How-to Make Your Makeup Last Longer! A 101 Masterclass on Skin Prep, Primers, Powders & Setting Sprays with Makeup Artist Pro Ruby Hammer, MBE

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast: How-to Make Your Makeup Last Longer! A 101 Masterclass with Ruby Hammer, MBE

Released on July 16, 2025.

In this insightful episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcome renowned British makeup artist Ruby Hammer, MBE, to delve deep into the art of making makeup last longer. With over three decades of experience in the beauty industry, Ruby shares her expert tips on skin preparation, choosing the right primers and setting products, and maintaining flawless makeup throughout the day—even in challenging conditions like extreme heat.

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1. Introducing Ruby Hammer

Ruby Hammer, a global makeup artist and brand founder, brings a wealth of knowledge from her extensive career spanning editorial, commercial shoots, catwalks, and red carpets. Awarded an MBE in 2007 for her significant contributions to the cosmetics industry, Ruby is also celebrated for pioneering inclusivity in UK beauty products.

Jill Dunn highlights Ruby's impressive background:

"[Ruby] has been killing it in the game for so long. And in fact, she was awarded an MBE... for her long-standing contribution to the cosmetics industry." [02:11]

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2. The Importance of Skin Preparation

Ruby emphasizes that flawless makeup begins with proper skin prep. She likens preparing the skin to rendering a wall before painting—essential for a smooth and lasting finish.

Ruby Hammer explains:

"Before we get into cosmetics, every professional artist or anybody really has to step back into doing the prep. That prep is what's going to show the end result, whether it's going to last longer or be more dramatic." [08:35]

Do's and Don'ts of Skincare Application

• Do: Use a liquid exfoliant for quick and effective preparation, especially when time is limited. Ruby recommends products like Aveda's Botanical Kinetics.
• Don't: Skip the prep or apply too rich of a product that can cause makeup to slide or not set properly.

Carlene Higgins adds:

"I sort of don't wear [eye creams]. I save my eye creams for nighttime to avoid transfer." [09:51]

Ruby advises using eye creams judiciously:

"As long as you're light-handed and ensure it has sunk in properly before you makeup." [10:34]

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3. Choosing and Applying Primers

Primers play a crucial role in extending the longevity of makeup. Ruby discusses various types of primers tailored to different skin needs.

Ruby Hammer states:

"Primers are not just one. You can have a hydrating one, a mattifying one, one with SPF, or a blurring one. Find the one that's right for your skin." [16:36]

Primer Tips:

• For Oily Skin: Apply primarily to the T-zone to control shine without overloading other areas.
• For Dry Skin: Focus on areas like the cheeks to add hydration without making the skin look greasy.
• Application Technique: Use a thin layer to prevent a heavy, cakey appearance. Ruby suggests:

  "Take a little layer of it, not too much." [16:36]

Notable Product Recommendations:

• Laura Mercier
• Urban Decay
• Smashbox

Ruby also cautions against "sticky" primers popularized by platforms like TikTok, advising users to prioritize functionality over visual gimmicks:

"Setting sprays can be another option to preserve makeup and make it longer lasting." [17:58]

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4. Avoiding Makeup Caking

Caking occurs when makeup layers become heavy and uneven, leading to a patchy appearance. Ruby identifies common causes and solutions to prevent this issue.

Ruby Hammer explains:

"Probably the most important is lack of time. People are trying to speed walk this and don't take the effort needed, leading to caking." [25:55]

Strategies to Prevent Caking:

• Light Layers: Apply thin, even layers rather than thick amounts.
• Proper Blending: Ensure each layer sinks in before applying the next.
• Targeted Application: Focus on areas prone to caking, such as under the eyes and the T-zone, and blend well.

Julia Dunn emphasizes:

"It's all about the skin prep." [16:29]

Ruby adds:

"Use tools like Q-tips and small brushes to apply minimal product precisely where needed." [12:18]

---

5. Setting Powders vs. Setting Sprays

Choosing between setting powders and sprays depends on skin type and desired finish.

Ruby Hammer discusses:

"Translucent powders help set makeup without adding color, while colored powders can aid in slight color correction." [43:45]

Translucent Powders:

• Purpose: Set makeup and control shine without altering color.
• Application Tip: Use sparingly to avoid a white cast, especially on lighter skin tones. Ruby advises:

  "I use it very light-handed and apply it where it's needed." [46:24]

Colored Powders:

• Purpose: Correct specific skin issues like redness or sallowness.
• Application Example:

  "Use a pale pink or green to neutralize redness." [43:45]

Setting Sprays:

• Purpose: Lock in makeup and provide a natural or matte finish.
• Favorite Picks:
  • Charlotte Tilbury Setting Spray for a flawless finish. Ruby notes:

    "Let it dry and let it do its work." [41:02]

  • One Size Setting Spray for oilier skin types. [41:39]

Ruby cautions against trendy "water glitter" sprays, suggesting their effectiveness may vary:

"It has no bearing on the actual reality of wearing cosmetics as such." [36:13]

---

6. Mastering Lip Makeup

Ruby provides an in-depth approach to priming and setting lips to ensure longevity and a polished look.

Steps for Long-Lasting Lips:

1. Exfoliation: Ruby recommends using a lip scrub or a moisturizing mask to smooth out dry, peeling lips.

   "Use a lip scrub or a thick layer of product, leave it on, then gently remove the excess." [52:04]

2. Application: Apply lip product with precision using a brush for control.

   "Use a lip brush for precision and to deposit the right amount of color." [52:55]

3. Setting: Layer with a tissue and translucent powder to lock in the color without greasiness.

   "Separate a tissue into thin plies, place it over your lips, and apply powder through it." [54:22]

Ruby also shares tips on avoiding slipperiness and ensuring color stays in place:

"Don't apply too much directly; build the color gradually for a more durable finish." [34:54]

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7. Ruby Hammer’s Product Line and Future Plans

Towards the end of the episode, Ruby introduces her own line of makeup products designed for effortless application and long-lasting performance.

Dual-Ended Mascara and Brow Wand:

• Design: Thin, precise brushes tailored for defining lashes and brows without clogging.
• Inspiration: Developed from techniques used in high-pressure environments like red carpets, ensuring reliability and ease of use.

Ruby emphasizes her brand's ethos:

"Make it similar to how you do your wardrobe... essentials that hold a place and can be built upon." [57:44]

She encourages blending her products with other brands to enhance versatility and outcomes:

"I carry things in my kit that other brands successfully provide and add mine to it." [58:31]

---

Conclusion

This episode serves as a comprehensive guide for anyone looking to extend the wear of their makeup through meticulous skin preparation, strategic primer and setting product selection, and precise application techniques. Ruby Hammer’s expert insights, backed by her extensive experience in the beauty industry, provide listeners with actionable tips to achieve a flawless and enduring makeup look.

Notable Quotes:

• Ruby Hammer: "Primers are what's right for your skin... Find the one that's right for your skin." [16:36]
• Carlene Higgins: "Your skin is a living thing... manipulating it to a degree." [12:55]
• Jill Dunn: "It's all about the skin prep." [16:29]

For more detailed product recommendations and exclusive promo codes mentioned in this episode, visit the Breaking Beauty Podcast website at breakingbeautypodcast.com.

Transcript

[Carlene Higgins]

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome to Breaking Beauty the Podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hello and welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast, everybody. I'm Carlene Higgins and I'm here with my lovely co host, Jill Dunn.

[Jill Dunn]

Hey there, Carlene.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hello. Hello. And we are two beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. Back in your feeds this sunshiny Wednesday with another episode about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, and I feel like some of my favorite episodes to do are really 100 ones, like getting back to basics, especially when it comes to makeup. And that's what we are delivering today. And you're in for a delight because it's really a mini masterclass all about priming and setting your makeup the right way so it lasts through the hot, hot heat. And our guest, it's honestly an honor to have her here. It's British makeup artist who's frankly iconic. Ruby Hammer.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. Ruby Hammer is a global makeup artist. She's a brand founder and a Beauty expert with 30 years experience in the beauty industry. So she's worked across editorial, commercial shoots, catwalks, red carpets, and she's frequently on television and in the UK to help to teach people to embrace and enhance their natural, unique beauty. That's what she's really known for.

[Jill Dunn]

And she, I could have talked to her for hours because she has been in industry for so long. Like she used to work with Orbe and she has these like cool little compacts of some of Orbe's original products and she used to work for Aveda. Like she's just been killing it in the game for so long. And in fact she was awarded an MBE that is the member of the Order of the British empire back in 2007 from Queen Elizabeth herself. And Ruby received this award for her long standing contribution to the cosmetics industry. And she really helped pioneer the movement toward inclusivity in the beauty industry in the uk.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. She has her own line of makeup as well called Ruby Hammer. She launched it in 2019, but before that, Ruby had a makeup line called Ruby and Millie that was sold at Boots. You might remember that, Joe.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yes. I was obsessed with UK magazines and I would always see it in there.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. It was the first makeup line to embrace diversity and cater to a range of skin tones at an affordable price point as well. So she just, her experience is like almost unmatched.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And today we're going to find out a little bit more about the hero product in her eponymous line. And Carlene, you were raving about this line earlier this year, which kind of helped put Ruby Hammer on my radar because at the beginning of the year you were like, these products are just made for the modern woman. Like, she's these really cool blush sticks that are just very easy. One swipe and I think she's really. Yeah, yeah. Like, I really think she's thinking about the modern woman who loves makeup but isn't a makeup artist. She's kind of thought two steps ahead to make it easy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right? Yeah, I really like the dual ended like mascara and brow wand in one. And so, yeah, I love that she's just all about education. So when you see her, like, if you follow her on social media, Ruby Hammer is giving like these accessible tips for like the everyday woman. So I personally really relate to that. We're gonna find out what's the hero product in her eponymous line today, which, by the way, is, it's vegan, it's sustainable, obviously performance driven. Because she's a makeup artist. And the topic of the hour, we're going to find out everything to learn about how to make our makeup last longer, even in the heat, starting with skin prep, which primer to choose for your skin types. She's going to share her techniques for avoiding pilling, caking, and when to choose setting powder versus setting sprays. And finally, what to carry in your going out purse to make sure your makeup looks as good at 9pm as it did at 9am yeah, it's that.

[Jill Dunn]

101 Primer episode, quite literally. So everything that Ruby mentions, we will link to it on our website site. We will also publish this episode on our YouTube channel. Bless Ruby. She was so kind and came to the basement of my condo. And I'm getting quite a roster of famous beauty faces that have come to the basement of my condo. Dr. Dennis Rose, Mona Katon, Ruby Hammer.

[Carlene Higgins]

We need to start taking those Polaroid pictures again and putting them up on the wall.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, it was very kind and gracious of her to come to my humble abode. So we really are so thrilled for everyone to hear this conversation.

[Carlene Higgins]

Just ahead, here she is, Ruby hammer. Hi, I'm Dr. Will Cole. As a leading functional medicine practitioner, I have had the unique position to see so many alchemize their pain and health problems to their purpose. Now I want the same for you. This podcast is the manifesto for a new breed of health seekers where there is a fresh infusion of grace and lightness into wellness. This is the art of being well. Join me every Thursday for a new episode.

[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

Welcome to the show. Ruby Hammer. We're so excited to welcome you from the uk.

[Ruby Hammer]

First of all, thank you so much. I'm absolutely thrilled to be with you ladies. I hear so many good things. So I was like, wow, okay.

[Jill Dunn]

You should know right off the hop, British people are our favorite guests.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes, yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Jill always says that British people just.

[Jill Dunn]

Know how to chat.

[Ruby Hammer]

There's like until the cows come by. This is.

[Jill Dunn]

Regale me with a tale. Tell me an anecdote. I love it all.

[Carlene Higgins]

And she's also, she's always saying how the British people have less bs. Yes, they just say it like it is.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, there's no bullocks around here, Ruby.

[Carlene Higgins]

But anyway, welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast.

[Ruby Hammer]

I'm absolutely thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you. We're going to be talking all about sett and priming like a pro today, which you are. So let's kick it off with skin prep. What are the do's and don'ts of skin care application that lead to the most even makeup coverage that lasts?

[Ruby Hammer]

Well, I think everyone, when they know you're a makeup artist or something like that, the first thing they do is, oh, what are the right colors for me is this, this, what do I use here? And then I have to say to everybody, whoa, hold it back a second. Before we get into cosmetics, every profess, professional artists, or anybody, really, it's. You have to step back into doing the prep. That prep is what's going to show the end result, whether it's going to longer lasting, whether it's going to be soft or more dramatic. Whatever it is, the prep is like rendering a wall. You wouldn't paint a wall without filling the gaps, right? Putting in the polyfiller where it needs it, smoothing some areas, you know, you have to do that. Then you get a very smooth, nice wall.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's so true.

[Ruby Hammer]

Same with your face. And the face is not an inanimate object. It's full of muscles, veins, you're breathing, it's shifting. So even more important, take the little bit of time to do the prep. So sometimes it's short term, just what you do just before your makeup, and sometimes it's long term about your skincare routine and your lifestyle to fix that face.

[Carlene Higgins]

And so let's get into a little bit more specifics. Are there eye treatments that you would or wouldn't recommend before makeup? Because I sort of don't wear. I save my eye creams for nighttime to avoid transfer. But we've talked to a lot of makeup artists and they do use certain eye creams. So I wonder what you.

[Ruby Hammer]

I think I do prep with an eye cream and sometimes an eye patch or mask, especially for someone who is slightly puffy or if they got dark circles, anything that will help that area be smooth that you, you do add. And it all depends on time. So sometimes you don't have that much time.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

It might just be massaging your moisturizer all over, but doing some draining techniques.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

To make render that area smoother. I think it just can't be too rich. So you're right in what you're doing because you don't want that transfer and you don't want then your concealer not lasting, your foundation mixing away. So as long as you're light handed and you make sure that has sunk in properly before you get which one.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you reach for the most with your clients?

[Ruby Hammer]

So I have one from, it's like from Bobby Brown and they do a face cream and then they do the eye one. So I kind of like that. Just tapping it under.

[Jill Dunn]

And there's kind of yellow.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes, it's more yellow than the face one. The face one looks cream and this one looks like it's gone off. But it hasn't. It hasn't, it hasn't. So you just tap a bit. But not again with everything I try to show people that don't just take a big amount, you can build, you can always add more. It's really hard to repair something you've put too much on. So just to tap.

[Jill Dunn]

And for our listeners who may not be watching this on YouTube, but you should, Ruby is signaling with her hands.

[Carlene Higgins]

What she would be doing, which is function like tap.

[Jill Dunn]

So it's like even how much you're picking up, it's like out of the jar a little bit like a pea size. Not even.

[Ruby Hammer]

Not even. Yeah, not even. It's, it's a lot less than you think because you can always, if you've used it and you feel, oh, that hasn't gone everywhere, then you take a tiny bit more. But I usually use a Q tip.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

And I just do that amount. Yeah, on a Q tip. Just like that.

[Jill Dunn]

For the whole face? No. Under the eye.

[Ruby Hammer]

No, just for the eyes. And for both eyes. Yes, that'll be more than enough for both eyes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And do you let it sit for a bit before you start putting on foundation?

[Ruby Hammer]

Just a little. Just allow it to sink in. Just so that it's not sitting, that you don't see it glistening. You catch the light and work it in. Same with the cream. I do use a little bit and I really, I'm not quite hard, but when I massage it in, people can feel, oh, you've got some good hands. And I said, yes, I'm not moving it aggressively, but you have to work it in.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, yeah, you made such a good point too. Like people forget, like skin is a living thing and it's like it's an organ.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

So you're manipulating it to a degree.

[Ruby Hammer]

Oxygen, all of that. And I think people forget that. And it's, it's working the emotions. Sometimes your skin is fantastic. You might be eating right, you may be In a good place. You're sleeping well, you're taking your vitamins, you're exercising, all of that. And then there's other times when it's stress or we might be going through the menopause or whatever it is that has suddenly made that organ a little bit more vulnerable.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

So that's.

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, your skin. Your skin is incredible.

[Jill Dunn]

Seeing you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Seeing you.

[Jill Dunn]

Look incredible.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, my word.

[Jill Dunn]

I need to ask you about exfoliating in the makeup artist's chair. What do you do if someone comes to you and it's very patchy or dull and it's. They or it's a model and they've been all over the place and their skin is just. It needs a little judging more than moisturizer. What do you do in the chair.

[Ruby Hammer]

When they come like that? It's. You haven't also got the luxury of the time to do a facial. So anything liquidy, like I will use a liquid exfoliant because I might not have time to put a gritty one on a mask for 25 minutes so that she can really indulge or he can really just. Just. So I will use something like my Aveda exfoliant, which is a liquid form one, something like that. So you clean and then I dip in. So it can get a lot of that scruffiness off without aggressing. You don't want to make it worse.

[Carlene Higgins]

This one's called botanical kinetics.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes, Exfoliant, botanical kinetics. And it's a. It's a liquid exfoliant. So anything like that.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

Is nice because it does the job quickly.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

And prepares that surface as best as you can. And then I would advise that way, young lady, or young man, or whoever you are, or old lady, drink water and get this going a little bit more so that you're not. The skin takes 28 days to turn. You know, the cell turnover, and you don't want to pull it before it's ready to come off, but when it's ready to come off, you don't want those layers sitting there because that's what gives you a dull, lifeless.

[Carlene Higgins]

So do you explain once a month?

[Ruby Hammer]

No. I would say if you've not got sensitive skin, you should do once a week so that you are cleansing twice a day, not so harshly in the morning, but definitely at the end of the day to get rid of the sun protection makeup that you may have on or SPF that you may have, you've got to get that as clean as possible so that the other richer treatment products you're going to put on, have a chance to sink in and repair while you sleep in the daytime. If you've cleaned your skin thoroughly the night before, I don't believe you need to do a double cleanse. Then. What have you just done? It's just a bit of sebum and a bit of your dead cells coming. So it's just a lighter wash. Something fresh.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

And feels good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

Or whatever your facialist has recommended for you. Then you follow that pattern.

[Carlene Higgins]

I have so many skin questions for you. I can't believe you said you're 63.

[Jill Dunn]

I need to ask one more question. After this exfoliating toner, what are you putting on?

[Ruby Hammer]

Then? I will put on a dot of. I, you know, I will have seen by then that she needs a little bit of eye cream, a bit of moisturizer, maybe a serum, maybe a bit of oil. All depending on. Yeah. But sometimes I'll just put a drop of the oil and mix it with a. With the moisturizer and massage that in from chest up.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Because I think, as someone speaking for myself, oily skin, it is just like you're just afraid of the slip and slide. Right. Of your makeup going down your face. And it's this. It's all about the skin prep. Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

So that's that part of the nourishing, hydrating part of the skin prep. The next step thing is whether. Do you add a primer.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

Which is a separate category in itself, which will make your makeup longer lasting if you're a bride. I advocate that because it's usually a long day. If somebody is going, oh, we're going to be out and about for a long, long time. Yes. Or if you know that you have a particular skin issue. So primers now are not just one. You can have a hydrating one that will help in the dry areas. You can have a mattifying one. You can have one with spf. You can have a blurring one. Find the one that's right for your skin and then you could apply that. A little layer of it, not too much. Sometimes they correct us. You know, it might have green tone just to take away the redness that somebody has naturally, or they're going through rosacea or they're going through their menopause and it's having a hot flush or something like that, so you correct it. But the other thing that's come out is you have sprays that you can do at the end of your makeup to preserve it and make it longer lasting. But also there are tricks or hacks as they're saying that you could do that right now too. So you can. If you don't use some sort of cream or that sort of primer, you could do a fine mist and then.

[Carlene Higgins]

Put your makeup on top.

[Ruby Hammer]

The rest of your other makeup.

[Carlene Higgins]

Are we talking about a setting? A setting spray?

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

So you could start with a setting. You could start interesting.

[Ruby Hammer]

Some people. So it's just. It depends how long lasting you want that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

Skin to be.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Well, you know that mist and fix from makeup forever.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

A lot of makeup artists will use that first.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, got it. I think for a lot of people, they don't want to add an extra layer of cream because it just feels like you're. It's almost like putting on too much nail polish where you're. You start getting too many layers and it just. It starts gunking up. So I've never been a huge primer person myself, but what are some of your go tos for your oily skin clients versus, let's say, your drier menopausal clients?

[Ruby Hammer]

So I. I love from Laura Mercier because they have quite an array of them. You know, she was one of the first people that started a primer. Then you've got the lovely ones from Urban Decay and then Smashbox. But the trick is not too much, so you mustn't see it all sitting in a big, heavy layer. And maybe predominantly with the drier skin, it's mostly on the cheeks and where you need it. And if you have oily skin, it's mostly in that T zone.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

Nobody needs it all over. You can just really do. And, you know, like, I know. I don't know why, but if I get very hot and bothered and I don't have very oily skin or not very dry skin, because I try to take care of that. But if I get hot and sunny, I get this beading.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

So I know. This is how I can relate it. Yeah. So everyone knows what skin is like. Pay attention to that and then get the primer that suits.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, absolutely. What do you make of the category of sticky primers? This is a huge thing right now.

[Ruby Hammer]

This is a new. Thank you Milk. You know, sit there. But. So I've tried that one and I do. I do like it. And then I had to try another one another day, and I think it was from Maybelline, so it was a bit more accessible.

[Carlene Higgins]

There's one from Elf.

[Jill Dunn]

Right. That is.

[Carlene Higgins]

That looks.

[Ruby Hammer]

So there are some to fit everyone's budget. I think this One says, oh in the claim, it says 24 hours. And I'm like, who needs a 24 hours? Like, they want you to say it's going to grip that much, that's how long it's going to last. Which is fantastic. But it's another. Anything that gives choice.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

I don't think you. You're going to put on eight layers of different primers, are you? It's just what you're going to know. And that's where I love the little Sephora when you check in out to get these minis. So try. Because they are available in little mini. Try that, see if that works for you before you go and get the huge big.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right, yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, can I just ask one thing before we move on? What about your favorite SPF under makeup? What do you think lasts or makes the makeup look the best?

[Ruby Hammer]

You see, everyone's skin is not the same. So again, if somebody is oilier, they're going to want one that gives a slightly more mattifying one. Somebody very dry. They're like, oh, my God. And you put the. They're going to want some a bit more potent. One of the newer ones I love and it is. The worst thing about it is the cost is the Augustine as Bada one is a new one, but I tried that one. Yeah. How that makes your skin feel and it's like velvet is smooth. You're like, oh, my God, this is great. But your regular everyday, which you need to wear an SPF every day, is too expensive. But there's some great ones from La Roche Posay. There's someone from Avene. There's a. There's a l' Oreal one, you know the one you shake.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

There is one from Allies of the Skin, which is a very matte one, which is fantastic. Again, so again, you pick. There are. I always say to someone, make the effort. Like, you don't need to find out what 10 other people are doing. Work out what works for you and then know that my needs are this and then get the product that best suits that.

[Jill Dunn]

That's not how we are. We want. We are saying, we want the experts to tell us. Like, everybody is like that. Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

Sometimes the expert doesn't know this is true the way you know. So to help, like, I'll give you an example. God forbid you need to go to your doctor, you have a problem when you've made the appointment, you've got through the door, you've sat there, you're on one side, they're on the other side. Do you just sit there and go, look out, what's wrong with me? Right, you don't do. You're gonna have to say I have a pain here or I can't seem to do this or I can't. So you're gonna have to give some information as honest as you can. This isn't about trying to. Same with any expert. Don't try to be, oh, I use this, I do, you know, whatever, just be as honest. No, I don't use any bloody skincare or haven't done or I've fallen off the wagon or whatever. As honest as you can, the best information as you can, then you're liable to get the best out of that expert. Know yourself and your skin, your hair, your and what you like, don't like better than that experts. And the more you can give them guidance then they can tailor it for you. And if they're not able to do that, they're not much of an expert, are they?

[Jill Dunn]

Right, indeed.

[Ruby Hammer]

Save me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Today's episode is brought to you in part by Medicate. So Jill, we've been talking to Ruby Hammer today. She's one of the UK's best exports when it comes to makeup artists. But let's talk about one of the best British skin care exports. It's got to be Medicaid. It's the clinically proven British skincare brand known for age defying results. Everything is dermatologist recommended. And you keep stealing all the of my products.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, sorry. Not sorry about that. But yeah. What I really appreciate about Medicate is my skin loves their products and I think they just really do formulation super well. They're giving you those really potent actives, you know, peptides, vitamin C, retinol. But my sensitive skin can tolerate it.

[Carlene Higgins]

What about the new C tetra advanced gel serum? It pairs 20% powerful and stabilized vitamin C with barrier supporting phyto exosomes. So important because a lot of skin types have a hard time tolerating vitamin C. So what have you been finding?

[Jill Dunn]

I definitely noticed that I had some inadvertent sun exposure this summer. So it was kind of a perfect time to be trying this product. And I noticed within about one week the dark spots I had sort of around underneath my eyes and on my face, forehead. I noticed those were faded which was great. So I'm excited to continue on this journey. It was also about my skin texture. Like my pores looked a lot better. It's smooth skin texture and it improves wrinkles in just one week and I definitely noticed a softening of the lines on my forehead. Plus it's not greasy at all with this gel serum. So it goes really well under makeup. Speaking of ruby hammer and under sunscreen.

[Carlene Higgins]

Vitamin C and sunscreen, the perfect one two punch. So if you want to try it for yourself. Medicates C Tetra Advanced Gel Face serum is available online at Medicate US. That's M E D I K and the number 8 US use code breaking 20 for 20% off your order.

[Jill Dunn]

We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

Let's talk about makeup caking because this is so common with people. So what are we getting wrong and how do we avoid that?

[Ruby Hammer]

Probably the most important is lack of time. So you probably don't do that if you take the effort and the time. So people are trying to speed walk this. They want to look fantastic and it's got to last the whole day. But we're going to just do this as quick as we can get out of here because you've got your brain turning away doing what we have to achieve. So that's one, two is you may be using all the right products but how heavy handed are you? So you need to be light and thin layers, not one thick heavy glob. And the more is on there and you haven't allowed it to sink in is when that caking is going to happen. And also you need to check which area you're more prone to caking. And it's usually around here.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, your marionette chin and then under.

[Ruby Hammer]

The eye, you know. Yeah, not people don't normally cake here in that part of the cheek. So when you know that it's those areas be less. Make sure you actually look and that you've blended this area, especially the T zone there and under the eyes. Sometimes I do it and say it's a concealer. I do a layer of foundation first. If you're going to do foundation and concealer, foundation goes on first, nice and light handed an even tone. It'll have taken out 80% of that uniformity, brightness. It doesn't have to be everywhere. It could just be finger dipped or with a sponge, with a brush, whatever hint of it. Then you need your concealer to do the work that's needed on your other areas. So is it dark circles or is it pigmentation or is it puffiness or is it an actual blemish? Like I have a nice fine one on my nose here. But whatever that is that you need to. So you need the appropriate concealer to hide it. Then you will need a translucent powder of some sort to set that all in place. But the nicest time to do that is just as I'm going to set it, I just look again. In the time it's taken. It could be five minutes, it could be in half an hour. Because you're doing all this. Just take a little Q tip and run it along there so there's no excess. Smooth it out with a sponge or a Q tip and then set it. That should help the caking, that. Not that you've seen it, you've registered it. I'm still going to just put the powder on. Yeah, we find. So it's. It's exactly that. Kind of. To make you pay heed. Because I think a lot of us, whether you're a just I only have a few products that don't use much makeup or I'm a full blown, I'm going to use a lot of. We kind of sequentially, religiously empty our bag out and we feel we have to use every single thing in that sequence that we use every single day. Your mind floats off. You're not actually looking and seeing what is there. Whereas as a paid expert, I have to look. I can't drift off and think about, oh, I've got to send that email. You have to really look and look for 30 seconds. Five seconds. Oh, that is puffy. I need a bit more there. Yeah, that could do with another layer.

[Carlene Higgins]

Good lighting too.

[Ruby Hammer]

I mean, even lighting. So it's not above you, it's not on. Just on one side of you. So it's not silhouetted.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Ruby Hammer]

It's as uniform. Great in daylight, if you can. If you can't. There are lots of lovely little small things you can get now so that you've got good light.

[Jill Dunn]

What's your favorite brush to use for setting?

[Ruby Hammer]

It's so funny. I. I was trained and I used to use a puff.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

And the technology has advanced so much that the powders are milled so nicely and without talc and things like that. So I don't need to go puff, puff, puff. Sometimes I still do. It's my old technique that I can do it all over, but it's such a fine layer and then I do the rest. Or I use a little small brush. So it's not a big brush, although that's popular. Slightly fluffier that I then see where it needs it. So I can strategically put it where it's actually needed. And it might be these corners. It might be just a little Bit there on top of the brows. Not top of there, but right on my chin. Just where I see, okay, this needs that bit of powdering, right?

[Jill Dunn]

It's funny you talk about powder puffs because when I watch somebody like makeup by Mario or Hung Van Gogh do their work, they always have their powder puff, but they're removing product. They're not using the powder puff to put powder on their face.

[Ruby Hammer]

That powder puff, it's exactly for that. It's for placement. It allows you to softly, gently push the face around and you delicately take. And then they might do a bit of powder or not, but it's also fine tuning to your like. Oh, I could just buff away that. It's just a bit much or I just whisk that away.

[Carlene Higgins]

I was reading on your website that you have a like with like method for setting blush and that you'll actually sometimes use setting powder under blush. So tell us about that.

[Ruby Hammer]

The like on like means any. People always talk about cosmetics as only referring to color, but it's not just about color, it's about texture. Texture is as important as the choice of color. So if you have powder on and then you're going to put a cream blush on there, it will have jarring, it might streak, it might be something because some a cream is going on top of a powder surface and vice versa. So what I like is if you're going to use a powder blush, then prep that area beforehand. So I would do a thin veil dusting of translucent powder to prepare that area. Bronzers that. This was my pet peeve from years ago when everyone would get a big bronzer. They do whatever or they just do skin care and then they put the bronzer on. I'm like, ah, that's going on top of your cream and your skin. Just take a little powder puff or take a whisk of translucent powder, dust it all over, make sure it's blended in and then put your powder bronzer all over. It'll get, it'll last longer. It will look smoother and more polished. Same with a blush. So if you're going to use a powder blush, I prepare the area beforehand. If it's going to be a cream blusher, No, I leave that until I'm done. So the cream goes in, then you look at it and you think, okay, that looks great. So it gives what that texture is supposed to do. Like always goes up to like and not just on cheeks. Same on eyes. If you're using a cream, eyeshadow or a pencil before powder shadow, prepare or just think about it. That's all.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Ruby Hammer]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Is this a cream blush we're looking at right here from. From your line?

[Ruby Hammer]

Well, I have three cream blushes, guys.

[Jill Dunn]

Everyone. They're so cute. They are like a little twist. They almost look like a twist up lollipop.

[Ruby Hammer]

They're like that. And you spin and it twists up. You don't have to spin it all the way up just a teeny bit.

[Jill Dunn]

But it's almost like a wider one.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

It looks kind of like your AirPods would go in like the wider one.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes, those.

[Carlene Higgins]

But it twists up like a lipstick. So that's so cool.

[Ruby Hammer]

It's. I love how makeup and packaging looks because I think we're drawn to. It's like anything else. Before we see what's inside. You do see what's outside. And there's some amazing formulas that are inside. Some shitty packaging and vice versa.

[Jill Dunn]

So.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, and so you talked about like with like. So this is. You have cream blushes at the moment in your line as opposed to powder. So how would we apply this and set it so it lasts all day? Because a lot of cream blushes just kind of evaporate on your skin.

[Ruby Hammer]

You said it. You said it. There are. Cream blushes are amazing because of their ease of use. It's so foolproof. You just use your finger and you do it and it allows you to apply. Apply very easily. But the more creamy and you are, the more easier they are to use. Sometimes they're not as long lasting.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

So this. Because I'm an expert and I'm such a fussy expert, this has a bit more pigment, but it allows you the ability to blend and soften it without. So the one thing I would say is don't take that and go straight on your part because you will end up with way too much. Yeah. I would use my finger or I would use a brush to just take a little bit. Smiling wherever you're going to put it on as we get older, shouldn't be so much on the apples of the cheeks. It's got to be a little bit at the edge of that and up. Not too near the eyes, not near the nose and not too low.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, because higher than the cheekbone.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yeah. Okay. And then just work it in. And because as an artist, I can't keep stepping in on set or on camera or on the red carpet with anyone. This is longer lasting. If you want it to have that bit more of a dewier effect, you can prep that skin beforehand. So not to be horrible to Someone like Merit who have some great lashes. And I have them, I love them. But they don't last.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, they do not disappear.

[Ruby Hammer]

They do disappear. I love it and I do have it, but I know that I wanted something.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

That has a tiny bit more longevity, staying power.

[Carlene Higgins]

And so do you. Do you just not need to set it at all?

[Jill Dunn]

You.

[Ruby Hammer]

If you did it on bare skin, you might not need to, because naturally your skin will secrete some moisture, some oil, whatever, and it'll get nice and dewy, but it should last. Or you might do two layers. So it's up to you how much you want to use. And if I'm doing everything else, I might just do a little dusting at the edge of it, just to keep it, to really make sure it's sealed and it's in there. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

What about eyes? Like, do you set eyeliner, liquid eyeliner, mascara, or. How do you avoid eyes? Yeah, how do you avoid.

[Ruby Hammer]

In the old days, there were some things where they used to heavily powder the lashes and then put the mascara on. And I think it was more to build the bulk. I don't know if it did any setting.

[Carlene Higgins]

This turned into a TikTok trend at one point. You know, these are sticking your wand into powder, setting powder.

[Ruby Hammer]

And this is the wonder of TikTok. They are such visually impressive. If I was on that show, and they go, let's make this drip and let's have the color. It's visually amazing. But I don't think it has any bearing on actual reality of wearing cosmetics as such. So I said, if you're going to apply that much product, wherever it is you're applying it, you're going to need a hell of a lot more elsewhere to match this. And it takes a lot of time to blend this down.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

And you might not succeed.

[Carlene Higgins]

Kids having fun on there, really.

[Ruby Hammer]

You know, it's just visually, it's.

[Carlene Higgins]

We used to have Barbies. Now they have TikTok.

[Ruby Hammer]

Exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's exactly.

[Ruby Hammer]

But it's part and parcel of that time.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. But do you have an eye primer specifically that you like?

[Ruby Hammer]

I. I think one of the original great ones was that urban decay one that came in a chair.

[Jill Dunn]

The little really good one.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes. So. But there are lots of other ones out there. I don't necessarily use an eye primer unless I know or somebody says to me when they're sharing, I have very greasy eyelids. And I think, okay, I'll get a primer. Just.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

Or it's a bride. So I ask her these questions. Beforehand I always do ask, are you allergic to anything? Are you wearing contact lenses? Any specific things like how does it normally last or wear with you? You glean the information you ask so that I can get some info back. Sometimes if you do a pencil and you want to smoke it out, then I might do a tiny dusting of powder and then put a powder shadow on top of it that will make it really, really long lasting. And people like Beyonce or Rihanna, when they're performing and they're sweating and all that, I'm pretty sure they use that technique. They would have something first grip it or set it with a pin and then they put pack on color shadow or something over. A liquid liner is the most dramatic form. So I don't think you need to set that with anything. A pencil liner you might, but you know you might go over again with just the same color shadow to make it more longer lasting. But liquid liner won't need setting. It is as dramatic as it's going to be.

[Jill Dunn]

Silk is supporting our show this week. I love taking a break from heat styling my hair. It's honestly liberating, especially in the summertime. And that's why I'm excited to introduce you to Silk because Silk London, they are the creators of 100 Silk Hair Tools designed to reduce breakage, tame, frizz and give you healthier, more beautiful hair while you sleep. And Silk was founded by top lunch London hairstylist Maria Satirio, who was inspired by her Caribbean heritage and the centuries old ritual of wrapping hair in silk to protect and nourish it overnight. Silk products are beloved by hair stylists and celebrities and their hero product, the hair wrap, is a cult favorite for overnight hair production because it really reduces that frizz, the dryness and the breakage while extending the life of your hairstyle. Whether that be a blowout or braids. For me personally, I am partial to the Silk heatless curler. It gives you these gorgeous big bouncy waves and it couldn't be easier. You just basically wrap your hair around the silk curling rod, you go to sleep and then you wake up, voila. Your hair is voluminous, bombshell, gorgeous. I appreciate the silk. It's not a gimmick, it's not a trend, it's not a short term fix. You're getting premium non heat tools that are actually supporting your hair's long term health. And we have an exclusive promo offer. If you want to try Silk for yourself, head to silklondon.com and use the exclusive code BEAUTY20 for 20 off your first order. That's S I L K E london.com and use code BEAUTY20. Once again, silklondon.comand use the exclusive code BEAUTY 20 for 20 off your first order. We'll link to this offer in our show notes and on our website now. Be back to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

Now. We've been talking a lot about setting sprays, which I gathered that's what you're going to use to set something like these multipurpose, these cream blushes, as opposed to a powder. Tell us what a couple of your favorites are. I find I can barely tell the difference between them, if I'm being honest. But which are the most effective?

[Ruby Hammer]

I think two that I really like is there's a Charlotte Tilbury one which is lovely, but again, not too near. You don't want to splash. You want to find mist and then let it dry, let it do its work. And I, I have to say, I pick and choose when I'm going to use them. So as a matter of course, I don't. Unless it's somebody on red carpet. Unless it's somebody on red carpet or somebody I know. Oh, my God, she's really going to need this. You know, she's a bride that's outdoors or this is going to be a long day for someone. And the other one is, I think it's called one size, which is.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh yes, of course.

[Ruby Hammer]

Which is fabulous. But it's also very good for if you are greasy or oilier skinned. It's not going to be great for somebody who has normal to dry skin.

[Jill Dunn]

Have you tried the water glitter version of that setting spray?

[Ruby Hammer]

I was thinking that, I was like.

[Carlene Higgins]

There'S no way now.

[Jill Dunn]

The antithesis of the Ruby Hammer especially.

[Carlene Higgins]

I agree.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm like, I'm guessing here people were using it Coachella and things like that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

But it like apparently locks your mate. Like people in the desert where it was 130 degrees, it was like nothing was moving.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hairspray for your face?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, it was just glitter gone wild. But it was really holding the makeup in.

[Ruby Hammer]

So I'm gonna have to go check that out. Then it was.

[Jill Dunn]

There was a few Tick Tock videos where girls saw Patrick Star there and they look, they were like driving by him and they saw him in the next car and they like rolled down the window and then like spray their whole face and he's like, oh, like a salute.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, my gosh.

[Jill Dunn]

I love that.

[Carlene Higgins]

I think that the reason people are looking for these recommendations so much is because the products are Expensive. And so they really want to know before they buy. And I. You can buy the as much as possible.

[Ruby Hammer]

You know, you limit the risk as much as you can. I get that. I do get that. But there is nothing like having that self knowledge and then having access to something so that really it's like people say the best recommendation is always word of mouth. So take that on. Not just. I wouldn't just be swayed because take any. Phenomenal, aren't they? They're social media phenomenon.

[Jill Dunn]

Exactly.

[Ruby Hammer]

And they are fun.

[Jill Dunn]

They take on a life with their own.

[Ruby Hammer]

Take you with a bit of pinch of salt that you think, I love you, Patrick.

[Carlene Higgins]

Setting powder, because we've been talking about that a lot today. And translucent powder. What's the difference between like the powders that contain some color versus a translucent set? Like. Yeah, like foundation powder or setting powder. I find it can be sometimes confusing because it's obvious on the label.

[Ruby Hammer]

Okay. So years ago you would have powder was just face powder. You know, it was used to mattify.

[Carlene Higgins]

Just translucent powder. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Some of it's white like Ben Nye.

[Ruby Hammer]

I feel like. So imagine it was like that was gonna be my Next even before Ben 9. So you'd think it would be someone like Max Factor created that first powder, you know, for film, for black and white photography and things like that. It would be to set the makeup and to take away the oil shine. As technology advances and there's a lot of talc in those ones. And if you were heavy handed, you look like a baker's assistant. You look like, oh my God, God, I'm a billboard doughboy. Technology has advanced and then they thought, why not introduce a bit of shade? Because it's true. Translucent means it's colorless.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

So anybody should be able to use it if you're light handed enough. And then the colored variety is because you're color correcting a little bit. So you had pale pink or green? Green to take out the red. There was like a lilac to add sallow skin that was a bit more yellow and peaky. A peachy one if you've got dark patches. And then people, because this is evolution, like in everything and technology and food and whatever it is out there, people think, gosh, wouldn't it be nice to have something that's for olive skinned or someone very dark skinned or something like that. So they started introducing that and now there are such beautiful formulas out there. Whether it's someone like by Terry or someone like Kossas or somebody. There are lots of them out there. That have colored specific for you. So I always have a translucent one in my kit. I've got a small size here, but I do have the big one if I'm going to be doing a lot from Laura Mercier. And then now they have blurring qualities. They have a honey, they have a deep. They have a list. They have a lot of. And that is just to shade match. Just do it quicker and more even. So you can have it. And some of the. I just pick. And you don't need a huge big one like a professional would do. So I think these travel sizes are fantastic to have because you don't go through that many. You really won't. Yeah, I take a long time to go through my big one. You need this size. So is that.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's my thing. I'm even. I'm a pale person. But I find that a lot of translucent powders don't look. It looks like it's going to give you a whitish cast that's going to dull your makeup.

[Ruby Hammer]

It shouldn't. It shouldn't.

[Carlene Higgins]

So, so there we need a recommendation. What's a good one?

[Ruby Hammer]

You shouldn't. And so I love that one from.

[Carlene Higgins]

The glow one or the regular?

[Ruby Hammer]

The regular one. And I use it very light handed and I just use it where it's needed. I don't put it on the cheeks here because I love that glow. I can see it on you. I can see it on you too. Just, you know, a teeny hint. You don't need it there, right? Nobody needs it there. Nobody needs it there. Nobody needs it there. Right there in a corner. Bit of the chin and then leave everything else. Unless, oh my God, I'm going to be doing a big concert, Beyonce style. Then I would do a light dusting all over and put stuff on and go over the edges again.

[Carlene Higgins]

I feel like, you know heritage beauty products very well because you've been working in the industry for over 40 years.

[Ruby Hammer]

Now and I'm still working. I'm not retired yet. Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

I was just going to ask if there were a few products that you would say have stood the test of time because there have been so many innovations like you were talking about innovations that you had from 20 years back. And things are constantly evolving. You know, you still see some products on the market like Guerlain meteorites. Like I always think about those, the little, little pearly balls which seem to have the color correcting. But to be honest, I've never understood that product because you swirl it and they're all coming off at Once is that I've never used it because. I don't know. I don't understand. It is a translucent powder.

[Ruby Hammer]

I mean, per se. It's not something I would use in my professional kit, per se.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Ruby Hammer]

It comes in a beautiful box.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's that stunning.

[Ruby Hammer]

Back to that dressing table. It looks like Hollywood. You know, it was a puff. It didn't have a brush. It would be a puff. And you'd go, yeah, you know, you'd.

[Carlene Higgins]

Marilyn Monroe.

[Ruby Hammer]

It's like that. And yes, it has different colored balls that were meant to. Correct, Right. Color, correct. You know, a little bit of that. But it also had a bit of sheen in it, so I couldn't control it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

So I think it was an indulgent, lovely dressing table. So the smell was a divine. It was a beautiful smell, you know, like. So it's more of that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Maybe put it on your chest, on your shoulders.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yeah. Dust it on your shoulders. Dust it on things. Dust it on your chest. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

But are there a couple of products that you would say legitimately are undupable and that have stood the test?

[Ruby Hammer]

Well, there's. There's some things like the fact that you've got a translucent powder. So they take the same ethos, you know, the thought, and then they've made it a better formula. So a translucent powder like that. Yes. You will find it in every artist bag. It's how they use it. But they will have that because it's a fine tuning tool. It helps us in a quick blend, smoother, overuse of something, whatever. It just is. I love something like Willida's skin food. I love the smell of it. And people go back again and again for that comfort. And you can't go wrong with that.

[Carlene Higgins]

They just went back to an aluminum tube, which I called it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Two years ago when they started, when they took it out of the aluminum tube and they put it in a plastic tube, I was like, what are you doing? That is a part of the lore. Essential.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

Part of the law.

[Ruby Hammer]

But what's inside there that. That works?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

The skin food. Then you've got something like Armani's luminous silk.

[Carlene Higgins]

We talk about it almost every week on the show, don't we?

[Jill Dunn]

Pretty much.

[Ruby Hammer]

I'm wearing it right now because it's a medium coverage. Yeah. You couldn't go back to it, and you can't do wrong.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

And people are always trying to dupe it. Like, there's so many that are trying to dupe it. Always, but they won't.

[Ruby Hammer]

It was made so that it was available to look fantastic in any light. So it was ostensibly for you're in the studio, but then those photographs would go on location. But that location might be a cold, could be skiing somewhere, or it could be some beach and Simba that had to look.

[Carlene Higgins]

These are Armani girls. They're jet setting everywhere.

[Ruby Hammer]

Black and white photography, color, you know, so it was all of that before we even get to having now where it's your phone or it's a selfie. Is that so it was that allowing us to know that if you've got that color right, it would look good in all kinds of different lights. So it's hard to beat that one.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

People go back.

[Jill Dunn]

I'll go even Pat McGrath. I could tell with her foundation she was trying to dupe that. And it's good, but it's. They're both $90 in Canada. I'm like, I'm just using the original. Like it's. It's not better.

[Ruby Hammer]

No.

[Jill Dunn]

Right, no, Exactly.

[Ruby Hammer]

So that is, you've asked for a few of those and those exist.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, good to know. Yeah. We can't let you go without asking about lips. The best way to prime and set.

[Ruby Hammer]

One of the first things is again, it takes us back to how we started this podcast is the prep. So if you have dry peeling lips, it's not going to be good. So at that time, either use a lip scrub or a thick layer of anything, put it on, leave it for a bit and then get a face flannel, there's warm water and just scuff it off. Just take the cells off as much as you can. So as soon as you have the smoothest lip, everything else you're going to put on, whether it's going to be 3 tons of gloss or whether it's a more elaborate lip color choice will go on smoother.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

Then if you put.

[Carlene Higgins]

You're doing this the night before or during the morning that night before.

[Ruby Hammer]

So that you've got a double chance of it actually sinking in and doing.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know, we've have some get your lineage lip mask. I think I saw that in your kit somewhere.

[Ruby Hammer]

I love that. Yeah, it's really good. Sometimes I use it just at the beginning of my prep for. It doesn't matter what I'm going to do. Maybe no color or full on color, but that mask seems to work. It doesn't need eight hours sleep. Yeah, it just works.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's true.

[Ruby Hammer]

And I leave it on thickly and I said, look, duh, I'm just going to do that. And then I'm going to wipe it off.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

Because if it's too greasy. Yeah, you're. It's not going to last.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

And then I think unless you're very, very thin lipped. I like putting the product, a lip product on first and then going over the edges with a pencil. Oh, interesting ones.

[Carlene Higgins]

You do a lipstick before lip liner.

[Ruby Hammer]

I apply with a lip brush because I think it gives you a bullet, is the way our grandmothers and how it looks so great. The bullet looks great and it does deposit a lot of color and you can do. But a brush gives you that precision and it doesn't have to be fully defined. You can buff it away. So that gives you control. And you can edge and you can. If it's not smooth and even, you can go a bit over here, go a bit over there, up one layer. Then I would take a tissue and separate it into the thinnest ply. Usually they're three tiered. So you take it, not the thick one, just a thin layer, put it over your lip blot. You can put a bit of powder through that as a mesh. You've seen that before. Where they've got the color and you hold it fine layer and reapply color. That will give you double layers. It will make the color stronger and longer last. Then I go with a pencil to just fill in and define the edges so that it doesn't spread, gives you the line and doesn't bleed. Or you get a product beforehand to do that. You can get some clear ones, but sometimes they work. But they're also a bit drying. You know, they. They're like a lip putty. So. Yeah, they kind of do jam and jar a little bit.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

But if the trade off is for you to decide, do I want the stain on long or do I will I bear a little bit of.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Ruby Hammer]

Just not discomfort like lip coat used to be. Oh, my God. That was a. Sorry lip coat. But it was like.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wait, what's lip coat? The peel off one.

[Ruby Hammer]

It was. No, not the peel off one. Like a liquid one you painted. It was vile. It was really.

[Carlene Higgins]

Did I miss that one? What was the one?

[Jill Dunn]

I feel like it's. It's just like from.

[Ruby Hammer]

I want to say I think it was. Yeah, it was. But I think it did exist in America that, you know, in North America. America. It was not very nice lip coat. Just take your time, do little layers. And if it's a lip gloss one, you can now do it almost with your eyes shut. Yeah, it's it gives you comfort. So just be prepared that, okay, I'm going to be there, but every so often I can just. It's done.

[Carlene Higgins]

Got it.

[Jill Dunn]

Ruby, tell us what's next from you, your brand and everybody that's. Maybe you're listening but not watching. All of Ruby's products really serve a purpose and they're really all about like effortless application. Like you talked about that mascara and brow duo.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I mean, yes, it's like dual ended, but it's like very different. The brush is teeny tiny.

[Ruby Hammer]

Very teeny tiny. They're micro spice.

[Carlene Higgins]

I love how tiny the brush is.

[Ruby Hammer]

To flesh that out. So.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, let's see it.

[Ruby Hammer]

See the, the eyebrow one is thin like that and the mascara is equally thin.

[Jill Dunn]

What was your idea behind this? Tell me.

[Ruby Hammer]

Well, when I. A lot of beauty shoots, it was. They come very close. You can't have it all cloggy and, you know, you don't have much time and they don't want to retouch. I used to use these tooth.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, the little tiny.

[Ruby Hammer]

So I would put in mascara.

[Jill Dunn]

Is it a flosser? I can't remember.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yeah, it's like a.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Ruby Hammer]

Flosser in between your teeth into dental.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, I see.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yeah, yeah. To put my mascara of choice. And then I'd apply it. Okay. So you, you could get right in the corners. You could do the lower lashes. You could go above, beyond, under, whatever. So that's inspiration for then when it comes to formula, I said I want a thin brush. I think there are some wonderful brands out there with tons of thousands of variations of lengthening, thickening, this one curling, lifting, whatever. I just wanted one that defined.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yep.

[Ruby Hammer]

And wouldn't clog, but gave. You brought out your.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

So it was from that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

A combination of that.

[Jill Dunn]

And so it's a dual ended everyone.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

And the. And so the other ones for your brows.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yeah, brow side is for your brows.

[Carlene Higgins]

And you're using that. It sets as well.

[Ruby Hammer]

Yes, it will set it. And that's what it's for. It. Will you brush it up or you can you apply your brow product of choice? That could be a pencil, that could be a powder, that could be a pomade, it could be a filling, whatever it is. And then you use that either on its own.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Ruby Hammer]

Or you use it to keep it in, you know, after the use of your brow product.

[Jill Dunn]

And this is genius. Especially if you have maybe thinner brows. Because even something like a boy brow that I've used, it's small, it's micro but yours is like mini micro.

[Ruby Hammer]

There's a, there's a, it's a kind.

[Jill Dunn]

Of a pointed tip on it and.

[Ruby Hammer]

It'S got that bit of a point at the end because the, because the boy brow is one size. So for somebody who has challenging brows, yours are great. Yours are great too. It would be nice. But you should see that. That's the thing. And the thing with brow products is also, I didn't like something that felt really crunchy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And gluey.

[Ruby Hammer]

And I didn't want it to dry and have like eyebrow dandruff. I didn't want that. So I wanted something that would make it last. But you can shape and angle it little here and there.

[Jill Dunn]

It's a very unique product.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Ruby Hammer]

Thank you.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's like minimalist, Minimalist beauty and very effortless.

[Jill Dunn]

You've done all the work, right. You knew what worked and you put it into this product.

[Ruby Hammer]

Exactly. And my ethos on cosmetics is like make it similar to how you do your wardrobe. Everyone, even if you have the most favorite item of clothing, you don't religiously wear it every single day. You don't. You have to launder it. You have to think of the occasion, you have to think of the season. Is it appropriate? Is it not? So think of cosmetics in that same way that you have some essentials that while you're experimenting and having fun with other things, but you go back to it and they, they hold a place in your wardrobe and some you can build on top of it or remove. And that's how I think as I'm gradually introducing something is not just for the sake of it. And there are so many lovely brands out there and I really do take my hat off to them. So I always have said that Ruby Hammer the brand as a makeup artist and a jobbing one. And I carry things in my care. I want this brand to be as well as not instead of. So I don't have items that other brands successfully provide and I'm happy to continue using theirs with pleasure and joy and add mine to it and I hope they give me the same grace.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, I love that. We really appreciate your time today.

[Carlene Higgins]

Love meeting you.

[Jill Dunn]

Thank you. And thank you for sharing all your, all of your amazing tips from your decades long, super impressive career as a makeup artist. So we know our audience will be loving all of these tips.

[Ruby Hammer]

Thank you.

[Jill Dunn]

Thank you so much for joining us.

[Ruby Hammer]

Thank you for having me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail] While.

[Jill Dunn]

You'Re there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a single thing.

[Carlene Higgins]

And get some social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast and did you know.

[Jill Dunn]

We also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Carlene Higgins]

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[Jill Dunn]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Carlene Higgins]

See you next Wednesday. Please note that this episode may contain.

[Ruby Hammer]

Paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services.

[Carlene Higgins]

Individuals on the show may have a.

[Jill Dunn]

Direct or indirect financial interest in products.

[Carlene Higgins]

Or services referred to in this episode.