lip balms out there beyond the blue lip shine. And then we have a tooth gloss, which is like a minty gloss that you can put directly on your teeth for a little fresh breath and a little shine to your smile.
- [54:01]
A
So love it. It's a full tooth care routine.
- [54:04]
C
Yeah.
- [54:05]
A
Yeah. And I love the Jonathan Adler. I need to get, I need to see this. And we will link to everything as well. Guys.
- [54:11]
B
Yes. And you have managed to scale. Haha.
- [54:15]
A
Your business.
- [54:19]
B
No, no, I'm coming in with the dad jokes. In la, New York, Miami, Dubai, how do you do it all?
- [54:26]
C
Yeah, it didn't happen overnight. Yeah. And people always forget that I've been doing this for a long time. I opened. I mean, I've been visiting a visiting doctor in Dubai since 2010. So it didn't happen overnight in that you make small strides, and that becomes your normal. And then you say, like, I can do more. And then you make a couple more strides, and then you start to realize that things like decision making are exhausting, Right? So you have somebody cook your food because you can't be bothered to sit and think, like, what am I going to eat? Because part of it is you need to eat the right things to have the right amount of food. Fuel that doesn't weigh you down, that keeps you energized, keeps your head clear. I have created a routine to where most of my life is on autopilot. Right? So my morning routine is the same. I, you know, I have homes in every place that I. I travel to, and they are set up exactly the same. The only way that I know where I am is where the sun is when I hit the shades, where it's coming in from the windows. I've worked really hard. I mean, look, I love this, and I wouldn't do it if I didn't. And so there are people that say, like, oh, I want to. I mean, you will. You will figure it out if that's truly what you want to do. And it is truly what I want to do. And I have figured out every way to try and make it as seamless as possible with as little stress as possible, which.
- [55:56]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [55:56]
B
So what's. What's the next stride? What's your next tiptoe into for 2026?
- [56:02]
C
I am actually going to Dallas on Saturday to look at space to build an office there.
- [56:09]
A
Okay, that's exciting. Well, before we let you go, we're doing a rapid fire. Yes. Myth versus fact.
- [56:15]
C
Yes.
- [56:16]
A
Here we go. First one. You still get cavities with veneers. Myth or fact?
- [56:21]
C
Fact. Ooh.
- [56:23]
A
Okay.
- [56:23]
B
Okay. Myth or fact. Repeated use of whitening strips or. Or other at home whitening products are damaging to your tooth enamel.
- [56:31]
C
Myth.
- [56:32]
A
Okay. For people who are sensitive to whitening strips, you can use them once a week instead of over consecutive days and still get great whitening results. Myth or fact.
- [56:43]
C
I would change that.
- [56:44]
A
Okay.
- [56:45]
C
I would say if your teeth are sensitive, use whitening strips that have carbamide peroxide versus whitening strips that have hydrogen peroxide.
- [56:54]
A
Okay.
- [56:55]
B
Ultrasonic dental pods are the best way to keep invisaligns and retainers clean. Fact.
- [57:01]
A
Chewing gum with xylitol is a solid way to help prevent cavities and maintain teeth health.
- [57:07]
C
Fact. And it creates salivary flow, which is also anti carious. Anti cavities.
- [57:12]
A
Okay.
- [57:13]
B
And chewing gum is. Okay.
- [57:14]
C
Very good. Really? Yep.
- [57:16]
B
Okay.
- [57:16]
A
Right.
- [57:17]
B
As a gum chewer, I like to hear that myth or fact veneers give you bad breath.
- [57:22]
C
They can. But any ill fitting dental restoration will give you bad breath.
- [57:28]
B
Okay.
- [57:29]
A
Yeah. Okay. And our last one, there's no such thing as ugly teeth, just poor teeth.
- [57:37]
B
Pores in quality or no, you know.
- [57:41]
A
They say meme going around and respectfully think there's no such thing as before.
- [57:49]
B
Yeah, no. Yeah. No, it's being rich is the best moisturizer as well. That's the other meme that's out there. Thank you so much for joining us. Doctor.
- [57:58]
C
Thank you for having me.
- [57:59]
B
We really, we really appreciate your time. And thank you for giving us a little scoop on what you're working on next.
- [58:05]
C
It's great. My pleasure.
- [58:06]
B
Thank you so much. All right.
- [58:07]
C
Thank you.
- [58:08]
A
Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog @breaking beauty podcast.com.
- [58:18]
B
While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss a.
- [58:24]
A
Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast.
- [58:31]
B
And did you know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.
- [58:36]
A
You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.
- [58:44]
B
And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.
- [58:54]
A
See you. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.