Replay! Are You Applying Your Foundation The Right Way? How-to Find the Perfect Shade, Formula, Layering Tips and More With Beyonce’s Makeup Artist Sir John

Summary

Breaking Beauty Podcast Episode Summary Title: Replay! Are You Applying Your Foundation The Right Way? How-to Find the Perfect Shade, Formula, Layering Tips and More With Beyoncé’s Makeup Artist Sir John
Release Date: December 25, 2024

---

Introduction

In this special holiday replay episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast, hosts Jill Dunn and Carlene Higgins revisit one of their most popular episodes of the year. The focus of this episode is on mastering the art of foundation application, featuring exclusive insights from Beyoncé’s renowned makeup artist, Sir John. Listeners are treated to an in-depth discussion on finding the perfect foundation shade, selecting the right formula, effective layering techniques, and essential skin preparation tips.

---

Guest Profile: Sir John

Sir John, a legendary makeup artist with over two decades of experience, has an impressive portfolio that includes working backstage at global Fashion Weeks and collaborating with industry icons like Pat McGrath, Charlotte Tilbury, and Naomi Campbell, his first celebrity client. Since 2010, Sir John has been closely working with Beyoncé, crafting her iconic looks for Vogue covers and unforgettable performances such as her show-stopping appearance at Coachella (05:37). His expertise extends to working with other high-profile clients like Zendaya, Doja Cat, and Naomi Osaka. Currently serving as the creative director at Killian, Sir John brings a wealth of knowledge to the podcast, sharing his favorite products and application techniques.

---

Key Discussion Points

1. Defining the Goal for Foundation in 2024

Sir John emphasizes the modern makeup aesthetic:
“We’re striving for supernatural skin. It should look airbrushed and effortless, where the skin appears flawless without being visible.” (10:16). The idea is to achieve a balance where the foundation enhances the complexion without masking the skin’s natural beauty.

2. Finding the Perfect Shade

Choosing the right foundation shade remains a primary challenge for many. Sir John advises having an “arsenal of complexion”, which includes multiple foundations with varying textures and undertones tailored to different skin types and environmental factors (11:06). He suggests:

• Skimming Glass Bottles: “The glass bottle itself is lighter than the actual payoff. So go one shade deeper than what matches your complexion visually.” (12:44)

• Investing in Multiple Foundations: Especially since drugstore foundations are affordable, purchasing a couple allows for mixing and matching to achieve a perfect blend (13:03).

Sir John also highlights the importance of recognizing the unique undertones and how they can change based on factors like sun exposure and natural skin variations.

3. Foundation Application Techniques

The conversation delves into various application methods, with Sir John advocating for specific tools and techniques to achieve a seamless finish:

• Egg Sponge & Beauty Blender:
  “Whenever you go in and start to stipple on these, dampen it first. It allows for a beautiful veil of complexion and uses less product.” (26:59)

• Brushes for Cream Foundations:
  For cream or stick foundations, using a brush helps in buffing the product into the skin for a smooth appearance (28:21).

• Avoiding Excessive Powder:
  Instead of baking the makeup, Sir John recommends using a fluffy brush to dust powder gently, maintaining the skin’s natural luster without making it appear cakey (41:45).

4. Essential Skin Prep

Proper skin preparation is crucial for foundation longevity and appearance. Sir John shares his regimen tailored to different skin types:

• For Dry Skin: Utilize alpha and beta hydroxy acids to enhance cell turnover, ensuring better foundation adherence (17:49). Incorporating products rich in vitamin K and beta carotene, like beet powder, can improve circulation and skin radiance.

• For Oily Skin:
  “Use a mattifying moisturizer to control shine and keep sebum at bay.” (19:38). He also recommends specific serums and touch-ups to maintain a balanced complexion throughout the day.

5. Common Mistakes and Solutions

The hosts discuss frequent foundation mishaps such as patchiness and oxidation:

• Patchiness: Often caused by uneven cell turnover. Sir John suggests using glycolic or beta hydroxy acid toners to ensure a smooth base (30:14).

• Foundation Oxidation:
  “If your foundation starts to turn too yellow, you may need to adjust your undertone or use a pink-toned loose powder to cancel out excess yellowness.” (34:48). He emphasizes the importance of color-correcting techniques to maintain the desired shade throughout the day.

---

Notable Quotes

• Sir John on Supernatural Skin:
  “We’re striving for supernatural skin. It should look airbrushed and effortless, where the skin appears flawless without being visible.” (10:16)

• On Shade Matching:
  “Go one shade deeper than what matches your complexion visually because the glass bottle gives a skewed representation.” (12:44)

• Application Philosophy:
  “We don't bake, we cook. Baking is for stage or TV, but for daily life, dust the powder in a sheer amount to maintain skin luster.” (27:57)

• Avoiding Primer Mishaps:
  “It's not about the primer being the issue; it's about user error with skincare layering. Simplify your routine to avoid overcomplicating the makeup application.” (24:22)

---

Conclusion and Takeaways

This episode of the Breaking Beauty Podcast provides a comprehensive guide to achieving flawless foundation application. With Sir John’s expert advice, listeners learn the importance of:

• Personalizing Their Foundation Arsenal: Tailoring foundation options to suit their unique skin needs and environmental factors.

• Mastering Application Techniques: Utilizing the right tools and methods to blend foundation seamlessly into the skin.

• Prioritizing Skin Preparation: Implementing a skincare routine that enhances foundation adherence and longevity.

• Addressing Common Issues: Understanding and rectifying common foundation problems like patchiness and oxidation through targeted solutions.

By integrating these strategies, beauty enthusiasts can elevate their makeup game, ensuring their foundation not only enhances their natural beauty but also stands the test of time throughout the day.

---

Timestamp Reference:

• [00:01] - [46:29] corresponding to the transcript sections discussed.

---

For more detailed discussions and exclusive product recommendations mentioned in this episode, visit breakingbeautypodcast.com. Don’t forget to follow the podcast on TikTok at @BreakingBeautyPodcast and join the private Facebook group “Breaking Beauty Podcast Chat Room” for ongoing beauty conversations.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

The following podcast is a Dear Media production.

[Jill Dunn]

Hey, Breaking Beauty fam. It's Jill here popping in to wish you a happy holiday season. I know today is Christmas Day. It's also the start of Hanukkah, so happy Hanukkah and Merry Christmas. To those that celebrate, today's episode is a replay. It's one of our most popular episodes from the entire year and it's called are you applying your foundation the right way? How to find the perfect shade formula, layering tips and more with Bey makeup artist Sir John. Just so many incredible takeaway tips and tricks from this epic artist in today's episode. So enjoy and we will be back next week with a brand new episode in your feed on New Year's Day. Until then, welcome to Breaking Beauty, the.

[Carlene Higgins]

Podcast, all about the breakthrough people, products.

[Podcast Announcer]

And moments in beauty.

[Jill Dunn]

We're your hosts, Jill Dunn and Carleen Higgins. Welcome back to the podcast, everyone. We made it through January. I'm your co host, Jill Dunn, and I'm here with my lovely co host, Carlene Higgins. Hey, Carlene.

[Carlene Higgins]

Hey, Jill. And of course, we're two longtime beauty editors turned beauty podcasters. We've been on the fashion and beauty charts for seven years now. And by the way, thank you to our Breaking Beauty crew for tuning in each and every Wednesday. If you guys haven't yet, don't forget to hit subscribe and Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, wherever you are listening right now.

[Jill Dunn]

And by the way, in the last seven years, have we ever come up with an official name for our listeners? I mean, I don't think we've ever had a good moniker unless, I mean, maybe it's up to our listeners to come up with it.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes.

[Jill Dunn]

You know how you can't really give yourself a nickname, Right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Well, in the early days, we had this conversation and I always thought that breakers was a natural, you know, breaking beauty and be like, hey, Breakers. So that's a thought starter. You guys can vote on that. But jump into our, I think Instagram comments or Facebook chat room and let us know what you think would be a good name and if we should roll that out. I mean, let's acknowledge the listeners in our seventh year, shall we?

[Jill Dunn]

Absolutely. I think I always felt strange about giving ourselves the nickname because in my life, any nicknames I've had, other people have given them to me.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Jill Dunn]

And I think that's kind of cuter.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. What's your nickname?

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my gosh, I have so many mo. A lot of people call me JD Jilly. Like, there's so many different ones, like in my family and stuff. But what about you? Do you have a nickname?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, it's. Well, it depends on who is saying it. I have one friend who always calls me Carlos and I have another friend who calls me Car.

[Jill Dunn]

Car.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

That's cute.

[Carlene Higgins]

And sometimes I get Carly. I don't know. Yeah, I get different ones.

[Jill Dunn]

Call her what you want. Just. Just don't call her Darlene, everyone.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, that's my mother in law. And I think I told you this years ago. But like, so I've always gotten Charlene is what I most often get. That's not a nickname, but that's even when I sign my own email, Carlene. I get people responding. Thanks, Charlene.

[Jill Dunn]

And I'm like, yeah, when that happens in person. I hear that in person. When people will address you like that and I'll be like, oh, it's Carlene.

[Carlene Higgins]

Like, I'll try to, I know, Correct them on my account. I appreciate that. It's less awkward because it's like you.

[Jill Dunn]

Probably are like, you probably don't want to correct people. Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

At this point, I just let it roll. I'm like, sure, yeah, I'll. Let's do Charlene. But one time when I was working at a call center, I got a fax from someone. This is how long ago it was, because it was a call center. And the person wrote attention Barling with a B.

[Jill Dunn]

And I was like, hey, I can top that.

[Carlene Higgins]

Why?

[Jill Dunn]

When I can top that. How I got. I once got a package addressed to me when I worked at Glow magazine addressed to. How's this for a typo? Kill Done.

[Carlene Higgins]

Kill Killer. Okay, well, I think we can do better than that for our breaking Beauty listeners. But let's. Let's have at it. Let's have at it. So what are we talking about on the show today? It's not just nicknames.

[Jill Dunn]

That's right. Well, you know, people have been tuning in since day one. They know that we chat about breakthrough people products and moments in beauty on the show. We have our hashtag damn goods episodes reviewing what's new in the marketplace. By the way, we have an epic drugstore beauty episode coming out. Subscribe so you don't miss that. We also have amazing founders on our show. Everyone from Hailey Bieber to Vicky Sy, who's the founder of Tatcha. And we get to spend time with the most iconic inspirational artists and professionals in the beauty biz today. Everyone from Joanna Vargas to Kardashian hair pro Andrew Fitzsimons. And our amazing guest Today, who I have long wanted to have on the podcast, makeup artist extraordinaire, Sir John.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yes. So the topic of the hour is are you applying your foundation the right.

[Podcast Announcer]

Way with Sir John?

[Carlene Higgins]

And we're so honored to get his best tips and tricks because he's legendary. With two decades of experience, he came up in the fashion and beauty biz working backstage at Fashion Week around the globe with industry moguls like Pat McGrath. You may have heard of her. Charlotte Tilbury. And fun fact, Naomi Campbell was his very first celebrity client.

[Jill Dunn]

Incredible. And since then, Sir John, he's worked closely with Beyonce since 2010, creating her most iconic makeup looks, including her historical Vogue cover and her incredible show stopping bachelor performance at Coachella. That's, you know, on Netflix. I wonder if it's still on Netflix. Once in a while I will watch it just to get that throwback moment. It's so amazing. And more famous faces that he's worked with include Zendaya Doja Cat and Naomi Osaka.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

And he's currently the creative director at Killian. He was previously the creative director at Citizen Cosmetics and L'Oreal Paris's Celebrity Makeup artist. We caught up with Sir John while he was in town to conduct a masterclass hosted by our friends at that good co. So we're going to grab his 101 tips. Everything from his go to skin care products to prep skin, how to properly shop for foundation application techniques, brushes versus fingers, beauty blenders, and which methods he relies on most. Plus the number one foundation that he restocks in his kit time and time again will be revealed.

[Jill Dunn]

And of course, every single thing that we discussed today, we will link to it over on our website, which is Breaking Beauty podcast dot com. And please follow us over on Tick Tock. Our handle is at Breaking Beauty Podcast because we got Sir John to open up his makeup kit and show us some of his favorite current items right now. So here we go. Welcome, Sir John.

[Podcast Announcer]

This episode is brought to you in part by Masterclass. For a gift that's always on time and lasts a lifetime, you can't do better than Masterclass. With Masterclass, your loved ones can learn from the best to become their best. Masterclass is the only streaming platform where you can learn and grow with over 200 of the world's best. That's why Wirecutter calls it an invaluable gift Gift Unlimited learning. Learn from any Mastermind Masterclass instructor anywhere on a smartphone, computer, smart TV or even in audio mode. Just the way you're listening right now. I for one AM hanging off of.

[Carlene Higgins]

Martha Stewart's every word.

[Podcast Announcer]

I don't know how many of you watch the documentary. She has a master class on the platform. She started her business at 50, so any entrepreneurial tips I can get from her, I am there. You can also help your loved ones build life changing habits with New York Times best selling author James Clear. Improve their physical and mental well being with leading gut and brain health experts and build stronger relationships with renowned psychotherapist Esther Perrell. And the classes really make a difference. 88% of members feel that Masterclass has made a positive impact on their lives. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50 off. So head over to masterclass.com beauty for the current offer. That's up to 50% [e-mail] beauty. We'll link to this offer on our website and in our show notes. That's masterclass.com beauty and now back to the show.

[Jordan]

Hi guys, it's Jordan from the Balanced Blonde Soul on Fire podcast. On my show, we go deep on all things astrology, awakening, motherhood, channeling, healing, and so much more. A few years ago, I was diagnosed with chronic Lyme disease and the healing journey I embarked on at that time set me on the path to radical awakenings. Let's just say I had no choice but to change my energy and that opened me up to the most beautiful healing of my life. On my show, you can expect to feel like you're sitting in my living room chatting with old friends. Tune in every Wednesday to connect and hang on the balance. Bond, soul on fire.

[Carlene Higgins]

So, Sir John, are you knighted? Where does that name come from? Tell us the background, I guess.

[Sir John]

My grandmother knighted me in 82, but it's my real name. It's my, my first name is Sir John, middle name Nicholas, last name is Barnett, but I don't use my last name anymore. I don't want to say I don't have to, but it's not, it's just not as useful. Yeah, yeah. So all of my uncles are from the Marines, Navy or Air Force. And my grandmother wanted to commemorate her brothers, so she came up with this name. That was a heavy lift as a child. When you have to repeat your name daily, it gives you a little something. It gives you a little pep in your step, a little bit of extra oomph. You know, I heard Tupac say that one day.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, amazing. I love that. So what's your overall vibe and feeling with foundation going into 2024? Like, if you could sum it up in a word or two. What are we striving for?

[Sir John]

I think we're striving for supernatural skin. Right? Supernatural skin. What does that look like? I think she look airbrushed. Does she look effortless? You shouldn't see product, you know, so there's ways to dial up the coverage where you need it and then dial it down where you don't. So I think the goal is to still be a maximalist when it comes to eyes, lips, or any trend that you want to bring in or something that you want to see. But skin should look like you just left the spa or just have sex.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, Love it. Always on trend. So most people's greatest stumbling block with foundation, it's just still about choosing the right shade. I mean, myself, I've been doing. I've been a beauty editor for 20 years. I'm still going to Sephora to be like, okay, guys, like, what shade am I in this brand? Do you know what I mean? So, you know, what are your tips and tricks to finding that right shade for the regular, average person at home?

[Sir John]

Well, the thing is, you should think about is you should have an arsenal of complexion. So when I say an arsenal of complexion, there's so many technological advances in color and foundation and skin. So, you know how we always think about, like, masking. I want to multi mask, but you should also multi foundation in terms of textures. You should have something if you're dry. You know, you should have something that's a bit more luminous, something that's possibly more comforting, emollient, something that maybe inhibits shine. So I always like to be really strategic with which ones I put in my bag for which clients. Even though they're all the same color, they all have different lives. You know, in some way, even the undertones may change the texture of the foundation. But I'm not a huge fan of. Of piling it on. So I think that we're. You know, one thing I love about beauty enthusiasts, when I see them on, like, Tik Tok or the Internet or, you know, YouTube, is that, you know, what they're not. The difference between makeup artists and enthusiasts is that you have to do things on a lot of people all the time. And, you know, but some people are able to do something on themselves, and millions of people want to walk the walk. They walk.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

But so what we can see and we have seen is that it could be too much. You know, I think that sometimes I don't want to say it's the blind leading the blind. But at some point, you know, I want it. We want to see application that looks a little bit more evolved.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

You know, like, what's the 2.0 of. Instead of dripping concealer or foundation on my face, how can I. How can I make my complexion just look more desirable or elevate it?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah. And what about. I know that you're kind of like a drugstore king because you worked at L'Oreal Paris for so long. Okay, so how do you find a shade for matching when you're buying drugstore products? Do you have a tip for that?

[Sir John]

You know what I would say that's a really good question. So whenever you're looking at bottles and at these drugstores, you always want to possibly skew the glass bottle in itself, in nature is going to look a little bit lighter than the payoff. So go one deeper than it looks like on your complexion, because you're going to lose some of that in that.

[Jill Dunn]

So you mean when you're swatching it or when you're just visually looking at the bottles?

[Sir John]

Yeah, when you're visibly looking at the bottle, go one deeper than the bottle actually matches, because that glass is going to give you. It's going to dissipate, but it's kind of a skewed thing visually. Something else, I would say. And since they are a reasonable price, I think it's okay to invest in two. I think it's okay to actually. I mean, listen, some of these foundations are like the price of a burger.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

You know, so you can have a double cheeseburger, and you can have two foundations that you can use to highlight and sculpt.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. That's a great point.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. And I think that's. That's even the case. And I mean, you're a professional. You have access to every foundation brand in the world. But like, you're saying you're still mixing and matching textures and shades for the client. Because we're not all like one hue, you know, so true.

[Sir John]

You know what, to your point. That's a really good point, is the fact that it doesn't matter where you're from. If you're from Harlem or Hong Kong, no one is one color everywhere. Yeah. So we all have, like, small nuances. You know, we always pick up a bit more sun around our hairline, the way we just naturally. And then we're a bit lighter in the center of our face. So maybe we're having. We need some structure under the cheeks or under the jawline. So it's really Good to invest in a couple. Yeah. Only my mother used to always say, only a broke mouse has one hole.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

So basically get a couple foundations because you need them, you know, and also I always like to say that you, whatever you use as a winter foundation can be your highlight in the summer.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Sir John]

Summer foundation can bronze you up when it's cooler outside as we start to lose some of our tan.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. And of course, the transitional months are good for. To blend them even. That's what I find myself doing. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if that's right.

[Sir John]

It is.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Sir John]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And then what do you think? I'm curious because you've been doing this for so long. These, all of these, like anti foundation foundations, these tints, these like waters, all oil serums, stuff like that. What do you make of these where they're doing everything but saying they're a foundation?

[Sir John]

That's a really good point. You know, so we think about like CC creams, BB creams.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

You know, back in the day. I want to say back in the day. Well, yeah, I've been doing makeup since 2001. 2000. And so like it was just tenant moisturizer. And then we went right into coverage.

[Jill Dunn]

Right, right.

[Sir John]

But I think now it's. There are other ways or entry points and how can we protect ourselves from the sun? So I know that CC is more or less a sun veil, more so than a foundation.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Sir John]

So a lot of these are different solutions for different things. But nothing's going to take the place of a foundation except possibly concealer. Like I always pack concealers. Like for example, I like the radiant creamy concealer by NARS or you know, the soft matte concealer by Mac Cosmetics. And then I'll just pack a few of those guys or those bad boys in a bag and I'll use them as foundation and just share them out.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right, yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I've been doing that lately too, especially with those sheer. Because I love the look of like a skin tint, but then I need more coverage. So then I'll just fill in the blanks with concealer.

[Sir John]

Well, let me ask you this. So how do you. In terms of application process? What's your. What's your application process?

[Carlene Higgins]

I have tried it both ways, actually. I prefer to do the concealer on top. So I do one basic layer all over with like a skin tint and then I see where the redness is still poking out and I kind of.

[Sir John]

Like dial it up a bit more.

[Podcast Announcer]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

I just Kind of attack those areas.

[Sir John]

And so are you using, like, a damp egg sponge or beauty blender, or is it a brush?

[Carlene Higgins]

I usually use a damp. Like a beauty blender, but lately I started using a brush with my concealer because I got one with the Haus Labs concealer.

[Sir John]

Oh, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

And it's a really good, angled, fluffy brush. And I really noticed a difference when I apply it with that. That it. It, like, blends in really well.

[Sir John]

A bit more seamless.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sir John]

You know, I always find. So I like to use an egg sponge, and I find that whenever your skin is slightly damp from your moisturizer, it's the best time to apply your foundation. So, like, when your foundation. I'm sorry, when your moisturizer drying. Yeah, it started. It just goes in so organically, and it actually looks like it's airbrushed on when you're finished, and you use a lot less. So. But I do believe what you believe in terms of if we need more, give yourself a little bit more. Yeah, but we want to see a freckle. We want to see skin. We want to actually see some of that dermis, you know?

[Carlene Higgins]

So how many seconds do we have to get our foundation on after our moisturizer? I'm seeing a headline.

[Sir John]

Okay, okay. Okay. I think, you know what? It's. I would say you had about. You have about, like, about a good minute. You have a minute. I would give you about 60 seconds before, you know, it doesn't really pass it. It's like American Ninja Warrior or something like that.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. Got it.

[Sir John]

You got to be sliding through the house like Michael J. Fox.

[Jill Dunn]

I love it. I love it. So let's talk a little bit more about skin prep, because I think this is where it, like, can either all go so right or so wrong. So, like, what are your steps for skin prep? And maybe you can talk about, like, if you're like, someone's coming in, they're dry as the Sahara, what you're going to do versus myself, which is like, everything slides off. So talk to me.

[Sir John]

You know what? So two different things. I also look at the time of year, also look at where we're traveling to. So I'm leaving here. Canada.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

And I'm going to Lagos on Thursday. So traveling like that, you want to pack your skincare accordingly. And so how can I make sure that some of my skincare is going to really affect the makeup? If you have really dry skin, I think the good is the perfect time of year, actually, to use your alpha hydroxy, your beta Hydroxy. We couldn't peel in the summer. It would be too aggressive. It would make you sun sensitive.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

But now's the time. So when you do that and you're increasing your cell turnover that way, your foundation is going to adhere a lot longer. And speaking of cell turnover, you know, in dry skin or oily skin, use kale. Kale has 600. I mean, a juice. Kale.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sir John]

650% of vitamin K. So it speeds up sluggish circulation. If you look in the mirror and you see dark circles, all that is often is sluggish circulation. Beets. Beets are great because it detoxifies the blood.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

So more blood flow, more oxygen to the blood, you're going to have a healthier, beautiful complexion. It's going to look. It's going to emit radiance and then beta carotene, as you know. So things that have nothing to do with makeup impact your overall regime as a whole. And then a foundation helps.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

So I love that.

[Carlene Higgins]

By the way, you can get beet powder. My daughter's super into not juicing, but smoothies now. And so she goes and gets her protein powder and now she gets powdered beet powder.

[Sir John]

Absolutely. And throw that into a smoothie. Matcha into a smoothie. Chaga is really great for the complexion, anti aging in terms of the mycelium category as well.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. Now if someone is like, okay, I'm gonna get my beet powder, but, like, I need to know what serum and then what moisturizer to go on. What. What are your favorites? Okay. That's what everyone wants to know.

[Sir John]

So. So that was the recipe for someone who was drier.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

Right?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

So if you have oily skin. I sometimes use a serum in the. In the summertime only.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Sir John]

And skip moisturizer.

[Jill Dunn]

Any favorites?

[Sir John]

Yeah. So I love. Dr. Barbara Sturm has. This is for everybody. It's. She has lifting serum.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sir John]

And so it snatches you like, it's serious. It seems like, you know, like, trust me, it's really good.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sir John]

But I also. That's the last step. So before that, I always try to use a hyaluronic moisturizer. Hyaluronic acid. I think Shani Darden, who's a really amazing facialist in Beverly Hills, she has a place. I know she does Kelly. She does b. Sometimes I actually even gifted her for her birthday these red light masks that are really, really serious. But she has a really amazing sake toner and it kind of combats shine, or at least it keeps The Sebum at bay.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sir John]

For people who have oilier skin.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

So it depends on the skin type. I even love Lancome's. I think it's called Genifique. That's really good.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. I love that.

[Sir John]

Isn't it good?

[Jill Dunn]

I had a jumbo one of that, and I emptied it like it was like 200 milliliters.

[Sir John]

I'm obsessed. How long did it take you to go through that?

[Jill Dunn]

I don't know. Not that long. But I love it.

[Sir John]

It's amazing.

[Jill Dunn]

It's like. And just like your skin looks good. As an oily skin person. It's good.

[Sir John]

It is really good.

[Jill Dunn]

Throwback product.

[Sir John]

Throwback product, totally.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. It's definitely been around for a while.

[Sir John]

Lancome also makes a really great sunscreen that has anti. Like, anti wrinkle, anti age. Listen, we're. I'm becoming more mature nowadays. Right. And so I always talk to people about using spf. It doesn't matter where you're from. And yes, black people need to use spf, guys. Black don't crack, but it sags. Right. So I always tell people, please protect your face from the sun.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

Supergoop has a really great sunscreen as well called Unscreen that I like to use as a makeup primer. Even kind of.

[Jill Dunn]

That's good.

[Sir John]

That's matte. It doesn't. It's not even matte. It's like a soft. I have it in the back. I'll show you guys before I leave.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

I love that. Those are great tips.

[Carlene Higgins]

Now, what about primer? Are you a believer or not a believer? This is a hot debate. Apparently on Tick Tock, it is a hot debate.

[Sir John]

Right. So I. I used to be like, anti another step. Right. Because I wanted to get through the makeup or get my girl out the door or whatever that looks like. But primers are actually really good. Like milk milk makeup primer, red primer is bomb.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

Right. So that's really good. I also love. I even love some sometimes using a mattifying moisturizer to go in to stop so much shine.

[Jill Dunn]

Do you have a favorite there?

[Sir John]

Mattifying? The moisturizer? I would say I was using one by PTR a while ago. That's a throwback too, right?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, big time. Yes. He's coming back, though. Coming back.

[Sir John]

He's coming back. Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay. I'm gonna dig that out.

[Sir John]

I love. I love beauty junkie conversations.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, yeah. That's who. Our audience.

[Jill Dunn]

We are nerding out with you. Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

But I do have to say that I Do struggle with the whole primer foundation combo. Like, which one plays nice with which and which doesn't? Because sometimes they kind of don't play nice together. Right.

[Sir John]

Well, tell me this. Which. Which one have you find. Found that you've had with challenge it. Which one has been challenging for you?

[Carlene Higgins]

Hmm.

[Sir John]

What's the first one that comes to mind when you think of primer?

[Carlene Higgins]

I feel like it's.

[Sir John]

This is a game show, guys.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, right. I was wearing the. I was using the. The milk makeup one for a long time, I think is when I. It is when I try to use probably oilier ones with, like, a water base. I think that's where I'm getting them confused. And it's like I'll use the wrong thing and it just won't spread evenly the same way.

[Sir John]

Okay. Okay. Well, I'm going to give you my number, so if you happen to. I can't jump out of your messing cabinet, but we can. We can text back and forth and I can help you get through that situation.

[Carlene Higgins]

I feel like maybe the part of the answer to that is like, I. I'm a big cherry picker. I definitely go from brand to brand, but I probably should be, like, looking at the labels more closely and, like, maybe using the primer that goes with the foundation instead of. Do you know what I mean?

[Sir John]

I don't think you. I don't. I don't want you to because I don't want you to be. So. I don't want any company to have.

[Jill Dunn]

You in a prescription that I like that usually it's. I think too much skin care is what it is, versus the wrong primer and foundation.

[Sir John]

That's a really good point. What you're on to right now, and I'll tell you why, is because, you know, even when I see people. I had a question yesterday in yesterday's master class. Shout out to Toronto's master class was so dope. A company that good put this beautiful thing on at this amazing theater, and it just was so, so dope. I can't even begin to scribe.

[Jill Dunn]

Love it.

[Sir John]

But I would say that one of the questions was, does my mascara actually comes off often? And it's why does it flake? Or why does it actually start to go underneath my eyes? And I think that your concealer is probably too emollient. So, like, if your. If your skincare is too emollient, if your eye cream is too rich, even though we love rich skincare, you have to find a way to keep some of that emollient nature at bay. So I either say shearing it out a bit more, you know, understanding how to tap it in instead of lathering in, but it doesn't. Lathering on your skincare doesn't do anything more.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

For the skin. It actually might congest your pores.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. 100. I think that that's. It's like that versus the primer not working with a foundation. Because if you're thinking about it from a development point of view, there's no company out there that doesn't want their primer to work with every foundation that's on the market. Basically, that's a material flaw. Yeah. Right. So I don't think that they're trying to make it like a stumbling block. It's just the user error in a way with the skincare and the layers and too many things. Yeah, yeah.

[Sir John]

How many steps?

[Jill Dunn]

Ye me.

[Sir John]

Save me sa.

[Jill Dunn]

Heliocare is one of our show partners this week. It's winter, everyone. It's here, but it's okay. We're going to get through it together. And I'm here with a friendly PSA to remind you that we need to be thinking about skin protection and sun care 365 days a year, no matter what season it is. And that's because UV rays create free radicals that can damage your skin in more ways than just sunburn. But thankfully, antioxidants counteract free radicals and there's a proprietary and powerful extract that's rich in antioxidant properties called fern block PLE technology and it can be found in Heliocare Daily use antioxidant formula. So the clinically proven plant derived supplement is recommended by dermatologists across the country because it works to provide an extra layer of skin defense and helps maintain healthy skin. And these statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. And what I appreciate about Heliocare is that it's a supplement and additional step when I'm using my daily topical spf. So if you want to try Heliocare yourself, you can visit lovely skin.com/hc bb15 and use code hcbb15 at checkout for 15 off your Helio Care purchase. Once again, you can visit lovely skin.com hcbb15 and use code hcb15 at checkout for 15 off your helio care purchase. We'll link to the software in our show notes and on our website. Now back to the show.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay, then we're gonna get into it. What is the right way to apply your foundation. So maybe we could just start with, like, how you apply it. Brushes, fingers, blending sponges. What do you use the most?

[Sir John]

I love egg sponges. I love Beauty Blender. Shout out to Rhianne. Who. Who? You know, the head of Beauty Blender. She's a great friend. But I. I think that whenever you go in and start to stipple on these, you know, foundations or tents, even if you want to use something a bit more sheer, using these age sponges, all of the foundation is not going into the sponge, as we always thought. That's why we dampen it first.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Sir John]

And then you get a chance to give yourself a beautiful veil of complexion and then add more if you need more. If I'm using something as a cream, if I'm using a cream stick or something in a pot, I'll use a brush, and then I'll just buff it into the complexion. So, for example, if I was going to do an editorial, I would use. I would go the novel direction with liquid and a sponge. If I'm going to do a concert or Coachella or something like a Super bowl where I need something to stay anchored and not move. Or a prom or a wedding.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

It would be something with a brush and a stick or some kind of cream.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sir John]

And then also take a. Take a powder and then buffing a powder with a fluffy brush into the skin, too. So I don't bake, guys. I cook.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, right.

[Sir John]

And I don't like to bake because I just don't love that much powder on anyone. If you're 8 or 88, it's aging, and it's not always flattering. Like, beautiful skin, healthy skin has a luster. It's light, reflective, you know, so don't minimize so much of the shine, ladies. You're taking the life away from your complexion.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jill Dunn]

I appreciate that. Do you have an, like, your favorite brush for applying foundation?

[Sir John]

Yeah. So check it out. I was gonna use a brush for foundation. I just happen to have a few here. Let's go through brush 101.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, let me see. Let me see. Oh, my God. Okay. I see art store brushes here, people. And he's got, like. Like seven in his hand.

[Sir John]

Well, I'll tell you. So brushes are my thing. I went to school for art since I was six. Right. And so I love brushes. It makes me feel. Some of the brushes I've had, I have. There may be in there somewhere. I've had since 2000, 2001.

[Jill Dunn]

Incredible.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wow.

[Sir John]

Since my first day at Mac. So if I was going to use a foundation and a liquid or a foundation and a cream, something like this.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

It's like a dome shaped everybody. It's like really, like kind of like denser at the bottom and goes up to being fluffier at the top. Yeah.

[Sir John]

Either one of these guys would be see, do you see? But feel the bristle? And so if you see that there's enough. This. They're not dense, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, they're softer.

[Jill Dunn]

Like fluffier.

[Carlene Higgins]

Fluffier, yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

They're definitely softer than, like, the foundation brush I have at home, which is that denser? Is that a different synthetic or.

[Sir John]

It's different. It. I feel like that was me back in, like, 2005.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

But if you look at, you know, some of the great makeup artists, if you look at Pat, if you look at, you know, Val Garland, Cheryl Tilbury, they've all kind of taught me how to use buffing in foundation. With something like this, it just is softer. You don't see lines you don't see. And it also, you hold a lot more bacteria in a brush that looks like the one you're talking about.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right. The flatter more like paint up. Now we need a picture of those.

[Jill Dunn]

I know we will when we get our cameras back. Absolutely. But thank you for sharing this because I'm always so curious what actual pros are using on their famous faces.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. So let's talk about mistakes to avoid. We get asked these questions all the time. What about patchiness? Like makeup starting to break up and separate throughout the day. What's happening there?

[Sir John]

Okay, first of all, I have to say, I just love this duo. You guys remind me of. Like, like, either, like, I'm trying to feel like. Like, is it like the Romy and Michelle or like sisters? Sisters of Beauty and it's post its.

[Jill Dunn]

How did you know?

[Sir John]

I love it. You guys should take this on the road, seriously. Okay, so patchiness. I would say that patchiness. When we talk about patchiness, are we talking about the complexion? The skin or.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, like the complexion and the skin. I find there are certain areas where. Yeah, well, the product is just starts to break up by the end of the day. That's what I think of when it.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Or like, if you do have, like, parts of your skin that are a little drier, it's like got the clinging going on, and then you feel like you don't have the evenness. That gorgeous buffed in look. It's like clinging, you know, or it.

[Sir John]

Separates the number one ground zero for what you're talking about is the fact that. So I would say you need a glycolic toner or some kind of. Some. Not even a salicylic, a glycolic or alpha hydroxy or beta hydroxy. It can even be a papaya enzyme. So what you need is cell turnover. Because dead skin, you know, dead skin cells, they actually attach themselves to our face. And so this might be a patch of dry skin where everywhere else is able to ingest moisture or hydration in a different way. So a little bit more cell turnover, I would say. But you don't have to be aggressive with it. If you're going to use a manual scrub, use something that is not like natural or almond or anything like that, where you use something synthetic, like a bead that'll roll over the complexion. So, yeah, it's not about the foundation. It goes all the way back to the skincare level.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. I actually find for myself where it's breaking up tends to be, I think where I'm accumulating oil. It's like in the corner crevice of my nose and like on my chin. So would it exfoliation? Same thing.

[Sir John]

Exfoliation. Yes.

[Carlene Higgins]

Exfoliation is always the answer.

[Jill Dunn]

It kind of is. It's weird.

[Sir John]

And it doesn't have to be every day, you know, as we get more. As we become more mature.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes.

[Sir John]

We don't want to strip our skin. We don't want to overdo it. Yeah. A chemical exfoliator would be the name of the game.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. What's your favorite?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

Oh, man. Or retinol. I'm not sure. If you guys are doing retinols at night, this is the time to go back into them since we're not so sensitive. My favorite. Let me see, my favorite. Alpha hydroxy, beta hydroxy. What happened to be Paula's choice. Has a nice one.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

I would also say something like, you guys got me here thinking about my. Thinking about my whole situation.

[Jill Dunn]

Have you ever used biologic recherche? The P50, they call it Jesus in a bottle.

[Sir John]

Oh, okay. Okay. I'm here for that. I'm here for so any of those. And. But keep keeping in mind you want to keep it under about 5%.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Okay.

[Sir John]

You know, because you don't want to burn off your complexion, right? Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. All right.

[Jill Dunn]

I think also the b. The. The peel pads.

[Carlene Higgins]

I talk about the Dr. Dennis. And they're sensitive ones, too. I use the sensitive ones.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Okay. And then this was a hack I saw. I wonder what you think about this. Maybe it's just trial and error. So you're applying your foundation. I haven't tried this. Heard about it. So you apply your foundation with a beauty blender in the areas where your makeup separates, like the inner creases of your nose. You rub it in just with your fingers instead, like you would a moisturizer. Yeah, that makes sense.

[Sir John]

Absolutely. I think that in general, like, after you, you know, after you put on your complexion, always take your hands or your fingers and manipulate your skin, because you know your body heat is going to change the texture. It's going to melt the makeup up in a way that looks a lot more organic. But if you do use your fingers, use your ring fingers. Your index finger is too aggressive.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sir John]

It's gonna pick up too much product. It's gonna age your eyes. So I always use ring fingers. And tap, tap, tap, tap. If you always. If you ever see me working, like, in motion, I'm always tapping, tapping, tapping, tapping.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

I love that. I remember that Pat McGrath talked about how when you leave the house, it's like 20 minutes after you put your makeup on. That's when it looks the best.

[Sir John]

That's what she said.

[Jill Dunn]

I'll take it.

[Sir John]

I'll take it.

[Jill Dunn]

I don't know if that's true, but I think it's like, when it's a bit more like, if you. To point where you're kind of, like, working it in with your fingers and it's, like, all melting together because it's.

[Sir John]

Not sitting on top of the face, you know? And, like, you know, I know that we are in a generation of, like, seemingly perfection or, you know, insta everything, but because we use a lot of powder right now.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

We're in a powdery era.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

But having a complexion that is just a little bit more dialed back, it's easier to maintain throughout the day.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

How do you know? Or prevent if your makeup from oxidizing? I do feel like this is something that's really prevalent, especially if it's a really yellow undertone. That's. For me, anyway. I find, like, sometimes at the end of the day, if it's too yellow, I'm like, a different color at the end of the day. So. Do you have any tips for that?

[Sir John]

That's a really good question. Well, if that's the case, I would try to change your foundation color or undertone. Maybe your undertone is already on the verge of being too olive.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Sir John]

And maybe you need to cancel it out. With something a little warmer, maybe. If you love the foundation, let's find a loose powder that happens. Tends to be. Have a pink undertone.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Sir John]

Huda Beauty has a beautiful loose powder and it's like a pink undertone and it's softening, it's blurring. So just something to cancel out one of those things, you know.

[Jill Dunn]

Would that work even if on all skin tones, like to do a bit of color correction?

[Sir John]

Absolutely. I mean, listen, so many women who are multicultural or like, you know, from either. Like I think about some of the women who are from India or, you know, Pakistan, a lot of black women for the Caribbean. It may have uneven pigmentation around the mouth or underneath. The eyes may be darker. So it in those times, invest in color correctors or try to find a foundation or concealer that can cancel it out because you're going warmer.

[Jill Dunn]

Right. Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And what about the foundations that you always have in your kit? Maybe you could tell us a few that are your favorites right now.

[Sir John]

Okay. A few favorites I have right now. And it always changes, right?

[Carlene Higgins]

It's always going to change. Of course.

[Sir John]

I think one thing about us as a group, you know, is the fact that like, like this is. Are we a band yet? I don't know if we're.

[Carlene Higgins]

We're just gonna be singing in the next episode.

[Sir John]

I would say that, like often I. I do love a liquid pump. So I think recently I've been using. What is it called? Mario's Foundation. Love Mario to death. I've been using this foundation. It's super sheer, it's luminous. But if you have oily skin, this might be. You want to probably go in a novel direction. So I'll go to like Essay Word, Double Wear Light or. Or something like Estee Lauder. Sorry, Double Light even. I like La Mer's Pump as well. I forgot what it's called, but I mean, that's on the higher end of the spectrum. But it's beautiful.

[Jill Dunn]

It's gorgeous.

[Sir John]

And within types, that one I think that's like kind of. It's like a serum. So it's pretty much for everybody. And then NARS is always a good place to fall into.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, I love nars. But then I've to this day haven't found my right color. I feel like it often is too yellow. I don't know.

[Sir John]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

But I love all of their. I love their, their concealers, I love all of that. But the foundations I find to be a bit tricky. Okay, what about some of like the Pat McGrath foundation or Charlotte Tilbury or.

[Sir John]

Yeah, I love Charlotte's Flash Retouch. It's like it has a doe foot applicator. It's like a shinier one. It's not a foundation.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh.

[Sir John]

But it's like a. It's like something you tap onto the sides of your face wherever you want. Like a luminous kind of glow, but it's not chunky, it's not shimmery. And I haven't used Pat's foundation, so I can't say.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I haven't tried it either.

[Jill Dunn]

I've tried it. It's very similar to Armani luminous silk.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Sir John]

In terms of the design she designed.

[Jill Dunn]

Yes. Yeah. It all hangs together when you're like. Oh, yeah. When you see them pump side by side, you're like, that makes sense. I'm going to tell you guys about a foundation I just tried that. I'm like, what the. It's Shiseido. It's called, like glow something. It is so nice. It's like very medium coverage, glowy finish. It'll be like perfect in the winter. Drier skins, but it's amazing. Okay. A bit of a slee hit.

[Carlene Higgins]

Wasn't that a new one in Canada reformulation or something?

[Jill Dunn]

I just tried it and I'm trying to look up the name in real time here.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Jill Dunn]

It's called Revital Essence and it has like a. A white cap on it. And what's the claim of fame? It's like a natural medium. Natural buildable foundation. Really pretty.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Really pretty.

[Sir John]

Does it have any? Because I know that they're famous also for their self refreshing technology.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

And the Synchro skin foundation that came out two years ago.

[Jill Dunn]

That's amazing to. But this one doesn't. This one is, I would say more for drier skin.

[Sir John]

Okay.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Good for the winter.

[Sir John]

Good for the winter. It's comforting.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

My favorite find lately.

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, looks like that's different.

[Sir John]

Okay. Cute.

[Carlene Higgins]

My favorite find lately is the Tom Ford concealer. Just saying.

[Sir John]

Oh, yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

So good.

[Sir John]

So are we. A question for you is, is what's the application? Is it like a stick? Is it a liquid or it.

[Carlene Higgins]

To me, it's like a more modern version of the Clay Depot iconic concealer.

[Sir John]

Yeah. Which costs like a million dollars.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. So. But the Tom Ford's not going to be far behind.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

But yeah, it's like, it's that same kind of a stick. So you can get. You can get really beautiful coverage you want. But I would say it's a little bit more lightweight than the Clay de Peau and Easier to blend.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

What amazing clogging pores. I think a lot of people, when they're shopping for a foundation, you know, they're concerned about that. So does non comedogenic on a label? Does it solve everything? Or are there certain things like. Like that you need to. I mean, what would you recommend?

[Sir John]

So the thing is, like, you can have the non. How do you say that word?

[Carlene Higgins]

Non comedogenic.

[Sir John]

Boom. That part. You can have that on the label. But it's all about the practices. Like going back to, you know, what we were saying earlier, you can do that, but then you'll probably still slather on a lot more primer or something else that may inhibit the oxygen coming to your pores.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sir John]

So I think it's like, how can we shear out some of the layers? What do I need for the day? I'm gonna have also. And what time of day is it? You know? So I think that's kind of key. I'm not sure if.

[Carlene Higgins]

No, that makes sense. I actually remember, not that this had to do with that, but we were speaking about Pat McGrath and I remember interviewing her in New York also in someone's home, now that I think about it, and talking about the look she did at a show and how she used a piece Kleenex, like tissue. I don't know if when you worked with her, she did this and she like put it on the model's face and sort of to kind of like tap on and just take off that extra little bit of too muchness.

[Sir John]

So, Sam. Fine. I'm not sure you guys know in love. So I was his assistant for a long time as well. And what he does. So when you go in with not so much always liquids, but like cream foundations or stick foundations, they do have a bit of oil, like a mineral oil. And so he would take a tissue or two ply and then just spit. Split the two ply.

[Carlene Higgins]

Oh, yeah.

[Sir John]

And then go in and we would just dab up all of the oil on. I did this yesterday in the class. And so you're left with pigment, pure pigment, pure foundation.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

But when you powder it, it's going to last and lock for hours on hours.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah. Interesting. That's a lip trick too.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

When you do that on the lips to just to lift the oil, make it longer lasting. Okay. Getting all the tips and acts.

[Jill Dunn]

The best tip is the Starbucks napkins. You guys know that?

[Sir John]

No, the best tip, guys, let's hear it. Is are cigarette rolling or joint rolling papers.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, they're cheaper.

[Sir John]

They're like a dollar instead of 17. And they. I live in California, guys, and we like herbal refreshments. So I have a lot around the house.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I bet it makes sense, actually.

[Jill Dunn]

Because they're so, like tissue thin. Yeah. And then they're smaller, too.

[Sir John]

They're smaller, too. And the thing is, you know, even when you're like, a lot of people I know have oily eyelids, so even if you lifting. Lift the oil off of your lids with shadow on, it kind of resets. That's the eye.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

You don't have to put more shadow on. You don't have to do anything else. So. Yeah, that's kind of a hack.

[Carlene Higgins]

Genius.

[Jill Dunn]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

Love it. What's the 101 on setting powders? Because I think that can happen where it can look dry and cakey. So what are your best tips for.

[Sir John]

That 101 about setting powders? So back to the our. You know, the tagline, we don't bake, we cook.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sir John]

And I feel like baking is, you know, it's okay for. For stage, it's okay for, like, tv, but for our daily life, I don't use a sponge to press in powder. Some people like more coverage that way. I always dust it on. And so when I say dusting on powder, I'm going to show you guys a brush. So all you guys at home, this brush, it's like 2 inches long, the hair, and it's so soft. So this is what I would use to set the T zone.

[Carlene Higgins]

It's like a little bunny foot.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah, totally, totally.

[Sir John]

And so that is not going to allow me to inundate the complexion with too much product. And it's just really good in a pinch.

[Jill Dunn]

What's the powder that you like?

[Sir John]

Powder. I'm loving. I'm loving the Huda Beauty Powder right now. It's. It's called a baking powder, but the way we would use it, we're just using it in such a sheer amount. You would love it for what you were telling me about with the color correction situation. Also, Makeup Forever has HD loose powder, which is crazy good. It's so good because it works on everyone's complexion and never flashes back. Do you remember that era?

[Jill Dunn]

Oh, my God. I was just about. Just about to talk to you about that. The Nicole Kidman of it all. I remember it was burned in my brain. I was like, she needs to fire whoever was.

[Sir John]

A lot of us got fired. Guys. No, but not even one person. It was an era of the technology. Right. We all. All of us Every, any big makeup artist at the time wanted to buy one because it was, it was a remedy. We thought it was like God's gift.

[Jill Dunn]

Right.

[Sir John]

And so we all were in a space where probably got released from a client or two because of the flashback, using it as sheer as you needed to use it. But you still had this massive flashback. I mean, now they have. So they've changed all the formulas, but no, now, like, shame on them, man.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah. Now they, they've.

[Carlene Higgins]

They weren't testing it under red carpet. That was their problem.

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Carlene Higgins]

Okay. Well, I want to ask about this whole era of people doing. I think Jackie Aina, sort of, she was the first one to tell us about it when she was on our show. But this idea of applying, applying your base almost in reverse. She does the powder first and then she does foundation.

[Sir John]

Okay.

[Carlene Higgins]

And now on Tik Tok, there are multiple people who are. And I'm not saying Tik Tok is the bible, but they do like powder, then setting, spray, then they're going to do a primer and then they're going to do the foundation.

[Jill Dunn]

Bizarre.

[Sir John]

The concern I have, it's not even an issue, it's. The concern I have is like, okay, two things come up for me when I see something like this.

[Carlene Higgins]

Right.

[Sir John]

A lot of this is for clickbait. Right. And it's how can I create interesting content that's going to get more views, going to get some followers, going to have people talking. I'm not saying that Jackie's doing it because I know her really well and I know she does a really great face. Yeah. She does a good beat. Right.

[Carlene Higgins]

That's what she's doing.

[Sir John]

But from a dermatologist standpoint, even though I'm not a derm, but I do roll with a lot of great derms. Shout out to Dr. Denise, Dr. Shitterini in New York. Know that you are setting your pores up for disaster. I'm like, do you love your pores? Do you love your skin?

[Jill Dunn]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

Because you think about when you put a powder on top of your skin and then you put a liquid setting spray on top of it, it's going to push whatever that is directly into the pore. It's going to lock that into the pore and then we're putting something that was meant to be a surf, like almost like a veil of skin care esque product which is a foundation on top of it all. And it's going to emulsify in a really weird way.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah.

[Sir John]

So once that starts to oxidize, it's gonna. It's gonna bring out a lot more texture.

[Carlene Higgins]

Yeah, I hear you.

[Sir John]

I think it's a fail.

[Jill Dunn]

Thank you so much. I learned so much.

[Sir John]

This is good.

[Carlene Higgins]

Thank you, thank you.

[Sir John]

Thank you guys.

[Podcast Announcer]

Thanks for listening. You can find details on every product mentioned in today's episode, along with our exclusive promo codes on our [e-mail] While.

[Jill Dunn]

You'Re there, be sure to sign up for our newsletter. Every episode episode will be delivered directly to your inbox so you won't miss.

[Carlene Higgins]

A single thing and get social with us.

[Podcast Announcer]

Let us know what you think of the episode. You can follow us on Instagram at Breaking Beauty Podcast and did you know.

[Jill Dunn]

We also have a private Facebook group? Just search Breaking Beauty Podcast chat room.

[Podcast Announcer]

You can even leave us a voicemail at any time with questions or feedback at 1-844-227-0302.

[Jill Dunn]

And don't forget to subscribe to us wherever you get your podcast fix. Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts and Apple Podcasts where you can show us some love by writing a review.

[Podcast Announcer]

See you next Wednesday.

[Jill Dunn]

Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.