Makeup Artist Ash K Holm on How-to Create a “Snatch-ural” Lifted Look, The Throwback Bronzer She’s Resurrecting and the Lip Combo Duo She’s Got Us Sharing in The Group Chat 💄

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast Episode Summary Episode: Makeup Artist Ash K Holm on How-to Create a “Snatch-ural” Lifted Look, The Throwback Bronzer She’s Resurrecting and the Lip Combo Duo She’s Got Us Sharing in The Group Chat 💄
Release Date: May 14, 2025
Hosts: Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins
Guest: Sheena Shay (Makeup Artist)

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Introduction

In this vibrant episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins welcome renowned makeup artist Sheena Shay, known for her work with high-profile clients like Ariana Grande, Kim and Khloe Kardashian, Demi Moore, and Shay Mitchell. Sheena shares her expert insights on achieving a “snatch-ural” lifted look—a seamless blend of natural beauty with defined, sculpted features.

Skincare and Base Preparation

Sheena emphasizes the foundation of any flawless makeup look: skincare. She highlights the importance of a hydrated base, especially when multiple layers of makeup are involved.

"You always want to start off with a hydrated base because there's a lot of layers involved to the technique that I like to do." (07:49)

For clients with dry skin, Sheena recommends the Elements Superfood Facial Oil for its soothing properties, followed by the Road Barrier Cream as an excellent lightweight moisturizer suitable for oily skin when used alone.

Foundation Choices

Selecting the right foundation is crucial for a natural yet lifted appearance. Sheena shares her top picks:

• Armani Luminous Silk: A versatile favorite that works across all skin types and is perfect for both red carpets and everyday wear.
• House Labs Foundation: Another staple in her kit, praised for its quality and adaptability.
• Pat McGrath's Foundation: A go-to for many makeup artists due to its superior performance.

"It's one of those foundations that you can always go back to. It's this tried and true product that makeup artists swear by." (08:16)

Contouring and Bronzer Techniques

Contouring is essential for sculpting the face, and Sheena distinguishes it from bronzing:

• Contour: Uses cooler tones to create shadows and define facial structure.
• Bronzer: Adds warmth, simulating a sun-kissed glow.

Sheena advises selecting contour shades based on skin tone:

• Cool Tones (e.g., Westman Atelier's Biscuit and Truffle, Dior's Contour Sticks) for lighter to tan complexions.
• Warm Tones (e.g., chestnut or mahogany shades) for deeper skin tones to enhance natural warmth without appearing ashy.

"Whenever I'm contouring, I like to reach for tones that are definitely in the cooler world... For someone with darker skin, I'm reaching for tones that are really warm, really rich." (17:01)

Bronzer Placement for a Lifted Look

Proper bronzer placement enhances the lifted effect:

• Top of the Ear: Use as a guide to apply bronzer in a 'C' shape across the forehead, cheekbones, and temples.
• Avoid the Neck: Keeps the focus on the upper face for a more youthful, lifted appearance.

"I connect that all throughout the forehead, bringing that underneath the jaw. I mix the contour in with the bronzer just right here." (23:10)

Blush Application

Blush placement further defines facial features:

• High Placement: Applied under the outer corner of the eye in a W-shape to lift the face.
• Blending: Ensures a harmonious transition between contour, bronzer, and blush without harsh lines.

"I would place it kind of like in a W shape right here under the eye and then going over the nose." (27:10)

Concealing for a Lifted Look

Concealer is pivotal in achieving a lifted visage:

• Application Technique: Apply concealer on the back of the hand first for better blending, then use a dense brush like the Morphe Concealer Brush to avoid over-application.
• Strategic Placement: Under the eyes up to the lash line and along the bridge of the nose to erase shadows and enhance the face's structure.

"You want to keep it as open as possible. If you have smaller eyes, you bring the liner halfway or a quarter of the way to open them up." (32:09)

Lip Enhancements

Sheena shares techniques for lip lifting without invasive procedures:

• Lip Liner: Create a V-shape above the cupid’s bow to lift the appearance of the lips.
• Hydrating Lipsticks: Opt for shades like YSL Candy Glaze in Shade 15 for a rosy, hydrated finish.

"It's shocking. You literally make your lips look even, powder, instantly ageless." (37:48)

Lashes: Mascara and False Lashes

Achieving luscious lashes is a key component of the lifted look:

• Mascara Application: Focus on wiggling the brush from the base to the tips to add volume and lift.
• False Lashes: Sheena endorses the Kiss Falscara Studio for its easy application and natural-enhancing effects, perfect for both everyday and glamorous looks.

"It's water-resistant and gives incredible long wear. It's like applying mascara without the clumps." (44:19)

Brows: Sculpting and Maintaining Lift

Well-defined brows frame the face and accentuate the lifted look:

• Technique: Draw fine strokes with a darker shade at the inner corner and lighter shades outward to maintain fullness and naturalness.
• Products: Utilize Kelly Baker Brow Pencils for precision and Got2B Gel to lock brows in place.

"It's important to have those strokes of hair. It's not just about filling, but creating the illusion of natural hair." (51:12)

Finishing Touches with Powder

Powder sets the makeup while maintaining glow and definition:

• Selective Application: Powder under the eyes, along the nasolabial folds, and in the T-zone to mattify without eliminating dimension.
• Preferred Powders: Sheena loves the Kosas Powder for its breathable, weightless feel and the Givenchy Loose Powder Reformulated for its talc-free, flawless finish.

"Keep some glow here because that's the dimension that you're going to miss after you do all of that." (57:19)

Common Makeup Mistakes to Avoid

Sheena highlights two major pitfalls that can detract from a modern lifted look:

1. Overly Heavy Lashes: Can make the eyes look closed and tired.
2. Carved Brows: Artificially high arches can give an unnatural Spock-like appearance.

"I would say an overly heavy eyelash. Sometimes it's a really heavy eyelash out in the wild, and I wish we didn't." (59:56)

Conclusion and Final Tips

Sheena wraps up with encouragement to embrace tools and techniques that enhance natural beauty without overdoing it. She emphasizes the importance of investing in quality brushes and being mindful of product application to maintain a fresh, elevated appearance.

"I feel like when you look at someone, that's the first thing that you see. Why not put emphasis on that area?" (03:10)

Notable Quotes

• Sheena Shay on Hydrated Base:
  "You always want to start off with a hydrated base because there's a lot of layers involved to the technique that I like to do." (07:49)

• On Contouring for Different Skin Tones:
  "When you have really fair skin, you have to be so careful about that...use two shades lighter than your foundation to highlight." (20:16)

• On Brows:
  "It's important to have those strokes of hair. It's not just about filling, but creating the illusion of natural hair." (51:12)

• Avoiding Heavy Lashes:
  "Overly heavy lash can make the eyes look closed and tired." (59:56)

Resources and Further Information

All products mentioned in this episode are linked on the Breaking Beauty Podcast website under the “Episode Recaps” section. Listeners are encouraged to visit breakingbeautypodcast.com for detailed product information and exclusive promo codes.

For visual learners, the full conversation is available on the podcast’s YouTube channel, allowing viewers to see live demonstrations of Sheena’s techniques.

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Transcript

[Sheena Shay]

The following podcast is a dear media production.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty the Podcast.

[Carlene Higgins]

All about the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins. Welcome back to Breaking Beauty Podcast everyone. I'm your co host Jill Dunn and I'm here alongside my lovely co host as always, Carlene Higgins. Hey Carlene.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hey Jill. And hello to our longtime listener listeners were two long time beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. And we're in your feeds sharing the breakthrough people, products and moments in beauty every single Wednesday. If you're new here, welcome to you too. We're often sharing hashtag Damn good finds. This is where we review what's currently popping off in the beauty aisles. We do those damn good episodes about once a month and we also interview top industry professionals. So these are trusted voices like a recent guest, dermatologist, Dr. Dandy Engelman, who chatted with us about how to transition to a spring skincare routine. We chat with hair pros like Harry Josh and celebrity makeup artists like our esteemed guest today, Ash K. Home.

[Jill Dunn]

Ash is a Los Angeles based makeup artist and really her ability to create glam looks, glowing skin that's really endeared her to her long list of celebrity clients. Everyone from Ariana Grande to Kim and Khloe Kardashian. You often see Ashley behind the scenes on the Kardashians on Hulu. Plus she works with Demi Moore, Lindsay Lohan, Shay Mitchell and so many more. And she's also a business owner. She and her husband own a med spa called Dripology that's in Santa Monica. I need to check that out next time. And she's a frequent collaborator with a lot of big brands like Vaseline, Ipsy, Morphe, Kiss Lashes and many more.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes, Ashes celebrity clients book her time and time again for her quote unquote natural looks. The way that she can really make the faces look effortless. But lifted is so enviable. So in today's conversation, we're getting all of her secrets for that naturally lifted look through the magic of makeup.

[Jill Dunn]

And one of my favorite things about Ash. And by the way everyone, you can watch this whole conversation on our YouTube channel, which is Breaking Beauty Podcast. So please subscribe while you're there. And you can see Ash and see all of the gestures she's making as she's talking. She really has that, that natural, incredible talent as an artist, but she's also so good at education and communicating how to achieve the looks that she's talking about and the looks she's creating. The technique she's using. And there's something about makeup artists who, yes, work with celebrities, but also have a big following on social media. The way that they can communicate about their looks and make you feel like you can achieve that look too. It's really empowering. Like another person. Like that is a Katie Jane Hughes. Like, just giving you those snippets of information. Information. You're like, yes, I can apply this to my own everyday makeup routine and make me look like I'm red carpet ready, you know?

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely. This is why Lisa Eldridge will always be top in my books. To get on the show as well, we need a trip to the uk.

[Jill Dunn]

Hell, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

But anyway, no. Ash is fantastic and she really delivered today. And we get tips from Ash regarding how to achieve the lip lift look just in time for special occasion season. She also shares her foundation favorites, her concealer trick for sculpting the nose, her favorite powder so that your complexion never looks cakey or shiny. We talk about blush placement and how she gets brows to look lifted without looking too surprised.

[Jill Dunn]

And as always, everything that we discussed today, all the products that we mentioned, we're going to link to those over on our website. It's under the heading Episode Recaps. So stop by. It's breaking beauty podcast.com and happy to report that our website has had a little refresh, a facelift, if you will. And it makes it a lot easier to shop each episode. So we put everything there for you. You can always use it as a resource. Be sure to bookmark it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. And we love welcoming new members to the Breaking Beauty fam. You can share on social media. Tag us. We love to see where you're listening from. Thanks as always for listening and we can't wait for y' all to hear our chat with Ashke home coming up just after the break. Save me.

[Sheena Shay]

What's up, everyone? I'm Sheena Shay. You may know me from nine seasons of Bravo's Vanderpump Rules, but I'm here to tell you about my podcast called Shenanigans. We talk about everything from reality tv, pop culture, relationships, parenting, and invite you to join the Conversations with Q and A sessions where nothing is off the table. There's so much more I want to share with you. Thanks for listening and make sure to subscribe to Shenanigans to stay up to date with new episodes every Friday.

[Carlene Higgins]

This episode is brought to you in part by Nuuly, so if you follow us over on Instagram, you might know that last month, Jill and I were in LA for the Fashion awards and it was so much fun. There was a celebrity everywhere I looked. It's all the top stylist and makeup and hair people. So I really felt like I needed to dress for the occasion, but I didn't want to go out and buy something that I was only going to wear once. So this is where Nuuly comes into the picture. I ordered six items, they were delivered straight to my hotel. I knew one of them was going to work and sure enough, I felt like a million bucks. If you don't know about Nuuly, it's a subscription clothing rental Service. For just $98 a month, you get your choice of any six styles. Every month you get access to thousands of styles. Hundreds of brands like the ones I like at Goldie Farm, Rios on there and also Anthropologie. They have inclusive sizing. A lot of these brands are up to 5x and you get fast free shipping and returns. And they take care of all of the laundry in their state of the art facility. You just take it off and throw it back in the bag. And there's an option to buy if you love it at a discount, which is fantastic as well. And I just think it's a great savings number one. I it's so fun but I don't have to actually spend the money so it's like such a good investment. I don't end up feeling guilty afterwards. It's sustainable as well. Even the way they ship it is in recycled and reusable totes. And also it's super flexible. There's no late fees and if you want to pause it for a month, you can. And if you want to try it for yourself, Nuuly is a great value at 98amonth for any six styles. But right now you can get 28 off your first month of Nuuly. When you sign up with Code Beauty, just go to n U-U-L-Y.com that's Nuuly with two U's and enter the Code Beauty and sign up to get $28 off your first month. That's n u l y.com newly with two use with code BEAUTY. Nuuly subscription clothing rental. Change your clothes.

[Jill Dunn]

Welcome to Breaking Beauty Podcast. Ash. This has been a long time coming. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Sheena Shay]

Thank you ladies for having me. I'm so excited you're here in the flesh.

[Jill Dunn]

We're going to be talking to you today all about how to just look snatched. What was your term for it?

[Sheena Shay]

Snatcheral yes, yes, yes.

[Jill Dunn]

I love it.

[Carlene Higgins]

How to give, like, a face lifted effect just with makeup instead of surgery. I think that's so cool that you can actually do that. So tell us, like, where would you start in terms of doing a look like this? Like, how do you start? Is it with the base or is it with the eyes? And, like, what's step one in getting a lifted look?

[Sheena Shay]

Okay, you got it. This is one of my favorite ways to do makeup, and I think my clients really appreciate the style that I do because they feel natural but snatched at the same time. You always want to start off with a hydrated base because there's a lot of layers involved to the technique that I like to do. So really hydrated base that works for your skin. And then I go in with a lightweight foundation. Like, we got to stop you there.

[Jill Dunn]

Because people are taking. You're going to take notes. What are your. Some of your favorite bases?

[Sheena Shay]

I got you.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Sheena Shay]

So for foundations.

[Jill Dunn]

No, for skin care.

[Sheena Shay]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

So for skin prep, if you are extremely dry, I love the Elements superfood facial oil. It's been in my kit for years. It has a really soothing, relaxing smell to it, and it gets rid of any dry patches on the skin. So you're really going to get that smooth, even base before you put on the foundation. I'll do that. And then I love going in with the. Just the regular road barrier cream. Oh, just the original barrier cream. It's, you know, I would say it's a moisturizer that works really well underneath foundation because it doesn't peel. It kind of it works in your favor. You know, I think some moisturizers, like, work against your products, but this one really works in your favor, and it's lightweight, so I feel like you're getting just enough hydration from that. If you are oily, I would skip out on the oil. I would definitely not go there, and I would just do that road barrier cream. I'm a big fan, like, keeping it super simple if you have really oily skin, because you don't want to weigh the skin down if you're already going to get those natural oils that your skin's producing throughout the day. So I found that I've gotten a lot longer wear out of my. My clients, you know, makeup that we do by keeping it really simple. And then I go in with an eye cream, too, that's really hydrating, and I like something that's, like, a little tacky under the eyes that works as a primer at the same time, so right now I have a bunch of lab samples, things that I'm working on that I can't wait to share more with you guys in the future. So it's, it's things, it's products like that that I gravitate towards. But then when we get to foundation, I always go back to Armani Luminous silk today. Yes, it's. And it looks beautiful. Like, it's like it's one of those foundations that you can always go back to. I remember starting off my career saving up my money before, you know, people even knew who I was. And I would save up my money to buy that foundation. And then, you know, over the years, you try other things, but for some reason, we always go back to it. It's this tried and true product that makeup artists swear by, and it's beautiful for red carpets and it pret much work. You can get it to work for all skin types. You really can. So I love that. And then I also really like the House Labs foundation.

[Carlene Higgins]

So good.

[Sheena Shay]

I think that's another incredible foundation. I also like Pat McGrath's foundation. So those are, those are a couple. I, I wish I give you just one. But it's, you know, as a makeup artist, we carry so many different things in our kit because we work with so many different types of, of people. And you really have to have something for everyone, and that's what makes you a professional. And after that, I love going in with contour. So.

[Jill Dunn]

So you're doing in a snatched look. You are doing the foundation first.

[Sheena Shay]

I'm doing the foundation first, yeah, I'm.

[Carlene Higgins]

Doing the foundation first.

[Jill Dunn]

I was thinking you would do the.

[Sheena Shay]

Eyes first, but you know what, that's a great question to rewind a little bit. It just depends on how snatched we're going on the eyes. Right. So that's. I love that you. You said that. Because it depends like, you know, on Hailee Steinfeld. I do a lot of these, like, outer corners, snatched looking eye looks. In that case, to your point, I would start with eyes. I would prep the skin. I would put eye patches on underneath the eyes. I love the Summer Friday's eye patches. Also the Huda Beauty, the gold ones, because those kind of stick on the skin and then it helps with the fallout. So instead of you getting fallout on the skin, I feel like it catches it too, and it gives. If you kind of angle your eye patch, probably the hood of beauty one, because it's not a hydrogel, angle it in a way that works as tape.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. That help you that snatched Corner. For your liner?

[Sheena Shay]

Yes, yes. For your liner or eyeshadow. And sometimes I don't even even do a winged liner. I will create that snatch with eyeshadow. And because you have that eye patch right here, you get that instant lift. Right. So it's really working as a ruler, a guide, if you will.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, interesting.

[Sheena Shay]

Then whenever I take it off, I don't want it too sharp. So then I'll take a blending brush that's clean, and I'll kind of start buffing out that edge so it's not too harsh. Because I think when you want that snatch look on the eyes, on the cheeks, on the jawline, it's like you want that line of definition, but you kind of want it to be there but faint at the same time. Like, you want it to be unclockable. So you got to blend. I think it's all about the blending techniques and having extra blending brushes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

And then from there, I love going in with different contour products, so it's the placement for me. And one thing that I recently started doing, and I love it. Whenever you turn to the side, you can naturally see where the light kind of hits your face and where the shadow hits your face. So if you just kind of look at yourself and turn different directions, you're going to see where the shadows naturally fall. Like, I can see right there on yours. It's like, right here. It's like, literally in the middle right here. So you could start your cooler contour tone right there and only put the cool tone in this area, and then you can bronze above it. So that way it works for your face shape. Because as much as I like to say hold the. Hold the brush at the top of the ear and use that as a guide, that works most of the time. But for some people, it's like you really want to alter it to your natural bone structure. I think when you just find that natural shadow on your face, that's the guide that's best for you.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

And how about just going back to the eye, like you mentioned, because you are so famous for that. What's the best angle? If. Whether you're using one of those under eye patches or what have you like, what would be a good guideline for people?

[Sheena Shay]

I typically like everything to go up and out. I think sometimes when we go really high with it, it creates too much of a kick. You know, it's way too high. But if you see where your brow ends, most of the time, it's like up and out. If your brows are Shorter. You're just going to have to cheat that a little bit. I would still go up and out. Maybe it needs to go a little higher. Like with Ariana Grande, when I do her makeup, her brows are a bit shorter. Right. And they're straight. So instead of going, like, up and out, sometimes we'll go a little bit higher because we want that snatched lift. And that works with her anatomy.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, Right. Because you often do hear that with, like, a flick of an eyeliner to go to the corner of your eyebrow. That's sort of the Right. But that you're saying that can be too high on.

[Sheena Shay]

It can. It can if your brows are really short. So I think you gotta just start. I like to start off with, like, the angled up and out, almost Egyptian. When you think of, like, how they would do their eyeliner going back to, like, centuries ago, it was very, like, you know, either it was straight, but it was tilted a little bit. So if it's too straight, just always like, tilt it up a little bit.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

And I feel like that kind of, like, softly opens up your eyes without it being too much.

[Carlene Higgins]

Are you using a liquid eyeliner today?

[Sheena Shay]

I'm actually using a. It's a pencil.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah, it's a pencil that. I can't wait to share more with you guys. Okay. I'm like. I am so big on eye products. Just like you said, like, you clocked me on it right away. So that I'm. That excites me because that truly is what gets me excited. And I feel like when you look at someone, that's the first thing that you see. Why not put emphasis on that area?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, you know, well, it looks really beautiful. I'm often curious about what to do on the lower lash line. When you do kind of that flick, it can be confusing because if you overdo it, it, like, closes up your eyes. So what are some guidelines for how to get that balance right?

[Sheena Shay]

If you want to focus on the outer corner when you're talking about eyeliner, instead of bringing your eyeliner all the way in, if you just have that or corner, like today, I kind of just have the outer corner, and I lined the waterline. In that case, you don't always have to put anything under the eye. You could just do a little mascara or none at all and keep it super fresh and light and clean. But if you want to connect it and you feel like you know what this means, a little connection. I like to start off with eyeshadow. So depending on the look, I mean, I'll Start off with, like, maybe a bronzer undertone underneath the eye, just to give it a little shadow and that. That can naturally connect it. And I feel like that's a safe place to start, because then from there you can decide, oh, do I want to put any eyeliner in the waterline or maybe a darker eyeshadow underneath too, which is nice.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

And you don't have to bring it all the way in. I think if your eyes are smaller, some people's eyes are closer together. You want to make sure you keep it as open as possible. So in that case, I would probably bring it halfway or quarter of the way.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

To open them up.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yep. That's kind of what I tried to do. Okay, that's good to know.

[Sheena Shay]

So you're on the right path. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

All right. I've been looking at your Instagrams, and I want to ask you about. You mentioned contour replacement and bronzer next.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

So I just want to help distinguish that for people. So you kind of talked about, like, the contour being in the hollow, where you would naturally experience shadow. So just tell us about, like, the tones that you would choose for different skin tones and the placement and how that all blends together without looking like you're doing a striped effect.

[Jill Dunn]

Paint by numbers.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. Whenever I'm going in to warm up someone's skin, it's very different than doing the contour. I think they definitely are two different things. Nowadays we're seeing. What is it called? It's like bronzing and blush. Contour and bronzer kind of have, like, meshed together, but they are two separate things. Contouring is really. When you're creating shadows and shading on the face, you're getting. You're giving that. And then when you're bronzing, you're just adding warmth. You're giving the skin a sunkissed glow where you would. Where the sun would naturally kiss your skin. And I think they both go hand in hand. We need both of them. So whenever I'm contouring, I like to reach for tones that are definitely in the cooler world. Westman Atelier makes some really great shades. The shade, biscuit and truffle, really beautiful. Also, Dior came out with those sticks this year. I just. I can't breathe over those sticks. They're so amazing.

[Jill Dunn]

So buttery.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

The colors are so. It's like, you can't mess it up.

[Sheena Shay]

You can't mess it up.

[Carlene Higgins]

I need to try these.

[Sheena Shay]

And they have a foundation stick, too. So good. Which is also Amazing together. So they, you know, they came out with these. I think it's like one or two shades that they came out with that are cool. And I have. There's only like, one or two, so you really. It's easy to find on the website. I have both of those in my kit, and I find that to be with the Westman and also the Dior, those are great because those are true contour sticks. And you can take it and apply it right where you see that natural shadow on your face and only apply it in this area. If you want to do a little here as well, you can. And on the nose, of course, on the.

[Carlene Higgins]

By the hairline she's pointing to.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. So on the temples and the hairline, you want to make sure that you're bringing that shadow and dimension in to right where the hairline starts and then blending that downward. But when we're talking about a deeper complexion, if you have darker skin, I wouldn't go with a gray undertone. You're not going to feel good, and a cooler tone like that. So when I'm working with someone that has more melanin in their skin, I'm reaching for tones that are really warm, really rich, very chestnutty mahogany. You know, it has, like, a rich, warm undertone.

[Jill Dunn]

Almost like a red undertone.

[Sheena Shay]

Exactly. And that's what's going to bring out their complexion. So I wouldn't say that a cool tone works for everyone. I think it works more for light to tan skin, I would say. And even then, it's like, I still love doing bronzer lightly. If you have light skin with contour, I feel like everyone just looks amazing with a little color. But then again, if you're super fair, probably just stick to those cool tones. Like when I do Lindsay Lohan and I do her makeup, and we love the cooler tones, I will barely warm her up because we don't want it to go orange.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

When you have really fair skin, you have to be so careful about that. So it's almost like you really have to mix more of those cool tones.

[Jill Dunn]

What's a good bronzer that you love to use on her, for instance?

[Sheena Shay]

You know what? I have been loving the Hoola benefit Hoola light bronzing shade throwback. Yeah, it is so good. I picked it up recently, and I was like, wait, this is so good on her complexion. Yeah, I really love it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Is it still in the box? The little box? The little Pulla box?

[Sheena Shay]

It is, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my God.

[Sheena Shay]

But it's. It's really good. I think, you know, as a makeup artist, we're just, we love finding things that just work. You know, it's like if it's a good undertone, I'm like, oh, I'm keeping that. Hell yeah. Staying in my kit.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

You know, so I've been loving that one on her because they, they really expanded the collection over the years. Like they used to be just the hoola shade.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

We're back in like 20, 15, 16 and now they have so many, which is incredible. As they should.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

Sara about the, the bronzer placement then and how you kind of continue that lifting effect and, and then the blush and how it all works together.

[Sheena Shay]

So whenever I'm applying bronzer on anyone. I start off a lot higher, so I will use the top of the ear as a guide. And if you need an actual ruler, you can take your brush that you're using, hold it at the top of your ear, look to the side and kind of smile and see the apples of your cheeks and where that naturally falls. That's where I would place my bronzer. Okay. So I go higher with the bronzer. I connect that all throughout the forehead, bringing that underneath the jaw. I mix the contour in with the bronzer just right here. And I don't bring things down to the neck because I feel like you don't want to darken this area. But when you keep your bronzer a lot higher up here, almost like a C shape, it gives the skin a natural lift. It gives the face a natural lift, and I feel like that's what gives the makeup such a wow factor. And I love taking, you know, the bronzer, or maybe it's the powder contour shade, depending on your complexion, and bringing it to the outer corner of the eye and then straight into the temple. So it's almost like where the corner of your eye ends. Hold that up at an angle upward and outward, and bring it all the way through the temple into your hairline. So you're softly kind of blowing that out with. With a bronzer brush into the hairline. And that's what's gonna give you a lift on the top part of, like, the temples of your face. And then right underneath, you can leave a little space where your concealer would be. You know, leave that a little brighter. And I feel like it kind of gives you that non surgical facelift, you know, that's unclockable.

[Carlene Higgins]

Of course. Yes, of course.

[Jill Dunn]

Let's talk a little bit about the brush that you use, because I feel like that is everything. Cause you get a little too much bronzer on there. Like, use the wrong. You can't get that soft focus into the hairline that you're talking about.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. I typically go for brushes that have a little bit of an angle to them. Okay. I don't use a really, like, large bronzer brush as much as I love that. I'm like, there's a time and a place, but usually I'm gonna grab something that is probably 2 to 3 inches long, and it's not gonna be super wide. Okay. I need it to be a little bit narrow for me, but really soft. I think the brushes that you. The softer the better, because that's how you're really going to get that seamless blend, that celebrity makeup artist type of look. You know, I think a lot of the times we forget to invest in our tools, you know, and your tools is. Was what will last you a lifetime, you know, if you take care of them and wash them. So I'm really, really big on that. I do. I hope I'm saying this right. It's a Japanese brand and it's refer.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

It's all over TikTok Shop. And it is. I mean, it's such a high quality fiber.

[Jill Dunn]

It's like R, E, P, hr.

[Sheena Shay]

Exactly.

[Jill Dunn]

I've seen it.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. You know what I'm talking about. And it's a black handle with white bristles. And those are so soft. And the brushes are incredible for the eyes, the face, all of it. So you really just want something that is a little bit more like soft, a little bit dense and not too big. And that's going to be your best friend when you're contouring your face, when you're bronzing, you can use it for blush, too. So I kind of go for brushes in that world. And then whenever I'm doing blush, I keep that high as well.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

So I will apply that kind of like where the center of my eye is.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

And right above, kind of like right above the bronzer. It can go into the concealer a little bit. Because I feel like if you have a dark under eye and you need to color correct, sometimes your blush works as a color corrector too. So by the time you add your blush, it kind of color corrected if you're using like a peachy pink.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

You know, I find that, like, that ends up brightening my client's under eyes in the best way. You want to keep your placement really high. So it's right underneath the outer corner of the eye, I would say, and then into the bronzer right in that area where we created that placement with the brush. But if you want a sun kissed look, you can still keep the placement of that high, too. I think a lot of the times we'll accidentally we'll put our makeup on really fast and then we'll drag it down really quickly. But if you are a little bit more mindful with it, you can actually, you know, take a moment and then just place that a little bit higher kind of right where your freckles would be if you were to put faux freckles on. Yeah. So I would place it kind of like in a W shape right here under the eye. And then going over the nose and then whatever's left over. My favorite trick is to take the brush that I was using and apply it vertically right above the brows, so parallel on the temples with the blush. Like where your arch is. Exactly. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

Vertical. Just a little bit, like whatever's left over, because it kind of just brings that harmony of tone all throughout the skin.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

And then after that, you can take what's left over and apply it right on the jawline, like, just above. Just one swipe on both sides. Not too much focus on it. Just kind of throw it on, and then the harmony is just beautiful.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. This is why I love the hourglass palettes.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Those are beautiful because I find, like, if you just start using those as, like, eyeshadow and then the blush and the bronzer and the highlight and all that, but then you can, like, you say just take the extra and go back over your eyelids or whatever, and you just get this harmony. It's, like, so beautiful.

[Sheena Shay]

And there's really everything you need in that palette.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

Too. Yeah. Which is so nice.

[Carlene Higgins]

Brush on the bronzer and just like, drag it over my lashes.

[Sheena Shay]

Perfect.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like, for a fine line. It's like, so it's such a good all in one.

[Sheena Shay]

You can even take the blush. Put that on the eyes too, which I love for spring.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

So beautiful.

[Carlene Higgins]

So great. So basically we can forget the whole, like, smile in the apple of your cheek for blush.

[Sheena Shay]

Basically.

[Carlene Higgins]

If you wanted to get this facelift effect. It's the W. I did.

[Jill Dunn]

It's the W. I did laugh on Tick Tock. The other day, I saw Erica Taylor, who is a makeup artist. I think she does mostly women tips and tricks for women over 40. And she's like, if you're still smiling, employing the. The blush on the apples of the cheeks. She's like. And you're over 40. She's like, Darling, the apple has fallen from the tree.

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah. You gotta go up. I love her already. Oh, my God, she's guilty.

[Jill Dunn]

She's like. People were rolling in the comments because it's so true. I think so many people are still doing that thing they learned at the department store, Right?

[Sheena Shay]

Absolutely.

[Jill Dunn]

It works.

[Sheena Shay]

What I learned at Mac.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. It's like what you learned, but as your face changes or if you do want the.

[Carlene Higgins]

The lift is natural.

[Sheena Shay]

The snap jewel.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. You're not. The apple's gone. It's on the ground, girl.

[Sheena Shay]

Throw that apple away. The apple has fallen from the tree. She said it best. She said it best.

[Jill Dunn]

All credit to her. All credit to her.

[Carlene Higgins]

Now, you mentioned concealer under the eyes, so let's talk about that, because I've definitely seen people, like, snatching their face with concealer. So give us a guide here on what to do.

[Sheena Shay]

So whenever I'm doing concealer, I like to put it on the back of my hand first, just because I feel like it warms up better. If you go directly, directly on your skin with the doe foot applicator, sometimes I think we're overdoing it. I think we put way too much product there. It gets right under the lashes. You tend to crease more. So to avoid that and to lift the skin, I will use. I've been loving the Morphe concealer brush lately, and it is a very dense kind of circular brush that you can use underneath the eyes. And I like to go in and bring the concealer on up to where the lashes end. So don't bring it any further because it'll leave a natural shadow there. So if you don't want to put eyeshadow, that's a natural shadow for you, and it's going to prevent the creasing if you don't bring it all the way up to where your, you know, eye tear duct is.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

So from there, I basically, I'll do a little dot here with the brush right underneath the eye, and I'll bring it into where the nose contour starts, basically the bridge of the nose, the nose exactly on the side of the nose. And then I'll do another dot angled in an upward direction. This is kind of a guide to kind of erase maybe any mistakes that you make. If you brought your eyeshadow too low, now's the time to fix it. If you wanted that sculpted eye look and you couldn't quite achieve it, you can still fix it. It's fine. So just take that concealer and angle in the direction that you want to lift the eye upward and outward with a. With that flat concealer brush that's a bit dense, and you can softly start making those strokes. And I think less is more with everything, especially your liquids, because you're like, you're painting at this point. You don't want to overdo it and for things to get cakey. So keeping it. Keeping everything high is going to be more flattering. I think in 2016, we would bring it all really low into a triangle. Just ditch that whole thing. Okay. Everything you learned, just keep it. Keep it simple. And then, then on the forehead, depending on your forehead shape, I have a larger space, so I like to put only One dot of concealer right above the eyebrows. If you have a smaller.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like where your elevens are.

[Sheena Shay]

You mean exactly right in the middle? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yeah. Where your elevens are. I will put just a little dot of concealer because I have a larger forehead, so I like to do more shading on mine, personally. But if you have a smaller forehead, you can actually do more highlighting with the concealer if you're using a lighter shade to conceal. And I would actually use maybe two shades lighter than your foundation to highlight in these areas that I'm talking about right now, because that's going to create this multi dimensional look to really enhance those features and give you that sculpted look that we want that's highlighted in the right areas. And then I love taking a really fine concealer brush. Something that's very thin. I would say it's like in the shape of a pencil, but almost like a little bit square and flat and synthetic. It can be anything. Take this brush and draw with a steady hand one line down the bridge of the nose and let it sit there. Just let it sit there, do other things. And then once it's dry, it dries down, come back to it, and you can blend it out with a duo fiber brush. Just go over it. It can be like, you know, you're.

[Jill Dunn]

Like, buffing it out, basically.

[Sheena Shay]

Buffing it out. You're buffing it out to. You're buffing it out, but it's in a way that you still see the line. You know, it's like very faint. And that's what I do when I'm working with all my clients. Like, like, that's one thing that JLO always does, how she has that perfect line here, but it's also. Is it there? It's all. It's not there. You know what I mean? That's kind of what we're looking for. We want those lines to be there, but not really.

[Jill Dunn]

Did you do it today?

[Sheena Shay]

I did a little bit. Yeah, I did. And I do highlighter over it, too. Okay. So, yeah, I would bring it to the tip of the nose. I would bring it all the way down to the tip of the nose. Don't go underneath the tip because that's where we want that shadow to be. But this is such a good trick for a non surgical. No, no snatch. Okay. This is lifechanging. Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm gonna try this. I've not heard this tip before, and I don't know if you've tried Lisa Eldridge's new. That would be great concealer. So I. I have that.

[Sheena Shay]

I want you to try that and let me know.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm gonna try that. Because I. When I first got that pencil, I was like, I don't know what to use this for.

[Sheena Shay]

It's so pinpoint concealing. Perfect.

[Carlene Higgins]

But this is like a makeup artist for real. But I was like, what am I doing in real life? But actually, somebody gave me a tip which I used, which is these downturned lines that I have at each side of my lips.

[Sheena Shay]

It happens to all of us. Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

The liner there. And I blended it in, and it was actually really good.

[Sheena Shay]

It's fascinating. Yeah, because. And I love what you said, because you can snatch your lips, too.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

It's like, sometimes we don't need to follow our natural lip shape. We can slightly alter it, and you have a completely new lip shape that works for you.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

It's shocking. It, like, literally works for you. I will. So I love the lip flip technique, something that I started doing a couple years ago.

[Jill Dunn]

You use this on Demi Moore. I feel like, a lot.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes, I do. And she's so beautiful and perfect person to do it on. She's got amazing lips. Sometimes we just want to accentuate them even more. So I start off with a lip liner that is kind of, you know, think of, you know, Mario has lip liners that are. I would say the shade almond is great. So that will work for anyone that has, like, medium skin to, like, tan skin. So basically, you want to grab a nude liner that works for your complexion, and you're going to take that liner and you're going to start in the cupid's bow. I like to roll my lip down a little bit like this, and then that way I can create a little V right above the cupid's bow. Some people don't have a cupid's bow. This is. If you want to try. This is a great time to experiment and play and see if you like it. So you want to create, like, a little V. Roll your lip down just above the cupid's bow. Then you want to create a shadow right underneath your lower lip lip. Just one little line. And then from there, you're.

[Jill Dunn]

Show me what you're doing with the pencil. It's like this, right? You're like. Are you putting the pencil, like, flat against your chin and doing that?

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah. So basically, I'm drawing it on just right here. Okay. And then I'm doing the cupid's bow and a V right here. But if you roll your lip down and do it It's a. I feel like you have more stability over it, and you can really draw that cupid's bow. So you want to go just above. I'm not talking about, like, fully facial reconstructive lips. Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Aging, Dr. Chang.

[Sheena Shay]

Exactly.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

Ser. It's another call. But I mean, if you just do a little bit, and then you keep the sides of your lips, the corners, narrow. Okay. And back in, like, 20, 15, 16, I was overdrawing my whole entire lip, so I was really making my lips look wider and more spread out. And it's not fluttering, but if you keep the corners really narrow and you shade them, Keep it narrow, you're making your lips look pouty, and you're shortening the distance and from your nostrils to your cupid's bow. And I feel like that little lift is really flattering, even. It doesn't have to be a big lift. It can be, like, the most subtle movement that you do with the pencil on the cupid's bow. And you're like, oh, this is. This is natural. I like it. And I feel lifted and elevated. And to your point, whenever you do the lower lip right here, it's like instead of following your natural lip line, it's like, keep those corners. Corners so tight.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

And if you accidentally follow your lip line, you can take, you know, the pinpointing concealer that you just mentioned would be great. And you can kind of slice off that corner right where your mouth kind of folds so it doesn't droop down.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

You know, and even if you don't have that anatomy already, it's like, even just doing that and, you know, it's going to make your lips look even, powder, instantly ageless.

[Jill Dunn]

That.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

It's because this little part you're talking about, the cupid's body, it gets longer, quote, unquote, as you age.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. Everything is going down. So moves.

[Jill Dunn]

I remember makeup by. Mario was talking about that, too.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. He's another one. We both love it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

Oh, yeah. I love Mario. He's incredible. And I feel like we all, like, love that elevated kind of lip look, you know, you can't lose. And then to top it off, you can do a lip tone in the center of your lips. I like to call it your lips, but better. Okay. So something that's a rosy, neutral shade, because that's really flattering. And then. And then what you would see if you kind of rolled your lip down, what is that color on the inside? It's usually something kind of rosy. So just Going with. You're really enhancing what your the inside of your lips look like.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, interesting.

[Jill Dunn]

What are you wearing today?

[Sheena Shay]

I am wearing the. The combo.

[Jill Dunn]

What's the combo?

[Sheena Shay]

The combo is the Mario lip liner in the shade Almond Love. And then my favorite lipstick that I always reach for is the YSL candy glaze in the shade 15.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, interesting.

[Sheena Shay]

I'm obsessed with it. It works on most people. You know, it works on most. And it's a perfect rosy tone that's really hydrating.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

This is so nice. What a genius idea.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's a con. That's a creamy gel concealer that she just watched. The Lisa Eldridge pinpoint concealer, everyone.

[Sheena Shay]

Genius idea, Genius idea right there. Never seen it done before. And you always need something like that. But how smart to have it in a strain.

[Jill Dunn]

Pinpoint concealing is so tough to get right. And it's like, like, I get it.

[Carlene Higgins]

I'm going to try it around my lip area.

[Sheena Shay]

I love this. I want to show you the lipstick that I brought.

[Carlene Higgins]

A little show and tell everyone. This episode is brought to you in part by Strivectin. So we've been talking today all about how to cheat a facelift effect through the magic of makeup. And now you need to know about a face cream cream that's cheating the look of injectables through skin care. It's called Strivectin Peptide Plump collagen cushion cream. And what they did, they tested this next gen wrinkle cream on women considering injectables. And the results. Okay, they're going to surprise you. After four weeks, 97 said that they would choose this cream over injectable filler. They must have really loved it. This was based on a self assessment questionnaire and they pulled 35 subjects projects after four weeks of use. So why? Well, the key is Trivectin Alpha 3 peptide technology. What they did, and you know, we've been talking about peptides all year long because it's so buzzy. It is legit. So they used artificial intelligence to find out what would be the most effective wrinkle smoothing peptides that would be so powerful that they could actually target three of skin's important building blocks. Collagen, elastin, hyaluronic acid. And with daily use, it was clinically proven to improve the look of fin lines. The 11 lines after four weeks of use as directed. It's got this cushiony bounce back texture that I really enjoy. It kind of feels like pudding. It's very cooling. I like to use it at night. So whether you're getting injectables and using this to maintain results or you're not ready to take the next step or you're just curious about it. You need to know about strivectin's Peptide Plump Collagen Cushion cream. And you might know Strivectin, they've been around for at least 20 years. They're already famous for their number one neck cream and their number one selling stretch mark cream. They also have this proprietary Naya 114 ingredient that's said to be better than niacinamide at helping skin to act younger. So now it's all about the new collagen peptide cream. So give it a go yourself. Discover the science behind Great Skin with Strivectin.

[Jill Dunn]

I'm thrilled to be sharing this show partner Lead by l' Oreal with you because it's all about helping you land your dream beauty job in the industry. So Lead by l' Oreal is revolutionizing beauty education because it's really bridging that gap between beauty school and higher education. And LEAD is an award winning educational program created by Rolf's Global Institute and powered by l' Oreal usa. And LEAD is not just another course. It's the first ever college and university degree program designed specifically for beauty professionals. So they're transforming the beauty industry from a trade into a profession by offering a Bachelor of Science degree in beauty and wellness. And what I love about this is you can access it whether you're 18 years old right out of high school or if you're an established beauty professional. But you want to get more skills to level up and get that confidence. You're also able to enter into this program and just open new doors. We had the opportunity on a bonus episode last week. Carlene and I spoke to a graduate of this program and she just kept talking about the confidence, how much more confident she feels now that she has completed this degree and how she really is taking that into her job in the beauty business. And LEADS classes are flexible. They're available online, on campus. They can be taken part time or full time. Plus they have a new international apprenticeship program launching in 2025. And if you want to find out how you can revolutionize your path forward as a beauty professional, you can try it now at lead institute.° that's LE A D institute.de° once again, L E A D institute.° we will link to this program in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show. I do want to ask you also about lashes because I've Been staring at your ladder the entire time and I know that you're famous for your spider.

[Carlene Higgins]

Gorgeous.

[Sheena Shay]

Thank you. I.

[Jill Dunn]

The definition is incredible.

[Sheena Shay]

I'm like, if I can get. First off, I love lashes. Okay. Today I'm not wearing lashes, I'm wearing mascara. But if I can get a mascara to give me a lift, to give my thin little non ex. I have non existent lash.

[Jill Dunn]

Really?

[Sheena Shay]

They're very thin. Okay. Like super thin. So I need volume, meaning sparse. Or I would say sparse.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah. They can get long, but they're a bit straight.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

So I feel like they're always going downward. They're not doing what I want them to do. So if I can get these to lift and to give myself volume, it's a good mascara. Okay. So the Haus Labs mascara. Love it. Such a good one. That's what I have on.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

Amazing. It's a clean formula. The brush is great. It gives you a lot of density and volume, lift and length. That's what I look for in a mascara. I feel like that works on.

[Carlene Higgins]

Do you have a technique that you do to get any kind of like little extra flick or.

[Sheena Shay]

So what I like to do is I will start from the base. Base. And I'll do. I won't do a really heavy coat at the base. I'll do a light coat at the base. But it's all about getting to like the mid part of the lash and the tips. That's when I start to do a lot of wiggling. And I'll have I personally on myself and on my clients, I'll have them kind of like look down, I would say, so I can really focus on wiggling the brush upward and I put all my emphasis on that so I can really build the tips of the lashes and get them longer. And this is what I would do if I wasn't going to go in with individuals on someone. I think when you go in with individuals, you just need a light coat. It's fine. Just an even light coat, you know, brush through with a spoolie, make sure it's not clumpy. That's the goal before we put on a strip lash or individuals. But if we're talking about a really flawless celebrity lash application that I would do for red carpet or I would do every day, depending on you're picking the kids up from school. You're just a glam girl, you have an evening date. There's so many options when it comes to the false care studio. So this. I'm a big falscara. Fan. I use these on my clients all the time. It basically gives you unclockable lashes because you never have to worry about like an inner or outer corner band lifting because it's an under lash application. So it's basically like the DIY lash extension kit.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

It's super so easy.

[Sheena Shay]

So it's like five minutes.

[Carlene Higgins]

These are by Kiss makeup.

[Sheena Shay]

These are by Kiss.

[Jill Dunn]

It's the false studio collection, though. There's 54 in there.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. It's crazy. So there's literally 54. Four whis wisps in here. You get a 14 day wear. Sometimes I just want the one day wear because we want to change of our look so often with my clients. So I'll do the one day wear. But this is incredible because can you.

[Jill Dunn]

Do the motion of what you do, like on, on so we can see.

[Sheena Shay]

So people can see. I do want to show these to camera, though. So this is the False Care Studio by Kiss. And it's incredible because you get 54 WISPs in here. So as an artist and as someone that wants to customize all of my looks, this is what I'm gonna reach for. Because when you open it, you have light, fluffy and spiky. So you have different wisps, links and styles and textures in here. It's an underlash application, so that's what's going to give you that flawless look where you can't see the band. It's also clear. It's brilliant. It's so good. So I start off with the infused bond. So basically you want to make sure you have no mascara on first or it's not gonna work. So clean lashes finishing step to every look. Just don't put mascara on.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

Take the bond and work in sections. So I start at the outer corner and I do about a medium coat just on the outer corner of the lash. Apply like you would mascara. Then you're going to pick up the wisp that you want to start with. I usually like to go in with maybe like the middle row of fluffy. And because this is going to be more of like a medium length wisp I don't like.

[Jill Dunn]

These are lash clusters, everyone. They're just like so not. They're like two kind of look like too. Lashes in one.

[Sheena Shay]

Exactly. Two lashes in once. They're really easy to manage on your eyes. It's easier than a strip, I think, if you're not used to that for sure. So then you just want to hold it by the lash applicator. And then when you're looking at a compact mirror or you have your mirror here, you kind of. I like to just look at it downward because you're going to place it just like this.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

So you're bringing it right above the waterline of your eyes. Placing it right above. That's where it's going to sit comfortably. And the bond is what's going to get it to adhere here. And then to seal the deal, basically you would continue that all the way through. And then I like to seal the deal with the water resistant seal. So it's literally water resistant. So if you have oily. If you're really oily in this area, you get incredible long wear. So you just put this on like a mascara. It's clear and it removes any stickiness that you might be feeling from the bond too. And then if you want to lock them in for 14 days, optional, you can apply the bond boost. So this is black. This is the solution. And this would go right above the waterline, not in the water line. So I usually just look up and go like this.

[Jill Dunn]

Kind of like the root of the lash.

[Sheena Shay]

Exactly. The root of the lash is perfect.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my gosh.

[Sheena Shay]

And then it has the remover in here as well. So it has everything that you need to do multiple lash looks.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I just don't know why anyone would go for a lash strip anymore, honestly. The innovation has. Has arrived.

[Carlene Higgins]

Would you put these all the way across, though, or do you just sometimes.

[Sheena Shay]

Do the outer On Khloe Kardashian, I personally love to go all the way in because we love, like a fluttery, open eye look that's more baby doll like. So when you're doing that baby doll type of lash style that you would see on Kim or Chloe, they love a lash look. So the longest lash is going to be in the center and then it kind of fans outward, so we go all the way in. But I also love a very open eye that's more. More even more elongated. So sometimes on a day where maybe it's not something so glamorous, they just want a couple, you know, on the outer corner. So we'll do the longest piece just going to the shortest piece. Maybe just three wisps.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

That's called Erewhon lash.

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

You know?

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah. That's the lash I want. I'm like an outer corner girl. Yes. I can't do more than that because it feels better that way. And I think it just like, it's so flattering.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

I do have a question for you because I know you've worked with Alex Earl about bunch her eyelash technique.

[Sheena Shay]

Fascinating love.

[Jill Dunn]

Did you. Did she do that with you? So she takes the curler and she's going to town.

[Sheena Shay]

She's going to town on it. I'm impressed.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Do you endorse that?

[Sheena Shay]

I do. Or what? I do. I do. So I think, you know, if you're really good at your own mascara and you really know how to curl and you feel comfortable with that.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

Do it. I think you should. There's, like, two clients I would say, that love to curl and do their own mascara, and that's Chloe and Alex. Earl and Alex. Well, like, she'll let me. She would let me do anything, but I kind of love the way she does it. So I'm like, you should. You should do it on everybody else. I do it because they may not, like, want to or feel comfortable or just want to chill, you know?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

So I'll come in and do all the things, but I do endorse that. It's, like, iconic of her.

[Carlene Higgins]

Iconic.

[Sheena Shay]

She should do it. Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Jill Dunn]

I love that. And I love that you kind of, like. Because she was so famous for her Get Ready with Me. And then she started working with artists like yourself, but it's like, she's still, like, rocking.

[Sheena Shay]

That's so true. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, and you're, like, you're leaning into it.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

We haven't talked about brows, and we need to, because I do think that's very important for the lifted thing. But you don't want to look like Spock. Your brows are incredible. I feel like you do the most amazing brows on Shay Mitchell as well.

[Sheena Shay]

Thank you.

[Jill Dunn]

Tell us everything.

[Sheena Shay]

Yes. So Shea's a good one because she has a great brow shape. It's, you know, it's a little bit straighter. The tail is a little bit lifted. So she has, like. She's a good. She basically is a good guide to start with, which is nice. But. But she wants brows that are really feathery looking, that stand up, and she's, you know, she's Filipino. The hair's pretty straight on her. Her brows. So we need to kind of lift them, if you will, so the gel matters. Okay, I'm gonna get to that. But we basically. We basically go in and I draw the tiniest little strokes of hair, and I do this on everybody. But it's really important to have those strokes of hair. Like, the first four strokes need to be right here and. But.

[Jill Dunn]

Which is, like, the inner corner you're pointing to.

[Sheena Shay]

Exactly. So Oops. It needs to be the inner corner of the eye right here where the brow hair starts. So I usually go in with like on Shea, I actually go in with a dark brown pencil right there and then I use a lighter brown the rest of the way. And you would normally think it's the opposite. Right. But the reason for that is there's always a lot of flash photography around us and I find that we naturally. Most people don't have a lot of brow hair in the inner part right there. So if you go in with a lighter shade sometimes and you're doing a lot of flash photography on carpets, the paps are getting you. It just kind of looks like you're missing brow hair right there is what we've noticed throughout the years. So I go in with a darker shade with those first couple strokes of hair and it keeps the brows in place and pigmented through all that photography. And then I use a brown pencil. I like the Kelly Baker brow pencils. She's an amazing brown brow technician.

[Jill Dunn]

I follow her on Instagram.

[Sheena Shay]

She's so good. She does, she's. She's the one that's in charge of all of our brows. She's responsible for mine. Shay's, all of my clients, so great friend of mine and she has amazing eyebrow products. So I use the shade brown and dark brown a lot in my kit. But it's all about drawing those strokes of hair and it's important to, you know, keep this arch kind of low. I think a lot of us have over plucked in the 2000s and we're still struggling with a little overarch. I am. I actually draw mine a bit lower. So I do that on. I do that slightly on people that have a little bit more of an arch. Like, we still want an arch, but if you start all the way at the top, sometimes I feel like it makes them higher when really we just kind of want to keep them where they are.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

You know, so I put a little bit less on the side top. I would say less emphasis. So if I. I do put brow product there, but I'll brush it through a lot, you know, so you want to make sure that you're really filling that, that arch area. And that's what's I would say most important to the looks that I do to keep them more balanced and then locking it in with a gel. So you, after you do those feather like strokes that literally look like hair, brush it through. You want to lock the hair in place. So we love on Shea, we love using Got2B gel. Got to be glue blue products. It's like an OG product. So we use it in the hair gel form. I use a little mini hair gel in my kit. I'll put it on the back of my hand and then apply with a spoolie. And we basically just brush, we brush it through basically downward and upward on the brows and then it saturates every single follicle, every hair. Then you can lay them in any direction that you want. So if you have extremely straight eyebrow hair that just wants to fall down, this is the only thing that will keep, keep them up.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. That product is one I like to call It's Ugly but it works.

[Sheena Shay]

It's Ugly but it works.

[Jill Dunn]

You know, horse.

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah. Another product that they carry is they have a brow gel version. Yeah. So I have that one in my kit too. But sometimes she still makes me pull up the hair one. Yeah, she's like, I know you like that, but we have to go back.

[Jill Dunn]

I actually just tried the new Maybelline Feather Fluff Fluff Brow.

[Sheena Shay]

That is such an incredible product.

[Jill Dunn]

Wearing it today and it looks really good. Really good. It love. I, I, I sketched in with my usual and then I just like finished with it. And I like the colors. I think the edit of the colors are really important and I think they did a good job. The other low key, excellent brow product that I don't think I've ever talked about is the glossier brow pencils.

[Sheena Shay]

Oh, those are amazing.

[Jill Dunn]

They 100% work with a makeup artist on those.

[Sheena Shay]

You know what else I like from them? I'm wondering if this is what you're talking about. The pencils that they have. It's more of a pen though where you can make.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, the brow flick.

[Sheena Shay]

The brow flick. I love their brow flick. That's another incred product cuz it's like making little mini eyeliner strokes all over your brows.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

But if you start with a lighter shade, then it looks a lot more like hair.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

So it's just I, I appreciate that there is like drugstore options for a good brow look, whether it's got to be or maybe.

[Sheena Shay]

I love that you said that because I think as you know, as makeup artists, you celebrity makeup artists, all of us, we appreciate all of it. I think if it just works, it works. Who cares?

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Jill Dunn]

It is really good. Good. We have to talk about powders because that's probably your finishing step, right?

[Sheena Shay]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

And so many powders in the last few years have the word snatch in them.

[Sheena Shay]

You're Right.

[Jill Dunn]

So, yeah. Are they doing all the heavy lifting? Like, what do you like to do and how do you like to use them?

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah. So, okay, so with powder, interesting thing, because we need it. Okay. But if you don't want to overdo it. So if you take your, you know, if you take your powder and you apply it all over your face to set, I do feel like, yes, you got a very snatched look. You can use it to sculpt the jawline. You can use it to enhance the cheekbone with a powder puff or a brush. That's really dense. I love it for that. But sometimes I think we make the mistake of putting too much powder on, and then we lose. We lose some of the glow and the dimension. So I like to really bring out the cheekbones with it, but only in this area. Not all. But only right under. Underneath the. But only right underneath the contour. I don't like to bring it all the way down and powder this whole area. I like to leave some glow here because that's the dimension that you're going to miss after you do all of that. And then I'll powder the T zone.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

Okay. That's what I think. Snatches the face. Because you want to make sure that you powder the nasal labial fold. Because when it's too glowy in this area, that's what can age us in photos and out in daylight. It's just not flattering. So you do want to mattify this area, but there's a way to still keep the glow that you just did all this amazing work. Right. So you want to make sure that you lightly powder here or none at all.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

You know, it just depends. If you're super oily, go in, but if you're not and you're more, you know, you have more normal skin, then I would definitely skip out on a lot of the powders. Snatch underneath the cheekbones, and then do the T zone.

[Jill Dunn]

What are you using for that?

[Sheena Shay]

I love a powder puff a lot of the time, but I do have some clients that don't love a powder puff because they, again, to my point, think that it takes away too much of the dimension and the glow. So in that case, I like to go in with another one of those brushes that I love that's really small.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

And I can pinpoint the placement of where I really want that powder. It's probably just under the eyes, the nasolabial fold, the T zone, bridge of the nose, a little bit on the chin here, and we keep the rest fresh.

[Jill Dunn]

Did you mention your Favorite powder.

[Sheena Shay]

So my favorite powder was. Was the. So sad. The Givenchy loose powder. Oh, my God.

[Jill Dunn]

The one they reformulated.

[Sheena Shay]

The one they reformulated. That was. That was my favorite. But you know, they brought it back talc free. And I do have. There are a lot of talc free powders that I love. And I think that. I get why they did that. Okay. I get why they did that. Right now I'm loving the Kosas powder, actually. I am loving it. Hey, I'm. I think the shade range is beautiful. I just did a YouTube with it. I can't wait for that to come out. Cause I really get to show and teach on that. But I think it's such a beautiful powder. I feel like it snatched my face in the areas that I needed it to snatch and just kind of lock in, if you will. But it feels breathable and weightless and the tones are beautiful too. So I think that that's a really good one to try. I love Mario's. His is also amazing as well. And another. I do love Huda Beauty. So that's a. That's another one that gives you a really snap matched, original Givenchy kind of, kind of style because there is talc in it. You know, I think the talc is definitely what locks in and really mattifies and blurs the pores. But I'm very impressed with the talc free powders that are hitting the market right now.

[Jill Dunn]

Well, I think you've walked us through the whole snatch roll.

[Sheena Shay]

Good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Absolutely.

[Jill Dunn]

I love it. I need to ask you what's the one thing you think kind of makes. Makes your makeup look really dated in 2025?

[Sheena Shay]

I would say an overly heavy eyelash. I think there's, you know, every once in a while we may see a really heavy out. I think every once in a while we might see a really heavy eyelash out in the wild. And I wish we didn't. Sometimes. Sometimes I'm like, I just want to hand you these.

[Carlene Higgins]

You know what I mean?

[Sheena Shay]

Like, it's just.

[Jill Dunn]

You have a five minutes.

[Sheena Shay]

Yeah, absolutely. We've got a backstop, honey. I'm happy to support. Honestly, I'm always giving stuff away. I'm like, if you know me, I'm like, take it, please. I want to share the wealth. But yeah, I think it's an overly heavy lash. Because if you just knew you could still do an outer corner lash that has more volume, but if you knew what worked for your eye shape. I need to make some videos on this. Yes. Because we need to figure out I think people just want to know what works for their face shape, you know, so if we knew that we would be feeling, we would take over the world. Okay. All of us. So it's, it's that. So it's a heavy lash and then it's also a carved eyebrow.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sheena Shay]

I see that sometimes and I'm like, I don't know if we need it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sheena Shay]

I don't know that we need that. But there's time and place. Maybe it's an editorial and there's a moment for it and it's a skinny brow. It's like a really 90s skinny brow. And you need to carve it out. That's necessary. But it's kind of, you know, it's. It's lost its thing, you know, it was. It was a. It was. It had its moment. Yeah. You know, but now we don't put that much emphasis on the brows like we used to. We want them to look soft and blended, but we don't need to blocking block them out. Exactly.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I've been dying to ask you what you're wearing on your lids right now.

[Sheena Shay]

I will come back and tell you. I will come back and tell you. So I'm so excited, super excited for the future and I'll share more with you guys soon, but I do not reach for a really dense shimmer anymore. I think I just love toppers.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sheena Shay]

I think it's, you know, it's a one swipe eyeshadow, but it looks super elevated. You can literally put it on with your fingertips and put it over your bare eye eyelid and it looks gorgeous. Or you can put it on top of your matte eyeshadows.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Well, thank you so much for your time with us today. We cannot wait to hear what's coming up, what's bubbling up? We got so many tips and tricks and. Yeah, just thank you so much.

[Sheena Shay]

This was so much fun. I will come back and talk about makeup anytime.

[Carlene Higgins]

Amazing.

[Jill Dunn]

Everybody check out our YouTube channel because we're publishing this on YouTube and you can see everything in action that Ash was demoing. So check us out on YouTube. Thank you so much.

[Sheena Shay]

Thank you, guys. Thank you so much.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our blog@breaking beautypodcast.com.

[Jill Dunn]

While you're there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode will be delivered directly to your inbox, so you won't miss a.

[Carlene Higgins]

Single thing and get social with us. Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast and did you.

[Jill Dunn]

Know we also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Carlene Higgins]

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[Jill Dunn]

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[Carlene Higgins]

See See you next Wednesday.

[Jill Dunn]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.